Peloponnesian Greek GEDMatch results -- they are not like south Italians and Aegean islands

[Sikeliot]

Sorry to cybernautic but they're not... you can save all of your "Campanians are like a mixture of Peloponnesians and Central Europeans" nonsense because every one of these people plots NORTH of Aegean islanders, South Italians, and even Abruzzese.


#1:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 22.39
2 Atlantic 18.57
3 West_Med 16.66
4 West_Asian 15.93
5 Baltic 12.63
6 Eastern_Euro 7.64
7 North_Sea 3.62
8 Red_Sea 1.84
9 Oceanian 0.48
10 Northeast_African 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 6.08
2 Central_Greek 10.62
3 Italian_Abruzzo 10.86
4 Bulgarian 11.23
5 Greek_Thessaly 11.69
6 West_Sicilian 11.75
7 East_Sicilian 11.81
8 South_Italian 12.54
9 Ashkenazi 12.87
10 Tuscan 13.15
11 Romanian 14.35
12 Sephardic_Jewish 16.8
13 North_Italian 17.21
14 Italian_Jewish 17.35
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.67
16 Serbian 18.12
17 Tunisian_Jewish 20.55
18 Turkish 21.08
19 Cyprian 21.57
20 Moldavian 22.46

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.6% Greek + 6.4% North_Ossetian @ 5.56
2 93.4% Greek + 6.6% Adygei @ 5.59
3 93.2% Greek + 6.8% Kabardin @ 5.6
4 93.4% Greek + 6.6% Balkar @ 5.6
5 94.6% Greek + 5.4% Abhkasian @ 5.62
6 94.5% Greek + 5.5% Georgian @ 5.68
7 94.4% Greek + 5.6% Ossetian @ 5.7
8 94.4% Greek + 5.6% Chechen @ 5.71
9 94.3% Greek + 5.7% Kumyk @ 5.81
10 95.3% Greek + 4.7% Lezgin @ 5.85
11 95.5% Greek + 4.5% Nogay @ 5.91
12 93.6% Greek + 6.4% Turkish @ 5.92
13 95.5% Greek + 4.5% Kurdish @ 5.93
14 95.4% Greek + 4.6% Azeri @ 5.96
15 96.9% Greek + 3.1% Tabassaran @ 5.97
16 96.6% Greek + 3.4% Iranian @ 5.99
17 96.7% Greek + 3.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 6
18 97.7% Greek + 2.3% Balochi @ 6
19 96.8% Greek + 3.2% Armenian @ 6
20 97.8% Greek + 2.2% Brahui @ 6.01



#2:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.14
2 Atlantic 18.55
3 West_Med 13.37
4 West_Asian 13.08
5 North_Sea 10.75
6 Baltic 9.54
7 Red_Sea 6.32
8 Eastern_Euro 5.83
9 Southeast_Asian 1.16
10 Oceanian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 6.42
2 Greek 6.54
3 Tuscan 8.3
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.35
5 West_Sicilian 8.42
6 Central_Greek 8.61
7 East_Sicilian 9
8 Ashkenazi 9.1
9 Bulgarian 9.39
10 Romanian 11.05
11 South_Italian 11.43
12 North_Italian 12.99
13 Serbian 14
14 Sephardic_Jewish 15.06
15 Italian_Jewish 15.13
16 Algerian_Jewish 16.55
17 Spanish_Extremadura 19.11
18 Tunisian_Jewish 19.31
19 Spanish_Murcia 19.51
20 Portuguese 19.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.97
2 85.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.98
3 85.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.8% Belorussian @ 3.02
4 86.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 13.4% Lithuanian @ 3.16
5 84.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.17
6 84.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.18
7 84.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.4% Polish @ 3.32
8 57.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 42.7% Austrian @ 3.33
9 79.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.4% Croatian @ 3.45
10 85.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.1% La_Brana-1 @ 3.48
11 83.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 16.2% South_Polish @ 3.48
12 86.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 13.9% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.52
13 86.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 13.2% Erzya @ 3.62
14 78.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 21.2% Austrian @ 3.63
15 62.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 37.9% Bulgarian @ 3.64
16 86.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 13.1% Estonian @ 3.65
17 84% Italian_Abruzzo + 16% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.69
18 66.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 33.5% Romanian @ 3.72
19 84.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.5% Ukrainian @ 3.73
20 58.4% Romanian + 41.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.78



#3:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.59
2 West_Med 17.5
3 West_Asian 17.04
4 Atlantic 13.78
5 North_Sea 13.48
6 Baltic 9
7 Eastern_Euro 4
8 Red_Sea 3.35
9 Oceanian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.48
2 Central_Greek 6.04
3 Italian_Abruzzo 6.04
4 Greek 6.81
5 East_Sicilian 7.53
6 Tuscan 8.82
7 Ashkenazi 9.05
8 South_Italian 9.48
9 West_Sicilian 9.76
10 Bulgarian 10.88
11 Romanian 12.53
12 North_Italian 13.92
13 Italian_Jewish 14.68
14 Sephardic_Jewish 15.64
15 Serbian 16.08
16 Algerian_Jewish 16.52
17 Tunisian_Jewish 19.84
18 Turkish 19.92
19 Libyan_Jewish 20.77
20 Cyprian 20.77

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.2% Central_Greek + 15.8% East_German @ 3.53
2 90.6% Greek_Thessaly + 9.4% Abhkasian @ 3.67
3 89.7% Greek_Thessaly + 10.3% Georgian @ 3.67
4 71.6% Central_Greek + 28.4% Romanian @ 3.73
5 84.4% Central_Greek + 15.6% West_German @ 3.75
6 89.6% Greek_Thessaly + 10.4% Ossetian @ 3.77
7 82.9% Central_Greek + 17.1% Hungarian @ 3.78
8 87.9% Central_Greek + 12.1% Swedish @ 3.78
9 86.5% Central_Greek + 13.5% North_German @ 3.79
10 88% Central_Greek + 12% Norwegian @ 3.8
11 87.5% Central_Greek + 12.5% North_Dutch @ 3.82
12 86.9% Central_Greek + 13.1% Southwest_English @ 3.83
13 84.8% Central_Greek + 15.2% South_Dutch @ 3.84
14 88.5% Central_Greek + 11.5% West_Norwegian @ 3.84
15 54.4% Greek_Thessaly + 45.6% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.86
16 88.3% Central_Greek + 11.7% Orcadian @ 3.92
17 90.1% Greek_Thessaly + 9.9% North_Ossetian @ 3.92
18 82.1% Central_Greek + 17.9% Moldavian @ 3.92
19 87.7% Central_Greek + 12.3% Danish @ 3.93
20 88.3% Central_Greek + 11.7% North_Swedish @ 3.96



#4:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.29
2 North_Sea 16.78
3 West_Med 16.53
4 West_Asian 12.74
5 Atlantic 11.81
6 Baltic 7.97
7 Eastern_Euro 4.08
8 Red_Sea 3.85
9 Oceanian 0.64
10 Siberian 0.57
11 South_Asian 0.47
12 Northeast_African 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 4.64
2 Central_Greek 7.01
3 Italian_Abruzzo 7.16
4 East_Sicilian 7.73
5 Ashkenazi 7.95
6 Greek 8.65
7 Tuscan 9.03
8 West_Sicilian 9.41
9 South_Italian 9.92
10 Bulgarian 12.37
11 Italian_Jewish 13.24
12 Romanian 13.42
13 North_Italian 14.12
14 Sephardic_Jewish 15.08
15 Algerian_Jewish 15.38
16 Serbian 16.04
17 Libyan_Jewish 18.49
18 Tunisian_Jewish 18.89
19 Portuguese 20.55
20 Cyprian 20.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.1% Central_Greek + 19.9% West_German @ 3.55
2 85.2% Central_Greek + 14.8% West_Norwegian @ 3.55
3 54.5% Cyprian + 45.5% West_German @ 3.61
4 84.7% Central_Greek + 15.3% Norwegian @ 3.64
5 84.7% Central_Greek + 15.3% Swedish @ 3.65
6 85% Central_Greek + 15% North_Swedish @ 3.83
7 70.4% Greek_Thessaly + 29.6% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.89
8 78.6% South_Italian + 21.4% North_Swedish @ 4.01
9 84.5% Greek_Thessaly + 15.5% Italian_Jewish @ 4.02
10 78.5% South_Italian + 21.5% Swedish @ 4.1
11 89.3% Greek_Thessaly + 10.7% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.11
12 84.9% Central_Greek + 15.1% North_Dutch @ 4.11
13 85.6% Central_Greek + 14.4% Orcadian @ 4.17
14 78.6% South_Italian + 21.4% Norwegian @ 4.19
15 73.9% Greek_Thessaly + 26.1% Central_Greek @ 4.2
16 93.4% Greek_Thessaly + 6.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.2
17 76.7% Greek_Thessaly + 23.3% East_Sicilian @ 4.2
18 82.4% Greek_Thessaly + 17.6% South_Italian @ 4.23
19 85.1% Central_Greek + 14.9% Danish @ 4.24
20 79% East_Sicilian + 21% West_German @ 4.24



