The Source of Runic Power

[Psychonaut]

Inspired by this thread... (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2553)

For those of you who deal with them, from where do you think the power of the Runes derives? Do you view the glyphs themselves having intrinsic meaning and power? Are they imbued with power by the force of will and belief exerted by the magician using them? Have they gradually accumulated power in the Germanic Folk-soul through centuries of use?

Having dealt with half a dozen similar symbol sets in a magical context in the past, I'm not really convinced that any of them have any intrinsic meaning or power. While I certainly have experienced distinct "vibes" when working with different Runes, none of my encounters were such that I could be sure it wasn't meaning I was bequeathing onto them. It very much seems to me that the techniques of most of the modern Runesters (especially those after Thorsson) are designed to imprint the Runes upon the consciousness of the magician. While this technique has shown itself to be effective, to a degree, it doesn't quite jibe with the way the Hanged God acquired the Runes at all. The experience in the Hávamál sounds more like the way Austin Osman Spare "received" his magical alphabet them do the methods of the Runegild. So, in short, I'm of the opinion that all magic (Runes included) most likely has its source in the psyche (singular or collective) of man. As if you couldn't guess that from my username (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut). ;)

What are your thoughts?

[Fortis in Arduis]

I agree because surely the runes are just on the periphery, the details?

One can attach however much importance one wants to a particular mantra or sound but the power come mostly from the fact that it is repeated and becomes a meditation, leading eventually to inner silence.

I would have thought that runes would take us in the same direction.

Godly knowledge has to be abstracted so that people can relate their experiences to one another, so... we have different religions...

[Lyfing]

Good questions Psychonaut ( and answers too )..


For those of you who deal with them, from where do you think the power of the Runes derives?

The only two things I’ve ever messed with are the Runes and the Sinister Tarot. I think their power comes from what Jung called Synchronicity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity)..


It was a principle that Jung felt gave conclusive evidence for his concepts of*archetypes*and the*collective unconscious,[2]*in that it was descriptive of a governing dynamic that underlies the whole of human experience and history—social, emotional, psychological, and spiritual. Events that happen which appear at first to be coincidence but are later found to be causally related are termed as "incoincident".



Do you view the glyphs themselves having intrinsic meaning and power?

Not really. They are special though. And the stories that go with them do..with their achetypical meanings and all.


Are they imbued with power by the force of will and belief exerted by the magician using them?

Pretty much, but there is still the synchronous aspect…and that seems beyond will and belief..


Have they gradually accumulated power in the Germanic Folk-soul through centuries of use?

Most likely, with Rubert Sheldrake’s notions of morphogenetic fields (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphogenetic_field_(Rupert_Sheldrake)) and all..

Later,
-Lyfing

[Baron Samedi]

I think it's safe to say that we derive what each of the Futhark means for our own self, and how we might best use it.

Makes it a rather personal system of magic, if you ask me.

However, I have some belief in the "cosmic gathering" of energies from our folk on the rune rows as well. If anything, it has helped give it an identity for easier "cracking" purposes.

[SuuT]

For those of you who deal with them, from where do you think the power of the Runes derives?

In my experience (what else does one have;)?), their power is not so much derivative as it is intrinsic.


[...] Are they imbued with power by the force of will and belief exerted by the magician using them?

There is certainly a mysterious symbiosis at work whilst casting lots... For those willing to (at least) take it under consideration, there is an inapplicable 'either/or' manner of thinking that separates the modern goði/gyðja from full 'actuation' of the union of (what most would today call) "random-ness", and an unveiling (not to be confused with recieved knowledge from some central omniscience: this is not a semantic issue; and we shall leave it - such things - to the salty sheep of the desert god).


Have they gradually accumulated power in the Germanic Folk-soul through centuries of use?

This may depend on perspective and one's path. To speak generally, however, and given that the relationship of the lot (casted 'result') and the un-coverer of the secrets that he/she seeks is a meditative and willful symbiotic 'usefullness' from both sides (the runa, and he/she who casts), both can be said to be true.

For example (and let me, again, state that this is my opinion: those that value it, will - some will not): if one enters a lottery with the questions proposed in this thread, the liklihood of reception is dim.

In a phrase, Loki resides in the runa just as much as anyone else.


