Why do people separate Germanic and Celtic peoples if they are almost identical genetically?

[AphroditeWorshiper]

for example, a Breton and a Dutch are similar genetically, a French and a German, a Irish and a Danish or a Scottish and a Norwegian

Swedes are a little bit Eastern shifted and French southern shifted, but in overall they are very closer genetically. only the language it's different

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Please guys!!!! :(

[Richmondbread]

Culture clash.

[Westbrook]

Because the stuff you're talking about are language groups and nationalities not genetics

[Profileid]

Who is separating them and how?

[Peterski]

They are not identical genetically, let alone in other aspects (cultures, languages, etc.).

I can easily tell apart Celtic from Germanic ancestry if you send me your raw data file.

[Profileid]

They are not identical genetically, let alone in other aspects (cultures, languages, etc.).

I can easily tell apart Celtic from Germanic ancestry if you send me your raw data file.

lol i know where this is going. Germanics are really more similar to east euros right?
Look at my calcs. I get mostly Celtic on MDLP and mostly Germanic with dodecad.

[Peterski]

I'm just saying that I have no problem telling apart for example Irish or Breton ancestry from Germanic, that's it.

If you have a problem with the fact that there is no problem telling them apart, then it is your problem not mine.

In terms of haplogroups they are also different.

[Peterski]

I get mostly Celtic on MDLP and mostly Germanic with dodecad.

These calcs suck.

[Gründig]

These calcs suck.

Which calcs or tests do you suggest?

[Peterski]

Ancient Celtic samples in Eurogenes K36 (the darker color = the higher similarity to modern populations):

Hinxton1 (Iron Age Celtic Briton 160 BC - 26 AD):

http://i.imgur.com/0RwfyPL.jpg

Hinxton4 (Iron Age Celtic Briton 170 BC - 80 AD):

http://i.imgur.com/6vgXRaA.jpg

=====

For comparison here is a Germanic sample:

RISE174 (Early Medieval Sweden, 427-611 AD):

http://i.imgur.com/bWQZO4n.jpg

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Who is separating them and how?

people talk about celtic and germanic as if they was different ethnic groups apart nationalities

they have a similar genetic cluster in genetics tests

https://anthropologynet.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/razib-modified-correlation-between-genetic-geographic-structure-in-europe.jpg

[Peterski]

Roman Era, Celtic gladiator, highest similarity to modern Irish and Bretons, much lower to Germanic groups:

http://i.imgur.com/ORhTxQ2.png

[AphroditeWorshiper]

I'm just saying that I have no problem telling apart for example Irish or Breton ancestry from Germanic, that's it.

If you have a problem with the fact that there is no problem telling them apart, then it is your problem not mine.

In terms of haplogroups they are also different.

b... but

even haplogroups they are similar, they are basically R1b(Y) and H(Mt)

with sweden a little bit more est with I1, N1c and R1a. and maybe East Germany?

[Peterski]

people talk about celtic and germanic as if they was different ethnic groups apart nationalities

they have a similar genetic cluster in genetics tests

https://anthropologynet.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/razib-modified-correlation-between-genetic-geographic-structure-in-europe.jpg

Modern Brits are a Celto-Germanic racial mix, that's why you can see some British samples plotting closer to Germanic populations.

However, the most Celtic British people plot far away from Germanic populations - on the western (right) end of this graph.

If you take British genomes from 100 AD or from 400 AD - before Germanic invasions - the difference will be even more clear-cut.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Roman Era, Celtic gladiator, highest similarity to modern Irish and Bretons, much lower to Germanic groups:

http://i.imgur.com/ORhTxQ2.png

don't is a veryyyy far and different, common

like Balts and Slavs who are similar genetically, but different groups

[Peterski]

It is just like modern Mexicans, some will plot closer to Spain and some very far away from Spain.

Same with modern British people - some are more Germanic-admixed, others are still very Celtic.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Modern Brits are a Celto-Germanic racial mix, that's why you can see some British samples plotting closer to Germanic populations.

However, the most Celtic British people plot far away from Germanic populations - on the western (right) end of this graph.

If you take British genomes from 100 AD or from 400 AD - before Germanic invasions - the difference will be even more clear-cut.

let's tell that Irish and Breton are the "most" Celtic nowadays group


I see some Gedmatch results here that they get very closer to Dutch,German and Danish :confused:

[Peterski]

don't is a veryyyy far and different, common

like Balts and Slavs who are similar genetically, but different groups

Distinguishing Balts from Slavs is also very easy, except for borderland areas (like North-East Poland vs. South-West Lithuania).


I see some Gedmatch results here that they get very closer to Dutch,German and Danish :confused:

Because some GEDmatch calculators suck.

[Aren]

True, even in calculators who have seperate Celtic and Germanic components like in Eurogenes K36 NW Euros overlap heavily.

[Bogdan]

Most have separate culture and language.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Distinguishing Balts from Slavs is also very easy, except for borderland areas (like North-East Poland vs. South-West Lithuania).



Because some GEDmatch calculators suck.

what about that image? it's incorrect then?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8445/7888154404_42d9f51b92_b.jpg

[Peterski]

True, even in calculators who have seperate Celtic and Germanic components like in Eurogenes K36 NW Euros overlap heavily.

I've seen Irish people who score a lot (like 20%) of Norway or Netherlands, but they still score mostly Ireland.

It is not difficult to tell apart someone from Ireland or Cornwall and someone from Germanic countries.

It is much harder with South-Eastern English people though. They are more Germanic-influenced.

[Peterski]

people talk about celtic and germanic as if they was different ethnic groups apart nationalities

they have a similar genetic cluster in genetics tests

https://anthropologynet.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/razib-modified-correlation-between-genetic-geographic-structure-in-europe.jpg
what about that image? it's incorrect then?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8445/7888154404_42d9f51b92_b.jpg

All these PCA graphs show is that entire Europe is a smooth genetic continuum, except for some outliers like Finland, Sardinia or Basques.

I don't see how you managed to conclude based on these graphs that Celts and Germanics together form a "separate race".

[Aren]

I have Irish people who score a lot (like 20%) of Norway or Netherlands ancestry, but they still score mostly Ireland.

It is not difficult to tell apart someone from Ireland or Cornwall and someone from Germanic countries.

It is much harder with South-Eastern English people though. They are more Germanic-influenced.

You can tell apart North Germans from Scandinavians in K36 aswell cause of the Fennoscandia component, so it's not just between Celts and Germanics.
But there are still many Swedes, Danes, Dutch etc who can score over 20% North Atlantic on K36, higher than many Irish or Welsh people.
However in lower K calculators like Eurogenes K13/K15 it's a lot harder, almost impossible. Atleast between non-Scandinavian Germanics and British Celts. But on the other hand Germanics and Slavs are very distinguished already with these low K calculators.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

All these PCA graphs show is that entire Europe is a smooth genetic continuum, except for some outliers like Finland, Sardinia or Basques.

I don't see how you managed to conclude based on these graphs that Celts and Germanics together form a "separate race".

not a "separate race", more like a macro ethnic group

like Northwest(Celtic/Germanic), Northeast(Slavic/Baltic),Southwest(Iberian/Sardinian/Southern French) and Southeast(Italian/Balkans) :p

[Dragoon]

Average person in UK:

36.94% British (Anglo Saxon)
21.59% Irish (Celtic)
19.91% Western European (France/Germany)



The most British people in England are found in Yorkshire (41.17% Anglo Saxon)
The most Scandinavian people in England are in the East Midlands (10.37% Scandinavia)
The most Western European people in England are in the East of England (22.52% France/Germany)

https://blogs.ancestry.com/cm/british-are-less-british-than-we-think/

[Peterski]

Average person in UK:

36.94% British (Anglo Saxon)
21.59% Irish (Celtic)
19.91% Western European (France/Germany)

Modern British is not Anglo-Saxon. We have Fresh-Off-The-Boat Anglo-Saxon genomes (ancient DNA) and they were not so similar to modern English people at all, because they later mixed with Celts and that's how modern English were "created".

Original Anglo-Saxons are going to get Danish or Dutch, no matter which calculator you use.

Neither are modern Irish 100% Celtic, many have significant Norwegian or English admixture.

