DNA uncovers my Cherokee roots.

[Herb3.]

NOTE/EDIT: Thanks to Isleño for his help, which really begins on page 3-4


Below is my original post - but be sure to read through the thread (more results included from GEDMatch, etc. as it progresses) Promise you'll learn something interesting today!


--------------------------


For context: my grandmother is mostly Afram. Her results are below.

Although Afram, she actually has more "Asian" admixture than European.

Her mother's legal name was "Chief" , and her mother said that we are of Cherokee descent (family is from North Carolina so that would make sense geographically),
but I didn't expect it to actually be....true lol I'm shocked to be honest.

Largest chunk of this DNA (8%) comes from Central Asia. Bullseye to the Altai area where the Natives are known to come from.

She scored 0.9% for the actual "Native" category" lol. Just goes to show how much real North American Indian samples these companies have. Or how diverse tribes can be genetically, as well.

https://i.imgur.com/9DnWLfj.jpg?1

https://78.media.tumblr.com/4f22964fbb3e64e56a64d995d8a9141e/tumblr_pecwy9V3OF1qfrpiko1_1280.jpg

[Maintenance]

Cherokee xD

[Herb3.]

Cherokee xD

So cliche, right! That's why I was skeptical. But we're actually from north Carolina. And I mean...DNA says that great grandma knew her stuff. lol

I feel bad for doubting her lol

[Richmondbread]

What test is this? I have documented Native American ancestry on my family tree, with legal eligible membership to the Patawomeck tribe, and 1.82% and they still call me a fake Indian on here.

[Profileid]

For context: my grandmother is mostly Afram. Her results are below.

Although Afram, she actually has more "Asian" admixture than European.

Her mother's legal name was "Chief" , and her mother said that we are of Cherokee descent (family is from North Carolina so that would make sense geographically),
but I didn't expect it to actually be....true lol I'm shocked to be honest.

Largest chunk of this DNA (8%) comes from Central Asia. Bullseye to the Altai area where the Natives are known to come from.

She scored 0.9% for the actual "Native" category" lol. Just goes to show how much real North American Indian samples these companies have. Or how diverse tribes can be genetically, as well.

https://i.imgur.com/9DnWLfj.jpg?1

https://78.media.tumblr.com/4f22964fbb3e64e56a64d995d8a9141e/tumblr_pecwy9V3OF1qfrpiko1_1280.jpg
post gedmatch calcs

[Dragoon]

Looks like an African-American with more Asian rather than Europe. Unless the Asian is Aboriginal.

[Isleño]

For context: my grandmother is mostly Afram. Her results are below.

Although Afram, she actually has more "Asian" admixture than European.

Her mother's legal name was "Chief" , and her mother said that we are of Cherokee descent (family is from North Carolina so that would make sense geographically),
but I didn't expect it to actually be....true lol I'm shocked to be honest.

Largest chunk of this DNA (8%) comes from Central Asia. Bullseye to the Altai area where the Natives are known to come from.

She scored 0.9% for the actual "Native" category" lol. Just goes to show how much real North American Indian samples these companies have. Or how diverse tribes can be genetically, as well.

This test is not too great. Upload your raw data onto Gedmatch to see for sure. The Central Asia could be anything. The category that said Native American had less than 1%. This test is too vague. And according to it, you have less than 1% Native American DNA. Again, you don’t know if the Central Asian is Native American or not, you are speculating the result. Upload your raw data to Gedmatch to be sure. It’s the only real way to know, not guessing like on this test.

[Isleño]

What test is this? I have documented Native American ancestry on my family tree, with legal eligible membership to the Patawomeck tribe, and 1.82% and they still call me a fake Indian on here.

You have less than 2% Amerindian and you have legal membership to a tribe? If I recall, for some tribes, as long as you have an ancestor on the Dawes Rolls, you can get membership to the tribe. Even if you have 2% Amerind blood. To me that will water down the tribe. Look how watered down the Cherokee tribe is, people with blond hair and blue eyes and white skin, others that look like they were born in Nigeria, lol

Yeah, I wouldn’t call you an Indian with 2% Indian blood. I wouldn’t disrespect you by calling you a fake Indian, I’d just say you were not an Indian.

[Herb3.]

In addition to the central Asian markers, she scored Northeast Asia markers here (Siberia)

Which are very specific to Native Americans from what I remember.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/0ac86746371690883b76601cd3892d49/tumblr_pecyelEqFO1qfrpiko1_1280.jpg

[Herb3.]

What test is this? I have documented Native American ancestry on my family tree, with legal eligible membership to the Patawomeck tribe, and 1.82% and they still call me a fake Indian on here.

It's GenePlaza.

Do you know who the Native ancestors?

I'm from the Parker family in North Carolina. Parker was a pretty popular Indian surname .

[Profileid]

You have less than 2% Amerindian and you have legal membership to a tribe? If I recall, for some tribes, as long as you have an ancestor on the Dawes Rolls, you can get membership to the tribe. Even if you have 2% Amerind blood. To me that will water down the tribe. Look how watered down the Cherokee tribe is, people with blond hair and blue eyes and white skin, others that look like they were born in Nigeria, lol

Yeah, I wouldn’t call you an Indian with 2% Indian blood. I wouldn’t disrespect you by calling you a fake Indian, I’d just say you were not an Indian.

He has no Amerindian. Even I get noise level amounts on some tests.

[Herb3.]

I actually have some stereotypically "Indian features". Red undertone and high cheekbones/bone structure.

People often mistake me for Dominican. A lot. Makes sense as Dominicans have some African, European and Asiatic/Native admixture as well. Tri-racial people in varying degrees.

[Isleño]

In addition to the central Asian markers, she scored Northeast Asia markers here (Siberia)

Which are very specific to Native Americans from what I remember.

You are doing a lot of speculation. It’s like guessing. Just upload the raw data to Gedmatch, run some calcs and post the results. These commercial tests are not good enough.

[Isleño]

I actually have some stereotypically "Indian features". Red undertone and high cheekbones/bone structure.

People often mistake me for Dominican. A lot. Makes sense as Dominicans have some African, European and Asiatic/Native admixture as well. Tri-racial people in varying degrees.Black Americans often have those features and it’s mostly not from being Amerind, but from being mixed (red tones) and the African ancestry also has high cheekbones. I wouldn’t do all that speculating until you ran some Gedmatch calculations to know for sure. According to the tests, you,are,not getting much Amerind. Now whether or not the other components are Amerind, we don’t know because the test is so vague. Gedmatch will sort it out, especially on the oracles.

[Herb3.]

You are doing a lot of speculation. It’s like guessing. Just upload the raw data to Gedmatch, run some calcs and post the results. These commercial tests are not good enough.

It's not really speculation when it's been proven that Native Americans have Turkish/Central Asian DNA.

My grandmother also has markers from Northeast Asia (Siberia). Another hotspot for Native DNA. And we actually have Native history in my family. I am of descendant of the Parkers of North Carolina. My great grandmother's legal name was Chief Parker.

There's speculation and then there's a thing called evidence adding up to form a REASONABLE conclusion.

You keep mentioning GEDMatch as it's the be all and say all - do they have actual Cherokee samples in their system or something? Because that's the only way I could see THAT data being some sort of overruling of what I've already discovered.

[Isleño]

He has no Amerindian. Even I get noise level amounts on some tests.

I thought he said he gets 1.82% Amerind? That might be real and not noise. He’d have to run multiple Gedmatch calcs to see if it’s consistent to truly know if it’s real.

[Isleño]

It's not really speculation when it's been proven that Native Americans have Turkish/Central Asian DNA.

My grandmother also has markers from Northeast Asia (Siberia). Another hotspot for Native DNA. And we actually have Native history in my family. I am of descendant of the Parkers of North Carolina. My great grandmother's legal name was Chief Parker.

There's speculation and then there's a thing called evidence adding up to form a REASONABLE conclusion.

You keep mentioning GEDMatch as it's the be all and say all - do they have actual Cherokee samples in their system or something? Because that's the only way I could see THAT data being some sort of overruling of what I've already discovered.
Gedmatch will be more informative than the “reasonable conclusion” you mention. There are also oracles which will help to identify the Amerind ancestry. It’s far better than speculating about a commercial DNA test, which are more for laymen and don’t always get it right. Gedmatch is far more superior to commercial tests. Plus, there are many calcs you can run with spreadsheets for data. It’s far superior to that test. Just try it out. Upload the raw data and run the calcs.

[Herb3.]

Black Americans often have those features and it’s mostly not from being Amerind, but from being mixed (red tones) and the African ancestry also has high cheekbones. I wouldn’t do all that speculating until you ran some Gedmatch calculations to know for sure. According to the tests, you,are,not getting much Amerind. Now whether or not the other components are Amerind, we don’t know because the test is so vague. Gedmatch will sort it out, especially on the oracles.
"All that speculating"

Hun, I didn't take this test and decide to be of American Indian descent simply based on the results. I knew it already existed in my family and these results confirm what I know.

What is so special about GEDMatch? Again I ask, do they have actual Cherokee samples in their database?

[Friends of Oliver Society]

What test is this? I have documented Native American ancestry on my family tree, with legal eligible membership to the Patawomeck tribe, and 1.82% and they still call me a fake Indian on here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvrwhZUHaKg

[Herb3.]

Gedmatch will be more informative than the “reasonable conclusion” you mention. There are also oracles which will help to identify the Amerind ancestry. It’s far better than speculating about a commercial DNA test, which are more for laymen and don’t always get it right. Gedmatch is far more superior to commercial tests. Plus, there are many calcs you can run with spreadsheets for data. It’s far superior to that test. Just try it out. Upload the raw data and run the calcs.


Ran a test:

Ancestral_North_Eurasian 3.77
Ancestral_South_Eurasian -
East_Asian 2.76
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 8.03
Natufian 6.87
Sub_Saharan 78.58

Ancestral North Eurasian:

Ancestral North Eurasian (ANE): Upper-Paleolithic genomes from the Lake Baikal region of Siberia, identified as Malta, Afontogora 2, and Afontogora 3, dated to 17 to 24 kya, when Mammoths roamed the area, form the ANE cluster.



East Asian:


E Asian: This component is maximized in groups such as the Han and Dai.

[Darkfeather72]

Gedmatch will be more informative than the “reasonable conclusion” you mention. There are also oracles which will help to identify the Amerind ancestry. It’s far better than speculating about a commercial DNA test, which are more for laymen and don’t always get it right. Gedmatch is far more superior to commercial tests. Plus, there are many calcs you can run with spreadsheets for data. It’s far superior to that test. Just try it out. Upload the raw data and run the calcs.I definitely need to figure out how exactly how to do this. Which Oracles are the best for this? As a predominantly African American (about 60%) individual.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Herb3.]

Isleno what do you think about those GEDMatch results?

[Herb3.]

Here are my results. From the same test

I have Asian in at 6% (clearly taken from my grandmother's 10%)

And above it, are some GEDMatch results.

Ancestral_North_Eurasian 5.35
Ancestral_South_Eurasian -
East_Asian 2.65
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 5.52
Natufian 7.41
Sub_Saharan 79.07

https://i.imgur.com/4RhprMx.jpg?1

[Isleño]

Ran a test:

Ancestral_North_Eurasian 3.77
Ancestral_South_Eurasian -
East_Asian 2.76
West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 8.03
Natufian 6.87
Sub_Saharan 78.58

Ancestral North Eurasian:


East Asian:Thats not the proper test. Europeans like the English get like the 18% ANE and .30 East Asian and Eastern Europeans get like 1.50% East Asian. Try MDLP world 22, there are Amerindian components on there as well as an oracle.

But upon doing some quick research, DNA testing on Cherokees of North Carolina show little Amerindian and higher amounts of Middle Eastern DNA. So good news could be the Central Asian DNA could be Cherokee. But the bad news would be that North Carolina Cherokees are not real Amerinds, but are melungeon type people with small amounts of Amerind DNA. Take a look:

“The Cherokees tested had high levels of DNA test markers associated with the Berbers, native Egyptians, Turks, Lebanese, Hebrews and Mesopotamians. Genetically, they are more Jewish than the typical American Jew of European ancestry. So-called “full-blooded” Cherokees had high levels of European DNA and a trace of Asiatic (Native American) DNA. 80 Some “card-carrying” Cherokees had almost no Asiatic DNA. The European DNA contained a much higher level of DNA test markers associated with the Iberian Peninsula that was typical of Caucasian Americans. The level of haplogroup T in the Cherokee (26.9%) approximated the percentage for Egypt (25%), one of the only lands where T attains a major position among the various mitochondrial lineages. The lab claims that their skin color and facial features are primarily Semitic in origin, not Native American.”

“The origin of the core group of Cherokees may well have been the offspring of mixed-ethnic pairings who looked so non-European that they coalesced into bands and villages, then in to small tribes, then upon the manipulation of British officials, into a large Cherokee Tribe. After then, wave after wave of Native American captives or refugees from remnant tribes added Native American DNA to the gene pool. This theory is one of the few that could explain why a region in northeastern Tennessee that contained Spanish/Portuguese-speaking towns, African settlers, mullato settlers, Middle Eastern settlers, Jewish settlers and northern European settlers during the late 1600s, could also be simultaneously labeled the original heartland of the Cherokee People in the 1700s.

Perhaps something else should be mentioned. “Ani”, the Cherokee word for nation, province, tribe or clan, is also the name of the medieval capital of Armenia, when it composed most of eastern Anatolia. It was known as the “City of Churches” and with 200,000 people, was one of the largest cities in the world.

The word “ani” in Christian Eastern Anatolia meant nation or capital city. It still means the same in non-Turkish regions of eastern Anatolia. Muslim Turks use the word in a pejorative manner to mean “small town” or the boonies. As stated in an earlier chapter, the letters of the Late Medieval writing system used in the city of Ani are virtually identical to the letters of Sequoya’s original syllabary, but are different than the Cherokee syllabary used today, that was created by Rev. Samuel Worcester and Elias Boudinot.”

“The people of eastern Anatolia are a mixture of many ethnic groups that include Greeks, Galatians (Celts), Turks, Mesopotamians, Jews, Egyptians, North Africans, Romans and Circassians. Their DNA profile would probably be very similar to those obtained by DNA Consultants, Inc. at the North Carolina Cherokee Reservation. As stated above, a mid-19th century newspaper reporter described the Melungeons as looking like Circassians.

The word, Anatolia, literally means, “Land of the Sunrise” in Greek. When British officials asked the famous Cherokee leader, Atta Kulla Kulla, from where the Cherokee’s ancestors came. He said, “Our ancestors came from the Land of the Sunrise.” The Cherokee chief’s real name was Atta Kullak Ula, which means “Rider of a roan colored horse” in Anatolian.”


http://https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/cherokee-dna.htm

So the Central Asian could be real and your Cherokee ancestry, but it’s most probably Turkish/Armenian ancestry or from that area rather than real Amerind.

Try the MDLP world 22 oracle it should shed some light on what’s going on.

[Isleño]

Also, you got a substantial amount of Natufian on that test. Middle Easterners get Natufian. I think it’s all adding up. Yes, your Central Asian may be Cherokee, but Cherokee in North Carolina are not real Native Americans, but Middle Easterners mixed with a small bit of Native American and European.

[Isleño]

I definitely need to figure out how exactly how to do this. Which Oracles are the best for this? As a predominantly African American (about 60%) individual.

Sent from my SM-N950U using TapatalkThere’s tests on there that works well for people of predominantly Sub-Saharan descent.

[Profileid]

I thought he said he gets 1.82% Amerind? That might be real and not noise. He’d have to run multiple Gedmatch calcs to see if it’s consistent to truly know if it’s real.

Meade's calcs
K15
1 North_Sea 29.77
2 Atlantic 20.8
3 Baltic 15.05
4 West_Med 11.62
5 Eastern_Euro 11.32
6 West_Asian 7.8
7 Northeast_African 1.85
8 Amerindian 0.95
9 Oceanian 0.44
10 East_Med 0.37
11 South_Asian 0.01

MDLP K16
Amerindian -
Ancestor -
Steppe 23.11
Indian 1.16
Arctic -
Australian 0.05
Caucasian 20.23
EastAfrican 1.02
NorthEastEuropean 25.68
NearEast -
Neolithic 28.70
NorthAfrican 0.05
Oceanic -
Siberian -
SouthEastAsian -
Subsaharian -

Dodecad World9

Amerindian 0.82
East_Asian -
African 0.68
Atlantic_Baltic 68.27
Australasian 0.23
Siberian 0.87
Caucasus_Gedrosia 14.98
Southern 13.79
South_Asian 0.37

[Herb3.]

Also, you got a substantial amount of Natufian on that test. Middle Easterners get Natufian. I think it’s all adding up. Yes, your Central Asian may be Cherokee, but Cherokee in North Carolina are not real Native Americans, but Middle Easterners mixed with a small bit of Native American and European.
You may be onto something. I got a significant amount of "Med Islander" from DNA Land which is pretty much Middle Eastern as well

https://i.imgur.com/UcFD0hl.png?1

[Isleño]

“He hypothesizes that an expedition of Ptolemaic Egyptians and others in the 3rd century B.C. sailed to North America and were the settlers from whom descended today’s Cherokee Native Americans.”

http://https://www.theepochtimes.com/anomalous-dna-found-in-cherokee-native-american-genetic-research_1021858.html

[Isleño]

Meade's calcs
K15
1 North_Sea 29.77
2 Atlantic 20.8
3 Baltic 15.05
4 West_Med 11.62
5 Eastern_Euro 11.32
6 West_Asian 7.8
7 Northeast_African 1.85
8 Amerindian 0.95
9 Oceanian 0.44
10 East_Med 0.37
11 South_Asian 0.01

MDLP K16
Amerindian -
Ancestor -
Steppe 23.11
Indian 1.16
Arctic -
Australian 0.05
Caucasian 20.23
EastAfrican 1.02
NorthEastEuropean 25.68
NearEast -
Neolithic 28.70
NorthAfrican 0.05
Oceanic -
Siberian -
SouthEastAsian -
Subsaharian -

Dodecad World9

Amerindian 0.82
East_Asian -
African 0.68
Atlantic_Baltic 68.27
Australasian 0.23
Siberian 0.87
Caucasus_Gedrosia 14.98
Southern 13.79
South_Asian 0.37
I see. It’s likely the Amerind could be real, but it’s nearly 1%. No much to boast about.

