Help with North African/MENA/Central Asia/South Asia admixture

[Chaos One]

Ok, long time to do this post here, but maybe I can get some advice.

I've 10% North African mix genetically speaking; the problem is how it fits with my genealog and other things.

I'm 70% Italian (being 20% North Italian from mother side and 25% North Italian from father side + 25% South Italian from mother side) plus 5% from a Slovenian side. Well, those infos are easy to work on, so anything "Italian" that appears from my side, that's ok.

The problem is those last 25%. While it's brazilian by itself, I got some different results from anywhere, like :

- 10% North African at MyHeritage and some Gedmatch calculators,
- 4% Central Asian at FTDNA, which turns into 4% South Asian at MyHeritage and some calculators.

While I have some SSA and Amerindian by logical means (Colonial background), I really don't know if I have in fact some Berber background (since it's hard to find North Italians or Portuguese/Spanish people - except Canarians) with 10% North African; as I know, one part of my family came from Lebanon, but seems they aren't Lebanese at all and maybe they are in fact from anywhere with a small Central Asia/South Asia admixture.

Besides that, most calculators give me a little to none Arabic mixture (not talking about East Med or West Asia in fact - anyway, they could appear at some amount because my South Italian mix), therefore everything turn into a mess. So, no clue about anything.

TLDR: Genetic mess from grandfather side.

[Chaos One]

Half-Bump

---

It seems I got it. Although some people say using the one-to-one without the default numbers isn't fair, I think using it to compare different groups in terms of comparison can be acceptable since I'm not trying to find a cousin or related person.

Anyway, using some info, I got this:

- Random Tatars:

Largest segment = 3.8 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 20.3 cM
6 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.0 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 7.4 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.2 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 6.3 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.0 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 17.7 cM
4 matching segments

I put just some, but at least 50% of the time I use a Tatar to compare, at least something appears. I know using 3cM isn't fair at all, but using the same method I couldn't find anything like that with South Asians, most MENA and Central Asians. Tried the same with Chuvash and Bashkirs, no results. Most of them get just 0 or 1, sometimes a lonely 2 or 3.

But here comes another problem. I tried with some Kavkaz groups, and...

- Abkhazians

Largest segment = 4.8 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 18.8 cM
5 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.2 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 16.6 cM
4 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.5 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 18.4 cM
5 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.4 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 6.5 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.7 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 7.2 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.1 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 12.7 cM
3 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.4 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 8.9 cM
2 matching segments


Ok. I tried with Armenians too (since Brazil has a good chunk of them - specially São Paulo) but except one interesting result, most were just 1 or 0.

Now, Georgians:

Largest segment = 3.8 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 13.6 cM
4 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.2 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 14.8 cM
4 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.0 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 10.1 cM
3 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.7 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 16.7 cM
5 matching segments

---

I couldn't find a nice batch of Azeri kits to tryout. maybe it would help also.

So, any thoughts? Results are a bit weird, but I'm taking out 90% of the equation, since I couldn't get those results from South Asia, Central Asia and MENAs.

[Congolese Rice]

idk if it helps but here are some armenian and turkish kit numbers:


M615964 Armenian
A909560 Armenian
M753613 Armenian
M176698 Armenian
M176698 Jewish Armenian
F346264 Turk

caucasus jew kit numbers that i found on zetaboards or something:


M912307 <- Caucasus Jewish (probably Georgian)
M764171 <- Same
M060454 <- Same
M111145 <- Same
F310144 <- Same
M093855 <- Same
M912307 <- Same

a lebanese:

Ethnicity: Lebanese (unknown ethnic/religious group) - M757015

a syrian jew:


Ethinicity: Syrian Jewish guy - Kit number M020638


idk if it helps but it might haha

[Chaos One]

idk if it helps but here are some armenian and turkish kit numbers:


M615964 Armenian
A909560 Armenian
M753613 Armenian
M176698 Armenian
M176698 Jewish Armenian
F346264 Turk

caucasus jew kit numbers that i found on zetaboards or something:


M912307 <- Caucasus Jewish (probably Georgian)
M764171 <- Same
M060454 <- Same
M111145 <- Same
F310144 <- Same
M093855 <- Same
M912307 <- Same

a lebanese:

Ethnicity: Lebanese (unknown ethnic/religious group) - M757015

a syrian jew:


Ethinicity: Syrian Jewish guy - Kit number M020638


idk if it helps but it might haha

Tried most, bus low to none results.

Seems I'm more inclined to be Georgian/Abkhazian or Tatar, albeit both are different. Would be far more plausible to be Georgian since there was an Armenian diaspora to Brazil and wouldn't be weird to imagine some Georgians coming too.

[Congolese Rice]

Tried most, bus low to none results.

Seems I'm more inclined to be Georgian/Abkhazian or Tatar, albeit both are different. Would be far more plausible to be Georgian since there was an Armenian diaspora to Brazil and wouldn't be weird to imagine some Georgians coming too.

could definitely be yeah XD you do have some admix from whta i know atleast haha

[Rgvgjhvv]

Half-Bump

---

It seems I got it. Although some people say using the one-to-one without the default numbers isn't fair, I think using it to compare different groups in terms of comparison can be acceptable since I'm not trying to find a cousin or related person.

Anyway, using some info, I got this:

- Random Tatars:

Largest segment = 3.8 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 20.3 cM
6 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.0 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 7.4 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.2 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 6.3 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.0 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 17.7 cM
4 matching segments

I put just some, but at least 50% of the time I use a Tatar to compare, at least something appears. I know using 3cM isn't fair at all, but using the same method I couldn't find anything like that with South Asians, most MENA and Central Asians. Tried the same with Chuvash and Bashkirs, no results. Most of them get just 0 or 1, sometimes a lonely 2 or 3.