#5:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.8
2 West_Asian 14.59
3 West_Med 13.47
4 Baltic 13.04
5 Atlantic 12.3
6 North_Sea 11.36
7 Red_Sea 4.46
8 Eastern_Euro 3.11
9 Northeast_African 1.41
10 Oceanian 0.24
11 Amerindian 0.12
12 Southeast_Asian 0.08
13 Siberian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 6.38
2 Central_Greek 6.67
3 Greek 6.8
4 Ashkenazi 7.39
5 East_Sicilian 7.45
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.35
7 South_Italian 9.35
8 West_Sicilian 10.52
9 Bulgarian 11.13
10 Tuscan 12.32
11 Romanian 13.3
12 Italian_Jewish 13.45
13 Sephardic_Jewish 14.05
14 Algerian_Jewish 14.94
15 Tunisian_Jewish 17.2
16 Serbian 17.2
17 North_Italian 17.75
18 Libyan_Jewish 18.32
19 Cyprian 18.55
20 Turkish 19.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.4% South_Italian + 18.6% Lithuanian @ 3.91
2 70.9% Bulgarian + 29.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.92
3 70% Bulgarian + 30% Samaritan @ 4.02
4 58.9% Romanian + 41.1% Cyprian @ 4.1
5 71.4% Bulgarian + 28.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.11
6 56.5% Cyprian + 43.5% Hungarian @ 4.15
7 63.7% Bulgarian + 36.3% Cyprian @ 4.23
8 66.1% Bulgarian + 33.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.24
9 79.3% South_Italian + 20.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.25
10 87.9% Central_Greek + 12.1% Lithuanian @ 4.25
11 66.8% Romanian + 33.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.3
12 79.7% South_Italian + 20.3% Southwest_Russian @ 4.33
13 65.8% Romanian + 34.2% Samaritan @ 4.33
14 80.5% South_Italian + 19.5% Belorussian @ 4.33
15 77.7% South_Italian + 22.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.38
16 81.7% South_Italian + 18.3% Estonian @ 4.46
17 79.7% South_Italian + 20.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.51
18 86.3% East_Sicilian + 13.7% Lithuanian @ 4.52
19 87.5% Central_Greek + 12.5% Belorussian @ 4.53
20 81.8% Greek_Thessaly + 18.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.59

[Sikeliot]

What I see in these, is they are about 20% shifted north compared to Aegean islands and southern Italians (not necessarily all NE European, as it can be modeled with Swedish also for one of these people), which is less than some other mainland regions.

[arkas]

This makes me curious to see what my dad's results would be like.

[Sikeliot]

This makes me curious to see what my dad's results would be like.

Probably similar to these, I would say.

[Lauχum]

#5 is south shifted compared to the rest. Is there anything unique/noteworthy about their location?

[Scholarios]

#5 is south shifted compared to the rest. Is there anything unique/noteworthy about their location?

Looks Maniote... but that's just a guess.

[Freeroostah]

Interesting

This shows how much unrelated we are with the spaghetti people

Here some personal results for the sake of our Northmen ancestors :vikingship:

1 73.4% Central_Greek + 26.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.45
2 74.3% Central_Greek + 25.7% Ukrainian @ 2.46
3 64.5% Central_Greek + 35.5% Moldavian @ 2.48
4 79.7% Central_Greek + 20.3% Lithuanian @ 2.48
5 77.1% Central_Greek + 22.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
6 77.4% Central_Greek + 22.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.52
7 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Croatian @ 2.58
8 76.3% Central_Greek + 23.7% Polish @ 2.63

[Tauromachos]

Interesting

This shows how much unrelated we are with the spaghetti people

Here some personal results for the sake of our Northmen ancestors :vikingship:

1 73.4% Central_Greek + 26.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.45
2 74.3% Central_Greek + 25.7% Ukrainian @ 2.46
3 64.5% Central_Greek + 35.5% Moldavian @ 2.48
4 79.7% Central_Greek + 20.3% Lithuanian @ 2.48
5 77.1% Central_Greek + 22.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
6 77.4% Central_Greek + 22.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.52
7 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Croatian @ 2.58
8 76.3% Central_Greek + 23.7% Polish @ 2.63

This is all bullshit

By the way he claims that the results he posts are not related to Aegean Greeks and South Italians what an idiot when their top
10 populations are consist of Central Greek,Abruzzo and Jewish even except Bulgarian in betweent those.


Central Greek by the way includes Aegean Islands"Cyclades" to let everyone here know.
First result for example revisited looked on from a different angle
1 Greek 6.08
2 Central_Greek 10.62
3 Italian_Abruzzo 10.86
4 Bulgarian 11.23
5 Greek_Thessaly 11.69
6 West_Sicilian 11.75
7 East_Sicilian 11.81
8 South_Italian 12.54
9 Ashkenazi 12.87
10 Tuscan 13.15
11 Romanian 14.35
12 Sephardic_Jewish 16.8
13 North_Italian 17.21
14 Italian_Jewish 17.35
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.67
16 Serbian 18.12
17 Tunisian_Jewish 20.55
18 Turkish 21.08
19 Cyprian 21.57
20 Moldavian 22.46

[Sikeliot]

#5 is south shifted compared to the rest. Is there anything unique/noteworthy about their location?

Maniot, yes.

[Sikeliot]

This is all bullshit

By the way he claims that the results he posts are not related to Aegean Greeks and South Italians what an idiot when their top
10 populations are consist of Central Greek,Abruzzo and Jewish even except Bulgarian in betweent those.


Central Greek by the way includes Aegean Islands"Cyclades" to let everyone here know.
First result for example revisited looked on from a different angle
1 Greek 6.08
2 Central_Greek 10.62
3 Italian_Abruzzo 10.86
4 Bulgarian 11.23
5 Greek_Thessaly 11.69
6 West_Sicilian 11.75
7 East_Sicilian 11.81
8 South_Italian 12.54
9 Ashkenazi 12.87
10 Tuscan 13.15
11 Romanian 14.35
12 Sephardic_Jewish 16.8
13 North_Italian 17.21
14 Italian_Jewish 17.35
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.67
16 Serbian 18.12
17 Tunisian_Jewish 20.55
18 Turkish 21.08
19 Cyprian 21.57
20 Moldavian 22.46


Of course they're related to Italians and Aegean islanders but they are different too. Related doesn't mean identical!

[Sikeliot]

Interesting

This shows how much unrelated we are with the spaghetti people

Here some personal results for the sake of our Northmen ancestors :vikingship:

1 73.4% Central_Greek + 26.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.45
2 74.3% Central_Greek + 25.7% Ukrainian @ 2.46
3 64.5% Central_Greek + 35.5% Moldavian @ 2.48
4 79.7% Central_Greek + 20.3% Lithuanian @ 2.48
5 77.1% Central_Greek + 22.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.49
6 77.4% Central_Greek + 22.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.52
7 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Croatian @ 2.58
8 76.3% Central_Greek + 23.7% Polish @ 2.63


I thought I remembered you being West plotting kind of like a Tuscan. Maybe I was remembering incorrectly.

[Tauromachos]

Of course they're related to Italians and Aegean islanders but they are different too. Related doesn't mean identical!

They are clearly closer to Aegean Islanders and South Italians than to generic Balkan people.

Or are there any Non Greek Balkanites who get Central Greek,Abruzzo and so much Siclian and Jewish in their top 10
?

I suppose there are not
The only exception might be some Albanians
But i would guess even Albanian results would be a bit more Northern shifted in the sense they would get more North Italian than Sicilian and so on..

And you can't always emphasize the difference between Mainland Greeks like these and Sicilians and Aegeans without
emphasizing the difference these Mainland Greeks have to Non Greek Balkanites as well

Thats not fair and not objetive at all

[Sikeliot]

They are clearly closer to Aegean Islanders and South Italians than to generic Balkan people.

