Viking DNA from Sigtuna

[Peterski]

Genomic and Strontium Isotope Variation Reveal Immigration Patterns in a Viking Age Town:

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)30844-3

Summary:

"(...) We present genome-wide sequence data from 23 individuals from the 10th to 12th century Swedish town of Sigtuna. The data revealed high genetic diversity among the early urban residents. The observed variation exceeds the genetic diversity in distinct modern-day and Iron Age groups of central and northern Europe. Strontium isotope data suggest mixed local and non-local origin of the townspeople. Our results uncover the social system underlying the urbanization process of the Viking World of which mobility was an intricate part and was comparable between males and females. The inhabitants of Sigtuna were heterogeneous in their genetic affinities, probably reflecting both close and distant connections through an established network, confirming that early urbanization processes in northern Europe were driven by migration."

Genetic Variation of Ancient Individuals from Sigtuna, PCA graph:

"(...) The town of Sigtuna in eastern central Sweden was one of the pioneer urban hubs in the vast and complex communicative network of the Viking world (Figure 1A). The town that is thought to have been royally founded was planned and organized as a formal administrative center and was an important focal point for the establishment of Christianity [19]. The material culture in Sigtuna indicates that the town had intense international contacts and hosted several cemeteries with a Christian character (Figure 1B; Tables S1 and S2). Some of them may have been used by kin-based groups or by people sharing the same sociocultural background. (...)"

https://i.imgur.com/sKa277X.jpg

EDIT:

One of Sigtuna men has YP331 = R1a1a1b1a2b3d1.

This is a Slavic subclade, descended from S18681:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S18681/

Found in Poland, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Ukraine, one sample in Russia & Lithuania:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP331/

https://i.imgur.com/ftIFSdk.png

This R1a man is the outlier in the PCA who plots between Ukrainians and Hungarians:

https://i.imgur.com/n7DgdCC.png

[Peterski]

Sigtuna is located in Sweden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigtuna

Samples called "Sigtuna outliers" are the ones with autosomally Non-Germanic results.

[Aren]

It's pretty obvious they deliberately chose samples who showed clear non-native signs to test on. Just like with the Bavarian paper. I get it, it's more interesting but I doubt the population of Sigtuna was quite diverse as these authors from the extremely leftist Stockholm University make it out in their abstract.

But looking at it just briefly it looks like two Finnish outliers, three British and four Slavic?

[Peterski]

Rather two Balts and no any Finns. They plot closer to Lithuania than to Finland.

[Peterski]

Just like with the Bavarian paper.

Well, modern Bavarians are significantly southern-shifted compared to those "Nordic Bavarians".

So I don't think that the impact of those "Med immigrants" was smaller than the paper indicated.

Unless there was also a local (Celtic?) population that was southern-shifted genetically.

[Aren]

Well, modern Bavarians are significantly southern-shifted compared to those "Nordic Bavarians".

So I don't think that the impact of those "Med immigrants" was smaller than the paper indicated.

Unless there was also a local (Celtic?) population that was southern-shifted genetically.

We both know that in this paper it's not the case to explain whether modern Swedes have a shift towards any other more distant ethnic group. It's just plain old neo-marxism "see Sweden has always been multi-cultural".

It's pretty clear that all of these outliers seem like a dead end, cause modern Swedes don't shift towards any of these outliers. Central Swedes shifts only towards Finland, but that admix happend later during the medieval and modern period.

[Peterski]

We both know that in this paper it's not the case to explain whether modern Swedes have a shift towards any other more distant ethnic group.

I showed you RISE174 (Skane-IA, 427-611 AD - Vendel Period) and he is not exactly like modern Swedes (distance is quite large).

In this paper they also used Skane-IA sample, for comparison with Viking Age genomes.

You told me that modern Swedes are like a Viking Age woman - but as you can see, there was some ethnic mixing in the Viking Age.

So modern Swedes are like Vikings after that mixing, not like Skane-IA before that mixing.

That's why I said that we can only use Iron Age genomes as a proxy for Proto-Germanic DNA.

[Peterski]

It's just plain old neo-marxism "see Sweden has always been multi-cultural".

As far as I can see, Viking Age Sigtuna was 100% White European.

How is this "multi-cultural" from a modern neo-marxist perspective?

[Aren]

I showed you RISE174 (Skane-IA, 427-611 AD - Vendel Period) and he is not exactly like modern Swedes (distance is quite large).

In this paper they also used Skane-IA sample, for comparison with Viking Age genomes.

You told me that modern Swedes are like a Viking Age woman - but as you can see, there was some ethnic mixing in the Viking Age.

So modern Swedes are like Vikings after that mixing, not like Skane-IA before that mixing.

That's why I said that we can only use Iron Age genomes as a proxy for Proto-Germanic DNA.

Are we looking at the same PCA? I didn't "tell" you antyhing, I posted the paper which clearly showed that the Birka woman was identical to modern day South Swedes. Just like the majority of these local samples from Sigtuna are.
And the Skane-IA sample is in this plot and plots close to Norwegians and Icelanders.

[Peterski]

And the Skane-IA sample is in this plot and plots close to Norwegians

Yes, which shows that modern Swedes are more "Baltic-shifted" compared to Skane-IA.

