Why are Assyrians genetically closer to Iranians than they are to Saudis and Bedouins? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

mashail

08-08-2018, 12:22 PM

Because they're west asiatics genetically with significant Levantine admixture. Arabians are genetically natufian-like people who were south-west asiatics genetically. Just because we're Semites that doesn't mean that we have to be genetically close, you know. Arabians cluster far more closer to non-Semitic peoples of Egypt and North Africa.

Arabian gulf is nothing closer to North Africa genetically update your information please genetically arab gulf are similar to north caucasus all of them under J1 DNA!!and arab gulf never mix with North African they are very strict and marry from their own family!!!
culturally and genetically arab gulf is nothing in common with North Africa. actually the levant genetically they score high amount of North African such as Palestine and Jordan and Lebanon but not syria and Iraq.
Arabian peninsula and north caucasus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#Caucasus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#Arabian_peninsula
if any thing connect arabia to north Africa is actually the Arabian tribes that live in north Africa but not native North African.
here levant and North Africa very high admixture:
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#distribution

come to arabia and tell them that they are close to north African they will eat u just like camel meat SubhanAllah.
u know what just educate yourself.
Iraqi arab they are genetically 60-50% Persian since in ancient time they had connectian with Persia and almost 30-40% Arabian and these are modern admixture after islam.

Bosniensis

08-08-2018, 12:26 PM

Question is beyond stupid.....

Arabs DO NOT live outside of Arabia.

Syrians are descendants of Sumerian Culture and Civilization and as such are Logically closer to Persians and Anatolians.

Wadaad

08-08-2018, 12:27 PM

genetically arab gulf are similar to north caucasus all of them under J1 DNA!!a
Arabian peninsula and north caucasus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#Caucasus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#Arabian_peninsula
if any thing connect arabia to north Africa is actually the Arabian tribes that live in north Africa but not native African.
here levant and North Africa very high admixture:
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#distribution

1 or 2 of the Gulf Arab royalty have circassian mothers...but 99.999% of gulfers have nothing to do with the Caucasus, lol

mashail

08-08-2018, 12:28 PM

Question is beyond stupid.....

Arabs DO NOT live outside of Arabia.

Syrians are descendants of Sumerian Culture and Civilization and as such are Logically closer to Persians and Anatolians.

Exactly and even if they live outside arabia they never ever mix they only marry their own cuzins .

mashail

08-08-2018, 12:32 PM

1 or 2 of the Gulf Arab royalty have circassian mothers...but 99.999% of gulfers have nothing to do with the Caucasus, lol

Genetically Arabians are from J1 DNA don't lie on yourself and this DNA reached 100% in north caucasus
and almost 80% in arabia.
PLUS ARAB NEVER MIX FROM OUTSIDE THEY ONLY MERRY FROM THEIR OWN FAMILY U STUPID
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267
educate ur self my slave come to arabia lets see how they will treat you habibi LOL

Wadaad

08-08-2018, 12:36 PM

Genetically Arabians are from J1 DNA don't lie on yourself and this DNA reached 100% in north caucasus
and almost 80% in arabia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267
educate ur self my slave come to arabia lets see how they will treat you habibi LOL

I dont need to go to Arabia...there are Arab refugees now in Berbera and Djibouti habibti...the times changed

"we come from the pristine snowy-white mountains of Caucasus...we are J1 WALLAH "

http://www.geeskaafrika.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/49c3c9150.jpg

mashail

08-08-2018, 12:39 PM

I dont need to go to Arabia...there are Arab refugees now in Berbera and Djibouti habibti...the times changed

"we come from the pristine snowy-white mountains of Caucasus...we are J1 WALLAH "

http://www.geeskaafrika.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/49c3c9150.jpg
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE YOU ARE SO FUNNY THESE ARE NOT ARAB BUT AFRO ARAB THAT LIVE IN YEMEN AND OMAN NONE OF THEM ARE ARAB AND MANY OF THEM HAVE INDIAN MIXTURE
AND ARAB CALL THEM AS SLVAES LOL!!!!
STOP POSTING YOUR AFRICAN UGLY PPL THAT LIVE WITH ARABS THESE PPL IN UR PIC GONNA KISS ARAB USESS AND WASH IT FOR THEM.

here some saudis that are descendants from pure arabic beduin tribes:
1-78876
2-78168
3-78169
4-78167
5-78170
6-78165
7-78166
8-78171
9-78172

Wadaad

08-08-2018, 12:49 PM

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE YOU ARE SO FUNNY THESE ARE NOT ARAB BUT AFRO ARAB THAT LIVE IN YEMEN AND OMAN NONE OF THEM ARE ARAB AND MANY OF THEM HAVE INDIAN MIXTURE
AND ARAB CALL THEM AS SLVAES LOL!!!!
STOP POSTING YOUR AFRICAN UGLY PPL THAT LIVE WITH ARABS THESE PPL IN UR PIC GONNA KISS ARAB USESS AND WASH IT FOR THEM.

here some saudis that are descendants from pure arabic beduin tribes:
1-78876
2-78168
3-78169
4-78167
5-78170
6-78165
7-78166
8-78171
9-78172

Kirkuk:

https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/styles/open_graph/public/multimedia_images_2016/2016-11-mena-iraq-main.jpg?itok=6902ghgb

Muscat, Oman (land of afro-arabs mixed with indians etc...the land of slaves)

https://www.travelshelper.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Muscat-Oman-travel-guide-Travel-S-Helper.jpg

mashail

08-08-2018, 12:53 PM

Kirkuk:

https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/styles/open_graph/public/multimedia_images_2016/2016-11-mena-iraq-main.jpg?itok=6902ghgb

Muscat, Oman (land of afro-arabs mixed with indians etc...the land of slaves)
EW all arabs hate black ppl every black person live in arabia they call them SLAVE/ABEEEEED.

https://www.travelshelper.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Muscat-Oman-travel-guide-Travel-S-Helper.jpg

indeed my hometown is poor but at least i know a lot of this world and im not ignorant since I live in Dubai and studying in private university I am way educated than black slave Somali that live in Canada and dosent know anything about Somalia

Wadaad

08-08-2018, 12:53 PM

mashail

08-08-2018, 12:59 PM

The dravidian mixed Sultan Qaboos...very dark

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Queen+Elizabeth+II+Majesty+Sultan+Qaboos+bin+LgKwX 6mHiQ5l.jpg

is he a slave of this white J1 Caucaus genetic A3rab?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/SaddamSpiderHole.jpg

mashallah, what masters

u stupid omani and Yemeni people are very very tanned but are not black the black ppl is slaves in arabia.
j1 is only dna and has nothing to do with your looking Arabs is caucasian sub race and their skin is from white to very tanned with dark hair and eyes
caucasian is not equail to WHITE BLONDE BLUE EYED its genetics and facial features

lameduck

08-08-2018, 01:12 PM

Arabian gulf is nothing closer to North Africa genetically update your information please genetically arab gulf are similar to north caucasus all of them under J1 DNA!!and arab gulf never mix with North African they are very strict and marry from their own family!!!
culturally and genetically arab gulf is nothing in common with North Africa. actually the levant genetically they score high amount of North African such as Palestine and Jordan and Lebanon but not syria and Iraq.
Arabian peninsula and north caucasus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#Caucasus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267#Arabian_peninsula
if any thing connect arabia to north Africa is actually the Arabian tribes that live in north Africa but not native North African.
here levant and North Africa very high admixture:
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#distribution

come to arabia and tell them that they are close to north African they will eat u just like camel meat SubhanAllah.
u know what just educate yourself.
Iraqi arab they are genetically 60-50% Persian since in ancient time they had connectian with Persia and almost 30-40% Arabian and these are modern admixture after islam.
I have been to arabia most Gulf arabs look like Indians , if not from Head dress it will be difficult even to tell them apart from South Indians. Many Iraqis also look Indian.

mashail

08-08-2018, 01:14 PM

I have been to arabia most Gulf arabs look like Indians , if not from Head dress it will be difficult even to tell them apart from South Indians. Many Iraqis also look Indian.
not true at all
none arab look Indian at all im 24/7 with pure blooded arabs stop trolling they have nothing in common with Indians.LOL
here some saudis that are descendants from pure arabic beduin tribes:
1-78876
2-78168
3-78169
4-78167
5-78170
6-78165
7-78166
8-78171
9-78172
10-78879
11-78880
12-78881
13-78882

İrle

08-08-2018, 01:22 PM

Being Christian whitened their genes a bit.

lameduck

08-08-2018, 01:29 PM

not true at all
none arab look Indian at all im 24/7 with pure blooded arabs stop trolling they have nothing in common with Indians.LOL
here some saudis that are descendants from pure arabic beduin tribes:
1-78876
2-78168
3-78169
4-78167
5-78170
6-78165
7-78166
8-78171
9-78172
10-78879
11-78880
12-78881
13-78882

I was just trying to troll you sis, I know ethnic arabs look different from Indians.

cyberlorian

08-08-2018, 02:42 PM

Being Christian whitened their genes a bit.