[Herb3.]

Puntdnal K15 results:

1 92.2% African_American + 7.8% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.63
2 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.63
3 92.3% African_American + 7.7% Sicilian @ 2.66
4 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Cypriot @ 2.7
5 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Samaritian @ 2.76
6 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Palestinian @ 2.79
7 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Lebanese @ 2.8
8 80% Hausa + 20% Bosnian @ 2.86
9 91.9% African_American + 8.1% Libyan @ 2.88
10 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Druze @ 2.89
11 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Jordanian @ 2.9
12 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.91
13 91.9% African_American + 8.1% Egyptian @ 2.93
14 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Syrian @ 2.94
15 92.4% African_American + 7.6% Tuscan @ 2.94
16 80.1% Hausa + 19.9% Macedonian @ 2.94
17 92.4% African_American + 7.6% Albanian @ 2.96
18 92.4% African_American + 7.6% Greek_Central @ 2.97
19 80% Hausa + 20% Bulgarian @ 2.99
20 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Turk_Kayseri @ 3.01

[Herb3.]

“He hypothesizes that an expedition of Ptolemaic Egyptians and others in the 3rd century B.C. sailed to North America and were the settlers from whom descended today’s Cherokee Native Americans.”

http://https://www.theepochtimes.com/anomalous-dna-found-in-cherokee-native-american-genetic-research_1021858.html

My
Puntdnal K15 results:

1 92.2% African_American + 7.8% Sephardic_Jew @ 2.63
2 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.63
3 92.3% African_American + 7.7% Sicilian @ 2.66
4 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Cypriot @ 2.7
5 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Samaritian @ 2.76
6 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Palestinian @ 2.79
7 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Lebanese @ 2.8
8 80% Hausa + 20% Bosnian @ 2.86
9 91.9% African_American + 8.1% Libyan @ 2.88
10 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Druze @ 2.89
11 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Jordanian @ 2.9
12 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.91
13 91.9% African_American + 8.1% Egyptian @ 2.93
14 92.1% African_American + 7.9% Syrian @ 2.94
15 92.4% African_American + 7.6% Tuscan @ 2.94
16 80.1% Hausa + 19.9% Macedonian @ 2.94
17 92.4% African_American + 7.6% Albanian @ 2.96
18 92.4% African_American + 7.6% Greek_Central @ 2.97
19 80% Hausa + 20% Bulgarian @ 2.99
20 92.5% African_American + 7.5% Turk_Kayseri @ 3.01


It's so weird though. How did they go from ME's to Indians? lol

[Isleño]

Well, there were also Southern Europeans in North Carolina during colonial times like the Portuguese and Spanish. I wouldn’t get carried away with chalking up,anything Mediterranean as Cherokee as even Northwest Europeans have some Mediterranean admixture. Did you run the MDLP world 22? Post that result with the oracle-4. We will be able to figure it out.

It’s crazy shit that Cherokees were most probably a mix of Turks, Armenians and Arabs, with minor Amerind and European admixture.

[Isleño]

My
Puntdnal K15 results:



It's so weird though. How did they go from ME's to Indians? lol
There it is, lol. You are roughly about 92% African American (which is mostly Sub-Saharan and an admix of European) and about 8% Middle Eastern. The Cherokees were Middle Easterners it seems. This blows my mind lol

It seems they were either a settler population of Middle Easterners that arrived before European colonization or possibly from colonial settlers. However, the oracles are showing Middle Eastern instead of Amerindian. You really need an oracle-4 for better info

[Herb3.]

Well, there were also Southern Europeans in North Carolina during colonial times like the Portuguese and Spanish. I wouldn’t get carried away with chalking up,anything Mediterranean as Cherokee as even Northwest Europeans have some Mediterranean admixture. Did you run the MDLP world 22? Post that result with the oracle-4. We will be able to figure it out.

It’s crazy shit that Cherokees were most probably a mix of Turks, Armenians and Arabs, with minor Amerind and European admixture.
https://i.imgur.com/w8ZjDqi.jpg

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Biaka_Pygmies_derived +50% Lemba_derived @ 13.546891


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lemba_derived +25% Lemba_derived +25% Lumbee_derived @ 4.566963


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Lemba_derived + Lemba_derived + Lemba_derived + Lumbee_derived @ 4.566963
2 Bantu_derived + Lemba_derived + Lemba_derived + Lumbee_derived @ 4.816518
3 Lemba_derived + Lemba_derived + Lumbee_derived + Mandenka_derived @ 5.493881
4 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Lemba_derived + Lemba_derived + Lumbee_derived @ 5.512448
5 Lemba_derived + Lemba_derived + Lumbee_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 5.512448
6 Bantu_derived + Bantu_derived + Lemba_derived + Lumbee_derived @ 5.730761
7 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Bantu_derived + Costanoan_derived @ 6.039468
8 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Bantu_derived + Costanoan_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.039468
9 Bantu_derived + Costanoan_derived + Yoruba_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.039468
10 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Bantu_derived + Costanoan_derived + Mandenka_derived @ 6.040262
11 Bantu_derived + Costanoan_derived + Mandenka_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.040262
12 Bantu_derived + Costanoan_derived + Mandenka_derived + Mandenka_derived @ 6.041263
13 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Ashkenazim_V_derived + Bantu_derived @ 6.057428
14 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Ashkenazim_V_derived + Bantu_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.057428
15 Ashkenazim_V_derived + Bantu_derived + Yoruba_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.057428
16 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Ashkenazim_V_derived + Bantu_derived + Mandenka_derived @ 6.058050
17 Ashkenazim_V_derived + Bantu_derived + Mandenka_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.058050
18 Ashkenazim_V_derived + Bantu_derived + Mandenka_derived + Mandenka_derived @ 6.058879
19 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Ashkenazim_V_derived + Lemba_derived @ 6.198110
20 Sub-Saharian_ancestral + Ashkenazim_V_derived + Lemba_derived + Yoruba_derived @ 6.198110

Done.

Elapsed time 3.5519 seconds.

[Kamal900]

There it is, lol. You are roughly about 92% African American (which is mostly Sub-Saharan and an admix of European) and about 8% Middle Eastern. The Cherokees were Middle Easterners it seems. This blows my mind lol

It seems they were either a settler population of Middle Easterners that arrived before European colonization or possibly from colonial settlers. However, the oracles are showing Middle Eastern instead of Amerindian. You really need an oracle-4 for better info

Bro, you made me spit out my tea all over my monitor, lol.

[Isleño]

Bro, you made me spit out my tea all over my monitor, lol.
My mind was blown when I discovered this stuff. It seems the Cherokee are Middle Eastern but with small admix from Native Americans. This is nuts lol

[Isleño]

Now it’s getting confusing lol. The lumber tribe of North Carolina popped up on there. Hmmm. I need to do some figuring here...lol

[Herb3.]

Now it’s getting confusing lol. The lumber tribe of North Carolina popped up on there. Hmmm. I need to do some figuring here...lol

Yeah there's definitely a portion of my ancestry that seems to be a little confusing/complex. I've been at it for some time now.

lol

[Isleño]

“The Lumbee have long claimed descent from the Lost Colony via their oral history4. The Lumbee DNA Project shows significantly less Native American ancestry than would be expected with 96% European or African Y chromosomal DNA. The Melungeons, long held to be mixed European, African and Native show only one ancestral family with Native DNA5. Clearly more testing would be advantageous in all of these projects.“

http://http://www.dnaexplain.com/publications/pdfs/wherehavealltheindiansgone8-30-09joggv3.2.pdf

[Herb3.]

“The Lumbee have long claimed descent from the Lost Colony via their oral history4. The Lumbee DNA Project shows significantly less Native American ancestry than would be expected with 96% European or African Y chromosomal DNA. The Melungeons, long held to be mixed European, African and Native show only one ancestral family with Native DNA5. Clearly more testing would be advantageous in all of these projects.“

http://http://www.dnaexplain.com/publications/pdfs/wherehavealltheindiansgone8-30-09joggv3.2.pdf
So basically the "Lumbee" represents a similar admixture to "Cherokee" . lol

[Herb3.]

Guess the Middle Eastern makes sense, someone thought my great grandmother was Ethiopian Jew, when I asked for classification lol

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?243107-Classify-this-person

[Isleño]

Yeah there's definitely a portion of my ancestry that seems to be a little confusing/complex. I've been at it for some time now.

lolIt seems the oracle was giving you Lumbee as the only non-African source with closer numbers. Lumbee are a group that are a mix of European, African and Native American, but with very little Native American. But notice it was giving Ashkenazi Jewish as another non-African source on different oracles, but with further numbers. So there is some Middle Eastern there. I counted 2.92% actual Native American ancestry on the percentage breakdown of the MDLP world 22. I notice you got 6.02% Near East. Can’t tell if the West Asian is from the Middle Eastern or the European. It’s likely the .58% Indo Iranian is from the Middle Eastern DNA. So you could possibly be about 7%-8% Middle Eastern DNA and 3% Amerind DNA. Giving you about 10%-11% Cherokee, which is actually not really Amerind, but Middle Eastern with Amerind admix.

CRAZY!!!

[Isleño]

Now you see how Gedmatch is more informative than that commercial DNA test? That test had you believing you were partly straight up Amerind, but Gedmatch showed us its Middle Eastern with a small bit of Amerind.

[StonyArabia]

So the Cherokee are basically a Mideasterners mixed with other elements? Quite strange. It's believed that Melungeons were people of Turkish or Arab/Morsico descendants who intermixed with the Amerinds and also other people in the region. However some say that the Melungeon community actually started as freed Black slave men married with indentured European women mostly Irish, the community is formed. So if the Melungeons are of partial Anatolian, Arab, Amerind, Africa ancestry is quite interesing, but where did the Middle Eastern come from?

[Herb3.]

It seems the oracle was giving you Lumbee as the only non-African source with closer numbers. Lumbee are a group that are a mix of European, African and Native American, but with very little Native American. But notice it was giving Ashkenazi Jewish as another non-African source on different oracles, but with further numbers. So there is some Middle Eastern there. I counted 2.92% actual Native American ancestry on the percentage breakdown of the MDLP world 22. I notice you got 6.02% Near East. Can’t tell if the West Asian is from the Middle Eastern or the European. It’s likely the .58% Indo Iranian is from the Middle Eastern DNA. So you could possibly be about 7%-8% Middle Eastern DNA and 3% Amerind DNA. Giving you about 10%-11% Cherokee, which is actually not really Amerind, but Middle Eastern with Amerind admix.

CRAZY!!!
Kinda creepy. lol. It's just a bit weird wondering how this all came to be.

[Herb3.]

Now you see how Gedmatch is more informative than that commercial DNA test? That test had you believing you were partly straight up Amerind, but Gedmatch showed us its Middle Eastern with a small bit of Amerind.

More confusing but it makes sense. lol

[Herb3.]

So the Cherokee are basically a Mideasterners mixed with other elements? Quite strange. It's believed that Melungeons were people of Turkish or Arab/Morsico descendants who intermixed with the Amerinds and also other people in the region. However some say that the Melungeon community actually started as freed Black slave men married with indentured European women mostly Irish, the community is formed. So if the Melungeons are of partial Anatolian, Arab, Amerind, Africa ancestry is quite interesing, but where did the Middle Eastern come from?
The bolded is what's really creeping me out a bit.

The fact that there's definitely some Indian there, in small amount, larger portion of Middle Eastern, which most likely ancient. How the hell did this happen? When did the ME's and Indians pair up and jump in bed together for a bit? lol

[Isleño]

So basically the "Lumbee" represents a similar admixture to "Cherokee" . lol

Yeah, basically Lumbee is similar because it’s a mix of European and black African with small bits of Amerind. And since Europeans represent the purest types of Caucasoid people, mixing small amounts of black into it will give a pseudo-Middle Eastern affinity, then with the small bit of Amerind, Lumbees and Cherokees are similar on genetic calculators, but have different historical origins. I’m willing to say from What I read so far, full blooded Cherokees are mainly a mix of Turk, Caucasus such as Armenia and some sort of Arab/Middle Eastern type, but with small bits of Amerind admix. Now that I think about it, some of that Neolithic Med could be attributed to Middle Eastern. I wish Gedmatch had a custom calculator like McDonald. If anyone knows of one on Gedmatch or elsewhere, please say something. I think you should do more tests. I’ll try to find more with Amerind types on it.

[Herb3.]

Well the good news is: Guys, you have an authentic Cherokee among you! lol

lol :cool: :cool:

[Bobby Martnen]

Surprised this isn't a Richmondbread thread.

[StonyArabia]

The bolded is what's really creeping me out a bit.

The fact that there's definitely some Indian there, in small amount, larger portion of Middle Eastern, which most likely ancient. How the hell did this happen? When did the ME's and Indians pair up and jump in bed together for a bit? lol

Well the Eastern coast of the U.S was often raided by the Barbary Pirates who were mostly of Berber North African stock, but they did have some Arab and Turks among them as well. However that's the only source I can really think off. Maybe it's through the run away Moriscos( Arab and Berber) Muslims and Marrabos who were eventually expelled from Spain and joined in the exploration as Crypto-Muslims or Jews. It's quite strange indeed noneless pretty cool

[Herb3.]

Yeah, basically Lumbee is similar because it’s a mix of European and black African with small bits of Amerind. And since Europeans represent the purest types of Caucasoid people, mixing small amounts of black into it will give a pseudo-Middle Eastern affinity, then with the small bit of Amerind, Lumbees and Cherokees are similar on genetic calculators, but have different historical origins. I’m willing to say from What I read so far, full blooded Cherokees are mainly a mix of Turk, Caucasus such as Armenia and some sort of Arab/Middle Eastern type, but with small bits of Amerind admix. Now that I think about it, some of that Neolithic Med could be attributed to Middle Eastern. I wish Gedmatch had a custom calculator like McDonald. If anyone knows of one on Gedmatch or elsewhere, please say something. I think you should do more tests. I’ll try to find more with Amerind types on it.
It's kinda fascinating.

THanks for sticking around in here even through my initial frustration with you lol. <3

I knew that my grandmother's results were a bit odd for an Afram - Asian being higher than European. Even for a commercial test, it's unusual. So I assumed the Cherokee story was true.
The results paired with the history in my family - my great grandmother's name being Chief. Being a descendant of the Parker family of North Carolina....I knew the pieces were just fitting together and that I indeed had to be Cherokee.

Guess that's where my frustration came from. LOL I know EVERYONE claims to be "Cherokee". So I was like guys PLEASE don't treat me like a wannabe lol. I know my family history. That's where my frustration came from.

The details of what "Cherokee" really is ...is what I needed to know i guess. lol. I'm learning.

[Isleño]

So the Cherokee are basically a Mideasterners mixed with other elements? Quite strange. It's believed that Melungeons were people of Turkish or Arab/Morsico descendants who intermixed with the Amerinds and also other people in the region. However some say that the Melungeon community actually started as freed Black slave men married with indentured European women mostly Irish, the community is formed. So if the Melungeons are of partial Anatolian, Arab, Amerind, Africa ancestry is quite interesing, but where did the Middle Eastern come from?

Yes, it seems Cherokees are not real Amerindians. They have a tiny few percent, but they are mainly Middle Eastern it seems. I think they could even possibly be either Melungeons, or possibly of some other origin maybe before European colonialism or from colonial areas where there were Middle Eastern and Turk settlers. Probably the latter. I read on one article that the traditional homeland of the Cherokee is an area where there were Middle Eastern settlers, Turk settlers, Jew settlers. Melungeons I heard we’re from Iberian men and Native American and African women, and later other whites and blacks mixed in, both of men and women. Not sure if the Cherokees are Melungeons, but they may be some sort of melungeon type that faked it as American Indians. They seem to have a tiny bit of Amerind DNA, but I read that this came from Amerind captives which they allowed to marry in or Amerind neighbors. Strange no?

[Isleño]

Kinda creepy. lol. It's just a bit weird wondering how this all came to be.

Yes, it’s weird. I just stumbled on to this. Before, I thought Cherokees were real Amerindians. I had heard something before that they had Middle Eastern ancestry, but I blew it off and never researched it. Turns out it’s true. How do you feel now that you know you are mixed with Cherokee, but it’s not Amerind, it’s mostly Middle Eastern with a tiny bit Amerind? This has to crazy for you.

[Isleño]

The bolded is what's really creeping me out a bit.

The fact that there's definitely some Indian there, in small amount, larger portion of Middle Eastern, which most likely ancient. How the hell did this happen? When did the ME's and Indians pair up and jump in bed together for a bit? lolActually one of those links I posted said the homeland of the Cherokees is an area known to have Middle Eastern settlers, Turkish settlers and Jewish settlers. I think it might not be ancient, but colonial.

[Isleño]

Well the good news is: Guys, you have an authentic Cherokee among you! lol

lol :cool: :cool:
well I wouldn’t say an authentic Cherokee, but a person that is mixed with authentic Cherokee :) Gotta be factual right?

[Isleño]

Well the Eastern coast of the U.S was often raided by the Barbary Pirates who were mostly of Berber North African stock, but they did have some Arab and Turks among them as well. However that's the only source I can really think off. Maybe it's through the run away Moriscos( Arab and Berber) Muslims and Marrabos who were eventually expelled from Spain and joined in the exploration as Crypto-Muslims or Jews. It's quite strange indeed noneless pretty cool
It could be any of those. It could also be colonial too. We need to research it more because it’s so shocking lol

[Herb3.]

Well the Eastern coast of the U.S was often raided by the Barbary Pirates who were mostly of Berber North African stock, but they did have some Arab and Turks among them as well. However that's the only source I can really think off. Maybe it's through the run away Moriscos( Arab and Berber) Muslims and Marrabos who were eventually expelled from Spain and joined in the exploration as Crypto-Muslims or Jews. It's quite strange indeed noneless pretty cool

Interesting.