Likely due to mixing with autosomally Finnic, Slavic and Baltic people in the Viking Age.

On the other hand, Viking Age Norway received some British-Irish immigrants.

[Aren]

As far as I can see, Viking Age Sigtuna was 100% White European.

How is this "multi-cultural" from a modern neo-marxist perspective?

Well the schools here have always taught out that the Vikings brought slaves from every part of Europe and that the centers like Birka or Sigtuna were very diverse and shit like that. I definitely think there's some truth to that but the genetic impact of these outliers is non-existent which is clearly shown by that the locals plot with modern day Scandinavians.

[Aren]

Yes, which shows that modern Swedes are more eastern-shifted compared to Skane-IA.

Likely due to mixing with autosomally Finnic, Slavic and Baltic people in the Viking Age.

Swedes aren't in this PCA plot though are they? And Central Swedes shift towards Finland only as one can see with the uniparental markers. There's no typically Balto-Slavic Y-DNA in Sweden or atleast not more than in Denmark or Norway.

[Peterski]

Can you show evidence that these "Sigtuna outliers" were slaves and not free people? It should be easy to tell based on their graves. There were also West Slavic merchants, mercenaries, craftsmen, settlers, etc. in Scandinavia (we know this both from archaeological evidence and from written sources such as the Sagas or "Gesta Danorum" chronicle by Saxo Grammaticus - though the latter is about Denmark).

Slaves would be mostly from Russia, while this PCA shows no samples with Russian autosomal profile.

[Peterski]

but the genetic impact of these outliers is non-existent which is clearly shown by that the locals plot with modern day Scandinavians.

These locals lived by the end of the Viking Age, so they could already have foreign admixture from previous generations.

Which is why they plot differently than Iron Age Swede RISE174, who plots closer to Norwegians despite being a Swede.

[Dick]

I2a? Bosniensis is a Viking Illyrian!

[Tschaikisten]

I2a? Bosniensis is a Viking Illyrian!

Sample ID Location/Burial Site Genome Coverage mtDNA Genome Coverage Mol. Sex mtDNA Haplogroup Y Chromosome Haplogroup
84001 cemetery 1 (Nunnan) ×3.7 ×108.2 XY H2a2a1g N1a1a1a1a1 (N-L392∗)
84005 cemetery 1 (Nunnan) ×1.03 ×132.2 XY H1ap1 I1a1b3 (I-Z74∗)
84035 cemetery 1 (Nunnan) ×0.2 ×149.6 XX H2a3a –
nuf002 cemetery 1 (Nunnan) ×0.16 ×44.1 XY T1a1j ND
kls001 cemetery 2 (Kålsängen) ×0.13 ×11.8 XY H1b1 R1∗ (R-M173∗)
kal006 cemetery 3 (Kållandet) ×1.2 ×87 XX V7a –
kal009 cemetery 3 (Kållandet) ×0.19 ×124.4 XX T2f1 –
2072 cemetery 4 (Bensinst.) ×0.01 ×1.5 XY U ND
bns023 cemetery 4 (Bensinst.) ×0.02 ×3.7 XX H4a1a3a –
gtm021 cemetery 4 (Götes Mack) ×0.43 ×34.1 XX H5 –
gtm127 cemetery 4 (Götes Mack) ×0.06 ×11.1 XX H1a3a –
97002 mass grave (St. Lars) ×0.12 ×27.7 XY J2a1a (0.6) R1b (R-312∗)
97026 mass grave (St. Lars) ×0.08 ×87.6 XY U5a2a1 ND
97029 mass grave (St. Lars) ×0.07 ×34.2 XY J1c2 ND
stg020 church 1 (St. Gertrud) ×0.18 ×59.4 XX T2 –
stg021 church 1 (St. Gertrud) ×3.4 ×136 XX J1d1b1 –
stg026 church 1 (St. Gertrud) ×0.61 ×367.2 XX J1c2k –
grt035 church 1 (St. Gertrud) ×3.2 ×279 XY H G2a2 (G-L1259∗)
grt036 church 1 (St. Gertrud) ×2.2 ×247.8 XY H13a1a5 I2a2/2b (I-M436∗)
urm045 church 1 (Urmakaren) ×0.09 ×74.7 XY H1a8 ND
urm160 church 1 (Urmakaren) ×1.3 ×299 XY H1q R1b1a2a1a1 (R-L11∗)
urm161 church 1 (Urmakaren) ×0.08 ×19.6 XY T1 (0.4) A2′3′4
urm035 church 1 (Urmakaren) ×0.26 ×240.3 XY H2a1c BCDEF

[Aren]

These locals lived by the end of the Viking Age, so they could already have foreign admixture from previous generations.

Which is why they plot differently than Iron Age Swede RISE174, who plots closer to Norwegians despite being a Swede.

Why would South Swedes plot any different than Norwegians? I've showed you many times that South Swedes are identical to Norwegians.
So there's a great continuity in Southern Sweden from atleast the Vendel period. For parts of Northern and Central Sweden it's quite clear there's some extra Finnish input which is also shown by uniparental markers. The most convincing time for when that would've happend would be during the late middle ages and onward. Cause neither of these outliers plot with Finns actually as you pointed it out.

