Why doesn't Turkey attract the same global controversy and stigma Israel does?

[Tooting Carmen]

Turkey is at least the equal of Israel when it comes to human rights abuses, and is just as guilty of the things Israel is usually criticised for, such as an illegal occupation and mistreatment of minorities. In addition, it has the dubious distinction of jailing more journalists than any other country in the world - not even countries like North Korea and Saudi Arabia come close. Yet despite all this, it is Israel that is often said to be possibly the biggest threat to world peace, and has been the target of around one quarter of all UN resolutions. Many of the same people, particularly on the Left, who want Israel to be sanctioned, boycotted and isolated would have no qualms about visiting or doing business with Turkey. Why this glaring double standard?

[Longbowman]

(((because)))

[Tooting Carmen]

(((because)))

Because what?

[Longbowman]

Because what?

((())) <-- Jews.

[Joso]

Turkey does nothing wrong, don't ebelive in the jews, all you wrote in the OP is a lie. Turrks are very belled by having Erdogan as their president. Conservative and capitalists

[Joso]

((())) <-- Jews.

But yes, it is really because of jews

[Tooting Carmen]

Turkey does nothing rongs, don't ebelive in the jews, all you wrote in the OP is a lie. Turrks are very belled by having Erdogan as their president. Conservative and capitalists

So Turkey has never attacked Kurds or Armenians, and it didn't invade Northern Cyprus in 1974 (and still occupies it)?

[Joso]

So Turkey has never attacked Kurds or Armenians, and it didn't invade Northern Cyprus in 1974 (and still occupies it)?

The past is the past. Will you also atack Germans just because of Hitler?

[Tooting Carmen]

The past is the past. Will you also atack Germans just because of Hitler?

No, but we do have Holocaust Memorial Day each year to commemorate his victims. Besides, Erdogan is the current leader of Turkey, the country is becoming increasingly authoritarian, and there is no end in sight to the occupation of Northern Cyprus or of the mistreatment of Kurds.

[Visage pâle]

Israel is described by the left, as a western colonialist power supported by US.

[Tooting Carmen]

Israel is described by the left, as a western colonialist power supported by US.

Well up to a point it is. However, it cannot be denied that many of the things that Israel is often criticised for Turkey is also guilty of, but the contrast in terms of how the two countries are most of the time regarded internationally is quite striking.

[Visage pâle]

Well up to a point it is. However, it cannot be denied that many of the things that Israel is often criticised for Turkey is also guilty of, but the contrast in terms of how the two countries are most of the time regarded internationally is quite striking.

There are many muslims countries, and they don't like Israel. They have significative influence in ONU. Cyprus is supported by Greece and after ? Nodody care, it's crual but it's true.

[Skjaldemjøden]

The Islamic bloc in the UN and antisemitism.

[Marmara]

Because nobody gives a shit what's happening here.

Still, today Israel is far behind Turkey in terms of human rights abuses. You can definetly not compare Kurds with Palestinians. Palestinians are effectively getting purged from their homelands.

Also, the number of arrested joirnalists doesn't equate to freedom of press, one country can have no journalists locked up and still have terrible freedom of press, simply because no one ever dares to write against the government. In Turkey there is definetly freedom of press to a degree, can't even be compared to China and i don't know about Russia but i don't think Putin can be criticized so easily.

[Kukushka]

How much critizism does afg or any other islamic country recirve?

[Böri]

Turks are on their rightful lands. That's recognized.
For Jews it would be same but there are other involvements especially religious. The Christians and many Muslims don't think they have right to be there. Jews being/returning in Palestine is in the core happenings of almost all religions as form of prophecy or apocaliptic scenario. Nobody cares about Turkey or any country in the world as much as for Jews for this reason.

That's the problem when you are the Chosen Folk...

Beside that, Jews gun down Arabs for sports.
Israel isn't secular state, unlike Turkey. Israel is a Jewish Sharia state.
In Torah, you have violent parts where it tells ''enter the promised land of Canaan, kill their men, burn their crops'' etc.
So, Jews aren't driven by a pacifist secularism but by their religion which calls upon them to slaughter native Canaanites to gain some Halal points.