LOL

Babak

08-08-2018, 04:48 PM

Shared CHG ancestry. Saudis are more natufian derived.

Babak

08-08-2018, 04:57 PM

StonyArabia

08-08-2018, 05:44 PM

How did you go from being Iraqi arab to kurdish?

She is half Kurd half Arab. Her dad is an Iraqi Kurd her mom is northern Iraqi Arab she said that plenty of times. I don't agree with all she says however

Babak

08-08-2018, 05:49 PM

She is half Kurd half Arab. Her dad is an Iraqi Kurd her mom is northern Iraqi Arab she said that plenty of times. I don't agree with all she says however

Oh, dont remember that

StonyArabia

08-08-2018, 06:50 PM

The closest Semtics to Iranians are Iraqi Arabs, they are on average 50-60% Iranian the rest Bedouin.

I believe Assyrians are still closer to Iranians than Iraqi Arabs. It depends on where the Iraqi Arabs are from.

Aren

08-08-2018, 06:57 PM

I believe Assyrians are still closer to Iranians than Iraqi Arabs. It depends on where the Iraqi Arabs are from.

The difference though is that our similarity with Iranians lies in a pre-Iranic shared heritage(Hurrians, Manneans, Elamites, Sumerians, Gutians etc), whilst Iraqi Arabs truly have an Iranian input probably post-Mongolic era.
Some of the Arabs in the Iraqi Project come out almost as 60% Iranian and the rest Bedouin or Palestinian.

Babak

08-08-2018, 07:04 PM

Also, most kurds dont come out as +Bedouin either.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Hashoeva

08-08-2018, 07:08 PM

Aren

08-08-2018, 11:48 PM

Those non-semitic peoples of egypt and north-africa actually speak the same language group like the arabs called afro-asiatic. So it makes sense that Arabs cluster closely to other afro-asiatic language speakers. Also Assyrians are just heavily mixed people. They are genetically close to Armenians and other non-afro asiatic speaking people. Because genetically Assyrians are more non-semetic than semitic.
But they are not Semitic which is the point.Proto Semitics originated in Northern Levant in a population probably close to modern day Levantine Christians and Samaritan Jews. Assyrians have much more of that kind of Levantine admix than Saudis, who are basically Semitized natives.

Assyrians are closest to other Aramaic speakers such as the Kurdish Jews. Other than them and Armenians we are quite far away from other people around us.

Nazarene

08-09-2018, 02:46 AM

Aren, do you consider the Christians in Mosul who have been speaking arabic for hundreds of years 'christian arabs' or assyrians?

Babak

08-09-2018, 03:03 AM

I believe Assyrians are still closer to Iranians than Iraqi Arabs. It depends on where the Iraqi Arabs are from.Probably due to shared ancestry. Though if were talking about genetic impact, Iraqi arabs are the winner here.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Meerkat

08-09-2018, 03:41 AM

Semitic is more of a language category and has little to do with genetics. A lot of Semitic speaking ethnic groups are more genetically similar to non-Semitic speaking ethnic groups than they are to each other.

StonyArabia

08-09-2018, 06:23 AM

Aren, do you consider the Christians in Mosul who have been speaking arabic for hundreds of years 'christian arabs' or assyrians?

Most of them are Arabized Assyrians in that case. However there some Christian Arab tribes present there like the Taghlib, they never converted to Islam, as to what happened to them, most likely eventually melted away. Some Tayy branches are Christian and they are Christian to this day. However the Arab Christians in Iraq are often of the Orthodox or Protestant religion wise and most are in the deep South often claiming Lakhmid origins. Assyrians are usually Syriac Orthodox, Nestorian or Chaldean Catholics. However most Christians in Mosul are of Assyrian origins, even if quite few of the Muslims are, the only people in Mosul that differ are the Bedouin tribes many whom came directly from the Arabian peninsula because the British brought them there.

Bosniensis

08-09-2018, 07:19 AM

StonyArabia

08-09-2018, 07:29 AM

The only Christian Arabs are Ghassanids if I remember well is that true?

Syrians = Assyrians those are two same people divided by religious discourse just like Copts and Egyptians.

The Lakhmids were Christian but most converted to Islam, the Ghassanids mostly did not convert and only one branch did. The Tayy had Christian and pagan clans, most convert to Islam, but some are Christian to this day. The Nabateans some were Christian but many were pagan. The Banu Kalb were Christian Bedouins but would convert to Islam for political and marriage alliance with the great Umayyads. Some Bedouin Christian tribes are present mostly in Jordan like the Hejazeen, Al-Twal, and the Akasheh they never converted to Islam, but like their Muslim fellows Bedouin pre-Islamic believes exist among them.

Nazarene

08-09-2018, 08:24 AM

Most of them are Arabized Assyrians in that case. However there some Christian Arab tribes present there like the Taghlib, they never converted to Islam, as to what happened to them, most likely eventually melted away. Some Tayy branches are Christian and they are Christian to this day. However the Arab Christians in Iraq are often of the Orthodox or Protestant religion wise and most are in the deep South often claiming Lakhmid origins. Assyrians are usually Syriac Orthodox, Nestorian or Chaldean Catholics. However most Christians in Mosul are of Assyrian origins, even if quite few of the Muslims are, the only people in Mosul that differ are the Bedouin tribes many whom came directly from the Arabian peninsula because the British brought them there.

I've read all about the various Christian Arab tribes, and I'll agree with you that most have dissapeared through conversion to Islam or through other circumstances. However, I havent heard of any bedouin tribes who retain a Christian tradition, definitely sounds interesting. And I haven't seen anyone that has been able to back up any Ghassanid/Lakhmid/Nabatean lineage claims. The genetics of the Maslawi Christians are identical to the Christians in the Nineveh Plains, so yeah I've also come to that conclusion as well.

I've always wanted to know about the bedouins in the Mosul region, if you don't mind I have some questions on the topic. Where were they primarily located? Also, apart from more recent converts to islam, are the majority of the Muslim families in Mosul mainly bedouin or Mesopotamian like the Assyrians?

Aren

08-09-2018, 08:49 AM

Aren, do you consider the Christians in Mosul who have been speaking arabic for hundreds of years 'christian arabs' or assyrians?

Ofc they are Assyrians, they are originally from the Assyrian villages around Mosul. They marry with other Assyrians only. I have several Mosul Assyrians who have married into my extended family, sadly though they often only speak Arabic.
Are you Catholic or Orthodox?

Nazarene

08-09-2018, 09:08 AM

Ofc they are Assyrians, they are originally from the Assyrian villages around Mosul. They marry with other Assyrians only. I have several Mosul Assyrians who have married into my extended family, sadly though they often only speak Arabic.
Are you Catholic or Orthodox?

Yeah, I recently read up on how the Ottomans made Old Mosul the centre of the vilayet and population statistics indicate there were subsequent migrations into the town from the Christian villages in the 1600s.

I'm actually (strictly through a paternal line) from one of the very few protestant families who converted to Presbyterianism (from Syriac Orthodox) through missions in the 1840s. Apart from that, I've got a majority of Syriac Catholic and a fair amount of Syriac Orthodox ancestors and family.

Aren

08-09-2018, 01:44 PM

Yeah, I recently read up on how the Ottomans made Old Mosul the centre of the vilayet and population statistics indicate there were subsequent migrations into the town from the Christian villages in the 1600s.

I'm actually (strictly through a paternal line) from one of the very few protestant families who converted to Presbyterianism (from Syriac Orthodox) through missions in the 1840s. Apart from that, I've got a majority of Syriac Catholic and a fair amount of Syriac Orthodox ancestors and family.

I would presume you would have ancestry mainly from Baghdede and Baretle then, if you have roots in mosul going far back as the 1600s. Probably also from older Assyrian settlements such as Ashur and Tikrit who got destroyed by the Mongols.
Same thing btw happend with Kirkuk when it become an administrative centre during the Ottoman era. Kirkuk back then called Beth Garmai in Syriac had it’s own metropolitan diocese and there were many Assyrian villages around the city of Kirkuk just like with Arbel and Mosul today. Eventually all moved to Kirkuk and were employed by the Ottomans, many of the Kirkuk Assyrians lost their language and spoke only Turkish. They all left Kirkuk though sometime before first world war and settled in villages further North mainly in Ankawa but also Karemlesh, Armota and some other nearby towns.

Aren

08-09-2018, 01:44 PM

double post

Nazarene

08-09-2018, 08:15 PM

I would presume you would have ancestry mainly from Baghdede and Baretle then, if you have roots in mosul going far back as the 1600s. Probably also from older Assyrian settlements such as Ashur and Tikrit who got destroyed by the Mongols.
Same thing btw happend with Kirkuk when it become an administrative centre during the Ottoman era. Kirkuk back then called Beth Garmai in Syriac had it’s own metropolitan diocese and there were many Assyrian villages around the city of Kirkuk just like with Arbel and Mosul today. Eventually all moved to Kirkuk and were employed by the Ottomans, many of the Kirkuk Assyrians lost their language and spoke only Turkish. They all left Kirkuk though sometime before first world war and settled in villages further North mainly in Ankawa but also Karemlesh, Armota and some other nearby towns.

