What exactly is "MENA" and why does it substitute some sort of "race"?

[Zroota]

MENA includes the Middle East and North Africa. The region spans from Western Sahara to as far as eastern Iran. That's like Sweden to Chad or something. People from these regions would obviously differ greatly, except people would usually use terms like "looks MENA", like as if MENA has a heterogeneous look. Now "Middle Eastern looking" seems rather plausible (even though even Middle Easterners themselves are diverse), but "MENA looking" is a huge stretch and really superfluous to be used as a race categorization, as if an Iranian and an Algerian are like close, indistinguishable, ethnic clusters.

I mean, according to the definition, these people are MENA or "MENA-looking" (Moroccans):
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/09/arts/rock.184.1.6350.jpg
https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_609,h_343,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:no ne/https://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.5540425.1514725656!/image/1018316866.jpg

But then, so are these (Kurds):
https://www.thenational.ae/image/policy:1.704122:1518511248/image2.jpg?f=16x9&w=1200&$p$f$w=d6aa6c5
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/17015267_10154876252406259_1203834173_o.jpg?qualit y=80&strip=all

So physically and visually, a Kurd has more in common with a Moroccan than a Georgian or Armenian? Lol. Okay.

P.S. Turkey is at times considered to be part of MENA in some maps, whereas the Caucasus is not.

https://banner2.kisspng.com/20180422/qrq/kisspng-middle-east-north-africa-mena-world-map-creative-eye-5adc377becba71.6884210715243815639697.jpg
Turkey inclusion:
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.uoregon.edu/dist/7/13236/files/2016/08/mena-geographic-regions-1i4ouwv.jpg

[lameduck]

it is geopolitical term for racial purposes MAP that Hadouken Posts in best.

[Hadouken]

MENA includes the Middle East and North Africa. The region spans from Western Sahara to as far as eastern Iran. That's like Sweden to Chad or something. People from these regions would obviously differ greatly, except people would usually use terms like "looks MENA", like as if MENA has a heterogeneous look. Now "Middle Eastern looking" seems rather plausible (even though even Middle Easterners themselves are diverse), but "MENA looking" is a huge stretch and really superfluous to be used as a race categorization, as if an Iranian and an Algerian are like close, indistinguishable, ethnic clusters.

I mean, according to the definition, these people are MENA or "MENA-looking" (Moroccans):
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/09/arts/rock.184.1.6350.jpg
https://images.haarets.co.il/image/fetch/w_609,h_343,q_auto,c_fill,f_auto/fl_any_format.preserve_transparency.progressive:no ne/https://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.5540425.1514725656!/image/1018316866.jpg

But then, so are these (Kurds):
https://www.thenational.ae/image/policy:1.704122:1518511248/image2.jpg?f=16x9&w=1200&$p$f$w=d6aa6c5
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/17015267_10154876252406259_1203834173_o.jpg?qualit y=80&strip=all

So physically and visually, a Kurd has more in common with a Moroccan than a Georgian or Armenian? Lol. Okay.

P.S. Turkey is at times considered to be part of MENA in some maps, whereas the Caucasus is not.

https://banner2.kisspng.com/20180422/qrq/kisspng-middle-east-north-africa-mena-world-map-creative-eye-5adc377becba71.6884210715243815639697.jpg
Turkey inclusion:
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.uoregon.edu/dist/7/13236/files/2016/08/mena-geographic-regions-1i4ouwv.jpg

these are not even turkish kurds but iraqi kurds who are darker . of course we turkish kurds overlap more with the south caucasus than with arab speakers . even though north levantines are not far from us either

I also think "mena" or even "middle eastern" are stupid terms . but sometimes it makes things easier too . when someone wants to say that a person looks caucasian but doesnt fit well in europe he can just say "looks mena" when the person is also a bit ambigious and could for example be home in algeria as much as palestine . it is not totally useless but people forget to differentiate too often which is just stupid because there are big differences . I dont consider myself "mena" even . I am ALEVI KURD from TURKEY and I dont consider us middle eastern . I consider myself west asian that is the proper term

[Raslen3]

To simply put it , saying someone is "MENA" means he is native to a country in that region , it has nothing to do with the human races . Maybe you can make the case that there is a small cultural and historic link between those countries but this "link" is often exaggerated . Racially , most corrspond to the Caucausoid race (like europeans and north hindustanis) if we are going by the idea of "races = skull types" which is the view I agree with .

[Bornoz]

Considering Turkey as a ME country one of the most tragic and absurd things on the world.

[FinalFlash]

What?! How dare you make sense!!!

You're telling me that a Moroccan and Chechen arent the same thing? Or an Armenian and Jordanian are actually distinguishable? You'll never convince me that Georgians are not interchangeable with Algerians or Yemenis!

Fucking "OWD" white wannabe "MENA".

Two of the most bullshit terms in this forum by far.

[FinalFlash]

What?! How dare you make sense!!!

You're telling me that a Moroccan and Chechen arent the same thing? Or an Armenian and Jordanian are actually distinguishable? You'll never convince me that Georgians are not interchangeable with Algerians or Yemenis!

Fucking "OWD" white wannabe "MENA".

Two of the most bullshit terms in this forum by far.

[FinalFlash]

To simply put it , saying someone is "MENA" means he is native to a country in that region , it has nothing to do with the human races . Maybe you can make the case that there is a small cultural and historic link between those countries but this "link" is often exaggerated . Racially , most corrspond to the Caucausoid race (like europeans and north hindustanis) if we are going by the idea of "races = skull types" which is the view I agree with .

With all due respect, how is the land spanning from Morocco to East Iran and even the Caucasus region part of a single region? I mean which cocksucker decided to create this nonsensical "MENA" term.

So it makes sense that a Turk, Armenian, Georgian, or even a Kurd to be lumped with North Africans for example even though the aforementioned actually are more similar to South Euros genetically and phenotypically and even cluster closer with them. But NO NO NO, OWD man! OWD bro!!

[Valwar]

I don't think anybody thinks it describes one look, when someone say "you look MENA" they mean that you look like one of the ethnicities from the MENA region.
It's the same when people Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA), which is the most genetically diverse region on earth, in fact it's more genetically diverse than the rest of the world combined. Or when people say "European", it encompasses very different looks, From Iceland to Greece. Same thing with South Asia.

[Kukushka]

Its a more common term than levantine/west asian among common ppl. Think of a swarthy (but not black) person with big nose basically.

First picture seems more mulatto to me. Kurds would be considered mena as assyrians.

[MsSPF]

it is geopolitical term for racial purposes MAP that Hadouken Posts in best.

That. I think the term «MENA» is initially used for geopolitics purposes, designing a region that used to be at the origin of the «Islamic civilization». Of course during centuries, many different kingdoms, Emirates, sultanates prospered in different regions inside «MENA» (which makes our cultural differences) and of course there are not only Muslims in the region but also other religious groups.
The term has just been re-used by some anthrotards on the net, nobody use this word in real life except to design the region economically and politically (very frequent word used in business).
No need to add that many people are absolutely ignorant when it comes to that region, where people are all described as being Arabs & Muslims, the media’s being not helpful and supported by the heritage of many years of «orientalism» .

But let’s not exagerate lol this is not Sweden to Chad. We are different to each other, have our own culture, genetics, languages, looks but are not alien to each either. There are historical and cultural connexions/similarities between these regions that cannot be denied, in that way, MENA could be somehow similar and compared to Europe.

PS : the pictures are really exaggerated

[Kukushka]

http://xn--blkokboken-25a.se/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ozz-1.jpg

(He is kurd, but a look ppl associate with ”mena” lol)

[FinalFlash]

I don't think anybody thinks it describes one look, when someone say "you look MENA" they mean that you look like one of the ethnicities from the MENA region.
It's the same when people Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA), which is the most genetically diverse region on earth, in fact it's more genetically diverse than the rest of the world combined. Or when people say "European", it encompasses very different looks, From Iceland to Greece. Same thing with South Asia.

It can't be a region especially when a large chunk of this so-called region plots closer to and is relatively closer to in looks to some European ethnicities and even central Asians than to many ethnicities of this "MENA" region.

Can I create a new term and label it the SENWA(South Euro Northwest Asia)? I think it would be legit, no? Genetically it makes more sense than grouping South Euros with Northerners or grouping Northwest Asia people with people South of Syria/Lebanon, never mind North Africa.

[Raslen3]

With all due respect, how is the land spanning from Morocco to East Iran and even the Caucasus region part of a single region? I mean which cocksucker decided to create this nonsensical "MENA" term.

So it makes sense that a Turk, Armenian, Georgian, or even a Kurd to be lumped with North Africans for example even though the aforementioned actually are more similar to South Euros genetically and phenotypically and even cluster closer with them. But NO NO NO, OWD man! OWD bro!!

