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Loki
08-08-2018, 09:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2yPmZ48t8U

GreentheViper
08-08-2018, 09:14 PM
Appear to me and I'll believe. He's yet to appear

Loki
08-08-2018, 09:19 PM
Appear to me and I'll believe. He's yet to appear

Who do you think you are? That's a bit arrogant, don't you think? He owes you absolutely nothing.

GreentheViper
08-08-2018, 09:21 PM
Who do you think you are? That's a bit arrogant, don't you think? He owes you absolutely nothing.

Why is that arrogant? He's not appeared to me so I can't believe.

Loki
08-08-2018, 09:23 PM
Why is that arrogant? He's not appeared to me so I can't believe.

He's not required to appear to you in order to believe. I think he will especially not appear to arrogant people who have no faith. Faith is God's way for mankind. If you reject his ways, then there is no hope for you. End of story.

You make it sound as if you will benefit Jesus if you believed in him. You won't! You will only benefit yourself. He does not need you, you need him.

Markos
08-08-2018, 09:24 PM
Yikes

GreentheViper
08-08-2018, 09:24 PM
He's not required to appear to you in order to believe. I think he will especially not appear to arrogant people who have no faith. Faith is God's way for mankind. If you reject his ways, then there is no hope for you. End of story.

What if someone is open to belief but hadn't seen enough evidence so suggest that he's real, like myself? That isn't arrogant in any way, simply curiosity.

Loki
08-08-2018, 09:34 PM
What if someone is open to belief but hadn't seen enough evidence so suggest that he's real, like myself? That isn't arrogant in any way, simply curiosity.

Then I would urge you to investigate all there is... there is SO much. I have investigated the Bible and historical evidence, and it made me absolutely certain of the authenticity of Jesus and his claims.

1R0N M4N XL
08-09-2018, 03:28 AM
God will only appear to people who calls his name in good faith & seek him truthfully..

will you response to anybody who you know is just playing a game with you? or joking around?..

I myself will only response to people who are serious.

Armenian Bishop
08-09-2018, 03:55 AM
What if someone is open to belief but hadn't seen enough evidence so suggest that he's real, like myself? That isn't arrogant in any way, simply curiosity.

This suits the discussion well. "Doubting Thomas" taken from KJV of he Gospel of John:

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A24-29&version=KJV;NASB

GreentheViper
08-09-2018, 04:03 AM
This suits the discussion well. "Doubting Thomas" taken from KJV of he Gospel of John:

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20%3A24-29&version=KJV;NASB



This is clearly biased evidence though. Of course the Bible is going to say this because it is the holy text of the religion.

Peterski
08-09-2018, 04:32 AM
Why is that arrogant? He's not appeared to me so I can't believe.

"Believe" by definition applies to unproven stuff.

If something is obvious then you don't "believe in it", but "know it".

I do not believe that 2+2=4, I simply know it.

GreentheViper
08-09-2018, 04:33 AM
"Believe" by definition applies to unproven stuff.

If something is obvious then you don't "believe in it", but "know it".

I do not believe that 2+2=4, I simply know it.

Math is a good tool.

Loki
08-09-2018, 12:25 PM
This is clearly biased evidence though. Of course the Bible is going to say this because it is the holy text of the religion.

But it's the truth, biased or not. And you are the fool choosing not to believe.

Thanas Django
08-09-2018, 12:28 PM
Math is a good tool.

Do you believe numbers exist?

arkas
08-09-2018, 12:34 PM
This going to sound crazy, I once thought I saw Jesus. When I was 10, I moved into an old house that once used to be some kind of medical clinic, my bedroom door had a small window above it. One night, I was laying in bed and thought I could see him looking through the window, I freaked out. After than I became very paranoid that he might be watching me, when the thought would come to my mind, I'd be scared to open my eyes and look at that window. When I did open my eyes I'd stare at the window, to make sure he wasn't there.

GreentheViper
08-09-2018, 07:30 PM
But it's the truth, biased or not. And you are the fool choosing not to believe.