[Profileid]

Roman Era, Celtic gladiator, highest similarity to modern Irish and Bretons, much lower to Germanic groups:

http://i.imgur.com/ORhTxQ2.png

There's like a 10 point difference for everywhere except eastern Germany

[Peterski]

The problem with statements such as "Celts are similar to Germanics" made based on modern populations, is that there are probably no pure Celts left today. All the "Celtic" populations today are mixed with something else. Even the Irish have some Germanic ancestry in addition to Celtic.

So claiming things about Celtic DNA based on modern populations is like claiming things about Spanish DNA based on Latin Americans.

[Profileid]

The problem with statements such as "Celts are similar to Germanics" made based on modern populations, is that there are probably no pure Celts left today. All the "Celtic" populations today are mixed with something else. Even the Irish have some Germanic ancestry in addition to Celtic.

So claiming things about Celtic DNA based on modern populations is like claiming things about Spanish DNA based on Latin Americans.

nobody is pure

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Ancient Celtic samples in Eurogenes K36 (the darker color = the higher similarity to modern populations):

Hinxton1 (Iron Age Celtic Briton 160 BC - 26 AD):

http://i.imgur.com/0RwfyPL.jpg

Hinxton4 (Iron Age Celtic Briton 170 BC - 80 AD):

http://i.imgur.com/6vgXRaA.jpg

=====

For comparison here is a Germanic sample:

RISE174 (Early Medieval Sweden, 427-611 AD):

http://i.imgur.com/bWQZO4n.jpg

Where do you guys take these pictures? I would like to see more exaples with other populations

[Peterski]

nobody is pure

But what we understand as "Celtic DNA" = DNA of people who spoke Celtic languages before they were overran by Roman and Germanic invasions and forced to start speaking Latin and Germanic, as well as mixed with immigrants from Latin-speaking and Germanic-speaking areas.

So we should use ancient genomes from the Iron Age and from Early Antiquity as representations of "Celtic genetics".

[♥ Lily ♥]

King Arthur :dunno: :P

[Aren]

The problem with statements such as "Celts are similar to Germanics" made based on modern populations, is that there are probably no pure Celts left today. All the "Celtic" populations today are mixed with something else. Even the Irish have some Germanic ancestry in addition to Celtic.

So claiming things about Celtic DNA based on modern populations is like claiming things about Spanish DNA based on Latin Americans.

The Iron Age samples from England plot with modern day Irish. So do the Hinxton Celts. There might be small amounts of Scandinavian input in Irish and Scots but it's not gonna change much cause the early Germanics and the Briton Celts were already very similar auDNA speaking.

[Peterski]

were already very similar auDNA speaking.

If you use high K calcs (such as K36) then they are not so similar.

Also, you can easily tell them apart based on Y-DNA haplogroups:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/36149-Lombard-vs-Roman-Y-DNA-and-mtDNA-from-northern-Italy-and-Hungary


The autosomally Germanic samples belong to:

- I1-L22 (1 sample)
- I2a2a-L801 (4 samples including three ZS20)
- R1a-Z284 (1 sample, L448+)
- R1b-U106 (including three Z381, two L48>Z9 and one Z16)

One sample was reported as I1a3, which should be I1-Z63, but the SNP listed was Z79, which belongs to a deep clade of I2a2a-L801. So it isn't clear which it is.

^^^ We know exactly which Y-DNA correlate with Germanic ancestry.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

King Arthur :dunno: :P

:viking1:

[AphroditeWorshiper]

nobody is pure

who is the girl on your avatar image?

she have a enigmatic smile

[Aren]

If you use high K calcs (such as K36) then they are not so similar.

Also, you can easily tell them apart based on Y-DNA haplogroups:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/36149-Lombard-vs-Roman-Y-DNA-and-mtDNA-from-northern-Italy-and-Hungary



^^^ We know exactly which Y-DNA correlate with Germanic ancestry.

High K calcs are not any better than lower K, they create many outliers and people from the same ethnicity and background can score quite different. It's like forcing it with high K calcs. But the fact that even in calcs such as Eurogenes K13 or K15 you can hardly differentiate Celts and Germanics is quite telling of how related they are.

[Peterski]

In England & Wales, frequencies of haplogroups to the east of Offa's Dyke and to the west of Offa's Dyke are entirely different. Autosomal differences are smaller but that's because Anglo-Saxons took Celtic wifes (kind of like Spanish conquistadors in America took Amerindian wifes). Still not more than 50% of English Y-DNA is Germanic (maybe less). However, in Wales % of Germanic Y-DNA is much, much smaller.

=====

Offa's Dyke - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offa%27s_Dyke

Sharp differences in haplogroup frequencies along Offa's Dyke:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTm_O_SEB5VgSF6O2C2rzajj-WOGEkJEB01vqOsbjWUHWqtsbBw

[Peterski]

But the fact that even in calcs such as Eurogenes K13 or K15 you can hardly differentiate Celts and Germanics is quite telling of how related they are.

This is only because K13 and K15 have components based on modern samples, which are mixed (there is no any 100% pure Celtic population left).

It is like creating Amerindian genetic component based on Indio-Mestizos (who are only 75-90% or so Amerindian, not 100%).

If you create a calculator with components based on high quality (high genotype rate, high coverage) ancient samples, with a Celtic component based entirely on Iron Age samples, you will get a calculator that will be much, much better at differentiating Germanic ancestry from Celtic ancestry.

Also modern Germanic-speaking populations are mixed with Celts. So it is important to use also ancient Germanic samples.

So far nobody has attempted to create such a calculator because there were not enough ancient samples.

[Aren]

This is only because K13 and K15 have components based on modern samples, which are mixed (there is no any 100% pure Celtic population left).

It is like creating Amerindian genetic component based on Indio-Mestizos (who are only 75-85% or so Amerindian, not 100%).

If you create a calculator with components based on high quality (high genotype rate, high coverage) ancient samples, with a Celtic component based entirely on Iron Age samples, you will get a calculator that will be much, much better at differentiating Germanic ancestry from Celtic ancestry.

Also modern Germanic-speaking populations are mixed with Celts. So it is important to use also ancient Germanic samples.

Are they though? Cause like I said the Iron Age Britons were very similar to modern day Celts. Just like the medieval Germanics were very similar to Northern Germans/Dutch and South Scandinavians. But no one is saying Celts and Germanics were identical but it's very clear that they share a common drift. This can be seen in low K calcs in that Germanics highly prefer the Irish-based North Atlantic component over the Litahuanian-based Baltic. Even SW Finns who have significant amount of Swedish input have score much more Baltic than North Atlantic. How is it that it's so easy to tell apart Germanics from say Slavs or Balts in these low K calculators but not Germanics and Celts if they are as you say unrelated?

This shared drift is also visible when looking at more ancient admixture. Germanics and Celts show almost identical scores of Steppe-WHG-Anatolian farmer with Germanics having a bit more Steppe and Celts a bit more Anatolian. Other Europeans are quite different in this composition.

[Aren]

Look at how much North Sea this Iron Age Celt from England is scoring. It's higher than majority of what South Scandinavians or North Dutch score. And if I'm not misstaken the component is based on Danes and Northern Dutch. It seems Iron Age Brits were more Germanic shifted than modern day Irish.

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 2.77
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.25
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 2.24
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 5.80
Fennoscandian 10.40
French 5.70
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 10.55
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 24.90
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 27.73
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 0.79
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.87
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

[Profileid]

who is the girl on your avatar image?

she have a enigmatic smile

Ilse Koch. She looks nuts there. Love it.

[Peterski]

We should use Iron Age Germanic samples, not Medieval Germanic.