[EuropeanVlachSon]

Turkey is at least the equal of Israel when it comes to human rights abuses, and is just as guilty of the things Israel is usually criticised for, such as an illegal occupation and mistreatment of minorities. In addition, it has the dubious distinction of jailing more journalists than any other country in the world - not even countries like North Korea and Saudi Arabia come close. Yet despite all this, it is Israel that is often said to be possibly the biggest threat to world peace, and has been the target of around one quarter of all UN resolutions. Many of the same people, particularly on the Left, who want Israel to be sanctioned, boycotted and isolated would have no calms about visiting or doing business with Turkey. Why this glaring double standard?

Because 4chan propaganda is not logical at all.
Also, the popullists and right extremists from Europe and USA have more in common with Erdogan regime tha with Israel and jews.

[Kaspias]

About 50,000 person killed by PKK just because they want Turkey's lands. It is a conflict, of course other side will give response to attacks. What would you do if a ethnic group rebelled against you? Actual Kurds and Turks living together, without a problem. But they're not Kurd, they're terrorist.

For example;
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pkk-bombing-in-southeast-turkey-kills-mother-infant-135255
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2016_Ankara_bombing


Read;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish%E2%80%93Turkish_conflict_(1978%E2%80%93pre sent)


Also you said cyprus invasion, right?

Read;
Greek military coup of July 1974
Main article: 1974 Cypriot coup d'état
In the spring of 1974, Greek Cypriot intelligence discovered that EOKA-B was planning a coup against President Makarios[81] which was sponsored by the military junta of Athens.[82]

The junta had come to power in a military coup in 1967 which was condemned by the whole of Europe but had the support of the United States. In the autumn of 1973 after the 17 November student uprising there had been a further coup in Athens in which the original Greek junta had been replaced by one still more obscurantist headed by the Chief of Military Police, Brigadier Ioannides, though the actual head of state was General Phaedon Gizikis. Ioannides believed that Makarios was no longer a true supporter of enosis, and suspected him of being a communist sympathizer.[82] This led Ioannides to support the EOKA-B and National Guard as they tried to undermine Makarios.[83]

On 2 July 1974, Makarios wrote an open letter to President Gizikis complaining bluntly that 'cadres of the Greek military regime support and direct the activities of the 'EOKA-B' terrorist organization'.[citation needed] He also ordered that Greece remove some 600 Greek officers in the Cypriot National Guard from Cyprus.[84] The Greek Government's immediate reply was to order the go-ahead of the coup. On 15 July 1974 sections of the Cypriot National Guard, led by its Greek officers, overthrew the government.[82]

Makarios narrowly escaped death in the attack. He fled the presidential palace from its back door and went to Paphos, where the British managed to retrieve him by Westland Whirlwind[citation needed] helicopter in the afternoon of 16 July and flew him from Akrotiri to Malta in a Royal Air Force Armstrong Whitworth Argosy transport aircraft and from there to London by de Havilland Comet the next morning.[82][85]

In the meantime, Nikos Sampson was declared provisional president of the new government. Sampson was an ultra-nationalist, pro-Enosis combatant who was known to be fanatically anti-Turkish and had taken part in violence against Turkish civilians in earlier conflicts.[82][86]

The Sampson regime took over radio stations and declared that Makarios had been killed;[82] but Makarios, safe in London, was soon able to counteract these reports.[87] In the coup itself, 91 people were killed.[citation needed] The Turkish-Cypriots were not affected by the coup against Makarios; one of the reasons was that Ioannides did not want to provoke a Turkish reaction.[88][page needed]

In response to the coup, US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger sent Joseph Sisco to try to mediate the conflict.[82] Turkey issued a list of demands to Greece via a US negotiator. These demands included the immediate removal of Nikos Sampson, the withdrawal of 650 Greek officers from the Cypriot National Guard, the admission of Turkish troops to protect their population, equal rights for both populations, and access to the sea from the northern coast for Turkish Cypriots.[89] Turkey, led by Prime Minister Bülent Ecevit, then applied to Britain as a signatory of the Treaty of Guarantee to take action to return Cyprus to its neutral status. Britain declined this offer, and refused to let Turkey use its bases on Cyprus as part of the operation.[90]


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus


As you see, everything has a cause. Most of events that Turkey did, overrated in Europe Media.