Maybe it is the truth, Loki. And I'll burn in hell for not having faith in it.

GreentheViper
08-09-2018, 07:30 PM
Do you believe numbers exist?

Yeah, math is cool

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 05:52 AM
Yeah, math is cool

can you show me a picture of a few numbers?

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 05:57 AM
can you show me a picture of a few numbers?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=78927&d=1533880585

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 06:24 AM
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=78927&d=1533880585

That's a handmade drawing of numbers.

Can you show me numbers in a real life setting, like floating next to your pet goldfish for example.

Here's a handmade drawing of Jesus

https://www.thegreatcourses.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/0f396e8a55728e79b48334e699243c07/6/4/643---base_image_4.1424268000.jpg

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 06:37 AM
That's a handmade drawing of numbers.

Can you show me numbers in a real life setting, like floating next to your pet goldfish for example.

Here's a handmade drawing of Jesus

https://www.thegreatcourses.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/0f396e8a55728e79b48334e699243c07/6/4/643---base_image_4.1424268000.jpg


I have no clue what you're on about. If you're going to imply that because I can't see numbers floating beside my goldfish but I could see Jesus floating beside my goldfish and thus he's real, we'll have to stop then.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 06:46 AM
I have no clue what you're on about. If you're going to imply that because I can't see numbers floating beside my goldfish but I could see Jesus floating beside my goldfish and thus he's real, we'll have to stop then.

That's a nice strawman you described.

Please show me a photograph of numbers in real life.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 06:51 AM
That's a nice strawman you described.

I literally said, IF you say that.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 06:52 AM
Please show me a photograph of numbers in real life.

I already did.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 07:00 AM
I already did.

With all due respect, that's a drawing, a representation.

I also showed you a drawing of Jesus, but you wouldn't take it as proof of the existence of Jesus.

I don't take your drawing of numbers as proof of their existence.

I want to see them in real life.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 07:05 AM
With all due respect, that's a drawing, a representation.

I also showed you a drawing of Jesus, but you wouldn't take it as proof of the existence of Jesus.

I don't take your drawing of numbers as proof of their existence.

I want to see them in real life.

I see the point that you're trying to make. Numbers are used as classifiers. I have one apple and then a second apple appears and I have two. Numbers aren't real in the sense that you can touch them but you can use the to calculate the amount of objects. Same as language. You can't physically touch language but it's used as a communication tool and is real in that way. Jesus isn't real because there is no reason why he should be, science is always improving on the way in which we can know how our universe, humans and others are created. The Bible could be used as a over exaggerated history book and philosophy book.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 07:19 AM
I see the point that you're trying to make. Numbers are used as classifiers. I have one apple and then a second apple appears and I have two. Numbers aren't real in the sense that you can touch them but you can use the to calculate the amount of objects. Same as language. You can't physically touch language but it's used as a communication tool and is real in that way.


Jesus isn't real because there is no reason why he should be, science is always improving on the way in which we can know how our universe, humans and others are created. The Bible could be used as a over exaggerated history book and philosophy book.

Humans have communicated information to each other using stories for thousands of years.

Before writing was invented, oral storytelling tradition kept communities together and the values of the culture passed on from parent to child.

Many cultures from the Inuit to the European to the Australasian somehow share similar stories to communicate similar values. For example, the story of the flood and the ark or the story of the dragon (and St. George in Christian tradition).

Perhaps, just like numbers are an abstraction we created to measure this world, the stories found in the Bible are an abstraction of how we perceive the world works, of our values and morality.

Whether Jesus existed in real life as depicted in the bible is inconsequential in some levels, because on other levels of truth he is an abstract model of how we should treat life or at least how our ancestors perceived should be the best way to do so.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 07:28 AM
Many cultures from the Inuit to the European to the Australasian somehow share similar stories to communicate similar values. For example, the story of the flood and the ark or the story of the dragon (and St. George in Christian tradition).