Or are there any Non Greek Balkanites who get Central Greek,Abruzzo and so much Siclian and Jewish in their top 10
?

I suppose there are not
The only exception might be some Albanians
But i would guess even Albanian results would be a bit more Northern shifted in the sense they would get more North Italian than Sicilian and so on..

And you can't always emphasize the difference between Mainland Greeks like these and Sicilians and Aegeans without
emphasizing the difference these Mainland Greeks have to Non Greek Balkanites as well

Thats not fair and not objetive at all

I never said they were identical to Balkan Slavs, you on the other hand have said they are identical to Aegean islanders and Sicilians. That is the difference.

[Tauromachos]

I never said they were identical to Balkan Slavs, you on the other hand have said they are identical to Aegean islanders and Sicilians. That is the difference.

No i didn't say they are identical i said they are closer to them then to arbitrary Balkan people which should be like that since Aegean Islanders and them
they are both Greek people and have common shared history,language ,you try to present them like people from different planets .

Second thing i said is that there are some of the Peloponnesians who have Slavic admixture for example in Messinia or Arcadia about 8-10% but their Non Slavic part of
Ancestry is most similar to that of Sicilians as concluded in the Stamatoyannopoulos paper

[Sikeliot]

Second thing i said is that there are some of the Peloponnesians who have Slavic admixture for example in Messinia or Arcadia about 8-10% but their Non Slavic part of
Ancestry is most similar to that of Sicilians as concluded in the Stamoyannopoulos paper

The only Peloponnesians with no Slavic input are Tsakonians and a small subset of Maniots. And they still have more NE European than Sicily and most Cretans (the closest people to these Maniots would be Cyclades islanders).

[Tauromachos]

The only Peloponnesians with no Slavic input are Tsakonians and a small subset of Maniots. And they still have more NE European than Sicily and most Cretans (the closest people to these Maniots would be Cyclades islanders).

I thought i was clear i didn't talked about Tsakonians and Maniots neither about Cretans

I talked about groups among the rest of Peloponnesians who have Slavic shared ancestry like 8 or 10% on average but the Non Slavic part of their
DNA resembles that of Sicilians and other Italians what is so difficult to understand about that.

Also what you said about Maniots is not true its not a small subrgroup of Maniots but all real or full Maniots have almost no shared
ancestry with Slavs,when we say Maniots we mean people from Deep Mani"Inner Mani" not general Laconians of course today alot of Maniots
are mixed with other Laconians as well but full natives from Mani are genetically an entirely different population from anything Slavic

[kleenex]

On one calculator I was modeled as 80% South Italian and 20% Polish which is pretty typical for a Peloponnesian Greek. Genetically Peloponnesians maybe closest to Molise or a Central Italian population because of the stronger West but collaterally weaker NE pull. I agree Central Italian's northern shift is different from the Peloponnesians NE shift but the composite results are pretty close.

[Sikeliot]

I talked about groups among the rest of Peloponnesians who have Slavic shared ancestry like 8 or 10% on average but the Non Slavic part of their
DNA resembles that of Sicilians and other Italians what is so difficult to understand about that.


They are still missing the heavier Levantine ancestry and SW Asian/North African.

[Tauromachos]

They are still missing the heavier Levantine ancestry and SW Asian/North African.

:picard2:

There Non Slavic part of ancestry resembles that of Sicilians to a large extend.

And for that matter Aegean Islanders as well

Whats difficult understand?

[Sikeliot]

:picard2:

There Non Slavic part of ancestry resembles that of Sicilians to a large extend.

And for that matter Aegean Islanders as well

Whats difficult understand?



What is it YOU are not understanding -- even if you remove all the Slavic from Peloponnesians there will still not be Levantine ancestry to the same extent as in Sicily or Crete.

[kleenex]

:picard2:

There Non Slavic part of ancestry resembles that of Sicilians to a large extend.

And for that matter Aegean Islanders as well

Whats difficult understand?

On this calc I get 70% South Italian and 30% Austrian. How is that not significantly different from an Aegean Islander?

[kleenex]

Let's compare Aegean Island results to Peloponnesian results so you can see the difference.

[Tauromachos]

Let's compare Aegean Island results to Peloponnesian results so you can see the difference.

I alread did that for myself here https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?239556-gedmatch-quot-Mainlander-quot-South-West-Peloponnese-quot-to-Islander-quot-Dodecanese-quot

Their West Asian,SW Asian and West Med doesn't differ much not even more than 5% from what i remember.

Their biggest difference was indeed the NE Euro but also that not more than 10% and both didn't had more than 20% of this.

No i ask you in reward lets compare Bulgarian,Romanian or West Balkan results to these Peloponnesian results and see how different
they are.

I would say for that matter even Albanian results are different from these Peloponnesians.

Albanians don't get that much South Italian and Jewish like the Peloponnesians they get more North Italian instead from what i remember

You can look yourself at the link or simply look here
Differences in their SW Euro,West Asian and NE Euro components
SW Euro: Mainlander>Islander but only 0.46%
West Asian: Islander>Mainlander 4,52%
NE Euro:Mainlander>Islander 8.43%

[kleenex]

I alread did that for myself here https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?239556-gedmatch-quot-Mainlander-quot-South-West-Peloponnese-quot-to-Islander-quot-Dodecanese-quot

Their West Asian,SW Asian and West Med doesn't differ much not even more than 5% from what i remember.

There biggest difference was indeed the NE Euro but also that not more than 10% and both didn't had more than 20% of this.

No i ask you in reward lets compare Bulgarian,Romanian or West Balkan results to these Peloponnesian results and see how different
they are.

I would say for that matter even Albanian results are different from these Peloponnesians.

Albanians don't get that much South Italian and Jewish like the Peloponnesians they get more North Italian instead from what i remember

You can look yourself at the link or simply look here
Differences in their SW Euro,West Asian and NE Euro components
SW Euro: Mainlander>Islander but only 0.46%
West Asian: Islander>Mainlander 4,52%
NE Euro:Mainlander>Islander 8.43%

He's posting Eurogenes K15. Here are my top 10:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 22.88
2 Atlantic 19.64
3 West_Asian 15.07
4 West_Med 14.34
5 Baltic 11.57
6 North_Sea 10.11
7 Red_Sea 3.81
8 Eastern_Euro 2.37
9 Amerindian 0.22

[Sikeliot]

He's posting Eurogenes K15. Here are my top 10:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 22.88
2 Atlantic 19.64
3 West_Asian 15.07
4 West_Med 14.34
5 Baltic 11.57
6 North_Sea 10.11
7 Red_Sea 3.81
8 Eastern_Euro 2.37
9 Amerindian 0.22


If you are typical for Peloponnesian, then most Sicilians and Cretans are 6-10% more East Med, 2-4% more Red Sea than you.

[kleenex]

If you are typical for Peloponnesian, then most Sicilians and Cretans are 6-10% more East Med, 2-4% more Red Sea than you.

I believe I am based on the other results I've seen.

[kleenex]

If you are typical for Peloponnesian, then most Sicilians and Cretans are 6-10% more East Med, 2-4% more Red Sea than you.

Which is no big surprise.

[kleenex]

On this calc I get 70% South Italian and 30% Austrian. How is that not significantly different from an Aegean Islander?

Why did you just thumbs down me for this? It's note even an opinion for christsakes.

[kleenex]

@ Cybernautic; if something or someone doesn't fit your agenda you "thumbs down them." I definitely see a pattern.

[Tauromachos]

On this calc I get 70% South Italian and 30% Austrian. How is that not significantly different from an Aegean Islander?

Don't worry i will tell all my friends in the Aegeans Islands that whenever they see you they shouldn't speak Greek to you or
treat you as kin but as a German or White American tourist :clap2:

[kleenex]

Don't worry i will tell all my friends in the Aegeans Islands that whenever they see you they shouldn't speak Greek to you or
treat you as kin but as a German or White American tourist :clap2:

I know that Greek culture is deep and pervasive but why can't we just disagree about genotypes or phenotypes; without animosity?

[Tauromachos]

I know that Greek culture is deep and pervasive but why can't we just disagree about genotypes or phenotypes; without animosity?

I have some animosity because when someone considers himself closer to Non Greek people like Slavo Macedonians than to Greek neighbours from the Islands there is something wrong with it and
it isn't true neither.