Late Iron Age South Swedish sample, RISE174, in Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 55.26
2 Baltic 35.18
3 West_Med 5.1
4 West_Asian 3.55
5 Amerindian 0.91

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 8.21
2 Norwegian 8.46
3 North_Swedish 10.34
4 Danish 10.84
5 North_Dutch 10.92
6 North_German 12.03
7 Irish 12.52
8 Orcadian 12.54
9 West_Scottish 12.76
10 Southeast_English 14.61
11 Southwest_English 15.27
12 Southwest_Finnish 17.25
13 South_Dutch 18.92
14 East_German 18.96
15 West_German 19.44
16 Austrian 20.08
17 La_Brana-1 22.22
18 Finnish 22.5
19 Hungarian 23.23
20 South_Polish 23.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% Norwegian + 13.8% La_Brana-1 @ 7.77
2 68.1% Norwegian + 31.9% North_Swedish @ 7.85
3 87.9% Norwegian + 12.1% Finnish @ 7.95
4 88.8% Norwegian + 11.2% Estonian @ 7.96
5 84.3% Norwegian + 15.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 7.96
6 91.6% Norwegian + 8.4% Lithuanian @ 8.08
7 91.1% Norwegian + 8.9% East_Finnish @ 8.1
8 67.9% Swedish + 32.1% Norwegian @ 8.14
9 96.8% Swedish + 3.2% La_Brana-1 @ 8.18
10 93.1% Swedish + 6.9% North_Swedish @ 8.2
11 100% Swedish + 0% Abhkasian @ 8.21
12 100% Swedish + 0% Adygei @ 8.21
13 100% Swedish + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 8.21
14 100% Swedish + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 8.21
15 100% Swedish + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 8.21
16 100% Swedish + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 8.21
17 100% Swedish + 0% Algerian @ 8.21
18 100% Swedish + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 8.21
19 100% Swedish + 0% Altaian @ 8.21
20 100% Swedish + 0% Armenian @ 8.21

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Swedish +50% Norwegian @ 9.110156

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Swedish +25% Norwegian +25% Norwegian @ 9.110156

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 8.911830
2 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Swedish @ 8.970505
3 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 9.110156
4 La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 9.126776
5 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Swedish + Swedish @ 9.131763
6 Norwegian + Swedish + Swedish + Swedish @ 9.207912
7 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Southwest_Finnish @ 9.222574
8 Norwegian + Norwegian + Swedish + Swedish @ 9.227006
9 Swedish + Swedish + Swedish + Swedish @ 9.286264
10 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Swedish @ 9.340580
11 La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 9.364460
12 North_Swedish + Swedish + Swedish + Swedish @ 9.384642
13 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Swedish @ 9.438335
14 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 9.454783
15 Irish + La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 9.474867
16 La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian + Swedish @ 9.496737
17 Norwegian + Norwegian + Southwest_Finnish + Swedish @ 9.508299
18 North_Dutch + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 9.523614
19 Danish + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 9.524074
20 North_Dutch + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Swedish @ 9.547451

Done.

[Aren]

We should use Iron Age Germanic samples, not Medieval Germanic.

This is Iron Age South Swedish sample, RISE174, in Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 55.26
2 Baltic 35.18
3 West_Med 5.1
4 West_Asian 3.55
5 Amerindian 0.91

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 8.21
2 Norwegian 8.46
3 North_Swedish 10.34
4 Danish 10.84
5 North_Dutch 10.92
6 North_German 12.03
7 Irish 12.52
8 Orcadian 12.54
9 West_Scottish 12.76
10 Southeast_English 14.61
11 Southwest_English 15.27
12 Southwest_Finnish 17.25
13 South_Dutch 18.92
14 East_German 18.96
15 West_German 19.44
16 Austrian 20.08
17 La_Brana-1 22.22
18 Finnish 22.5
19 Hungarian 23.23
20 South_Polish 23.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% Norwegian + 13.8% La_Brana-1 @ 7.77
2 68.1% Norwegian + 31.9% North_Swedish @ 7.85
3 87.9% Norwegian + 12.1% Finnish @ 7.95
4 88.8% Norwegian + 11.2% Estonian @ 7.96
5 84.3% Norwegian + 15.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 7.96
6 91.6% Norwegian + 8.4% Lithuanian @ 8.08
7 91.1% Norwegian + 8.9% East_Finnish @ 8.1
8 67.9% Swedish + 32.1% Norwegian @ 8.14
9 96.8% Swedish + 3.2% La_Brana-1 @ 8.18
10 93.1% Swedish + 6.9% North_Swedish @ 8.2
11 100% Swedish + 0% Abhkasian @ 8.21
12 100% Swedish + 0% Adygei @ 8.21
13 100% Swedish + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 8.21
14 100% Swedish + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 8.21
15 100% Swedish + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 8.21
16 100% Swedish + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 8.21
17 100% Swedish + 0% Algerian @ 8.21
18 100% Swedish + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 8.21
19 100% Swedish + 0% Altaian @ 8.21
20 100% Swedish + 0% Armenian @ 8.21

Arguably not even a Germanic speaker, could be too early(the sample is dated 700-800 BC). Could even be an outlier or mixed as the Bronze Age samples from Sweden are closer to modern day Scandinavians than this Iron Age Scanian.

[Peterski]

Most probable extent of Germanic-inhabited areas in Pre-Roman Iron Age:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Pre-roman_iron_age_%28map%29.PNG

[Peterski]

Arguably not even a Germanic speaker, could be too early (the sample is dated 700-800 BC).

No, the sample is dated 427-611 AD. It was RISE174.

[Profileid]

If you think about it, no one can really disprove Celts and Germanics are closely related. Saying they were allegedly slightly different means jack shit because we're talking about modern pops. I don't really think we were ever that different from each other to begin with.

[Peterski]

I'm saying that it is possible to tell how much Celtic vs. how much Germanic ancestry someone has.

I'm not saying they are not related.

[Aren]

Most probable extent of Germanic-inhabited areas in Pre-Roman Iron Age:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Pre-roman_iron_age_%28map%29.PNG

Jastorf Culture is a bigger contender for Proto-Germanic, but this sample you posted is from the Nordic Bronze Age.
But either way he does not prove anything, he's still only slightly closer to Germanics than to Irish or other Brits.

[Aren]

I'm saying that it is possible to tell how much Celtic vs. how much Germanic ancestry someone has.

I'm not saying they are not related.

You think a Celtic component based on Iron Age Celts would produce different results than what K36 or Lukasz K47 give?

[J. Ketch]

Many Irish cluster surprisingly close to Scandinavians/North Dutch in calculators. I think the Nordic influence in Ireland is severely underrated, in the attempt to play-up their Celticness.

[Peterski]

but this sample you posted is from the Nordic Bronze Age.

No, the sample I posted is from Vendel Period Sweden. Late Iron Age, shortly before the Viking Age.

[Aren]

No, the sample I posted is from Vendel Period Sweden. Late Iron Age, shortly before the Viking Age.

Oh my bad for some reason I thought it was from BC. But this makes it even more suspicious of how far the distance is to Scandinavians.

In comparison a woman from viking era Birka, Central Sweden so only a couple centuries later. She's basically identical to modern day South Swedes
https://i.imgur.com/pk3ejmK.png

[Token]

Modern British is not Anglo-Saxon. We have Fresh-Off-The-Boat Anglo-Saxon genomes (ancient DNA) and they were not so similar to modern English people at all, because they later mixed with Celts and that's how modern English were "created".

Original Anglo-Saxons are going to get Danish or Dutch, no matter which calculator you use.

Neither are modern Irish 100% Celtic, many have significant Norwegian or English admixture.

Neither are Iron Age Britons 100% Celtic. If you want something truly Celtic, you should look at western Hallstatt and La Tené, from where Celtic most certainly expanded from.

[Peterski]

Neither are Iron Age Britons 100% Celtic. If you want something truly Celtic, you should look at western Hallstatt and La Tené, from where Celtic most certainly expanded from.

According to recent research, Proto-Celts emerged already in the Bronze Age, not in the Iron Age.

According to recent publications by linguists, ethnogenesis and expansion of the Celts took place already in the Bronze Age.

One user on Polish history forum cited recent (around 2010) linguistic publications:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=152158&view=findpost&p=1749127


pierwszą fazę indoeuropeizacji Półwyspu Iberyjskiego, reprezentowaną przez inskrypcje luzytańskie należy cofnąć w praktyce na wczesną epokę brązu

^^^
"The first phase of Indo-Europeization of the Iberian Peninsula, represented by Lusitanian inscriptions, has to be dated back to the Early Bronze Age."


przodkowie Keltiberów wedle językoznawców, oddzielili się od reszty Keltów jeszcze przed powstaniem zachodniej grupy kultury pól popielnicowych

^^^
"Ancestors of Celtiberians, according to linguists, split from the rest of Celts already before the emergence of the Western Group of Urnfield Culture."

And here something in English, "The Language of the Ancient Lusitanians":

https://www.academia.edu/9563554/The_Language_and_the_Religion_of_the_Ancient_Lusit anians

[Bobby Martnen]

for example, a Breton and a Dutch are similar genetically, a French and a German, a Irish and a Danish or a Scottish and a Norwegian

Swedes are a little bit Eastern shifted and French southern shifted, but in overall they are very closer genetically. only the language it's different

French people aren't NW Euros. They're Mediterranean, Romance people with some NW Euro admixture, just like Sicilians.