You're right, on gedmatch my dad got cousin matches with various Christian Maslawis first and foremost, but after that they were mainly Syriacs from Merki/Qaraqosh but a few were from Chaldean Catholic villages and members of the Assyrian Church of the East too. I would assume that we would have a quite few from Bashiqa, Bahzani and Bartella if more people got DNA tests done. The older settlements were wiped out completely, so while it could be a factor I'm not sure if they were a significant demographic even if Tikritis migrated to Mosul. Yes you're right, I have a friend who is Kirkuk Assyrian (Chaldean Catholic) and her family speak turcomani, and she identifies as Turkish. In the same way I suppose that a lot of Mosul Assyrians identify as arabs because it's their mother tongue.

Are you from the Nineveh Plains originally?

Aren

08-10-2018, 11:46 AM

You're right, on gedmatch my dad got cousin matches with various Christian Maslawis first and foremost, but after that they were mainly Syriacs from Merki/Qaraqosh but a few were from Chaldean Catholic villages and members of the Assyrian Church of the East too. I would assume that we would have a quite few from Bashiqa, Bahzani and Bartella if more people got DNA tests done. The older settlements were wiped out completely, so while it could be a factor I'm not sure if they were a significant demographic even if Tikritis migrated to Mosul. Yes you're right, I have a friend who is Kirkuk Assyrian (Chaldean Catholic) and her family speak turcomani, and she identifies as Turkish. In the same way I suppose that a lot of Mosul Assyrians identify as arabs because it's their mother tongue.

Are you from the Nineveh Plains originally?
Interesting, didn't know you had got tested to. Mind sharing with me your kit number?
Kirkuk Assyrians also became very very rich due to the Ottomans. They owned a lot of land and were urban dwellers so they saw themself as "better" than other Assyrians who often worked on the land.

I'm from Ankawa, 1/16th from Kirkuk(Chaldean Catholic from Kirkuk) and 1/16th from Karemlesh.

Kamal900

08-10-2018, 11:54 AM

But they are not Semitic which is the point.Proto Semitics originated in Northern Levant in a population probably close to modern day Levantine Christians and Samaritan Jews. Assyrians have much more of that kind of Levantine admix than Saudis, who are basically Semitized natives.

Assyrians are closest to other Aramaic speakers such as the Kurdish Jews. Other than them and Armenians we are quite far away from other people around us.

Natives as in natives of the Arabian peninsula or the Levant? The closest living populations of the ancient natufians are today's Arabians and Egyptians, and Levantines became more shifted towards west asia due to the influx of west asiatic migrants to the region after the ancestors of modern day Arabians left the levant to the peninsula during the early bronze age.

Truthbetold

08-10-2018, 11:58 AM

Because Assyrians are of Indian origins and originally Hindu and Iranians were originally Hindu and part of Akhand Bharat

Its their Indian roots that ties them

All of West Asia + major part of europe = of Hindu Indian origins

#laydownthecurrybro :picard2::picard2:

https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3964/7IuGxP.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4864/R1zP0m.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img921/7879/AfycDI.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/7897/qtkPLv.jpg

Aren

08-10-2018, 12:00 PM

Natives as in natives of the Arabian peninsula or the Levant? The closest living populations of the ancient natufians are today's Arabians and Egyptians, and Levantines became more shifted towards west asia due to the influx of west asiatic migrants to the region after the ancestors of modern day Arabians left the levant to the peninsula during the early bronze age.

Ofc not. The Levant didn't stay Natufian like very long, the later Neolithic samples from Israel and Jordan show a significant increase of Anatolian admix way before proto-Semitic, an input that modern day Saudis lack. Saudis are just native Arabians who got Semitized. Ancient samples from Arabia will probably be even more Basal shifted than the Natufians once we get some.

Kamal900

08-10-2018, 12:10 PM

Ofc not. The Levant didn't stay Natufian like very long, the later Neolithic samples from Israel and Jordan show a significant increase of Anatolian admix way before proto-Semitic, an input that modern day Saudis lack. Saudis are just native Arabians who got Semitized. Ancient samples from Arabia will probably be even more Basal shifted than the Natufians once we get some.

But then why Arabians have such high frequency of J1e which had originated in the Levant. Yes, Natufians clustered very closely with Saudis than to Assyrians or even to today's genetically isolated groups of the Levant like the Christians and the Druze.

Aren

08-10-2018, 12:16 PM

But then why Arabians have such high frequency of J1e which had originated in the Levant. Yes, Natufians clustered very closely with Saudis than to Assyrians or even to today's genetically isolated groups of the Levant like the Christians and the Druze.

And what do Natufians have to do with early Semitics, you do realize they lived thousands of years before proto-Semitic? Also as you casually missed out, the Neolithic samples from the Levant were not close to Saudis. So already during the Neolithic period the southern part of Levant was shifting towards Anatolia.
Saudis do show significant levels of West Asian/Iran_N probably coming from mixing with Levantines and Mesopotamians which is were they got their J1. Considering how highly tribal Arabs are it's no surprise that they are dominated by some few subclades.

cyberlorian

08-10-2018, 01:42 PM

Kamal900

08-10-2018, 03:50 PM

And what do Natufians have to do with early Semitics, you do realize they lived thousands of years before proto-Semitic? Also as you casually missed out, the Neolithic samples from the Levant were not close to Saudis. So already during the Neolithic period the southern part of Levant was shifting towards Anatolia.
Saudis do show significant levels of West Asian/Iran_N probably coming from mixing with Levantines and Mesopotamians which is were they got their J1. Considering how highly tribal Arabs are it's no surprise that they are dominated by some few subclades.

Sounds fair.

rein

08-10-2018, 04:04 PM

Cause they’re not arabs.

rein

08-10-2018, 04:13 PM

not true at all
none arab look Indian at all im 24/7 with pure blooded arabs stop trolling they have nothing in common with Indians.LOL
here some saudis that are descendants from pure arabic beduin tribes:
1-78876
2-78168
3-78169
4-78167
5-78170
6-78165
7-78166
8-78171
9-78172
10-78879
11-78880
12-78881
13-78882

People probably confusing South Asian workers in Arabia for Arabs.

Babak

08-10-2018, 05:04 PM

Though arabs(and other semites) are closer to each other than Iranians being closer to other iranics. It looks like Iranics are less mixed from what it seems.

Nazarene

08-11-2018, 12:00 PM

Interesting, didn't know you had got tested to. Mind sharing with me your kit number?
Kirkuk Assyrians also became very very rich due to the Ottomans. They owned a lot of land and were urban dwellers so they saw themself as "better" than other Assyrians who often worked on the land.

I'm from Ankawa, 1/16th from Kirkuk(Chaldean Catholic from Kirkuk) and 1/16th from Karemlesh.

For sure bro, I sent my Ancestry kit off like two weeks ago. I'll send you my own gedmatch number when I get the results.

Ah, I'm assuming that you mean the original Ankawa Assyrians not all the other Assyrian migrants living there. Is your dialect of sureth called Assyrian Neo-Aramaic? Honestly I really hate how they named the NENA languages.

Aren

08-11-2018, 09:46 PM

For sure bro, I sent my Ancestry kit off like two weeks ago. I'll send you my own gedmatch number when I get the results.

Ah, I'm assuming that you mean the original Ankawa Assyrians not all the other Assyrian migrants living there. Is your dialect of sureth called Assyrian Neo-Aramaic? Honestly I really hate how they named the NENA languages.

Great! You results will be interesting since most Assyrians who have gotten tested belong to the Assyrian Church of the East, ie originally from Hakkari mountains and Urmi.
Yes I'm "original" Ankawaya, with deep roots in Ankawa.

The dialect of Ankawa belongs to the so called Nineveh plains sub-dialect group and is very close to other dialects of other villages around Mosul and Arbel, namely Karemlesh and Baretle.
But I can understand Tiyari and Barwar Assyrians easily, and Assyrians who speak standard Koine or the Urmi dialect are also somewhat easy to understand. It's like Norwegian and Swedish to me.

Nazarene

08-12-2018, 12:22 AM

Great! You results will be interesting since most Assyrians who have gotten tested belong to the Assyrian Church of the East, ie originally from Hakkari mountains and Urmi.
Yes I'm "original" Ankawaya, with deep roots in Ankawa.

The dialect of Ankawa belongs to the so called Nineveh plains sub-dialect group and is very close to other dialects of other villages around Mosul and Arbel, namely Karemlesh and Baretle.
But I can understand Tiyari and Barwar Assyrians easily, and Assyrians who speak standard Koine or the Urmi dialect are also somewhat easy to understand. It's like Norwegian and Swedish to me.

True, I've seen a lot of those on gedmatch, there are also a substantial amount of kits from the Nineveh Plains. But I haven't seen many which clearly indicate relation with the old-school mosul families. Basically my whole family is keen on getting tested, including my uncle in law who is from Tel Isqof. Right, looking at the map right now the similarity with Baretle and Karemlesh seems to make sense. I'm not too familiar with the Athori tribes to be honest, are Tiyari and Barwari Assyrians those near the border with Turkey?

