[SPLIT] Haider gossip

[Hors]

http://blog.iconflict.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/aleqm5ia7r7jicy_nhwq-cskjhzjxa2qaw.jpg

with his boyfriend

[Hors]

Isn't "Haider" a Turkish name? And he looks decidedly Tatar to me. His boyfriend is ok thou... :-)

[Vargtand]

Isn't "Haider" a Turkish name? And he looks decidedly Tatar to me. His boyfriend is ok thou... :-)

I'll take your word for it when regarding his boyfriend, heard he is single now.. since well you know his late boyfriend being dead and all ;) [really be mindful of what you write :P]


Does not strike me as an un-germanic name, haider does not look remotely like turks I've encountered either here or in turkey so I don't quite know what features you are referring too, it is true that he shares the common characteristics with a turk though, the dual eyes, the singular nose and mouth, he also has two hands which in it self may suggest some form of at least distant relation with turks, who as far as I know share these features as well.

Jokes aside though. which features do you refer to? or is the slightly swarthy appearance which catches your eye?

[Loki]

Isn't "Haider" a Turkish name? And he looks decidedly Tatar to me. His boyfriend is ok thou... :-)

What does "ok" mean? Attractive to you?

[Heimmacht]

Atlantid I think, Haider? TURKISH!?? Laughing my fucking arse off :dielaughing:

[Hors]

Haydar (Arabic حيدر ) is one of many Arabic male given names for "lion", each denoting some aspect of the animal. Haider, Haidar, Hyder, Hydar and Heydar are variants of the transliteration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidar

Obviously, he preferred European looking mates :-)

http://blog.iconflict.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/aleqm5ia7r7jicy_nhwq-cskjhzjxa2qaw.jpg

[Vargtand]

Haydar (Arabic حيدر ) is one of many Arabic male given names for "lion", each denoting some aspect of the animal. Haider, Haidar, Hyder, Hydar and Heydar are variants of the transliteration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidar

Obviously, he preferred European looking mates :-)

http://blog.iconflict.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/aleqm5ia7r7jicy_nhwq-cskjhzjxa2qaw.jpg

Well that does not really prove anything now does it? as several names in for instance Swedish are found as words in let say Japanese with of course different meanings, you see it is quite possible that the same word developed in two areas without any contact with each others ;)

[Hors]

But there WAS the contact. And the name appeared in Austria AFTER the contact. And he DOES look Tatar... unlike his boyfriend :-)

[Æmeric]

But there WAS the contact. And the name appeared in Austria AFTER the contact. And he DOES look Tatar... unlike his boyfriend :-)


The name Haider has a frequency of 1091.07 per million in Austria. The with the second highest frequency of persons named Haider is Germany with 37.91 pm. India, which has a large number of surnames of Islamic (Persian, Arabic, Turkish) origin, Haider only has a frequency of 31.48 pm. Haider would appear to be a local indigenous surname in Austria & not a surname of exotic origins. (Source (http://www.publicprofiler.org/worldnames/Default.aspx))

Hitler, surprisingly, seems most common in India:



Country FPM
NEW-ZEALAND 1.41
INDIA 0.54
UNITED STATES 0.1
FRANCE 0.05
UNITED KINGDOM 0.02


At .54 per million x 1,000 (there are 1,000 million persons in India) that would be 540 Hitlers in Germany. 1.41 in New Zealand would only be 6 persons. Maybe Hitler is an Aryan surname ;). All the other Hitlers in the rest of the world are probably Indian immigrants. But seriously, is anyone really going to claim that Adolf was really a Hindu based on the popularity of his surname in India?

[Hors]

Haider would appear to be a local indigenous surname in Austria & not a surname of exotic origins

You forget to note that it's just your opinion.

[Vargtand]

But there WAS the contact. And the name appeared in Austria AFTER the contact. And he DOES look Tatar... unlike his boyfriend :-)

Of course it is a possibility, but I don't see it to be honest, then again I can't say I am extremely well versed in austrian family traits and such so I would not be able to make a real assumption if he belongs in austria or not. oh well perhaps you know this better and know more austirans than my self (which seems plausible seeing as I know none :P)

But one should be careful making assumptions regarding surnames, I can only use my self as an example, to many people foreigners and Swedes alike, Wallin does not sound very typical Swedish. How ever if you look at the frequency of the name you can see that it is distinctly Swedish :P


FPM
SWEDEN 1437.16
NORWAY 72.1
DENMARK 51.38
UNITED STATES 32.03
CANADA 26.13
AUSTRALIA 25.89
UNITED KINGDOM 7.71
NEW-ZEALAND 2.12
SPAIN 1.78 (what can I say we have a lot of pensioners living there:P)
AUSTRIA 1.59

As you see, despite the name being of an untypical spelling (w is not used in Swedish) it is remarkably swedish…


Point being that a name may develop on different geographical areas they may even be atypical so judging where someone may or may not be from based on the name alone is a bit foolish and I would call that seeing ghosts :)

Or the name Israelsson it is a not extremely uncommon surname here (means son of Israel) now despite the meaning it is not a jewish name :p but a reference to the bible.

[Hors]

Der Name Haider sei vor der ersten Belagerung von Wien 1529 im österreichischen Gebiet unbekannt gewesen

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,65166,00.html

The name "Haider" is not known in Austria before the first siege of Vienna in 1529 [by the Turks]

[Vargtand]

Der Name Haider sei vor der ersten Belagerung von Wien 1529 im österreichischen Gebiet unbekannt gewesen

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,65166,00.html

The name "Haider" is not known in Austria before the first siege of Vienna in 1529 [by the Turks]
Well it is still hard to say without knowing the name traditions of firstly austria and secondly heiders family in particularly. could be a taken name a few hundred years back for all I know, do you know different?

I’m not saying you are wrong, of course, but if he does have some mixture I doubt it be of a major nature.. thus focusing on it would be kind of silly would it not? Say if a person is 99% Austrian and 1% Turkish let’s assume this is the case, why would this person be seen as a turk, would the 1% include him in the Turkish sphere and exclude him out of the Austrian sphere? Would the 99% not matter as the taint is what defines a man? There seems to be an overly focus on what makes people different.. to absurdity really…

Also such features and such a complex can occur natural within a completely racial pure group of people. Say his mother had a swarthy complexion and his father had one too, chances are that he would become even swarthier than both :P

[Æmeric]

You forget to note that it's just your opinion.
But an unbiased opinion. I don't care about Haider one way or another. You on the other hand are a troll. Your remarks on the possible origins of the Haider name are meant to offend certain people.


