PCA MAP of Europe, Middle East, Caucasus and North Africa

[HELLBANIAN]

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

[FinalFlash]

Seems about right. Further proves the uselessness of the "MENA" term.

[HELLBANIAN]

Seems about right. Further proves the uselessness of the "MENA" term.

. It actually shows that MENA people aren't any less close to each other than Europeans are to one another. Or say any less homogenous. Look at Sardinians who are native Europeans and compare it to Lithuanians who are also native Europeans, for example. You can clearly see some European groups are closer to Caucasians than to the Northenmost Europeans.. of course there are overlaps in the Middle.

North Africa isn't middle East... I'm pretty sure the word middle East means what it means... an area in middle of the East. But there are overlaps with each other, they are not 100% identical all of them but they do overlap.. And they also overlap with neighbouring areas


Here is another map,

https://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png


^ Look at many of the Middle Eastern groups and how they overlap with each other

Many Europeans aren't any closer to eachother


If the word MENA is useless we can in this case argue the uselessness of the word EUROPEAN


This is just plotting and doesn't equal necessarily similarities in phenotype, language and racial characteristics. Such as Iranic speakers have a similar language to people in Europe. The Caucasian languages share also commonalities with the Indo European languages.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Look, Celtic and Germanic are like same people in genetics beside language

also it seems like North and Celtral Italy it's more close to Balkans than Iberia

[Dick]

Mordvins are like scandinavians? Where did you find that Pca and how old is it? the Pca map in your second post is old.

[HELLBANIAN]

Mordvins are like scandinavians? Where did you find that Pca and how old is it? the Pca map in your second post is old.

I found it here http://www.nevgen.org/Autosomal_PCA_charts_Of_Europe.html

It shows the map in different axis, I didn't read the whole page at first. Mordvins are close to Russians it seems once you zoom in on the map.

There aren't enough Middle Eastern groups added to the map btw to compare with Europe imo

Here's the same map with a different axis

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 4-1 a.png


If you click on the link you find maps more zoomed in etc.

Some of these maps make populations look closer to each other than they are, I guess.

Here is more zoomed in on some populations

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA axis 3-1 zoomed Southern Europe.png


http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA axis 3-1 zoomed Caucasus Anatolia.png


http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA axis 3-1 zoomed Northern Eastern Europe.png

[FinalFlash]

I found it here http://www.nevgen.org/Autosomal_PCA_charts_Of_Europe.html

It shows the map in different axis, I didn't read the whole page at first. Mordvins are close to Russians it seems once you zoom in on the map.

There aren't enough Middle Eastern groups added to the map btw to compare with Europe imo

Here's the same map with a different axis

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 4-1 a.png


If you click on the link you find maps more zoomed in etc.

Some of these maps make populations look closer to each other than they are, I guess.

Here is more zoomed in on some populations

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA axis 3-1 zoomed Southern Europe.png


http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA axis 3-1 zoomed Caucasus Anatolia.png


http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA axis 3-1 zoomed Northern Eastern Europe.png

Which one is the most accurate?

[HELLBANIAN]

Look, Celtic and Germanic are like same people in genetics beside language

also it seems like North and Celtral Italy it's more close to Balkans than Iberia

It makes it seem like that from different axis or when the map is not zoomed in. I guess.

[Dick]

Which one is the most accurate?

I'm guessing this one. Sardinians should be the most west shifted Europeans. Mordvins more east and south of Finns



http://www.nevgen.org/PCA%20charts/PCA%20Europe%20and%20vicinity%20axis%203-1%20a.png

[FinalFlash]

I'm guessing this one. Sardinians should be the most west shifted Europeans. Mordvins more east and south of Finns



http://www.nevgen.org/PCA%20charts/PCA%20Europe%20and%20vicinity%20axis%203-1%20a.png

Yeah, I guess this one makes the most sense. Thanks dick.

[HELLBANIAN]

Which one is the most accurate?

No idea. But it still doesn't tell me that Europeans are more homogenous or that the word MENA is totally useless. I agree that people of the Middle East have differences and overlaps, same way Europeans do. They are just geographical areas. In my opinion, both terms are useless. A Sardinian will always be a Sardinian and a Lithuanian will stay a Lithuanian but Europe is also larger as a geographical, I guess. We do share common origins but in different proportions which makes us also diverse.

[FinalFlash]

No idea. But it still doesn't tell me that Europeans are more homogenous or that the word MENA is totally useless. I agree that people of the Middle East have differences and overlaps, same way Europeans do. They are just geographical areas. In my opinion, both terms are useless. A Sardinian will always be a Sardinian and a Lithuanian will stay a Lithuanian but Europe is also larger as a geographical, I guess. We do share common origins but in different proportions which makes us also diverse.