This is a bit OT, but there are a high amount of Aleppo Christians (Syriac Orthodox/Catholic) whose mother tongue is arabic and I'm quite sure a lot of them live in Sweden. Sadly, I've never seen any testing done on any individual from this community. They live so far away from Mesopotamia, do you think that they'd be more closely related with other Levantine Christians like Maronites or the Rum, or with Assyrians.

wvwvw

08-12-2018, 12:44 AM

Are there any Assyrians (=/=Syrians) left in Syria or Iraq :confused:

Aren

08-12-2018, 12:46 AM

True, I've seen a lot of those on gedmatch, there are also a substantial amount of kits from the Nineveh Plains. But I haven't seen many which clearly indicate relation with the old-school mosul families. Basically my whole family is keen on getting tested, including my uncle in law who is from Tel Isqof. Right, looking at the map right now the similarity with Baretle and Karemlesh seems to make sense. I'm not too familiar with the Athori tribes to be honest, are Tiyari and Barwari Assyrians those near the border with Turkey?

This is a bit OT, but there are a high amount of Aleppo Christians (Syriac Orthodox/Catholic) whose mother tongue is arabic and I'm quite sure a lot of them live in Sweden. Sadly, I've never seen any testing done on any individual from this community. They live so far away from Mesopotamia, do you think that they'd be more closely related with other Levantine Christians like Maronites or the Rum, or with Assyrians.

Yes there are a lot of people from NW Iraq who have gotten tested aswell, sadly I only know two or three other from Ankawa and no one from villages east of the Great Zab such as Shaqlawa or Armota/Koy. So I have very few matches on Gedmatch.
Barwar and Tiyari Assyrians lived right next to eachother, with the former on the Iraqi side just north of Amediya and the latter on the Turkish side in the western part of the modern day Hakkari province. These dialects are very close to the "Chaldean" ones on the Nineveh plains.

Depends on who you consider as Aleppo Syriacs, if I'm not misstaken before 1915 there was a small indigenous Syriac Catholic community that was quite well eduacted, there are French sources who claim that the Aleppo Syriacs even before the archeological disvocvery of ancient Mesopotamia proudly presented themselves as descendants of the ancient Assyrians and knew about their history, even though they probably had already switched to Arabic by then.
After 1915 though lots of Syriac Orthodox Assyrians from Tur Abdin(modern day Mardin province) fled to Aleppo. Many of these live in Sweden today, but they identify as Tur Abdin Assyrians/Syriacs.

Western Assyrians from the kits I've seen on Gedmatch are basically indistuingshable from us Eastern Assyrians. The Aleppo Assyrians I have no idea, probably shifted towards Lebanese Christians I presume.
Also out of our four main churches I believe the Syriac Catholic Church is the one which has a significant amount of non-Assyrian followers.

Aren

08-12-2018, 12:52 AM

Are there any Assyrians (=/=Syrians) left in Syria or Iraq :confused:

Syria and Iraq are the two countries that host the overwhelming majority of all Assyrians in the Middle east. That was not the case before 1915, as the majority lived in SE Turkey. Today, Stockholm, Chicago or Sydney have more Assyrians than Turkey and Iran combined.

wvwvw

08-12-2018, 12:58 AM

Syria and Iraq are the two countries that host the overwhelming majority of all Assyrians in the Middle east. That was not the case before 1915, as the majority lived in SE Turkey. Today, Stockholm, Chicago or Sydney have more Assyrians than Turkey and Iran combined.

Can you speak Aramaic? Are you taught the language in Sweden in special schools?

Aren

08-12-2018, 01:00 AM

Can you speak Aramaic? Are you taught the language in Sweden in special schools?

Yes I speak it, as do the majority of all Assyrians. We speak it at home, though I was taught how to read and write in (eastern)Syriac by my mother.

zarzian

08-12-2018, 01:43 AM

Once Sumerian DNA gets analyzed, Assyrians will show the highest affinities to them, out of modern population. Assyrians are a living relic of ancient Mesopotamia.

Nazarene

08-12-2018, 02:06 AM

Yes there are a lot of people from NW Iraq who have gotten tested aswell, sadly I only know two or three other from Ankawa and no one from villages east of the Great Zab such as Shaqlawa or Armota/Koy. So I have very few matches on Gedmatch.
Barwar and Tiyari Assyrians lived right next to eachother, with the former on the Iraqi side just north of Amediya and the latter on the Turkish side in the western part of the modern day Hakkari province. These dialects are very close to the "Chaldean" ones on the Nineveh plains.

Depends on who you consider as Aleppo Syriacs, if I'm not misstaken before 1915 there was a small indigenous Syriac Catholic community that was quite well eduacted, there are French sources who claim that the Aleppo Syriacs even before the archeological disvocvery of ancient Mesopotamia proudly presented themselves as descendants of the ancient Assyrians and knew about their history, even though they probably had already switched to Arabic by then.
After 1915 though lots of Syriac Orthodox Assyrians from Tur Abdin(modern day Mardin province) fled to Aleppo. Many of these live in Sweden today, but they identify as Tur Abdin Assyrians/Syriacs.

Western Assyrians from the kits I've seen on Gedmatch are basically indistuingshable from us Eastern Assyrians. The Aleppo Assyrians I have no idea, probably shifted towards Lebanese Christians I presume.
Also out of our four main churches I believe the Syriac Catholic Church is the one which has a significant amount of non-Assyrian followers.

Right, we have a family friend who in her time married a man who I believe was from Armota and they lived for a while in Koy Sinjaq, apparently Koy has a unique sureth. Do you understand the Chaldean Catholics who live in that NE Iraqi region? I read somewhere that the Tyari migrated further down near maybe Dohuk/Mosul regions for work, after seyfo. But it makes sense that they were quite southern compared to other Hakkari tribes and that's why they could more easily migrate into Iraq.

Yes I'm talking about the original Aleppo Syriacs pre-1915 not those from Tur Abdin espousing Aramean nationalism lmao. It wasn't small at all, but after 1915 it became more irrelevant by the influx of Armenians and other Syriacs who fled from the genoocides. I saw population figures before 1915, and the Christian community was perhaps even bigger than that of Mosul. In the Ottoman period there were very close relations between the Arabic-speaking Assyrians of Aleppo, Mardin and Mosul and inter-marriages were very common. I'm sure you're aware, but Mardin also had Assyrians who spoke North Mesopotamian Arabic (Qeltu) as their mother tongue. They must have also lost their sureth because the Christian villages surrounding the city spoke something similar to Turoyo.

Aren

08-12-2018, 02:40 AM

Right, we have a family friend who in her time married a man who I believe was from Armota and they lived for a while in Koy Sinjaq, apparently Koy has a unique sureth. Do you understand the Chaldean Catholics who live in that NE Iraqi region? I read somewhere that the Tyari migrated further down near maybe Dohuk/Mosul regions for work, after seyfo. But it makes sense that they were quite southern compared to other Hakkari tribes and that's why they could more easily migrate into Iraq.

Yes I'm talking about the original Aleppo Syriacs pre-1915 not those from Tur Abdin espousing Aramean nationalism lmao. It wasn't small at all, but after 1915 it became more irrelevant by the influx of Armenians and other Syriacs who fled from the genoocides. I saw population figures before 1915, and the Christian community was perhaps even bigger than that of Mosul. In the Ottoman period there were very close relations between the Arabic-speaking Assyrians of Aleppo, Mardin and Mosul and inter-marriages were very common. I'm sure you're aware, but Mardin also had Assyrians who spoke North Mesopotamian Arabic (Qeltu) as their mother tongue. They must have also lost their sureth because the Christian villages surrounding the city spoke something similar to Turoyo.
Yeah I’ve heard this bs before about Koynaye speaking a very different dialect which is not true it’s close to other dialects in Northern Iraq especially Ankawa and Shaqlawa.
Many Tiyari and Barwar Assyrians were also forced to leave during the Kurdish revolts during the 70s and 80s. All the Barwar villages along the Turkish border were destroyed. So yeah I presume most who have stayed in Iraq live in Dohuk and maybe Mosul.
All Hakkari Assyrians migrated to Iraq after Seyfo, and then some also settled along the Kabur in Northern Syria. Juliana Jendo is from Northern Syria, originally Tiyari Assyrian.

I don’t know much about the Aleppo Syriacs tbh. Are they like proud Christian Arabs today or do they consider themself as Assyrians? Here in Sweden the Tur Abdin Orthodox community is a bit ”closed” and they are quite ethno-centric and often only speak Syriac and strongly despise muslims. Especially those who came to Sweden directly from Turkey during the Kurdish revolts. Qamishli and other Syrian Assyrians are a bit different in mentality often more liberal.