Der Name Haider sei vor der ersten Belagerung von Wien 1529 im österreichischen Gebiet unbekannt gewesen

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,65166,00.html

The name "Haider" is not known in Austria before the first siege of Vienna in 1529 [by the Turks] Perhaps Haider was spelled differently. Many words & names have had their spellings change over the centuries.
Haider sounds & looks (by it's spelling) to be a German name to me. Maybe it was introduced into the Austrian population by a Scottish, Irish or Swedish mercenary who Germanized his surname.

[Beorn]

The name "Haider" is not known in Austria before the first siege of Vienna in 1529 [by the Turks]

Although Haider is most likely descended through Turkish origins, it is still valuable to know that Haider also means: "habitational name for someone from a place called Haid, or a topographic name for someone who lived on a heath"

[Hors]

But an unbiased opinion.

Unbased, rather.


I don't care about Haider one way or another.

:rolleyes2:


You on the other hand are a troll.

Unlike you, I can back what I say, Mr. Windbag.



Your remarks on the possible origins of the Haider name are meant to offend certain people.


Are you talking about the Turks?



Perhaps Haider was spelled differently. Many words & names have had their spellings change over the centuries.

YAWN


Haider sounds & looks (by it's spelling) to be a German name to me. Maybe it was introduced into the Austrian population by a Scottish, Irish or Swedish mercenary who Germanized his surname.

What's about the Martians? I noticed you failed to mention them, and they're as good to be responsible as the other candidates you mentioned :D

[sturmwalkure]

So what if Haider had Tatar/Turkic roots [if he even did] it was obviously an insignificant percentage [if even true] and the man was Austrian as far was he was concerned and as far as I am concerned.

[Beorn]

So what if Haider had Tatar/Turkic roots [if he even did] it was obviously an insignificant percentage [if even true] and the man was Austrian as far was he was concerned and as far as I am concerned.

It would mean a lot to some, if not most people.

I would be eternally ashamed if the only political representative I had vouching for me was of questionable descent and questionable sexuality.

There was a time when our ancestors undertook great importance to assign only the physically, mentally, and spiritually pure as the leader of their destiny.
A trait that is unfortunately lost.

[Vargtand]

There was a time when our ancestors undertook great importance to assign only the physically, mentally, and spiritually pure as the leader of their destiny.
A trait that is unfortunately lost.

Umm what do you base that on?

[Beorn]

Umm what do you base that on?


The Celts.

A famous example would be the King Nuada of the Tuatha who lost his right hand in the battle of Mag Tuireadh.
He was removed from his position as king and replaced by one who was physically pure.

A physical impurity would reflect badly upon not only the king, but upon his subjects and the land.

This tradition is notable amongst many cultures around the world.

[Vargtand]

The Celts.

A famous example would be the King Nuada of the Tuatha who lost his right hand in the battle of Mag Tuireadh.
He was removed from his position as king and replaced by one who was physically pure.

A physical impurity would reflect badly upon not only the king, but upon his subjects and the land.

This tradition is notable amongst many cultures around the world.


What is truth and what is fiction though? may have been like that, may have also been something lost in translation? perhaps he was killed and his successor spread this myth? Don't know, think one should be careful with taking sagas and stories as facts.

[Beorn]

Don't know, think one should be careful with taking sagas and stories as facts.


I was merely quoting the most famous example.

The Brehon Laws on the other hand were not stories or sagas, but a factual collection of laws that one can use to clearly depict the traditions of the Celts.

In regards to the purity of the King=the purity of the land,


"the king's right was known by the physical fertility of the land and herds, and the prosperity of the people he ruled. If the people suffered, the king could, and often would be overthrown by someone who had a better connection with the Gods, as proved in the field of battle."This cultural trend can be seen around the world.


The belief that the fertility of the land is bound up with the health of the king appears as early as the fourteenth century B.C. in the Poem of Keret form Ras Shamra-Ugarit, in N. Syria. When that monarch falls ill, corn and rain fail…

[Loki]

Ah ... of course. Haider seems to have been quite a bit anti-Russian (http://www.huliq.com/62873/euro-2008-poisoned-race-remarks-against-russia-turkey), hence Hors' wrath. Quite petty Hors.

[Osweo]

Although Haider is most likely descended through Turkish origins,
We expect a certain amount of drivel of Hors, sure, but you, BWW?!? Are you out of your mind?!?

it is still valuable to know that Haider also means: "habitational name for someone from a place called Haid, or a topographic name for someone who lived on a heath"
How can you say the above, and persist with absurd Turkish talk?

The middle easterners have a word that sounds ONLY SLIGHTLY similar. Hell, my own surname sounds a bit like 'bad breath after drinking' in Russian (:p) but to imply a CAUSAL relationship is pure stupidity.

[Hors]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24544105-954,00.html

Right-wing extremist Joerg Haider's gay love outed

AUSTRIA has been rocked after the male successor to controversial right-wing leader Joerg Haider virtually admitted to having a gay affair with him.
Stefan Petzner, 27, who recently replaced Haider as leader of the extremist Alliance for the Future of Austria, effectively outed himself as the late leader's gay lover while being interviewed on radio.

Haider, 58, was long suspected of leading a double existence during his years in power. He was pictured cuddling a man in a gay bar where he had his final drinks before the car crash which claimed his life on October 11.

Alliance leaders acted quickly yesterday by sacking Mr Petzner and replacing him with Josef Buchner, 43.

In a highly emotional interview, Mr Petzner recalled how he rushed to the hospital where 52-year-old Haider lay dead.

He admitted that he felt a "magnetic attraction" for Haider.

"We had a relationship that went far beyond friendship. Joerg and I were connected by something truly special," Mr Petzner said.

He insisted that Haider's widow, Claudia, did not object to his relationship.

"She loved him as a woman. He loved her as a man. I loved him in a completely different and personal way. She understood that," Mr Petzner said.

Haider crashed his limousine while drunk and driving at more than double the speed limit.

Hours before he was buried it was revealed he drank a whole bottle of vodka in a seedy gay bar with an unidentified male friend.

His party more than doubled its share of the vote in Austria's general election at the end of September in which the far right won 30 per cent.

The result prompted speculation that Haider would once again figure in Austrian national politics.

Allegations that Haider was either gay or bisexual were first published in Austria nearly a decade ago.

However, the far-right leader, who fathered two children with his wife, refused to discuss the allegations, fearing that they would alienate thousands of his ultra-conservative followers.