I've noticed that people seem fascinated by the way I look. Not because I'm super duper Denzel Washington type handsome or anything but mainly because of my hair, bone structure and overall appearance. They always say "I've never seen hair likes yours before" lol

And honestly I have to say I've never seen another man here in NYC who looks just like me. I have this weird wavy curly type of hair. And it lays very flat. Looks similar to this:

http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20120216-Egypte_louvre_166_visage.jpg

One of my coworkers said she was watching a documentary on Mummies and when they opened the tombs to view them she said "Omg that's how Herbs hair looks" lmaooo
I took offense to it initially. lol

But comments like that is what made me look into my ancestry. lol
I knew of my great grandma Chief but never really cared because A) I'm relatively young and B) I thought something that far back couldn't be relevant to me today. lol

[Herb3.]

well I wouldn’t say an authentic Cherokee, but a person that is mixed with authentic Cherokee :) Gotta be factual right?

Right. LOL!!! :cool: :cool:

[Herb3.]

Yes, it’s weird. I just stumbled on to this. Before, I thought Cherokees were real Amerindians. I had heard something before that they had Middle Eastern ancestry, but I blew it off and never researched it. Turns out it’s true. How do you feel now that you know you are mixed with Cherokee, but it’s not Amerind, it’s mostly Middle Eastern with a tiny bit Amerind? This has to crazy for you.

It's kinda crazy that my DNA actually proves these studies to be true.

I'm sure many people would laugh at articles that say Cherokees aren't completely Indian - since they are the most referenced tribe known to man LOL!!! :picard1: :picard1:

This whole situation just has me wondering about how I came to be. I mean it's not a GIGANTIC portion of my ancestry but it's definitely significant. It's pretty clear where my African and European ancestry came from. But this is a puzzler.

[Isleño]

It's kinda fascinating.

THanks for sticking around in here even through my initial frustration with you lol. <3

I knew that my grandmother's results were a bit odd for an Afram - Asian being higher than European. Even for a commercial test, it's unusual. So I assumed the Cherokee story was true.
The results paired with the history in my family - my great grandmother's name being Chief. Being a descendant of the Parker family of North Carolina....I knew the pieces were just fitting together and that I indeed had to be Cherokee.

Guess that's where my frustration came from. LOL I know EVERYONE claims to be "Cherokee". So I was like guys PLEASE don't treat me like a wannabe lol. I know my family history. That's where my frustration came from.

The details of what "Cherokee" really is ...is what I needed to know i guess. lol. I'm learning.
Of course my friend. I’ve been into DNA for a very long time, even way before I joined this site in 2014. I know that commercial tests are only good to a certain extent. To get a general idea. Often they hide components in other categories. That’s why I said go to Gedmatch because it’s for advanced DNA enthusiasts, not laymen for which the commercial tests are created for. But I said that Central Asian could be anything. And it turns out it was something else, real Central Asian and Middle Eastern, not connecting Amerinds to a prehistoric past there. The article I posted even had a Cherokee chief with an Anatolian name and it spoke of Armenia also. That’s the reasonable conclusion, to get all the evidence from the commercial test and Gedmatch and then make your decision. Seems it is a Turkish, Caucasus, Arab/Jew type mix with a tiny bit of Amerind admix.

I knew you,were getting frustrated, but I also knew you didn’t know better :) No worries bro.

[Isleño]

Interesting.

I've noticed that people seem fascinated by the way I look. Not because I'm super duper Denzel Washington type handsome or anything but mainly because of my hair, bone structure and overall appearance. They always say "I've never seen hair likes yours before" lol

And honestly I have to say I've never seen another man here in NYC who looks just like me. I have this weird wavy curly type of hair. And it lays very flat. Looks similar to this:

http://factsanddetails.com/media/2/20120216-Egypte_louvre_166_visage.jpg

One of my coworkers said she was watching a documentary on Mummies and when they opened the tombs to view them she said "Omg that's how Herbs hair looks" lmaooo
I took offense to it initially. lol

But comments like that is what made me look into my ancestry. lol
I knew of my great grandma Chief but never really cared because A) I'm relatively young and B) I thought something that far back couldn't be relevant to me today. lol
Actually, the ancient Egyptians wore wigs often. Most of them had wavy hair. Ive posted pics of them in other threads before. But I get what you mean. Hey, if there was any Egyptian in there, you could be a descendant of them! But you don’t know this, it would be speculation. You’d have to investigate to see if there was. Check your mother’s maternal haplogroup. I posted one article of a man mentioning it’s possible, but the other article focused more on Turkey and Armenia, which matches a lot with the Central Asian percentage and also possibly some Jew in there. You’d have to google your ass off.

[Herb3.]

Of course my friend. I’ve been into DNA for a very long time, even way before I joined this site in 2014. I know that commercial tests are only good to a certain extent. To get a general idea. Often they hide components in other categories. That’s why I said go to Gedmatch because it’s for advanced DNA enthusiasts, not laymen for which the commercial tests are created for. But I said that Central Asian could be anything. And it turns out it was something else, real Central Asian and Middle Eastern, not connecting Amerinds to a prehistoric past there. The article I posted even had a Cherokee chief with an Anatolian name and it spoke of Armenia also. That’s the reasonable conclusion, to get all the evidence from the commercial test and Gedmatch and then make your decision. Seems it is a Turkish, Caucasus, Arab/Jew type mix with a tiny bit of Amerind admix.

I knew you,were getting frustrated, but I also knew you didn’t know better :) No worries bro.
*hug*

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Wtf

[Herb3.]

Actually, the ancient Egyptians wore wigs often. Most of them had wavy hair. Ive posted pics of them in other threads before. But I get what you mean. Hey, if there was any Egyptian in there, you could be a descendant of them! But you don’t know this, it would be speculation. You’d have to investigate to see if there was. Check your mother’s maternal haplogroup. I posted one article of a man mentioning it’s possible, but the other article focused more on Turkey and Armenia, which matches a lot with the Central Asian percentage and also possibly some Jew in there. You’d have to google your ass off.

Yeah I doubt I'm a direct descendant of the Egyptians lol I'd say my hair is very close to a lot of Somalis/Ethiopians.

Which actually makes sense considering they're a mix of African + Middle Eastern as well.

My hair looks a little weird when compared to other types commonly found here in America.

Very very close to these guys. If not identical.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/afar-men-tigray-ethiopia-tribe-man-curly-hair-facial-tattoos-83625676.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/12/article-2555821-1B5A59CE00000578-782_470x466.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/12/article-2555821-1B5A5A1B00000578-206_470x423.jpg

[Isleño]

It's kinda crazy that my DNA actually proves these studies to be true.

I'm sure many people would laugh at articles that say Cherokees aren't completely Indian - since they are the most referenced tribe known to man LOL!!! :picard1: :picard1:

This whole situation just has me wondering about how I came to be. I mean it's not a GIGANTIC portion of my ancestry but it's definitely significant. It's pretty clear where my African and European ancestry came from. But this is a puzzler.This solves another big American mystery. You know how there are many white Americans and black Americans that claim partial Amerind ancestry, but DNA tests prove them to not have it or to have it so low it’s 1%? Well they are probably getting random Central Asian and Middle Eastern scores out of the ordinary for Europeans or Africans and that might be the “American Indian” they thought they had! But it would be harder to decipher in a white person than a black person since whites and Middle Easterners share DNA. But it’s easier to find in a black person such as yourself. The oracle could still pinpoint it a little I assume, but still harder to find among whites than blacks. Maybe this is the mystery solved of the century!

[Isleño]

Wtf

Wtf is what I said when I discovered these “American Indians” called Cherokees having mostly Middle Eastern/Central Asian DNA. The oracle proved the studies to be right. He is part Cherokee, but Cherokee is mostly not Amerind, but a Middle Eastern/Central Asian mix with small bits of Amerind DNA.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Wtf is what I said when I discovered these “American Indians” called Cherokees having mostly Middle Eastern/Central Asian DNA. The oracle proved the studies to be right. He is part Cherokee, but Cherokee is mostly not Amerind, but a Middle Eastern/Central Asian mix with small bits of Amerind DNA.

Trolling, right? :)

[Herb3.]

This solves another big American mystery. You know how there are many white Americans and black Americans that claim partial Amerind ancestry, but DNA tests prove them to not have it or to have it so low it’s 1%? Well they are probably getting random Central Asian and Middle Eastern scores out of the ordinary for Europeans or Africans and that might be the “American Indian” they thought they had! But it would be harder to decipher in a white person than a black person since whites and Middle Easterners share DNA. But it’s easier to find in a black person such as yourself. The oracle could still pinpoint it a little I assume, but still harder to find among whites than blacks. Maybe this is the mystery solved of the century!

Very true, especially among the Cherokee population.

I just knew it was true because of my family history. Our names, our location. It just made sense.

Plus, the test. I tested my grandmother from the other side of my family and she returned 0% "Asian", whereas my maternal grandmother and I scored 10% and 6% respectively.

https://i.imgur.com/HpZCvKg.jpg?1

[Profileid]

7 pages of this guy bullshitting and ignoring requests to post gedmatch calcs

[Richmondbread]

A lot of Full blooded Cherokees look white. It isn't a "myth". That is made up by PC liberals. The Cherokees are probably descended from Mongolians and Russian type Europeans.

[Herb3.]

7 pages of this guy bullshitting and ignoring requests to post gedmatch calcs

I posted them already - he reviewed them and gave feedback. Keep up.
Read the thread , you'll learn something. Seriously.

[Richmondbread]

7 pages of this guy bullshitting and ignoring requests to post gedmatch calcs

You can't say I didn't post my GEDMATCH results.

[Isleño]

Trolling, right? :)No, not trolling. I was trying to help him to find out if the ancestry was Cherokee Indian or not. I researched a little and started coming across DNA studies that suggested the Cherokee were not Amerinds, but were Middle Easterners with small bits of Amerind DNA. So I investigated more and it showed the same. Then he submitted his DNA results and it showed he was part Middle Eastern instead of Amerind. Then I told him to use MDLP world 22 on gedmatch because it’s good at identifying Amerind ancestry and he did it and the oracle-4 put him at 3 Sub-Saharan groups and a Lumbee tribe (not a real Amerind tribe, they are triracial European, Sub-Saharan and Amerind, but with small Amerind) and his other matches further away were sub-Saharan and Ashkenazi. So it seems to hold true that Cherokee is not really Amerind, but a mix of possibly Middle Eastern/Anatolian and Central Asian (Armenia?) bit with small bits of European and Amerind ancestry.

[Profileid]

You can't say I didn't post my GEDMATCH results.

they showed you had more african than native

[Profileid]

I posted them already - he reviewed them and gave feedback. Keep up.
Read the thread , you'll learn something. Seriously.

just saw. that amerindian looks real

[Herb3.]

No, not trolling. I was trying to help him to find out if the ancestry was Cherokee Indian or not. I researched a little and started coming across DNA studies that suggested the Cherokee were not Amerinds, but were Middle Easterners with small bits of Amerind DNA. So I investigated more and it showed the same. Then he submitted his DNA results and it showed he was part Middle Eastern instead of Amerind. Then I told him to use MDLP world 22 on gedmatch because it’s good at identifying Amerind ancestry and he did it and the oracle-4 put him at 3 Sub-Saharan groups and a Lumbee tribe (not a real Amerind tribe, they are triracial European, Sub-Saharan and Amerind, but with small Amerind) and his other matches further away were sub-Saharan and Ashkenazi. So it seems to hold true that Cherokee is not really Amerind, but a mix of possibly Middle Eastern/Anatolian and Central Asian (Armenia?) bit with small bits of European and Amerind ancestry.

My mind is still blown. I have so much research to do. Feels so weird. All this mysterious history in my body lol

[Isleño]

A lot of Full blooded Cherokees look white. It isn't a "myth". That is made up by PC liberals. The Cherokees are probably descended from Mongolians and Russian type Europeans.
Actually it’s looking like it’s not a myth at all. Turns out the DNA is real and Cherokees are Middle Eastern/Central Asian mix with small bits of European and Amerind. Herb’s DNA matches this also. I wouldn’t say it’s liberal pc shit because several unaffiliated articles and companies are posting the same things. Cherokees are similar to Lumbees in the regard that they are “acting Amerinds” rather than genuine Amerinds.

[Isleño]

they are come from us
I think they partially do come from you and possibly Armenians and other Middle Easterners such as Levantines or Egyptians. Maybe a mix of all these.

[Richmondbread]

I am probably more NA than the OP.

[Isleño]

just saw. that amerindian looks real

I agree. The Amerind looks real. I counted 2.92% Amerind on his MDLP world 22 and about 7%-8% Middle Eastern. From what I’ve read so far, Cherokees are mostly Middle Eastern/Central Asian, but have a small amount of Amerind.

[Herb3.]

I am probably more NA than the OP.

LOL Not so fast. I got about 3% in there.

[Isleño]

I am probably more NA than the OP.

Wasn’t your Amerind like .95%? The OP is 2.92% Amerind.

[Richmondbread]

Wasn’t your Amerind like .95%? The OP is 2.92% Amerind.

1.82% and probably more than that. But they counted the rest as Jewish for some reason.

[Herb3.]

I agree. The Amerind looks real. I counted 2.92% Amerind on his MDLP world 22 and about 7%-8% Middle Eastern. From what I’ve read so far, Cherokees are mostly Middle Eastern/Central Asian, but have a small amount of Amerind.

My only confusion is where did the mingling begin between ME's and Indians?

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/trollface/jackie-chan-meme-smiley-emoticon.png

Kinda cool to know that I'm a textbook Cherokee, though. (Part Cherokee lol)

Although the AmerIndian is minimal, proud to have it there, and the history seems even more fascinating to me now than before.

I mean it's clear how most of my African and European ancestors got in contact with one another (unfortunately lol), but this is intriguing.

[Nurzat]

What test is this? I have documented Native American ancestry on my family tree, with legal eligible membership to the Patawomeck tribe, and 1.82% and they still call me a fake Indian on here.

<2% is very low though. I hit over 3 to almost 6% Siberian/Northeast Asian depending on the GedMATCH run and still I cannot call myself part Asian, lol. over 10% or better 12% (>1/8) starts to be legit I think. it means at least 1 great-grandparent who is fully of that ethnic group.

or the Iberians that score 4 to 6% subSaharan African (the average is lower, maybe 2%, but many score as high as 4-5-6%), you cannot call them part-African.

[Isleño]

1.82% and probably more than that. But they counted the rest as Jewish for some reason.
If you want to count the Jewish as “Cherokee Amerind” post your results let me take a look what you got. But remember, although this is passed off as Amerind, it’s not. Your real Amerind is 1.82%. Herb got you beat by over a percent.

[Maintenance]

Guys, amerindian is south american native and not nort american, so cant be cherokee

[Isleño]

My only confusion is where did the mingling begin between ME's and Indians?

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/trollface/jackie-chan-meme-smiley-emoticon.png

Kinda cool to know that I'm a textbook Cherokee, though. (Part Cherokee lol)

Although the AmerIndian is minimal, proud to have it there, and the history seems even more fascinating to me now than before.

I mean it's clear how most of my African and European ancestors got in contact with one another (unfortunately lol), but this is intriguing.
I thought of another scenario. They could have started out as real Amerinds, but became watered down over the colonial period with Middle Eastern and Central Asian settlers in the Carolinas and Appalachia. That could explain why they identify as Amerinds and are mostly not. Just look at today how many obviously non-Amerind Americans identify as Amerind. Could be happening again, lol

[Maintenance]

Native swede is more native american than both of you xD

[Herb3.]

I thought of another scenario. They could have started out as real Amerinds, but became watered down over the colonial period with Middle Eastern and Central Asian settlers in the Carolinas and Appalachia. That could explain why they identify as Amerinds and are mostly not. Just look at today how many obviously non-Amerind Americans identify as Amerind. Could be happening again, lol

Yes, I cringe every time I see a "Bob" looking man dressed up as an Indian.

As much as I love ancestry research I just couldn't see myself going that far with things. I think some people are more in love with the whole "show" of it all than the history.

[Isleño]

Guys, amerindian is south american native and not nort american, so cant be cherokee

Yes it can. On MDLP world 22 there are both Arctic Amerind and North Amerind. He scores on both. He also scores on the other two, the mesoamerican and the South American Indian. All of these groups are genetically related and have related markers. Not to mention, settlements of North American Amerinds have gone south before and South American Indians have gone north before as in the Caribbean Indians. His 2.92% is real. The rest of his Cherokee is Middle Eastern/Central Asian. He showed 6.02% Near East, plus there was a possible percent from west Asia and possible percentages from Neolithic Med. He could possibly be 10%-11% “Cherokee”, but with only under 3% real Amerind.

[Isleño]

Yes, I cringe every time I see a "Bob" looking man dressed up as an Indian.

As much as I love ancestry research I just couldn't see myself going that far with things. I think some people are more in love with the whole "show" of it all than the history.
In my opinion, if you don’t look like an Indian, don’t call yourself an Indian. If you are partial, say you are partial. But identifying as an actual Indian, well I think people that have enough DNA to actually look like full blooded Indians should be able to. Think of it like this...300 years ago, would a band of Amerinds mistake you for a non-Indian and attack you? If so, you don’t need to be identifying as an Indian lol but in your case, I’d just say I was partially Amerind. If you want to tell people you are part Cherokee, that’s fine too because the Cherokee are an actual tribe whether they are Amerind or not. But if people specify, American Indian, I’d just say I was partial if I were you. If you tried to explain this Cherokee origin story to average Americans, they will think you are a looney toon.

[Maintenance]

Mesoamerican -
Arctic-Amerind 0.30
South-America_Amerind 1.85
North-Amerind 0.46

xD

[Isleño]

Mesoamerican -
Arctic-Amerind 0.30
South-America_Amerind 1.85
North-Amerind 0.46

xDIs this yours? In his case it’s real Amerind because of his area, ancestry and history. These things are all factors. One can’t go by calculators alone. History, ancestry and area needs to be factored in to decide if it’s real or not.

[Isleño]

..

[Maintenance]

Is this yours? In his case it’s real Amerind because of his area, ancestry and history. These things are all factors. One can’t go by calculators alone. History, ancestry and area needs to be factored in to decide if it’s real or not.

random swedish result

[Herb3.]