[Peterski]

Recent research on the chronology of Celtic expansion:

"(...) Chapter 9 gives a short description of the problem of the western expansions of the Indo-European tribes. The chronology of the Celtic invasions into the Hispanic Peninsula is reviewed. The present author accepts the hypothesis that the migration) of the Proto-Lusitanian tribes preceded all the Celtic invasions. He suggests (after Jan G. P. Best’s earlier proposal) that the proto-Lusitanian tribes were representatives of the so called Beaker culture, dating to 2600-1900 BC. This archaeological culture is found intermittently across Western Europe, from Ireland east to Hungary, and from Denmark south to Sicily (see map 20). According to James P. Mallory, the Beaker culture “has often been associated with the Indo- Europeans since there are good reasons to derive it from the area of the earlier Corded Ware culture (The Netherlands / Rhineland region is probably the most widely accepted), which is frequently regarded as early Indo-European. [...] Beakers are also sometimes linked with the spread of the domestic horse (in Ireland and parts of Iberia, for example), solar symbolism, weaponry, and the introduction of early metallurgy - all seen as Indo-European traits”. The findings of the Beaker culture in ancient Lusitania are abundant, so the hypothesis seems to be correct. What is more, the distribution of the late phase of the Beaker culture in the Hispanic Peninsula agrees with the distribution of the Indo-European place-names ending with -briga 'hill, castle (in the hill), town, city’ (see map 22), whereas the Iberian culture called El Argar connects with the distribution of the non-Indo-European place names beginning with Ili-, Ilti-. It is possible to suggest that the proto-Lusitanian tribes originated from the Netherlands and the Rhineland region. There are many lexical and phonological similarities between the onomastics of the Gallia Belgica, which was inhabited by the Belgians (i.e. an unknown Indo-European nation located “zwischen Germanen und Kelten”) and that of the Lusitania. The Proto-Belgians and the Proto-Lusitanians had to represent two branches of a Pre-Celtic population of Indo-European origin. (...)"

In other words, Iberia and Britain could already be Celtic-speaking in the Late Bronze Age.

Hallstatt and La Tene were not Proto-Celtic cultures and were not ancestral to all of Celts.

[Bobby Martnen]

We know exactly which Y-DNA correlate with Germanic ancestry.

And mine (I1a2a) is one of them

[Peterski]

Celtiberians and Lepontic-speakers according to linguists split from the rest of Celts around the middle of the 2nd millennium BCE, during the disintegration of the Tumuli Cultures, and came to Iberia and Italy during the Middle Bronze Age.

Early Celts in Italy:

"Diffusion of Canegrate culture
The Canegrate culture was a civilization of Prehistoric Italy who developed from the recent Bronze Age (13th century BC) until the Iron Age, in the areas of what are now western Lombardy, eastern Piedmont, and Ticino. Canegrate represented a completely new cultural dynamic to the area expressed in pottery and bronzework making it a typical example of the western Hallstatt culture.

The name comes from the locality of Canegrate in Lombardy, south of Legnano and 25 km north of Milan, where Guido Sutermeister discovered important archaeological finds (approximately 50 tombs with ceramics and metallic objects). The site was first excavated in 1926 in the area of Rione Santa Colomba, and systematic excavation occurred between March 1953 and autumn 1956, which led to the discovery of a necropolis of 165 tomb. It is one of the richer archeological sites of Northern Italy.

The necropolis found in Canegrate is very similar to those realized in the same period in the north of Alps. It represents the first migratory wave of the proto-Celtic population from the northwest part of the Alps that, through the Alpine passes, had already penetrated and settled in the western Po valley between Lake Maggiore and Lake Como (Scamozzina culture). They brought a new funerary practice—cremation—which supplanted inhumation."

There was nothing Proto-Celtic about Hallstatt - it was a Late Celtic culture, and not ancestral to all Celts.

[Krivich]

Ilse Koch. She looks nuts there. Love it.
She's hot. You look like her?
https://d.radikal.ru/d43/1808/a1/1b31f70ea4de.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

[Krivich]

This is only because K13 and K15 have components based on modern samples, which are mixed (there is no any 100% pure Celtic population left).

All calculators are based on mixed samples. Adequately 100% you can evaluate those samples that have never lived and do not live close.
Therefore, it is necessary to be based not only on ethnic calculators, but also on history, archaeology and anthropology.

[Grace O'Malley]

Just looking at Hinxton 4 in Gedmatch. This is his MDLP K16. He has quite high Steppe but is very similar to modern British populations.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 30.35
2 Steppe 27.63
3 NorthEastEuropean 24.94
4 Caucasian 15.55
5 Arctic 0.78
6 Subsaharian 0.7
7 Amerindian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English (Kent) 3.91
2 English (Cornwall) 3.93
3 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 4.35
4 Irish (Connacht) 4.59
5 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 4.7
6 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 4.71
7 Irish (Ulster) 4.91
8 Scottish (Highlands) 5.34
9 Irish (Leinster) 5.39
10 Scottish (Grampian) 5.46
11 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 5.53
12 Irish (Munster) 5.68
13 English (England) 5.72
14 French (WestFrance) 5.77
15 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 6.08
16 Scottish (Fife) 6.28
17 French (France) 6.39
18 Scottish (Borders) 6.67
19 Norwegian (Norwegia) 6.95
20 Icelandic (Iceland) 7.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.3% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 15.7% French (SouthFrance) @ 2.66
2 88.3% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 11.7% Basque (France) @ 2.76
3 81.8% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 18.2% Spanish (Aragon) @ 2.87
4 92.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 7.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 3.22
5 65.5% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 34.5% French (France) @ 3.24
6 80.5% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 19.5% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 3.3
7 84.4% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 15.6% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.31
8 85.1% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 14.9% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.41
9 59% English (Kent) + 41% Scottish (Argyll_bute) @ 3.46
10 82.1% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 17.9% Spanish (Aragon) @ 3.46
11 93.2% English (Cornwall) + 6.8% Basque (France) @ 3.46
12 89% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 11% Basque (France) @ 3.52
13 91.9% English (Cornwall) + 8.1% French (SouthFrance) @ 3.57
14 63.7% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 36.3% French (France) @ 3.6
15 92.6% English (Cornwall) + 7.4% Spanish (Pais_Vasco) @ 3.62
16 84% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 16% Spanish (Spain) @ 3.66
17 70.3% English (Kent) + 29.7% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) @ 3.72
18 90.4% Irish (Connacht) + 9.6% Basque (France) @ 3.73
19 88.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 11.1% Italian (Bergamo) @ 3.75
20 84.4% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 15.6% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 3.76

This is my K16 for comparison just because I have no known ancestry outside of Ireland. His Steppe is higher than mine but my Northeast European is higher so it most likely all evens out. His Neolithic is slightly higher but there doesn't really appear to be a drastic difference really.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.78
2 NorthEastEuropean 28.47
3 Steppe 24.76
4 Caucasian 17.25
5 Indian 0.58
6 Amerindian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 2.8
2 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 3.08
3 Irish (Connacht) 3.15
4 English (Cornwall) 3.17
5 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 3.33
6 Scottish (Highlands) 3.43
7 English (Kent) 3.52
8 Irish (Ulster) 3.59
9 Irish (Munster) 3.64
10 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.69
11 Norwegian (Norwegia) 3.71
12 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.78
13 Irish (Leinster) 4.17
14 Scottish (Grampian) 4.19
15 English (England) 4.2
16 Scottish (Fife) 4.23
17 Icelandic (Iceland) 4.28
18 Scottish (Borders) 4.3
19 French (WestFrance) 4.35
20 Dutch (Netherlands) 4.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 24.8% German (Germany) @ 2.02
2 69.5% Norwegian (Norwegia) + 30.5% German (Germany) @ 2.05
3 65.2% Icelandic (Iceland) + 34.8% German (Germany) @ 2.08
4 78.8% English (Kent) + 21.2% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.11
5 82.4% English (Kent) + 17.6% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.14
6 83.2% English (Kent) + 16.8% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.16
7 63.6% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 36.4% Dutch (Netherlands) @ 2.17
8 86% Norwegian (Norwegia) + 14% Italian (Bergamo) @ 2.21
9 85% English (Kent) + 15% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.22
10 72.9% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 27.1% German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) @ 2.24
11 80.1% English (Kent) + 19.9% Pole (Poland) @ 2.24
12 57.2% Irish (Connacht) + 42.8% Norwegian (Norwegia) @ 2.25
13 55.7% Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) + 44.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) @ 2.26
14 86.9% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 13.1% Serbian (Serbia) @ 2.26
15 52.2% English (Kent) + 47.8% Norwegian (Norwegia) @ 2.28
16 70.2% Norwegian (Norwegia) + 29.8% French (France) @ 2.29
17 74.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 25.8% German (Germany) @ 2.29
18 89.8% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 10.2% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.3
19 85.9% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 14.1% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) @ 2.31
20 58.5% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 41.5% Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) @ 2.31

Just wanted to compare his results to a modern day Irish person (genetically) and see his Steppe score.