[Maintenance]

My town! :cool:

[Dick]

Poles with Slavic subclades of R1a (highest frequency in Slavic lands) often have Y-DNA matches in Scandinavia:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=144062&st=510&p=1602949&#entry1602949



^^^ Some Swedes clearly carry Slavic Y-DNA haplogroups, probably due to such immigrants like in Sigtuna.

In 1000 years there will be tons of E1b found because of immigrants

[Peterski]

I2a? Bosniensis is a Viking Illyrian!

Poles with Slavic subclades of R1a (highest frequency in Slavic lands) often have Y-DNA matches in Scandinavia:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=144062&st=510&p=1602949&#entry1602949



Moje najblizsze match'e Big Y pochodza z Norwegii (1. miejsce) oraz Szwecji (2. i 3. miejsce). Jak interpretowac te wyniki?

[English: My closest Big Y matches [he has R1a-L1029] come from Norway and Sweden. How to interpret these results?]

Czy ma to zwiazek z bliskimi stosunkami skandynawsko-slowianskimi przed XI w. (e.g. link1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9Awi%C4%99tos%C5%82awa), link2 (https://periklisdeligiannis.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/harold-bluetooths-vikings-were-polish-mercenaries/), link3 (http://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan/ViewAbstract.aspx?sKey=ac1ca3bb-2232-49e5-b2f8-4292c03316e6&cKey=14dca6cd-3337-4e69-964b-8d8de88a982d&mKey=724c3001-0be7-4c9f-b314-ddac3db6fc2a))?

^^^ Some Swedes clearly carry Slavic Y-DNA haplogroups, probably due to such immigrants like in Sigtuna.

[Peterski]

In 1000 years there will be tons of E1b found because of immigrants

And Aren's great-great-great-grandson will register on Apricity and still stubbornly claim that this is "purely Germanic". ;)

[Aren]

Thus, by combining the strontium values with the genomic data we could identify three groups: the locals (strontium values between 0.717 and 0.732 and falling within genetic variation of modern Norwegians), regional immigrants (strontium values beyond 0.717–0.732 and falling within genetic variation of modern Norwegians), and long-distance immigrants (strontium values beyond 0.717–0.732 and falling outside genetic variation of modern Norwegians), as well as two likely second-generation immigrants (strontium values within 0.717–0.732 and falling on the fringes of genetic variation of modern Norwegians).

Weird how this didn't lead to a discussion from the authors of how there's continuity between modern day Norwegians and the (local)Viking era samples.

[Dick]

And Aren's great-great-great-grandson will register on Apricity and still stubbornly claim that this is "purely Germanic". ;)

This study reeks of Marxism

[Kamal900]

This study reeks of Marxism

Obviously, lol.

[Aren]

And Aren's great-great-great-grandson will register on Apricity and still stubbornly claim that this is "purely Germanic". ;)

The brain gymnastics you are performing to twist this study to fit your agenda is quite funny though.

[İrle]

Has any of them uploded on Gedmatch? I'm also curious about those Iceland study samples.

[Harkonnen]

Technically Sigtuna wasn't Viking anymore since it was Christian. Birka was viking.

[Peterski]

The brain gymnastics you are performing to twist this study to fit your agenda is quite funny though.

Well it is your claim that this is "Marxist science" and they sampled disproportionately more immigrants than natives. My claims are not based on this study because it has been known for a while from archaeology and written sources (including the Sagas). It was only later when the Nazis and 19th/20th century Germanic racists tried to claim that "Wends" mentioned in the Sagas were not Slavic.

[Gründig]

Well it is your claim that this is "Marxist science" and they sampled disproportionately more immigrants than natives. My claims are not based on this study because it has been known for a while from archaeology and written sources (including the Sagas). It was only later when the Nazis and 19th/20th century Germanic racists tried to claim that "Wends" mentioned in the Sagas were not Slavic.

Wouldn't be a Peterski post without some anti german comment.

[Peterski]

Wouldn't be a Peterski post without some anti german comment.

I'm glad that you acknowledge that Anti-Nazi = Anti-German (implying that all Germans are Nazis). :thumb001:

[Dick]

The brain gymnastics you are performing to twist this study to fit your agenda is quite funny though.

In 1000 years nations won’t even exist anyway. Look forward to when the lefties ban genetic testing because it’s “racist”

[Gründig]

I'm glad that you acknowledge that Anti-Nazi = Anti-German (implying that all Germans are Nazis). :thumb001:

Don't play stupid.

[Peterski]

It's just plain old neo-marxism "see Sweden has always been multi-cultural".

Sigtuna was a major town and trading center.

Such areas are always more multicultural. You claim that they deliberately sampled more immigrants - I don't think so. But a high proportion of foreign ethnicities in Sigtuna doesn't mean that every small Viking village was also flooded by immigrants.

[Harkonnen]

Birka was founded around AD 750 and it flourished for more than 200 years. It was abandoned c. AD 975, around the same time Sigtuna was founded as a Christian town some 35 km to the northeast. It has been estimated that the population in Viking Age Birka was between 500 and 1000 people.[1]

In my opinion Viking Age ended with founding of Sigtuna, but maybe this isn't such black and white issue.

[Peterski]

Look forward to when the lefties ban genetic testing because it’s “racist”

Often people who think that they are "pure something" learn that they are mixed from genetic tests.