In my opinion, if you don’t look like an Indian, don’t call yourself an Indian. If you are partial, say you are partial. But identifying as an actual Indian, well I think people that have enough DNA to actually look like full blooded Indians should be able to. Think of it like this...300 years ago, would a band of Amerinds mistake you for a non-Indian and attack you? If so, you don’t need to be identifying as an Indian lol but in your case, I’d just say I was partially Amerind. If you want to tell people you are part Cherokee, that’s fine too because the Cherokee are an actual tribe whether they are Amerind or not. But if people specify, American Indian, I’d just say I was partial if I were you. If you tried to explain this Cherokee origin story to average Americans, they will think you are a looney toon.
lmaoooooo

I honestly think I'd just call it like it is when someone asks. I'm mixed. African-American with some Middle Eastern and some Native American.

If I say I'm part Cherokee , A) they'll think I'm lying since everyone says that or B) they'll think that I am saying I am "part Indian" as supposed to the breakdown of what Cherokee is. Then, to get into the breakdown would literally make me look stupid as you said. lmao. Anyone who thinks "Cherokee" thinks of Sitting Bull. Not Aladdin with a little bit of Sitting Bull up in him somewhere LOL.

[Maintenance]

lmaoooooo

I honestly think I'd just call it like it is when someone asks. I'm mixed. African-American with some Middle Eastern and some Native American.

If I say I'm part Cherokee , A) they'll think I'm lying since everyone says that or B) they'll think that I am saying I am "part Indian" as supposed to the breakdown of what Cherokee is. Then, to get into the breakdown would literally make me look stupid as you said. lmao. Anyone who thinks "Cherokee" thinks of Sitting Bull. Not Aladdin with a little bit of Sitting Bull up in him somewhere LOL.

How much american do you score on 23andme?

im gonna try to get the raw data from my friend, he score 1% central american

[Ajeje Brazorf]

No, not trolling. I was trying to help him to find out if the ancestry was Cherokee Indian or not. I researched a little and started coming across DNA studies that suggested the Cherokee were not Amerinds, but were Middle Easterners with small bits of Amerind DNA. So I investigated more and it showed the same. Then he submitted his DNA results and it showed he was part Middle Eastern instead of Amerind. Then I told him to use MDLP world 22 on gedmatch because it’s good at identifying Amerind ancestry and he did it and the oracle-4 put him at 3 Sub-Saharan groups and a Lumbee tribe (not a real Amerind tribe, they are triracial European, Sub-Saharan and Amerind, but with small Amerind) and his other matches further away were sub-Saharan and Ashkenazi. So it seems to hold true that Cherokee is not really Amerind, but a mix of possibly Middle Eastern/Anatolian and Central Asian (Armenia?) bit with small bits of European and Amerind ancestry.

I documented a bit 'and I realized that you're right. There are not only archaeological but also linguistic evidence of Syrian, Chinese and Black colonization in parts of the United States that took place hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. All Native Americans have a percentage derived from these colonizers.

[Herb3.]

And I agree that it's not cool to just call yourself an Indian simply because you definitely have some ancestry. I mean, what about the other majority of your DNA ? lol

Many people definitely see me as "mixed" - identifiably Black but "he got something else up in there". LOL That kinda thing. And I accept that and can identify as such.

[Isleño]

lmaoooooo

I honestly think I'd just call it like it is when someone asks. I'm mixed. African-American with some Middle Eastern and some Native American.

If I say I'm part Cherokee , A) they'll think I'm lying since everyone says that or B) they'll think that I am saying I am "part Indian" as supposed to the breakdown of what Cherokee is. Then, to get into the breakdown would literally make me look stupid as you said. lmao. Anyone who thinks "Cherokee" thinks of Sitting Bull. Not Aladdin with a little bit of Sitting Bull up in him somewhere LOL.
I agree 100%. But if you say you are mostly black, but with a little Middle Eastern and a little Amerind, they might ask where did you get the Middle Eastern. Then you gotta come with an answer. It would be truthful, but it would be either to tell them the truth and look foolish to them or to bullshit them and look foolish to yourself lol

[Maintenance]

And I agree that it's not cool to just call yourself an Indian simply because you definitely have some ancestry. I mean, what about the other majority of your DNA ? lol

Many people definitely see me as "mixed" - identifiably Black but "he got something else up in there". LOL That kinda thing. And I accept that and can identify as such.

Also people look down on mexican as a lower class citizen, in reality people should call themselves 1% mexican instead of cherokee or native american or whatever.
Some mexicans score 70+ native american but nobody goes around bragging about being 1/14th mexican xD

[Isleño]

random swedish result

Well we know the Amerind is Swedes is not real. It’s just Siberian/North Eurasian type DNA. Although historically related, not the same. So in Swedes, the Amerind percentages are false and represent a different group of people.

[Isleño]

How much american do you score on 23andme?

im gonna try to get the raw data from my friend, he score 1% central american

Run his raw data on MDLP world 22

[Maintenance]

Run his raw data on MDLP world 22

yea i msged him but he went offline.

Will call him later.

Is his 1% also fake? rest of his result is swede

[Herb3.]

I agree 100%. But if you say you are mostly black, but with a little Middle Eastern and a little Amerind, they might ask where did you get the Middle Eastern. Then you gotta come with an answer. It would be truthful, but it would be either to tell them the truth and look foolish to them or to bullshit them and look foolish to yourself lol

I know. It's a mess. LOL But hey, if they're the one asking.....be prepared for my answer. :cool:

I only have those conversations when people ask me. But honestly it may just be easier to say Black and Middle Eastern. It's the truth and it's just enough to satisfy a curiosity. I don't HAVE to do a powerpoint presentation lol and the Middle Eastern is actually what I'd call significant enough to mention. The NA, not so much. It's still part of my history and I'm proud. But just to simplify things as much as possible. lol

[Isleño]

I documented a bit 'and I realized that you're right. There are not only archaeological but also linguistic evidence of Syrian, Chinese and Black colonization in parts of the United States that took place hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. All Native Americans have a percentage derived from these colonizers.
That was a possible outcome of the Middle Eastern score in Cherokees. I read some material that said tests were conducted to see if it was ancient or not. I didn’t get the results of it though. Another article suggested the ancestry was colonial as there were indeed Middle Eastern, Jewish and Turkish and Armenian settlers in the area traditionally considered the Cherokee homeland. As for any small Middle Eastern DNA in all the rest of Amerinds, if you have some evidence of it, post it here. That would be an interesting find and would indeed suggest some sort of pre-European colonial ancestry in which the Cherokee could be the source of that ancestry.

[Herb3.]

Also people look down on mexican as a lower class citizen, in reality people should call themselves 1% mexican instead of cherokee or native american or whatever.
Some mexicans score 70+ native american but nobody goes around bragging about being 1/14th mexican xD


lol You're funny. Is that you in your av

[Maintenance]

lol You're funny. Is that you in your av

yes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z13qnzUQwuI

[Herb3.]

Isleno, I think it just makes more sense to say, I'm Black and Cherokee. LOL.

Now that I think of it. It covers everything and keeps it simple. And it's the truth. lol.

As opposed to getting into Middle Eastern and a "dab of this, dab of that". Making myself into a recipe lol

Cherokee is a way more recent identity I can explain. My middle eastern ancestry is definitely ancient. No way I can track it, but I definitely know who my Cherokee great Grandma is. <3

[Isleño]

And I agree that it's not cool to just call yourself an Indian simply because you definitely have some ancestry. I mean, what about the other majority of your DNA ? lol

Many people definitely see me as "mixed" - identifiably Black but "he got something else up in there". LOL That kinda thing. And I accept that and can identify as such.
I tell no lies that I’ve spoken to quite a few southerners from the US that were white or black that told me they were Indians. Not mixed with Indian, but straight up Indians. I laughed immediately. I remember a conversation I had with a blond, blue eyed woman, very fair skinned in a gas station and we got on the subject of ancestry and DNA and I asked her ancestry and her answer was just straight up, “I’m an American Indian”. I said “really?” While dying inside from laughter, and she said yes, I’m a Cherokee. I kid you not, with a straight face, this Northern German looking girl told me she was an American Indian. She was serious too, I kid you not. The deceit is real!

[Maintenance]

xD
09:48


https://youtu.be/6fv7CqCjiJw?t=9m48s

[Herb3.]

I tell no lies that I’ve spoken to quite a few southerners from the US that were white or black that told me they were Indians. Not mixed with Indian, but straight up Indians. I laughed immediately. I remember a conversation I had with a blond, blue eyed woman, very fair skinned in a gas station and we got on the subject of ancestry and DNA and I asked her ancestry and her answer was just straight up, “I’m an American Indian”. I said “really?” While dying inside from laughter, and she said yes, I’m a Cherokee. I kid you not, with a straight face, this Northern German looking girl told me she was an American Indian. She was serious too, I kid you not. The deceit is real!
Lol.

Meanwhile, I'm sure she doesn't REALLY live a Native American life, as most of them live in poverty and their women are subject to way more instances of rape due to the non-stop sexualization of their images.

I think that being an African-American, it's easier for me to understand how it feels to see someone who doesn't have to LIVE as you do, but wants to dress up and pretend that they are one of you for fun and giggles. Because it's cool, or sexy. Of course until there comes a time where it benefits them not to do so - then their full "Becky" suit goes right back on. lol

So I wouldn't do that to another minority. It's annoying, and more than anything it can be hurtful.

[Isleño]

Also people look down on mexican as a lower class citizen, in reality people should call themselves 1% mexican instead of cherokee or native american or whatever.
Some mexicans score 70+ native american but nobody goes around bragging about being 1/14th mexican xD

That’s silly to say you are 1% Mexican if you are not. Also, Mexican is considered a nationality not a race, although there were the Mexica Indians in Mexico. As for looking down on Mexicans, on the people who have low wage jobs they do that to. Not to people working in offices or executive jobs or such. Mexican Amerind is Amerind, but it’s not native to the southeast USA where the Cherokee “originate” from. Also, there is a sense of pride in modern Americans to have a little Amerind blood, as if it gives you a right to the land or something or like it maybe makes them feel closer to the land. But it’s stupid. Only 100 years ago, white Americans could stand Amerindians. Now they want to have their blood. Makes me think wtf? Seriously? But not all whites claim American Indian blood, just some. The ones that do are hilarious. Just google Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas.

[Isleño]

yea i msged him but he went offline.

Will call him later.

Is his 1% also fake? rest of his result is swedeAbsolutely it’s fake. Swedes are in Europe. Although a few Amerinds were brought to Europe, mainly in Western Europe, during colonial times, it was tiny and was not in Sweden and it’s highly unlikely your friend is 1% Native American. It’s more likely his 1% is Siberian/North Eurasian. Northern Europeans like Swedes have a small percentage of that.

[Herb3.]

xD
09:48


https://youtu.be/6fv7CqCjiJw?t=9m48s
lmao

She's half Native and didn't even mention her tribe? Weird

[Herb3.]

That’s silly to say you are 1% Mexican if you are not. Also, Mexican is considered a nationality not a race, although there were the Mexica Indians in Mexico. As for looking down on Mexicans, on the people who have low wage jobs they do that to. Not to people working in offices or executive jobs or such. Mexican Amerind is Amerind, but it’s not native to the southeast USA where the Cherokee “originate” from. Also, there is a sense of pride in modern Americans to have a little Amerind blood, as if it gives you a right to the land or something or like it maybe makes them feel closer to the land. But it’s stupid. Only 100 years ago, white Americans could stand Amerindians. Now they want to have their blood. Makes me think wtf? Seriously? But not all whites claim American Indian blood, just some. The ones that do are hilarious. Just google Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas.

lmaoooo

That story about her passing a picture on the wall, as if it were proof. I love her lmaoo

[Isleño]

Isleno, I think it just makes more sense to say, I'm Black and Cherokee. LOL.

Now that I think of it. It covers everything and keeps it simple. And it's the truth. lol.

As opposed to getting into Middle Eastern and a "dab of this, dab of that". Making myself into a recipe lol

Cherokee is a way more recent identity I can explain. My middle eastern ancestry is definitely ancient. No way I can track it, but I definitely know who my Cherokee great Grandma is. <3Well you could say black and Cherokee. It won’t be a lie. They don’t know what a Cherokee really is though. They will be thinking sitting bull and now your mind is on Aladdin. They’ll be thinking frybread and you’ll be thinking hummus. They’ll be thinking horse and you’ll be thinking camel. You get the picture :)

[Herb3.]

Well you could say black and Cherokee. It won’t be a lie. They don’t know what a Cherokee really is though. They will be thinking sitting bull and now your mind is on Aladdin. They’ll be thinking frybread and you’ll be thinking hummus. They’ll be thinking horse and you’ll be thinking camel. You get the picture :)

lmao. Imma just say "Mind yo business , leave me alone!" LOL! :picard1:

[Maintenance]

Absolutely it’s fake. Swedes are in Europe. Although a few Amerinds were brought to Europe, mainly in Western Europe, during colonial times, it was tiny and was not in Sweden and it’s highly unlikely your friend is 1% Native American. It’s more likely his 1% is Siberian/North Eurasian. Northern Europeans like Swedes have a small percentage of that.

Sorry, you lack knowledge about native americans.

Put things together and you got the reason why swedes got native american (real native american)

Scandinavias went to the new world before colonisation area, they took people back to iceland and scandinavia.
There is also a route where natives have wandered thru north america thru russia and northern scandinavia.
hence why the northern sami people who havent mixed that much look dark and native american.

Also the worl-22 was a brazilian sample to test you.

;)

[Isleño]

lmao. Imma just say "Mind yo business , leave me alone!" LOL! :picard1:

I knew another white southerner that had a Native American tattoo with the feathers and all and he actually took a DNA test and it said 0% Native American. He didn’t go into Gedmatch because he was a layman, but he was devastated. What I don’t get is how did white Americans and black Americans get to the point where they think they are part Native American? I mean whites hated them before and blacks used to say they were Indian to cover up the fact that it was white in their family. Shit is crazy. Not all Americans are like that, but in the south I think there are more of these people than elsewhere. And it’s ALWAYS a Cherokee. I live in South Louisiana and there are a few here that claim Choctaw admixture, these are most of the time predominately Cajun ancestry with Choctaw admixture. Some of these I believe though because some of them have light mestizo looks. But those elsewhere with those Cherokee stories, it’s ridiculous.

[Kamal900]

I knew another white southerner that had a Native American tattoo with the feathers and all and he actually took a DNA test and it said 0% Native American. He didn’t go into Gedmatch because he was a layman, but he was devastated. What I don’t get is how did white Americans and black Americans get to the point where they think they are part Native American? I mean whites hated them before and blacks used to say they were Indian to cover up the fact that it was white in their family. Shit is crazy. Not all Americans are like that, but in the south I think there are more of these people than elsewhere. And it’s ALWAYS a Cherokee. I live in South Louisiana and there are a few here that claim Choctaw admixture, these are most of the time predominately Cajun ancestry with Choctaw admixture. Some of these I believe though because some of them have light mestizo looks. But those elsewhere with those Cherokee stories, it’s ridiculous.

I think it's simply because the Cherokees are very well known tribe in Murica contrast to other tribes in the US. I guess they want to be seen by others as exotic or something,.

[Isleño]

Sorry, you lack knowledge about native americans.

Put things together and you got the reason why swedes got native american (real native american)

Scandinavias went to the new world before colonisation area, they took people back to iceland and scandinavia.
There is also a route where natives have wandered thru north america thru russia and northern scandinavia.
hence why the northern sami people who havent mixed that much look dark and native american.

Also the worl-22 was a brazilian sample to test you.

;)
I know plenty about Native Americans. I even mentioned a few have been taken to Europe, mostly Western Europe. However, it’s highly unlikely your friend’s DNA is actual Native American.

Here’s why...

Only a couple of Native Americans were brought by Vikings to Iceland, especially that of a half Viking-Indian mestizo and an Amerind woman. However, Native American ancestry in Iceland is rare and even more rare in Sweden.

“Most surprisingly, we demonstrate that the Icelandic C1 lineage does not belong to any of the four known Native American (C1b, C1c, and C1d) or Asian (C1a) subclades of haplogroup C1. Rather, it is presently the only known member of a new subclade, C1e. While a Native American origin seems most likely for C1e, an Asian or European origin cannot be ruled out.“

“However, given the dense sampling of mtDNA variation in European populations, it is clear that C1e is exceedingly rare, a fact that weighs against a hypothesis of antiquity in Europe.”

“Remember that though C1e is rare in Iceland, its frequency is much higher than in Northern Europe as a whole.”

“This is because there are no other known human mtDNA sequences belong to C1e out of the 6747 complete sequences available in the literature.”

http://http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/icelanders-descended-from-native-americans/#.W4plKCROmhB

[Isleño]

I think it's simply because the Cherokees are very well known tribe in Murica contrast to other tribes in the US. I guess they want to be seen by others as exotic or something,.

I don’t know. Maybe being European is not good enough for them or exotic enough for them. Who knows. Well, White self-loathing is the new fad these days. Or maybe there were a few Amerinds that married into white American families like 300 years ago and the story is still being passed when the blood is not. Ah, the possibilities.

[Kaspias]

Then i'm a cherokee now

https://image.ibb.co/bMZr0K/f1.png

[CommonSense]

He has no Amerindian. Even I get noise level amounts on some tests.

You're a different type of Indian:

https://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/03838630.jpg

:rotfl

[Leto]

@Herb3.
Post your MDLP World results, it's the best for black people.

[Profileid]

I agree. The Amerind looks real. I counted 2.92% Amerind on his MDLP world 22 and about 7%-8% Middle Eastern. From what I’ve read so far, Cherokees are mostly Middle Eastern/Central Asian, but have a small amount of Amerind.

what the fuck

[Profileid]

You're a different type of Indian:

https://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/03838630.jpg

:rotfl

I am Pakistani

[Herb3.]

I knew another white southerner that had a Native American tattoo with the feathers and all and he actually took a DNA test and it said 0% Native American. He didn’t go into Gedmatch because he was a layman, but he was devastated. What I don’t get is how did white Americans and black Americans get to the point where they think they are part Native American? I mean whites hated them before and blacks used to say they were Indian to cover up the fact that it was white in their family. Shit is crazy. Not all Americans are like that, but in the south I think there are more of these people than elsewhere. And it’s ALWAYS a Cherokee. I live in South Louisiana and there are a few here that claim Choctaw admixture, these are most of the time predominately Cajun ancestry with Choctaw admixture. Some of these I believe though because some of them have light mestizo looks. But those elsewhere with those Cherokee stories, it’s ridiculous.