Those stories are at best over exaggerated bouts of history. The flood and the ark was most likely on a far smaller scale.




Perhaps, just like numbers are an abstraction we created to measure this world, the stories found in the Bible are an abstraction of how we perceive the world works, of our values and morality.

Whether Jesus existed in real life as depicted in the bible is inconsequential in some levels, because on other levels of truth he is an abstract model of how we should treat life or at least how our ancestors perceived should be the best way to do so.

I agree with your last statement, I try to follow Jesus's teachings because he had wisdom, my contention was that he was not God's son nor do I think there is a God, I could be wrong, but I think there isn't. And that's my contention with Religion in general, I can't believe in supernatural things like God or Angels but I can appriciate the teachings of Jesus, his cultural impact and the faux-historical accounts in the Bible. But he was not the son of God.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 07:36 AM
I agree with your last statement, I try to follow Jesus's teachings because he had wisdom, my contention was that he was not God's son nor do I think there is a God, I could be wrong, but I think there isn't. And that's my contention with Religion in general, I can't believe in supernatural things like God or Angels but I can appriciate the teachings of Jesus, his cultural impact and the faux-historical accounts in the Bible. But he was not the son of God.

and it's not my job to convince you to believe in anything.

However, if you are interested in these topics in general I recommend watching this lecture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtEZvLo-Sc&t=7131s

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 07:41 AM
and it's not my job to convince you to believe in anything.

However, if you are interested in these topics in general I recommend watching this lecture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtEZvLo-Sc&t=7131s


No it's not but was the topic of debate.

Thanks for the lecture and thanks for the debate, it was fun :).

Bosniensis
08-10-2018, 08:09 AM
I know for a strong Demon (Div, Jinn) who if he could be bothered to do so could transport a Truck from Japan to Europe in a 1/3 of a second. Though it would be extremely costly to him nevertheless he could do that.

If he would mimic a Jesus, I wonder how many people would believe he is the one indeed?

People believe that presented trick, power means God, Jesus etc... What if it's an Anti-Christ, or Devil?

Belief can't be supported by external presentation like power and people should be warned against that kind of belief.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 08:46 AM
I know for a strong Demon (Div, Jinn) who if he could be bothered to do so could transport a Truck from Japan to Europe in a 1/3 of a second. Though it would be extremely costly to him nevertheless he could do that.

If he would mimic a Jesus, I wonder how many people would believe he is the one indeed?

People believe that presented trick, power means God, Jesus etc... What if it's an Anti-Christ, or Devil?

Belief can't be supported by external presentation like power and people should be warned against that kind of belief.

The army of Mara is upon you.

Bosniensis
08-10-2018, 08:47 AM
The army of Mara is upon you.

What is that? xD

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 08:51 AM
What is that? xD


http://youtu.be/nsN7NLs-0jI?t=614

Watch from 10:14 to find out.

Bosniensis
08-10-2018, 09:03 AM
http://youtu.be/nsN7NLs-0jI?t=614

Watch from 10:14 to find out.

I did not know you are a Buddhist. xD

Buddhist spirituality is a spirituality of a Maras themselves.

My guardian is archangel Gabriel and Michael, the overseers, who are the instruments of God's will.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 09:40 AM
I did not know you are a Buddhist. xD

Buddhist spirituality is a spirituality of a Maras themselves.

My guardian is archangel Gabriel and Michael, the overseers, who are the instruments of God's will.

I invite you to read your own post, so at to explore your own inefficiencies.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:15 PM
This going to sound crazy, I once thought I saw Jesus. When I was 10, I moved into an old house that once used to be some kind of medical clinic, my bedroom door had a small window above it. One night, I was laying in bed and thought I could see him looking through the window, I freaked out. After than I became very paranoid that he might be watching me, when the thought would come to my mind, I'd be scared to open my eyes and look at that window. When I did open my eyes I'd stare at the window, to make sure he wasn't there.