Which is why many racists fear buying genetic tests, afraid that they will reveal that they aren't pure.

Then they rationalize these findings as "noise" or something like that.

Noise still indicates having atypical genetic variants, even if you don't really have this particular ancestry.

[Tschaikisten]

The Sigtuna individuals were widely distributed, with most falling within modern-day variation of Northern Europeans, with the majority of individuals encompassing genomic variation of modern-day individuals from Norway, the North Atlantic Islands, and England. Some samples show stronger tendencies toward modern Eastern, Western, and Central Europeans instead of Northern European populations (Figures 2A and 3). This broad distribution largely overlaps with the distribution of Iron Age English samples and most individuals cluster together with the single sample from Oxie in southern Sweden dated to the 4th–6th century CE.

Where you see libtardism here?

[Peterski]

the genetic impact of these outliers is non-existent which is clearly shown by that the locals plot with modern day Scandinavians.

This is erroneous conclusion. Someone who is 90% X + 10% Y will plot in almost exactly the same place as someone 100% X.

You will not notice any obvious difference in how they plot after several % of admixture from a closely related White ethnicity.

Maybe if they were 90% Germanic + 10% Negroid African, then maybe you would notice a difference in how they plot.

==========

Edit:

This 10% is based on assumption that 10% of Viking Age Scandinavian population could be Non-Germanic immigrants.

[Dick]

The Sigtuna individuals were widely distributed, with most falling within modern-day variation of Northern Europeans, with the majority of individuals encompassing genomic variation of modern-day individuals from Norway, the North Atlantic Islands, and England. Some samples show stronger tendencies toward modern Eastern, Western, and Central Europeans instead of Northern European populations (Figures 2A and 3). This broad distribution largely overlaps with the distribution of Iron Age English samples and most individuals cluster together with the single sample from Oxie in southern Sweden dated to the 4th–6th century CE.

Where you see libtardism here?

That Sweden always welcomed immigrants since the viking age?

[Aren]

This is erroneous conclusion. Someone who is 90% X + 10% Y will plot in almost exactly the same place as someone 100% X.

You will not notice any obvious difference in how they plot after several % of admixture from a closely related White ethnicity.

Maybe if they were 90% Germanic + 10% Negroid African, then maybe you would notice a difference in how they plot.

True, but it doesn't matter much since like you say it, if there is additional input in Norwegians or South Swedes it would be from very closely related group of people like Brits or Northern Germans. But that's just a possibilty, this plot shows us clearly that they plot tightly with modern Norwegians.

[Tschaikisten]

That Sweden always welcomed immigrants since the viking age?

Well, ''immigrants'' from other parts of Europe are not same as jihadist armies from MENA.

[Aren]

That Sweden always welcomed immigrants since the viking age?

I like how they point this out

If late Viking Age Sigtuna is representative for those towns, their inhabitants did not consist of distinct homogeneous sub-populations, but should rather be viewed as a cosmopolitan group.

But at the same time they opt not to discuss at all whether these diverse cosmopolitan inhabitants contributed to the genome of modern day Scandinavians. Maybe cause it shows that Scandinavians plot with the locals and don't pull towards any of the outliers so it doesn't really fit the agenda. I bet they were disappointed.

[Peterski]

I averaged 9 x Swedish K15 Average + 1 x my own K15, and this is what I get:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

https://i.imgur.com/bmHORVF.png

So someone who is 90% Average Swede + 10% Polish (me) would plot there.

Swedish Average was taken from the Eurogenes K15 Spreadsheet on GEDmatch.

[Ülev]

Who descends more from Vikings?

Do the modern Scandinavians descend more from the actual Vikings (the raiders, warbands, etc.) or do the populations where these Vikings apparently settled and conquered, namely Iceland, Faroe Islands, Shetlands, Orkney, Britain, Ireland, Isle of Man, and Normandy? (I suppose we can include Novgorad/Russia too but I was primarily curious about the Western context.)

There seems no doubt that the modern Scandinavians likely better represent the ethnic stock of the original Vikings (though Scandinavia has received immigration since the Viking age, particularly German/Hanseatic but also Finnish, etc. ) but who actually descends more directly from the men who boarded the longships and set out from Scandinavia?

Perhaps the answer is really bound up with the historical question of did most Vikings settle abroad or return home?



I am waiting if someone will write Poland and will justify that with R1a Z-284 etc, Up! Up!



et voila!

[Peterski]

et voila!

No I'm saying modern Scandinavians have Polish admixture (not the other way around).

Which has been proven by several studies so far.

1) Polish admixture in Denmark (quote: "Polish admixture signal was detected in Zealand and Funen, and our date estimates coincided with historical evidence of Wend settlements in the south of Denmark"):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068857/

2) Polish admixture in Norway:

https://i.imgur.com/b8tknJM.png

[Aren]

No I'm saying modern Scandinavians have Polish admixture (not the other way around).

Which has been proven by several studies so far.

1) Polish admixture in Denmark (quote: "Polish admixture signal was detected in Zealand and Funen, and our date estimates coincided with historical evidence of Wend settlements in the south of Denmark"):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068857/

2) Polish admixture in Norway:

https://i.imgur.com/b8tknJM.png

Almost 20% Spanish admixture in Northern Norway!!!1111!11

Don't be dishonest Peterski, you know very well that ADMIXTURE isn't the same as actual ancestry.