But here comes another problem. I tried with some Kavkaz groups, and...

- Abkhazians

Largest segment = 4.8 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 18.8 cM
5 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.2 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 16.6 cM
4 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.5 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 18.4 cM
5 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.4 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 6.5 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.7 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 7.2 cM
2 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.1 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 12.7 cM
3 matching segments

Largest segment = 5.4 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 8.9 cM
2 matching segments


Ok. I tried with Armenians too (since Brazil has a good chunk of them - specially São Paulo) but except one interesting result, most were just 1 or 0.

Now, Georgians:

Largest segment = 3.8 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 13.6 cM
4 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.2 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 14.8 cM
4 matching segments

Largest segment = 4.0 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 10.1 cM
3 matching segments

Largest segment = 3.7 cM
Total of segments > 3 cM = 16.7 cM
5 matching segments

---

I couldn't find a nice batch of Azeri kits to tryout. maybe it would help also.

So, any thoughts? Results are a bit weird, but I'm taking out 90% of the equation, since I couldn't get those results from South Asia, Central Asia and MENAs.

What is this method of comparison? Care to explain/tell where to do something like this?

[Chaos One]

What is this method of comparison? Care to explain/tell where to do something like this?

Basically you compare your DNA with someone DNA to see "how much it matches". At some point, if it matches it would symbolize somekind of connection, but at 3cM it's near to none.

What I did was to compare my DNA with many other by ethnical groups and see if there's anykind of pattern, starting from a specific point (I've 1% East Asian and 4% South Asian and my family background wouldn't show those DNA traits at all).

[Rgvgjhvv]

Basically you compare your DNA with someone DNA to see "how much it matches". At some point, if it matches it would symbolize somekind of connection, but at 3cM it's near to none.

What I did was to compare my DNA with many other by ethnical groups and see if there's anykind of pattern, starting from a specific point (I've 1% East Asian and 4% South Asian and my family background wouldn't show those DNA traits at all).

Ah I see! That's awesome, and seems like a good idea actually. What online tools are you using to get these done?

[Chaos One]

Ah I see! That's awesome, and seems like a good idea actually. What online tools are you using to get these done?

Just Gedmatch. Try to find a list with some kits and compare them using yours.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Just Gedmatch. Try to find a list with some kits and compare them using yours.

Cheers thanks for that.

[Chaos One]

Last bump.

Well, it's Kavkaz. Can't be Tatar since they are mostly Siberian/Eastern Euro at Eurogenes while I'm 0 on both.

At same time, Georgians/Abkhazians are mostly West Asian + East Med, which I've at some plausibe numbers, including the fact my West Asian is somewhat higher if I compare with all North Italy samples. Probably went up because of that. Plus, their South Asian is on par with my score, making the mix viable. And well, since many Armenians came to São Paulo in the past, isn't impossible to imagine someone from Georgia travelling too. Far more plausibe than being an atypical Russian. I will try some Circassian and Chechen samples too. Who knows.

Edit: Forgot to check Azeris. Still the last step. If someone has Azeri samples, please share it. Still thinking is this is ok, but some Azeris have more South Asian than Georgians and that would fit better (and at least 1% East Asian which I've).

[Rgvgjhvv]

I've tried these cM kind of comparisons and it seems like a strange way to find some ancestry similarities because, for example, I've had matches with Nogais and Finns.

[Chaos One]

I've tried these cM kind of comparisons and it seems like a strange way to find some ancestry similarities because, for example, I've had matches with Nogais and Finns.

At some point you would get it with anyone. The point is how much and how common it is. Like, getting something with just 1 or 2 kits at 3cM doesn't say too much.

[Rgvgjhvv]

At some point you would get it with anyone. The point is how much and how common it is. Like, getting something with just 1 or 2 kits at 3cM doesn't say too much.Those ones I mentioned were at 8cM!

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Chaos One]

Those ones I mentioned were at 8cM!

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

Than it says something. Try to use One-to-many matches and see the results at 8cM. If something weird appear, seems you may have some ancient heritage.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Than it says something. Try to use One-to-many matches and see the results at 8cM. If something weird appear, seems you may have some ancient heritage.I actually found them by going through my one to many matches on GEDMatch. But I've also seen German, Hungarian, Croatian - haha no idea why.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Chaos One]

Finally found it =)

After doing some runs at Genesis using 6cM as pattern (instead of casual 3 like last runs), I tried many Central Asian, South Asian and Iranic groups.

So, I got those results with Tajik samples:

ES3646562
Largest segment = 6.1 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 6.1 cM (0.171 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.6
1 shared segments found for this comparison.

NA4241375
Largest segment = 6.9 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 6.9 cM (0.193 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.5
1 shared segments found for this comparison.

FM8874590
Largest segment = 7.5 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 7.5 cM (0.210 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.4
1 shared segments found for this comparison.

GF8587035
Largest segment = 7.4 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 7.4 cM (0.206 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.5
1 shared segments found for this comparison.

As I thought, I've Central Asian heritage from 6 to 7 generations...and it's not Turkic, it's Tajik. As some people know, beyond 7cM makes it plausible, instead of 3cM or anything like that.

Now I know why I've 3% South Asian.

[Adamastor]

Your North African came through Iberia, you don't have actual North African ancestry.

I've seen tons of Brazilians of recent Iberian or Italian (usually South Italian) ancestry scoring significant quantities of North African.