I want to tell you something... the "Catholic Jesus", which is spooky and ghost-like, is not the real Jesus! It is demonic. The real Jesus will never freak you out or scare you.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:15 PM
Maybe it is the truth, Loki. And I'll burn in hell for not having faith in it.

It's your decision, ultimately. Free will. :)

arkas
08-10-2018, 01:17 PM
I want to tell you something... the "Catholic Jesus", which is spooky and ghost-like, is not the real Jesus! It is demonic. The real Jesus will never freak you out or scare you.

What about the Eastern Orthodox Jesus, is he scary?

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:18 PM
Jesus isn't real because there is no reason why he should be,

What the..??? OF COURSE Jesus is REAL. And he is ALIVE. This is a FACT.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:20 PM
Whether Jesus existed in real life as depicted in the bible is inconsequential in some levels, because on other levels of truth he is an abstract model of how we should treat life or at least how our ancestors perceived should be the best way to do so.

Uhm.. NO. Jesus DID exist in real life as told in the Bible. What are you on about? It's a fact of history. And he still exists.

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 01:23 PM
Uhm.. NO. Jesus DID exist in real life as told in the Bible. What are you on about? It's a fact of history. And he still exists.

I am not questioning his existence then and now.

I am just saying that even at the lowest level of faith, Jesus and his story remain relevant.

Which thegreenviper admitted himself.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:23 PM
I know for a strong Demon (Div, Jinn) who if he could be bothered to do so could transport a Truck from Japan to Europe in a 1/3 of a second. Though it would be extremely costly to him nevertheless he could do that.

If he would mimic a Jesus, I wonder how many people would believe he is the one indeed?

People believe that presented trick, power means God, Jesus etc... What if it's an Anti-Christ, or Devil?

Belief can't be supported by external presentation like power and people should be warned against that kind of belief.

Aha! You see, if you are a Christian, and have the Holy Spirit in you... you will immediately know if it is the real Jesus, or an impostor. And that is one of the reasons why it is vitally important to have and maintain a relationship with God. Because many things are going to happen in the future... and many people will be deceived.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 01:24 PM
What the..??? OF COURSE Jesus is REAL. And he is ALIVE. This is a FACT.

Mate his convo ended like 5 hours ago, who cares?

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:25 PM
I am not questioning his existence then and now.

I am just saying that even at the lowest level of faith, Jesus and his story remain relevant.

Which thegreenviper admitted himself.

Sure, I see. But just as an example doesn't help anyone. Jesus didn't come here to be an example. He came to be the saviour of mankind... to prevent you from going to hell, to get into right standing with God. He came to save us.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:26 PM
Mate his convo ended like 5 hours ago, who cares?

Why do YOU care then to reply to my post? Why do you care enough in the first place to reply to this thread with your unbelief?

Thanas Django
08-10-2018, 01:28 PM
Sure, I see. But just as an example doesn't help anyone. Jesus didn't come here to be an example. He came to be the saviour of mankind... to prevent you from going to hell, to get into right standing with God. He came to save us.

Yes, but to grow wheat we sow fields with seeds, we don't force whole plants into the earth.

Let me know if you can understand what I mean.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:31 PM
Yes, but to grow wheat we sow fields with seeds, we don't force whole plants into the earth.

Let me know if you can understand what I mean.

Yes I understand.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 01:34 PM
Why do YOU care then to reply to my post? Why do you care enough in the first place to reply to this thread with your unbelief?

Alright calm down, I'm not an atheist I'm agnostic. Jesus was real, but he wasn't the son of God. He was a man who preached an unholy religion to the Roman who then killed him, but he wasn't resurrected, as that wouldn't make sense on any grounds of reality unless he took some sort of drug who stop his heart and then restart it later.

Loki
08-10-2018, 01:42 PM
Alright calm down, I'm not an atheist I'm agnostic. Jesus was real, but he wasn't the son of God. He was a man who preached an unholy religion to the Roman who then killed him, but he wasn't resurrected, as that wouldn't make sense on any grounds of reality unless he took some sort of drug who stop his heart and then restart it later.