[Dick]

I like how they point this out


But at the same time they opt not to discuss at all whether these diverse cosmopolitan inhabitants contributed to the genome of modern day Scandinavians. Maybe cause it shows that Scandinavians plot with the locals and don't pull towards any of the outliers so it doesn't really fit the agenda. I bet they were disappointed.
So this is not Viking DNA? The title is misleading

[Arborean]

In 1000 years nations won’t even exist anyway. Look forward to when the lefties ban genetic testing because it’s “racist”

Good thing we already tested. lol

[Aren]

So this is not Viking DNA? The title is misleading

It is. The samples are from the Viking age.

[Peterski]

I averaged 9 x Swedish K15 Average + 1 x my own K15, and this is what I get:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

https://i.imgur.com/bmHORVF.png

So someone who is 90% Average Swede + 10% Polish (me) would plot there.

Swedish Average was taken from the Eurogenes K15 Spreadsheet on GEDmatch.

For comparison someone 90% Swedish + 10% Assyrian would plot very differently than Swedes:

https://i.imgur.com/ndsQSgT.png

[Harkonnen]

I1 and N1c1 combo is found from Nunnan graves. Coincidentially these are the graves with highest rank:


The archaeological and osteological results coincide in several areas. Signs of social ranking are suggested archaeologically by differences in burial practice. Differences are exposed between the cemeteries in each burial phase. In the block Nunnan the many graves with coffins and with charcoal imply a more elaborate way of burial practice. The smallest amount of graves with coffins is excavated at St Laurence from all three phases. This could imply that those buried in the block Nunnan had a higher social rank compared to those buried at St Laurence. The osteological results show that the general health was better in the block Nunnan and that the women at this site had the highest mean stature of all the women in the study.

1 R1b is found from mass grave, so this is likely a slave
2 other R1bs is found from Church, so these are likely important men, likely a priest or other hotshot. Also G, A2 and I2 men found from Church.

[Peterski]

1 R1b is found from mass grave, so this is likely a slave

That one is R1b-P312, which is Italo-Celtic. Likely British or Irish.

What about this R1 (whether it is R1a or R1b we still don't know)?:

kls001 cemetery 2 (Kålsängen) ×0.13 ×11.8 XY H1b1 R1∗ (R-M173∗)

[Aren]

The N1c guy is non-local but plots with Norwegians.

[İrle]

The N1c guy is non-local but plots with Norwegians.

Then how do you assume he is not local? Because of his Y-DNA?

[Dick]

It is. The samples are from the Viking age.

Vikings were christians?

[Peterski]

Then how do you assume he is not local? Because of his Y-DNA?

Because of Strontium isotope ratios in their teeth enamel.

These show you where a particular person was growing up.

[Aren]

Then how do you assume he is not local? Because of his Y-DNA?

I don't assume anything...


Eight of the 16 individuals were confirmed as non-locals with strontium values falling beyond the local range of bioavailable strontium: 0.717–0.732 established for Sigtuna in the present study and also beyond 0.723–0.733 baseline established for the whole of Lake Mälaren region [12]. The correlation between strontium values and local genetic variation predicted using shared drift with modern Norwegians (measured by outgroup f3 statistics) as a proxy is presented in Figure 3. Out of eight carriers of non-local strontium signatures, four were also genetic outliers (cemetery 2: kls001; cemetery 3: kal006 and kal009; church 1: stg020), suggesting migration from a genetically distinct region (first-generation long-distance migrants). Further four carriers of non-local strontium signatures (cemetery 1: 84001; cemetery 4: gtm127 and 2072; church 1: stg021) fell within or close to the genetic variation of modern Norwegians (Figures 2A and S3C). These curious cases may be considered regional immigrants who came to Sigtuna from other parts of Scandinavia

Sample 84001 is the N1c guy.

[Ülev]

Vikings were christians?

New research finds ‘Allah’ woven into Viking burial clothes
https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/12/were-vikings-muslim-new-research-finds-allah-woven-into-burial-clothes-6995713/

and

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?209300-Viking-Muslims

[Dick]

I1 and N1c1 combo is found from Nunnan graves. Coincidentially these are the graves with highest rank:



1 R1b is found from mass grave, so this is likely a slave
2 other R1bs is found from Church, so these are likely important men, likely a priest or other hotshot. Also G, A2 and I2 men found from Church.

R1 in scandinavia are from christian monks spreading the gospel

[Peterski]

Vikings were christians?

Yes but not before Season 3:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8U240rJrQY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX0HPtXzWFk

[Lucas]

That one is R1b-P312, which is Italo-Celtic. Likely British or Irish.

What about this R1 (whether it is R1a or R1b we still don't know)?:

kls001 cemetery 2 (Kålsängen) ×0.13 ×11.8 XY H1b1 R1∗ (R-M173∗)

S730 = R1b1a2a1a2c1k
S5239/DF102 = R1b1a2a1a1c2b2a1a1b2b1

YP331 = R1a1a1b1a2b3d1

[Peterski]

YP331 = R1a1a1b1a2b3d1

This is a Slavic subclade, descended from S18681:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S18681/

Found in Poland, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Ukraine:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP331/

^^^
Also one sample from Russia and one from Lithuania.