Having dealt with half a dozen similar symbol sets in a magical context in the past, I'm not really convinced that any of them have any intrinsic meaning or power.

Does a blade that pierces the heart of another man have an intirinsic power...? Sure it does! - It has the power to kill. Although he who wields the power is a symbiotic aspect of the dynamic.


While I certainly have experienced distinct "vibes" when working with different Runes, none of my encounters were such that I could be sure it wasn't meaning I was bequeathing onto them.

The runa are not a dictionary, though: never, ever, ever, ever expect to 'read' the cast as one would read a, for example, Philosophy text. Man attributes dichotemy where one need not be.


It very much seems to me that the techniques of most of the modern Runesters [...]

This answers itself, though, nauhtilist...does it not? Allow me to immediately add that I have the utmost respect for the Modern Wanderer - I am one, myself, in the technical sense. However, we all possess our 'superiors' in such matters (and, yes, I know, this smacks of arrogance in so far as it rubs our Modernity the wrong way...{stop, all ye, at these elipses for a moment})...


I see a certain... beauty in the union of the analytical mind and the πνευμα, spiritus, sála - Breath of Life, that Modern Man tends to make distintions of, when in-applicable realitive to what we seek in the Runa. Assuming one seeks clues - and not answers.


Again, what I say will rub many the wrong way - they shall seek "proof"; not only of what I know, but that which I understand...Good, then! I find this Perfect.


[...] it doesn't quite jibe with the way the Hanged God acquired the Runes at all.

Would you say that they were, then 'received'; OR, unveiled in an *almost* unthinkable aspect of Er Blót...?

Incidentally, there is a point at which even the finest minds:), dis-continue post-Christian influx - reject the very notion, in fact - and find 'answers' in themselves.


Your Blood cannot lie; it is innocent, in the extreme:


Trust not these false sayers of sooth, whom abdicate the Blood, the fulka, and their own intrinsic awareness of the substrate of every True Being, "Ich bin mit meinem Dasein zufrieden", for they lead back to that Krist; that alien; that savior of a singular pole of existez - that of Love, which may yet be the daeth of us all (My Father, my Mentor - many moons ago ):


[...] As if you couldn't guess that from my username (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut). ;)

What are your thoughts?


Sail on. :)



P.s. To brother Hellasson,

What have 'safe assumptions' to do with and/or for the 'conquerer'?

[SuuT]

I agree because surely the runes are just on the periphery, the details?

Certainly. For one whose 'religion' is Hatha Yoga.


One can attach however much importance one wants to a particular mantra or sound...

A.K.A. Rationalisation.


...but the power come(s) mostly from the fact that it is repeated and becomes a meditation, leading eventually to inner silence.

Repetitive action/re-action makes for pliable sheep. Not a Man, as he is, in himself (unless that man suffers, of course, from Natural Law).


I would have thought that runes would take us in the same direction.

As is À Propos for something only 'spun in the brain', and not put to practice.


Godly knowledge has to be abstracted so that people can relate their experiences to one another, so... we have different religions...


If only "Godly knowledge" were a Rubick's cube...

[Psychonaut]

In my experience (what else does one have;)?)

A man after my own heart.


There is certainly a mysterious symbiosis at work whilst casting lots...

Yes...although I tend to forget that most people associate the Runes with casting lots, so most of my earlier comments were geared towards other types of Runic "magic" (how I'm beginning to loathe that word).


For those willing to (at least) take it under consideration, there is an inapplicable 'either/or' manner of thinking that separates the modern goði/gyðja from full 'actuation' of the union of (what most would today call) "random-ness", and an unveiling

I can certainly accept this as being at least somewhat similar to my observations, yet it brings up a question. Accepting that something is unveiled, are you proposing that this something is an inherent property of the stave-shape itself, or that the stave shapes have been gifted their properties (or something else entirely)?


For example (and let me, again, state that this is my opinion: those that value it, will - some will not): if one enters a lottery with the questions proposed in this thread, the liklihood of reception is dim.

I agree whole heartedly. It's been my experience that for any magic to work, one must, at the time of performance, believe in it. Whether or not this particular belief is "objectively" warranted at all is of no consequence during the act itself. Most magical models seems to me to be varieties of Vaihinger's "useful fictions" in which James might tell us we must have the "will to believe in", temporarily at least.


