FST distances between Balto-Slavs

[Run-time]

Russia is a poor country that is only relevant because of its military/nukes. Russians are culturally inferior to the Germans & Latins
50% of people on this forum(especially the Serbs and Bulgarians) want to be Russian or feel inferiority complex in front of the Russian. You joined their ranks. Congratulations! What is your nationality?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Balts and Slavs were once one. They are difficult to differentiate.

And who confirmed it?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Both have R1a, but Balts have N1c and Slavs I2a. And most certanly proto-Slavs were more southern shifted than proto-Balts.

I don't believe that term proto-Balt exist. At least, according to linguistics and latest researches, proto-Baltic would mean the same thing as proto-Balto Slavic.

It means that after the collapse of Balto-Slavic hypothetical unity, the Slavs left, and those who stays are Balts. Or you can, of course, call them proto-Balts, but it would mean that both (Eastern and western Balts) are proto-Balts.

[Run-time]

And who confirmed it?
The one who can not confirm the opposite.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Versions of the origin of barrows: 1. Slavic (aboriginal), 2. Baltic, 3. Finnish. I'm fine with any version of these three. The Northern Russians are a combination of these three ethnic groups. The very name Krivichi Baltic and some scientists see in them Balts.

It's not clear from where come name Krivichi. I believe that this is exaggerated about Baltic names for Eastern Slavic tribes.

"Many historians suggest that the name of the tribe probably stems from that of their legendary forefather Kriv, possibly a kniaz or a voivode. According to Max Vasmer, this sobriquet was derived from the Slavic adjective krivoy ("crooked/twisted") due to some possible birth defect. Jan Stankievič believed it was derived from the adjective "kroŭ", "kryvi" ("blood"), hence, "kryvič" would mean "blood relationship"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krivichs#Etymology

Basic wikipedia

[Pribislav]

50% of people on this forum(especially the Serbs and Bulgarians) want to be Russian or feel inferiority complex in front of the Russian. You joined their ranks. Congratulations! What is your nationality?

I don't know for Bulgarians. Serbs don't want to be Russians.
Russians are OK people, but we don't want to be Russians. You confuse political alliances from the past with national identity. Croatians are allies of Austrians/Germans for centuries, but they don't want to Germanic. Only tiny minority of Croatians claim that they have Gothic origin.

[pelikarski]

50% of people on this forum(especially the Serbs and Bulgarians) want to be Russian or feel inferiority complex in front of the Russian. You joined their ranks. Congratulations! What is your nationality?

:rolleyes:

[Run-time]

I don't know for Bulgarians. Serbs don't want to be Russians.
Russians are OK people, but we don't want to be Russians. You confuse political alliances from the past with national identity. Croatians are allies of Austrians/Germans for centuries, but they don't want to Germanic. Only tiny minority of Croatians claim that they have Gothic origin.
The desire to be Russian is a subconscious game. Everyone wants to be something better. And pathological interest in the Russian, envy and fear - it all says about the desire to be the one to whom you are interested. The Croats defeated the Avars, they have no need to be someone in addition to Croats. Serbs did not win, only lost the whole story...they are jealous of more successful people.

[Jana]

To be honest most Croats don't aware they are Slavic and I don't represent their views well. I also did not think we are. Than I made DNA test and I was suprised how much Slavic I am.
It woke my interest. And now I am very proud of our Slavic roots.

I really tough we are Goths, and/or Balkanic Illyrians, but that is not the truth.

And there is no need to insult other ethnicites in this thread. Run-time you shoud know Serbs are very proud about their Slavic origin. For Bulgarians I do not know.

[Jana]

I tough only Baltid looking people in Croatia are Slavic. Because that is how my father teached me. It is average stereotype here. So you can see, in which darkness about their roots live many Southern Slavs.

I want to change that stupid perception.

[Pribislav]

The desire to be Russian is a subconscious game. Everyone wants to be something better. And pathological interest in the Russian, envy and fear - it all says about the desire to be the one to whom you are interested. The Croats defeated the Avars, they have no need to be someone in addition to Croats. Serbs did not win, only lost the whole story...they are jealous of more successful people.