I’ve seen some people who share with Tur Abdin Assyrians on Gedmatch and they are like intermediate between Lebanese Christians and the Tur Abdin Assyrians. I presumed that they are mixed, but maybe they are Aleppo Syriacs.

dark-mysterio

08-12-2018, 03:19 AM

Once Sumerian DNA gets analyzed, Assyrians will show the highest affinities to them, out of modern population. Assyrians are a living relic of ancient Mesopotamia.

i may get wrong but isn't the chaldeans closer to ancient Mesopotamian ?

zarzian

08-12-2018, 03:29 AM

i may get wrong but isn't the chaldeans closer to ancient Mesopotamian ?

No, modern Chaldeans are just Catholic Assyrians and not related to the ancient Chaldean tribe that conquered Babylon from the levant. The ancient Chaldeans go integrated into Babylonian society and their Chaldean identity disappeared forver.

dark-mysterio

08-12-2018, 03:39 AM

No, modern Chaldeans are just Catholic Assyrians and not related to the ancient Chaldean tribe that conquered Babylon from the levant. The ancient Chaldeans go integrated into Babylonian society and their Chaldean identity disappeared forver.

ok

Nazarene

08-12-2018, 05:41 AM

Yeah I’ve heard this bs before about Koynaye speaking a very different dialect which is not true it’s close to other dialects in Northern Iraq especially Ankawa and Shaqlawa.
Many Tiyari and Barwar Assyrians were also forced to leave during the Kurdish revolts during the 70s and 80s. All the Barwar villages along the Turkish border were destroyed. So yeah I presume most who have stayed in Iraq live in Dohuk and maybe Mosul.
All Hakkari Assyrians migrated to Iraq after Seyfo, and then some also settled along the Kabur in Northern Syria. Juliana Jendo is from Northern Syria, originally Tiyari Assyrian.

I don’t know much about the Aleppo Syriacs tbh. Are they like proud Christian Arabs today or do they consider themself as Assyrians? Here in Sweden the Tur Abdin Orthodox community is a bit ”closed” and they are quite ethno-centric and often only speak Syriac and strongly despise muslims. Especially those who came to Sweden directly from Turkey during the Kurdish revolts. Qamishli and other Syrian Assyrians are a bit different in mentality often more liberal.

I’ve seen some people who share with Tur Abdin Assyrians on Gedmatch and they are like intermediate between Lebanese Christians and the Tur Abdin Assyrians. I presumed that they are mixed, but maybe they are Aleppo Syriacs.

Crazy, no wonder most Assyrian Church of the East members are nationalistic as hell. I've only met a few Athoriyeen as there aren't a lot that live in the capital of New Zealand, and the ones I've met are all protestant. However they are clearly very proud of their roots, not sure which tribes they come from though. Also, I don't know who Juliana Jendo is lmao, I'm culturally arab so I didn't grow up surrounded with that kind of music.

Well, there aren't a lot of Syrians in New Zealand, so we only have like one family friend connection with original Aleppo syriacs. I've been wanting to ask them, and I'm pretty sure they will say something similar to Maslawi and possibly Mardini syriacs, (that they are culturally arab but ethnically indigenous Mesopotamian). However, considering the distance between Aleppo and the Mesopotamian heartland, I would consider their answer and even their genetics to be more Levantine shifted as you said. I know that Aleppo is a levantine hotspot on the AncestryDNA genetic communities, but I don't know how different the Syriac Christians would be from what I would consider a true native of Syria, a Greek Orthodox or Melkite Catholic.

I honestly don't think there were any connections between Tur Abdin Assyrians and Aleppo Assyrians, I believe Urfa is one of the nearest Assyrian settlements to Aleppo. And those Assyrians in Urfa, Vansehir, Kharput, Diyarbakir used to speak Armenian and Turkish not Arabic.

cyberlorian

08-12-2018, 05:39 PM

Are there any Assyrians (=/=Syrians) left in Syria or Iraq :confused:

I really don't know.

Aren

08-12-2018, 06:36 PM

Crazy, no wonder most Assyrian Church of the East members are nationalistic as hell. I've only met a few Athoriyeen as there aren't a lot that live in the capital of New Zealand, and the ones I've met are all protestant. However they are clearly very proud of their roots, not sure which tribes they come from though. Also, I don't know who Juliana Jendo is lmao, I'm culturally arab so I didn't grow up surrounded with that kind of music.

Well, there aren't a lot of Syrians in New Zealand, so we only have like one family friend connection with original Aleppo syriacs. I've been wanting to ask them, and I'm pretty sure they will say something similar to Maslawi and possibly Mardini syriacs, (that they are culturally arab but ethnically indigenous Mesopotamian). However, considering the distance between Aleppo and the Mesopotamian heartland, I would consider their answer and even their genetics to be more Levantine shifted as you said. I know that Aleppo is a levantine hotspot on the AncestryDNA genetic communities, but I don't know how different the Syriac Christians would be from what I would consider a true native of Syria, a Greek Orthodox or Melkite Catholic.

I honestly don't think there were any connections between Tur Abdin Assyrians and Aleppo Assyrians, I believe Urfa is one of the nearest Assyrian settlements to Aleppo. And those Assyrians in Urfa, Vansehir, Kharput, Diyarbakir used to speak Armenian and Turkish not Arabic.

Exactly it's very difficult to know since many migration patterns and historical records are unknown. But the fact that they belong to the Syriac Churches and not the Greek or Maronite church is maybe telling that they are indeed possibly related to other Assyrians and are pred. Mesopotamian in origin.

What does your family say btw? Are you the only one who actually cares enough to call yourself Assyrian?

Btw I have some gedmatch kits of Syrian Christians from Southern Syria belonging to the Greek Orthodox church

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 48.35
2 West_Asian 17.75
3 Red_Sea 15.22
4 West_Med 13.63
5 East_Asian 1.46
6 North_Atlantic 1.36
7 Northeast_African 1.24
8 Baltic 0.69
9 Oceanian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Samaritan 4.32
2 Lebanese_Christian 4.33
3 Palestinian 7.16
4 Lebanese_Druze 7.8
5 Jordanian 9.8
6 Lebanese_Muslim 10.49
7 Syrian 10.74
8 Cyprian 11.86
9 Bedouin 12.99
10 Kurdish_Jewish 13.85
11 Iranian_Jewish 14.53
12 Tunisian_Jewish 14.67
13 Libyan_Jewish 15.19
14 Assyrian 16.91
15 Egyptian 18.07
16 Sephardic_Jewish 18.31
17 Yemenite_Jewish 18.57
18 Algerian_Jewish 19.03
19 Italian_Jewish 19.19
20 Georgian_Jewish 20.43

They are very close to Samaritan Jews and Lebanese Christians although somewhat more SW Asian shifted. I hope some Christian Western Aramaic speakers get tested sometime soon, it would be interesting to see what people from Maaloula score like.

mashail

08-12-2018, 07:14 PM

How did you go from being Iraqi arab to kurdish?
my both parents from Kurdistan but my mother ethnicity is arab from northeast Iraq but my dad is kurd from Kirkuk from as what he said that his tribe descendants from Ali bin hussian to Muhammed till abrabim he said its called ال البيت الساده

Wadaad

08-12-2018, 07:20 PM

my both parents from Kurdistan but my mother ethnicity is arab from northeast Iraq but my dad is kurd from Kirkuk from as what he said the his tribe descendants from Ali bin hussian to Muhammed till abrabim he said its called ال البيت الساده

didnt you have an old account claiming to be Kuwaiti. I bet Im the only one who remembers. didnt expect that huh ;)

and you also posted on anthroscape...you are a troll

mashail

08-12-2018, 07:36 PM

stupid sharmota

mashail

08-12-2018, 07:37 PM

didnt you have an old account claiming to be Kuwaiti. I bet Im the only one who remembers. didnt expect that huh ;)

and you also posted on anthroscape...you are a troll

u r so stupid and obsessed with me I am not Kuwaiti ya sharmota I have nothing to do with Kuwait both my parents are from north Iraq (Kurdistan) live me alone stop bothering me
go fuck ur self ya abeed/slave.
and I am not trolling u r so funny .

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 07:40 PM

u r so stupid and obsessed with me I am not Kuwaiti ya sharmota I have nothing to do with Kuwait both my parents are from north Iraq (Kurdistan) live me alone stop bothering me
go fuck ur self ya abeed/slave.
and I am not trolling u r so funny .

XDDD why all da h8 me frens calm down

and lol, are u really part assyrian? pretty cool xd

mashail

08-12-2018, 07:45 PM

XDDD why all da h8 me frens calm down

and lol, are u really part assyrian? pretty cool xd
yeah my third grandma was half asyysian from my dads side XD!

Wadaad

08-12-2018, 07:45 PM

u r so stupid and obsessed with me I am not Kuwaiti ya sharmota I have nothing to do with Kuwait both my parents are from north Iraq (Kurdistan) live me alone stop bothering me
go fuck ur self ya abeed/slave.
and I am not trolling u r so funny .

