The Silent Scream of Asparagus

[Grumpy Cat]

Get ready for 'plant rights.'

You just knew it was coming: At the request of the Swiss government, an ethics panel has weighed in on the "dignity" of plants and opined that the arbitrary killing of flora is morally wrong. This is no hoax. The concept of what could be called "plant rights" is being seriously debated.

Read more here (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/065njdoe.asp?pg=1) :eek:

[Raskolnikov]

Well, I did name myself a tree.

[Beorn]

What's wrong with this? Roald Dahl and many Englishman are way ahead of you degenerates.


zZYiZ81X-uk

[Piparskeggr]

Friend of mine in high school won a Westinghouse scholarship by showing that plants do have galvanic responses to certain stimuli...

My thoughts?

Something must die for me to live; plant or animal. Better them than me.

[Psychonaut]

Something must die for me to live; plant or animal. Better them than me.

Aye, even as something of a hylozoist who believes that all things participate in experience, that descriptive acknowledgement of the ubiquity of prehension doesn't translate into a normative prohibition on the extinguishing of other subjects so that I might thrive. The one group I know of that tries to seriously live the "harm none" ethos, the Jains, are effectively crippled because of it—with some of the nuttier Jaina mystics claiming to live on sunlight alone. :D

[Loki]

I don't agree with the line this article is taking. It even comes out attacking animal rights:



The animal rights movement grew out of the same poisonous soil. Animal rights ideology holds that moral worth comes with sentience or the ability to suffer.


Are they suggesting that animals cannot suffer or feel pain? In my opinion there is nothing wrong with animal rights, and it is a cultured human being who can appreciate that humans are not the only species who have feelings.

I disagree with the Christian value that degrades animals and plants to be just some lifeless commodities. I also think someone who just goes about destroying plants for the sake of it has issues.

[Eldritch]

I thought of the Roald Dahl short story immediately. :rolleyes:

There's a problem, though, and it is that people have to eat something.

[Troll's Puzzle]

it reminds me of the trailblazing Boulder Hill Vegetable Rights Association (http://www4.ncsu.edu/~n51ls801/PHI340mirror/bvra.html) :wink


You slaughter a tomato by killing it. It is a living thing. If you cut it off its vine it dies. Sure that will happen naturally someday on its own, but the same can be said of human beings, and that does not justify our ending anyone's life a little early.

If you require that a life form have a "mind" before you respect it or acknowledge it, then perhaps you should take a stroll through a forest or a greenhouse and see if you can sense the life forces in the living plants.

They may not be a mind, they may be closer to spirit, but they are there. Their reactions have been measured with scientific instruments. They react to music. They react to people being nice to them, talking to them, stroking them. They react dramatically to injury of a fellow plant. They even repeat this reaction when the injurer returns to the room, but not for others, so they have the ability to recognize an individual and remember events. Not with a mind, perhaps, but with whatever nature gave them. They do have a nervous system.

If you require a mind to be present before killing becomes a moral issue, then there are some people who might be a little nervous being around you.

The Boulder Vegetable Rights Association has held meetings, discussed these issues, disseminated information to the public through boulder.general and has been the subject of an article in the Daily Camera. The BVRA promotes awareness that vegetables are living things, and that killing them is cruel. Past posts available upon request. Join the BVRA ... as we continue to spread our message of tolerance towards flora everywhere.

This Monday, 2/1/95, we will be staging a day long protest march outside Healthy Habits restaurant in Boulder, and Alfalfa's in Boulder, in an attempt to dissuade them and their customers from their floricidal ways. We have massed dozens of plant tolerant protesters, and we are all willing to go to jail (or worse...) in order to stop the wanton destruction and killing that takes place so that overpaid yuppie scum can enjoy salads, and rip the hearts from live artichokes! We are sick of seeing otherwise healthy young vegetables ripped from the ground and steamed alive with a little butter. This type of vegist practice MUST STOP!

Our government does not condone the killing of humans for food, yet we subsidize the killing fields of Kansas and California, paying sick, twisted merchants of death to breed "hybrid" vegetables solely for the purpose of prematurely ending their lives. We are appalled at Dachau, yet in love with Dekalb. We were sickened by Cambodia, yet devour Corn Flakes. We are sickened by dozens of people being burned to death in Waco, but how many of us will, this very day, trap hundreds of unborn corn kernels into a microwave oven and burn them until they explode? We will use force, if necessary, in order to save the lives of pre-born potatoes (the so-called "new potatoes"), infant peas & carrots, and other unborn vegetables that are aborted daily. We make no bones about our dedication to this cause.

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't agree with the line this article is taking. It even comes out attacking animal rights:



Are they suggesting that animals cannot suffer or feel pain? In my opinion there is nothing wrong with animal rights, and it is a cultured human being who can appreciate that humans are not the only species who have feelings.

I disagree with the Christian value that degrades animals and plants to be just some lifeless commodities. I also think someone who just goes about destroying plants for the sake of it has issues.

The problem is when the activists take it beyond logic.