[Aren]

This is a Slavic subclade, descended from S18681:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S18681/

Found in Poland, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Ukraine:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP331/

^^^
Also one sample from Russia and one from Lithuania.

It's the outlier in the PCA who plots between Ukrainians and Hungarians. Maybe somewhere close to modern day Sloavaks.

[Harkonnen]

The N1c guy is non-local but plots with Norwegians.

Likely Rurikidovich type.

[Peterski]

It's the outlier in the PCA who plots between Ukrainians and Hungarians. Maybe somewhere close to modern day Sloavaks.

I plot close to Slovaks and I'm from Wielkopolska (abbreviated WP), as you can see one sample of this R1a subclade is from WP:

MZ = Mazowieckie (Mazovian Voivodeship), PM = Pomorskie (Pomerelia, the eastern part of Pomerania, with the city of Gdańsk):

https://i.imgur.com/ftIFSdk.png

https://i.imgur.com/n7DgdCC.png

[Aren]

I plot close to Slovaks and I'm from Wielkopolska (abbreviated WP), as you can see one sample of this R1a subclade is from WP:

MZ = Mazowieckie (Mazovian Voivodeship), PM = Pomorskie (Pomerelia, the eastern part of Pomerania, with the city of Gdańsk):

https://i.imgur.com/ftIFSdk.png

https://i.imgur.com/n7DgdCC.png

About the burial


Cemetery 2 (The Kålsängen block)
Excavations have revealed two inhumation burials at the site. At least one of the graves had a wooden coffin, both graves contained charcoal. The deceased were a man who, although he died young, showed signs of having been exposed to physical stress, and a child of c. two years old, small for its age perhaps due to bad health [25].

He was a non-native genetic outlier. More likely a slave.

[Peterski]

More likely a slave.

Coffins were rarely used (so unlikely they would use one for a slave), and charcoal was also not used for slave burials:

https://www.brepolsonline.net/doi/abs/10.1484/J.VMS.2.302719

[Peterski]

It has been known for a while from archaeology, written sources (the Sagas, "Gesta Danorum" by Saxo Grammaticus, etc.) and strontium isotopes:

https://periklisdeligiannis.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/harold-bluetooths-vikings-were-polish-mercenaries/

Now genetic evidence only confirms all other forms of evidence, and people are still surprised. Weird.

[Aren]

It has been known for a while from archaeology, written sources (the Sagas, "Gesta Danorum" by Saxo Grammaticus, etc.) and strontium isotopes:

https://periklisdeligiannis.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/harold-bluetooths-vikings-were-polish-mercenaries/

Now genetic evidence only confirms all other forms of evidence, and people are still surprised. Weird.

This post-Christianity though. Not sure how "Viking" the way of life would've been in Sigtuna at that time.

[Peterski]

This post-Christianity though.

There is also Slavic toponymy in some parts of Denmark.

I think - at least in Denmark - Slavic influence predates Christianity.

When exactly was Christianity adopted by Swedish people?

[Aren]

There is also Slavic toponymy in some parts of Denmark.

I think - at least in Denmark - Slavic influence predates Christianity.

When exactly was Christianity adopted by Swedish people?

Difficult to say but already druing the early Viking era some areas were Christian. Though sometime during the 11th century is when it was firmly established.

[Peterski]

Slaves were buried in mass graves with no coffins, like this R1b-P312 (Italo-Celtic branch of R1b) sample:


97002 mass grave (St. Lars) ×0.12 ×27.7 XY J2a1a (0.6) R1b (R-P312∗)

Most likely all of R1b-P312 in Scandinavia today comes from British-Irish immigrants. Why do I think so? Because none of autosomally fully Germanic Migration Period (Late Iron Age) Germanic samples had P312. All of "pure" Lombards had no surprises in Y-DNA:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/36149-Lombard-vs-Roman-Y-DNA-and-mtDNA-from-northern-Italy-and-Hungary


The autosomally Germanic samples belong to:

- I1-L22 (1 sample)
- I2a2a-L801 (4 samples including three ZS20)
- R1a-Z284 (1 sample, L448+)
- R1b-U106 (including three Z381, two L48>Z9 and one Z16)

One sample was reported as I1a3, which should be I1-Z63, but the SNP listed was Z79, which belongs to a deep clade of I2a2a-L801. So it isn't clear which it is.

[Aren]

Slaves were buried in mass graves with no coffins, like this R1b-P312 (Italo-Celtic branch of R1b) sample:



Most likely all of R1b-P312 in Scandinavia today comes from British-Irish immigrants. Why do I think so? Because none of autosomally fully Germanic Migration Period (Late Iron Age) Germanic samples had P312. All of "pure" Lombards had no surprises in Y-DNA:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/36149-Lombard-vs-Roman-Y-DNA-and-mtDNA-from-northern-Italy-and-Hungary

I'm pretty sure several of the P312 samples from the recent Icelandic study plotted with Scandinavians.
There's also a Nordic cluster of P312.

[Peterski]

I'm pretty sure several of the P312 samples from the recent Icelandic study plotted with Scandinavians.

Does not matter because we know that there was Irish and British immigration to Iceland as well.

So there is no compelling evidence that this P312 was originally Nordic rather than brought from Ireland.