Geo political regions because let's face it , the politics of Turkey and "kurdistan" are more linked to the rest of the MENA world than that of southern europe .

And I don't see the problem exactly with that term , like everyone in the continent of Asia can be called "Asian" although there are many completly different races or ethnic groups , we are not clustering people here but just refering to people living in a certain geographical region . For example when we want to refer to everyone who was influenced by the islamic conquest , then it is reasonable to use the term MENA , just like when we speak about everyone who was influenced by the romans , it is reasonable to speak about the mediterranean region .

And the MENA is not just one region , it is divided into other regions and it includes parts that correspond to other outside regions and it is part of other larger regions .

[Zroota]

these are not even turkish kurds but iraqi kurds who are darker . of course we turkish kurds overlap more with the south caucasus than with arab speakers . even though north levantines are not far from us either
Yeah I know, I just thought the guys looked good. Lol. But I would've thought all Kurds would be still close to Caucasians to some degree?

[StonyArabia]

Its a more common term than levantine/west asian among common ppl. Think of a swarthy (but not black) person with big nose basically.

First picture seems more mulatto to me. Kurds would be considered mena as assyrians.


That. I think the term «MENA» is initially used for geopolitics purposes, designing a region that used to be at the origin of the «Islamic civilization». Of course during centuries, many different kingdoms, Emirates, sultanates prospered in different regions inside «MENA» (which makes our cultural differences) and of course there are not only Muslims in the region but also other religious groups.
The term has just been re-used by some anthrotards on the net, nobody use this word in real life except to design the region economically and politically (very frequent word used in business).
No need to add that many people are absolutely ignorant when it comes to that region, where people are all described as being Arabs & Muslims, the media’s being not helpful and supported by the heritage of many years of «orientalism» .

But let’s not exagerate lol this is not Sweden to Chad. We are different to each other, have our own culture, genetics, languages, looks but are not alien to each either. There are historical and cultural connexions/similarities between these regions that cannot be denied, in that way, MENA could be somehow similar and compared to Europe.

PS : the pictures are really exaggerated

North Africans are often picked on and yes quite misrepresented. I lived in Libya I can say these pics are exaggerated indeed.

[Armenian Bishop]

With all due respect, how is the land spanning from Morocco to East Iran and even the Caucasus region part of a single region? I mean which cocksucker decided to create this nonsensical "MENA" term.

So it makes sense that a Turk, Armenian, Georgian, or even a Kurd to be lumped with North Africans for example even though the aforementioned actually are more similar to South Euros genetically and phenotypically and even cluster closer with them. But NO NO NO, OWD man! OWD bro!!

He's just saying that some learned people got together and defined the region as MENA. He's not saying that he agrees with how it's used.

It's especially disturbing, because the term MENA is used as a Geographic Region for DNA Test Ancestry Components. It's a manmade concept based upon a geographic area; unfortunately, it isn't subdivided well so that we can easily differentiate the regions and people. People normally don't bundle together Italians with Swedes, by a similar measurement we shouldn't bundle together West Asians with Algerians.

OWD is too often used to insult or trigger people, without a valid cause.

[renaissance12]

North Africans are often picked on and yes quite misrepresented. I lived in Libya I can say these pics are exaggerated indeed.

Is there the war in Libya ?

[StonyArabia]

Is there the war in Libya ?

Well I don't live there anymore. I lived when it was under Ghaddafi then went to Canada

[Zroota]

PS : the pictures are really exaggerated
Not really. They just how distinct and contrasting "MENA-looking" people can be. And yes, the Western Sahara to eastern Iran (both part of "MENA") is just roughly equivalent to the distance from the southern parts of Sweden to the northern peripheries of Chad. Lol, I'm not exaggerating.

[Mingle]

West Asia/Middle East and North Africa are both majority Arab. So a term was invented to refer to the region inhabited by Arabs.

[Hadouken]

West Asia/Middle East and North Africa are both majority Arab. So a term was invented to refer to the region inhabited by Arabs.

shut up :shakefist:whip:

[Joso]

I always thougt the term MENA is very wrong

[Dragoon]

MENA is a regional or geopolitical term. There is some overlap genetically, but also differences.

[StonyArabia]

I always thougt the term MENA is very wrong

They should use Arab for Arab speakers. Arab actually means "mixed " in Hebrew or to be dark" it also means "nomad".

[Bobby Martnen]

Because Middle Eastern Moslems aren't socially seen as White in the West, so they get their own category. Lumping in MENA Christians is just an unfortunate side effect of having to not be "RACISS"

[Joso]

They should use Arab for Arab speakers. Arab actually means "mixed " in Hebrew or to be dark" it also means "nomad".

It also means " badass", Arab culture is very cool, especially bedouin

[Dragoon]

They should use Arab for Arab speakers. Arab actually means "mixed " in Hebrew or to be dark" it also means "nomad".

The American census (and its proposal to add MENA) are completely all over the place. It simply makes no sense to have:
white, African-American, Asian, MENA, Pacific Islander, Hispanic. This should be so obvious.

[LocoGorilla]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?257578-Take-a-look-at-my-desc&p=5388598#post5388598


yemeni was here mothafuckasssss bitch ass hoes

[MsSPF]

Not really. They just how distinct and contrasting "MENA-looking" people can be. And yes, the Western Sahara to eastern Iran (both part of "MENA") is just roughly equivalent to the distance from the southern parts of Sweden to the northern peripheries of Chad. Lol, I'm not exaggerating.

Except that the average Moroccan don't look like the ones you posted at all ? if they are Sahrawis, don't say they are Moroccans. Morocco is occupying Western Sahara and they look different in general
The cultural, genetical, physical etc... diversities are real in the whole region. I know Iranians and Moroccans, they are indeed very different. But don't you think your comparaison is over exaggerated ?
Iranians and Moroccans will still be closer than a Chadian and a Swedish person will ever be. Despite the connections between both countries are very low, they still share few historical/cultural similarities (Islam, common historical past as being parts of the "Islamic empire" etc...) things that cannot be said for Chad and Sweden as their cultural/historical connections are non existent. They look indeed different but I know much more Moroccans and Iranians who could pass as each other and until now, I don't think I have ever met a Swedish guy passing as a Chadian. Genetically, Moroccans and Iranians are very different... but they still share few similar "components", things that cannot be said (again) for a Swedish and a Chadian. Of course they are very different and not the same... different languages, customs, practises of Islam (or religions), faces, genetics, history etc... but not different like a Chadian and Swedish person will be, but more like how an Italian will be different from a Swedish person... or a French compared to a Russian for example



North Africans are often picked on and yes quite misrepresented. I lived in Libya I can say these pics are exaggerated indeed.

95% of people in this forum know shit about North Africa in most aspects (geopolitics, history, genetics and looks) -but to be fair about everything in general and not only North Africa only-. Usually, I don't mind as I use this forum for entertainement and not for intellectual enrichment at all. Most people's opinions here are biased because of self hatred, frustrations or trolling and cannot be taken seriously. Thankfully, I am 100% comfortable with my backgrounds and identity
Unlike 95% of non European people here (especially MENAs or West Asians) craving to be accepted as one "of them"... so much that they are bitching and fighting between each other to be "recognized"... and even pretending to be people's they are not... if you get my point ;-) I think our dear member Wadaad called it "OWD" :rolleyes:

[Dandelion]

Euros are culturally and genetically diverse as well. In the same regard one can use the term MENA. It's not without its flaws of course and one has to still keep in mind the cultural and political diversity. The Maghreb countries are in no ways alike to Iran, yet both are called MENA countries. But how similar is Belgium to Moldova?

[Ylla]

I say it all the time but I am rarely referring to North Africa, I have 'west asia' in mind.

[HELLBANIAN]

Euros are culturally and genetically diverse as well. In the same regard one can use the term MENA. It's not without its flaws of course and one has to still keep in mind the cultural and political diversity. The Maghreb countries are in no ways alike to Iran, yet both are called MENA countries. But how similar is Belgium to Moldova?

The people who complain about MENA use the term EUROPEAN all the time like we're all the same.

[FinalFlash]

The people who complain about MENA use the term EUROPEAN all the time like we're all the same.

The problem is that "MENA" encompasses a large, in fact, massive swath of land encompassing 2 large chunks of 2 different continents home to very diverse groups of people. That diversity can be highlight by genetics, phenotypes, religion, language, culture, among a plethora of other things.

"European" is generally homogenous in the aspect in that very very few ethnic groups outside of the Eurosphere have any meaningful ties to general European culture(Celtic, slavic, Med) etc.

European is more exclusive imo. "MENA" is a very broad, inclusive and quite nonsensical if you ask me.