Until yesterday, conservative Austria had preferred not to dwell on the subject and allowed Haider to portray himself, at least outwardly, as a traditional family man - although his party was nicknamed the "Haiders Boy Party".

[Hors]

I believe that the word "gossip" should be removed from the title of the thread. What's about "revelations" or "truth"? :-)

[Beorn]

Ah ... of course. Haider seems to have been quite a bit anti-Russian (http://www.huliq.com/62873/euro-2008-poisoned-race-remarks-against-russia-turkey), hence Hors' wrath. Quite petty Hors.

An interesting article, Loki.

I wonder what Jorg's problem with Russia being included in the Euro Championships were? What was his problem fullstop with Russia?
Turkey I could understand, but Russia is as European as Spain or Ireland.



We expect a certain amount of drivel of Hors, sure, but you, BWW?!? Are you out of your mind?!?

I think Jorg Haider is fair game for speculation in my opinion, but in respect to what I said, I neither said he was nor wasn't of Turkish descent; but could be of Turkish descent.

[Osweo]

I think Jorg Haider is fair game for speculation in my opinion, but in respect to what I said, I neither said he was nor wasn't of Turkish descent; but could be of Turkish descent.

I don't see how 'speculation' i.e. muck-raking and slander profits the cause of Austrians who wish to regain control of the direction of their country. You said 'most likely' which is clear enough, probably around 65% possibility or thereabouts, when in actual fact it's some oddball Russian's ignorant fantasy. There is a famous Tatar surname Gaidar. Coincidence, pure and simple. You might look at the Balkan word Hayduk, derivatives found in the Ukrainian/Russian surname Gaidamak, for a parallel, but again, pure coincidence. It's about as intellectually watertight as supposing Guido to be a cognate!

I suggest people with such inhealthy interests in digging into people's supposed pasts for gossip should focus them onto our ENEMIES, not those who've gone out of their way to stand for European values (no matter how we may disagree on specific policy points).

[Beorn]

I don't see how 'speculation' i.e. muck-raking and slander profits the cause of Austrians who wish to regain control of the direction of their country.

In light of his stance against Russia, (and I will admit that perhaps more information would be preferable), I would say I'm glad the man is dead and not capable of leading any Austrians.

Muck raking an enemy is always fun.

[Hors]

There is a famous Tatar surname Gaidar. Coincidence, pure and simple.

And another coincidence:

The name Haider has been unknown in Austria before the first siege of Vienna in 1529


You might look at the Balkan word Hayduk, derivatives found in the Ukrainian/Russian surname Gaidamak, for a parallel, but again, pure coincidence.

And, again, it's not coincidence, it's another word of Turkish origin:

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA%D 0%B8

Гайдама́ки,Дейнеки,Опрышки (от тур. haydımak — нападать)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/d/d3/%D0%9D%D0%9C_%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BC% D0%B0%D0%BA_%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B2_%D1%85% D1%83%D0%B4.jpg

:D

[Osweo]

And another coincidence:

The name Haider has been unknown in Austria before the first siege of Vienna in 1529
And in other parts of Germany? And when did surnames for peasants first come into vogue in Austria anyway?

It looks a bit like the Turkic word, but has a perfectly straightforward German meaning.

If his surname was a result of Turkish influence, it would most likely have come through a Slavonic medium, and would have been garbled into Haiduk. I don't doubt that there are many Slavs in the Balkans wearing Turkish influenced names that are completely lacking in Turkish ancestors. There were many Turkic words floating around, getting borrowed into local speech, and even turned into surnames. Khadzhiev is a common Bulgarian name, for instance, but doesn't necessarily mean the person is a Turk in ancestry.

And, again, it's not coincidence, it's another word of Turkish origin:
Гайдама́ки,Дейнеки,Опрышки (от тур. haydımak — нападать)
:D
There are alternative etymologies involving Rumanian and Albanian terms. Anyway, not too relevant to the main thread, of heaping abuse on a dead man. Possibly even assassinated.

[Hors]

And in other parts of Germany? And when did surnames for peasants first come into vogue in Austria anyway?

You have anything to say on the subject or are you simply flooding?



It looks a bit like the Turkic word, but has a perfectly straightforward German meaning.

It looks 100% Turkic.


If his surname was a result of Turkish influence, it would most likely have come through a Slavonic medium, and would have been garbled into Haiduk.

I don't even want to ask you to reveal the brilliant chain of reasons which led you to make this stunning conclusion.



I don't doubt that there are many Slavs in the Balkans wearing Turkish influenced names that are completely lacking in Turkish ancestors. There were many Turkic words floating around, getting borrowed into local speech, and even turned into surnames. Khadzhiev is a common Bulgarian name, for instance, but doesn't necessarily mean the person is a Turk in ancestry.

As it was already noter, Haider is a fair game ;-)


There are alternative etymologies involving Rumanian and Albanian terms. Anyway, not too relevant to the main thread

Were not it you who brought up the subject, or did I miss something? :D

[Osweo]

You have anything to say on the subject or are you simply flooding?
My questions there are key to the matter. The origin of Hayder's surname is a linguistic question with historical factors, and should be investigated as such, if anyone can be bothered.

At the end of the day though, he was an Austrian. His grandparents and greatgrandparents didn't wear Fezzes and impale Bulgarian babies on bayonets or send Armenians on forced death marches through deserts, and that's good enough for me.


It looks 100% Turkic.
It might even BE 100% Turkic, though I've outlined my reasons for doubt, and yet the man himself could be 100% German.

From a philologist's point of view (the only one that should matter here), what LOOKS to be something very often isn't.

To settle the question, we'd need to look at the surname beyond the Austrian area (an ancestor could have been from Bohemia or Westfalen or anywhere), general surname patterns in Austria (how they are formed and when), and deeply investigate this man's individual pedigree.

The onus is on those who spread the gossip to justify it, not on others to refute it.

[Hors]

Gossip? It's findings of an Austrian historian, a professional who researched the subject he's talking about.

The only gossip here is your speculations, unsubstantiated, illogical and proven false
regularly.

[Heimmacht]

Jörg Haider - Haider's parents. Haider's parents were Nazis and early NSDAP party members. However they had different family backgrounds. His father (Robert Haider) was a simple shoemaker and his mother (Dorothea Rupp) was the daughter of a wealthy medical doctor of note who headed the general hospital of Linz. [1] Robert Haider had joined the NSDAP in 1929 as a fifteen year-old boy long before Adolf Hitler had come to power in Germany. Robert Haider remained a member even after the Austrian Nazi Party was banne ...