I think that each group uses Native to explain "looks" in their ancestors. Whites use Native to explain why their ancestor looks like they may have been "of color", and Blacks use it as a more pleasant way of explaining looks of their ancestors - a real conversation of slave rap is often avoided and traded in for Native stories. lol

I trusted my grandmother because she was always upfront with the history of slavery in her family. She never tries to sugarcoat it - she knows there was rape that occurred and that she has a grandmother who was the product of a relationship between a master and his slave. She doesn't doesn't try to hide or romanticize that reality.

So when she said "we're part Cherokee", although I had my reservations (no pun lol), I had a lot of faith in her word.

On a lighter and more fun note, I ran my great grandmother Chief's picture through this race/ethnicity detector (she's not here for a DNA test so this is the next best thing LOL)
And look what popped up under "race"? lol

https://www.betafaceapi.com/demo.html

https://i.imgur.com/qZt7AXn.jpg?1

[Isleño]

..

[Isleño]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHNRf9H7nD4

[Isleño]

I doubt it if you are from Europe.

[Isleño]

@Herb3.
Post your MDLP World results, it's the best for black people.

He posted them on page 4

[Herb3.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHNRf9H7nD4

I'm torn because now it's like - I definitely have ancient history here in America...so doesn't that mean Cherokees are still "native"? Mostly of a different race, but still Native?

I saw those studies regarding Middle Eastern DNA before but had no clue that the samples were taken from an actual reservation (Qualla). I swore that it could have been from some made up wannabe "Cherokee" tribe somewhere (like the ones in that video you posted - they are not recognized/official).

This is kinda crazy.

[Herb3.]

The people in the video you posted were on the search on Jewish/Middle Eastern ancestry of some sort.
My guess it that returned English/Scottish, or other European results . It seemed to return nothing to link them to Israel as they were hoping.

Here are my results from DNA Land before it updated.

https://i.imgur.com/SKNiR85.jpg?1

[Isleño]

I think that each group uses Native to explain "looks" in their ancestors. Whites use Native to explain why their ancestor looks like they may have been "of color", and Blacks use it as a more pleasant way of explaining looks of their ancestors - a real conversation of slave rap is often avoided and traded in for Native stories. lol

I trusted my grandmother because she was always upfront with the history of slavery in her family. She never tries to sugarcoat it - she knows there was rape that occurred and that she has a grandmother who was the product of a relationship between a master and his slave. She doesn't doesn't try to hide or romanticize that reality.

So when she said "we're part Cherokee", although I had my reservations (no pun lol), I had a lot of faith in her word.

On a lighter and more fun note, I ran my great grandmother Chief's picture through this race/ethnicity detector (she's not here for a DNA test so this is the next best thing LOL)
And look what popped up under "race"? lol




Yeah, it’s no surprise now. I just watched a few videos that outlined haplogroup X in Native Americans such as the Cherokee, that originated from the Middle East and Europe, and arrived in the Americas possibly 2,000 years ago. I also came across a blog that had tested DNA tested Cherokees and people had the following Amerind DNA: 2%, 6%, 11%. I also saw the chief of the North Carolina Cherokees, it was mentioned he had 1/8-1/16 Amerind percentage (6%-12%) and he was supposedly a “full blood Cherokee”.

Look at the Cherokee nation youth council 2017-2018

http://www.cherokee.org/portals/0/Images/2017-18%20Tribal%20Youth%20Council.jpg?ver=2017-10-03-163553-217

This is obvious that the Cherokees today are not even full blooded of that Middle Eastern/Caucasus/Anatolian/Jew component, which they seem to be mostly white with a minor amount of blood from that mixed stock. I think that mixed stock may have had some aeuropean in it too.

Look at real American Indians today

Salt River Pima-Maricopa Arizona

https://www.indianz.com/News/2016/04/21/youngriverpeoplescouncil.jpg

[Gründig]

Gedmatch is a great tool but not "superior" in the slightest.

[Herb3.]

Yeah, it’s no surprise now. I just watched a few videos that outlined haplogroup X in Native Americans such as the Cherokee, that originated from the Middle East and Europe, and arrived in the Americas possibly 2,000 years ago. I also came across a blog that had tested DNA tested Cherokees and people had the following Amerind DNA: 2%, 6%, 11%. I also saw the chief of the North Carolina Cherokees, it was mentioned he had 1/8-1/16 Amerind percentage (6%-12%) and he was supposedly a “full blood Cherokee”.

Look at the Cherokee nation youth council 2017-2018

http://www.cherokee.org/portals/0/Images/2017-18%20Tribal%20Youth%20Council.jpg?ver=2017-10-03-163553-217

This is obvious that the Cherokees today are not even full blooded of that Middle Eastern/Caucasus/Anatolian/Jew component, which they seem to be mostly white with a minor amount of blood from that mixed stock. I think that mixed stock may have had some aeuropean in it too.

Look at real American Indians today

Salt River Pima-Maricopa Arizona

https://www.indianz.com/News/2016/04/21/youngriverpeoplescouncil.jpg

This is crazy. It probably wouldn't be as funny or interesting if Cherokee were NOT the most referenced tribe in America. lol

EVERYONE's great grandmother is part Cherokee lol. And yet Cherokees ourselves are not even very American Indian. This has to be the funniest thing ever. And weird, creepy...and very very interesting.

[Herb3.]

I've edited the topic title and credited you in the OP for your help in here, Isleño! It's much appreciated.

*hug*

[Isleño]

I'm torn because now it's like - I definitely have ancient history here in America...so doesn't that mean Cherokees are still "native"? Mostly of a different race, but still Native?

I saw those studies regarding Middle Eastern DNA before but had no clue that the samples were taken from an actual reservation (Qualla). I swore that it could have been from some made up wannabe "Cherokee" tribe somewhere (like the ones in that video you posted - they are not recognized/official).

This is kinda crazy.
Well it could be Native if the ancestry arrived with the Native American ancestors, but it doesn’t look like it. The time frames I’ve seen suggested it came between 2000 years ago and 200 years ago. So even if it came 2000 years ago, it’s still not Native because they were settlers too. Same for colonial times. I’m still researching this topic. I’m all interested now, it’s like a mystery to solve. Another site said the Cherokees at the Qualla Rez tested about a quarter of them had haplogroup T, which around a similar number in Egypt have that number then I watched another video and they pinpointed haplogroup x, which they said came possibly from Israel/Palestine area or Europe, I thought I heard Iberia.

Anyway, both X and T is West Eurasian.

[Isleño]

Gedmatch is a great tool but not "superior" in the slightest.

In my opinion, it’s superior to commercial tests.

[Isleño]

This is crazy. It probably wouldn't be as funny or interesting if Cherokee were NOT the most referenced tribe in America. lol

EVERYONE's great grandmother is part Cherokee lol. And yet Cherokees ourselves are not even very American Indian. This has to be the funniest thing ever. And weird, creepy...and very very interesting.
I know right. When I saw that photo of the Cherokee tribe youth council 2017-2018 I laughed so hard, it’s a pic of straight up white people. Not even Middle Easterners or partial Amerind looking people. They look like regular ol’ white southerners. I was in tears bro, really.

Then I saw another blog about the “Freedmen” who were supposedly the black Cherokees that were put on a non-blood list because they didn’t look like Indians and who ever created the blog posted pictures of black-mixed people, and random Indians from other tribes that have seemingly Amerind or black ancestry mixed in with a few Cherokee pics and trying to pass the whole bunch off as how the Cherokees looked then as in back in the day and then they show white looking people to show how they look now. Kinda crazy shit, but there is some interesting reading material contained there. Check it out:

http://http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Americas/White_cherokee.htm

[Herb3.]

Well it could be Native if the ancestry arrived with the Native American ancestors, but it doesn’t look like it. The time frames I’ve seen suggested it came between 2000 years ago and 200 years ago. So even if it came 2000 years ago, it’s still not Native because they were settlers too. Same for colonial times. I’m still researching this topic. I’m all interested now, it’s like a mystery to solve. Another site said the Cherokees at the Qualla Rez tested about a quarter of them had haplogroup T, which around a similar number in Egypt have that number then I watched another video and they pinpointed haplogroup x, which they said came possibly from Israel/Palestine area or Europe, I thought I heard Iberia.

Anyway, both X and T is West Eurasian.
That makes sense.

2000 years ago would be ancient I'd assume but "Native" would imply, "first here, before every other population".

I definitely have that history as well, but overall Cherokee DNA is not majority "Native".

[Herb3.]

A funny thing - I posted a childhood pic of my mother for classification over a year ago . "Odin" guessed that she was Jew and African. lol.
I thought that was super random. The Cherokee is through her line.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218605-Classify-child

My pic is also included in the thread .

[Herb3.]

I know right. When I saw that photo of the Cherokee tribe youth council 2017-2018 I laughed so hard, it’s a pic of straight up white people. Not even Middle Easterners or partial Amerind looking people. They look like regular ol’ white southerners. I was in tears bro, really.

Then I saw another blog about the “Freedmen” who were supposedly the black Cherokees that were put on a non-blood list because they didn’t look like Indians and who ever created the blog posted pictures of black-mixed people, and random Indians from other tribes that have seemingly Amerind or black ancestry mixed in with a few Cherokee pics and trying to pass the whole bunch off as how the Cherokees looked then as in back in the day and then they show white looking people to show how they look now. Kinda crazy shit, but there is some interesting reading material contained there. Check it out:

http://http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Americas/White_cherokee.htm

Yeah, I remember going to the Cherokee website and seeing the "Chief"s picture pop up. I didn't even want to be associated with the tribe anymore.

I know that genotype doesn't always influence phenotype , but c'mon. The previous Chief at least looked mixed.

You can see the "other" influence in him.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/ChadSmithByPhilKonstantin.jpg/800px-ChadSmithByPhilKonstantin.jpg

[Isleño]

That makes sense.

2000 years ago would be ancient I'd assume but "Native" would imply, "first here, before every other population".

I definitely have that history as well, but overall Cherokee DNA is not majority "Native".
In my opinion, I believe a group of settlers arrived in the southeastern US at some point in history and started marrying into the original Cherokees who probably were full Amerindians as there is a real Cherokee language that is related to other native languages, but there does seem to be words in the language from areas around Armenia and also Turkey. The DNA also points to possible ancestry from Europe and the Israel/Palestine/Egypt area as well. It’s possible there is a Jewish link, not sure. There was supposedly a rock that was found in the south with Hebrew writing on it and it was very old. Maybe the group is not so old and these were settlers that came in the 1600’s-1700’s possibly. I read that the area where the Cherokees called their homeland, there were settlers that were Middle Eastern, Jewish, Turkish, Armenian and European and these just happen to be the ancestries in question related to the DNA. So it’s a big puzzle. But I don’t know. That other source said probably around the Roman period. Maybe it was a bit of both scenarios.

But I think we can agree that the Cherokees are no longer even pure bloods of these mixed melungeon like folks. They seem to be mostly white folks (and a few blacks) that are partially of the mixed melungeon-like Cherokee ancestry.

But again, there is a real Cherokee language that is very related to Amerind languages and their way of dress is Amerind and the sort. So that leads me to believe there was a real Amerind tribe called the Cherokee way back when, but became watered down to the point that they only possessed a few percent of the original tribe’s blood. And now, it’s more watered down as it seems to be mostly whites and a few blacks that are partially of the watered down Middle Eastern version of the previous Amerind Cherokee. .

CRAZY ��

[Isleño]

Yeah, I remember going to the Cherokee website and seeing the "Chief"s picture pop up. I didn't even want to be associated with the tribe anymore.

I know that genotype doesn't always influence phenotype , but c'mon. The previous Chief at least looked mixed.

You can see the "other" influence in him.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/ChadSmithByPhilKonstantin.jpg/800px-ChadSmithByPhilKonstantin.jpg

This is the current chief:

http://www.cherokee.org/portals/0/Images/ChiefBaker_OFFICIAL%202017_LITE.jpg?ver=2017-07-12-143843-993

Real Native Americans 300 years ago would have shot this dude on the prairie thinking he was a European!

[Isleño]

For some reason that blog on the black Cherokees did not work.

Here’s the google search, it’s the first link, click it

https://www.google.com/search?q=cherokee+mulatto&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

[Herb3.]

In my opinion, I believe a group of settlers arrived in the southeastern US at some point in history and started marrying into the original Cherokees who probably were full Amerindians as there is a real Cherokee language that is related to other native languages, but there does seem to be words in the language from areas around Armenia and also Turkey. The DNA also points to possible ancestry from Europe and the Israel/Palestine/Egypt area as well. It’s possible there is a Jewish link, not sure. There was supposedly a rock that was found in the south with Hebrew writing on it and it was very old. Maybe the group is not so old and these were settlers that came in the 1600’s-1700’s possibly. I read that the area where the Cherokees called their homeland, there were settlers that were Middle Eastern, Jewish, Turkish, Armenian and European and these just happen to be the ancestries in question related to the DNA. So it’s a big puzzle. But I don’t know. That other source said probably around the Roman period. Maybe it was a bit of both scenarios.

But I think we can agree that the Cherokees are no longer even pure bloods of these mixed melungeon like folks. They seem to be mostly white folks (and a few blacks) that are partially of the mixed melungeon-like Cherokee ancestry.

But again, there is a real Cherokee language that is very related to Amerind languages and their way of dress is Amerind and the sort. So that leads me to believe there was a real Amerind tribe called the Cherokee way back when, but became watered down to the point that they only possessed a few percent of the original tribe’s blood. And now, it’s more watered down as it seems to be mostly whites and a few blacks that are partially of the watered down Middle Eastern version of the previous Amerind Cherokee. .

CRAZY ��

It's very crazy. Mind blogging and very intriguing. What an amazing history. Wonder how I will explain this to my kids when I have some. lol

I'm not even gonna bother to try explaining this to my grandmother. lol. :picard1: What she knows as her truth is actually truth, anyway. She's Black with some Native ancestry.

She never makes a HUGE deal about her Cherokee heritage, anyway - never saw her dress up as an Indian or try to engage in the culture at all. Or even talk about it much. She was just fine with her gospel, R&B, ham hocks, collard greens and mac /cheese LOL. I'm completely in love with her.

It wasn't until I got older and I constantly got the question, "What are you?", that I began questioning my background. As I said earlier in the thread, most people assume I am a mixed Latino.

I would be interested in adopting some of the Cherokee customs, though. But that's as far as I'd go most likely. Customs, not costumes. lol.

[Herb3.]

For some reason that blog on the black Cherokees did not work.

Here’s the google search, it’s the first link, click it

https://www.google.com/search?q=cherokee+mulatto&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


It worked, I just had to fix the "http:" portion. You had it in there twice. lol

[Isleño]

It's very crazy. Mind blogging and very intriguing. What an amazing history. Wonder how I will explain this to my kids when I have some. lol

I'm not even gonna bother to try explaining this to my grandmother. lol. :picard1: What she knows as her truth is actually truth, anyway. She's Black with some Native ancestry.

She never makes a HUGE deal about her Cherokee heritage, anyway - never saw her dress up as an Indian or try to engage in the culture at all. Or even talk about it much. She was just fine with her gospel, R&B, ham hocks, collard greens and mac /cheese LOL. I'm completely in love with her.

It wasn't until I got older and I constantly got the question, "What are you?", that I began questioning my background. As I said earlier in the thread, most people assume I am a mixed Latino.

I would be interested in adopting some of the Cherokee customs, though. But that's as far as I'd go most likely. Customs, not costumes. lol.
Well, since those foods you named are part of the General Southern cuisine of the south, everybody in the south ate those foods, even Cherokees. By the way, I’ve found a bunch of dubious pics that were named “Cherokee photos” but were from other tribes like the Blackfoot and the Arapaho. It seems some people were trying to make the Cherokee look more Amerind than they were. I found an old pic of actual Cherokees from 1896 and they look like some sort of mix between Middle Eastern, white and Amerindian. Maybe even some black in there, not sure. They look sorta melungeon in a way.

http://www.thomaslegion.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cherokee-indians-georgia-ca-1896.jpg

[Herb3.]

This is kinda amazing -

I am the product of mixing between Africans, Europeans, Middle Easterners and Native Americans, respectively.

Like a human gumbo of sorts. lol

[Herb3.]

Well, since those foods you named are part of the General Southern cuisine of the south, everybody I. The south ate those foods, even Cherokees. By the way, I’ve found a bunch of dubious pics that were named “Cherokee photos” but were from other tribes like the Blackfoot and the Arapaho. It seems some people were trying to make the Cherokee look more Amerind than they were. I found an old pic of actual Cherokees from 1896 and they look like some sort of mix between Middle Eastern, white and Amerindian. Maybe even some black in there, not sure. They look sorta melungeon in a way.

http://www.thomaslegion.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cherokee-indians-georgia-ca-1896.jpg

I caught onto the bolded as well, as I was looking at some pictures on Google lol.

I'm super interested in learning more about Cherokees now. Honestly, before, I kinda didn't see the "huge" deal of why everyone wants to be Cherokee - ultimately it's a different race of people (Asian) who traveled here many years ago and settled.

But now that I know more about Cherokees, the heritage is actually far more interesting to me.

[Token]

I was expecting a serious study, but nope, it was just your wrongly interpreted results.

[Herb3.]

I was expecting a serious study, but nope, it was just your wrongly interpreted results.

lol. Here's a study done at a Cherokee Indian reservation in North Carolina.

https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/cherokee-dna.htm

My results are in line with their findings.

I'll add this link to the OP.

[Gründig]

So much nonsense posted on this thread.

[Leto]

He posted them on page 4
No, MDLP World 22 and World proper are two different things.

[Isleño]

I caught onto the bolded as well, as I was looking at some pictures on Google lol.

I'm super interested in learning more about Cherokees now. Honestly, before, I kinda didn't see the "huge" deal of why everyone wants to be Cherokee - ultimately it's a different race of people (Asian) who traveled here many years ago and settled.