[Skjaldemjøden]

The number of arrested joirnalists doesn't equate to freedom of press, one country can have no journalists locked up and still have terrible freedom of press, simply because no one ever dares to write against the government. In Turkey there is definetly freedom of press to a degree...


Israel isn't secular state, unlike Turkey. Israel is a Jewish Sharia state.

Should I make these my new signature?

[Skjaldemjøden]

...

[Tooting Carmen]

About 50,000 person killed by PKK just because they want Turkey's lands. It is a conflict, of course other side will give response to attacks. What would you do if a ethnic group rebelled against you? Actual Kurds and Turks living together, without a problem. But they're not Kurd, they're terrorist.

For example;
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pkk-bombing-in-southeast-turkey-kills-mother-infant-135255
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2016_Ankara_bombing


Read;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish%E2%80%93Turkish_conflict_(1978%E2%80%93pre sent)


Also you said cyprus invasion, right?

Read;
Greek military coup of July 1974
Main article: 1974 Cypriot coup d'état
In the spring of 1974, Greek Cypriot intelligence discovered that EOKA-B was planning a coup against President Makarios[81] which was sponsored by the military junta of Athens.[82]

The junta had come to power in a military coup in 1967 which was condemned by the whole of Europe but had the support of the United States. In the autumn of 1973 after the 17 November student uprising there had been a further coup in Athens in which the original Greek junta had been replaced by one still more obscurantist headed by the Chief of Military Police, Brigadier Ioannides, though the actual head of state was General Phaedon Gizikis. Ioannides believed that Makarios was no longer a true supporter of enosis, and suspected him of being a communist sympathizer.[82] This led Ioannides to support the EOKA-B and National Guard as they tried to undermine Makarios.[83]

On 2 July 1974, Makarios wrote an open letter to President Gizikis complaining bluntly that 'cadres of the Greek military regime support and direct the activities of the 'EOKA-B' terrorist organization'.[citation needed] He also ordered that Greece remove some 600 Greek officers in the Cypriot National Guard from Cyprus.[84] The Greek Government's immediate reply was to order the go-ahead of the coup. On 15 July 1974 sections of the Cypriot National Guard, led by its Greek officers, overthrew the government.[82]

Makarios narrowly escaped death in the attack. He fled the presidential palace from its back door and went to Paphos, where the British managed to retrieve him by Westland Whirlwind[citation needed] helicopter in the afternoon of 16 July and flew him from Akrotiri to Malta in a Royal Air Force Armstrong Whitworth Argosy transport aircraft and from there to London by de Havilland Comet the next morning.[82][85]

In the meantime, Nikos Sampson was declared provisional president of the new government. Sampson was an ultra-nationalist, pro-Enosis combatant who was known to be fanatically anti-Turkish and had taken part in violence against Turkish civilians in earlier conflicts.[82][86]

The Sampson regime took over radio stations and declared that Makarios had been killed;[82] but Makarios, safe in London, was soon able to counteract these reports.[87] In the coup itself, 91 people were killed.[citation needed] The Turkish-Cypriots were not affected by the coup against Makarios; one of the reasons was that Ioannides did not want to provoke a Turkish reaction.[88][page needed]

In response to the coup, US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger sent Joseph Sisco to try to mediate the conflict.[82] Turkey issued a list of demands to Greece via a US negotiator. These demands included the immediate removal of Nikos Sampson, the withdrawal of 650 Greek officers from the Cypriot National Guard, the admission of Turkish troops to protect their population, equal rights for both populations, and access to the sea from the northern coast for Turkish Cypriots.[89] Turkey, led by Prime Minister Bülent Ecevit, then applied to Britain as a signatory of the Treaty of Guarantee to take action to return Cyprus to its neutral status. Britain declined this offer, and refused to let Turkey use its bases on Cyprus as part of the operation.[90]


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus


As you see, everything has a cause. Most of events that Turkey did, overrated in Europe Media.

OK, but on that same basis Israel's occupation (at least initially) has been on the premise of self-defence against armed Palestinian groups and hostile nearby countries that tried to attack and destroy it in 1967.

[Tooting Carmen]

OK, but on that same basis Israel's occupation (at least initially) has been on the premise of self-defence against armed Palestinian groups and hostile nearby countries that tried to attack and destroy it in 1967.