[Grace O'Malley]

This is Hinxton 4's K13 which is very similar to a modern day Irish person.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.46
2 Baltic 24.02
3 West_Med 11.76
4 West_Asian 7.02
5 South_Asian 2.16
6 Sub-Saharan 0.87
7 Siberian 0.56
8 East_Asian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Irish 2.72
2 West_Scottish 2.78
3 Orcadian 3.88
4 North_Dutch 4.94
5 Southwest_English 5.09
6 Danish 5.26
7 Norwegian 5.62
8 Southeast_English 6.16
9 North_German 7.48
10 Swedish 8.37
11 South_Dutch 10.89
12 West_German 12.1
13 North_Swedish 14.79
14 French 16.16
15 Austrian 16.91
16 East_German 16.94
17 Hungarian 21.5
18 Spanish_Cataluna 22.86
19 Southwest_Finnish 22.99
20 Southwest_French 23.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.5% West_Scottish + 1.5% Kalash @ 2.62
2 98.5% West_Scottish + 1.5% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.63
3 98.8% West_Scottish + 1.2% Gujarati @ 2.66
4 98.7% West_Scottish + 1.3% Burusho @ 2.66
5 59.6% Irish + 40.4% West_Scottish @ 2.66
6 98.8% West_Scottish + 1.2% Sindhi @ 2.67
7 98.8% West_Scottish + 1.2% Balochi @ 2.67
8 98.8% West_Scottish + 1.2% Brahmin_UP @ 2.67
9 98.8% West_Scottish + 1.2% Pathan @ 2.67
10 98.9% West_Scottish + 1.1% Kshatriya @ 2.67
11 98.9% West_Scottish + 1.1% Brahui @ 2.68
12 99.6% Irish + 0.4% Yoruban @ 2.68
13 99.1% West_Scottish + 0.9% Kanjar @ 2.69
14 99.7% Irish + 0.3% Mandenka @ 2.69
15 98.8% West_Scottish + 1.2% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.69
16 99.1% West_Scottish + 0.9% Dharkar @ 2.69
17 99.7% Irish + 0.3% Bantu_S.W. @ 2.69
18 99.7% Irish + 0.3% Bantu_S.E. @ 2.69
19 99.2% West_Scottish + 0.8% Kurumba @ 2.7
20 99.5% Irish + 0.5% Gujarati @ 2.7

This is the Rathlin Islander. He is very Scandinavian shifted.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.94
2 Baltic 27.52
3 West_Asian 7.16
4 West_Med 6.48
5 South_Asian 3.4
6 Amerindian 2.2
7 Sub-Saharan 1.91
8 Red_Sea 1.06
9 Siberian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Norwegian 5.46
2 Swedish 5.89
3 Danish 6
4 North_Dutch 6.44
5 North_German 6.51
6 Irish 7.41
7 Orcadian 7.79
8 West_Scottish 8.03
9 Southeast_English 9.92
10 Southwest_English 10.55
11 North_Swedish 10.93
12 South_Dutch 12.97
13 West_German 13.32
14 East_German 15.24
15 Austrian 15.66
16 Southwest_Finnish 18.81
17 French 18.84
18 Hungarian 19.16
19 South_Polish 22.48
20 Polish 23.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.7% Norwegian + 5.3% Brahmin_UP @ 4.14
2 94.3% Norwegian + 5.7% Punjabi_Jat @ 4.15
3 95.1% Norwegian + 4.9% Gujarati @ 4.18
4 95.1% Norwegian + 4.9% Kshatriya @ 4.18
5 95% Norwegian + 5% Sindhi @ 4.24
6 95.6% Norwegian + 4.4% Kanjar @ 4.25
7 95.8% Norwegian + 4.2% Kurumba @ 4.26
8 94.5% Norwegian + 5.5% Kalash @ 4.26
9 95.8% Norwegian + 4.2% Velamas @ 4.27
10 96% Norwegian + 4% Piramalai @ 4.27
11 95.6% Norwegian + 4.4% Dharkar @ 4.29
12 95.9% Norwegian + 4.1% North_Kannadi @ 4.29
13 95.9% Norwegian + 4.1% Dusadh @ 4.29
14 95.7% Norwegian + 4.3% Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.29
15 95.8% Norwegian + 4.2% Kol @ 4.3
16 94.7% Norwegian + 5.3% Burusho @ 4.31
17 94.7% Norwegian + 5.3% Pathan @ 4.31
18 95.4% Norwegian + 4.6% Bangladeshi @ 4.33
19 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Sakilli @ 4.33
20 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Chamar @ 4.34

This is his MDLP K16

# Population Percent
1 NorthEastEuropean 27.84
2 Steppe 25.37
3 Neolithic 24.07
4 Caucasian 13.79
5 Indian 4.38
6 Subsaharian 2.74
7 Amerindian 1.43
8 Ancestor 0.23
9 Siberian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 5.21
2 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 5.21
3 Icelandic (Iceland) 5.33
4 Irish (Ireland) 5.44
5 Norwegian (Norwegia) 5.57
6 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 6.15
7 Irish (Munster) 6.16
8 Irish (Ulster) 6.21
9 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 6.44
10 Swede (Sweden) 6.48
11 English (Cornwall) 6.51
12 Scottish (Highlands) 6.61
13 Irish (Leinster) 6.62
14 English (England) 6.83
15 Irish (Connacht) 6.89
16 Scottish (Fife) 7.1
17 Dane (Denmark) 7.14
18 Scottish (Grampian) 7.21
19 Scottish (Borders) 7.25
20 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 7.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.4% Jatt (Haryana) @ 3.28
2 94.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 5.5% Siddi (Makran) @ 3.4
3 92.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.2% Burusho (Pakistan) @ 3.44
4 92.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.3% Pathan (Punjab) @ 3.44
5 92.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.2% Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) @ 3.46
6 92.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.2% Brahmin (India) @ 3.47
7 92.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 7.8% Jatt (Haryana) @ 3.5
8 93.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.5% Meena (Rajasthan) @ 3.51
9 93.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.4% Sindhi (Sindh) @ 3.51
10 89.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.3% Tajik (Pomiri_Tajikistan) @ 3.51
11 90.1% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9.9% Ishkasim (Gorno-Badakhshan) @ 3.53
12 93.4% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.6% Gujjar (Punjab) @ 3.54
13 89.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.2% Rushanvanch (Gorno-Badakhshan) @ 3.55
14 93.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 6.8% Brahmin (India) @ 3.56
15 91.3% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.7% Pashtun (Afghanistan) @ 3.57
16 89.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.3% Shugnan (Badachshan) @ 3.57
17 94% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 6% Kalash (Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa) @ 3.58
18 93.3% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.7% Makrani (Pakistan) @ 3.58
19 93.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.5% Brahui (Baluchistan) @ 3.59
20 92.4% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.6% Pashtun (Pakistan) @ 3.59

It does appear that there was always some close connection to Scandinavians going by these calculators anyway.

What do people term Celts though? Are all the Celts the same?

[Grace O'Malley]

I've seen Irish people who score a lot (like 20%) of Norway or Netherlands, but they still score mostly Ireland.

It is not difficult to tell apart someone from Ireland or Cornwall and someone from Germanic countries.

It is much harder with South-Eastern English people though. They are more Germanic-influenced.

There are even differences with Insular Celtic countries and also differences between some Germanic countries. You're more involved with genetics though but a lot of genetics appears to mirror geography.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

French people aren't NW Euros. They're Mediterranean, Romance people with some NW Euro admixture, just like Sicilians.