Krivich, you are big fool...
Croatian victory to Avars is a myth. Proto-Croatians were probably Avars, how they can win themselves? Eventualy White Ogurs as Turkish historian Osman Karatay claim.
Avars were defeated by Frankish empire of Charlemagne.
Serbian was bigger in the middle age than any Croatian state in history. Even today Serbia is bigger than Croatia.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/231/911/db9.png

[Wrong]

To be honest most Croats don't aware they are Slavic and I don't represent their views well. I also did not think we are. Than I made DNA test and I was suprised how much Slavic I am.
It woke my interest. And now I am very proud of our Slavic roots.

I really tough we are Goths, and/or Balkanic Illyrians, but that is not the truth.

And there is no need to insult other ethnicites in this thread. Run-time you shoud know Serbs are very proud about their Slavic origin. For Bulgarians I do not know.
Bulgarians are mostly natives with slight Slavic input varying through regions, confused with a Turkic name according to most of them.

[Jana]

Stop trolling, you damn fool. Croatian victory over Avars is wrtitten in DAI, document you mastrubate over because it gives southern Dalmatia to Serbs.


I see kindness towards Serbs is a big mistake. You are full of jelaousy because there is much more written and archeological information about White Croatia, than White Serbia.

[Jana]

Bulgarians are mostly natives with slight Slavic input varying through regions, confused with a Turkic name according to most of them.

Slavic input in Bulgarians is very far from slight:

Genetic admixture analyses based on autosomal data of 94 modern populations, estimate that the genes of the Bulgarians have two sources and a main admixture event between 1000 and 1600 YBP, i.e. 46-59% Belorussian-like or Polish-like admixture, and 41-54% Cypriot-like. The genes that are provisionally or indicatively to be associated with the Slavic donor group constitute about 40% of the total

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Bulgarians

[Wrong]

Slavic input in Bulgarians is very far from slight:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Bulgarians
Some Bulgarians plot very close to Albanians, just slightly more eastwards, like the FYROM-"Slavs". A number of them are Slavic by haplotype origin, but already mixed for a long time.

Seen a good number of Albanians plot north-west of these two "Slavic" nations.

[Run-time]

Krivich, you are big fool...
Croatian victory to Avars is a myth. Proto-Croatians were probably Avars, how they can win themselves? Eventualy White Ogurs as Turkish historian Osman Karatay claim.
Avars were defeated by Frankish empire of Charlemagne.
Serbian was bigger in the middle age than any Croatian state in history. Even today Serbia is bigger than Croatia.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/231/911/db9.png
I do not know the history of Croatia, but I tend to believe Yana. She is a Croatian and must know. I'm not inclined to believe an envious Serb. Are the Croatians Avars? And the Russian Mongols? This is your Serbian envious invention.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Bulgarians are mostly natives with slight Slavic input varying through regions, confused with a Turkic name according to most of them.

I agree.

[Moje ime]

Krivich, you are big fool...


I like this xD

[Pribislav]

Stop trolling, you damn fool. Croatian victory over Avars is wrtitten in DAI, document you mastrubate over because it gives southern Dalmatia to Serbs.


I see kindness towards Serbs is a big mistake. You are full of jelaousy because there is much more written and archeological information about White Croatia, than Whie Serbia

Avar khaganate was destroyed by Franks, and of story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_Khaganate#Collapse

Tell me, are Tuga, Vuga, Muhlo, Kluk, Lovel and Kosen Slavic names?
These are names of members of Croatian ruling family from Pannonia in 7th century. To me these name sounds non-Slavic.

[Run-time]

Serbia remains Serbia thanks to several hundred thousands of dead Russians.

[Wrong]

Avar khaganate was destroyed by Franks, and of story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_Khaganate#Collapse

Tell me, are Tuga, Vuga, Muhlo, Kluk, Lovel and Kosen are slavic names?
These are names of members of Croatian ruling family from Pannonia in 7th century. To me these name sounds non-Slavic.
This is interesting. I thought it was the Croats who destroyed the Avars.