I would wish to know to how many Islands you have been at all?

If you think Islanders in general look more different from your Mainland Greek ancestors than Non Greek Balkan or Austrians then you need
help

[Tauromachos]

The only Peloponnesians with no Slavic input are Tsakonians and a small subset of Maniots. And they still have more NE European than Sicily and most Cretans (the closest people to these Maniots would be Cyclades islanders).


This is correct i suppose

I would say Cyclade Islanders would be Maniots closest kin in the Aegean also in terms of phenotype.

[kleenex]

I have some animosity because when someone considers himself closer to Non Greek people like Slavo Macedonians than to Greek neighbours from the Islands there is something wrong with it and
it isn't true neither.

I would wish to know to how many Islands you have been at all?

If you think Islanders in general look more different from your Mainland Greek ancestors than Non Greek Balkan or Austrians then you need
help

My cousin is married to a woman from Kalymnos and the town I grew up in was full of Greeks from Karpathos so yes I've been around plenty of Aegean Islanders.

[kleenex]

My cousin is married to a woman from Kalymnos and the town I grew up in was full of Greeks from Karpathos so yes I've been around plenty of Aegean Islanders.

I never said that mainlanders look closer to Austrians than Aegean Islanders I only said that the genetic admixture is different and there is some (slight) difference in phenotype between the mainland and the Islands (overall) but there is certainly overlap.

[Tauromachos]

My cousin is married to a woman from Kalymnos and the town I grew up in was full of Greeks from Karpathos so yes I've been around plenty of Aegean Islanders.


You have been around Aegean Islanders from a particular part of the Aegean Islands the South East Agean only

Karpathos Islanders have distinct looks at least some and are different compared to Cyclade Islanders and others even compared to Chios
Islanders

They also differ from them genetically

My question still stands

Have you ever stayed in an Aegean Island itself?

From what you answered it appears that you didn't

Have you been to Cyclades like Santorin,Paros,Naxos or Mykonos?


Have you been to Samos or North Aegean Islands?

I'm myself partially Aegean Islander i have family in Aegean Islands and i go there often and have lived for a reasonable time of my live there

I have also lived in Athens long enough were you have all tribes of Greek people from Epirotes,Arcadians till Cretans and Smyrnians.

And for Arcadians i can tell you one thing though there are Arcadians for example like your son who looks average Greek
though a Mainland Med type more similar to Iberian than to Bakan or Central Europe there are types of native Arcadians who are
realy dark and can fit in Cyprus like a glove i have seen them with my own eyes believe it or not i don't care

[kleenex]

You have been around Aegean Islanders from a particular part of the Aegean Islands the South East Agean only

Karpathos Islanders have distinct looks at least some and are different compared to Cyclade Islanders and others even compared to Chios
Islanders

They also differ from them genetically

My question still stands

Have you ever stayed in a Aegean Island itself?

From what you answered it appears that you didn't?

Have you been to Cyclades like Santorin,Paros,Naxos or Mykonos?


Have you been to Samos or North Aegean Islands?

I'm myself partially Aegean Islander i have family in Aegean Islands and i go there often and have lived for a reasonable time of my live there

I have also lived in Athens long enough were you have all tribes of Greek people from Epirotes,Arcadians till Cretans and Smyrnians.

I've been to Greece three times. My first visit was spent in Athens, Kalamata, and the villages in Messinia. During my second visit I spent time in Rhodes, Santorini, Skiathos, Kerkyra, Athens and the Peloponnnese (visiting my relatives). The third time I was in Athens and Messinia. So no I don't have the breadth of experience visiting particular areas to observe local phenotypes. But why do we have a forum with posts of Greeks from various regions? Isn't it to contrast and compare? The same with Poles, Bulgarians, Italians, etc. Why is it that other ethnicities are ok with phenotypic variation and Greeks aren't?

[Tauromachos]

@ Cybernautic; if something or someone doesn't fit your agenda you "thumbs down them." I definitely see a pattern.

I definetly see a pattern in your behaviour and even more so in Sikeliot's who has clearly an agenda

You seem a troll to me i have noticed some things about you that make me believe you are a troll and a person
with Nordicist OWD

I wouldn't have brought the subject up but since you summoned my name and announced it i felt to reply to
that one also here take it

[Tauromachos]

I've been to Greece three times. My first visit was spent in Athens, Kalamata, and the villages in Messinia. During my second visit I spent time in Rhodes, Santorini, Skiathos, Kerkyra, Athens and the Peloponnnese (visiting my relatives). The third time I was in Athens and Messinia. So no I don't have the breadth of experience visiting particular areas to observe local phenotypes. But why do we have a forum with posts of Greeks from various regions? Isn't it to contrast and compare? The same with Poles, Bulgarians, Italians, etc. Why is it that other ethnicities are ok with phenotypic variation and Greeks aren't?

Because phenotypical variation for Greeks isn't what it is presented as in this forum.

All i see is people post things to justify preconcieved misconceptions and stereotypes

A la,

Peloponesians are heavily Slavicized or Slav admixed from the Middle Ages or all Peloponnesians descend from Arvanites or
Albanian migrants of the Middle Ages
Greek Islanders/South Italians have Semitic looks or are significantly Levantine
Cypriots aren't genetically Greek at all but just Greek speaking Phoenicians and so on


If there are real differences between Mainstream Aegean Greeks and Mainland Greeks in look so far as i tried to explain its not
in pigmentation but rather in their features ,

Islanders are about the same dark or light as Mainlanders in general,
the only people who are significantly darker are some Islanders in the South East Aegean and some Cretans and then Cypriots

[Lauχum]

Are there any mainland Greeks besides Mani and Tsakonians who plot with Abruzzo or Italian_South instead of to the "north" of them?

Its quite surprising how homogeneous the mainland appears to be.

[Tauromachos]

Are there any mainland Greeks besides Mani and Tsakonians who plot with Abruzzo or Italian_South instead of to the "north" of them?

Its quite surprising how homogeneous the mainland appears to be.

Many Peloponnesians get Central Greek and Abruzzo among their first closest matches often before Albanian as well
Messinia:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 3.56
2 Greek_Central 4.05
3 Greek_Thessaly 4.9
4 Albanian 5.3
5 Kosovar 6.58
6 Italian_Tuscan 6.89
7 Ashkenazy_Jew 6.92
8 Italian_Sicilian 8.05
9 Bulgarian 11.3
10 Macedonian 11.5
11 Sephardic_Jew 11.55
12 Italian_Bergamo 12.89
13 Romanian 13.74
14 Montenegrin 14.29
15 Serbian 16.76
16 Turkish 18.57
17 Spaniard 18.67
18 Turkish_Aydin 19.81
19 Cypriot 20.11
20 Bosnian 20.54

Laconia:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Central 3.59
2 Greek_Thessaly 3.83
3 Italian Abruzzo 4.264
4 Albanian 4.46
5 Kosovar 5.54
6 Italian_Tuscan 6.55
7 Ashkenazy_Jew 7.7
8 Italian_Sicilian 8.91
9 Bulgarian 10.4
10 Macedonian 10.78
11 Italian_Bergamo 12.58
12 Sephardic_Jew 12.71
13 Romanian 12.98
14 Montenegrin 13.48
15 Serbian 15.99
16 Turkish 18.55
17 Spaniard 18.7
18 Turkish_Aydin 19.72
19 Bosnian 19.82
20 Cypriot 20.67

More examples?

[Sikeliot]

Are there any mainland Greeks besides Mani and Tsakonians who plot with Abruzzo or Italian_South instead of to the "north" of them?

Its quite surprising how homogeneous the mainland appears to be.


Abruzzo yes.

Italian South/Calabria, no.

[Lauχum]

Many Peloponnesians get Central Greek and Abruzzo among their first closest matches often before Albanian as well
Messinia:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 3.56
2 Greek_Central 4.05
3 Greek_Thessaly 4.9
4 Albanian 5.3
5 Kosovar 6.58
6 Italian_Tuscan 6.89
7 Ashkenazy_Jew 6.92
8 Italian_Sicilian 8.05
9 Bulgarian 11.3
10 Macedonian 11.5
11 Sephardic_Jew 11.55
12 Italian_Bergamo 12.89
13 Romanian 13.74
14 Montenegrin 14.29
15 Serbian 16.76
16 Turkish 18.57
17 Spaniard 18.67
18 Turkish_Aydin 19.81
19 Cypriot 20.11
20 Bosnian 20.54

Laconia:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Central 3.59
2 Greek_Thessaly 3.83
3 Italian Abruzzo 4.264
4 Albanian 4.46
5 Kosovar 5.54
6 Italian_Tuscan 6.55
7 Ashkenazy_Jew 7.7
8 Italian_Sicilian 8.91
9 Bulgarian 10.4
10 Macedonian 10.78
11 Italian_Bergamo 12.58
12 Sephardic_Jew 12.71
13 Romanian 12.98
14 Montenegrin 13.48
15 Serbian 15.99
16 Turkish 18.55
17 Spaniard 18.7
18 Turkish_Aydin 19.72
19 Bosnian 19.82
20 Cypriot 20.67

More examples?