But now that I know more about Cherokees, the heritage is actually far more interesting to me.Actually I think it’s more interesting than real Amerinds. It’s like some sort of puzzle like a mystery and no one knows how or when it happen. I’m gonna research it some more. I will find something out bro lol

I strongly believe there was a real Amerind people called the Cherokee. But I believe they became watered down through miscegenation to the point that they were barely Amerind anymore. I think the proof is in the language, it’s a Native American language, but there are some loan words in it from the Middle East and the Caucasus/Turkey. I assume the same happen to the Lumbee tribe. And with the Cherokees, it happened twice, once with the Middle Eastern/Central Asian replacement and again in modern times with the white and black replacement of that mixed, melungeon type of race.

I do think that full blooded Cherokees of the mixed type were possibly up to a third Amerind. That black Cherokee blog I showed you said the highest person tested among the Cherokee today had 30% Amerind DNA. But I’m not sure if that was a Southeast Cherokee or one from Oklahoma where some of them mixed with other tribes of real Amerinds.

Just look at your DNA percentage on those Gedmatch tests. You got like 7% Natufian on one test, which Natufian comes for Middle Easterners. And on the other test, you got 6% Near East and almost 3% Amerind.

If that was a full blooded Cherokee, maybe the percentages may be close to 70% middle east/Central Asia and like 30% Amerind. Hypothetically maybe.

[Leto]

So much nonsense posted on this thread.
Yep, the guy is just another North American Negro. There's no fucking way the Cherokees are Middle Eastern, what a stupid theory. There was literally no Middle Eastern presence in North America before the Lebanese immigration started in the late 19th century.

[Isleño]

I was expecting a serious study, but nope, it was just your wrongly interpreted results.

The conclusions are pieced together from various sources including DNA studies on the Qualla Reservation and also the findings of haplogroup T and X in significant number. Herb’s admixture is in line with the DNA findings.

There is proof that the Cherokee are mostly not Amerind, whether by recent miscegenation with whites or blacks or with older miscegenation with Middle Easterners and Central Asians.

[Isleño]

So much nonsense posted on this thread.

What is the nonsense?

[Herb3.]

Actually I think it’s more interesting than real Amerinds. It’s like some sort of puzzle like a mystery and no one knows how or when it happen. I’m gonna research it some more. I will find something out bro lol

I strongly believe there was a real Amerind people called the Cherokee. But I believe they became watered down through miscegenation to the point that they were barely Amerind anymore. I think the proof is in the language, it’s a Native American language, but there are some loan words in it from the Middle East and the Caucasus/Turkey. I assume the same happen to the Lumbee tribe. And with the Cherokees, it happened twice, once with the Middle Eastern/Central Asian replacement and again in modern times with the white and black replacement of that mixed, melungeon type of race.

I do think that full blooded Cherokees of the mixed type were possibly up to a third Amerind. That black Cherokee blog I showed you said the highest person tested among the Cherokee today had 30% Amerind DNA. But I’m not sure if that was a Southeast Cherokee or one from Oklahoma where some of them mixed with other tribes of real Amerinds.

Just look at your DNA percentage on those Gedmatch tests. You got like 7% Natufian on one test, which Natufian comes for Middle Easterners. And on the other test, you got 6% Near East and almost 3% Amerind.

If that was a full blooded Cherokee, maybe the percentages may be close to 70% middle east/Central Asia and like 30% Amerind. Hypothetically maybe.
That makes sense.

Most likely was my great great grandparent was 100% Cherokee.

[Isleño]

Yep, the guy is just another North American Negro. There's no fucking way the Cherokees are Middle Eastern, what a stupid theory. There was literally no Middle Eastern presence in North America before the Lebanese immigration started in the late 19th century.
You don’t know that for certain. There were supposedly some settlers in the south around Appalachia that were Middle Eastern, some Jewish, some Turk according to some historians. But we don’t know if there was a more ancient ancestry here before European colonialism or it was during colonialism. 25% of the Qualla Reservation Cherokee tested had haplogroup T, in similar portions as Egyptians actually. Also, there are Armenian and Turkish words found in the Cherokee language. There is also a substantial amount of haplogroup x found in the Cherokee. Both X and T are not Amerind.

[Isleño]

Yep, the guy is just another North American Negro. There's no fucking way the Cherokees are Middle Eastern, what a stupid theory. There was literally no Middle Eastern presence in North America before the Lebanese immigration started in the late 19th century.

He identifies as a black American with Cherokee admixture. His Gedmatch scores support this according to DNA data on Cherokee people.

[Herb3.]

Yep, the guy is just another North American Negro. There's no fucking way the Cherokees are Middle Eastern, what a stupid theory. There was literally no Middle Eastern presence in North America before the Lebanese immigration started in the late 19th century.

They tested DNA right from a reservation in North Carolina. A real one.

https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/cherokee-dna.htm

And I am a descendant of the Parker family of North Carolina. I am indeed part Cherokee.

You're "just" a White person trying to tell me about my family history without reviewing the facts.

[Isleño]

That makes sense.

Most likely was my great great grandparent was 100% Cherokee.

Let’s just suppose you are about 8%-10% Cherokee. Then that would have to be around your 2X great grand parent was 100% Cherokee. Yes, it would seem so. But remember, DNA is very random, so the percentages may have not broken down that way. So it could have been your great-grandparent or your 3X great grand parent. It’s just more probable that it was your 2X great grand parent.

[Richmondbread]

Yep, the guy is just another North American Negro. There's no fucking way the Cherokees are Middle Eastern, what a stupid theory. There was literally no Middle Eastern presence in North America before the Lebanese immigration started in the late 19th century.

There is strong evidence that they were migrated over from Europeans, though.

[Leto]

They tested DNA right from a reservation in North Carolina. A real one.

https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/cherokee-dna.htm

And I am a descendant of the Parker family of North Carolina. I am indeed part Cherokee.

You're "just" a White person trying to tell me about my family history without reviewing the facts.
My whiteness doesn't really matter, lol. It is actually a European forum and you are one of the few blacks here.
Yes, you might have some minor Amerindian admixture. LIke I said, post your MDLP World results. Of course I don't know you or your family.
If the Cherokees are so mixed and miscegenated, then they are not real Amerindians. It's like quadroons calling themselves African Americans or blacks.

[Richmondbread]

Yeah, I remember going to the Cherokee website and seeing the "Chief"s picture pop up. I didn't even want to be associated with the tribe anymore.

I know that genotype doesn't always influence phenotype , but c'mon. The previous Chief at least looked mixed.

You can see the "other" influence in him.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/ChadSmithByPhilKonstantin.jpg/800px-ChadSmithByPhilKonstantin.jpg

If you can't see the Cherokee in him, you need glasses.

[Herb3.]

Let’s just suppose you are about 8%-10% Cherokee. Then that would have to be around your 2X great grand parent was 100% Cherokee. Yes, it would seem so. But remember, DNA is very random, so the percentages may have not broken down that way. So it could have been your great-grandparent or your 3X great grand parent. It’s just more probable that it was your 2X great grand parent.
Yeah it's more so "equivalent" to a great grandparent or 2x great grandparent.

[Herb3.]

If you can't see the Cherokee in him, you need glasses.
Re-read my post.

I was saying he looks mixed. lol He clearly is mixed. He's the former Chief.

He's not the PRESENT Chief. Who looks like a straight up "Bob" lol.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/ChiefBillJohnBakerByPhilKonstantin.jpg/250px-ChiefBillJohnBakerByPhilKonstantin.jpg

[Leto]

The Cherokees seem to be a retarded 'civic nationalist' group. Probably even a bunch of self-hating whites. If you are only 10-15% Amerindian and 85-90% European, you are NOT 'Native American', for God's sake! :picard1:

[Richmondbread]

Everyone in the PC liberal crowd gets offended when any "white" person claims Cherokee. They never get offended as much if a Negro claims it. But heaven forbid you are white. BTW, the reason so many people can claim Cherokee ancestry is because it was one of the largest tribes in America, and the most likely to intermarry with whites. The tribe stretched from SW Virginia to Oklahoma. Anyone with roots deep in those areas is bound to have some kind of it. You can scoff all you want.

[Richmondbread]

Re-read my post.

I was saying he looks mixed. lol He clearly is mixed. He's the former Chief.

He's not the PRESENT Chief. Who looks like a straight up "Bob" lol.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/ChiefBillJohnBakerByPhilKonstantin.jpg/250px-ChiefBillJohnBakerByPhilKonstantin.jpg

The original Cherokees could have easily been mistake as White. I have seen old photographs. They looked off-white to me.

[Herb3.]

The Cherokees seem to be a retarded 'civic nationalist' group. Probably even a bunch of self-hating whites. If you are only 10-15% Amerindian and 85-90% European, you are NOT 'Native American', for God's sake! :picard1:

I do find it unsettling that many of them identify only as Indian. What about the other 90% of your DNA? lol

It's like they took the "one-drop rule" and applied it to Indian blood lol.

And 10% pure Native is being generous . Very generous. So kudos to you.

I think some White people enjoy feeling "oppressed" or "down for the cause". lol

I do believe in identifying as mixed or multi-racial if it's in fact part of your heritage and you know who the ancestors are. Why deny that part of your family? But otherwise...

But I'm not taking my 3% pure Native blood and using that as an excuse to toss out the other 97% of who I am. lol

[Isleño]

That makes sense.

Most likely was my great great grandparent was 100% Cherokee.
Herb, I think we are leaving out some chicken mportant facts....not all Cherokees are the same in different places and there is a Cherokee group in Georgia identical to Creek Indians, whom are actual Amerinds. It just gets deeper and deeper. Take notice to this important part of the article on the DNA:

“There are major inaccuracies in most articles about this controversy. Both DNA Consultants and journalists are inferring that the research results from the Qualla Reservation apply to all Cherokees. Genetic research associated with the filming of the History Channel’s “America Unearthed” found separate populations of Cherokees outside the reservation with very different genetic profiles. In several counties, the “Cherokees” had profiles identical to Georgia Creeks, and often carried Maya DNA like the Georgia Creeks. In one Georgia county, the “Cherokees” had much higher levels of probable Native American DNA than found on the Cherokee Reservation in North Carolina. However, their Native American DNA was predominantly Quechua from South America, or else mixed Quechua, Maya and probable Creek. 3
Many of the residents of the Snowbird Cherokee Reservation in Graham County, NC look like the Zoque Indians of Mexico, who created the Olmec Civilization. 4 These Cherokees are called “Moon Faces” by the Cherokees on the main reservation. There is also a significant portion of the Snowbird Cherokees, who were originally Yuchi Indians from the Cohutta Mountains of northern Georgia. The Snowbird Cherokees evidently were not tested by DNA Consultants, Inc. or at least not treated as a separate DNA Study Group – Their “Oriental” physical appearance suggests a much higher level of Native American DNA than was found on the main Cherokee Reservation.

There is also the problem of the Lower and Valley Cherokees. Their former town names indicate a significant Muskogean and Caribbean heritage. Although the languages of these two original branches of the Cherokees became extinct because of disastrous military losses to the Creeks and British military forces, there was much intermarriage between Cherokee towns prior to then in order to cement political ties. Families descended from these two branches of the Cherokee will have very different DNA patterns than those descended from Overhill and Middle Cherokees (Qualla Reservation area.)”

[Leto]

I do find it unsettling that many of them identify only as Indian. What about the other 90% of your DNA? lol

It's like they took the "one-drop rule" and applied it to Indian blood lol.

And 10% pure Native is being generous . Very generous. So kudos to you.

I think some White people enjoy feeling "oppressed" or "down for the cause". lol

I do believe in identifying as mixed or multi-racial if it's in fact part of your heritage and you know who the ancestors are. Why deny that part of your family? But otherwise...

But I'm not taking my 3% pure Native blood and using that as an excuse to toss out the other 97% of who I am. lol
So how much SSA are you on MDLP World? Show me the result please and I'll log out.

[Isleño]

There is strong evidence that they were migrated over from Europeans, though.
Can you post proof of that? Can you post evidence here please? We are making an argument based on DNA evidence.

[Richmondbread]

Can you post proof of that? Can you post evidence here please? We are making an argument based on DNA evidence.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6157/409 You're Welcome ! :cool:

[Herb3.]

Everyone in the PC liberal crowd gets offended when any "white" person claims Cherokee. They never get offended as much if a Negro claims it. But heaven forbid you are white. BTW, the reason so many people can claim Cherokee ancestry is because it was one of the largest tribes in America, and the most likely to intermarry with whites. The tribe stretched from SW Virginia to Oklahoma. Anyone with roots deep in those areas is bound to have some kind of it. You can scoff all you want.

Oh please. Black people get SLAMMED by other Blacks for claiming Indian unless you visibly display mixed features. It's become a joke in the Black community for people to claim it.

It's seen as delusion and self-hate now, especially since the whole "stay woke" thing has been on the rise. There's been quite a resurgence of the Black Pride movement recently, so if you're claiming anything other than Black, you BETTER look like you're mixed. Otherwise you're getting labeled and slammed.

If you have kinky hair, dark skin and an overall typical Black appearance, no one wants to hear about your "other" ancestry at all.

People usually ask me what I'm mixed with because although I am identifiably Black, they always assume there's something else in me. Or others assume I am mixed Latino. So if I say I am part "other" no one really bats an eye in my community.

But there are definitely social consequences for many Blacks who claim "other". Sad part is that their story could be true, but it's all about what people see with their eyes in America. If you look "just White", no one wants to hear about you being mixed with anything. If you look "just Black", the same goes.

People are usually most interested when a person actually looks ambiguous, regardless of skin tone.

[Isleño]

If you can't see the Cherokee in him, you need glasses.
He could be anything from 1/8-1/4 Amerind as the Cherokee are mixed people. However, he could possess more. Some Cherokees outside of Qualla reservation had higher amounts of real Amerind ancestry than those on the main reservation. However, I caution that he is very mixed as one can see that by his appearance alone and the Cherokee are indeed a mixed race population rather than Amerinds.

[Herb3.]

Herb, I think we are leaving out some chicken mportant facts....not all Cherokees are the same in different places and there is a Cherokee group in Georgia identical to Creek Indians, whom are actual Amerinds. It just gets deeper and deeper. Take notice to this important part of the article on the DNA:

“There are major inaccuracies in most articles about this controversy. Both DNA Consultants and journalists are inferring that the research results from the Qualla Reservation apply to all Cherokees. Genetic research associated with the filming of the History Channel’s “America Unearthed” found separate populations of Cherokees outside the reservation with very different genetic profiles. In several counties, the “Cherokees” had profiles identical to Georgia Creeks, and often carried Maya DNA like the Georgia Creeks. In one Georgia county, the “Cherokees” had much higher levels of probable Native American DNA than found on the Cherokee Reservation in North Carolina. However, their Native American DNA was predominantly Quechua from South America, or else mixed Quechua, Maya and probable Creek. 3
Many of the residents of the Snowbird Cherokee Reservation in Graham County, NC look like the Zoque Indians of Mexico, who created the Olmec Civilization. 4 These Cherokees are called “Moon Faces” by the Cherokees on the main reservation. There is also a significant portion of the Snowbird Cherokees, who were originally Yuchi Indians from the Cohutta Mountains of northern Georgia. The Snowbird Cherokees evidently were not tested by DNA Consultants, Inc. or at least not treated as a separate DNA Study Group – Their “Oriental” physical appearance suggests a much higher level of Native American DNA than was found on the main Cherokee Reservation.

There is also the problem of the Lower and Valley Cherokees. Their former town names indicate a significant Muskogean and Caribbean heritage. Although the languages of these two original branches of the Cherokees became extinct because of disastrous military losses to the Creeks and British military forces, there was much intermarriage between Cherokee towns prior to then in order to cement political ties. Families descended from these two branches of the Cherokee will have very different DNA patterns than those descended from Overhill and Middle Cherokees (Qualla Reservation area.)”

Very interesting. Seems like there's just so many layers to this.

[Isleño]

The Cherokees seem to be a retarded 'civic nationalist' group. Probably even a bunch of self-hating whites. If you are only 10-15% Amerindian and 85-90% European, you are NOT 'Native American', for God's sake! :picard1:

This, I agree with you 100% , if you are only 10%-15% Amerind, you are not an Amerind. You are not even a castizo.

[Herb3.]

So how much SSA are you on MDLP World? Show me the result please and I'll log out.

I identify as Black + Cherokee. MDLP World gives me a mixture of middle eastern/jew results and Native (Lumbee, Costanoan) in Oracle 4.

Caucaus_Parsia 2.93
Middle_East 5.91
Indian -
South_and_West_European 5.79
Melanesian 0.44
Sub_Saharian 65.84
North_and_East_European 4.82
Arctic_Amerind 1.02
East_Asian -
Paleo_African 11.64
Mesoamerican 1.60
North_Asian -

1 Lemba + Lemba + Bantu + Lumbee @ 4.241467
2 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Costanoan @ 4.358716
3 Bantu + Bantu + Costanoan + Mandenka @ 4.556039
4 Lemba + Lemba + Lemba + Lumbee @ 4.610483
5 Lemba + Bantu + Bantu + Lumbee @ 4.964624
6 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 5.265831
7 Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V + Mandenka @ 5.338325
8 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Jew_Romania @ 5.616857
9 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Costanoan @ 5.635173
10 Bantu + Bantu + Jew_Romania + Mandenka @ 5.665997
11 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim @ 5.835963
12 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 5.838790
13 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 5.917000
14 Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim + Mandenka @ 5.965939
15 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim @ 6.033076
16 Yoruba + Yoruba + Bantu + Costanoan @ 6.064849
17 Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim + Mandenka @ 6.081533
18 Lemba + Bantu + Costanoan + Mandenka @ 6.128916
19 Lemba + Bantu + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 6.142478
20 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 6.196084

[Isleño]

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6157/409 You're Welcome ! :cool:

Aw man this is old news, this is the Mal’ta boy ancestry that is present in all Native Americans from the Mal’ta Buret culture in Siberia. This is not what we are talking about, we are talking about the specific non-Amerind ancestry of Cherokees that is not partial like Mal’ta DNA, but that makes up most of their ancestry. Nah, this is not what we are on right now bro

[Leto]

I identify as Black + Cherokee. MDLP World gives me a mixture of middle eastern/jew results and Native (Lumbee, Costanoan) in Oracle 4.