As if the NSDAP would let any Turks join their cause, yeah right, very far fetched. Nice try though....

[Hors]

It looks you missed it... actually, we're talking abouth the 16th century, when the name "Haider" appeared in Austria, simultaneously with the invasion of the Turks, what leads to plausible conclusion it was introduced by the turks, being common among them...

[Addergebroed]

It looks you missed it... actually, we're talking abouth the 16th century, when the name "Haider" appeared in Austria, simultaneously with the invasion of the Turks, what leads to plausible conclusion it was introduced by the turks, being common among them...

Well, silly me, wasn't this thread about Jorg himself?:confused::p

[Hors]

Yeah, sure, about Jorg being a fag and semi-Tatar... The name issue is secondary, of course.

[Æmeric]

^

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg201/Aemeric/troll_2.jpg

[Absinthe]

http://www.homee.com/pic/thread%20sucks.jpg

[Brynhild]

Please pardon my pedantic behaviour, as I'm sure this thread is meant to be serious, but here is a discrepancy I couldn't help but notice...


http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24544105-954,00.html

Haider, 58, was long suspected of leading a double existence during his years in power. He was pictured cuddling a man in a gay bar where he had his final drinks before the car crash which claimed his life on October 11.

Note the above age written.


In a highly emotional interview, Mr Petzner recalled how he rushed to the hospital where 52-year-old Haider lay dead.


Note the difference in age here.

Fair dinkum, if they can't even get the age right in one article about this bloke, I don't see much credibility for the rest of it.

[Hors]

Mods keep deleting my posts. Does it mean that discussion of Haider's homosexuality is prohibited on the forum?

[Loki]

Mods keep deleting my posts. Does it mean that discussion of Haider's homosexuality is prohibited on the forum?

No, it means that spam posts containing single images, posted repeatedly, are deleted. Continue with this, and more serious action will be taken. We are very lenient with you.

[Hors]

No, it means that spam posts containing single images, posted repeatedly, are deleted. Continue with this, and more serious action will be taken. We are very lenient with you.

Is it kosher to post new images here? specifically, the images of Haider with his homosexual partners, but the new ones?

[Loki]

Is it kosher to post new images here? specifically, the images of Haider with his homosexual partners, but the new ones?

You can post any new information, but we've already seen that one with Haider and that other guy ... you must have posted it about 5 times already -- hence classifying as spam.

Oh, and one-liners like "Haider was a fag" don't add much to the debate either. If you want to post stuff like that it will just get deleted, and you will end up wasting your time posting it. I have much time on my hands, I can delete it 1,000 times if you post it repeatedly anyway. :wink

[Hors]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/23/jorge

The successor to the Austrian rightwing populist Jörg Haider, Stefan Petzner, has shocked the staunchly conservative country by revealing in a tearful interview that they shared a "special relationship".

Petzner, 27, who was confirmed yesterday as the leader of the Alliance for the Future of Austria (BZO) after Haider's death in a car crash two weeks ago, made the admission on Austrian radio, effectively confirming long-standing rumours that he and Haider were lovers.

Attempts by the party to stop repeats of the broadcast failed after the state broadcaster ORF insisted it would not be gagged.

Petzner, who met Haider five years ago when he was working as a beauty correspondent, said he felt a "magnetic attraction" to the firebrand politician, who was 31 years his senior. He said that Haider's main worry was that their relationship would not withstand the age gap.

Petzner said: "We had a relationship that went far beyond friendship. Jörg and I were connected by something really special. He was the man of my life."

The news stunned Austria, which has been coming to terms with the death of the anti-immigrant politician. Haider, who voted against a parliamentary motion to lower the age of consent for homosexuals, had presented himself as a family man who drank sparingly. But after the car crash it was revealed that he had been driving at twice the speed limit, his blood alcohol level had been four times the legal limit, and he had spent his final hours in a gay bar in Klagenfurt, the capital of the southern state where he was governor.

There has been further speculation that the crash happened after Haider and Petzner argued at a party.

Petzner said that Claudia, Haider's wife of 32 years and the mother of his two daughters, had not objected to their relationship.

But in an interview published in an Austrian women's magazine, Petzner's sister Christiane seemed to suggest otherwise.

"Claudia was sometimes jealous of him because he spent more time with her husband than she did," she said.

[Hors]

You can post any new information, but we've already seen that one with Haider and that other guy ... you must have posted it about 5 times already -- hence classifying as spam.

You've have seen and deleted it, 5 times or less, but you have never allowed it to stay... :rolleyes2:

I'm talking about this picture, deleted at least 2 times:

http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00hz17qe.jpg

the real winner,isn't it? :thumb001: :D



Oh, and one-liners like "Haider was a fag" don't add much to the debate either.

One liner or multi-liner, Haider was still a fag... but if you want it elaborated, ok :D

[Loki]

You've have seen and deleted it, 5 times or less, but you have never allowed it to stay... :rolleyes2:


What is this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19589&postcount=1) then?



I'm talking about this picture, deleted at least 2 times:

http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00hz17qe.jpg

the real winner,isn't it? :thumb001: :D


Thanks for sharing, now we've all seen it. You'll have to dig out a new one now.

[Hors]

Thanks for acknowledging the fact of blatant frivolous censorship on the forum. I made the picture show on the thread, in case someone will fail to load it :-)

Now, what's wrong with my avatar? Why was it removed?

[Osweo]

Thanks for acknowledging the fact of blatant frivolous censorship on the forum.

Yeah great, now go make your own forum, and see how many rush to join up... :thumbs up

[Loki]

Now, what's wrong with my avatar? Why was it removed?

I don't know what you're talking about. Nobody touched your avatar.

[Hors]

thumb's up! I hope it will stay. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Thanks for acknowledging the fact of blatant frivolous censorship on the forum. I made the picture show on the thread, in case someone will fail to load it :-)
blatant frivolous censorship - do me a favour and create your own forum and start trolling yourself.

Dasvidanja:mad:

[Hors]

Yeah great, now go make your own forum, and see how many rush to join up... :thumbs up

LOL

I have the oldest functioning anthropological forum on the net, it's 2nd or 3rd largest and (don't take it as an offence, Loki) significantly more popular than this one...

[Loki]

thumb's up! I hope it will stay. :D

If you want a dead man as your avatar, go right ahead.