[Hadouken]

Euros are culturally and genetically diverse as well. In the same regard one can use the term MENA. It's not without its flaws of course and one has to still keep in mind the cultural and political diversity. The Maghreb countries are in no ways alike to Iran, yet both are called MENA countries. But how similar is Belgium to Moldova?

I will answer this tomorrow

[MEDACHE]

refers to the pan backward mena mentality

[Cristiano viejo]

What?! How dare you make sense!!!

You're telling me that a Moroccan and Chechen arent the same thing? Or an Armenian and Jordanian are actually distinguishable? You'll never convince me that Georgians are not interchangeable with Algerians or Yemenis!

Fucking "OWD" white wannabe "MENA".

Two of the most bullshit terms in this forum by far.

MENA is a term just like European is. Perhaps an Moroccan and a Jordanian are different but both are brown and Muslims, that is what matters.

Also, nice cherrypicking of these Kurds OP did :rolleyes:

[HELLBANIAN]

The problem is that "MENA" encompasses a large, in fact, massive swath of land encompassing 2 large chunks of 2 different continents home to very diverse groups of people. That diversity can be highlight by genetics, phenotypes, religion, language, culture, among a plethora of other things.

"European" is generally homogenous in the aspect in that very very few ethnic groups outside of the Eurosphere have any meaningful ties to general European culture(Celtic, slavic, Med) etc.

European is more exclusive imo. "MENA" is a very broad, inclusive and quite nonsensical if you ask me.


Europeans are genetically , phenotypically diverse . It cannot be used as an exclusive term. Actually Europe traditionally is not even considered a continent. Far from homogenous. There seems to be this notion that a European has to look a certain way and be pale skinned in order to be a native European. And no I'm not taking into account the later influence that came such as other Mongoloid influence, SSA and Near Eastern, North African. I'm talking about most groups that settled during or prior to the Bronze Age.

You also got native mongoloids in Europe. Actually modern Europeans are racially tied to people outside Europe, linguistically and also culturally in some aspects. They came outside of Europe.


Europe is not a continent



How can somebody be phenotypically European ? Probably because of overlaps which is why people use the term European. But still Europeans in each part look different. And can pseudo overlap with non Europeans... why else are there so many OWD threads around here and why doesn't it take much to find a European that could pass somewhere in the Middle East ?

Same way people of the Middle East can overlap and the term Middle Eastern can possibly be used. Despite they might have differences.


If Europe is not a continent then people should simply stop using it

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/l/lewis-myth.html?mcubz=1


How exactly is an Albanian or Greek same as a Norwegian or Swede... It makes no fucking sense.

In order to be European these days you have to look central and northern European and have a culture aching to them. Makes no sense. Europe originally was invented by the ancient Greeks,

Since Europe and Asia are not really separated by sea they are not separate continents. They are the same continent, Eurasia despite it has many different people same as Africa.

[Hadouken]

Euros are culturally and genetically diverse as well. In the same regard one can use the term MENA. It's not without its flaws of course and one has to still keep in mind the cultural and political diversity. The Maghreb countries are in no ways alike to Iran, yet both are called MENA countries. But how similar is Belgium to Moldova?

Europe is not even a continent per say but was created BECAUSE europeans share so many things . europe is not that big and europeans overlap with each other . yes you are a lot closer to moldova than I am to yemen for example

"MENA" = 2 different continents

unlike europeans we never made this term for us . it is given to us by others just because most of the countries are mostly muslim . yet there are big differences and many different ethnicities inhabitating those areas

europeans are a lot more similar to each other . it is apples and oranges . also europeans like to use the term to describe themselves. we dont . why do we have to accept something only because it is thrown in our direction ? it doesnt even make any sense . I am genetically , geographically closer to cypriots and georgians than I am to yemenis and others so why do I have to be in a group that I dont even have overlap with ? sometimes Georgia is also considered MENA btw. xD thats laughable and even more retarded

[Hadouken]

Also, nice cherrypicking of these Kurds OP did :rolleyes:

it is not cherrypicked . I also showed a trillion kurds myself . you just have a wrong image in your head . not our fault

"MENA" is bullshit . I know many of you will still use it . so be it

[HELLBANIAN]

People of the Middle East are just as close to each other if not even closer as Europeans are if we go by these maps

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

https://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png


Many of people of the Middle East also have similar racial characteristics if you read Coon. They don't look much different from each other than Europeans do to one another. I'd say Europeans are less homogenous actually.

Those maps, at least the first are also lacking some groups btw... I would of liked Turks, Kurds, Pashtuns etc added.

[Bornoz]

People of the Middle East are just as close to each other if not even closer as Europeans are if we go by these maps

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

https://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png


Many of people of the Middle East also have similar racial characteristics if you read Coon. They don't look much different from each other than Europeans do to one another. I'd say Europeans are less homogenous actually.

Those maps, at least the first are also lacking some groups btw... I would of liked Turks, Kurds, Pashtuns etc added.

We exist on this chart. Can't you see the Purple point next to Abkhazians?

[Abdelnour]

North Africans are often picked on and yes quite misrepresented. I lived in Libya I can say these pics are exaggerated indeed.

I think that is because there is an agenda by some users that want to distance themselves from North Africans, even though most coastal North Africans have less than 10 percent SSA.

[MsSPF]

I think that is because there is an agenda by some users that want to distance themselves from North Africans, even though most coastal North Africans have less than 10 percent SSA.

Yup. Quite pathetic I must say as it is coming mostly from Middle Easterners/West Asians. Looks like a stupid & dumb competition of who will be "the closest to Europeans" or the "lightest"
Most members are over-pointing/exegerating the SSA admixture of North Africans in order to distance themselves from them (or sometimes the opposit, I saw it frequently on some Latin Americans members who pretend to look North African or have "North African backgrounds" while in general they don't). They use it as an argument. Being SSA admixed or related to them in any way is like a phobia for most members in this forum

About our %, it depends of the region (North have less SSA, South have more SSA) and the calculator. On 23andme, you will barely find a North African with more than 4% SSA. In some gedmatch calculators, it will be between 10% and 20%, but sometimes less between 4 and 10%.
The truth is the average coastal North African feel no affinity (when it's not racism...nothing to be proud of) with Subsaharan Africa whether it's culturally, genetically or physically. Our SSA is really ancient and for most coastal Maghrebis, you can't even tell they are admixed physically
It should be a little bit different for Southern and/or Saharan regions though

The urge of some members here to associate us with them is just the result of anthrotardism & psychosis (and probably a little bit of self hatred and insecurities) and not the reflection of reality

[Chaos One]

Yup. Quite pathetic I must say as it is coming mostly from Middle Easterners/West Asians. Looks like a stupid & dumb competition of who will be "the closest to Europeans" or the "lightest"
Most members are over-pointing/exegerating the SSA admixture of North Africans in order to distance themselves from them (or sometimes the opposit, I saw it frequently on some Latin Americans members who pretend to look North African or have "North African backgrounds" while in general they don't). They use it as an argument. Being SSA admixed or related to them in any way is like a phobia for most members in this forum

About our %, it depends of the region (North have less SSA, South have more SSA) and the calculator. On 23andme, you will barely find a North African with more than 4% SSA. In some gedmatch calculators, it will be between 10% and 20%, but sometimes less between 4 and 10%.
The truth is the average coastal North African feel no affinity (when it's not racism...nothing to be proud of) with Subsaharan Africa whether it's culturally, genetically or physically. Our SSA is really ancient and for most coastal Maghrebis, you can't even tell they are admixed physically
It should be a little bit different for Southern and/or Saharan regions though

The urge of some members here to associate us with them is just the result of anthrotardism & psychosis (and probably a little bit of self hatred and insecurities) and not the reflection of reality

Well, hardly any South American has Maghrebi background or even say it. Believe me, most of them tend to be Moroccan Jews, and they are really hard to find even in Brazil. I'm an exception, but I'm in fact one since I'm not saying my SSA background is Berber, but pure NA in fact - Moriscos who went back to Morocco, in fact. My SSA Still at 10%, anyway (as my North African too).

But I must agree that people tend to push Maghrebis as a solid group when they change a lot moving North-South. It's unfair to compare a Kabylie/Riffian with a Western Saharan.

[HELLBANIAN]

We exist on this chart. Can't you see the Purple point next to Abkhazians?

No, I cannot see Turks in the first.

Edit: now I see it

Balkan Turks are turkified Balkanites?

[Hadouken]

No, I cannot see Turks in the first.

above georgians in purple

[Kukushka]

People of the Middle East are just as close to each other if not even closer as Europeans are if we go by these maps

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

https://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png


Many of people of the Middle East also have similar racial characteristics if you read Coon. They don't look much different from each other than Europeans do to one another. I'd say Europeans are less homogenous actually.

