Turkish R1a1a Ulash.

[Ulash]

Hello all,

I am from Ankara, Sereflikochisar which is in the Central Anatolia region of Turkey. There are two posibilities about my clan. I may be a Pecheneg or an Avshar. Family stories say that I may be a Pecheneg but the historical records say that the area is mostly inhabited by Avshars.

According to my Y-12 test at FamilyTreeDNA, I am a R-M173. After checking Nevgen, I am classified as a R1a 100%. Then, I joined to the R1a project and they have assigned me as “Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934>Y7094>YP5227-x1 (Z2123,Y934,Y7094,YP5227 not tested; Big Y or Z93 SNP pack needed)”.

Now I am waiting for my Y-67 results. I will update here when results arrive. While waiting for it, can anyone give information about these subclades? In yfull, Y7094 has lots of Bashkir samples below it but not on YP5227. YP5227 hasn’t any samples.

Here are my Y-STR results if anyone is interested:

13 25 15 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 32

[Ülev]

R1, where are you?! Your cousin wrote
(unban R1ethel)

[Pahli]

Most likely Z93, Indo-Iranian branch of R1, nice ;)

[Marmara]

R1a-Z93 is a Central Asian subclade of R1a.

[Mr. Anybody]

is it mean that hs father of father of father.....is blonde blue eyed schytian?

[Marmara]

is it mean that hs father of father of father.....is blonde blue eyed schytian?

Yes

[Mr. Anybody]

Yes

ı remember may ı read,r1a correlate blondism r1b cor. reddish/auburn,freckles.and both is mongoloid before migration to europe.is true?and r1a is strongly correlate pontid race(as kn as kurgan,schytian race)? after migration mix native I s and create moder europe.so blondism and fair traits carry europe with r1a/b ?

[Marmara]

ı remember may ı read,r1a correlate blondism r1b cor. reddish/auburn,freckles.and both is mongoloid before migration to europe.is true?and r1a is strongly correlate pontid race(as kn as kurgan,schytian race)? after migration mix native I s and create moder europe.so blondism and fair traits carry europe with r1a/b ?

Both correlate to light hair, not spesifically blonde or red, they weren't mongoloid but dark skinned and asiatic nevertheless.

[Pahli]

Y-dna isn't related to phenotype, its autosomal DNA lmfao.

[İrle]

Most likely Z93, Indo-Iranian branch of R1, nice ;)

Definetly

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1534170149

[Pahli]

Definetly

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1534170149

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1534170149 https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1534170149 https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1534170149

[Kaspias]

Y-DNA can't affect your phenotype

[Proto-Shaman]

Congratulations, you are a true Kipchak Turk

https://i.imgur.com/VsC2azm.jpg

[Leto]

Then, I joined to the R1a project and they have assigned me as “Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934>Y7094>YP5227-x1 (Z2123,Y934,Y7094,YP5227 not tested; Big Y or Z93 SNP pack needed)”.
Which project is that? Can I join it too?

[Artek]

Which project is that? Can I join it too?

Did you test at FTDNA?

It's an "R1a Project" available under this link: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1a/about/background

People from the outside won't see most of new results anyway.

[Leto]

Did you test at FTDNA?

It's an "R1a Project" available under this link: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1a/about/background

People from the outside won't see most of new results anyway.
I've done Y-12 only so far. Can they predict more?

[Artek]

I've done Y-12 only so far. Can they predict more?

Some branches can be predicted basing on Y-12 (L260, CTS11962, YP1051, L1280 etc), so you can join and we will see.

[Leto]

Some branches can be predicted basing on Y-12 (L260, CTS11962, YP1051, L1280 etc), so you can join and we will see.
I have joined it from my father's account. Can you guys at least tell me I'm not Z93? A predictor claimed my branch is Jewish which I cannot believe, 'cause R1a is only like 10% among Ashkenazi Jews and I have zero Jewish in me according to FTDNA and MyHeritage.

[Yaglakar]

You have a Tuvan match > R-M173 13 25 16 11 11-14 12 12 10 14 11 32

and yours R-M173 13 25 15 11 11-14 12 12 10 13 11 32

mutations 15/16 and 14/13

Is your father Turkish?

[Artek]

I have joined it from my father's account. Can you guys at least tell me I'm not Z93? A predictor claimed my branch is Jewish which I cannot believe, 'cause R1a is only like 10% among Ashkenazi Jews and I have zero Jewish in me according to FTDNA and MyHeritage.

I can't tell for sure but you definitely don't belong to Y2619, a branch that is typical for European Jews (and especially for Ashkenazi Levites). Also you most likely don't belong to any other identified Jewish branches, at least you don't show any typical values for any such clade.

Y-12 in your case will not give 100% certain prediction but I think that Z280>CTS1211>YP343>YP371 is the most likely option (~65-75%). Maybe you will match Senkevitch after an eventual upgrade? Who knows.

[Shubotai]

From a linguistic perspective,
R-Z93 corresponds to the Indo-Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
R-Z93>Z94>Z2124 corresponds to the Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
R-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2123 corresponds to the Scytho-Sarmatian branch of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European language family

This is a map of R1a subclades (https://i.redd.it/u3g8pprkb8jz.jpg) which was created based on results by FamilyTree DNA.

The current distribution of the subclade R-Z2123 confirms exactly the existent historical records about Sarmatian tribes, like Alans. What are these records?

The Alans moved into Western Europe and established a brief kingdom around Paris. Later, a part of them moved together with the Vandals in the Iberian peninsula, from where they were expelled by the Visigoths, ultimately settling in Tunisia and establishing a new kingdom there. There exists a relict distribution in southern Sardinia.