[The Lawspeaker]

LOL

I have the oldest functioning anthropological forum on the net, it's 2nd or 3rd largest and (don't take it as an offence, Loki) significantly more popular than this one...
Then do us a favour and go there. Don't let the door hit you....

[Loki]

LOL

I have the oldest functioning anthropological forum on the net, it's 2nd or 3rd largest and (don't take it as an offence, Loki) significantly more popular than this one...

What is your forum's policy on trolls? ;)

[Hors]

Most of the users here use dead men and women as their avatars.

You, for starters. And Lawspeaker, and Aemeric.

And another guy on my avatar is still alive! :D

[Brynhild]

Most of the users here use dead men and women as their avatars.

You, for starters. And Lawspeaker, and Aemeric.

And another guy on my avatar is still alive! :D

Ehrm, Loki's avatar pertains to a fictitious character? :rolleyes2:

[Osweo]

It'd be nice if a Russian, especially a 'Great' one, were to have an avatar showing some tasteful artwork paying homage to his country's greatness. Something to impress those who don't know so much about his land and culture. A nice print from Bilibin wouldn't go amiss, for instance;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=811&stc=1&d=1235862433

But no, he uses the opportunity to join in with the Nation-Haters and shovel shit onto the memory of a dead man. About as honorable as all the journalists and 'professional historians' who happened to wait for the man's death to go spouting all this distraction...

[Hors]

Then do us a favour and go there.


You don't like the bashing of Austrian fags, do you? :)

[Hors]

Ehrm, Loki's avatar pertains to a fictitious character? :rolleyes2:

Nevertheless, Darth Vader is DEAD! :D

[Vulpix]

You don't like the bashing of Austrian fags, do you? :)

What is the point?

[Hors]

What is your forum's policy on trolls? ;)

Zero tolerance.

However, some important points should be taken into consideration when enforcing this policy:

1. If a user is trolling in response of other members inane posts, it should not be considered as an offence unless it evolves into flooding/flaming. But if such other members are senior members or mods/admins, this exception does not apply, as their posts could not possibly be inane by definition.
2. If it's an old or valuable member who is known to be able actually back his/her point of view with facts/sources or intelligent reasoning it's not an offence unless, if asked, such a user fails to submit any evidence supporting his/her claims.
3. If it's not a serious thread/subject (usually a discussion in the Lounge section) trolling is not to be addressed unless it evolves into flooding/flaming.

[Heimmacht]

It'd be nice if a Russian, especially a 'Great' one, were to have an avatar showing some tasteful artwork paying homage to his country's greatness. Something to impress those who don't know so much about his land and culture. A nice print from Bilibin wouldn't go amiss, for instance;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=811&stc=1&d=1235862433

But no, he uses the opportunity to join in with the Nation-Haters and shovel shit onto the memory of a dead man. About as honorable as all the journalists and 'professional historians' who happened to wait for the man's death to go spouting all this distraction...

One needs taste to even recognise art when they see it.

By the way with people like this joining TA, I can imagine AF or Loki would feel like freaking babysitters.

[Vulpix]

I can imagine AF or Loki would feel like freaking babysitters.

You are spot on :D...

[lei.talk]

I have the oldest functioning anthropological forum on the net...may we have the url-link?

[Hors]

It's in Russian. We have English sections, but as foreign visitors are few there is not much activity there.

http://slavanthro.mybb3.ru/

[Vargtand]

You don't like the bashing of Austrian fags, do you? :)

Personally I don't like fags any more than you do, would the work Jörg Haider had done, and the how should we say nationalistic sentiment and winds that blow over Europe as a consequence of his work be less real or less important if he was or was not homosexual, and if he was or was not of questionable decent? Maybe central Europe needs homosexual leaders in the same sense as Russia needs foreign leaders to reach greatness? After all your royal line was of Swedish decent for several hundred years, and Stalin was not very Russian either now was he :p

[Hors]

Do you allude to Hitler, Rem and Co being fags?

Anyway, regarding your remark about Russia:

Rurikids turned out to be either R1a or N1c, neither of which is specific for Sweden. Neither member of the line identified himself as a non-Russian (except Ivan the Terrible :D).

Russia reached greatness under the rule of the purely Russian Romanov dynasty.

[Vargtand]

Do you allude to Hitler, Rem and Co being fags?

Anyway, regarding your remark about Russia:

Rurikids turned out to be either R1a or N1c, neither of which is specific for Sweden. Neither member of the line identified himself as a non-Russian (except Ivan the Terrible :D).

Russia reached greatness under the rule of the purely Russian Romanov dynasty.

Well regarding them.. I let that be un-sung. :P

Are any genetic lines specific to a single country? Rurik was a Rus how ever, his line did rule to mid 1600 if I don't remember incorrectly. Well Haider identified him self as Austrian so there we go. ;)

Are you saying there was a time when Russia was not great then? :P

[Brynhild]

Russia reached greatness under the rule of the purely Russian Romanov dynasty.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall, and they did fall!

[Hors]

A great boxer is not the one who does not fall, but the one who always stands up.

[Hors]

Are any genetic lines specific to a single country?

Yes.


Rurik was a Rus how ever

Rus and Rusi were known in the south centuries before small bands of Scandinavian merchants and mercenaries started to penetrate to Russia.



, his line did rule to mid 1600 if I don't remember incorrectly. Well Haider identified him self as Austrian so there we go. ;)

Nobody says he was not an Austrian.



Are you saying there was a time when Russia was not great then? :P

Yep. Last time - between 1995 and 1999. Before that - between 1917 and 1930s. Before that - between 1590s and 1630s. Etc.

[Manifest Destiny]

Was Haider actually gay, or is this stuff about his "boyfriend" just a joke? :confused:

[Vargtand]

Was Haider actually gay, or is this stuff about his "boyfriend" just a joke? :confused:

Well media seems to be in favour of that opinion, personally I don't know, don't know him

[Lenny]

Well that does not really prove anything now does it? as several names in for instance Swedish are found as words in let say Japanese with of course different meanings, you see it is quite possible that the same word developed in two areas without any contact with each others ;)

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3821/obamajapan.jpg


The first racially-Japanese president of the USA. The name proves it!! :D

[Vargtand]

Yes.
Fair enough, does not mean that Rurik was not born and raised in Scandinavia, it is fully possible that he was a descendant of a thrall of course.


Rus and Rusi were known in the south centuries before small bands of Scandinavian merchants and mercenaries started to penetrate to Russia.

I know very well my brother peoples history. Still how does this question or disprove that Rurik was a Rus?


Nobody says he was not an Austrian.