Those maps, at least the first are also lacking some groups btw... I would of liked Turks, Kurds, Pashtuns etc added.

Imperalists want to separate menas with the continiuous "who is whiter?"-discussions..

[HELLBANIAN]

above georgians in purple

Balkan Turks seem to cluster with Balkanites. Interesting.

[HELLBANIAN]

Imperalists want to separate menas with the continiuous "who is whiter?"-discussions..

I don't care about white. There are differences and overlaps between people of the Middle East same way for Europeans... Albanian culture , even Malsor, is nothing similar to Norwegian for example. We share a common Indo European language but we do that with Kurds and Armenians too. Many linguists linked Armenian with Greek and Albanian for example. European is just as useless. It has created many OWDs who want to be seen as European by being as similar as possible to people of the North because that is what being European these days is seen as. This is why you see many South Euros argue who is whitest. And as if there can be no similarities with people outside of European borders.

[Hadouken]

Balkan Turks seem to cluster with Balkanites. Interesting.

I dont think they are necessarily balkan turks

look at georgians , iranians , armenians etc. ...all cluster close to europe in your map

[HELLBANIAN]

I dont think they are necessarily balkan turks

look at georgians , iranians , armenians etc. ...all cluster close to europe in your map

It says Balkan Turks in the first map next to Albanians from Serbia. Regular turks are more distant.

Those other people you mentioned are close to European Jews and some southern euros indeed... when you zoom in on the map they don't cluster with each other. This includes also other populations In that map including European. You can find zoomed in map in the other thread I made.

In 2nd map you can see Kurds are closer to South Caucasians than to middle eastern ... I'd say both middle eastern and Europe are just geographical areas... I don't understand what is supposed to be a European in this case. It's a large geographical area with different people.

[Jana]

Yes, Balkan Turks are predominately Balkan, followed by Turkic and Anatolian input.

[Hadouken]

It says Balkan Turks in the first map next to Albanians from Serbia. Regular turks are more distant.

Those other people you mentioned are close to European Jews and some southern euros indeed... when you zoom in on the map they don't cluster with each other. This includes also other populations In that map including European. You can find zoomed in map in the other thread I made.

In 2nd map you can see Kurds are closer to South Caucasians than to middle eastern ... I'd say both middle eastern and Europe are just geographical areas... I don't understand what is supposed to be a European in this case. It's a large geographical area with different people.

europeans are more close to each other than "MENA" are . and if you look at how small europe is and even then you have differences like for example Iceland vs Malta etc. then it makes MENA even more bullshit because we are even further away from each other . yes we kurds are close to south caucasians ...geographically , genetically , phenotypically . I dont have much to do with a qatari/omani/yemeni/moroccan etc. other than being human and coming from a predominantly muslim country . if people love the fucking term so much they can use it but dont expect that we will love the term that is put onto us . I have the right to not like it

[Papastratosels26]

MENA=Middle East-North Africa

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Nurzat]

fact is MENA faces are so recognizable that they can have their own 'race'

[cyberlorian]

fact is MENA faces are so recognizable that they can have their own 'race'

In fact, not at all. There are some phenotypes which are both found in Europe and MENA such as Alpinid, Atlanto Mediterranid, Dinarid, Turanid and even Gracile Mediterranid.

[HELLBANIAN]

europeans are more close to each other than "MENA" are . and if you look at how small europe is and even then you have differences like for example Iceland vs Malta etc. then it makes MENA even more bullshit because we are even further away from each other . yes we kurds are close to south caucasians ...geographically , genetically , phenotypically . I dont have much to do with a qatari/omani/yemeni/moroccan etc. other than being human and coming from a predominantly muslim country . if people love the fucking term so much they can use it but dont expect that we will love the term that is put onto us . I have the right to not like it

Nope. They are not. Look again.

I never considered North Africans as part of the Middle East. I consider it as a geographical area. Many of the people there do overlap in phenotype, same as in Europe. If Kurds are not MENA why would a Sardinian be European for example or even an Albanian or a Greek or a Norwegian.

Kurds are not any more distant from some MENA groups than a Sardianian or South euro is to a Northern European for example.

If people love the word EUROPEAN so much then go ahead and use it. But it has created so many OWD people.

[Hadouken]

Nope. They are not. Look again.

I never considered North Africans as part of the Middle East. I consider it as a geographical area. Many of the people there do overlap in phenotype, same as in Europe. If Kurds are not MENA why would a Sardinian be European for example or even an Albanian or a Greek or a Norwegian.

Kurds are not any more distant from some MENA groups than a Sardianian or South euro is to a Northern European for example.

If people love the word EUROPEAN so much then go ahead and use it. But it has created so many OWD people.

well I dont consider myself a "MENA" because it doesnt make sense to me . I also dont know why you want to compare it to the concept of europe so much . I mean only because europe doesnt make sense to you it doesnt mean that mena makes sense . I am a bit confused . so european doesnt make sense but mena does or what ? or maybe both dont make sense if you want

[HELLBANIAN]

People in North Africa don't look much like people of the Middle East, they have their own phenotypes that are easily distinguishable.

[dark-mysterio]

People in North Africa don't look much like people of the Middle East, they have their own phenotypes that are easily distinguishable.

north african arabs (maghrebi don't know for egypt) used tho look like the non-mixed arabs of middle east but there ancestors mostly mixed with the native Berbers maybe if they didn't inter marriage with the native Berbers we would have more(arabid/middle eastern ?) phenotype in the region

[HELLBANIAN]

Btw , Kurds look nothing like Armenians or Azeris phenotypically . It's same way how Greeks, Italians and Albanians genetically overlap but phenotypically look diffeeent or distinguishable.

[Hadouken]

Btw , Kurds look nothing like Armenians or Azeris phenotypically . It's same way how Greeks, Italians and Albanians genetically overlap but phenotypically look diffeeent or distinguishable.

not this bullshit again . of course we look similar . many armenians pass easily as kurds . we also have armenians in our province and they are almost indistinguishable from us kurds

btw. have you taken a look into my kurdish threads ? yeah we look like aliens among our neighbors right ?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?256050-Classify-us-nr-3-(one-more-Kurdish-set)


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253061-Classify-us-2-(another-Kurdish-set)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?252423-Classify-us-(Kurds)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&highlight=post+people+ethnicity

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&p=4889965&viewfull=1#post4889965

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&p=4917185&viewfull=1#post4917185

full gallery https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthroworld/kurdish-people-t806.html#post10013867

[Alexcross]

not this bullshit again . of course we look similar . many armenians pass easily as kurds . we also have armenians in our province and they are almost indistinguishable from us kurds

btw. have you taken a look into my kurdish threads ? yeah we look like aliens among our neighbors right ?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?256050-Classify-us-nr-3-(one-more-Kurdish-set)


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253061-Classify-us-2-(another-Kurdish-set)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?252423-Classify-us-(Kurds)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&highlight=post+people+ethnicity

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&p=4889965&viewfull=1#post4889965

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&p=4917185&viewfull=1#post4917185

full gallery https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthroworld/kurdish-people-t806.html#post10013867

You carefully seem to avoid the relationship your people and Iraqi Kurds, Iranians have but very likely want to seek relationship with "whiter" West Asians. Not that I care but your people and Iraqi Kurds are far more similar than your people and Georgians or Armenians even. I can very well sense agendas and second thoughts behind the lines.

[Hadouken]

You carefully seem to avoid the relationship your people and Iraqi Kurds, Iranians have but very likely want to seek relationship with "whiter" West Asians. Not that I care but your people and Iraqi Kurds are far more similar than your people and Georgians or Armenians even. I can very well sense agendas and second thoughts behind the lines.

why ? because I said that iraqi kurds and iranians often dont pass well as turkish kurds ? well thats the truth . shall I lie or what ?