Humans have to eat, simple as that. Not just that, but humans are predators. Vegetarianism is unnatural for our species. We, as a species are an apex predator, simple as that. If we were meant to be vegetarians, our appendix would be larger than it is and we'd have digestive enzymes to break down cellulose and sucralose, which we don't.

[Loki]

The problem is when the activists take it beyond logic.

Humans have to eat, simple as that. Not just that, but humans are predators. Vegetarianism is unnatural for our species. We, as a species are an apex predator, simple as that. If we were meant to be vegetarians, our appendix would be larger than it is and we'd have digestive enzymes to break down cellulose and sucralose, which we don't.

Yes that is the harsh reality of life. Humans weren't really "supposed" to evolve this much, as to have a conscience. But fact is, humans are not really that different from animals.

[Grumpy Cat]

Yes that is the harsh reality of life. Humans weren't really "supposed" to evolve this much, as to have a conscience. But fact is, humans are not really that different from animals.

No, we are not. In fact, we are animals. And as animals, we have a place in nature. Our place in nature just happens to be at the top of the food chain.

Even the Native Americans, who these types idolize so much, realized this. In the religion of the tribe around here, the Mi'kmaq, they believe that animals do have souls, but they still eat them - they just said a prayer for the animal before they ate it.

[Urrobbers]

I purpose we eat a mixture of water,rocks and dirt.(my only problem is how to package it)

[Loki]

I don't see the article mentioning that eating plants is wrong - but have just skimmed over it.

[Urrobbers]

On second thought I think we should stand outside in the sun for no more than 15 to 16 mins a day to nurish our bodies off the sun's vast power. Friends don't let friends get drunk off of sun power.

[Nglund]

Oh! You must love the Swiss, even their wars are fought according to humanitarian principles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderbund_war).

[Magister Eckhart]

When you invent idioicies like "human rights", this sort of nonsense is just inevitable.

[anonymaus]

At the request of the Swiss government, an ethics panel has weighed in on the "dignity" of plants and opined that the arbitrary killing of flora is morally wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/Nyf2d.jpg

[Raskolnikov]

All great developments. Shows how crazy we are now.

[Grumpy Cat]

All great developments. Shows how crazy we are now.

I've read a few of these things coming out of Switzerland. Some people in that country are so "open-minded" their brains have fallen out. :rolleyes:

[Loki]

When you invent idioicies like "human rights", this sort of nonsense is just inevitable.

Human rights is a concept that affirms our civilization. I would not want to be without it. What is the alternative?

[Grumpy Cat]

Human rights is a concept that affirms our civilization. I would not want to be without it. What is the alternative?

Sharia Law. Which is strikingly similar to the system quite a few of the so-called "European preservationalists" on this forum want.

[Raskolnikov]

The basis in law actually makes Sharia and liberalism quite similar, as much as the devolved 'Fascism' of modern people is, ban this and ban that.

Sharia isn't hell. It's like this liberal order: boring and with the air stale.

[Grumpy Cat]

The basis in law actually makes Sharia and liberalism quite similar, as much as the devolved 'Fascism' of modern people is, ban this and ban that.

Sharia isn't hell. It's like this liberal order: boring and with the air stale.

There are some people on this forum who disrespect women and even advocate hitting them. That is not how a decent white person should act.

Oh yeah, and I guess I am a "feminist" for not wanting to become a second-class citizen like they want me to. :coffee:

[Raskolnikov]

Oh yeah, and I guess I am a "feminist" for not wanting to become a second-class citizen like they want me to.
Female citizenship and further legal equalisation with men is the definition of feminism.

Wagnerian said something about hitting women; one doubts he will ever do this. This is the fear of the American woman according to the media; on the other hand would be the American male who believes the hype about all women being male-hating feminists. They are self-fulfilling prophecies - sexes afraid of each other.

[Magister Eckhart]

Human rights is a concept that affirms our civilization. I would not want to be without it. What is the alternative?


The world has heard enough of the so-called "rights of man." Let it hear something of the rights of God.

Entitlement granted by the notion of "human rights" is little more than a means to distance us further from spiritual truths of our existence. Men are entitled to nothing; a man must earn everything. At the root of all sloth, all arrogance, all vice and decadence is the notion of "rights". It doesn't take a Catholic cleric to see it either.

[Loki]

Entitlement granted by the notion of "human rights" is little more than a means to distance us further from spiritual truths of our existence. Men are entitled to nothing; a man must earn everything. At the root of all sloth, all arrogance, all vice and decadence is the notion of "rights". It doesn't take a Catholic cleric to see it either.

Why does God need rights then? Oh, I know ... in order to protect him against blasphemers who accuse him of not existing!

[poiuytrewq0987]

OK, so according to those guys we now can't eat meat or plants... I guess I have to end it now for being so horrible to animals and plants! Mass suicide here we go guys!