You are how ever "questioning" his austrian-ness so to speak with your accusations. While in the same breath you protect your old royal line with the simple defence, that they do not identify them self as none-Russians. Few monarch has ever been of ethnical stock.. Especially not since Christian times so what they identified them self as should be quite irrelevant.




Yep. Last time - between 1995 and 1999. Before that - between 1917 and 1930s. Before that - between 1590s and 1630s. Etc.

Fair enough.

[Hors]

Fair enough, does not mean that Rurik was not born and raised in Scandinavia, it is fully possible that he was a descendant of a thrall of course.

There is no direct evidence pointing to the place of birth of Rurik, only theories/speculations. It could have been any Baltic country, acc. to various sources. That's if Rurik ever existed.

And R1a or N1c in his descendants suggest that most likely his line was of either Slavic, Baltic or Finnic origin. Scandinavian/Germanic HGs are I1a and R1b.


I know very well my brother peoples history. Still how does this question or disprove that Rurik was a Rus?

It suggests that Rus was not of Scandinavian, Finnic or Baltic origin, if any ethnic affiliation of that group ever been.

[Manifest Destiny]

Well media seems to be in favour of that opinion, personally I don't know, don't know him

Is there any evidence of him being gay, or is the fact that he wasn't totally anti-white all the evidence they needed?

[Hors]

His lover who, for a short time, succeeded him as the party leader, has opently admitted that Haider was a homosexual.

What else do you need?

[Absinthe]

Who TF cares? :rolleyes2:

[Vargtand]

There is no direct evidence pointing to the place of birth of Rurik, only theories/speculations. It could have been any Baltic country, acc. to various sources. That's if Rurik ever existed.

True, the theories are based on the finnic languages words for swedes which is deriven from roslagen (finish Ruotsi
,estonian Rootsi), but true it is hard to prove any of this. There are some claims that an old Scandinavian name for Russia was new sviþjod though (new sweden) can't say I have any real base for this more than hearsay though. Hard to prove things that far back.

Well did Jesus exist? Who knows. Still he could as I said be descendant of a slave... that is fully possible.


And R1a or N1c in his descendants suggest that most likely his line was of either Slavic, Baltic or Finnic origin. Scandinavian/Germanic HGs are I1a and R1b.

Is that not the Y-chromosome though? Only way to be certain is if only sons were born, is it not possible that one descendant had a daughter? History may skip these things. of course it could be the mail-man so to speak. :P I wont speculate as this is more your history than mine.


It suggests that Rus was not of Scandinavian, Finnic or Baltic origin, if any ethnic affiliation of that group ever been.

Well that would only be true if his line was untainted as it was hardly rurik that was tested so it is impossible to say for certain, it would also require rurik to be a native rus, and indeed not a son of a slave or a grandson or grate grate grandson of a slave if it is the fathers line that is. to many uncertain variable to make a claim either way. Scandinavians all of our tribes were quite mobile though we travelled around the world so they may have shown up a little here and there :P

[Vargtand]

His lover who, for a short time, succeeded him as the party leader, has opently admitted that Haider was a homosexual.

What else do you need?

You do know it is fully possible and not unheard for politicians to lie though?

[Manifest Destiny]

His lover who, for a short time, succeeded him as the party leader, has opently admitted that Haider was a homosexual.

What else do you need?

I was just curious. I'm not shocked or horrified if it's true, nor would I be surprised if it was an attempt by the media to slander him.

[Beorn]

You do know it is fully possible and not unheard for politicians to lie though?

It would be if it hadn't come from the very deputy who was his lover and companion.


I was just curious. I'm not shocked or horrified if it's true, nor would I be surprised if it was an attempt by the media to slander him.

It would be mighty strange for the tolerant media to insinuate Haider was Gay as a way of slandering his name though, wouldn't it?

[Vargtand]

It would be if it hadn't come from the very deputy who was his lover and companion.
Does not necessarily mean that he won’t lie, why would he come out with it? One must ask what he has to gain from doing so...



It would be mighty strange for the tolerant media to insinuate Haider was Gay as a way of slandering his name though, wouldn't it?

No not really, as it would undermine his respect in the intolerant group that are considered his main supporters...

[Beorn]

Does not necessarily mean that he won’t lie, why would he come out with it? One must ask what he has to gain from doing so...

An openly gay man would not have an emotional outburst through the public media just to merely lie about one man.

What did he gain from doing so? Nothing. Except perhaps the peace of mind to the memory of his gay lover, Jorg Haider!



No not really, as it would undermine his respect in the intolerant group that are considered his main supporters...

Seeming as the "rumours" have been doing the rounds in the media since well past the year 2000, I would think not in this case.

He still had a phenomenal amount of success even though the media had outed him.

[Hors]

Is that not the Y-chromosome though? Only way to be certain is if only sons were born, is it not possible that one descendant had a daughter? History may skip these things. of course it could be the mail-man so to speak. I wont speculate as this is more your history than mine.

Y-chromosome goes from father to son only, in unbroken line.


Well that would only be true if his line was untainted as it was hardly rurik that was tested so it is impossible to say for certain, it would also require rurik to be a native rus, and indeed not a son of a slave or a grandson or grate grate grandson of a slave if it is the fathers line that is. to many uncertain variable to make a claim either way. Scandinavians all of our tribes were quite mobile though we travelled around the world so they may have shown up a little here and there

We're talking about history here, not genetics. The Rus were well known in the northern Black Sea region long before Rurik or ANY Scandinavians made it to what's now Russia, and they were presented down there in numbers far surpassing even those of Gustav Vasa and Charles the XII's armies.

[Vargtand]

Y-chromosome goes from father to son only, in unbroken line.
That was what I said was it not.. at least that was what I intended to say...




We're talking about history here, not genetics. The Rus were well known in the northern Black Sea region long before Rurik or ANY Scandinavians made it to what's now Russia, and they were presented down there in numbers far surpassing even those of Gustav Vasa and Charles the XII's armies.
All swedes are not rus.. Mind posting some articles regarding this, I feel I have to educate my self a bit more regarding the rus..

[Vargtand]

An openly gay man would not have an emotional outburst through the public media just to merely lie about one man.


I'm not gay so I would not know.


What did he gain from doing so? Nothing. Except perhaps the peace of mind to the memory of his gay lover, Jorg Haider!
Cementing his succession? As clearly a relationship would indicate that there was some form of trust between them? I don't know you seem to know the individuals in question and understand how they think..



Seeming as the "rumours" have been doing the rounds in the media since well past the year 2000, I would think not in this case.