Charlemagne stomped everything and people took the opportunity to ally with him in order to vanquish their enemies.

[Jana]

Some Bulgarians plot very close to Albanians, just slightly more eastwards, like the FYROM-"Slavs". A number of them are Slavic by haplotype origin, but already mixed for a long time.

Seen a good number of Albanians plot north-west of these two "Slavic" nations.

Slavic genes are present even among Albanians, especially those from Montenegro. As well as some Goth ancestry from barbarian ages :)

[Moje ime]

Serbia remains Serbia thanks to several hundred thousands of dead Russians.

When exactly they died? Can you be more precise?

[Wrong]

Slavic genes are present even among Albanians, especially those from Montenegro. As well as some Goth ancestry from barbarian ages :)
Perhaps maternally in north. Patrilineally in south.

Still minority %.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I tough only Baltid looking people in Croatia are Slavic. Because that is how my father teached me. It is average stereotype here. So you can see, in which darkness about their roots live many Southern Slavs.

I want to change that stupid perception.

Baltid is just a phenotype, and i don't believe that always phenotype reflects the origin. According to Eastern Euro members from Balto-Slavica anthro forum, i am western looking, although my autosomal DNA is from Poland-Ukraine.

[Jana]

Avar khaganate was destroyed by Franks, and of story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avar_Khaganate#Collapse

Tell me, are Tuga, Vuga, Muhlo, Kluk, Lovel and Kosen Slavic names?
These are names of members of Croatian ruling family from Pannonia in 7th century. To me these name sounds non-Slavic.

I never claimed we destroy the Khaganate, just that we defeated Avars that were in Dalmatia.

These names sound weird, but they are these:
Kloukas and Lobelos and Kosentzis and Mouchlo and Chrobatos, and two sisters, Touga and Bouga

Some historians connect Buga to Bug river in Ukraine, but it is just a hypotesis.

[Pribislav]

Serbia remains Serbia thanks to several hundred thousands of dead Russians.

No Krivich.
Russian imperialistic geopolitical goals in 19th and early 20th century in the Balkans and Caucasus brought dead to millions of Russians.
Russians were obsessed with Constantinople for many centuries. They wanted to took Istanbul (Constantinople) because of restauration of Orthodox Byzantine.

[pelikarski]

Bulgarians are mostly natives with slight Slavic input varying through regions, confused with a Turkic name according to most of them.

We take pride in our ancestors, they created several states including modern day Bulgaria. Also they consisted of several tribes, anthropologically they were Indo-european, not Mongol.
Many Roman sources used the term Bulgars as synonym of Huns as they were part of the Hunnic confederation tribes

[Run-time]

When exactly they died? Can you be more precise?
The main-the Turkish war about 15 thousand dead. The first world war. Serbia started a war and dragged Russia there - several hundred thousand dead Russian soldiers. World war II-the liberation of Serbia, also thousands of dead.

[Kelmendasi]

Perhaps maternally in north. Patrilineally in south.

Still minority %.
In Ghegs it was really only the ones from Malesi(Montenegro part usually) that had closer relations with Montenegro and some intermarriages with Montenegrin clans. The other regions of the north such as Dukagjini, Puka, Mirdita etc didn't really have contact with the Montenegrins and so I highly doubt they intermarried. Although it is true though that when the Malsors intermarried with Montenegrins, it was usually them taking Montenegrin wives. As you said Slavic input in Albanians is minimal in terms of genetics

[Pribislav]

I never claimed we destroy the Khaganate, just that we defeated Avars that were in Dalmatia.

These names sound weird, but they are these:

Some historians connect Buga to Bug river in Ukraine, but it is just a hypotesis.

Bug river in Ukraine is probably related with Bulgars. Before migration to the Thrace Bulgars lived one period in part of Ukraine where is Bug river.

In Croatian scientific circles there is a theory about Onogur conection between proto-Croatians and Bulgarians.