Just be careful...there are still some Somali da3ish lurking in the alleys of Mosul and Kirkuk, waiting and lurking for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0FRhdIcOSc

mashail

08-12-2018, 07:47 PM

XDDD why all da h8 me frens calm down

and lol, are u really part assyrian? pretty cool xd

I am fully from north Iraq I guess my dna test will be 100% north Iraqi/west asian.XD

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 07:55 PM

I am fully from north Iraq I guess my dna test will be 100% north Iraqi/west asian.XD

it could be, then again iraq is also fairly admixed so it might not all be west asian, probably a good chunk of arab in there, maybe something else but yeah seems legit.

as ive expected before i am just super mixed lol. almost every part of the caribbean is tbh, never expected to have arab or levantine ancestry though. lebanon seems most plausible considering my location XD

mashail

08-12-2018, 07:56 PM

it could be, then again iraq is also fairly admixed so it might not all be west asian, probably a good chunk of arab in there, maybe something else but yeah seems legit.

as ive expected before i am just super mixed lol. almost every part of the caribbean is tbh, never expected to have arab or levantine ancestry though. lebanon seems most plausible considering my location XD
lol who knows my dna might surprise me I can't wait to do the test tbh XD

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 08:04 PM

lol who knows my dna might surprise me I can't wait to do the test tbh XD

lmao if u get the chance i'd do it immediately, the quicker u do it the faster youll get ur results cuz it takes a damn long time. mine took probably 4-5 weeks to come back with the results so yeah.

and yeah, you never know the middle east is very diverse, especially the levant. the more western levant has strong influences from Egypt, and native levantines. The eastern levant has strong influences from west asia, some parts arabia, and mostly mesopotamia too. southern levant is more arabian influenced, but still mixed with west asian. and yeah, iraq ofc has influences from mesopotamia, west asia, and saudi arabia. it's pretty interesting tbh.

you'll definitely be pretty diverse i can tell you now. nobody is exactly 100% west asian, not even georgians so consider that XD

also look at my test results, my MENA is mixed too. mixed west asian and arab, slightly more arab than west asian though

Eurasia K9:

SW_Asian 10.99%
Early_Neo_F 12.83%
Caucausus_HG 9.95%

^ this is a old test that was on gedmatch, this one was very accurate and it gave me azeri, georgian jew, and probably kurd in my results. no arab though XD

Gedrosia K12:

SW_Asian 5.09%
Balochi 4.00%
Caucasus 8.65%
4.63% Berber

^ this one shows more affinity to west asia

so yeah, my MENA is probably from Lebanon or Syria because both regions are fairly arab/west asian admixed.

anyways yeah, your DNA will probably give a few surprises. as you said your mum was arab? youll definitely score a good chunk of SW asian lol

mashail

08-12-2018, 08:18 PM

lmao if u get the chance i'd do it immediately, the quicker u do it the faster youll get ur results cuz it takes a damn long time. mine took probably 4-5 weeks to come back with the results so yeah.

and yeah, you never know the middle east is very diverse, especially the levant. the more western levant has strong influences from Egypt, and native levantines. The eastern levant has strong influences from west asia, some parts arabia, and mostly mesopotamia too. southern levant is more arabian influenced, but still mixed with west asian. and yeah, iraq ofc has influences from mesopotamia, west asia, and saudi arabia. it's pretty interesting tbh.

you'll definitely be pretty diverse i can tell you now. nobody is exactly 100% west asian, not even georgians so consider that XD

also look at my test results, my MENA is mixed too. mixed west asian and arab, slightly more arab than west asian though

Eurasia K9:

SW_Asian 10.99%
Early_Neo_F 12.83%
Caucausus_HG 9.95%

^ this is a old test that was on gedmatch, this one was very accurate and it gave me azeri, georgian jew, and probably kurd in my results. no arab though XD

Gedrosia K12:

SW_Asian 5.09%
Balochi 4.00%
Caucasus 8.65%
4.63% Berber

^ this one shows more affinity to west asia

so yeah, my MENA is probably from Lebanon or Syria because both regions are fairly arab/west asian admixed.

anyways yeah, your DNA will probably give a few surprises. as you said your mum was arab? youll definitely score a good chunk of SW asian lol

ur arab side might be from levant since they score high SW-asian and west asian don't forget that most the arabs that live in America they are from syria and Lebanon .

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 08:23 PM

ur arab side might be from levant since they score high SW-asian and west asian don't forget that most the arabs that live in America they are from syria and Lebanon .

its probably from the levant yeah, if i truly were a quarter pure bedouin or arab i wouldnt score 9.95% caucasus or 8.65% caucasus, it'd probably be somewhere in the 2-3% range and i would have atleast 23% SW_Asian of sorts.

my MENA side is mixed as fukk XD it's like a weird mixture of berber, west asian (probably iran) and arab.

and yeah, it's probably Lebanese as i checked out the lebanese diaspora and 500k lebanese went to the caribbean, and there are a good amount of lebanese on aruba and curacao aswell as it also said they went to the netherlands antilles, so it would make sense my mena is from there.

only the funny part is, barely anyone says i look levantine XD they just say egyptian or arab so that's probably my SSA influence doing's.

https://identitychef.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/lebanese-diaspora.jpg

mashail

08-12-2018, 08:30 PM

its probably from the levant yeah, if i truly were a quarter pure bedouin or arab i wouldnt score 9.95% caucasus or 8.65% caucasus, it'd probably be somewhere in the 2-3% range and i would have atleast 23% SW_Asian of sorts.

my MENA side is mixed as fukk XD it's like a weird mixture of berber, west asian (probably iran) and arab.

and yeah, it's probably Lebanese as i checked out the lebanese diaspora and 500k lebanese went to the caribbean, and there are a good amount of lebanese on aruba and curacao aswell as it also said they went to the netherlands antilles, so it would make sense my mena is from there.

only the funny part is, barely anyone says i look levantine XD they just say egyptian or arab so that's probably my SSA influence doing's.

https://identitychef.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/lebanese-diaspora.jpg

(i checked out the lebanese diaspora and 500k lebanese went to the caribbean, and there are a good amount of lebanese on aruba and curacao aswell as it also said they went to the netherlands antilles, so it would make sense my mena is from there.)

that makes sense !!!! ur west asian side is obviously Lebanese since they also score 2-4% berber and 30-40% SW-Asian and 45-50% west asian.
here the prove that Lebanese have a good amount of native North African mixture
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#distribution

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 08:44 PM

i checked out the lebanese diaspora and 500k lebanese went to the caribbean, and there are a good amount of lebanese on aruba and curacao aswell as it also said they went to the netherlands antilles, so it would make sense my mena is from there.

that makes sense !!!! ur west asian side is obviously Lebanese since they also score 2-4% berber and 30-40% SW-Asian and 45-50% west asian.
here the prove that Lebanese have a good amount of native North African mixture
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#distribution

Jup true haha XD my SW asian is anywhere from 5-12% and my west asian makes up for the rest of my MENA along with my berber.

and since barely any muslim arabs went to the new world or caribbean it makes alot of sense, we even have a Lebanese restaurant here on Aruba called "Sultan" so yeah XD i saw the owner and immediately i thought he was lebanese, and i bet i was correct because i went through their menu and i saw "Lebanese rice dish" so there we go XD and infront of us at another table there were american lebanese people on vacation smoking hookah probably. they spoke english but looked middle eastern to me, or west asian something like that.

and also check out my gedrosia K3 and K6 oracles. K3 places me closer to arab populations but im not sure if thats accurate XD

K3:

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Yemen @ 6.961379
2 BedouinA @ 16.483727
3 Jordanian @ 21.202770
4 Palestinian @ 22.186718
5 Syrian @ 22.687027
6 Makrani @ 23.260059
7 Yemenite_Jew @ 23.740688
8 Saudi @ 24.097925
9 Lebanese @ 24.929094
10 Brahui @ 26.553122
11 Balochi @ 26.774252
12 Iranian @ 27.331972
13 Kurd_C @ 28.814047
14 Turkish @ 28.826607
15 Tajik_Pomiri @ 30.079639
16 Kurd_SE @ 30.190075
17 Balkar @ 30.339142
18 Pashtun_Afghan @ 30.998453
19 Iraqi_Jew @ 31.145370
20 Kurd_N @ 31.159136
======

Eurasia K6

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese +25% Mota +25% Motala12 @ 1.296267

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 BedouinA + Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iran_ChL @ 0.000000
2 BedouinA + Hadza + Iran_ChL + WHG @ 0.000000
3 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iranian_Mazandarani + Palestinian @ 0.000000
4 Hadza + Iranian_Mazandarani + Palestinian + WHG @ 0.000000
5 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Jordanian + Kurd_F @ 0.422032
6 Hadza + Jordanian + Kurd_F + WHG @ 0.422032
7 Armenia_ChL + BedouinA + Hadza + SHG @ 0.481609
8 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iranian_Shirazi + Palestinian @ 0.488010
9 Hadza + Iranian_Shirazi + Palestinian + WHG @ 0.488010
10 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iran_LN + Jordanian @ 0.575826
11 Hadza + Iran_LN + Jordanian + WHG @ 0.575826
12 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Jordanian + Kurd_C @ 0.598981
13 Hadza + Jordanian + Kurd_C + WHG @ 0.598981
14 Armenia_ChL + BedouinA + Hadza + Motala12 @ 0.673160
15 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iranian_Shirazi + Lebanese @ 0.680161
16 Hadza + Iranian_Shirazi + Lebanese + WHG @ 0.680161
17 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iranian_Mazandarani + Jordanian @ 0.743273
18 Hadza + Iranian_Mazandarani + Jordanian + WHG @ 0.743273
19 Kumyk + Libyan + Masai + SHG @ 0.778317
20 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Kurd_C + Palestinian @ 0.802877

"15 Hadza + Hungarian_KO1 + Iranian_Shirazi + Lebanese @ 0.680161"

"16 Hadza + Iranian_Shirazi + Lebanese + WHG @ 0.680161"

"Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese +25% Mota +25% Motala12 @ 1.296267"

^ its still strange how calculators put me to be 50% middle eastern and 25% european, doesnt make much sense to me tbh, but then again Lebanese people also have a good chunk of european ancestry, so 50% lebanese probably translates to 25% MENA and 25% european.