Thanks. Could you post their mixed model results for the Eurogenes K15? And yeah if you have more examples I'd like to see them.

[Constantine13]

These kinds of threads still amaze me. So much drama over something elementary.

The reality:

1) People are assuming what has yet to be proven: that southern Italians, Greek islanders, etc. are some sort of benchmark for "Greenness."

2) Southern Italians, Aegeans, Cypriotes, etc. are majority-Neolithic-Farmer-derived people that were always peripheral to the Greek world. That's a fact.

3) "Greekness" is Continental in origin. That's a fact. Greek speakers invaded the Peninsula and mixed with the locals. These invaders were not Neolithic Farmer types. These invaders came from, hold on to your hats...the northeast, and were similar to other Balkan tribes. Those are facts.

4) On the Indo-Euro Language tree, Greek and Balto-Slavic are (some would say surprisingly) related, evolving from a more recent common ancestor than say, Greek and Celtic. This likely coincides with genetic and physical affiliations as well. It is *this* northeastern connection that is confounding the matter and giving detractors fodder to manipulate as they like.

5) The people we today know as Slavs, though maybe having a small/distant connection in some way to ancient Greek tribes, came out of the marshes and forests much later in history. They are a totally different people now, bearing little genetic relation to modern Greeks and having physical and genetic attributes (IE Uralic-type admixture) that are lacking in the Greek peninsula.

6) I wager that this Slavo-Greek hypothesis will soon meet it's end, much like the Greek = Turkish one of years past. The final nail whispers off on the horizon....

[Sikeliot]

Thanks. Could you post their mixed model results for the Eurogenes K15? And yeah if you have more examples I'd like to see them.

The results above get Tuscan over Sicilian, so I am not sure how "south" plotting they truly are. Just wanted to point this out.

[Sikeliot]

These kinds of threads still amaze me. So much drama over something elementary.

The reality:

1) People are assuming what has yet to be proven: that southern Italians, Greek islanders, etc. are some sort of benchmark for "Greenness."

2) Southern Italians, Aegeans, Cypriotes, etc. are majority-Neolithic-Farmer-derived people that were always peripheral to the Greek world. That's a fact.

3) "Greekness" is Continental in origin. That's a fact. Greek speakers invaded the Peninsula and mixed with the locals. These invaders were not Neolithic Farmer types. These invaders came from, hold on to your hats...the northeast, and were similar to other Balkan tribes. Those are facts.

4) On the Indo-Euro Language tree, Greek and Balto-Slavic are (some would say surprisingly) related, evolving from a more recent common ancestor than say, Greek and Celtic. This likely coincides with genetic and physical affiliations as well. It is *this* northeastern connection that is confounding the matter and giving detractors fodder to manipulate as they like.

5) The people we today know as Slavs, though maybe having a small/distant connection in some way to ancient Greek tribes, came out of the marshes and forests much later in history. They are a totally different people now, bearing little genetic relation to modern Greeks and having physical and genetic attributes (IE Uralic-type admixture) that are lacking in the Greek peninsula.

6) I wager that this Slavo-Greek hypothesis will soon meet it's end, much like the Greek = Turkish one of years past. The final nail whispers off on the horizon....


So you are saying in your view, Greek mainlanders (at least so long as they have been "Greeks" rather than just pre-Greek Neolithic peoples) have never been similar to Aegean islanders and Sicilians.

[Tauromachos]

These kinds of threads still amaze me. So much drama over something elementary.




1) People are assuming what has yet to be proven: that southern Italians, Greek islanders, etc. are some sort of benchmark for "Greenness."
2) Southern Italians, Aegeans, Cypriotes, etc. are majority-Neolithic-Farmer-derived people that were always peripheral to the Greek world. That's a fact.


No they were not

Epirotes and Illyrians were more peripherial to the Greek world.

Cypriots were a thing of their own and the modern ones are genetically not identical with general Greek Islanders to begin with.

But they descend from Greek people"Arcadians" as well
And to be sincere i have seen some modern Greeks from Arcadia today who would pass as natives in Cyprus
without no problem or to say it more drastically they fit there like a glove


Epiros was Ancient Greece though but Illyrians and other people of the Balkans weren't even Greek

The Islands had religious Centers"Delos" and alot of famous Ancient Greek persons were from Islands "Hippocratis from Kos,Pythagoras and Aristarchos from Samos",Aegean Island Greeks had city states such as South and Mainland Central Greece participated in the Greek Wars such as the Peloponnesian war
Olympic Games ect

There is no Ancient Greece without the Aegean Islands,if you think there is then you are an complete Idiot,sorry




3) "Greekness" is Continental in origin. That's a fact. Greek speakers invaded the Peninsula and mixed with the locals. These invaders were not Neolithic Farmer types. These invaders came from, hold on to your hats...the northeast, and were similar to other Balkan tribes. Those are facts.

In origin yes
Islanders in the Aegean indetified as Ionians,Aelians and Dorians same with Greek tribes in the Mainland.
Samos,Paros,Naxos were Ionians,Dodecanese Islanders were Dorians,Lesbians were Aeolians.

Invaders?

Ancient Greek people were predominantly a mix of Paleoltihic native Hunter Gatherers of the region we know to today as Greece and of Neolithic
Farmers.

This is also where the majority of modern Greeks ancestry is still from believe it or not of course with some additional
admixtures from other people who interacted with Greeks throughout history.

Bronze Age Mainland Greeks"Mycanaeans" and Minoans in Crete and the Islands shared a common genetic ancestry but differed in some additional
admixtures

Read here http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals
Mycanaean has be deciphered and its commonly acknowlegded that it was Greek
Minoan was could have been not Greek it isn't known still



4) On the Indo-Euro Language tree, Greek and Balto-Slavic are (some would say surprisingly) related, evolving from a more recent common ancestor than say, Greek and Celtic. This likely coincides with genetic and physical affiliations as well. It is *this* northeastern connection that is confounding the matter and giving detractors fodder to manipulate as they like.

Now they aren't
Greek is grouped with Centum to which Latin belongs

Balto Slavic belongs to Satem together with Indo Iranic languages.




5) The people we today know as Slavs, though maybe having a small/distant connection in some way to ancient Greek tribes, came out of the marshes and forests much later in history. They are a totally different people now, bearing little genetic relation to modern Greeks and having physical and genetic attributes (IE Uralic-type admixture) that are lacking in the Greek peninsula.


Agean Islanders and South Italians have far more connections to Ancient Greek tribes than any Slav ever had



6) I wager that this Slavo-Greek hypothesis will soon meet it's end, much like the Greek = Turkish one of years past. The final nail whispers off on the horizon....


It already did, just some morons in the web still supporting it for obvious reasons
Most of them are Albanians,Fyromians or similar folks

[Freeroostah]

I thought I remembered you being West plotting kind of like a Tuscan. Maybe I was remembering incorrectly.

When it comes to northern admixture, some calculators like Eurogenes push me towards Ukraine while others like MDLP and Dodecad towards Germany. According to K36 mapping tool Im closer to Switzerland/Bavaria/France than Ukraine or Poland.

Overall I get 75% south Greek/South Italian and 25% North European and 50% Bulgarian 50% Sicilian.


But yeah, Im usually placed east of Abruzzo

[Tauromachos]

When it comes to northern admixture, some calculators like Eurogenes push me towards Ukraine while others like MDLP and Dodecad towards Germany. According to K36 mapping tool Im closer to Switzerland/Bavaria/France than Ukraine or Poland.

Overall I get 75% south Greek/South Italian and 25% North European and 50% Bulgarian 50% Sicilian.


But yeah, Im usually placed east of Abruzzo

Still 75% South Greek/South Italian and 50% Sicilians means that you are predominantly related to these folks neither to Central Europeans nor to Slavs.