I dont understand this need of some people to deny my right to say who looks more fitting among us than others

and no you are wrong . people think like me often when they see our pictures . many said that the galleries I made dont even look like what they think of kurds

I have no agenda . I just state the truth

[ÁGUIA]

Just an acronym referring to Eurocentric term Middle East (West Asia) and North Africa region and peoples, commonly used in geopolitics and business etc etc. It means also a region for the most part bind by Islam and some shared history, and more important it also indicates a ton of oil reserves and natural gas reserves and that is actually the kernel of this. :nod: Don't think I ever heard the term in my life in Portuguese media actually, just Arab world.
Concerning the MENA look and this very important matter in TA, it just refers to the panoply of looks present in NA and ME as it can be applied to Europeans and our diversity as well. A Portuguese is on average very different from a Swede. To ignorant or someone with an untrained eye like myself, not all people of the so called MENA region are that easy to tell apart. It's not unheard of a NA passing for a Levantine or vice versa for example. People have their own distinct traits depending on their ethnicity of course, but to some or less extent saying there's some overlap it's not being dishonest.
In this board well just like in life most are not that knowledgeable about many things, but indeed we talk and talk but rarely walk the walk. If I received a coin for every time I hear some absurdity about Portugal or Portuguese I would be rich by now, it's simply not to be taken seriously.
Confession to make I also have my personal annoyance with "Iberian" and how it is misused around here. xD
Short long story, my dudes and dudettes when I use it, it is not to offend anyone :p.
Now to the beach I go

[HELLBANIAN]

not this bullshit again . of course we look similar . many armenians pass easily as kurds . we also have armenians in our province and they are almost indistinguishable from us kurds

btw. have you taken a look into my kurdish threads ? yeah we look like aliens among our neighbors right ?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?256050-Classify-us-nr-3-(one-more-Kurdish-set)


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253061-Classify-us-2-(another-Kurdish-set)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?252423-Classify-us-(Kurds)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&highlight=post+people+ethnicity

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&p=4889965&viewfull=1#post4889965

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?231895-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B-Post-People-of-Your-Ethnicity-Ultimate-Gallery-Thread-%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B%26%239734%3B&p=4917185&viewfull=1#post4917185

full gallery https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthroworld/kurdish-people-t806.html#post10013867

Most Kurds I have seen cannot be confused for Armenians and neither can you. You don't look Armenian at all and I wouldn't guess you as Kurdish right away, at least not pan Kurdish,.. more Anatolian area.. And I have seen a lot of Kurds and also they didn't look like the people you post. But some of the people you posted can pass as Armenian. Maybe Kurds in Armenia overlap like Zyzz and his brother Chestbrah. Kurds also don't look like Azeris imo.. Kurdistan is a large area it doesn't just border Armenia.. I guess there are some that can pass as Armenian but to say that Kurds as a group look identical to Armenians I think is false.You also mostly have posted individuals in your galleries rather than group photos.

also never confused Kurds for Syrians except for a few times. It is my opinion , if you wanna call it bullshit then do whatever you gotta do

Here is another Kurd, Xatar

https://alchetron.com/cdn/xatar-22ee48ed-3cd2-49c1-b40f-8b625de035e-resize-750.jpeg


Would never in a million years think this dude is Armenian or Azeri


Here is another Kurd, both are known Kurds

https://images.mma-core.com/images/images/original/88833.jpg



And here is a known Armenian

http://allelbows.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/023_gegard_mousasi_img_68991.jpg


Gergard Mousasi I would not guess as Kurdish




Your photos are not group photos, they are just photos of individuals

Also that last link of Kurdish gedmatch clearly shows Kurds aren't necessarily always close to Armenians , either both ethnicities are diverse or it's something else... coz you also got Iranian closer in some and other stuff and not always Armenian. You got even Turkish.... And you got Kurd C and Kurd N etc. And various distances.


You get mad at people just for having their own opinions and when they post a Kurd you don't perceive as typical or claim them as mixed and shit like those Albanian Nordicists... people are free to post anyone they like.

[Hadouken]

Most Kurds I have seen cannot be confused for Armenians and neither can you. You don't look Armenian at all and I wouldn't guess you as Kurdish right away, at least not pan Kurdish,.. more Anatolian area.. And I have seen a lot of Kurds and also they didn't look like the people you post. But some of the people you posted can pass as Armenian. Maybe Kurds in Armenia overlap like Zyzz and his brother Chestbrah. Kurds also don't look like Azeris imo.. Kurdistan is a large area it doesn't just border Armenia.. I guess there are some that can pass as Armenian but to say that Kurds as a group look identical to Armenians I think is false.You also mostly have posted individuals in your galleries rather than group photos.

also never confused Kurds for Syrians except for a few times. It is my opinion , if you wanna call it bullshit then do whatever you gotta do

Here is another Kurd, Xatar

https://alchetron.com/cdn/xatar-22ee48ed-3cd2-49c1-b40f-8b625de035e-resize-750.jpeg


Would never in a million years think this dude is Armenian or Azeri


Here is another Kurd, both are known Kurds

https://images.mma-core.com/images/images/original/88833.jpg



And here is a known Armenian

http://allelbows.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/023_gegard_mousasi_img_68991.jpg


Gergard Mousasi I would not guess as Kurdish




Your photos are not group photos, they are just photos of individuals

Also that last link of Kurdish gedmatch clearly shows Kurds aren't necessarily always close to Armenians , either both ethnicities are diverse or it's something else... coz you also got Iranian closer in some and other stuff and not always Armenian. You got even Turkish.... And you got Kurd C and Kurd N etc. And various distances.


You get mad at people just for having their own opinions and when they post a Kurd you don't perceive as typical or claim them as mixed and shit like those Albanian Nordicists... people are free to post anyone they like.

I posted also group photos in my gallery and also videos of groups . you just need to check it out

my galleries are very representative for kurds . and individual galleries are also good . group photos are actually often falsifying peoples looks

and lol at criticizing that I post individuals yet you post 3 individuals yourself . Xatar is a far east iranian kurd or something and the other guy is iraqi kurd . most kurds I post are turkey kurds and very typical for us

and lol at saying I dont look Armenian . Armenian is the first thing people place me at . you are just trying to cockblock right now . just lol man

[Zroota]

Also, nice cherrypicking of these Kurds OP did :rolleyes:
Coming from someone who cherrypicks blonde Spaniards. Pretty classic if you ask me. ;)

Btw, I "cherrypicked" the most typical looking (Iraqi) Kurds. Most aren't lighter or darker than those in my pic. Lmao.

[cyberlorian]

.

I wonder why people use the term MENA. There is already a phenotype defined for that. :D

[Zroota]

I wonder why people use the term MENA. There is already a phenotype defined for that. :D
Phenotype or phenotypes?

[cyberlorian]

Phenotype or phenotypes?

Orientalid. :D

[Wadaad]

Josep Stalin (Georgan), Saddam Hussein (Iraqi) and Ali Abdullah Saleh (Yemen) had similar mustaches... imagine that mustache on Boris Yeltsin. Cannot? because its a "MENA" mustache.

You dont have to be tied to Moroccans and Sahrawis, but in general, the MENA category makes sense and maybe including Georgians and Armenians into it makes more sense than hilighting the difference of Kurds and Moroccans

[StonyArabia]

At the end of the day I see myself as an Arabian and Arab. I don't really care for other "Mideasterners" like Iranians, Azeris, Turks, and others ect.

[JohnSmith]

I would say MENA that have significant SSA are considered mixed race. However, they are Caucasian mostly.

[StonyArabia]

I would say MENA that have significant SSA are considered mixed race. However, they are Caucasian mostly.

North Africans on here are cherry picked. Most North Africans have SSA that does not show, because it's ancient. Anyways I lived in Libya and it was nice place, and the people very hospital. However Arab speakers should be just Arabs. Arab means to be "mixed" in Hebrew or to be dark skinned, and also "nomad". As we have nothing in common with Georgians or Iranians. Yes Sudanese despite being blacks are part of our nation, heck many of them share same paternal tribes as people of the Arabian peninsula

[JohnSmith]

North Africans on here are cherry picked. Most North Africans have SSA that does not show, because it's ancient. Anyways I lived in Libya and it was nice place, and the people very hospital. However Arab speakers should be just Arabs. Arab means to be "mixed" in Hebrew or to be dark skinned, and also "nomad". As we have nothing in common with Georgians or Iranians. Yes Sudanese despite being blacks are part of our nation, heck many of them share same paternal tribes as people of the Arabian peninsula

I think a lot of people use the term "race" and "racism" in ways that is not correct. If one is prejudice against some group that is still part of your race that is called bigotry not racism. For example if a Scandinavian dislikes Italians because they think they are lazy that is not racism. It is just plain old prejudice and bigotry.

[Wadaad]

I would say MENA that have significant SSA are considered mixed race. However, they are Caucasian mostly.

Then turks should be seen as MENA mestizos

[JohnSmith]

Then turks should be seen as MENA mestizos

I love the Turks they certainly are a proud people that stood their ground for centuries with their empire.

[StonyArabia]

Then turks should be seen as MENA mestizos

Yes because they have significant Mongoloid admixture, and also South Asian which was uncommon in Anatolia before the Turkic migrations who brought there.

[Hadouken]

Yes because they have significant Mongoloid admixture, and also South Asian which was uncommon in Anatolia before the Turkic migrations who brought there.