Does a blade that pierces the heart of another man have an intirinsic power...? Sure it does! - It has the power to kill. Although he who wields the power is a symbiotic aspect of the dynamic.

Yes...but is that really a comparable metaphor? In the hands of an ape a spear retains its power, but I doubt the Runes would.


Would you say that they were, then 'received'; OR, unveiled in an *almost* unthinkable aspect of Er Blót...?

Yes, precisely. Although the only contemporary example of strictly Runic systems being unveiled in this manner would be von List's. Most of the other fellows who've reported undergoing this experience came out the other side with a different, but comparable, symbol set.


Sail on. :)

:thumb001:

[Baron Samedi]

Complex conversation is complex!

[Liffrea]

I’ve only recently started to seriously engage with the runes.

It is difficult for me to define my approach to them as I’m not certain yet of my own stance on many questions but I’m drawn to the possibility that some insight into the human mind may be acquired and some basis for connection with the God force, which I believe firmly lies within regardless of the question of the nature of deity.

Beyond this I don’t have much else to say.

[Tuisto]

Yes...but is that really a comparable metaphor? In the hands of an ape a spear retains its power, but I doubt the Runes would.

The spear retains its intrinsic power, but can it truly be utilized by the Ape? A spear, like the runes, must be known intimately by a creature of sufficient power to realize its most far-reaching potential.

My take on the runes is that there is definite intrinsic power. It may be your will tapping into that power, but it is the runes which have the intrinsic ability to transmute that willpower, for those understanding them. The concept of a symbiotic relationship does seem the most fitting.

[Cato]

Inspired by this thread... (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2553)

For those of you who deal with them, from where do you think the power of the Runes derives? Do you view the glyphs themselves having intrinsic meaning and power? Are they imbued with power by the force of will and belief exerted by the magician using them? Have they gradually accumulated power in the Germanic Folk-soul through centuries of use?

Having dealt with half a dozen similar symbol sets in a magical context in the past, I'm not really convinced that any of them have any intrinsic meaning or power. While I certainly have experienced distinct "vibes" when working with different Runes, none of my encounters were such that I could be sure it wasn't meaning I was bequeathing onto them. It very much seems to me that the techniques of most of the modern Runesters (especially those after Thorsson) are designed to imprint the Runes upon the consciousness of the magician. While this technique has shown itself to be effective, to a degree, it doesn't quite jibe with the way the Hanged God acquired the Runes at all. The experience in the Hávamál sounds more like the way Austin Osman Spare "received" his magical alphabet them do the methods of the Runegild. So, in short, I'm of the opinion that all magic (Runes included) most likely has its source in the psyche (singular or collective) of man. As if you couldn't guess that from my username (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut). ;)

What are your thoughts?

Did Hoarbeard suffer on the World Tree for his own sake or for our own?

[Psychonaut]

My take on the runes is that there is definite intrinsic power.

Intrinsic how? As in, the particular stave shapes have, since before humankind existed, held these particular meanings/powers/energies? Or as in, after a certain point the particular stave shapes have held these particular meanings/powers/energies? If the latter, what precipitated it? We know that the shapes themselves come to us from Southern Europe, where they had mere alphabetic, non-magical, usage and properties. Whence comes the current usage?


Did Hoarbeard suffer on the World Tree for his own sake or for our own?

Well...


geiri vndaþr oc gefinn Oðni,
sialfr sialfom mer,

wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin,
myself to myself,

...is pretty clear, no?

However, I don't understand what this question has to do with the portion of my OP that you bolded. Could you expand the query?

[Cato]

It was more of a rhetorical question, really. The power of the runes comes from Odin's own suffering, which is the source of his victory. The gifting of the runes to mankind is a beneficial by-product of Odin's own agony on the tree, and I've never really considered myself the sort of person who has any interest in the runes- otherwise I'll be said to be playing at being a runecaster or would-be sorcerer.

[Saturni]

Each rune is, itself, a mystery(runa). Ultimately, they all lead back to the source, the Mystery behind all Mysteries, that Odin confronted during the Yggdrasil Ritual.

[Wulfhere]

The source of power of the runes is actually the shape of the runes themselves, because this allows the magical current to be channelled in a myriad of different ways, for purposes specific to each rune or bindrune.