He still had a phenomenal amount of success even though the media had outed him.

Well now we wont know if this will lead to sympathy votes or votes from a tolerant crowd... would be more interesting to see what had happened had he not died and him self would have gone out in public if this is the case. to be honest I claim I know more about how an intolerant person would vote than you ;) (not necessarily that it would be good :P ) as to be honest people will cling on to not accepting hearsay or rumours even though they are true until it becomes to painfully obvious that they can not deny it and such will turn away.

We shall see what happens.

[Loki]

I was just curious. I'm not shocked or horrified if it's true, nor would I be surprised if it was an attempt by the media to slander him.

Well, so what? Several greatly respected men in the "far right" spectrum in Europe are/were gay. Among others, I am thinking of Pim Fortuyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn) and Richard Barnbrook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barnbrook). Gay or not, they're doing good work. Pim Fortuyn has probably been one of the most influential Dutch politicians this century.

[Beorn]

I'm not gay so I would not know.

You wouldn't have to be gay to know.


Cementing his succession? As clearly a relationship would indicate that there was some form of trust between them? I don't know you seem to know the individuals in question and understand how they think..

Perhaps! But, as for knowing them, I don't know them from Adam. I am merely working with the evidence provided.


to be honest I claim I know more about how an intolerant person would vote than you ;)

Oh yes, how's that? :)

[Vargtand]

You wouldn't have to be gay to know.
Well I personal can not relate, last time I cried for someone that died around me I was 8, not very emotional in that sense, can't say I can relate.




Perhaps! Bit, as for knowing them, I don't know them from Adam. I am merely working with the evidence provided.

Well indeed evidence is hardly 100% accurate when it comes from media or peoples interpretations. I'm not saying I don't think he is homosexual, personally I believe he is, but there is always the possibility that someone has something to gain for making it appear that way. I can claim that he is at least not gay now.


Oh yes, how's that? :)

Personal experience :P

[Hors]

Well, so what? Several greatly respected men in the "far right" spectrum in Europe are/were gay. Among others, I am thinking of Pim Fortuyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn) and Richard Barnbrook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barnbrook). Gay or not, they're doing good work. Pim Fortuyn has probably been one of the most influential Dutch politicians this century.

I wonder, what is your attitude towards the people in the "far right" spectrum with non-white mates? and mixed progenity? still doing good work... or not, taking into account their personal example...

[Beorn]

Well indeed evidence is hardly 100% accurate when it comes from media or peoples interpretations.


What would make it accurate, then, bar an outright omission from the man himself?

Even his wife commented about her concern for his time spent with Petzner.
Too much time with his special 'Boys party' and not enough time with the wife and children.

Heaven forbid he would ever get found out.

http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/b/e/3/347107/APA20071203134554.jpg

[Æmeric]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6366/retarded8oi5.jpg

[Loki]

I wonder, what is your attitude towards the people in the "far right" spectrum with non-white mates? and mixed progenity? still doing good work... or not, taking into account their personal example...

Are there such? :confused:

[SwordoftheVistula]

Barnbrook gay? I haven't seen any evidence to that, and he has dated women

[Loki]

Barnbrook gay? I haven't seen any evidence to that, and he has dated women

It's speculation, but apparently he made a homo-erotic film at one stage.

[lei.talk]

...he has dated womenthose two statements
would be true of most of the gay men i have known. :eek:

some were happily married. :faint2:

[Manifest Destiny]

It would be mighty strange for the tolerant media to insinuate Haider was Gay as a way of slandering his name though, wouldn't it?

Not if they did it to discredit him and drive away his supporters.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Not if they did it to discredit him and drive away his supporters.

Good point, the media tends to get angry if someone so much as mentions the fact that a leftwinger is homosexual, but points it out endlessly if it is someone roughly identified with conservatism.

[Beorn]

Not if they did it to discredit him and drive away his supporters.

You missed my point.

The media openly questioned his sexuality because the evidence was overwhelming.
The cases of questioning other "right-wingers" sexuality has always been apparent slandering, whereas this as been justified journalism.

But, since he has died, the party has gone from strength to strength, and it can't be ignored that the departure of a questionable person such as Haider has brought out more voters.

[Absinthe]

Arguing whether a dead politician was gay or not, is as productive as arguing whether Hitler had two, or one, testicle (:eek: yes, I've actually heard that hypothesis! :D)

The point it, who cares if Hitler had one, two, three, or a million zillion trillion testicles? :D You judge a historical figure by his/her deeds and the consequences of those deeds.

We can analyze for years whether Hitler's or Stalin's or Churchill's idea/action/command/etc was good or bad, what effects it had and so on and so forth....but whether Churchill was a drunkard, Stalin was a lover of pre-teens, Hitler had one testicle and Haider was gay....is totally irrelevant to the question.

I am personally indifferent towards Haider but nevertheless I am struggling to understand why his sexuality has been made such a huge issue, not just in this thread but in other fora as well.

I am thinking it's part of the disease of our times that people tend to get entertained by gossip and the tabloids instead of focusing on the real issues at hand. Again...o tempora, o mores.... :rolleyes:

[Beorn]

The point it, who cares if Hitler had one, two, three, or a million zillion trillion testicles?

I do. :)

Hitler ranted and raved about the Aryan race being perfect and other races being unclean and not worthy of existing. He exterminated the disabled and the mentally retarded, and did or did not have 6 million Jews gassed to their deaths.
All this time the man only had one ball; was thought to have "desires" for his relatives and is thought to have had mental incapacities himself in later life.

A man to dictate and lead people? Not in my eyes.

The same could be said of Haider.
Family values and a shining respect for National Socialist policies he may have had, but the man was a homosexual, cheated on his wife - and his gay lover - it seems, and was a prolific drinker and drug taker.
Let's not forget his drink driving too.

What an example to hold up against the light and tell our children to respect and adore. :rolleyes:

My vote would have been in the post, I'm sure.

[Absinthe]

Hitler ranted and raved about the Aryan race being perfect and other races being unclean and not worthy of existing. He exterminated the disabled and the mentally retarded, and did or did not have 6 million Jews gassed to their deaths.

I don't believe in all that. :)

But even if he did what you say he did, again the testicle issue would have been the last concern of mine. You see, he still would not be a 'mad dictator' singlehandedly acting out his testicle deficiency complexes on a whole nation.
He was supported and assisted by a very large group of people, did they all have one testicle as well? :)

[Beorn]

I don't believe in all that. :)

The holocaust is not believable, but the rest I do believe.