The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

There are a lot of Bashkir samples with the result R-Z2123 because these were exactly (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png) the areas where ancient Scythian and Sarmatian tribes lived and flourished, before they got assimilated or pushed westwards by subsequent migrations.

Please read here:
Sarmatians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians)
Alans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans)
Scythian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages)
Eastern Iranian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Iranian_languages)

[Leto]

I can't tell for sure but you definitely don't belong to Y2619, a branch that is typical for European Jews (and especially for Ashkenazi Levites). Also you most likely don't belong to any other identified Jewish branches, at least you don't show any typical values for any such clade.

Y-12 in your case will not give 100% certain prediction but I think that Z280>CTS1211>YP343>YP371 is the most likely option (~65-75%). Maybe you will match Senkevitch after an eventual upgrade? Who knows.
So you saw my question? Interesting. Well, my paternal line is from Central Belarus, at least the great-grandfather was definitely from there.

[Leto]

From a linguistic perspective,
R-Z93 corresponds to the Indo-Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
R-Z93>Z94>Z2124 corresponds to the Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
R-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2123 corresponds to the Scytho-Sarmatian branch of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European language family

This is a map of R1a subclades (https://i.redd.it/u3g8pprkb8jz.jpg) which was created based on results by FamilyTree DNA.

The current distribution of the subclade R-Z2123 confirms exactly the existent historical records about Sarmatian tribes, like Alans. What are these records?

The Alans moved into Western Europe and established a brief kingdom around Paris. Later, a part of them moved together with the Vandals in the Iberian peninsula, from where they were expelled by the Visigoths, ultimately settling in Tunisia and establishing a new kingdom there. There exists a relict distribution in southern Sardinia.

The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

There are a lot of Bashkir samples with the result R-Z2123 because these were exactly (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png) the areas where ancient Scythian and Sarmatian tribes lived and flourished, before they got assimilated or pushed westwards by subsequent migrations.

Please read here:
Sarmatians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians)
Alans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans)
Scythian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages)
Eastern Iranian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Iranian_languages)
To my knowledge R1a is very rare among the Ossetians. Less than 10%. And most Bashkirs are R1b (I still wonder why).

[Shubotai]

Well, apparently then, that less than 10% gave them their language and is R-Z2123 in majority, so that is why it is eastern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetian_language) iranic.

Actually, the subclades of Bashkirs have already been discussed here (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26878-Bashkirs-What-Subclades-of-R1b-Were-They), so let's see:

Break down for R1b subclades in Bashkirs

n* M73 M269(xL23) L23(xM412) U152

South-East Baskkirs 329 77 8 106 2

West Bashkirs 54 0 0 0 0

South Bashkirs 79 0 2 9 1

North Bashkirs 70 1 0 2 50

Southe-West Baskkirs 51 1 0 0 0

Total 586 79 10 126 53

* number of sample Bashkirs

The research can be read here: A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3039512/)

But there is still confusion regarding R-M73 and Q-M25.

Here it is not argued that R1b is the majority among Bashkir samples, but that the R1a subclades among Turkic-speaking, Mongolic-speaking and possibly some Uralic-speaking peoples in Russia are of the Z93 (https://i.redd.it/u3g8pprkb8jz.jpg) variant, contrary to the Z283 variant which is prevalent in other peoples in Russia and the rest of Europe.

Additionally, it should be noted that R-M73 has also been found among Karachay-Balkars in northern Caucasus, so these people probably migrated together. In the same site Khazaria (http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/karachays.html), it is noted that Karachays are 39% R-Z93, while northern Ossetians are only 4% R1a, with southern Ossetians being 12% R1a.

[Yaglakar]

From a linguistic perspective,
R-Z93 corresponds to the Indo-Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
R-Z93>Z94>Z2124 corresponds to the Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
R-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2123 corresponds to the Scytho-Sarmatian branch of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European language family

This is a map of R1a subclades (https://i.redd.it/u3g8pprkb8jz.jpg) which was created based on results by FamilyTree DNA.

The current distribution of the subclade R-Z2123 confirms exactly the existent historical records about Sarmatian tribes, like Alans. What are these records?

The Alans moved into Western Europe and established a brief kingdom around Paris. Later, a part of them moved together with the Vandals in the Iberian peninsula, from where they were expelled by the Visigoths, ultimately settling in Tunisia and establishing a new kingdom there. There exists a relict distribution in southern Sardinia.

The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

There are a lot of Bashkir samples with the result R-Z2123 because these were exactly (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png) the areas where ancient Scythian and Sarmatian tribes lived and flourished, before they got assimilated or pushed westwards by subsequent migrations.

Please read here:
Sarmatians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians)
Alans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans)
Scythian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages)
Eastern Iranian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Iranian_languages)

That is merely an assumption. There is not enough data on Scythian languages or medieval Alan language to draw the above conclusions. There was a definitely variety of different possibly unintelligible "Scythian" languages.

[Artek]

To my knowledge R1a is very rare among the Ossetians. Less than 10%. And most Bashkirs are R1b (I still wonder why).

Ossetians have low internal diversity of a haplogroup G what suggests founder effect, they may not represent the ancestral linguistic group per their Y-DNA.


So you saw my question? Interesting. Well, my paternal line is from Central Belarus, at least the great-grandfather was definitely from there.

I just saw your question on Activity Feed, I guess I don't need to paste my post there ;D. YP371 has rather southerly distribution but there are exceptions. Obviously there was a lot of movement during medieval period, therefore we have ethnic Estonian under YP371, for example.