I emphasize this because of all the Idiots who claime that Greeks in the Mainland are unrelated or something entirely different from Italians and Aegeans Islanders

[Sikeliot]

When it comes to northern admixture, some calculators like Eurogenes push me towards Ukraine while others like MDLP and Dodecad towards Germany. According to K36 mapping tool Im closer to Switzerland/Bavaria/France than Ukraine or Poland.

Overall I get 75% south Greek/South Italian and 25% North European and 50% Bulgarian 50% Sicilian.


But yeah, Im usually placed east of Abruzzo

You probably plot like someone with 3 Cretan grandparents and one Central European one.

[Tauromachos]

You probably plot like someone with 3 Cretan grandparents and one Central European one.

This makes him predominantly Cretan genetically

[Freeroostah]

You probably plot like someone with 3 Cretan grandparents and one Central European one.

Yeah something like that

[Tauromachos]

Yeah something like that

Easy Dude

You are basicly a Cretan genetically

Παρε το Χαμπαρι

[Constantine13]

So you are saying in your view, Greek mainlanders (at least so long as they have been "Greeks" rather than just pre-Greek Neolithic peoples) have never been similar to Aegean islanders and Sicilians.

I believe the differences you see today, are the differences that were always present, regardless of who's considered most "Greek." Archaeology clearly shows difference--albeit an overlap--in population structure.

[Sikeliot]

Yeah something like that

If you score Sicily it's probably substituting for Aegean-like Greek admixture.

[Tauromachos]

If you score Sicily it's probably substituting for Aegean-like Greek admixture.

He is predominantly Aegean Greek for that matter genetically

[Freeroostah]

If you score Sicily it's probably substituting for Aegean-like Greek admixture.

Whatever Central_Greek means for Eurogenes :D

[Tauromachos]

Thanks. Could you post their mixed model results for the Eurogenes K15? And yeah if you have more examples I'd like to see them.

Ok one more

Korinthian Greek




1 SW_Europe 37.82
2 West_Asia 23.8
3 NE_Europe 19.94
4 SW_Asia 13.59
5 NE_Asia 1.05
6 SE_Asia 0.99
7 Oceania 0.9
8 West_Africa 0.6
9 Siberia 0.55
10 South_Asia 0.45
11 Americas 0.23
12 South_Africa 0.08


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Central 3.39
2 Italian_Abruzzo 3.7
3 Ashkenazy_Jew 4.27
4 Italian_Sicilian 5.47
5 Greek_Thessaly 7.36
6 Albanian 7.99
7 Sephardic_Jew 9.23
8 Kosovar 9.26
9 Italian_Tuscan 9.76
10 Bulgarian 13.99
11 Macedonian 14.4
12 Italian_Bergamo 15.73
13 Turkish 15.87
14 Romanian 16.28
15 Montenegrin 17.06
16 Cypriot 17.14
17 Turkish_Aydin 17.66
18 Turkish_Kayseri 18.48
19 Serbian 19.6
20 Balkar 20.86

For this one i have also the mixed population modelling
1 91.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 8.2% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 1.99
2 85% Italian_Abruzzo + 15% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.04
3 89.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 10.8% Nogay @ 2.06
4 93.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 6.3% Afghan_Hazara @ 2.18
5 91.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 8.4% Tadjik @ 2.22
6 67.9% Ashkenazy_Jew + 32.1% Albanian @ 2.25
7 84.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.7% Turkish @ 2.27
8 66% Ashkenazy_Jew + 34% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.28
9 87.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.3% Balkar @ 2.29
10 88.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 11.5% Kumyk @ 2.29
11 86.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 13.5% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.34
12 89.8% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.2% Scottish @ 2.35
13 79.5% Ashkenazy_Jew + 20.5% Bulgarian @ 2.35
14 88.7% Ashkenazy_Jew + 11.3% German_South @ 2.37
15 71.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 28.4% Kosovar @ 2.38
16 94.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 5.8% Burusho @ 2.38
17 90% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10% Orcadian @ 2.39
18 84.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 15.4% Serbian @ 2.39
19 90.1% Ashkenazy_Jew + 9.9% Irish @ 2.39
20 89.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.4% English @ 2.39


And another one from further North but only Single population sharing

Greek from Eubia probably an Arvanite bw
Euboea:[/QUOTE]
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.79
2 West_Med 20.78
3 North_Atlantic 20.58
4 Baltic 15.43
5 West_Asian 12.83
6 Red_Sea 5.88
7 East_Asian 0.71


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.35
2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.29
3 Central_Greek 7.7
4 West_Sicilian 8.69
5 East_Sicilian 8.76
6 Tuscan 8.88
7 Bulgarian 9.54
8 Romanian 11.23
9 South_Italian 11.77
10 Ashkenazi 11.89
11 North_Italian 13.05
12 Serbian 15.21
13 Sephardic_Jewish 17.36
14 Italian_Jewish 17.6
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.61
16 Portuguese 20.81
17 Spanish_Extremadura 20.96
18 Tunisian_Jewish 21.21
19 Moldavian 21.33
20 Libyan_Jewish 21.62

[kleenex]

Ok one more

Korinthian Greek




1 SW_Europe 37.82
2 West_Asia 23.8
3 NE_Europe 19.94
4 SW_Asia 13.59
5 NE_Asia 1.05
6 SE_Asia 0.99
7 Oceania 0.9
8 West_Africa 0.6
9 Siberia 0.55
10 South_Asia 0.45
11 Americas 0.23
12 South_Africa 0.08


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Central 3.39
2 Italian_Abruzzo 3.7
3 Ashkenazy_Jew 4.27
4 Italian_Sicilian 5.47
5 Greek_Thessaly 7.36
6 Albanian 7.99
7 Sephardic_Jew 9.23
8 Kosovar 9.26
9 Italian_Tuscan 9.76
10 Bulgarian 13.99
11 Macedonian 14.4
12 Italian_Bergamo 15.73
13 Turkish 15.87
14 Romanian 16.28
15 Montenegrin 17.06
16 Cypriot 17.14
17 Turkish_Aydin 17.66
18 Turkish_Kayseri 18.48
19 Serbian 19.6
20 Balkar 20.86

For this one i have also the mixed population modelling
1 91.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 8.2% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 1.99
2 85% Italian_Abruzzo + 15% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.04
3 89.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 10.8% Nogay @ 2.06
4 93.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 6.3% Afghan_Hazara @ 2.18
5 91.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 8.4% Tadjik @ 2.22
6 67.9% Ashkenazy_Jew + 32.1% Albanian @ 2.25
7 84.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 15.7% Turkish @ 2.27
8 66% Ashkenazy_Jew + 34% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.28
9 87.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.3% Balkar @ 2.29
10 88.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 11.5% Kumyk @ 2.29
11 86.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 13.5% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.34
12 89.8% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.2% Scottish @ 2.35
13 79.5% Ashkenazy_Jew + 20.5% Bulgarian @ 2.35
14 88.7% Ashkenazy_Jew + 11.3% German_South @ 2.37
15 71.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 28.4% Kosovar @ 2.38
16 94.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 5.8% Burusho @ 2.38
17 90% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10% Orcadian @ 2.39
18 84.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 15.4% Serbian @ 2.39
19 90.1% Ashkenazy_Jew + 9.9% Irish @ 2.39
20 89.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.4% English @ 2.39


And another one from further North but only Single population sharing

Greek from Eubia probably an Arvanite bw
Euboea:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.79
2 West_Med 20.78
3 North_Atlantic 20.58
4 Baltic 15.43
5 West_Asian 12.83
6 Red_Sea 5.88
7 East_Asian 0.71


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.35
2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.29
3 Central_Greek 7.7
4 West_Sicilian 8.69
5 East_Sicilian 8.76
6 Tuscan 8.88
7 Bulgarian 9.54
8 Romanian 11.23
9 South_Italian 11.77
10 Ashkenazi 11.89
11 North_Italian 13.05
12 Serbian 15.21
13 Sephardic_Jewish 17.36
14 Italian_Jewish 17.6
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.61
16 Portuguese 20.81
17 Spanish_Extremadura 20.96
18 Tunisian_Jewish 21.21
19 Moldavian 21.33
20 Libyan_Jewish 21.62[/QUOTE]

I'll be honest with you although I have no affinity with (or to) Albanians whatsoever however, Peloponnesians are genetically closer to Albanians than to East Aegean Islanders. So what? Who cares?