I guess you're right. Some Europeans are clearly more related to Northwest "Asians" than other Europeans. And vice versa.

[HELLBANIAN]

I'm guessing this one. Sardinians should be the most west shifted Europeans. Mordvins more east and south of Finns



http://www.nevgen.org/PCA%20charts/PCA%20Europe%20and%20vicinity%20axis%203-1%20a.png

You are absolutely right. I edited out the OP. And bump.

[Sp_loa]

According to this PCA Yemenite Jews are closer to Bedouins than Yemenites. I guess they still have Levantine ancestry together with South Arabian.
Nice PCA.

[guezet]

Look, Celtic and Germanic are like same people in genetics beside language

also it seems like North and Celtral Italy it's more close to Balkans than Iberia

This PCA makes more sense imo

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zjQ9G4xwFBI/WyBhZjiVjfI/AAAAAAAAAAY/dutkCTH9FE8KI-0hEklyQgLDMvwaqkt7gCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/EURO%2BPCA_1.jpg

[guezet]

This is also a good one (except North Africa that is out of position)

https://image.ibb.co/hHkYhe/K15ver3x.jpg

[HELLBANIAN]

This PCA makes more sense imo

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zjQ9G4xwFBI/WyBhZjiVjfI/AAAAAAAAAAY/dutkCTH9FE8KI-0hEklyQgLDMvwaqkt7gCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/EURO%2BPCA_1.jpg

Interesting. South Albanians are even more South than Greek Thessaly

Edit: looking again, they seem similar

[guezet]

Interesting. South Albanians are even more South than Greek Thessaly

Edit: looking again, they seem similar

They are similar, South Albanians seem to be a bit more north than Greek Thessaly

[Radiy]

http://www.nevgen.org/PCA charts/PCA Europe and vicinity axis 3-1 a.png

Why are Albanians from Serbia for Albanians?

Balkans Turks are Bosnians or Bulgarians, very often more similar to Bosnians and Bulgarians than to Turks from Turkey.

[Hadouken]

and on what is this map based on ? "mena" and europeans are close in a global aspect/view but this map exeggerates it . iranians are almost clustering with italians etc.

the map seems bullshit to me . and if anything it proves that "european" is nonsense and "mena" too and that only caucasian/west eurasian is the proper term

[Radiy]

and on what is this map based on ? "mena" and europeans are close in a global aspect/view but this map exeggerates it . iranians are almost clustering with italians etc.

the map seems bullshit to me . and if anything it proves that "european" is nonsense and "mena" too and that only caucasian/west eurasian is the proper term


if anything this map is a bullshit and european is NOT nonsense. it exists an European culture to whom MENA people won't ever belong to. Maybe it's MENA people that would like to be considered European. But MENA people are not European even with a bullshit map.

[celticdragongod]

This PCA makes more sense imo

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zjQ9G4xwFBI/WyBhZjiVjfI/AAAAAAAAAAY/dutkCTH9FE8KI-0hEklyQgLDMvwaqkt7gCPcBGAYYCw/s1600/EURO%2BPCA_1.jpg

Unfortunately the Irish were left out of it.

[Hadouken]

if anything this map is a bullshit and european is NOT nonsense. it exists an European culture to whom MENA people won't ever belong to. Maybe it's MENA people that would like to be considered European. But MENA people are not European even with a bullshit map.

thats pretty mean from you tbh

[celticdragongod]

This is also a good one (except North Africa that is out of position)

https://image.ibb.co/hHkYhe/K15ver3x.jpg

This is impressive.

[Hadouken]

lol

[Chaos One]

Would love to see one plotting out North Africa going into Sub-Saharian regions, but seems impossible since there is not too many West/East African samples out there. Could help to see how it goes.

Same from Central Asia and South Asia into SE/East Asia.

[guezet]

Unfortunately the Irish were left out of it.

Irish close to Orcadians and West Scottish.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cIp5BLk9eJg/W4rMMoLjavI/AAAAAAAAAA4/NrZw6X9lhtQvHvMh-LyLt5-aMGuxQvguQCLcBGAs/s1600/Euro%2BPCA%2BEurogenes%2BK15.jpg

[celticdragongod]

Irish close to Orcadians and West Scottish.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cIp5BLk9eJg/W4rMMoLjavI/AAAAAAAAAA4/NrZw6X9lhtQvHvMh-LyLt5-aMGuxQvguQCLcBGAs/s1600/Euro%2BPCA%2BEurogenes%2BK15.jpg

Fantastic work! The gap between the north and south Dutch is really huge. Are there any historical reasons that you know of to explain it?

[guezet]

Fantastic work! The gap between the north and south Dutch is really huge. Are there any historical reasons that you know of to explain it?

North Dutch are more Northern Germanic. South Dutch more similar to Belgians (a mix of Germanic and Celtic?).