11 % or so mongoloid and 4% south asian (with the caucasoid in it not the asi)

Wtf are you talking again

[arkas]

Most of the arguments against why MENA is non-sensical term can be applied to every broad racial term, including "European". There's also cultural reasons why these terms exist, it may not be right genetically or phenotypically to create these broad terms but they exist for good reason.

[Hadouken]

Look at the members who want the term mena to make sense . look carefully

[Wadaad]

Most of the arguments against why MENA is non-sensical term can be applied to every broad racial term, including "European". There's also cultural reasons why these terms exist, it may not be right genetically or phenotypically to create these broad terms but they exist for good reason.

Same people complaining about the MENA category being to vague, have no qualms using the solitary nomenclature "SSA" for all of Africa South of the Sahara...when Africa is by and large the most diverse continent genetically speaking.

[StonyArabia]

Most of the arguments against why MENA is non-sensical term can be applied to every broad racial term, including "European". There's also cultural reasons why these terms exist, it may not be right genetically or phenotypically to create these broad terms but they exist for good reason.

Arabs are just Arabs. We have nothing nothing in common than Iranians, Georgians, Azeris, and god knows what else. Arab cultures are very different from one another btw, but we are unified by language, a common elements that binds us down, and to some extent some tribal and clan relations. We are much closer to the Sudanese than we are to Georgians or Iranians. Despite Iran is my neighbour I share zero elements with them. For example I feel warmth and comfort more with a Saudi or even a Sudanese, then I do with a Kurd from Iraq, due to blood ties that I share and also I am very cultural close to them. Blood is thicker than water. The only thing me and the Kurd have is we are located in the same geographical area.

[Abdelnour]

I'd argue that SSA should have been split up to multiple groups, but anthotard experts insist there is little difference between them even though the difference is more clear than a difference between a European and Indian.

[Kivan]

Yes because they have significant Mongoloid admixture, and also South Asian which was uncommon in Anatolia before the Turkic migrations who brought there.

Insignificant amount of SA is only scored in the Gedmtch and it's obviously something ancient, dumbass.

[Hadouken]

Arabs are just Arabs. We have nothing nothing in common than Iranians, Georgians, Azeris, and god knows what else. Arab cultures are very different from one another btw, but we are unified by language, a common elements that binds us down, and to some extent some tribal and clan relations. We are much closer to the Sudanese than we are to Georgians or Iranians. Despite Iran is my neighbour I share zero elements with them. For example I feel warmth and comfort more with a Saudi or even a Sudanese, then I do with a Kurd from Iraq, due to blood ties that I share and also I am very cultural close to them. Blood is thicker than water. The only thing me and the Kurd have is we are located in the same geographical area.

sounds pretty racialistic . exactly what you criticize on the west asians and europens who also think like that. crying "omg so racis" on one hand but be racialist yourself is yet one of another paradox bullshit by you and your like

[arkas]

Same people complaining about the MENA category being to vague, have no qualms using the solitary nomenclature "SSA" for all of Africa South of the Sahara...when Africa is by and large the most diverse continent genetically speaking.
Exactly! It makes very little sense when you are looking at things with a small scope. But I don't think any rational person would deny that all these terms are very broad.


Arabs are just Arabs. We have nothing nothing in common than Iranians, Georgians, Azeris, and god knows what else. Arab cultures are very different from one another btw, but we are unified by language, a common elements that binds us down, and to some extent some tribal and clan relations. We are much closer to the Sudanese than we are to Georgians or Iranians. Despite Iran is my neighbour I share zero elements with them. For example I feel warmth and comfort more with a Saudi or even a Sudanese, then I do with a Kurd from Iraq, due to blood ties that I share and also I am very cultural close to them. Blood is thicker than water. The only thing me and the Kurd have is we are located in the same geographical area.

Everything you're saying, it can be applied to ALL broad racial terms, not just Arabs. Greeks have more in common with Armenians than Swedes but still the term European exists.

A Punjabi and a Pashtun have more in common genetically and phenotypically than a Tamil or a Malayali like my family but still the term South Asian exists.

[Decius]

MENA is a term for people from the Middle East and North Africa. They are part of the Caucasoid race.

[JohnSmith]

Exactly! It makes very little sense when you are looking at things with a small scope. But I don't think any rational person would deny that all these terms are very broad.



Everything you're saying, it can be applied to ALL broad racial terms, not just Arabs. Greeks have more in common with Armenians than Swedes but still the term European exists.

A Punjabi and a Pashtun have more in common genetically and phenotypically than a Tamil or a Malayali like my family but still the term South Asian exists.

Culturally these groups tend to share things together.

[arkas]

Culturally these groups tend to share things together.

Well, I am not saying there's no similarities but generally there's going to be MORE similarities with border regions than distant regions.

[Sikeliot]

Everything you're saying, it can be applied to ALL broad racial terms, not just Arabs. Greeks have more in common with Armenians than Swedes but still the term European exists.

A Punjabi and a Pashtun have more in common genetically and phenotypically than a Tamil or a Malayali like my family but still the term South Asian exists.

"European" makes no sense to me. As I have mentioned, I relate (as Sicilian American) better to Jews, Levantines, etc. than to Swedes or Finns in terms of knowing who we are related to.

[Hadouken]

"European" makes no sense to me. As I have mentioned, I relate (as Sicilian American) better to Jews, Levantines, etc. than to Swedes or Finns in terms of knowing who we are related to.

if european doesnt make sense then MENA makes even less sense . europe is a relatively small continent and not even a real continent actually but it was coined because europeans ARE close to each other in general but if EVEN THAT doesnt make sense because of what you just decribed then the term MENA is even more retarded . but what do I know

[JohnSmith]

Well, I am not saying there's no similarities but generally there's going to be MORE similarities with border regions than distant regions.

Yes.

[arkas]

"European" makes no sense to me. As I have mentioned, I relate (as Sicilian American) better to Jews, Levantines, etc. than to Swedes or Finns in terms of knowing who we are related to.

As I said, the same is true for all broad terms, based on the criteria for this argument that is.

[JohnSmith]

As for us New Worlders. We are just Americans. I do not relate much to Europeans.

[arkas]

As for us New Worlders. We are just Americans. I do not relate much to Europeans.

Good for you John Smith!
https://media.giphy.com/media/tBQSsO0f8bEl2/giphy.webp

[JohnSmith]

Good for you John Smith!
https://media.giphy.com/media/tBQSsO0f8bEl2/giphy.webp

The hell with the Old World.

[arkas]

The hell with the Old World.

Deep down, I feel the same way :thumb001:

Old worlders are so... zzzzz

[user_]

MENA for me is Arab speaking world.

[renaissance12]

I know who is MONA

[Cristiano viejo]

Coming from someone who cherrypicks blonde Spaniards. Pretty classic if you ask me. ;)
Not my problem if you dont like I post blonde Spaniards, something I do because their existence was denied in this forum.


Btw, I "cherrypicked" the most typical looking (Iraqi) Kurds. Most aren't lighter or darker than those in my pic. Lmao.
hahaha

[Lauχum]

https://i.imgur.com/ID7hLe0.png

Big Pussy Bonpensiero's long lost Berber brother.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sopranos/images/9/96/SalBonpensiero.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110223192800

[StonyArabia]

MENA for me is Arab speaking world.

Yes, but Turkey and Iran are included as well. I don't think they should be included because usually when people say MENA they are indeed of thinking of the Arab world. None would say Armenia is MENA for example. Yet Armenia has more in common with Turkey and Iran, than it does with so called MENA or the Arab world. There is no MENA race lol, unless they mean the person looks "Arabish"

[Zroota]

Not my problem if you dont like I post blonde Spaniards, something I do because their existence was denied in this forum.
I don't really mind or care about you posting blonde Spaniards. But the Kurds I displayed in my OP generally look like that - Kurds are overall dark haired and dark eyed with medium light to olive skin, just like those in my post. Not sure why you thought I "cherrypicked" them when that's how they generally look? Or do you think Kurds are predominantly Orientalid and look "Arabian". Well, okay, that's not my problem as well.

Nevermind those westernized, gaudy suits that they were wearing. Just go by their looks.

[Hadouken]

shelati just let it be . it has no point to argue with these people

I also give up on this MENA thing and will use the term myself from now on . cant do anything against it

[Jana]

shelati just let it be . it has no point to argue with these people

I also give up on this MENA thing and will use the term myself from now on . cant do anything against it

You should not accept to be classified as MENA when it is ignorant, colononialist term Coined by westerners who know nothing about people They lumped togheder.

Your people are West Asians, or northwestern Asians if Arabs are southwestern ones.

The same as I will never accept Balkan label for my country, when it was forced on us by foreigners.

[Hadouken]

You should not accept to be classified as MENA when it is ignorant, colononialist term Coined by westerners who know nothing about people They lumped togheder.