Southwest and southeast French yeah

but Northwest and Northeasy no.

in the Northeast they are similar with bitish, in Northwest with Germanic. central it's a big mix between these four elements

[Imperator Biff]

This is the Rathlin Islander. He is very Scandinavian shifted.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.94
2 Baltic 27.52
3 West_Asian 7.16
4 West_Med 6.48
5 South_Asian 3.4
6 Amerindian 2.2
7 Sub-Saharan 1.91
8 Red_Sea 1.06
9 Siberian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Norwegian 5.46
2 Swedish 5.89
3 Danish 6
4 North_Dutch 6.44
5 North_German 6.51
6 Irish 7.41
7 Orcadian 7.79
8 West_Scottish 8.03
9 Southeast_English 9.92
10 Southwest_English 10.55
11 North_Swedish 10.93
12 South_Dutch 12.97
13 West_German 13.32
14 East_German 15.24
15 Austrian 15.66
16 Southwest_Finnish 18.81
17 French 18.84
18 Hungarian 19.16
19 South_Polish 22.48
20 Polish 23.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.7% Norwegian + 5.3% Brahmin_UP @ 4.14
2 94.3% Norwegian + 5.7% Punjabi_Jat @ 4.15
3 95.1% Norwegian + 4.9% Gujarati @ 4.18
4 95.1% Norwegian + 4.9% Kshatriya @ 4.18
5 95% Norwegian + 5% Sindhi @ 4.24
6 95.6% Norwegian + 4.4% Kanjar @ 4.25
7 95.8% Norwegian + 4.2% Kurumba @ 4.26
8 94.5% Norwegian + 5.5% Kalash @ 4.26
9 95.8% Norwegian + 4.2% Velamas @ 4.27
10 96% Norwegian + 4% Piramalai @ 4.27
11 95.6% Norwegian + 4.4% Dharkar @ 4.29
12 95.9% Norwegian + 4.1% North_Kannadi @ 4.29
13 95.9% Norwegian + 4.1% Dusadh @ 4.29
14 95.7% Norwegian + 4.3% Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.29
15 95.8% Norwegian + 4.2% Kol @ 4.3
16 94.7% Norwegian + 5.3% Burusho @ 4.31
17 94.7% Norwegian + 5.3% Pathan @ 4.31
18 95.4% Norwegian + 4.6% Bangladeshi @ 4.33
19 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Sakilli @ 4.33
20 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Chamar @ 4.34

This is his MDLP K16

# Population Percent
1 NorthEastEuropean 27.84
2 Steppe 25.37
3 Neolithic 24.07
4 Caucasian 13.79
5 Indian 4.38
6 Subsaharian 2.74
7 Amerindian 1.43
8 Ancestor 0.23
9 Siberian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 5.21
2 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 5.21
3 Icelandic (Iceland) 5.33
4 Irish (Ireland) 5.44
5 Norwegian (Norwegia) 5.57
6 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 6.15
7 Irish (Munster) 6.16
8 Irish (Ulster) 6.21
9 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 6.44
10 Swede (Sweden) 6.48
11 English (Cornwall) 6.51
12 Scottish (Highlands) 6.61
13 Irish (Leinster) 6.62
14 English (England) 6.83
15 Irish (Connacht) 6.89
16 Scottish (Fife) 7.1
17 Dane (Denmark) 7.14
18 Scottish (Grampian) 7.21
19 Scottish (Borders) 7.25
20 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 7.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.4% Jatt (Haryana) @ 3.28
2 94.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 5.5% Siddi (Makran) @ 3.4
3 92.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.2% Burusho (Pakistan) @ 3.44
4 92.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.3% Pathan (Punjab) @ 3.44
5 92.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.2% Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) @ 3.46
6 92.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.2% Brahmin (India) @ 3.47
7 92.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 7.8% Jatt (Haryana) @ 3.5
8 93.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.5% Meena (Rajasthan) @ 3.51
9 93.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.4% Sindhi (Sindh) @ 3.51
10 89.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.3% Tajik (Pomiri_Tajikistan) @ 3.51
11 90.1% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9.9% Ishkasim (Gorno-Badakhshan) @ 3.53
12 93.4% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.6% Gujjar (Punjab) @ 3.54
13 89.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.2% Rushanvanch (Gorno-Badakhshan) @ 3.55
14 93.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 6.8% Brahmin (India) @ 3.56
15 91.3% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.7% Pashtun (Afghanistan) @ 3.57
16 89.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.3% Shugnan (Badachshan) @ 3.57
17 94% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 6% Kalash (Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa) @ 3.58
18 93.3% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.7% Makrani (Pakistan) @ 3.58
19 93.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.5% Brahui (Baluchistan) @ 3.59
20 92.4% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.6% Pashtun (Pakistan) @ 3.59

It does appear that there was always some close connection to Scandinavians going by these calculators anyway.

What do people term Celts though? Are all the Celts the same?
Rathlin boiz overall were closest to modern Irish but had around 2-3% more ANE admixture on average than their descendants, Rathlin 1 in particular had a significant amount more.
What happened that brought the ANE component down I wonder?

[J. Ketch]

My percentages are very similar to the Hinxton Celts, not so similar to Rathlin. Is Rathlin that reliable with it's high non-Euro scores?

MDLP K16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 30.03
2 NorthEastEuropean 26.97
3 Steppe 24.73
4 Caucasian 17.95
5 Indian 0.31
6 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English (Kent) 2.72
2 Irish (Connacht) 2.78
3 English (Cornwall) 2.98
4 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.1
5 Scottish (Highlands) 3.27
6 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 3.48
7 Irish (Ulster) 3.52
8 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.57
9 French (WestFrance) 3.58
10 Scottish (Grampian) 3.65

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.97
2 Baltic 24.44
3 West_Med 11.34
4 West_Asian 4.88
5 East_Med 2.56
6 South_Asian 1.3
7 Sub-Saharan 0.75
8 Amerindian 0.45
9 Siberian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Scottish 2.16
2 Irish 2.77
3 Orcadian 2.88
4 North_Dutch 3.96
5 Danish 4.28
6 Southwest_English 4.59
7 Southeast_English 4.68
8 Norwegian 4.91
9 North_German 7.04
10 Swedish 7.97

[J. Ketch]

Rathlin boiz overall were closest to modern Irish but had around 2-3% more ANE admixture on average than their descendants, Rathlin 1 in particular had a significant amount more.
What happened that brought the ANE component down I wonder?
Later invasions of Central European Beakers / proto-Celts?

[Grace O'Malley]

True, even in calculators who have seperate Celtic and Germanic components like in Eurogenes K36 NW Euros overlap heavily.

They have a megaplot of the K36 on Anthrogenica which shows that.

[Imperator Biff]

Later invasions of Central European Beakers / proto-Celts?

Rathlin islanders were themselves already central European beakers/proto celts.

[J. Ketch]

Rathlin islanders were themselves already central European beakers/proto celts.
It may have been that the Neolithic Irish genes hadn't been fully and consistently assimilated into the new population at that time, the same way the WHG admixture in Farmers steadily went up over time.

[Grace O'Malley]

This is Davidski's Global25 plot for Northern Europe. Very interesting and have people got any opinions on it? I'm going to have to read up on how to do NMonte with the Global25 it really is the way to go for the future.

http://i67.tinypic.com/1z642ep.jpg

[IncelSlayer]

They are not identical genetically and germans have little to no celtic admixture, celtic admixture is mainly in brits and french, not Germany,Dutch,scandinavia etc..

[Grace O'Malley]

They are not identical genetically and germans have little to no celtic admixture, celtic admixture is mainly in brits and french, not Germany,Dutch,scandinavia etc..

Why do they cluster so close together then? Genetically it is difficult to separate Celts from Germanics. You have to remember as well that both populations have quite large amounts of Bell Beakers. Dutch Bell Beakers for instance were identical to British Bell Beakers. Also Germans and Northwest European both have Celtic and Germanic dna. Where do you get the idea that Germans don't have Celtic admixture? One of the greatest Celtic sites is Hallstatt in Austria.

[Grace O'Malley]

perhaps that because both english and germanic people are mainly same people, bell beaker admixture being still a minority in english people.