In the Polish Project on FTDNA there are some Polish people with Ashkenazi Y-DNA who score 0% Jewish autosomal DNA - because admixture happened many generations ago and all of Jewish autosomal DNA has been lost in recombination throughout generations.

Same could happen in Iceland. Or even back in some of heavily Norse-inhabited parts of Britain.


There's also a Nordic cluster of P312.

How old is it in terms of TMRCA and formation age?

If it is not older than the Viking Age, then they can all be descended from one lucky British immigrant.

[Aren]

Does not matter because we know that there was Irish and British immigration to Iceland as well.

So there is no compelling evidence that this P312 was originally Nordic rather than brought from Ireland etc.

In the Polish Project on FTDNA there are Polish people with Ashkenazi Jewish Y-DNA, who score 0% Jewish autosomal DNA - because admixture happened many generations ago and all of Jewish autosomal DNA has been lost in recombination throughout generations.

Same could happen in Iceland. Or even back in some of heavily Norse-inhabited parts of Britain.



How old is it in terms of TMRCA and formation age?

If it is not older than the Viking Age, then they can all be descended from one lucky Irish immigrant.

There were recent arrivals in the Icelandic study who were P312 and clustered with Scandinavians. I don't think it was a major subclade but we don't have that many Iron Age or viking era Scandinavian remians so far to tell. Neither any DNA from the Scandinavian Bell Beakers.

The Scandinavian subcalde is R1b-312 > R-Y10827 with a TMRCA of 1600 ybp, so predating the Viking era. Basically only Scandinavians in this subclade.

[Peterski]

There were recent arrivals in the Icelandic study who were P312 and clustered with Scandinavians. I don't think it was a major subclade but we don't have that many Iron Age or viking era Scandinavian remians so far to tell. Neither any DNA from the Scandinavian Bell Beakers.

The Scandinavian subcalde is R1b-312 > R-Y10827 with a TMRCA of 1600 ybp, so predating the Viking era. Basically only Scandinavians in this subclade.

I suppose that Scandinavian Beakers were mostly R1b-U106 (after all Corded Ware was R1a, not U106).

And I remember that you also mentioned one more Swedish R1b subclade, that is neither U106 nor P312.

[Aren]

I suppose that Scandinavian Beakers were mostly R1b-U106 (after all Corded Ware was R1a, not U106).

And I remember that you also mentioned one more Swedish R1b subclade, that is neither U106 nor P312.

One Battle Axe sample from Southern Sweden is U106, in fact I believe it's the oldest U106 found so far. Though it's disputed whether the burial was typically Battle Axe/Corded Ware.
Though the Battle Axe burials particularly in Sweden resembled that of the Bell Beakers.

[Harkonnen]

N1c1 guy has been confirmed as Y4341+, so he was indeed a Rurikid.

Here is his K36:

Basque 0.85 Pct
Central_Euro 9.04 Pct
East_Central_Euro 10.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 21.14 Pct
French 7.80 Pct
Iberian 6.60 Pct
Italian 2.11 Pct
North_Atlantic 14.64 Pct
North_Sea 23.07 Pct

Modern German and Swede from Södermanland for reference sake,

German:

0.47% - Central_African
4.10% - Central_Euro
5.45% - East_Balkan
10.07% - East_Central_Euro
0.01% - East_Med
1.86% - Eastern_Euro
10.33% - Fennoscandian
11.15% - French
3.59% - Iberian
8.31% - Italian
15.48% - North_Atlantic
27.77% - North_Sea
1.19% - South_Central_Asian
0.21% - Volga-Ural


Swede:

Amerindian 0.09%
Basque 0.61%
Central_Euro 6.61%
East_Balkan 7.24%
East_Central_Euro 4.26%
Eastern_Euro 8.55%
Fennoscandian 27.56%
French 2.07%
Iberian 6.84%
North_Atlantic 13.91%
North_Sea 21.41%
Oceanian 0.28%
Volga-Ural 0.55%

[Dick]

N1c1 guy has been confirmed as Y4341+, so he was indeed a Rurikid.

He was Royalty?

[Harkonnen]

He was Royalty?

I've no idea but if I had to guess, I'd guess he was no hc royalty. Just belonged to Rurikid branch of N1c1.

[Aren]

N1c1 guy has been confirmed as Y4341+, so he was indeed a Rurikid.

Here is his K36:

Basque 0.85 Pct
Central_Euro 9.04 Pct
East_Central_Euro 10.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 21.14 Pct
French 7.80 Pct
Iberian 6.60 Pct
Italian 2.11 Pct
North_Atlantic 14.64 Pct
North_Sea 23.07 Pct

Modern German and Swede from Södermanland for reference sake,

German:

0.47% - Central_African
4.10% - Central_Euro
5.45% - East_Balkan
10.07% - East_Central_Euro
0.01% - East_Med
1.86% - Eastern_Euro
10.33% - Fennoscandian
11.15% - French
3.59% - Iberian
8.31% - Italian
15.48% - North_Atlantic
27.77% - North_Sea
1.19% - South_Central_Asian
0.21% - Volga-Ural


Swede:

Amerindian 0.09%
Basque 0.61%
Central_Euro 6.61%
East_Balkan 7.24%
East_Central_Euro 4.26%
Eastern_Euro 8.55%
Fennoscandian 27.56%
French 2.07%
Iberian 6.84%
North_Atlantic 13.91%
North_Sea 21.41%
Oceanian 0.28%
Volga-Ural 0.55%

Yeah looks like within the variation of South-Central Scandinavia. Although slightly higher Fennoscandia for someone from Götaland.