Your people are West Asians, or northwestern Asians if Arabs are southwestern ones.

The same as I will never accept Balkan label for my country, when it was forced on us by foreigners.

there is nothing I can do though . if anything people will call me a self hater owd or whatever the fuck they have in their minds . and they also think I hate other MENAs or something which is not true . it has no point and I give up .

I also thought by posting many kurdish faces and my genetic results I could undo the ignorance about us yet you have people like cristiano who says that these kurds are cherrypicked even though some of them would even be exotic among us turkish kurds and they are not cherrypicked at all . I have done my best to present my people to others who might be interested but I think a lot of it is a waste of time actually .

I am actually a bit shocked by how stupid some europeans can be . I thought you guys are so smart yet many people think that once you cross the bosporus people all of a sudden look like bin laden and fly on carpets

meh ....I am too old for this shit

mena for life I guess

[Jana]

there is nothing I can do though . if anything people will call me a self hater owd or whatever the fuck they have in their minds . and they also think I hate other MENAs or something which is not true . it has no point and I give up .

I also thought by posting many kurdish faces and my genetic results I could undo the ignorance about us yet you have people like cristiano who says that these kurds are cherrypicked even though some of them would even be exotic among us turkish kurds and they are not cherrypicked at all . I have done my best to present my people to others who might be interested but I think a lot of it is a waste of time actually .

I am actually a bit shocked by how stupid some europeans can be . I thought you guys are so smart yet many people think that once you cross the bosporus people all of a sudden look like bin laden and fly on carpets

meh ....I am too old for this shit

mena for life I guess

I don't think West Asians know more about Europe tbh.
Anyway, to me this "Middle east" is divided in clear genetic/anthro regions
(Who overlap with neighbouring Sub-regions)

Caucasus
Anatolia
Iranian Plateau
Mesopotamia
Levant
Arabia

[Tauromachos]

Are Gypsy people considered Mena?

[FinalFlash]

I don't think West Asians know more about Europe tbh.
Anyway, to me this "Middle east" is divided in clear genetic/anthro regions
(Who overlap with neighbouring Sub-regions)

Caucasus
Anatolia
Iranian Plateau
Mesopotamia
Levant
Arabia

+ The Armenian Highlands ;)

[Hadouken]

I don't think West Asians know more about Europe tbh.
Anyway, to me this "Middle east" is divided in clear genetic/anthro regions

Caucasus
Anatolia
Iranian Plateau
Mesopotamia
Levant
Arabia

west asians know more about europe because there are more west asians living in europe than the other way around . and because we are not ignorants . I mean people like cristiano viejo . you think we west asians are like that ? even less so in my province . we are one of the most smart and humble people and if you asked my people about europeans if they dont know they would just say that they are not knowledged . not like europeans who try to force us to accept a term where we are put with so many peoples in one bracket that have nothing to do with us with the reasoning "doze muzlims man "

I dont expect europeans to know shit about us but at least they shall not talk out of their ass and respect our opinions especially in such a thread for example because it is us who have to live with the term in the end . I mean it is nothing too important either . if people get an orgasm by calling my people mena then they shall do it but this is just a typical european behaviour no offense

[steppenwolf]

MENA for me is Arab speaking world.

Arabic speaking peoples and countries are in Arabian peninsula. Middle east is a mixed place although the majority of people have darkish skin and dominant language is arabic. Iraq, Syria, palestine, Lebanon, Egypt etc all are mixed with northern Caucasians so their look is whiter and hybrid.

[Jana]

west asians know more about europe because there are more west asians living in europe than the other way around . and because we are not ignorants . I mean people like cristiano viejo . you think we west asians are like that ? even less so in my province . we are one of the most smart and humble people and if you asked my people about europeans if they dont know they would just say that they are not knowledged . not like europeans who try to force us to accept a term where we are put with so many peoples in one bracket that have nothing to do with us with the reasoning "doze muzlims man "

I dont expect europeans to know shit about us but at least they shall not talk out of their ass and respect our opinions especially in such a thread for example because it is us who have to live with the term in the end . I mean it is nothing too important either . if people get an orgasm by calling my people mena then they shall do it but this is just a typical european behaviour no offense

I have witnessed Many Turks insulting my ethnicity and Calling us Balkanites, so it works both Way.
We don't indentity with Balkan and consider it an insult. Same feeling , eeh ?

[Zroota]

there is nothing I can do though . if anything people will call me a self hater owd or whatever the fuck they have in their minds . and they also think I hate other MENAs or something which is not true . it has no point and I give up .
It's funny that some people here brought up the whole OWD thing and used it as a strawman against this thread, when nobody was talking about linking West Asians with Europeans. No where in my OP did I state "West Asians are closer to Italians than Egyptians" or anything in that breath. My point was that a few groups in West Asia are distinct and have no genetic relations to those from North Africa, and that they also barely resemble each other. It was pretty much a North Africa vs Western Asia case. No one was talking about whites and Europeans. Lol.

[Jana]

+ The Armenian Highlands ;)

Original Armenia was in Anatolia, no ?

[Hadouken]

I have witnessed Many Turks insulting my ethnicity and Calling us Balkanites, so it works both Way.
We don't indentity with Balkan and consider it an insult. Same feeling , eeh ?

but once you would say it to them they would understand . not knowing something is not the same as pushing something in a persons throat

what I mean is as I said I posted maybe 1000 kurdish faces and even my own face along with my people and my genetic results . some people including you were shocked that we look the way we do because you have had a different image of us in your head . thats totally normal and you understood it . you also understood that the term mena is nonsense . but there are enough others who no matter what you show them or how much your sentences make sense they will not stop and will not change their mind . THAT is subhumanoid behaviour imo . so much for muh master race ...

I dont mean you btw. . as I just described you are one of the smart ones

[Hadouken]

It's funny that some people here brought the whole OWD thing up and using it as a strawman, when nobody was talking about linking West Asians with Europeans. No where in my OP did I state "West Asians are closer to Italians than Egyptians" or anything in that breath. My point was that a few groups in West Asia are still distinct and have no genetic relations to those from North Africa. It was pretty much a North Africa vs Western Asia thing. No one was talking about whites and Europeans. Lol.

yeah I know but ...fuck it ...meh :bored:

just call yourself mena here on board where so many imbeciles are . might as well just play along you know . at least I will from now on

[Nanushka]

I don't think West Asians know more about Europe tbh.
Anyway, to me this "Middle east" is divided in clear genetic/anthro regions
(Who overlap with neighbouring Sub-regions)

Caucasus
Anatolia
Iranian Plateau
Mesopotamia
Levant
Arabia

I really dont get this, how do you not count Kurdistan as MENA while counting Caucasus so? And which caucasus? :confused: Northern Caucasia has got nothing to do with middle east

[Jana]

but once you would say it to them they would understand . not knowing something is not the same as pushing something in a persons throat

what I mean is as I said I posted maybe 1000 kurdish faces and even my own face along with my people and my genetic results . some people including you were shocked that we look the way we do because you have had a different image of us in your head . thats totally normal and you understood it . you also understood that the term mena is nonsense . but there are enough others who no matter what you show them or how much your sentences make sense they will not stop and will not change their mind . THAT is subhumanoid behaviour imo . so much for muh master race ...

I dont mean you btw. . as I just described you are one of the smart ones

I understand . I was suprised with Kurdish look, but not because I ever tought They looked like Arabs, but because I tought They look like Persians and seems it is not exactly true. Persians look more exotic to Europeans than Kurds, so to speak.

What do you say ?

[FinalFlash]

Original Armania was in Anatolia, no ?

Nope. Original Armenia encompassed modern day Armenia, Artsakh(Nagorno Karabakh), lands leading up to the Kura river in Azerbaijan, Nakhichevan(currently an Azeri enclave, NW Iran and virtually the entirety of eastern Turkey erroneously referred to as "Eastern Anatolia".

Anatolia=western peninsular part of modern day Turkey
Armenian Highlands= all of historic Armenia not restricted to only modern day east Turkey.

Eastern Anatolia was essentially used by the sultan of the ottoman empire in the late 1800s to erase the Armenian presence and essentially undermine our entire existence in the region. Prior to this, that land was always referred to as the "6 Armenian vilayets". Now its "Eastern Anatolia" lol go figure.

[Jana]

I really dont get this, how do you not count Kurdistan as MENA while counting Caucasus so? And which caucasus? :confused: Northern Caucasia has got nothing to do with middle east

Please read again...