Wow! You do know that there was a 90% population replacement of the British Isles with Bell Beaker? Here's the study.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/09/135962.full.pdf

[IncelSlayer]

Why do they cluster so close together then? Genetically it is difficult to separate Celts from Germanics. You have to remember as well that both populations have quite large amounts of Bell Beakers. Dutch Bell Beakers for instance were identical to British Bell Beakers. Also Germans and Northwest European both have Celtic and Germanic dna. Where do you get the idea that Germans don't have Celtic admixture? One of the greatest Celtic sites is Hallstatt in Austria.

perhaps that because both english and germanic people are mainly same people, bell beaker admixture being still a minority in english people.

[IncelSlayer]

Wow! You do know that there was a 90% population replacement of the British Isles with Bell Beaker? Here's the study.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/09/135962.full.pdf

founding effects, those bell beakers that invaded britain looked mainly celtic instead of those from austria/germany who were probably mainly hallstatt at that time as skull show...this would prove why brit people look commonly celtic wheras germans,dutch etc.. don't.
This is my opinion.

[Grace O'Malley]

founding effects, those bell beakers that invaded britain looked mainly celtic instead of those from austria/germany who were probably mainly hallstatt at that time as skull show...this would prove why brit people look commonly celtic wheras germans,dutch etc.. don't.
This is my opinion.

No that's not what the study says. The rest of what you're saying doesn't really go with genetics either.

Celts weren't even a thing when the Bell Beakers were going across Europe. You do know that the Bell Beakers were Yamnaya descendants don't you? So they had a large Steppe component to their genetics and the same Bell Beakers were in Germany.

I really don't want to rehash all this again. I don't know why people commenting aren't aware of all the genetics and information. This stuff has been around for at least a couple of years now.

Edit: That was a bit testy so wanted to apologise but you really need to update your knowledge on genetics and history. Why comment when you have very little knowledge on the topic? I've most probably being on this site too long anyway. I just get tired of going over the same ground ad infinitum.

Because of the nature of this forum as well you always wonder if someone is trolling.

[PurpleSlander]

They are not identical genetically, let alone in other aspects (cultures, languages, etc.).

I can easily tell apart Celtic from Germanic ancestry if you send me your raw data file.

Can I send you my raw data then? And you tell me if I am more of Celtic or Germanic stock?

My K47 said 16% North Sea Germanic, 15% Celtic, 12% Scando Germanic, 12% Eastern Europe

[Grace O'Malley]

This is Davidski's Global25 plot for Northern Europe. Very interesting and have people got any opinions on it? I'm going to have to read up on how to do NMonte with the Global25 it really is the way to go for the future.

http://i67.tinypic.com/1z642ep.jpg

Look how widespread Germans are? Germans are quite diverse.

[IncelSlayer]

No that's not what the study says. The rest of what you're saying doesn't really go with genetics either.

Celts weren't even a thing when the Bell Beakers were going across Europe. You do know that the Bell Beakers were Yamnaya descendants don't you? So they had a large Steppe component to their genetics and the same Bell Beakers were in Germany.

I really don't want to rehash all this again. I don't know why people commenting aren't aware of all the genetics and information. This stuff has been around for at least a couple of years now.

Edit: That was a bit testy so wanted to apologise but you really need to update your knowledge on genetics and history. Why comment when you have very little knowledge on the topic? I've most probably being on this site too long anyway. I just get tired of going over the same ground ad infinitum.

Because of the nature of this forum as well you always wonder if someone is trolling.
Real life proves that genetics don't necessary corellate with phenotype, also weren't yamnayas like a quarter asian?my point was that those bell beakers that invaded british isles were looking a little different than those from continental europe despite about same genetics, which should explain the thread problem.

[Grace O'Malley]

Real life proves that genetics don't necessary corellate with phenotype, also weren't yamnayas like a quarter asian?my point was that those bell beakers that invaded british isles were looking a little different than those from continental europe despite about same genetics, which should explain the thread problem.

How could they look different when they are the same population? How could they look different from the bell beakers on continental Europe when they were from continental Europe? Where do you think they came from? Bell Beakers were a group of people that spread out from the Rhine area. Do yourself a favour and read up on the topic. I'm not even going to bother going into the loaded question about phenotype. It just goes down a rabbit warren. Genetics trumps everything of course. Anyway I'm leaving the discussion there with you because as I've said I don't want to rehash this topic again and have to explain things which most people are aware of. No point talking about airy fairy phenotypes when you don't have the basics of the genetics with all due respect.

[Congolese Rice]

geographically they are close, genetically they arent super identically similar XD Celts are well, celtic and germanics are not. lol.

[IncelSlayer]

How could they look different when they are the same population? How could they look different from the bell beakers on continental Europe when they were from continental Europe? Where do you think they came from? Bell Beakers were a group of people that spread out from the Rhine area. Do yourself a favour and read up on the topic. I'm not even going to bother going into the loaded question about phenotype. It just goes down a rabbit warren. Genetics trumps everything of course. Anyway I'm leaving the discussion there with you because as I've said I don't want to rehash this topic again and have to explain things which most people are aware of. No point talking about airy fairy phenotypes when you don't have the basics of the genetics with all due respect.

founder effects and sexual selection i have alrdy said this, the populations were much more smaller back then, this is generally true everywere in Europe, everything i have said so far is true, and i have given you no loaded question, people of similar/identic on gedmatch can look vastly different, not even all bell beakers skulls were of same type, I don't understand what is your problem.

[Grace O'Malley]

founder effects and sexual selection i have alrdy said this, the populations were much more smaller back then, this is generally true everywere in Europe, everything i have said so far is true, and i have given you no loaded question, people of similar/identic on gedmatch can look vastly different, not even all bell beakers skulls were of same type, I don't understand what is your problem.

My problem is that first you said that Germans had very little Celtic admixture when the Celts virtually came from that area especially Bavaria / Austria. Then you said that Bell Beaker admixture is a minority in English people and after that you said the Bell Beakers that went to the British Isles were different than the ones in Continental Europe. I'm not going to even get into the phenotype mumbo-jumbo that people go on about. But that's it in a nutshell. I don't know you nor have any personal biases against you but the stuff you are saying is just not backed up by history or genetics. Let's just move on and hopefully some other people will add an opinion especially on the plot that Davidski has done. You can of course comment all you like but I'm not commenting further as a lot of what you said is inaccurate. I've just discussed this topic so many times so possibly someone else will take up the discussion with you.

We all know anyway that Celts are not all the same. They mixed with different people but they do have ties to Bell Beaker and then Unetice and other cultures that went before them. Celts came after these groups so saying that the Bell Beakers that went to Britain were more Celtic looking than the exact same ones that were in Netherlands at the time is a bit odd.

[IncelSlayer]

My problem is that first you said that Germans had very little Celtic admixture when the Celts virtually came from that area especially Bavaria / Austria. Then you said that Bell Beaker admixture is a minority in English people and after that you said the Bell Beakers that went to the British Isles were different than the ones in Continental Europe. I'm not going to even get into the phenotype mumbo-jumbo that people go on about. But that's it in a nutshell. I don't know you nor have any personal biases against you but the stuff you are saying is just not backed up by history or genetics. Let's just move on and hopefully some other people will add an opinion especially on the plot that Davidski has done. You can of course comment all you like but I'm not commenting further as a lot of what you said is inaccurate. I've just discussed this topic so many times so possibly someone else will take up the discussion with you.

We all know anyway that Celts are not all the same. They mixed with different people but they do have ties to Bell Beaker and then Unetice and other cultures that went before them. Celts came after these groups so saying that the Bell Beakers that went to Britain were more Celtic looking than the exact same ones that were in Netherlands at the time is a bit odd.
so that was your problem, i was strictly referring to looks, skull measurements and anthropology, keltic look home is western europe like british isles and french people , its uncommon among germans,dutch and other germanic people.I don't care if germans and british people share same genetics according to X calculator because they do have their differences in looks, these tests are useless when it comes to one looks and can be easily dodged by stuff like sexual selecion and founder effects.

[Gwydion]

Am I genetically a Celt? Here's my MDLP K11 top match, which just so happens to be my closest single population distance on any calculator:

1 British_Celtic @ 2.125953

I assume that refers to an ancient British Celtic sample but so far have been unsuccessful in determining what that sample specifically is.