[Tauromachos]

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.79
2 West_Med 20.78
3 North_Atlantic 20.58
4 Baltic 15.43
5 West_Asian 12.83
6 Red_Sea 5.88
7 East_Asian 0.71


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.35
2 Italian_Abruzzo 7.29
3 Central_Greek 7.7
4 West_Sicilian 8.69
5 East_Sicilian 8.76
6 Tuscan 8.88
7 Bulgarian 9.54
8 Romanian 11.23
9 South_Italian 11.77
10 Ashkenazi 11.89
11 North_Italian 13.05
12 Serbian 15.21
13 Sephardic_Jewish 17.36
14 Italian_Jewish 17.6
15 Algerian_Jewish 17.61
16 Portuguese 20.81
17 Spanish_Extremadura 20.96
18 Tunisian_Jewish 21.21
19 Moldavian 21.33
20 Libyan_Jewish 21.62


Why are you so concerned about mainland Greeks? You're a Cypriot right? So why delve into mainland Greek genetics and try to continuously prove genetic parallel between mainlanders and Cypriots?

First of all you don't even know what exactly i'm if i'm Cypriot full Cypriot partial Cypriot or not Cypriot at all


I'm Greek with predominantly Aegean ancestry but i'm not going to tell you from where exactly it is if its Cyprus
or something else of course you can think whatever you want,your own buissiness :)
In an online forum like this i won't give information about the entirety of my ancestry or private things like family names
ect

Le me ask in reward why is an Italian American who has no Greek ancestry but only Sicilian,Slavic,West African allowed
or concerned so much to make threads about Mainland Greeks,Aegean Islanders,Cypriots,West Asians,Balkanites and lecture everyone
else about what they are,where they belong and what they look like phenotypically?

He claims for example Greek Islanders would look Semitic because of their proximity to Southern Italy
Thats in general bullshit he has never been to a Greek Island.

He wants to be the ultimate authority on South Italians and Sicilians.
He doesn't even speak one word Italian



I'll be honest with you although I have no affinity with (or to) Albanians whatsoever however, Peloponnesians are genetically closer to Albanians than to East Aegean Islanders. So what? Who cares? You're always trying to prove some grand "Hellenic" point.

It would take to long to discuss the whole matter right now
Let me answer with some brief words.

Albanians and Greeks are related but this doesn't have to with Mainland Greeks descending from Medieval Albanian immigrants in majority.
A minorty of Mainland Greeks only realy descend from Arvanites.

Mainland Greeks and Aegean Islands Greeks share about 70% Mycanaean ancestry.
They are same or very similar people in their basic ancestry but shift into different direction concerning
foreign admixtures.
In the case of Mainland Greeks its correct that they have in general more NE Euro than Aegeans but of course there
are Mainland Greeks with very little or No East Euro.

The West Med of Mainlanders and Islanders seems about the same with little to no differences

Some Islanders might have significantly more East Med than Mainlanders but actually the difference in West Asian between
Mainlanders and Islanders is actually not realy that big often.

[Sikeliot]

I'll be honest with you although I have no affinity with (or to) Albanians whatsoever however, Peloponnesians are genetically closer to Albanians than to East Aegean Islanders. So what? Who cares?

They are closer to Albania than to South Italy also.

[Sikeliot]

Thumbs me down but it doesn't make what I said any less true.

[Tauromachos]

Thumbs me down but it doesn't make what I said any less true.

Manisma Ariel?

[kleenex]

@ Cybernautic: For some reason you are trying to link "Greekness" to genetics which is not what this is about. Were trying to figure out our individual ancestry and appreciate the help of other's insights in this process. I never said (or believe) that mainland Greeks have medieval Albanian ancestry I'm only saying that mainland Greeks are genetically close to Albanians for some historical reason (could be ancient). I actually believe that there were Slavic incursions in Greece some of which reached the Peloponnese otherwise why would you see higher "Baltic" in Peloponnesians as well as morphological variance (leaning towards Balkans) that you may not see in Islanders. The Slavic influence is minimal but yet it does exist (the studies show this) so why continuously deny it's presence. Greece is varied as is Albania, Italy, Bulgaria, Poland, etc. As far as Peloponnesians in general I do believe of all mainlanders were probably the least mixed genetically due to isolation and location (distance) but more so than Islanders.

[Tauromachos]

@ Cybernautic: For some reason you are trying to link "Greekness" to genetics which is not what this is about. Were trying to figure out our individual ancestry and appreciate the help of other's insights in this process. I never said (or believe) that mainland Greeks have medieval Albanian ancestry I'm only saying that mainland Greeks are genetically close to Albanians for some historical reason (could be ancient). I actually believe that there were Slavic incursions in Greece some of which reached the Peloponnese otherwise why would you see higher "Baltic" in Peloponnesians as well as morphological variance (leaning towards Balkans) that you may not see in Islanders. The Slavic influence is minimal but yet it does exist (the studies show this) so why continuously deny it's presence. Greece is varied as is Albania, Italy, Bulgaria, Poland, etc. As far as Peloponnesians in general I do believe of all mainlanders were probably the least mixed genetically due to isolation and location (distance) but more so than Islanders.

First of all i don't deny Slavic influences and most things you claim about me are not true.

As for Peloponesians
Peloponnesians can have from 0% or 1% up to 15% shared Ancestry with Slavs according to the pubished study which
studied the overlapp with Slavic people,thats it
Don' t believe the study?

At the moment i'm not interested in a further dicussion on the subject

Thanks

[Aren]

People are so sure about Slavic ancestry in mainland Greece when we only have four low quality Myceanean Greeks to compare with. We need a lot more than that.

[Tauromachos]

People are so sure about Slavic ancestry in mainland Greece when we only have four low quality Myceanean Greeks to compare with. We need a lot more than that.

As i told before

There are published studies on the shared ancestry between Slavs and Greeks from Peloponnese and the shared ancestry in this
region ranges from 0% to 15% alot of Peloponnesians have around 8% or 10% shared ancestry with Slavs in this study so i don't understand why
some morons here insist that Greeks of Peloponnese have significant or high amounts of Slavic.

They have Slavic ancestry but its not that high

There should be more studies on the other parts of Mainland Greece concerning Slavic shared ancestry as well so we can know for sure

But the general studies on Greek genetics show so far that Greeks are clearly distinguished from all the Slavic populations and are closer to
Italians.

The Balkan people closest to Greeks are Albanians but Slavic is low in Albanians as well and Albanians themselfes are also much closer to Italy than Balkan Slavs are
for that matter

[Dimitri159]

What, how? All you managed to do was show that Peloponnese Greeks ARE like southern Italians. I see Sicilians and Abruzzo make the top 10 list. And Abruzzo fyi even though are in central Italy they cluster more with the south.

[Cristiano viejo]

Greeks, the most European and lightest of all the SE.

[Dimitri159]

Greeks, the most European and lightest of all the SE.

Read the samples. Southern Italians and Jews are among the top 10 list clustering with these samples. So definitely the LEAST European in SE Europe. Serbians and Croatians are the most European and lightest in SE Europe.

[Cristiano viejo]

Read the samples. Southern Italians and Jews are among the top 10 list clustering with these samples. So definitely the LEAST European in SE Europe. Serbians and Croatians are the most European and lightest in SE Europe.

Serbians are darker and Croatians are at par. Really the Slovenians are the lightest, and then the Grikkks.

[Dimitri159]

Serbians are darker and Croatians are at par. Really the Slovenians are the lightest, and then the Grikkks.

Serbs are by far whiter than Greeks. Greeks are related to southern Italians and Albanians, and this is proven by genetic studies. Serbs cluster closer to Central Europe genetically.

[Cristiano viejo]

Serbs are by far whiter than Greeks.

:picard1:

[Dimitri159]

:picard1:

They actually look about the same, with Greeks being slightly darker. Neither one looks ‘a lot’ darker than the other from what I can see:

Serbian crowd
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/839a187c7e67140f0067de3e9b08e09c60886ec3/385_667_4551_2730/master/4551.jpg?width=480&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none
https://www.serbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/serbia-djokovic_898_176665b.jpg
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a7525f61552a7418745e5146417f47965a0f0a48/0_292_5840_3505/master/5840.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a7525f61552a7418745e5146417f47965a0f0a48/0_292_5840_3505/master/5840.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&

Greek crowd
https://m.wsj.net/video/20150706/0706greecex/0706greecex_1280x720.jpg
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/07/05/16/greece-election.jpg
https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/662643076/display_1500/stock-photo-thessaloniki-greece-november-greek-students-march-and-shout-slogans-during-a-protest-662643076.jpg

Greece is 1. hotter and sunnier than Serbia, and 2. genetically ‘less European’ than Serbia. Logically it is impossible to believe that Serbs are darker than Greeks, but if you have doubts just Google it and you will see for yourself.