Africa9 does the same thing, it gives me 50% north african jew, and 25% tuscan and 25% yoruba. its weird XD

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 08:48 PM

^ and if im not mistaken, Lebanese people are 93% Canaanite in DNA right? are canaanites west asiatics? XD

mashail

08-12-2018, 08:53 PM

^ and if im not mistaken, Lebanese people are 93% Canaanite in DNA right? are canaanites west asiatics? XD

yes that is true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia
and here their genetics it is j2 native levantine gene unlike arab which is j1 dna which is native to arabia and north caucasus and Iraqi arabs and some Persians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia#Genetic_studies

Congolese Rice

08-12-2018, 08:58 PM

yes that is true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia
and here their genetics it is j2 native levantine gene unlike arab which is j1 dna which is native to arabia and north caucasus and Iraqi arabs and some Persians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia#Genetic_studies

lol, it would be super cool if i actually were quarter lebanese or 1/3. no wonder i look so ambigious XD i am part of so many cultures, i dont look quite arab, i dont look quite levantine (atleast i think so myself, i dont think i could pass there) i dont look quite berber, and i dont look quite african either its weird XD

whilst everybody been saying i look egyptian and berber and arab i asked a Kabyle berber who's algerian on this forum and he said i didnt really look berber but rather levantine or arab. its weird really

but yeah it'd definitely be cool to be part native levantine of which had nothing to do with arabs, explains my weird phenotype. Like i have MENA influence, but it isnt quite peninsular arab either lol so yeah.

what do you think? you think i'd be able to pass in Lebanon or Jordan as a darker levantine? xD

Nazarene

08-12-2018, 10:48 PM

Exactly it's very difficult to know since many migration patterns and historical records are unknown. But the fact that they belong to the Syriac Churches and not the Greek or Maronite church is maybe telling that they are indeed possibly related to other Assyrians and are pred. Mesopotamian in origin.

What does your family say btw? Are you the only one who actually cares enough to call yourself Assyrian?

Btw I have some gedmatch kits of Syrian Christians from Southern Syria belonging to the Greek Orthodox church

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 48.35
2 West_Asian 17.75
3 Red_Sea 15.22
4 West_Med 13.63
5 East_Asian 1.46
6 North_Atlantic 1.36
7 Northeast_African 1.24
8 Baltic 0.69
9 Oceanian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Samaritan 4.32
2 Lebanese_Christian 4.33
3 Palestinian 7.16
4 Lebanese_Druze 7.8
5 Jordanian 9.8
6 Lebanese_Muslim 10.49
7 Syrian 10.74
8 Cyprian 11.86
9 Bedouin 12.99
10 Kurdish_Jewish 13.85
11 Iranian_Jewish 14.53
12 Tunisian_Jewish 14.67
13 Libyan_Jewish 15.19
14 Assyrian 16.91
15 Egyptian 18.07
16 Sephardic_Jewish 18.31
17 Yemenite_Jewish 18.57
18 Algerian_Jewish 19.03
19 Italian_Jewish 19.19
20 Georgian_Jewish 20.43

They are very close to Samaritan Jews and Lebanese Christians although somewhat more SW Asian shifted. I hope some Christian Western Aramaic speakers get tested sometime soon, it would be interesting to see what people from Maaloula score like.

My family never really cared for ethnic origin it's easier for them to stick with religious denominations, but when I ask, they throw in random groups that lived in Mesopotamia, eg. Babylonians, Sumerians, Arameans, Chaldeans, Assyrians, Arabs. They tend to avoid the Assyrian label as they think it is nearly always linked with being members of the Assyrian Church of the East and they consider them to be too ethno-centric. The Aramean label they might say but not in the same way that Tur Abdin Christians may espouse it, because they mainly take it that they were at one point aramaic-speaking. Chaldean label, they consider to belong to the Christians of the Nineveh Plains (because they speak 'Chaldean' Neo-Aramaic), and Maslawi Christians have always retained a special identity seperate. But ever since I started looking at migrations and DNA, I've managed to convince them that we are most probably migrants from the surrounding villages. To sum it up, they know that they are Mesopotamian in origin but in terms of modern populations they will tell you that they are Maslawi Christians. They are very proud of their town origin, and it is probably the first thing they will identify with.

I've personally struggled in terms of identifying with an ethnic group, I know that ethnically I am definitely an indigenous Mesopotamian like any other member of a syriac church. However linguistically I am mainly 'arab,' and our culture may only differ significantly from muslim maslawis in terms of our retaining of the syriac tradition which is more due to religion. I got really into the aramean theory at one stage because of our Syriac Orthodox root, but then realized it was pretty much a Tur Abdin propaganda case. At the same time, I struggled with getting into assyrian nationalism because of the romanticism that I see in the movement. However, I believe that the assyrians of antiquity are probably the best candidates for the 'indigenous mesopotamian' in me.

I think the remaining Western-Aramaic speakers would be levantine as they are Greek Christians and converts from Greek Christians. However, I definitely agree that their results would be some of the most interesting to explore. From looking roughly at historical records and Church literature, there seems to have been a shift from Syriac to Garshuni in the 1500s and then arabic started dominating texts in the 1800s. Missionaries reported that there were a huge amount of Maronites who continued to speak Western Aramaic till the 16th century and I've read the same for Copts and their barely surviving neo-coptic. I think there was a huge urbanization that occurred in the Middle East during the 1500s and this is what ultimately led to many groups losing their ancient tongues and picking up arabic.

Aren

08-12-2018, 11:18 PM

My family never really cared for ethnic origin it's easier for them to stick with religious denominations, but when I ask, they throw in random groups that lived in Mesopotamia, eg. Babylonians, Sumerians, Arameans, Chaldeans, Assyrians, Arabs. They tend to avoid the Assyrian label as they think it is nearly always linked with being members of the Assyrian Church of the East and they consider them to be too ethno-centric. The Aramean label they might say but not in the same way that Tur Abdin Christians may espouse it, because they mainly take it that they were at one point aramaic-speaking. Chaldean label, they consider to belong to the Christians of the Nineveh Plains (because they speak 'Chaldean' Neo-Aramaic), and Maslawi Christians have always retained a special identity seperate. But ever since I started looking at migrations and DNA, I've managed to convince them that we are most probably migrants from the surrounding villages. To sum it up, they know that they are Mesopotamian in origin but in terms of modern populations they will tell you that they are Maslawi Christians. They are very proud of their town origin, and it is probably the first thing they will identify with.
As I expected. This is so cringy though, I've encountered this many times before from Assyrians from Mosul and Baghdad. I try to trigger them by asking "where is your family originally from? What village?". And they answer somewhat insulted that they've always been from the city and so have all of their ancestors xD
They see themself as so much better than the village people to the point that they no longer identify as being from the same ethnic group, what a shame. This is not the case for the Hakkari Assyrians who take great pride in being from the mountains even though they were forced out of there 100 years ago.

I've personally struggled in terms of identifying with an ethnic group, I know that ethnically I am definitely an indigenous Mesopotamian like any other member of a syriac church. However linguistically I am mainly 'arab,' and our culture may only differ significantly from muslim maslawis in terms of our retaining of the syriac tradition which is more due to religion. I got really into the aramean theory at one stage because of our Syriac Orthodox root, but then realized it was pretty much a Tur Abdin propaganda case. At the same time, I struggled with getting into assyrian nationalism because of the romanticism that I see in the movement. However, I believe that the assyrians of antiquity are probably the best candidates for the 'indigenous mesopotamian' in me.
There's nothing to struggle about. The Church of the East Assyrians have kinda hijacked the Assyrian label and forces anyone who wants to identify with it to be hardcore cringy ethno-centric like many of them are. It's flag waving and living in the past 24/7.
But there's also nothing wrong with having a sense of ethnic belonging and fighting for the survival of our own people, something many Chaldean Catholics and Syriac Orthodox Assyrians are not in any way interested in. It's always the same kind of Stockholm syndrome answers when I ask my relatives why they are so keen on trying to make it work with our muslim neighbours despite the horrendous stuf happening yet today. I mean just a couple weeks ago both the mayors of Alqosh and Tel Kepe were kidnapped by Kurds.