[PurpleSlander]

Am I genetically a Celt? Here's my MDLP K11 top match, which just so happens to be my closest single population distance on any calculator:

1 British_Celtic @ 2.125953

I assume that refers to an ancient British Celtic sample but so far have been unsuccessful in determining what that sample specifically is.

yes

[Grace O'Malley]

Am I genetically a Celt? Here's my MDLP K11 top match, which just so happens to be my closest single population distance on any calculator:

1 British_Celtic @ 2.125953

I assume that refers to an ancient British Celtic sample but so far have been unsuccessful in determining what that sample specifically is.

I'd bet the British_Celtic is Hinxton 4.

This is mine.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 WHG 37.02
2 Neolithic 32.23
3 EHG 26.22
4 Iran-Mesolithic 2.18
5 Basal 2.12


Finished reading population data. 161 populations found.
11 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Alberstedt_LN @ 2.487326
2 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 3.205556
3 British_Celtic @ 3.794430
4 Halberstadt_LBA @ 4.586404
5 Bell_Beaker_Czech @ 6.223355
6 British_IronAge @ 6.362268
7 Nordic_MN_B @ 6.961689
8 Nordic_LN @ 7.466972
9 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN @ 7.565519
10 British_AngloSaxon @ 7.758093
11 Unetice_EBA @ 8.650674
12 Nordic_BA @ 9.392256
13 Nordic_BattleAxe @ 10.097156
14 Nordic_IA @ 10.577952
15 Corded_Ware_Proto_Unetice_Poland @ 10.964458
16 Bell_Beaker @ 10.968666
17 Nordic_LBA @ 11.416088
18 Irish_BA @ 12.063597
19 Corded_Ware_Estonia @ 13.719956
20 Unetice_MBA @ 14.017468

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Corded_Ware_Germany +50% Vatya_MBA @ 2.440823


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Corded_Ware_Germany +25% Hungary_CA +25% Unetice_EBA @ 1.443180

I also get a Unetice sample as my top match with the other ancient calculator.

[Gwydion]

I'd bet the British_Celtic is Hinxton 4.

What makes you think so? I've been trying to figure out which sample that referred but no matter where I've searched I've been unable to uncover anything.



Using 1 population approximation:
1 Alberstedt_LN @ 2.487326
2 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 3.205556
3 British_Celtic @ 3.794430
4 Halberstadt_LBA @ 4.586404


I also get a Unetice sample as my top match with the other ancient calculator.

My other top four are also similar to yours:

2 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 3.177464
3 Alberstedt_LN @ 3.245840
4 Halberstadt_LBA @ 5.227808

Combining it with this from Eurogenes K15: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

My two closest are 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 at 86 and 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577 at 85.

[Grace O'Malley]

What makes you think so? I've been trying to figure out which sample that referred but no matter where I've searched I've been unable to uncover anything.




My other top four are also similar to yours:

2 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 3.177464
3 Alberstedt_LN @ 3.245840
4 Halberstadt_LBA @ 5.227808

Combining it with this from Eurogenes K15: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

My two closest are 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 at 86 and 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577 at 85.

Because that is the only ancient genome that they have that is called Celtic and is high coverage. It really has to be Hinxton 4.

That calculator was done before they had all the Gladiator results and British Bell Beakers.

[Grace O'Malley]

What makes you think so? I've been trying to figure out which sample that referred but no matter where I've searched I've been unable to uncover anything.




My other top four are also similar to yours:

2 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 3.177464
3 Alberstedt_LN @ 3.245840
4 Halberstadt_LBA @ 5.227808

Combining it with this from Eurogenes K15: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

My two closest are 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 at 86 and 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577 at 85.

Have you tried this one? It has the Gladiators and more ancient samples? You just put in your K36 results and the highest number is the greatest match.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

I see you've already done this. My highest matches are
91 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
83 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin 1
82 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet) - 10047

[Gwydion]

Have you tried this one? It has the Gladiators and more ancient samples? You just put in your K36 results and the highest number is the greatest match.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

I see you've already done this. My highest matches are
91 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
83 2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin 1
82 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet) - 10047

Yes but it appears I typed in one of my values erroneously. The results are still largely the same but fixing my error my tops are:

200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18 88
200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16 86
1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577 86

[J. Ketch]

Am I genetically a Celt? Here's my MDLP K11 top match, which just so happens to be my closest single population distance on any calculator:

1 British_Celtic @ 2.125953

I assume that refers to an ancient British Celtic sample but so far have been unsuccessful in determining what that sample specifically is.
Where do you place on LukaszM's k36 PCA and/or Davidski's Northern Europe PCA?

[Westbrook]

The most British people in England are found in Yorkshire (41.17% Anglo Saxon)Yeaaaa buddy

[Norb]

'The most British people in England are found in Yorkshire (41.17% Anglo Saxon)' that doesn't make any sense

[♥ Lily ♥]

Average person in UK:

36.94% British (Anglo Saxon)
21.59% Irish (Celtic)
19.91% Western European (France/Germany)



Nah... you forgot the Welsh, Northern Irish, Manx, Cornish, and Scottish. (The UK/British Isles doesn't only consist of English people.)

:rolleyes: :picard1:


The most British people in England are found in Yorkshire (41.17% Anglo Saxon)

So the ancient iron-age native Britons with ancient pre-Germanic genes aren't British?! :confused: Only Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danish and Norwegian Vikings and Norman conqueror immigrants to Great Britain can be British? :icon_ask:

https://www.thehistoryofenglish.com/pics/germanic_invasions.jpg
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/schools/primaryhistory/images/vikings/who_were_the_vikings/vk_map_whowerethey.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/01/25/18/4893A13500000578-5312697-Researchers_have_found_23_distinct_Irish_genetic_c lusters_in_Ire-a-9_1516903595271.jpg

The Normans ('North Man') in England (who took over the aristocracy and ruling elite via the south of England following the Norman Conquest of England,) stemmed from Viking settlers in Normandy, France. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Norman-people

The average English person looks more similar to the average Welsh, Manx, Scottish, or Irish person... than to the average French or German person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuJ6zeMlVSY

[Septentrion]

French people aren't NW Euros. They're Mediterranean, Romance people with some NW Euro admixture, just like Sicilians.

Stop spewing garbage!!!!!The French are mainly a Western and Central Europe people like the Dutch and Germans!!! They do however more Southern European admixture but are not as Mediterranean as Spaniards, Sicilians or Sardinians. That's an outright lie. If you don't know anything, it's better to stay quiet and learn.

[Grace O'Malley]

Irish girl on the beach. :D

https://pics.me.me/what-is-tha-pale-alien-creature-doing-on-a-beach-5172895.png

[Solitude]

Irish girl on the beach. :D

https://pics.me.me/what-is-tha-pale-alien-creature-doing-on-a-beach-5172895.png

A user of this topic said that Keltics had a more western appearance, specifically French, while people who actually had contact with Celts said that their appearance was tall, blonde and redheaded, how a person like that is more physically similar to western people ?

[Solitude]

I'd bet the British_Celtic is Hinxton 4.

This is mine.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 WHG 37.02
2 Neolithic 32.23
3 EHG 26.22
4 Iran-Mesolithic 2.18
5 Basal 2.12


Finished reading population data. 161 populations found.
11 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Alberstedt_LN @ 2.487326
2 Bell_Beaker_Germany @ 3.205556
3 British_Celtic @ 3.794430
4 Halberstadt_LBA @ 4.586404
5 Bell_Beaker_Czech @ 6.223355
6 British_IronAge @ 6.362268
7 Nordic_MN_B @ 6.961689
8 Nordic_LN @ 7.466972
9 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN @ 7.565519
10 British_AngloSaxon @ 7.758093
11 Unetice_EBA @ 8.650674
12 Nordic_BA @ 9.392256
13 Nordic_BattleAxe @ 10.097156
14 Nordic_IA @ 10.577952
15 Corded_Ware_Proto_Unetice_Poland @ 10.964458
16 Bell_Beaker @ 10.968666
17 Nordic_LBA @ 11.416088
18 Irish_BA @ 12.063597
19 Corded_Ware_Estonia @ 13.719956
20 Unetice_MBA @ 14.017468

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Corded_Ware_Germany +50% Vatya_MBA @ 2.440823


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Corded_Ware_Germany +25% Hungary_CA +25% Unetice_EBA @ 1.443180

I also get a Unetice sample as my top match with the other ancient calculator.

where i find this calc