[Zroota]

yeah I know but ...fuck it ...meh :bored:

just call yourself mena here on board where so many imbeciles are . might as well just play along you know . at least I will from now on
Lol. MENA and proud I guess! :p

[Hadouken]

I understand . I was suprised with Kurdish look, but not because I ever tought They looked like Arabs, but because I tought They look like Persians and seems it is not exactly true. Persians look more exotic to Europeans than Kurds, so to speak.

What do you say ?

ah yeah thats another thing . speaking an iranic language = looking the same . or "Kurdish or Iranian " "Kurdish/Iranian" etc.

:bored:

anyway thanks for not being a stupid idiot . and for being polite and friendly . you are one of my favorite members since ever

[Jana]

Nope. Original Armenia encompassed modern day Armenia, Artsakh(Nagorno Karabakh), lands leading up to the Kura river in Azerbaijan, Nakhichevan(currently an Azeri enclave, NW Iran and virtually the entirety of eastern Turkey erroneously referred to as "Eastern Anatolia".

Anatolia=western peninsular part of modern day Turkey
Armenian Highlands= all of historic Armenia not restricted to only modern day east Turkey.

Eastern Anatolia was essentially used by the sultan of the ottoman empire in the late 1800s to erase the Armenian presence and essentially undermine our entire existence in the region. Prior to this, that land was always referred to as the "6 Armenian vilayets". Now its "Eastern Anatolia" lol go figure.

Interesting. In Europe Anatolia is Associated with eastern part rather than Western peninsula :D Western part is Called Asia Minor here.

[Jana]

ah yeah thats another thing . speaking an iranic language = looking the same . or "Kurdish or Iranian " "Kurdish/Iranian" etc.

:bored:

anyway thanks for not being a stupid idiot . and for being polite and friendly . you are one of my favorite members since ever


Thank you for a nice compliment :)

[FinalFlash]

Interesting. Im Europe Anatolia is Associated with eastern part rather than Western peninsula :D

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia

The part in red is generally regarded as Anatolia. East of that lies the Armenian Highlands.

[Zroota]

I really dont get this, how do you not count Kurdistan as MENA while counting Caucasus so? And which caucasus? :confused: Northern Caucasia has got nothing to do with middle east
She's speaking of West Asia (or the Middle East), not "MENA". Caucasus is in Western Asia as well. Nobody was speaking of "MENA" here.

Besides, Kurdistan lies over parts of eastern Anatolia, northern Mesopotamia, upper areas of the Levant and northwest Iran.

[Nanushka]

Please read again...


You should not accept to be classified as MENA when it is ignorant, colononialist term Coined by westerners who know nothing about people They lumped togheder.

Your people are West Asians, or northwestern Asians if Arabs are southwestern ones.



read what? you clearly said Kurds are west Asians, ok, but classify Caucasus as MENA ?

I believe there is a funny misconception going on about naming the geographical regions

[Jana]

read what? you clearly said Kurds are west Asians, ok, but classify Caucasus as MENA ?

I believe there is a funny misconception going on about naming the geographical regions

Well I Said in the first post how artificial Term MENA is.
I consider Caucasians northwest Asians too, or Eurasians if you wish for those in Northern Caucasus

[Gangrel]

Lol @ CV calling others out for cherrypicking when he only posts Blonde spaniards lmao

[FinalFlash]

I dont mean to be disrespectful to Iberians, but why in the fuck do Italians get Levantinized so much and Iberians likened to French or Brits when its painfully obvious that both Italians and Iberians have their fair share of "exotic" types and both are more similar to one another in phenotype than either is to Brits or Lebanese for example?

[Nanushka]

She's speaking of West Asia (or the Middle East), not "MENA". Caucasus is in Western Asia as well. Nobody was speaking of "MENA" here.

Besides, Kurdistan lies over parts of eastern Anatolia, northern Mesopotamia, upper areas of the Levant and northwest Iran.

Tbh I was talking about the land where Kurds were living in the past, there is no Kurdistan that includes land in Anatolia today

[Babak]

Arabs are just Arabs. We have nothing nothing in common than Iranians, Georgians, Azeris, and god knows what else. Arab cultures are very different from one another btw, but we are unified by language, a common elements that binds us down, and to some extent some tribal and clan relations. We are much closer to the Sudanese than we are to Georgians or Iranians. Despite Iran is my neighbour I share zero elements with them. For example I feel warmth and comfort more with a Saudi or even a Sudanese, then I do with a Kurd from Iraq, due to blood ties that I share and also I am very cultural close to them. Blood is thicker than water. The only thing me and the Kurd have is we are located in the same geographical area.

Yea, your 50% Azeri gives you even more warmth and comfort right?

[Gangrel]

Yea, your 50% Azeri gives you even more warmth and comfort right?

It will be chechen next year

[Zroota]

Tbh I was talking about the land where Kurds were living in the past, there is no Kurdistan that includes land in Anatolia today
Then how do you explain these maps? I thoughts Kurdistan straddled Anatolia as well.

http://arabpress.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/kurdistan-territori-curdi.png
https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2014/09/09/9_9_2014_b-pipes-kurdistan-8201_c1-0-2933-1710_s885x516.jpg?eec8478d47a9962f84c4ba518909630c f76acba0

[StonyArabia]

Yea, your 50% Azeri gives you even more warmth and comfort right?

Don't really care for it, just shows my Kavkazian side is southern Caucasian/Turkish shifted.If you want I can send you my kitnumber. I identify with my Bedouin side, and I am not really fond of West Asians, had bad experience with them.

[Swarthy_Syndicate]

I don't like the MENA term either TBH. Just say Arabid or Iranid

[Corporate_Demolisher]

Arabs are the lowest of the low from a more holistic perspective. Non-Arab Middle Easterners such as Turks and Persians have achieved impressive things such as Ottoman Empire.

Arabs are cowards who cannot fight, non-Arab Muslims seem stronger in their Islamic faith.

[Adamm]

Arabs are the lowest of the low from a more holistic perspective. Non-Arab Middle Easterners such as Turks and Persians have achieved impressive things such as Ottoman Empire.

Arabs are cowards who cannot fight, non-Arab Muslims seem stronger in their Islamic faith.

That is not true though, Arabs brought forth the Ummayad empire which defeated both the Persian and Byzantine Empire on many occasions, heck even destroying the Persians for once and for all.

I would say majority of MENA populations have 1 thing in common:

Natufian ancestry.

[Sandis]

Berberid, Arabid, Iranid are clearly different.
There is no reason to lump them together racially.

[RogueState]

Everybody a bit literate in terms of anthropology or geopolitics know that "MENA" is too large concept that in practice lumps together too different countries, and that can at best be a more historical geographic zone to contrast the Christian Europe with the Islamic empire

Nevertheless, in real life, many people are not well literate in these topics, so for them, any "brownish pred. Caucasoid" looking person must be Muslim and from that region.

[Tauromachos]

What?! How dare you make sense!!!

You're telling me that a Moroccan and Chechen arent the same thing? Or an Armenian and Jordanian are actually distinguishable? You'll never convince me that Georgians are not interchangeable with Algerians or Yemenis!

Fucking "OWD" white wannabe "MENA".

Two of the most bullshit terms in this forum by far.

Ofc everyone from Chechenya to Morocco looks the same only in Europe everyone looks different and people from Northern Turkey
(Blacksea) for example never look similar to East Balkanians

[Hamilcar]

That is not true though, Arabs brought forth the Ummayad empire which defeated both the Persian and Byzantine Empire on many occasions, heck even destroying the Persians for once and for all.

I would say majority of MENA populations have 1 thing in common:

Natufian ancestry.


This doesn't make sense since most italians tend to score more natufian ancestry than moroccans like me or certain algerians like kabyles





Target: Hamilcar
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG




Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.9084% / 0.01908427
56.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
21.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.4 Levant_Natufian
8.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.8 GEO_CHG
0.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian


Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.7998% / 0.01799845
56.2 Anatolia_Barcin_N
23.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.6 Levant_Natufian
8.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.8 GEO_CHG

Target: Sicilian_West
Distance: 2.4398% / 0.02439833
52.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
23.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.6 Levant_Natufian
7.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.6 WHG
2.2 GEO_CHG
1.2 MAR_Iberomaurusian

[KirillMazur]

Ofc everyone from Chechenya to Morocco looks the same only in Europe everyone looks different and people from Northern Turkey
(Blacksea) for example never look similar to East Balkanians
Take it wider, from Morocco to eastern Afghanistan / western Pakistan, including the Arabian Peninsula, Tajikistan and half of Uzbekistan, the Caucasus and Turkey. United Arab republic of Great Kebabistan:).
Just a dumb joke.

[Corporate_Demolisher]

It’s more of a cultural designation than a physical one. IMO I see MENA as the equivalent to Hispanic in America - you can be ethnically MENA but many of them are white and descended from European blood, likewise with many South Americans.