Caucaus_Parsia 2.93
Middle_East 5.91
Indian -
South_and_West_European 5.79
Melanesian 0.44
Sub_Saharian 65.84
North_and_East_European 4.82
Arctic_Amerind 1.02
East_Asian -
Paleo_African 11.64
Mesoamerican 1.60
North_Asian -

1 Lemba + Lemba + Bantu + Lumbee @ 4.241467
2 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Costanoan @ 4.358716
3 Bantu + Bantu + Costanoan + Mandenka @ 4.556039
4 Lemba + Lemba + Lemba + Lumbee @ 4.610483
5 Lemba + Bantu + Bantu + Lumbee @ 4.964624
6 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 5.265831
7 Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V + Mandenka @ 5.338325
8 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Jew_Romania @ 5.616857
9 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Costanoan @ 5.635173
10 Bantu + Bantu + Jew_Romania + Mandenka @ 5.665997
11 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim @ 5.835963
12 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 5.838790
13 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 5.917000
14 Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim + Mandenka @ 5.965939
15 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim @ 6.033076
16 Yoruba + Yoruba + Bantu + Costanoan @ 6.064849
17 Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim + Mandenka @ 6.081533
18 Lemba + Bantu + Costanoan + Mandenka @ 6.128916
19 Lemba + Bantu + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 6.142478
20 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 6.196084
77.5% SSA (Sub-Saharan + Paleo African) and 19.4% Caucasoid. You're about 1/5 West Eurasian, bro and only 2.6% Amerindian. Pretty much a regular Afram.

[indo-uralopean]

Funny how Native Indian substitutes for Ashkenazi. Didn't Oprah get 10+ Native Indian/East Asian, I wonder if this is recent or something from way back in time.

20 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 6.196084
15 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim @ 6.033076

[Herb3.]

77.5% SSA (Sub-Saharan + Paleo African) and 19.4% Caucasoid. You're about 1/5 West Eurasian, bro and only 2.6% Amerindian. Pretty much a regular Afram.
I already said I'm about 3% pure Native. lol

The rest is African and West Eurasian. Are you not reading my posts/replies to you or are you just slow? lol

[Isleño]

I identify as Black + Cherokee. MDLP World gives me a mixture of middle eastern/jew results and Native (Lumbee, Costanoan) in Oracle 4.

Caucaus_Parsia 2.93
Middle_East 5.91
Indian -
South_and_West_European 5.79
Melanesian 0.44
Sub_Saharian 65.84
North_and_East_European 4.82
Arctic_Amerind 1.02
East_Asian -
Paleo_African 11.64
Mesoamerican 1.60
North_Asian -

1 Lemba + Lemba + Bantu + Lumbee @ 4.241467
2 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Costanoan @ 4.358716
3 Bantu + Bantu + Costanoan + Mandenka @ 4.556039
4 Lemba + Lemba + Lemba + Lumbee @ 4.610483
5 Lemba + Bantu + Bantu + Lumbee @ 4.964624
6 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 5.265831
7 Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V + Mandenka @ 5.338325
8 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Jew_Romania @ 5.616857
9 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Costanoan @ 5.635173
10 Bantu + Bantu + Jew_Romania + Mandenka @ 5.665997
11 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim @ 5.835963
12 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 5.838790
13 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 5.917000
14 Bantu + Bantu + Ashkenazim + Mandenka @ 5.965939
15 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim @ 6.033076
16 Yoruba + Yoruba + Bantu + Costanoan @ 6.064849
17 Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim + Mandenka @ 6.081533
18 Lemba + Bantu + Costanoan + Mandenka @ 6.128916
19 Lemba + Bantu + Bantu + Puerto-Rican @ 6.142478
20 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 6.196084Both the Lumbee and Costanoan tribes are mixed race peoples. And of course you know Ashkenazi have both European and Middle Eastern ancestry. The oracle is pretty good. You should try some other calcs in Gedmatch just for fun to see the oracles. Oracle is where it’s at.

[indo-uralopean]

We Wuz Khanz?? Maybe.

https://s15.postimg.cc/d23ysr70b/download.png (https://postimages.org/)
https://s15.postimg.cc/ze1rm60zf/download.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://s15.postimg.cc/v4x1k2ibf/download_1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)best free image hosting (https://postimages.org/)

[Isleño]

77.5% SSA (Sub-Saharan + Paleo African) and 19.4% Caucasoid. You're about 1/5 West Eurasian, bro and only 2.6% Amerindian. Pretty much a regular Afram.

When you put it like that, indeed he looks like a regular Afram. It was even noted in one article that some black American populations on the East Coast of the USA had more Amerind than the Cherokees of Qualla Reservation in North Carolina.

But the thing that I think you are overlooking here is that most of the Cherokees in North Carolina are not Amerindian, but are a mixed people...many of them having European admixture and other admixtures like Middle Eastern, Jewish and possible Armenian and Turk. There seems to be a strong sense among some geneticists that it could be Jewish. Others think Egyptian or Iberian or Anatolian. It’s just a mystery.

So that average looking Afram result, given his family history, could indeed be 8%-10% Cherokee.

[Herb3.]

When you put it like that, indeed he looks like a regular Afram. It was even noted in one article that some black American populations on the East Coast of the USA had more Amerind than the Cherokees of Qualla Reservation in North Carolina.

But the thing that I think you are overlooking here is that most of the Cherokees in North Carolina are not Amerindian, but are a mixed people...many of them having European admixture and other admixtures like Middle Eastern, Jewish and possible Armenian and Turk. There seems to be a strong sense among some geneticists that it could be Jewish. Others think Egyptian or Iberian or Anatolian. It’s just a mystery.

So that average looking Afram result, given his family history, could indeed be 8%-10% Cherokee.

!!!

It's obviously more West Eurasian than Native, but it's where in West Eurasia that my DNA is pulling from that makes a difference.
Aframs don't typically pull significant amounts of Middle Eastern/Ashkenazi-ish DNA. Our history generally isn't in the Middle East. It's Africa, Europe, and possibly America.

[Catarinense1998]

Cherokee/Apalachian blood.

[Herb3.]

Both the Lumbee and Costanoan tribes are mixed race peoples. And of course you know Ashkenazi have both European and Middle Eastern ancestry. The oracle is pretty good. You should try some other calcs in Gedmatch just for fun to see the oracles. Oracle is where it’s at.

It is kinda fun lol

INteresting to see Oracle switching back and forth between "Native" tribes and Ashkenazi.

[Herb3.]

Cherokee/Apalachian blood.

Hey there :)

[Isleño]

Everyone in the PC liberal crowd gets offended when any "white" person claims Cherokee. They never get offended as much if a Negro claims it. But heaven forbid you are white. BTW, the reason so many people can claim Cherokee ancestry is because it was one of the largest tribes in America, and the most likely to intermarry with whites. The tribe stretched from SW Virginia to Oklahoma. Anyone with roots deep in those areas is bound to have some kind of it. You can scoff all you want.But that’s just it. The Cherokee are so mixed, most of them are not traditional Amerindians and they are like a mixed race melungeon kind of person. So if whites were mixed with Cherokee, it wouldn’t be much Amerind in the DNA test, it would be mostly a mix of European and MENA. That could easily come across as they are liars. But it would be kinda untrue while being true. Yes, one could be a substantial amount of Cherokee. But by that same token, the Cherokee are not Amerindians, but are mixed race people. So they would not be substantially American Indian and that’s why they won’t look Amerind or possess much of it in their DNA results.

[Isleño]

Funny how Native Indian substitutes for Ashkenazi. Didn't Oprah get 10+ Native Indian/East Asian, I wonder if this is recent or something from way back in time.

20 Yoruba + Lemba + Bantu + Ashkenazim_V @ 6.196084
15 Yoruba + Bantu + Bantu + Tatar_Crim @ 6.033076Yes it is funny. It’s because of the MENA, European and Central Asian mix is where I draw my conclusion from the DNA results of Cherokees on the Qualla Reservation in North Carolina.

[Herb3.]

But that’s just it. The Cherokee are so mixed, most of them are not traditional Amerindians and they are like a mixed race melungeon kind of person. So if whites were mixed with Cherokee, it wouldn’t be much Amerind in the DNA test, it would be mostly a mix of European and MENA. That could easily come across as they are liars. But it would be kinda untrue while being true. Yes, one could be a substantial amount of Cherokee. But by that same token, the Cherokee are not Amerindians, but are mixed race people. So they would not be substantially American Indian and that’s why they won’t look Amerind or possess much of it in their DNA results.

Someone actually guessed I am "Armenian" in a thread I made to classify me. lol

I was like where the hell did they get that from? I heard Dominican before. Or Caribbean, even, as some guessed in the thread.
But Armenian? I thought the poster was actually being funny/ a jackass. lol

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?215782-Guess-ethnicity

[Isleño]

!!!

It's obviously more West Eurasian than Native, but it's where in West Eurasia that my DNA is pulling from that makes a difference.
Aframs don't typically pull significant amounts of Middle Eastern/Ashkenazi-ish DNA. Our history generally isn't in the Middle East. It's Africa, Europe, and possibly America.

That’s absolutely right. And that fact right there is more convincing of Cherokee ancestry than being just a regular Afram. Actually most Aframs don’t have Native American ancestry and of those that do, it’s less than 1% for most. There are of course exceptions such as some black Americans in Oklahoma or the East Coast.

[Isleño]

It is kinda fun lol

INteresting to see Oracle switching back and forth between "Native" tribes and Ashkenazi.

Here’s another part of the article to pay attention to:

“In 1794 the Federal government gave the Cherokees most of northwest and north central Georgia. In the mountainous sections of this new Cherokee Nation, were other ethnic groups. Their names survive as the names of mountains, creeks and rivers. There are relatively few true Cherokee place names in the entire Southern Highlands. From that day forward, the federal government labeled these minorities as “Cherokees.” Since the Cherokees were more interested in the fertile, riverine bottomlands of northwest Georgia, most, if not all of the minorities were allowed to remain. Because of their relatively small numbers, these minorities were far more likely to have concealed their locations from federal and state troops assigned to round-up the Cherokees. However, virtually all their descendants in Georgia today call themselves Cherokees. Physically, they bear little resemblance to Qualla Cherokees.”

Real Melungeons

[Herb3.]

That’s absolutely right. And that fact right there is more convincing of Cherokee ancestry than being just a regular Afram. Actually most Aframs don’t have Native American ancestry and of those that do, it’s less than 1% for most. There are of course exceptions such as some black Americans in Oklahoma or the East Coast.
Such an amazingly mysterious history to look into. Super proud of everything I am. African - American, Cherokee. I am 100% proud!!!!

[Isleño]

Someone actually guessed I am "Armenian" in a thread I made to classify me. lol

I was like where the hell did they get that from? I heard Dominican before. Or Caribbean, even, as some guessed in the thread.
But Armenian? I thought the poster was actually being funny/ a jackass. lol

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?215782-Guess-ethnicity
Another important paragraph:

“Perhaps the biggest flaw in the interpretation of the Cherokee DNA study was this statement; “The Middle Eastern DNA could not possibly have resulted from post-1492 mixing.” This statement was an effort to present the Cherokees as the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. The DNA interpretation assumed that the Cherokees had always lived in western North Carolina, and therefore the parent population in 1492 already carried Middle Eastern DNA. Several of the Middle Eastern DNA test markers were traced back to pre-Roman Period female ancestors. It was then interpolated that this is when the ancestors of the Cherokees arrived in western North Carolina from the Middle East. The report stated that it was impossible for the offspring of intermittent reproduction between Cherokee females and Middle Eastern males in the Colonial Period to produce a widespread presence of Middle Eastern DNA test markers in the Cherokees. Such would not be the case, if the base population was Middle Eastern colonists and the Native American component was added on an intermittent basis.”

[Isleño]

Such an amazingly mysterious history to look into. Super proud of everything I am. African - American, Cherokee. I am 100% proud!!!!
That’s what you should be proud.

[Richmondbread]

Then it is very possible that Cherokee DNA can be misrepresented as Ashkenazi Jewish on a test?

[Herb3.]

Another important paragraph:

“Perhaps the biggest flaw in the interpretation of the Cherokee DNA study was this statement; “The Middle Eastern DNA could not possibly have resulted from post-1492 mixing.” This statement was an effort to present the Cherokees as the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. The DNA interpretation assumed that the Cherokees had always lived in western North Carolina, and therefore the parent population in 1492 already carried Middle Eastern DNA. Several of the Middle Eastern DNA test markers were traced back to pre-Roman Period female ancestors. It was then interpolated that this is when the ancestors of the Cherokees arrived in western North Carolina from the Middle East. The report stated that it was impossible for the offspring of intermittent reproduction between Cherokee females and Middle Eastern males in the Colonial Period to produce a widespread presence of Middle Eastern DNA test markers in the Cherokees. Such would not be the case, if the base population was Middle Eastern colonists and the Native American component was added on an intermittent basis.”

So the Middle Eastern mixing is much more recent/modern...?

[Herb3.]

Then it is very possible that Cherokee DNA can be misrepresented as Ashkenazi Jewish on a test?

I wouldn't say it'd be a misrepresentation - since Cherokee obviously aren't majority Native. "Ashkenazi" simply seems to pointing more toward Middle Eastern ancestry, which is in line with the DNA findings from the North Carolina reservation .

Its not as if the test is "mistaking" actual Asiatic/Native DNA for Middle Eastern-ish DNA.

[Isleño]

Another important paragraph:

“Perhaps the biggest flaw in the interpretation of the Cherokee DNA study was this statement; “The Middle Eastern DNA could not possibly have resulted from post-1492 mixing.” This statement was an effort to present the Cherokees as the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. The DNA interpretation assumed that the Cherokees had always lived in western North Carolina, and therefore the parent population in 1492 already carried Middle Eastern DNA. Several of the Middle Eastern DNA test markers were traced back to pre-Roman Period female ancestors. It was then interpolated that this is when the ancestors of the Cherokees arrived in western North Carolina from the Middle East. The report stated that it was impossible for the offspring of intermittent reproduction between Cherokee females and Middle Eastern males in the Colonial Period to produce a widespread presence of Middle Eastern DNA test markers in the Cherokees. Such would not be the case, if the base population was Middle Eastern colonists and the Native American component was added on an intermittent basis.”
I think the very last sentence of this paragraph may be the opposite. That the population started off as Amerind and became more MENA until the Amerind ancestry became insignificant. If the base population started as MENA, the language would most probably be a MENA language. Usually, the first population sets the base language and those that become absorbed maintain the base language. Not always, but lots.

[Isleño]

Then it is very possible that Cherokee DNA can be misrepresented as Ashkenazi Jewish on a test?
Yes, very possible.

[Richmondbread]

Yes, very possible.

That is what I suspected.... I got 4.7% Ashkenazi on the 23andme. I have unverified Cherokee reports on my family tree. But I am documented Patawomeck.

[Herb3.]

I think the very last sentence of this paragraph may be the opposite. That the population started off as Amerind and became more MENA until the Amerind ancestry became insignificant. If the base population started as MENA, the language would most probably be a MENA language. Usually, the first population sets the base language and those that become absorbed maintain the base language. Not always, but lots.

It's so much going on lol :picard1:

[Isleño]

So the Middle Eastern mixing is much more recent/modern...?
It saying the mistake was to assume they were,the lost tribe of Israel. The report actually did say the genetic markers date back to pre-Roman period ancestors and that they used that as ammunition for the argument that the MENA been there since pre-Roman Times, so for thousands of years. The report said that it was impossible for colonial MENA to be widespread. But the ending sentence says it could be possible if the base population was MENA colonists and Amerind was gradually added over time.

But I agree with the report rather than the last sentence because in my opinion, the language gives it away. The Cherokee language, while although having MENA borrowed words, is an Amerind related language. That suggests the base population was Amerind and they added MENA over time as the borrowed words are fewer than the Amerind words which makes up,the base of the language.

[Isleño]

That is what I suspected.... I got 4.7% Ashkenazi on the 23andme. I have unverified Cherokee reports on my family tree. But I am documented Patawomeck.Well my friend, the Ashkenazi in your case is most probably Cherokee ancestry. couple that with your 2% Amerind and you are likely 6% Cherokee. It’s all adding up now isn’t it?

[Richmondbread]

Well my friend, the Ashkenazi in your case is most probably Cherokee ancestry. couple that with your 2% Amerind and you are likely 6% Cherokee. It’s all adding up now isn’t it?

That's what I was saying . All these folks insisting i was a Jew, lol. My great great grandmother was from Little Rock,Arkansas, and her mother was listed as having one name only. The surname was Landrum which is heavily associated with the tribe.

[Herb3.]

It saying the mistake was to assume they were,the lost tribe of Israel. The report actually did say the genetic markers date back to pre-Roman period ancestors and that they used that as ammunition for the argument that the MENA been there since pre-Roman Times, so for thousands of years. The report said that it was impossible for colonial MENA to be widespread. But the ending sentence says it could be possible if the base population was MENA colonists and Amerind was gradually added over time.

But I agree with the report rather than the last sentence because in my opinion, the language gives it away. The Cherokee language, while although having MENA borrowed words, is an Amerind related language. That suggests the base population was Amerind and they added MENA over time as the borrowed words are fewer than the Amerind words which makes up,the base of the language.
Very interesting.

Yeah that makes sense.

[Isleño]

That's what I was saying . All these folks insisting i was a Jew, lol. My great great grandmother was from Little Rock,Arkansas, and her mother was listed as having one name only. The surname was Landrum which is heavily associated with the tribe.

There were Cherokee in Arkansas. I believe some are still there, but many moved to Oklahoma in the trail of tears.

Now that we’ve exposed the DNA of Cherokees that it’s not mostly Amerind, it would make more sense for whites and blacks claiming Cherokee but not getting much Amerind or any at all. Now, I caution this may not be correct for all. Some folks did indeed tell stories or maybe had an ancestor but it was too far back for their body to receive the ancestry. Or often, it could be a once thought of full blooded ancestor that was like 30% instead of 100% and the ancestry thinned out before the story did.

[Isleño]

Very interesting.

Yeah that makes sense.

Right. It doesn’t make much sense for the MENA to adopt a Native language if only few were absorbed here or there. It’s not logical.

[Herb3.]

There were Cherokee in Arkansas. I believe some are still there, but many moved to Oklahoma in the trail of tears.