Nazarene

08-13-2018, 12:25 AM

As I expected. This is so cringy though, I've encountered this many times before from Assyrians from Mosul and Baghdad. I try to trigger them by asking "where is your family originally from? What village?". And they answer somewhat insulted that they've always been from the city and so have all of their ancestors xD
They see themself as so much better than the village people to the point that they no longer identify as being from the same ethnic group, what a shame. This is not the case for the Hakkari Assyrians who take great pride in being from the mountains even though they were forced out of there 100 years ago.

There's nothing to struggle about. The Church of the East Assyrians have kinda hijacked the Assyrian label and forces anyone who wants to identify with it to be hardcore cringy ethno-centric like many of them are. It's flag waving and living in the past 24/7.
But there's also nothing wrong with having a sense of ethnic belonging and fighting for the survival of our own people, something many Chaldean Catholics and Syriac Orthodox Assyrians are not in any way interested in. It's always the same kind of Stockholm syndrome answers when I ask my relatives why they are so keen on trying to make it work with our muslim neighbours despite the horrendous stuf happening yet today. I mean just a couple weeks ago both the mayors of Alqosh and Tel Kepe were kidnapped by Kurds.

Yes, I have heard of a lot of Assyrians who migrated to Mosul and Baghdad (20th century) who seem to be ashamed of being from whatever village they are from. I agree that it is super cringey for the original Maslawi Assyrians to be jumping labels all the time, and a good portion of them will try to deny at any cost a village-origin. We may have been a higher class than the others but everyone had to start somewhere before urbanization could occur. I honestly don't blame my fellow Maslawis because when you can't speak Neo-Aramaic and you have been living in Mosul for probably 500 years, you feel nearly no connection to the people outside of Mosul. Not all my family deny being related to the people of the Nineveh Plains and my aunty for instance told me that she considers us one people (ethnic group). However, she was hesitant to associate us with the mountain assyrians/nestorians and to be fair they look quite different to us phenotypically, as we are lighter and more coloured.

Well me and my cousins take the piss out of those Church of the East Assyrians a lot because of their extreme nationalism. Reading about the roots of Assyrian nationalism I found out that many leaders who were Maslawis also supported it. Syriac Orthodox patriarch Barsoum I believe it was, and the man who sparked it off (through archaeological findings) Hormuzd Rassam, was also a Maslawi Christian. You're totally right that they hijacked it and gave all Assyrians a bad name.

I think us Arabized Assyrians might not have as strong of a role and may have to preserve our own sub-group, however I'm definitely for preserving our people. I honestly have given up on the idea of preserving the culture in the homeland (God bless their efforts), muslims can turn on you at any point. I've heard that in Europe from my aunties there is a huge surge of cultural learning amongst Assyrians. On the other hand 'Chaldeans' in the US, seem to be assimilating in huge numbers and are losing their language very quickly. Are you suggesting an autonomous state?

Aren

08-13-2018, 02:01 PM

Yes, I have heard of a lot of Assyrians who migrated to Mosul and Baghdad (20th century) who seem to be ashamed of being from whatever village they are from. I agree that it is super cringey for the original Maslawi Assyrians to be jumping labels all the time, and a good portion of them will try to deny at any cost a village-origin. We may have been a higher class than the others but everyone had to start somewhere before urbanization could occur. I honestly don't blame my fellow Maslawis because when you can't speak Neo-Aramaic and you have been living in Mosul for probably 500 years, you feel nearly no connection to the people outside of Mosul. Not all my family deny being related to the people of the Nineveh Plains and my aunty for instance told me that she considers us one people (ethnic group). However, she was hesitant to associate us with the mountain assyrians/nestorians and to be fair they look quite different to us phenotypically, as we are lighter and more coloured.
I'm sorry but this is so retarded. Just because you are urban dwellers doesn't make you a totally different people. It's very weird, but hey atleast as far as I've seen many Maslawi Assyrians marry frequently with other Assyrians from the villages around. And then they are forced to atleast understand Syriac.

Well me and my cousins take the piss out of those Church of the East Assyrians a lot because of their extreme nationalism. Reading about the roots of Assyrian nationalism I found out that many leaders who were Maslawis also supported it. Syriac Orthodox patriarch Barsoum I believe it was, and the man who sparked it off (through archaeological findings) Hormuzd Rassam, was also a Maslawi Christian. You're totally right that they hijacked it and gave all Assyrians a bad name.
You should be proud that many Maslawi Assyrians participated in the Independence movement. Honestly look at our situation now, most of both my and your ancestors stayed neutral during the first world war and have ever since then worked for Muslims and tried to stabilize the relationship between them and us. And where has that gotten us? We both live in the Western world far away from Upper Mesopotamia, the overwhelming majority of all my close and distant relatives live either in Sweden or Australia. So whether we fought for our independence(like the Hakkari/Urmi Assyrians) or stayed neutral we're all in the same boat now. Atleast the Church of the East Assyrians have a strong sense of ethnic belonging and kept many unqiue cultural traits and don't have this sick Stockholm syndrome mentality towards Muslims like we do. That's atleast something in this day and age. Especially with you Nineveh plains Assyrians, how can you guys still not work for the greater good of our people after witnessing with your own eyes the destrucion by the hand of ISIS/radical Islam? I surely hope you are aware of how many regular Maslawi Arabs supported ISIS.

I think us Arabized Assyrians might not have as strong of a role and may have to preserve our own sub-group, however I'm definitely for preserving our people. I honestly have given up on the idea of preserving the culture in the homeland (God bless their efforts), muslims can turn on you at any point. I've heard that in Europe from my aunties there is a huge surge of cultural learning amongst Assyrians. On the other hand 'Chaldeans' in the US, seem to be assimilating in huge numbers and are losing their language very quickly. Are you suggesting an autonomous state?
I'm suggesting first and foremost an unified front where we focus on preserving our language and culture and work closer together. This seems hard enough with these corrupt churches popping up here and there. I left the Chaldean Catholic church several years ago, it makes me sick. Don't get me wrong I appreciate what Christianity has done for us throughout history, but it's 2018 we shouldn't be identifying by sect.

Nazarene

08-13-2018, 10:56 PM

I'm sorry but this is so retarded. Just because you are urban dwellers doesn't make you a totally different people. It's very weird, but hey atleast as far as I've seen many Maslawi Assyrians marry frequently with other Assyrians from the villages around. And then they are forced to atleast understand Syriac.

You should be proud that many Maslawi Assyrians participated in the Independence movement. Honestly look at our situation now, most of both my and your ancestors stayed neutral during the first world war and have ever since then worked for Muslims and tried to stabilize the relationship between them and us. And where has that gotten us? We both live in the Western world far away from Upper Mesopotamia, the overwhelming majority of all my close and distant relatives live either in Sweden or Australia. So whether we fought for our independence(like the Hakkari/Urmi Assyrians) or stayed neutral we're all in the same boat now. Atleast the Church of the East Assyrians have a strong sense of ethnic belonging and kept many unqiue cultural traits and don't have this sick Stockholm syndrome mentality towards Muslims like we do. That's atleast something in this day and age. Especially with you Nineveh plains Assyrians, how can you guys still not work for the greater good of our people after witnessing with your own eyes the destrucion by the hand of ISIS/radical Islam? I surely hope you are aware of how many regular Maslawi Arabs supported ISIS.

I'm suggesting first and foremost an unified front where we focus on preserving our language and culture and work closer together. This seems hard enough with these corrupt churches popping up here and there. I left the Chaldean Catholic church several years ago, it makes me sick. Don't get me wrong I appreciate what Christianity has done for us throughout history, but it's 2018 we shouldn't be identifying by sect.

Their patriotism for Mosul is the same that one has for Al Qosh or Hakkari, I agree with you that we are not a different people.

I feel your pain, it's tragic that such a large number of Assyrians are now in the diaspora. I always hear that many of the Christians in Ankawa are just waiting for their opportunity to move to the west. They may have stayed neutral, I have even read accounts where the Christians of Mosul and the Nineveh Plains had voted for their inclusion into the Iraqi state, so it definitely was their doing. But even if Simele had not occurred, and the Church of the East Assyrians had won some kind of independence, do you really think that the neighbouring Muslims would not just take it as an excuse to invade and commit genocide on all of them anyways. Look how far the Kurds got in Iraqi Kurdistan and Baghdad will not allow any of it, I doubt we could have survived either way. Also, my family are very aware of the dangers of islam and they do not have any stockholm syndrome when it comes to the atrocities that muslims have carried through. Well I had family in Mosul who were evicted from their homes around the time of ISIS, they surely know how bad radical islam is. And yes, I do not trust the Maslawi Arabs at this stage, they've done too much to harm the Jews, Yazidis and Christians alike.

https://philosproject.org/immigrant-mind-deadly-side-middle-east-christian-sectarianism/
This is a piece from one of the members of our community, she also argues against sectarianism. These churches are completely selfish and they do not care for the well-being of anyone but their dopey leaders. I'm personally non-denominational at this point, but I don't mind attending any syriac church. I'm assuming you're not a Christian anymore but I agree that we band together as one people.