So you really think God who created heaven and earth can't do a miracle and raise Jesus from the dead? C'mon..

From what we know, Jesus DID rise from the dead... hundreds of people saw him after his resurrection. And many saw him going up into heaven too.

And even these days, Jesus is appearing supernaturally to people... which is what this thread is all about. And, this is not an anomaly... it is happening loads of times. You will see, I will post more threads on this topic.

GreentheViper
08-10-2018, 01:47 PM
So you really think God who created heaven and earth can't do a miracle and raise Jesus from the dead? C'mon..

From what we know, Jesus DID rise from the dead... hundreds of people saw him after his resurrection. And many saw him going up into heaven too.

And even these days, Jesus is appearing supernaturally to people... which is what this thread is all about. And, this is not an anomaly... it is happening loads of times. You will see, I will post more threads on this topic.


No God didn't, because I don't think God is real and i don't think he created Heaven or Earth.


Like hundreds of people have seen UFOs or Bigfoot? Jesus didn't rise from the grave because that is impossible and I repeat impossible. This is actually crazy that you think a man rose from the dead. Come on man.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
08-10-2018, 01:50 PM
From what we know, Jesus DID rise from the dead... hundreds of people saw him after his resurrection. And many saw him going up into heaven too.


There are millions who also believe that Moses split the sea and that Muhammed flew to heaven on a winged horse. Why not believe in that as well?

Benyzero
08-10-2018, 02:04 PM
My Grandma once told me a story about the time she spent in london when my uncle was sick back then as a newborn. They couldn't do the surgery in Hungary because of the lack of decent instruments back around the 60s, so they had to move to England and perform the operation there. He was born with heart problems. So my grandma was very sad and disappointed, the story is when one rainy day she was walking on the london bridge , there were no people around but someone comes along her stopping her and said "he will be okay".. out of nowhere, she didn't know him.. The guy had a hoodie, and seemingly had a beard.. I can't confirm this story, maybe the guy was just a hobo lol.. but it has burned in my mind since and I will not forgive it ever probably. Strange things are happen sometimes. : )

Loki
08-10-2018, 06:21 PM
No God didn't, because I don't think God is real and i don't think he created Heaven or Earth.


Like hundreds of people have seen UFOs or Bigfoot? Jesus didn't rise from the grave because that is impossible and I repeat impossible. This is actually crazy that you think a man rose from the dead. Come on man.

It's not crazy to believe in something that really happened. You are the fool for not wanting to believe... do you really think everything came to exist out of nothing? Really?

Hundreds of people have seen UFOs because they exist... but they're not what people think they are.

Jesus is alive, and he rose from the dead. Fact. I tell you this, do you really think I would make up this story?

Loki
08-10-2018, 06:23 PM
There are millions who also believe that Moses split the sea and that Muhammed flew to heaven on a winged horse. Why not believe in that as well?

Well, the first one is true -- God split that part of the Red Sea so the Israelites could move through. And actually, Egyptian chariots have been found at the bottom. You can investigate it.

As for Muhammed... erm, no. Islam is a lie and a fake from the devil.

Larali
08-11-2018, 02:50 AM
At first I thought the thread title was "Jesus appears to BE atheist" . LOL

Bobby Martnen
08-11-2018, 04:49 AM
So you really think God who created heaven and earth can't do a miracle and raise Jesus from the dead? C'mon..

From what we know, Jesus DID rise from the dead... hundreds of people saw him after his resurrection. And many saw him going up into heaven too.

And even these days, Jesus is appearing supernaturally to people... which is what this thread is all about. And, this is not an anomaly... it is happening loads of times. You will see, I will post more threads on this topic.

Exactly.

The apostles were so convinced that Jesus had really appeared to them that a lot of them died for it.

It couldn't be a hallucination, since hundreds of people can't all hallucinate the exact same thing, and it couldn't have been a lie, since no man would willingly die for a lie.

So the only possibility is that it was the truth.