Now that we’ve exposed the DNA of Cherokees that it’s not mostly Amerind, it would make more sense for whites and blacks claiming Cherokee but not getting much Amerind or any at all. Now, I caution this may not be correct for all. Some folks did indeed tell stories or maybe had an ancestor but it was too far back for their body to receive the ancestry. Or often, it could be a once thought of full blooded ancestor that was like 30% instead of 100% and the ancestry thinned out before the story did.

Makes sense.

I wonder if Elizabeth Warren would have any Ashkenazi DNA lol

[Richmondbread]

Makes sense.

I wonder if Elizabeth Warren would have any Ashkenazi DNA lol

I think she is like most people who probably have very distant NA heritage, but nothing significant. Even if I were to count my Cherokee ancestry, it's back 3 generations, and my Patawomeck is my 9th great grandmother.

[Isleño]

I think she is like most people who probably have very distant NA heritage, but nothing significant. Even if I were to count my Cherokee ancestry, it's back 3 generations, and my Patawomeck is my 9th great grandmother.
9th great grandmother? Oh, you ain’t getting none of that lol. It’s more likely to be Cherokee if it is indeed at all. I don’t know your family story concerning Cherokee ancestry.

[Herb3.]

Who are your cherokee ancestors? I'm a descendant of the Parker family of North Carolina.

[Profileid]

Right. It doesn’t make much sense for the MENA to adopt a Native language if only few were absorbed here or there. It’s not logical.

Nothing in this thread is logical

[Richmondbread]

9th great grandmother? Oh, you ain’t getting none of that lol. It’s more likely to be Cherokee if it is indeed at all. I don’t know your family story concerning Cherokee ancestry.

It is documented by local historians and on our family tree. I'm more certain of this one, than the Cherokee. My 9th Great Grandmother , Kaokee, the daughter of Pocahontas and Indian Warrior Kaokum, was a direct line going through one of my families of the Northern Neck of Virginia. They were both 1st cousins in marriage, so the Indian blood was stronger too.

[Richmondbread]

Who are your cherokee ancestors? I'm a descendant of the Parker family of North Carolina.

Landrums of Little Rock, Arkansas.

[Herb3.]

Great Grandma's marriage certificate details and census records. <3

There were some thoughts that "Chief" could have been a nickname, as it's a pretty weird name for a female, but research into Census records revealed that it was definitely her given name. She had it since a little girl. lol :)

Her brother's name was "Badger" - which happens to be a Native American spirit animal. For some reason, her maiden name changed from "Parker" to "Leach" once she moved to Harnett NC. But she was originally listed as a Parker in Census records, and lived among Parker family.

https://i.imgur.com/wL7mDfG.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/ymsFuE4.jpg?1

[Longbowman]

Looks like you're <3% Native American. Congrats I guess. Not too uncommon for blacks. I wouldn't bother identifying by it unless you're actually culturally Cherokee though, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Longbowman]

http://https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/cherokee-dna.htm

This link is literally rubbish, you can discard it. Written by someone with even less knowledge of genetics than you, my friend.

Edit: Reading the rest of the thread, just kek @ you for unironically believing that Cherokees (ie, pre-contact Cherokees) were Middle Eastern. You have got to be joking me. How can you know this fucking little about genetics after 4 years on these sites? Use your brain, man, try to discern what is and isn't a reliable source of information, fucking Jesus.

OP: your results aren't out of the ordinary for African Americans. You're mostly black, significantly european, and a tiny bit native, like most Aframs. Ignore most of what Isleno is saying, he barely knows more than you do.

[Herb3.]

This link is literally rubbish, you can discard it. Written by someone with even less knowledge of genetics than you, my friend.

Edit: Reading the rest of the thread, just kek @ you for unironically believing that Cherokees (ie, pre-contact Cherokees) were Middle Eastern. You have got to be joking me. How can you know this fucking little about genetics after 4 years on these sites? Use your brain, man, try to discern what is and isn't a reliable source of information, fucking Jesus.

OP: your results aren't out of the ordinary for African Americans. You're mostly black, significantly european, and a tiny bit native, like most Aframs. Ignore most of what Isleno is saying, he barely knows more than you do.

You're asking him to discard DNA research that was conducted at a Cherokee reservation. How do you know it's "rubbish"?

[Longbowman]

You're asking him to discard DNA research that was conducted at a Cherokee reservation. How do you know it's "rubbish"?

Because unlike both of you I have a functioning and in-depth understanding of population genetics triple digit IQ that allows me to dismiss any idiotic Mormon-tier rubbish that suggests ancient Middle Easterners sailed to America and blended seamlessly into the local population.

Do you really want me to go through everything wrong with that idiot link's conclusions? I'm happy to.


Well the Eastern coast of the U.S was often raided by the Barbary Pirates who were mostly of Berber North African stock

no it fucking wasn't

[Herb3.]

Because unlike both of you I have a functioning and in-depth understanding of population genetics triple digit IQ.

Do you really want me to go through everything wrong with that idiot link's conclusions? I'm happy to.



no it fucking wasn't

Those weren't conclusions he drew himself - they were results of DNA research conducted at an actual Cherokee reservation. DNA findings which happen to be in alignment with my ancestry - I have significant amounts of Middle Eastern DNA, as evidenced by GEDMatch.

Middle Eastern DNA isn't typically a significant part of African American DNA. Are you familiar with that? Or is your triple digit IQ failing you today?

[Longbowman]

Those weren't conclusions he drew himself - they were results of DNA research conducted at an actual Cherokee reservation. DNA findings which happen to be in alignment with my ancestry - I have significant amounts of Middle Eastern DNA, as evidenced by GEDMatch.

Middle Eastern DNA isn't typically a significant part of African American DNA. Are you familiar with that? Or is your triple digit IQ failing you today?

You have no/negligible Middle Eastern DNA. You get small amounts of Middle Eastern on GEDmatch calcs that also give relatively high Middle Eastern to Europeans.

Just because the peer reviewed study blog post was written on a reservation populated by pureblood Cherokee mostly triracials doesn't make it good. If anything it makes it biased.

But you know, if you were Middle Eastern, that would not be proof that Cherokees are/were. It would be proof that you are Middle Eastern. And the average smart dude would go 'huh, maybe I have Lebanese ancestry, Lebanese people came to the US in small numbers?' Only the idiot goes 'oh em gee, this means Cherokees were Iraqi!'

[Herb3.]

And while you're chatting about African-American DNA...

Is it typical for Asian DNA to overshadow European DNA for African-Americans?

https://i.imgur.com/9DnWLfj.jpg?1

[Herb3.]

You have no/negligible Middle Eastern DNA. You get Middle Eastern on GEDmatch calcs that also give relatively high Middle Eastern to Europeans.

Just because the peer reviewed study blog post was written on a reservation populated by pureblood Cherokee mostly triracials doesn't make it good. If anything it makes it biased.

And while you're chatting about African-American DNA...

Is it typical for Asian DNA to overshadow European DNA for African-Americans?

https://i.imgur.com/9DnWLfj.jpg?1

[Herb3.]

Answer me, Longbow. Would you call the above results "typical"of an Afram?

How about these?

https://i.imgur.com/zCJZCjU.jpg?1

[Longbowman]

And while you're chatting about African-American DNA...

Is it typical for Asian DNA to overshadow European DNA for African-Americans?

https://i.imgur.com/9DnWLfj.jpg?1

No, but it does happen, in some areas coolies married Aframs for example. In your case the 'Asian' is 'Central Asian' which is most likely a heavily European-admixed group like Kazakhs, Tajiks, or so on, with significant EEA type ancestry.

My question is: did you buy from Geneplaza, or upload your results directly to Geneplaza from another site? If so, which site?

[Longbowman]

Answer me, Longbow. Would you call the above results "typical"of an Afram?

How about these?

https://i.imgur.com/zCJZCjU.jpg?1

Yes mate, it's DNALand. They're not exactly brilliant. But still giving you 19% European is not unusual for an Afram, no. Don't get hooked on Mid Turkic, that doesn't mean proto-Ket, it means Kazakh or something similar, so 2.5% of that is like 1% EEA. By their metrics. Which are shit. Surely you used 23andme or FTDNA before you used these? What did they say?

[Herb3.]

No

That's all I needed to know.

You came in here saying that my family's results are typical of African Americans when they clearly are NOT.

I've seen plenty of Afram results and it's very rare that I see Ashkenazi being scored on DNA Land and it's rare that I see Asian DNA overshadowing European - regardless of which test was taken.

Here are results from my FATHER'S side of the family - which has no known Native/other connection.
I got results from that side of my family as well so I could compare.

This is what you'd call a typical Afram result.

African, significant European, maybe a smidge of Asian/other.

https://i.imgur.com/HpZCvKg.jpg?1

[Herb3.]

Yes mate, it's DNALand. They're not exactly brilliant. But still giving you 19% European is not unusual for an Afram, no. Don't get hooked on Mid Turkic, that doesn't mean proto-Ket, it means Kazakh or something similar, so 2.5% of that is like 1% EEA. By their metrics. Which are shit. Surely you used 23andme or FTDNA before you used these? What did they say?

https://i.imgur.com/Zuiiaig.jpg?1

[Longbowman]

That's all I needed to know.

You came in here saying that my family's results are typical of African Americans when they clearly are NOT.

I've seen plenty of Afram results and it's very rare that I see Ashkenazi being scored on DNA Land and it's rare that I see Asian DNA overshadowing European - regardless of which test was taken.

Here are results from my FATHER'S side of the family - which has no known Native/other connection.
I got results from that side of my family as well so I could compare.

This is what you'd call a typical Afram result.

African, significant European, maybe a smidge of Asian/other.

https://i.imgur.com/HpZCvKg.jpg?1

:rolleyes:

Look, dude, Aframs are not a heterogeneous population. Most score 75-20-5 black/white/native or that kind of range, but if one gets 60/30/10 that's not wildly unusual, even though it's not typical.

Either way what are you trying to prove? OK, let's say you were the only Afram ever to get Ashkenazi. This makes you Cherokee, how? no, it makes you Ashkenazi (if you were to trust the interpretation of DNALand at face value, which I wouldn't).

Just show us your original results from the mainstream company you tested with.

[Longbowman]

https://i.imgur.com/Zuiiaig.jpg?1

Cool! FTDNA is semi-reliable. Where's the other half of your results?

[Longbowman]

Alright I'm fuckin' bored. Here's my takedown of the idiot blog post you guys mistook for widely accepted peer-reviewed study:


As DNA tests became more sophisticated in the first decade of the 21st century, some people who thought they were of Cherokee descent begin getting reports that told them they carried Jewish, Semitic or Middle Eastern DNA, but made no mention of Native American DNA. The test subjects originally thought that they had been defrauded. They KNEW that they had Cherokee ancestors on tribal rolls!

Let's assume this actually happened: no, bucko, you thought you had Cherokee ancestors. Unless you can prove you are related to them by DNA, assume non-paternity if suddenly your results flash Ashkenazi, Norwegian, or whatever else.


In 2008 DNA Consultants, Inc. initiated comprehensive DNA testing of the Cherokees living on the Qualla Reservation in western North Carolina.

There's a link in the sentence - but it doesn't go to the study. Just another page on the site.


The Cherokees tested had high levels of DNA test markers associated with the Berbers, native Egyptians, Turks, Lebanese, Hebrews and Mesopotamians. Genetically, they are more Jewish than the typical American Jew of European ancestry. So-called “full-blooded” Cherokees had high levels of European DNA and a trace of Asiatic (Native American) DNA. 80 Some “card-carrying” Cherokees had almost no Asiatic DNA. The European DNA contained a much higher level of DNA test markers associated with the Iberian Peninsula that was typical of Caucasian Americans. The level of haplogroup T in the Cherokee (26.9%) approximated the percentage for Egypt (25%), one of the only lands where T attains a major position among the various mitochondrial lineages. The lab claims that their skin color and facial features are primarily Semitic in origin, not Native American.

The clue's in the fuckin' paragraph. They aren't pureblood Cherokee or even close to it. The entire result can be discarded.


Cherokee citizens with the highest percentage of non-Northern European DNA tend to live in remote mountain cabins and avoid contact with non-Cherokees. They would be far less likely to participate in a voluntary DNA sampling effort than those Cherokees with high levels of European DNA.

I don't buy this but the author is specifically saying that the majority of those tested were highly admixed.

TL;DR: a study that I can't find tested a lot of Richmondbread-type 0-5% Cherokee and found that they were 0-5% Cherokee so idiots like you guys think that the original Cherokee were European and Middle Eastern.

Retarded.

[Herb3.]

Cool! FTDNA is semi-reliable. Where's the other half of your results?

They picked up Northeast Asian markers ...Middle Eastern...Native American...even Southeast Asian and Oceanian.

The European ancestry is typical Northwest European.

https://i.imgur.com/iPNkpSh.jpg?1

[Longbowman]

They picked up Northeast Asian markers ...Middle Eastern...Native American...even Southeast Asian and Oceanian.

The European ancestry is typical Northwest European.

https://i.imgur.com/iPNkpSh.jpg?1

Cool, so this is you: slightly more African than the average Afram, quite a bit less Euro but still in the typical range, a small amount of Middle Eastern, and trace amounts from elsewhere including NE Asia which yes, in your case I would read as NatAm.

No great mystery. Why post the weird shitty GenePlaza results instead of the respected FTDNA ones? Because they look more interesting? that's because they're fockn shit mate.

[Herb3.]

Alright I'm fuckin' bored. Here's my takedown of the idiot blog post you guys mistook for widely accepted peer-reviewed study:



Let's assume this actually happened: no, bucko, you thought you had Cherokee ancestors. Unless you can prove you are related to them by DNA, assume non-paternity if suddenly your results flash Ashkenazi, Norwegian, or whatever else.



There's a link in the sentence - but it doesn't go to the study. Just another page on the site.



The clue's in the fuckin' paragraph. They aren't pureblood Cherokee or even close to it. The entire result can be discarded.



I don't buy this but the author is specifically saying that the majority of those tested were highly admixed.

TL;DR: a study that I can't find tested a lot of Richmondbread-type 0-5% Cherokee and found that they were 0-5% Cherokee so idiots like you guys think that the original Cherokee were European and Middle Eastern.

Retarded.

You lack comprehension skills.

NO ONE said the original Cherokee were Middle Eastern. The whole point of this thread was to say that Cherokee have now become WATERED DOWN in more recent times - particularly with Middle Eastern DNA.

You should really READ this thread before you come in with guns-a-blazing.

[Longbowman]

You lack comprehension skills.

NO ONE said the original Cherokee were Middle Eastern. The whole point of this thread was to say that Cherokee have now become WATERED DOWN in more recent times - particularly with Middle Eastern DNA.

You should really READ this thread before you come in with guns-a-blazing.

1) I'm glad we agree
2) Nope, Isleno said it outright several times, and the link he posted said it too.

[Herb3.]

1) I'm glad we agree
2) Nope, Isleno said it outright several times, and the link he posted said it too.

Isleno acknowledged that the ORIGINAL population of Cherokee were most likely real Natives. His theory is that the Middle Eastern DNA and some of its language eventually infiltrated the population - so much to the point where the Cherokee were no longer "Natives" but a predominately Middle Eastern population with some Asiatic/Native blood.

He does NOT believe that the Middle Easterners were here before the actual Natives. We had that conversation in here already.

And the findings from the reservation kinda in line with my family's results. Through the GEDMatch testing, etc. it's Middle Eastern first and then a small amount of actual Native DNA. Although the NA is clearly real, as evidenced by the Northeastern Asian markers, etc., it's still overshadowed by a more potent Middle Eastern component.

The "Cherokee" today are not the Cherokee that were here many thousands of years ago.
But they still seem to have a very unique genetic makeup - Middle Eastern and some NA , which still gives them a very unique and mysterious identity/background.

Does that make sense?

[Longbowman]

Isleno acknowledged that the ORIGINAL population of Cherokee were most likely real Natives. His theory is that the Middle Eastern DNA and some of its language eventually infiltrated the population - so much to the point where the Cherokee were no longer "Natives" but a predominately Middle Eastern population with some Asiatic/Native blood.

He does NOT believe that the Middle Easterners were here before the actual Natives. We had that conversation in here already.

And the findings from the reservation kinda in line with my family's results. Through the GEDMatch testing, etc. it's Middle Eastern first and then a small amount of actual Native DNA. Although the NA is clearly real, as evidenced by the Northeastern Asian markers, etc., it's still overshadowed by a more potent Middle Eastern component.

The "Cherokee" today are not the Cherokee that were here many thousands of years ago.
But they still seem to have a very unique genetic makeup - Middle Eastern and some NA , which still gives them a very unique and mysterious identity/background.

Does that make sense?

There's not much mysterious, like the Lumbee and Melungeon, beyond 'which specific groups did they fuck?' But again you're wrong, Isleno said it several times. And you seemed to agree with him.


The Cherokees were Middle Easterners it seems. This blows my mind lol

It seems they were either a settler population of Middle Easterners that arrived before European colonization or possibly from colonial settlers.


Yes, it seems Cherokees are not real Amerindians. They have a tiny few percent, but they are mainly Middle Eastern it seems. I think they could even possibly be either Melungeons, or possibly of some other origin maybe before European colonialism or from colonial areas where there were Middle Eastern and Turk settlers.

etc.

[Herb3.]

There's not much mysterious, like the Lumbee and Melungeon, beyond 'which specific groups did they fuck?' But again you're wrong, Isleno said it several times. And you seemed to agree with him.

etc.@ Longbow

Also, I forgot to mention the specific part of the Middle East FTDNA found. "Asia Minor" , or "Anatolia"

These studies that Isleno found on't seem to be very far off at all. Read the bolded text here from Isleno's post. And look at my DNA results.


When you put it like that, indeed he looks like a regular Afram. It was even noted in one article that some black American populations on the East Coast of the USA had more Amerind than the Cherokees of Qualla Reservation in North Carolina.

But the thing that I think you are overlooking here is that most of the Cherokees in North Carolina are not Amerindian, but are a mixed people...many of them having European admixture and other admixtures like Middle Eastern, Jewish and possible Armenian and Turk. There seems to be a strong sense among some geneticists that it could be Jewish. Others think Egyptian or Iberian or Anatolian. It’s just a mystery.

So that average looking Afram result, given his family history, could indeed be 8%-10% Cherokee.

https://i.imgur.com/e6FwXnj.jpg