[Tooting Carmen]

OK, but on that same basis Israel's occupation (at least initially) has been on the premise of self-defence against armed Palestinian groups and hostile nearby countries that tried to attack and destroy it in 1967.

[Marmara]

Should I make these my new signature?

...

[Marmara]

Should I make these my new signature?

Do it, everybody on this forum knows I oppose the government so you won't be making a fool out of me. You are totally missing my point.

[Thanas Django]

.

In the same post:

"Kurds want Turkish lands"

"Turkey occupies Cypriot lands"

:lol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Resistance_Organisation

Turkish Cypriots are the Kurds of Cyprus. The only difference is that they are protected like little birds in a little cage called TRNC created by Turkey.

[Sikeliot]

I think Turkey should be heavily criticized for its atrocities. I agree.

[İrle]

Turkey is treated like North Korea by Europe, The USA and most Middle Eastern countries. Our affiairs with Russia is like walking on ice. No one favours Turkey unlike Israel. What "criticization" are you talking about? Have you ever turn on your TV?

[Tooting Carmen]

Turkey is treated like North Korea by Europe, The USA and most Middle Eastern countries. Our affiairs with Russia is like walking on ice. No one favours Turkey unlike Israel. What "criticization" are you talking about? Have you ever turn on your TV?

The UN, human rights groups and the leftist intelligentsia mainly.

[Anglojew]

Ignorance and hypocrisy

[Bosniensis]

Modern Turkey is an ally of Israel, ruled by a Cyrpto Jew-Puppet Erdogan. Ottomans would never allow the existence of Israel. NEVER!

So whatever Turkey do.. there will be a total silence, cause Israel always supports Turkey.

Modern Anatolia is like Weimar Republic, completely enslaved by the Jews.

But what comes around goes around.... everything will change soon.

[Gold-Shekel]

TBH the controversy around Israel is probably to keep Arabs who live in the West busy instead of caring about the place they live in.

[Tooting Carmen]

Ignorance and hypocrisy

Quite. Further, would you not also agree that there was a brazen double standard during the Cold War in how South Africa was sanctioned and boycotted due to Apartheid, yet barely a word was said regarding Australia's mistreatment of Aborigines, which even Desmond Tutu himself said is in many ways even worse than Apartheid? (In fact, many of SA's repressive and racist laws were modelled on those in place in Australia, and the latter was one of the former's few constant allies until Gough Whitlam came along in the 70s).

[grecoroman]

Thats because israel is seen as a White western state by liberals. While turkey is seen as a muslim middle eastern state.

[Tooting Carmen]

Thats because israel is seen as a White western state by liberals. While turkey is seen as a muslim middle eastern state.

I am sure that is part of the explanation.

[Longbowman]

Modern Turkey is an ally of Israel, ruled by a Cyrpto Jew-Puppet Erdogan. Ottomans would never allow the existence of Israel. NEVER!

So whatever Turkey do.. there will be a total silence, cause Israel always supports Turkey.

Modern Anatolia is like Weimar Republic, completely enslaved by the Jews.

But what comes around goes around.... everything will change soon.

imagine unironically believing any of this

[Tooting Carmen]

imagine unironically believing any of this

Actually, for all of the public bickering by Netanyahu and Erdogan, Turkish-Israeli relations (at least economically) are quite strong. For example, Turkish Airlines is the foreign airline with the most flights to Israel, which is especially important for the latter to connect them to parts of the world that officially still do not 'recognise' it.

[Longbowman]

Actually, for all of the public bickering by Netanyahu and Erdogan, Turkish-Israeli relations (at least economically) are quite strong. For example, Turkish Airlines is the foreign airline with the most flights to Israel, which is especially important for the latter to connect them to parts of the world that officially still do not 'recognise' it.

that's not quite what he said, is it

[Teutone]

I guess Israel is way more important to the USA which pretty much is the indicator to other countries when it comes to which geopolitcal events are important or not. #

For example here in Germany the controversy is waaaaay more Turkish focused.

[Wadaad]

Let's be honest...turks are only oppressing fellow Muslims now (Kurds)...maybe if they were walling up Armenians and Greeks and putting checkpoints everywhere they went, there would be the equivalent outrage.

[Bobby Martnen]

Because Turkey is Moslem and liberal Westerners love Moslems for some bizarre reason.