But even if he did what you say he did, again the testicle issue would have been the last concern of mine. You see, he still would not be a 'mad dictator' singlehandedly acting out his testicle deficiency complexes on a whole nation.
He was supported and assisted by a very large group of people, did they all have one testicle as well? :)


They certainly liked to consume alcohol and sleep with mistresses all the while publicly professing to adhere to the strict party doctrine of family values and unity.

It isn't so much the fact of Hitler having one testicle per se, but his strong insistence that others were somehow not worthy because of their physical deformities whilst being physically deformed himself.

[Osweo]

Hasn't the One Ball story been debunked millions of times?

Just goes to show the value of starting up these smear stories in the first place - they never die. :(


EDIT: XOPC!!! Make a thread about the 'Roksolani'=Rus' in the Russian section! I always enjoy ripping that 'antiNormanist' drivel to pieces! ;)

[Beorn]

Hasn't the One Ball story been debunked millions of times?




It's in the air. Johan Jambor, a Polish Medic during WWI, admitted to a priest that:

“In 1916 they had their hardest fight in the Battle of the Somme. “For several hours, Johan and his friends picked up injured soldiers. He remembers Hitler.
“They called him the ‘Screamer’(Schreihals). He was very noisy. Hitler was screaming ‘help, help’.
“His abdomen and legs were all in blood. Hitler was injured in the abdomen and lost one testicle. His first question to the doctor was: ‘Will I be able to have children?’.”




The evidence is largely there to make an informed conclusion.




:whistle:

<dl><dd>Hitler has only got one ball,</dd><dd>The other is on the kitchen wall,</dd><dd>His mother, the dirty bugger,</dd><dd>Chopped it off when he was small.</dd></dl>:whistle:

[Hors]

XOPC!!! Make a thread about the 'Roksolani'=Rus' in the Russian section! I always enjoy ripping that 'antiNormanist' drivel to pieces! ;)


You're welcome, proceed :D

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21451#post21451

[Lenny]

It's in the air. Johan Jambor, a Polish Medic during WWI, admitted to a priest that:

...Hitler was injured in the abdomen and lost one testicle....


The evidence is largely there to make an informed conclusion.

There's definitely also a lot of suspicion swirling around it, just like everything else about Hitler. (Being a secret racial-Jew, a homosexual, mentally ill, a complete pawn dancing on puppet-strings for some sort of shadowy higher power, someone who kicked his dog around in private, etc. [I made the last one up:D].

Apparently the first quasi-authority to report the "missing testicle" story was a Soviet-Jew attached to one of the units that occupied Berlin in early May 1945 and entered the bunker. His name was Bezymenski. He allegedly performed an autopsy on Hitler's body, which from all details we know about Hitler's death was all wrong. (e.g. he reported that the body had "died of poison" and neglected to mention the shot in the head that we [and he] know took place). He also acts as if the body were intact, when we know it was burned after death. Years later, Bezymenski admitted the reports were falsified on orders from above.

The fact that this Jambor is a Polish Catholic makes this renewed claim suspicious, for the Poles too would have a proverbial axe to grind against Hitler (as Hitler would've reduced Poland's national land area, taking some of western Poland though possibly awarding Poland some eastern territory too). Also, why would someone "confess" this to a priest? (The apparent origin of the Jambor story- A Polish priest reported lately that Jambor had "confessed" this to him in the 1960s...wtf?).


British historian David Irving has done perhaps more deep research into 1930s-1940s European history than any other person alive (tens of thousands of hours in dark, damp archives across the world; countless interviews with surviving witnesses to history esp. on the German side). While poring through documents in the 1970s, Irving discovered the candid diaries of Hitler's personal doctor, Morell. [Irving was thereby the one to confirm the rumors of just how physically sick Hitler really was in the last 12 months of his life...now common knowledge but once a sort-of urban-legend like this story].

Presumably Hitler's personal doctor would have known about this, if any man on Earth had. The Morell diary reports lots of personal details (it revealed that Hitler did have sex with Eva Braun occasionally), but nothing about the one-testicle allegation.

[Beorn]

someone who kicked his dog around in private, etc. [I made the last one up:D].

Someone beat you to it. I have heard that bandied around by some in an attempt to belittle Hitler as a person.


Presumably Hitler's personal doctor would have known about this, if any man on Earth had. The Morell diary reports lots of personal details (it revealed that Hitler did have sex with Eva Braun occasionally), but nothing about the one-testicle allegation.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but is this the same doctor who said Hitler was extremely shy when it came to the more 'personal' examinations and never exposed himself?

Or perhaps I am thinking of another medical assistant to Hitler.

[Skandi]

Again does it matter? The evidence points to a injury caused during service to his country, not a genetic deformity so it wasn't against NS policy at all. To be honest does it matter if a right winger is gay? Even if your going to be pedantic, there is nothing he can do about his feelings, he was married, I don't know if he had children but if he did then that would have undermined any objection to his supposed sexuality.

[Beorn]

The evidence points to a injury caused during service to his country, not a genetic deformity so it wasn't against NS policy at all.

I understand that. It is only a continuation of the whole thread. :)


To be honest does it matter if a right winger is gay?

I'm not right-wing, but I would not vote or support a man who has homosexual tendencies for a myriad of reasons. One being he goes against the whole basis of my family values.

And yes, I recognise the hypocrisy of that assertion considering Haider - or any man who is Gay - had children.


I don't know if he had children but if he did then that would have undermined any objection to his supposed sexuality.

He did have children, but why would that "undermine any objections"?

[Skandi]

He did have children, but why would that "undermine any objections"?

Because as far as I can see the objections to gays are;

1 They undermine the "family" structure

2 They don't contribute to the "white" population

Now if a gay does breed, and bring up those children in a "normal" family where is the problem?

PS oh my is that a lot of inverted commas!

[Beorn]

Because as far as I can see the objections to gays are;

1 They undermine the "family" structure

2 They don't contribute to the "white" population


All nonsense, of course.

I have never said anything to confirm the above statements as my belief.



Now if a gay does breed, and bring up those children in a "normal" family where is the problem?


There isn't a problem.

[Skandi]

I never said YOU did just that that is the consensus of opinion in the right wing arena

We're probably arguing the same thing

[Lenny]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but is this the same doctor who said Hitler was extremely shy when it came to the more 'personal' examinations and never exposed himself?

Or perhaps I am thinking of another medical assistant to Hitler.Hmm, I must say I've never heard anything like that; it may be.