[Dimitri159]

Deleted

[Dimitri159]

Still 75% South Greek/South Italian and 50% Sicilians means that you are predominantly related to these folks neither to Central Europeans nor to Slavs.


I emphasize this because of all the Idiots who claime that Greeks in the Mainland are unrelated or something entirely different from Italians and Aegeans Islanders

People be like “my DNA test says I’m 3% African so that means I’m black”.

[Dimitri159]

The reality:

1) People are assuming what has yet to be proven: that southern Italians, Greek islanders, etc. are some sort of benchmark for "Greenness."

They are the benchmark for “Greekness” starting with antiquity. You are going too far back with the Indo-European invasion of Proto-Greek speakers. And I say this because Mycenaean Greeks would have been genetically closer to island Greeks than to a majority of the mainland today. Perhaps what they mean is the Mycenaeans are the ‘benchmark’ for Greekness because they were the first established Greeks on the peninsula, with modern Aegean islanders and southern Italians being closely related to them.


2) Southern Italians, Aegeans, Cypriotes, etc. are majority-Neolithic-Farmer-derived people that were always peripheral to the Greek world. That's a fact.


Well technically the mainland is also majority Neolithic Farmer, only the mainland has additional continental European admixture that the islands lack.


3) "Greekness" is Continental in origin. That's a fact. Greek speakers invaded the Peninsula and mixed with the locals. These invaders were not Neolithic Farmer types. These invaders came from, hold on to your hats...the northeast, and were similar to other Balkan tribes. Those are facts.

As I said above, you are going too far back. This is correct in that the oldest origins of the Greek language is from the Yamnaya Steppe region. But you have the wrong idea as to how the invasion affected the Greek peninsula. The Indo-European Greek speakers did not remove the indigenous Mediterranean populations of the mainland, they assimilated them. Studies show that Mycenaean Greeks of the mainland were genetically closely related to Minoans of the islands.

[JerryS.]

They actually look about the same, with Greeks being slightly darker. Neither one looks ‘a lot’ darker than the other from what I can see:

Serbian crowd
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/839a187c7e67140f0067de3e9b08e09c60886ec3/385_667_4551_2730/master/4551.jpg?width=480&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none
https://www.serbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/serbia-djokovic_898_176665b.jpg
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a7525f61552a7418745e5146417f47965a0f0a48/0_292_5840_3505/master/5840.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a7525f61552a7418745e5146417f47965a0f0a48/0_292_5840_3505/master/5840.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&

Greek crowd
https://m.wsj.net/video/20150706/0706greecex/0706greecex_1280x720.jpg
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/07/05/16/greece-election.jpg
https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/662643076/display_1500/stock-photo-thessaloniki-greece-november-greek-students-march-and-shout-slogans-during-a-protest-662643076.jpg

Greece is 1. hotter and sunnier than Serbia, and 2. genetically ‘less European’ than Serbia. Logically it is impossible to believe that Serbs are darker than Greeks, but if you have doubts just Google it and you will see for yourself.

phenotypes can be bullshit sometimes. I tan regular, my two sisters tan regular, my two younger brothers get "Hebrew" dark in the summer, and we're only 1/8 south Italian with the rest being North Sea. Two of us have the Jimmy Durante Schnozzola, the rest don't.

[Dimitri159]

phenotypes can be bullshit sometimes. I tan regular, my two sisters tan regular, my two younger brothers get "Hebrew" dark in the summer, and we're only 1/8 south Italian with the rest being North Sea. Two of us have the Jimmy Durante Schnozzola, the rest don't.

Viejo was saying that Serbs are generally darker than Greeks. But they are more or less the same skin tone on average, with Greeks being slightly darker.

[catgeorge]

Greeks grow the best moustaches

[Cristiano viejo]

Viejo was saying that Serbs are generally darker than Greeks. But they are more or less the same skin tone on average, with Greeks being slightly darker.

Skin tone among Europeans is overrated, that is true.

But I still see Serbians darker than Gricos, and Gricos being the lightest SE.

[Dimitri159]

Skin tone among Europeans is overrated, that is true.

Yes. Except there is a noticeable difference between northern and southern Euros in general.



But I still see Serbians darker than Gricos, and Gricos being the lightest SE.

I don’t know enough Serbians apart from what I see on forums, Google, YouTube and social media, and I have no idea if you do or not. But how is it logically possible for Serbs to be darker than Greeks if Greece is both sunnier and warmer than Serbia, and also if Serbs plot closer within the European cluster than Greeks do genetically? I mean Serbs plot with Poles, Slovenians and northern Italians genetically, Greeks plot with Albanians and southern Italians…
Are you sure you’re not just being biased because you personally like Greeks more?

[lacreme]

The grandmother of a friend of mine, I think I have posted about her before...Anyway...

She's from a village on the eastern part of Elis, right across the borders with the western part of Arcadia. Going by the history of the area she must be kind of an outlier but it is what it is...

Ancestry raw data (she's also on Myheritage which follows a similar but more western shifted pattern)

Eurogenes K13
North_Atlantic 21.61
Baltic 10.99
West_Med 22.51
West_Asian 11.82
East_Med 26.06
Red_Sea 4.84
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.27
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.34
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.56

Her distance to other members.


Distance to: Chris_paternal_grandmother
4.27445903 Journeyman26(Italian-Greek)
4.32016203 Geni(Albanian)
4.80325931 Corvo(Italian)
5.15085430 giulioimpa(Italian)
5.19340928 Übermensch(Italian)
5.39477525 XK1997(Greek)
5.49792688 Illyrius(Albanian)
5.61854963 Kleenex(Greek)
5.83910096 hithaeglir(Greek)
6.00672956 DRUM(Albanian)
6.24559044 donriccardo(Italian)
6.27395410 GiCa(Italian)
6.56878223 Argentano(Argentine)
6.94488301 Kenshiro(Italian)
6.95452371 Xripkan(Greek)
6.96723762 manu1515(Italian)
7.05981586 AK-47(Jew)
7.06415600 Ylla(Albanian)
7.21415276 Illyrian_warrior(Albanian)
7.21557344 Catgeorge(Greek)
7.23784498 Principe_Azzurro(Italian)
7.44384309 Dorian(Greek)
7.51666149 Avgvstvs(Italian)
7.52019282 Chris_grandpa(Greek)
7.87115620 Pjeter_Pan(Albanian)
7.93953399 Hulu(Albanian)
7.98913012 Thrax(Greek)
8.04670119 Drawing_slim(Albanian)
8.17545717 Markos(Greek)
8.18107572 Anxiety_Adept(Albanian)
8.29928913 Hulu_brother(Albanian)
8.64694166 HellLander87(Greek)
8.65249097 Andrea(Italian)
8.72166269 crazyladybutterfly(Italian)
9.09012651 peloponnesian(Greek)
9.14972677 Ajeje_Brazorf(Italian)
9.33535216 matmondo(Italian)
9.43076879 Dibran(Albanian)
9.45660616 Voskos(Greek)
9.47201668 Vasiliki(Greek)
9.49859990 pmv74(Italian)
9.56697444 IceT(Albanian)
9.70765162 Coolguy(Greek)
10.16597757 ModernMaskil(Jew)
10.24108393 lacreme's_friend_Chris(Greek)
10.27179147 Freeroostah(Greek)
10.32738592 KrashNick(Albanian_¼_Croat)
10.33975338 Vasil(Macedonian)
10.34935264 Hamlet(Jew)
10.53974383 kingjohn(Jew)


Eurogenes K15
North_Sea 8.45
Atlantic 20.28
Baltic 7.63
Eastern_Euro 3.46
West_Med 17.44
West_Asian 12.5
East_Med 23.27
Red_Sea 5.52
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.14
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.29

Dodecad K12b
Gedrosia 5.12
Siberian -
Northwest_African 3.83
Southeast_Asian 0.41
Atlantic_Med 29.89
North_European 19.71
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.69
East_Asian -
Caucasus 30.95
Sub_Saharan 0.36