[Joso]

No, but we do have Holocaust Memorial Day each year to commemorate his victims. Besides, Erdogan is the current leader of Turkey, the country is becoming increasingly authoritarian, and there is no end in sight to the occupation of Northern Cyprus or of the mistreatment of Kurds.

What have Erdogan to do with the Armenian genocide and the invasion of Cyprus? You are being racist, you are accusing an innocent man of these things just because he is Turkish

[Tooting Carmen]

What have Erdogan to do with the Armenian genocide and the invasion of Cyprus? You are being racist, you are accusing an innocent man of these things just because he is Turkish

He has nothing to do with the Armenian genocide of course (where did I say he does), but he is doing nothing about the occupation of North Cyprus. Besides, many journalists and academics in Turkey have been jailed for discussing the Armenian genocide, including under Erdogan's regime.

[İrle]

He has nothing to do with the Armenian genocide of course (where did I say he does), but he is doing nothing about the occupation of North Cyprus. Besides, many journalists and academics in Turkey have been jailed for discussing the Armenian genocide, including under Erdogan's regime.

No president will ever recognize Northern Cyprus as "occupied" since the invaison was fully rightous.

There are dozens of journalists in Turkey openly writing articles in favour of Armenian "genocide". No one is jailed for such petty reasons.

[Mingle]

Israel-Palestine is unique among all the global conflicts in the controversy it generates. There are dozens of similar conflicts in Africa and Asia almost no one knows about. Probably related to it being in the holy land.

[Joso]

He has nothing to do with the Armenian genocide of course (where did I say he does), but he is doing nothing about the occupation of North Cyprus. Besides, many journalists and academics in Turkey have been jailed for discussing the Armenian genocide, including under Erdogan's regime.

Cyprus deserved to be ocuppied. And These jailed guys were probably Armenian spyes, so it is justified.

[Joso]

No president will ever recognize Northern Cyprus as "occupied" since the invaison was fully rightous.

There are dozens of journalists in Turkey openly writing articles in favour of Armenian "genocide". No one is jailed for such petty reasons.

He is just talking these things because of racism and islamophobia, he have no proof against your good president

[Bobby Martnen]

Because Liberals love Moslems more than they love Jews or Christians.

[Tooting Carmen]

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-occupier-murderer-the-hypocritical-turkey-israel-war-of-words-1.6093955

[wvwvw]

Cyprus deserved to be ocuppied. And These jailed guys were probably Armenian spyes, so it is justified.

Really moron? You too deserve to be expelled from your home and be raped for your exceptionally low iq.

[wvwvw]

Turkey is at least the equal of Israel when it comes to human rights abuses, and is just as guilty of the things Israel is usually criticised for, such as an illegal occupation and mistreatment of minorities. In addition, it has the dubious distinction of jailing more journalists than any other country in the world - not even countries like North Korea and Saudi Arabia come close. Yet despite all this, it is Israel that is often said to be possibly the biggest threat to world peace, and has been the target of around one quarter of all UN resolutions. Many of the same people, particularly on the Left, who want Israel to be sanctioned, boycotted and isolated would have no qualms about visiting or doing business with Turkey. Why this glaring double standard?

There are a few hundred UN resolutions against Turkey. Turkey is in breach of over 100 UN Resolutions pertaining to its illegal occupation and genocide in Cyprus, more than any other state. Turkey has used chemical weapons against its own people including Kurdishcivilians and against the civilian population of Cyprus. It has all the characteristics of a rogue state.

It is a bit comical when Turkey gives morality lectures to Israel considering its own murderous tract record

Netanyahu: Erdogan shouldn’t preach morality to Israel

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu slammed Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s attack against Jews, stating that he was hardly in any position to be preaching morality.

“Erdogan – the occupier of northern Cyprus, whose army massacres women and children in Kurdish villages, inside and outside Turkey should not preach to Israel,” Netanyahu said.

Netanyahu spoke out after Erdogan publicly stated, that Jews in Israel kick people when they lie on the floor, adding that Jews kick not only men but also women and children.