[Raskolnikov]

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/934/800pxderfrauenderteuton.jpg


Mass suicide of Teuton women in the face of Roman slavery

During the late 2nd century BC, the Teutons are recorded as marching south through Gaul along with their neighbors, the Cimbri, and attacking Roman Italy. After several victories for the invading armies, the Cimbri and Teutones were then defeated by Gaius Marius in 102 BC at the Battle of Aquae Sextiae (near present-day Aix-en-Provence). Their King, Teutobod, was taken in irons. The captured women committed mass suicide, which passed into Roman legends of Germanic heroism: by the conditions of the surrender three hundred of their married women were to be handed over to the Romans. When the Teuton matrons heard of this stipulation, they first begged the consul that they might be set apart to minister in the temples of Ceres and Venus; then, when they failed to obtain their request and were removed by the lictors, they slew their children and next morning were all found dead in each other's arms having strangled themselves in the night[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutons#Mass_suicide_of_Teuton_women_in_the_face_o f_Roman_slavery




Forrester incidentally just ate and inhaled stone.

[Crossbow]

I've read a few of these things coming out of Switzerland. Some people in that country are so "open-minded" their brains have fallen out. :rolleyes:

This could have originated from the Netherlands as well, easily. I think people in the so-called 'developed' countries have too much to think and too little to do. And what about insect rights, don't they have the right to infect you with some fatal disease, without you preventing them doing it, out of respect?

[Adalwolf]

This group surpasses PETA in lunacy. There is a reason why humans are at the top of the food chain...

[Loddfafner]

Only Aspergies with Alzheimers worry about the screaming of asparagus.

[Piparskeggr]

I can see it now - "Hannibal Lecter - Silence of the Asparagus," in which our dear doctor becomes revered for his anthropo-centered cuisine.

[Smaland]

I don't agree with the line this article is taking. It even comes out attacking animal rights:



Are they suggesting that animals cannot suffer or feel pain? In my opinion there is nothing wrong with animal rights, and it is a cultured human being who can appreciate that humans are not the only species who have feelings.

I disagree with the Christian value that degrades animals and plants to be just some lifeless commodities. I also think someone who just goes about destroying plants for the sake of it has issues.


A righteous man has regard for the life of his beast,
But the compassion of the wicked is cruel.
Proverbs 12:10, New American Standard Bible (NASB)

[Magister Eckhart]

Proverbs 12:10, New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Indeed, no Christian can treat anything with life as an object, since God's being is incorporated into all aspects of creation. Any who do treat life as objects or not possessing some part of God, and therefore not being at their core blessed in some way, and claims to be Christian is little more than a heretic, and a rather blasphemous one at that.

I will readily admit that many evangelical Christians do hold these views, but after all they're all heretics, so they're not real Christians.

At any rate, viewing beasts as "lifeless commodities" is Godless and liberal, not Christian. This is typical of atheists that they seek to find Christianity in the evils of their own creation.

[Psychonaut]

At any rate, viewing beasts as "lifeless commodities" is...liberal...

Aye, I think the attitude's proliferation among Christians ans atheists alike owes far more to the ontological bifurcation between man and nature that is part and parcel of Enlightenment humanism.

[anonymaus]

I will readily admit that many Baptists do hold these views, but after all they're all heretics, so they're not real Christians.

Herpin' your derp all the way back to 1801.

[Magister Eckhart]

Herpin' your derp all the way back to 1801.

Well, they are technically heretics, and therefore not real Christians. Their theology (or I should say lack there of) pretty much confirms that.

Also, Anabaptism originated in the 17th century and Protestants are still considered heretics by the Church (though after Vatican I the language started to be toned down a little), so I'm not sure where you got the arbitrary date of 1801 from.


Aye, I think the attitude's proliferation among Christians ans atheists alike owes far more to the ontological bifurcation between man and nature that is part and parcel of Enlightenment humanism.

Indeed. And I realised that in the original quote, it actually would be more appropriate to say "atheists seek to find religion" rather than "Christianity", because the truth is that atheists are starting to realise that their refutations of Christianity are pretty much meaningless to the believers from the East and to polytheists in general (though if you ask me, most pagans and even Germanic heathens are little more than atheists who want to make a fetish of blood and ancestry).

[Loki]

Well, they are technically heretics, and therefore not real Christians. Their theology (or I should say lack there of) pretty much confirms that.


I accept that you have a bone to pick with your "heretical" brethren, but - in context of this thread - is there any evidence that Protestants have less of a regard for nature than Catholics do? If so I wasn't aware of it, would be news to me.

[Magister Eckhart]

I accept that you have a bone to pick with your "heretical" brethren, but - in context of this thread - is there any evidence that Protestants have less of a regard for nature than Catholics do? If so I wasn't aware of it, would be news to me.

Watch that "brethren" stuff; being an apostate and being a heretic are very different things.

At any rate, yes actually the emphasis placed on Genesis and "dominion over the earth" is largely Calvinist protestant in origin (thought not from Calvin himself). Almost all modern liberals who are anti-environmentalist belong to a radical evangelical sect, and those who don't seem largely to be Calvinists. James Watt is a good example of this (see his article "Ours is the Earth").

Also, of course, there's the well-established path from protestantism into capitalism described by Weber ("Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism") which accounts for (again) a Calvinist or Anabaptist source for liberal disregard for all things except utilitarian goods.