The Swede from Södermanland scores quite typical for his region and Eastern Svealand as a whole.

[Harkonnen]

N1c1 guy has been confirmed as Y4341+, so he was indeed a Rurikid.

Here is his K36:

Basque 0.85 Pct
Central_Euro 9.04 Pct
East_Central_Euro 10.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 21.14 Pct
French 7.80 Pct
Iberian 6.60 Pct
Italian 2.11 Pct
North_Atlantic 14.64 Pct
North_Sea 23.07 Pct

Modern German and Swede from Södermanland for reference sake,

German:

0.47% - Central_African
4.10% - Central_Euro
5.45% - East_Balkan
10.07% - East_Central_Euro
0.01% - East_Med
1.86% - Eastern_Euro
10.33% - Fennoscandian
11.15% - French
3.59% - Iberian
8.31% - Italian
15.48% - North_Atlantic
27.77% - North_Sea
1.19% - South_Central_Asian
0.21% - Volga-Ural


Swede:

Amerindian 0.09%
Basque 0.61%
Central_Euro 6.61%
East_Balkan 7.24%
East_Central_Euro 4.26%
Eastern_Euro 8.55%
Fennoscandian 27.56%
French 2.07%
Iberian 6.84%
North_Atlantic 13.91%
North_Sea 21.41%
Oceanian 0.28%
Volga-Ural 0.55%

A little correction here. The result I posted as for modern German was actually for medival Alemanni.

[Bobby Martnen]

Are there any I1 Übermenschen in this study?

[Harkonnen]

Are there any I1 Übermenschen in this study?

84005 was I1. He was found from same Nunnan graves as the N1c1-gubbe (84001). On the PCA he dragged just slightly towards the Lithuanian-Finnish-Russian cluster compared to the N1c1 sample. On fstats he was also more East Baltic. For some reason 84035 was duper Finnish-like on fstats, eventho on PCA she was like really not at all from Hälssingfors

http://i64.tinypic.com/95zk12.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/5bsrh2.jpg

[Graham]

We need earlier iron age samples from Sweden next, as this time period is not perfect.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Has any of them uploded on Gedmatch? I'm also curious about those Iceland study samples.

84001 TF4194471
grt035 ML9385881

[Harkonnen]

some results for kal006

Eurogenes K36
Fennoscandian 34.48
East_Central_Euro 25.28
Eastern_Euro 20.17
North_Sea 9.23
North_Atlantic 6.34
French 1.89
Basque 1.35
Central_Euro 1.26

eurogenes K15
North_Sea 26.74
Atlantic 17.36
Baltic 31.46
Eastern_Euro 24.44
West_Med -
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Not a Cop]

some results for kal006

Eurogenes K36
Fennoscandian 34.48
East_Central_Euro 25.28
Eastern_Euro 20.17
North_Sea 9.23
North_Atlantic 6.34
French 1.89
Basque 1.35
Central_Euro 1.26

eurogenes K15
North_Sea 26.74
Atlantic 17.36
Baltic 31.46
Eastern_Euro 24.44
West_Med -
West_Asian -
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Estonian-ish result.

[Harkonnen]

Estonian-ish result.

I think she's some sort of Finnic person. On Gedrosia K12 she appears duper HG like

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ex3bc8.jpg

[Phenix]

Scandos raping any Slavic, Brit, or French in their way, usual music.

[Artek]

Because of the good DNA preservation, Y-DNA sample was analysed by YFull: https://yfull.com/tree/N-Y4339/

Aside of big number of Swedes, Finns (or Finnish Swedes), one Englishman and there is also a big branch in Russia. Do anyone know who exactly is tested under Y10931?

[Harkonnen]

Some results:

17.20599 % Latvia_BA
12.000559 % EHG
29.549133 % Estonian
40.328453 % Denmark_LN
0.9158591 % Levanluhta_IA
/ 0.11834407 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_stg020

27.664297 % Cossack_Kuban
4.346608 % Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale
44.12051 % England_Anglo-Saxon
23.391338 % Swedish
0.47724903 % Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO006
/ 0.08638954 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_84001

0.16303062 % Greek_Crete
0.04006666 % Iberia_North_MLN
0.1914546 % Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:BOO006
13.209282 % Kazakhstan_Golden_Horde_Euro: DA29
86.39617 % Latvia_BA
/ 0.18407917 Sweden_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_kal009

[Harkonnen]

Sigtuna outliers seem to be similar to Proto-Finnics from Estonia
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZIHYyjW6IHcvoQtN5B0xBmB_2WVj_OLd/view

[PaleoEuropean]

Yes, which shows that modern Swedes are more "Baltic-shifted" compared to Skane-IA.

Likely due to mixing with autosomally Finnic, Slavic and Baltic people in the Viking Age.

On the other hand, Viking Age Norway received some British-Irish immigrants.

Exactly Viking doesn't equal Scandinavian.