[Tooting Carmen]

The disturbing similarities between Netanyahu and Erdogan (and their respective nations more generally): https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-netanyahu-and-erdogan-agree-their-political-foes-are-traitors-and-terrorists-1.7062451

[Westbrook]

Turkey has a lot more allies and better diplomatic relations with the world (somehow)

Anti-Turk sentiment would be "racist" so there's no political movement dedicated to opposing them in the west

[Catarinense1998]

Erdogan is just a sionist puppet working hidely to help Israel. I have never falling in his trick game. Erdogan's plan:

1 part: Erdogan wants to turn Turkey into a new islamic state. This is happening right now with syrians and afghans. Erdogan is buying support from islamic people.

2 Part: Erdogan will create a new caliphate. He will invade each ex ottoman territory.

3 Part: OTAN will fight Erdogan's imperialism. The Empire will fall, and Netanyahu will colonize Anatolia with jews.

That's the plan.

[sean]

Why doesn't Turkey attract the same global controversy and stigma Israel does? Turkey is at least the equal of Israel when it comes to human rights abuses, and is just as guilty of the things Israel is usually criticised for, such as an illegal occupation and mistreatment of minorities. In addition, it has the dubious distinction of jailing more journalists than any other country in the world - not even countries like North Korea and Saudi Arabia come close. Yet despite all this, it is Israel that is often said to be possibly the biggest threat to world peace, and has been the target of around one quarter of all UN resolutions.

Turkey gets away with things because of their strategic position. Turkey is a strategic asset for NATO and for stationing nukes. Without that Turkey is irrelevant on the world stage.

If Turkey wasn't aligned at all with the West, then Russia and Iran would have long instigated a Kurdish revolt in Turkey.

However, American military assets are quietly being removed from Turkey, and Turkey is cooperating less and less with American foreign policy priorities in the region.

If the US decided to no longer be Europe's defacto army, Turkey, if in the EU, would very quickly become it's muscle. It's already the second largest force in NATO. Also, the moment China gets the actual Silk road going with Turkey, even Russia will be thrown away like a cheap whore.


Many of the same people, particularly on the Left, who want Israel to be sanctioned, boycotted and isolated would have no qualms about visiting or doing business with Turkey. Why this glaring double standard?

Well, if we left the Muslims and Africans to their own bidding they would genocide each other without any qualms. Muslim countries simply don't have the right culture for democracy to work. Atatürk literally put people in jail for wearing traditional Turkish cap and banned the Kurdish language, yet he is somehow the hero of “liberals” who talk about muh freedoms.

The Left won't protest so much because they know Islam has something to do with brown skin. Liberals in Europe have surrendered leadership to their women and assigned victim status to their brown pets. The best way to handle a volatile and irrational group such as this is to let them self destruct.

Even Turks in Germany have the German media to suck their dick and tell them their failure to contribute to society is the German society's fault. Turks in Germany vote like negroes in America and every party will attempt to pander to them in order to win their massive block vote.

A lot of western liberals say "racists just need to travel the world and experience other cultures", but they themselves fall victim to every little scam and swindle by brown and black beings crossing their path.

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1494650269450.png
https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1543091598778.jpg

As a matter of fact, a lot of western liberals (especially Owen Jones-reading Guardianistas) are also complaining non-stop about how Turkey is turning into a complete fascist dictatorship. And how the poor Kurds are treated.

They claim Kurds are democratic but there's substantial evidence of political repression and Marxist authoritarianism in the areas they control in the Middle East. They claim they're pro-woman but the senior leadership preys on young Kurdish women and there's a ton of sexual harassment/assault/rape that's simmering away there. They claim they promote multi-ethnic societies but there have been significant reports of Kurdish forces burning down villages and forcibly displacing other ethnic groups. And all this is without going into the forced conscriptions and use of child soldiers.

Liberals don't have deep beliefs that would withstand any peer criticism.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Its a little complicated, but the fact that israel is more succesfull as well as the fact that it is inhabited by Jews, who have the negative stigma of "ruling the world", certainly plays a role.

Israel is extremely influential for its size, Turkey the opposite, for western world standards, but has gained a lot of reputation within the Islamic world during the last decades

[jfgh676]

Some EU Shills here will be mad. But truth of the matter erdogan put his foot on the ground when it comes to turkey matters. As for israel,just watch them blatantly jailing children,videos of them killing child,pregnant women and medical staff alike,really no honest comparison here to a few political detainees