What are you think about this? www.forum.hr/showthread.php?t=73890

[Run-time]

Baltid is just a phenotype, and i don't believe that always phenotype reflects the origin. According to Eastern Euro members from Balto-Slavica anthro forum, i am western looking, although my autosomal DNA is from Poland-Ukraine.
Can you show MDLP27 ? I want to make sure of your" Ukrainian " genetics.

[Run-time]

No Krivich.
Russian imperialistic geopolitical goals in 19th and early 20th century in the Balkans and Caucasus brought dead to millions of Russians.
Russians were obsessed with Constantinople for many centuries. They wanted to took Istanbul (Constantinople) because of restauration of Orthodox Byzantine.
I did not doubt for a moment the meanness of the Serbs.And in your interpretation of the Russian victims.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Can you show MDLP27 ? I want to make sure of your" Ukrainian " genetics.

I didn't mean literally. But i am pretty much shifted from Poland and Belarus for the Southern Slavs. Even some members of here claimed that i have recent ancestor from East Slavic countries, which isn't true. I will post later, now watching game.

[Run-time]

I didn't mean literally. But i am pretty much shifted from Poland and Belarus for the Southern Slavs. Even some members of here claimed that i have recent ancestor from East Slavic countries, which isn't true. I will post later, now watching game.
Bosnians north of the Serbs?

[Pribislav]

Bosnians north of the Serbs?

There is Bosnian nation. In Bosnia exist 3 nations and religions.
Bosnia is like Switzerland or Belgium.

[Moje ime]

The main-the Turkish war about 15 thousand dead. The first world war. Serbia started a war and dragged Russia there - several hundred thousand dead Russian soldiers. World war II-the liberation of Serbia, also thousands of dead.

You always "helped" Serbia just when you had your own interest in it. Also ww1 and ww2 there was no Serbia but Yugoslavia and there was no Russia but SSSR. Ww2 fun fact - part of Red army that came to Yugoslavia was Ukrainian.

But you didn't help at all when it was most important. In 1999 year. You didn't have to risk 10 soldiers to send to Kosovo to avoid bombing.

[Run-time]

You always "helped" Serbia just when you had your own interest in it. Also ww1 and ww2 there was no Serbia but Yugoslavia and there was no Russia but SSSR. Ww2 fun fact - part of Red army that came to Yugoslavia was Ukrainian.

But you didn't help at all when it was most important. In 1999 year. You didn't have to risk 10 soldiers to send to Kosovo to avoid bombing.
And what was the interest in the liberation of Serbia from the Ottoman Empire? What did Russia get from this? You don't learn in school history. You do not know that Serbia several hundred years asked for help from the Russian tsars and whined. Only after the genocide of the Russian Emperor decided to defend Serbia. Russia has not received any benefit from this war. 0 benefits. At that moment, the Russian aristocrats serbophiles regretted the Serbs and sent 15 thousand Russian men to slaughter. And Serbs hid behind the backs of Russian soldiers. 15 thousand dead Russian and only 2.5 of the victims of the Serbs. 2.5 thousand and 500 years of Turkish yoke. The Ukrainians were? Yeah, maybe my Ukrainian ancestors shed blood for your grandfather crap one's pants with fear...

1999? On what basis should we help you? Look at you and what you're writing... that we get, except another betrayal? Russians have 3 brothers: army, Ukrainians and Belarusians. We owe no one else anything.

[Moje ime]

And what was the interest in the liberation of Serbia from the Ottoman Empire? What did Russia get from this? You don't learn in school history. You do not know that Serbia several hundred years asked for help from the Russian tsars and whined. Only after the genocide of the Russian Emperor decided to defend Serbia. Russia has not received any benefit from this war. 0 benefits. At that moment, the Russian aristocrats serbophiles regretted the Serbs and sent 15 thousand Russian men to slaughter. And Serbs hid behind the backs of Russian soldiers. 15 thousand dead Russian and only 2.5 of the victims of the Serbs. 2.5 thousand and 500 years of Turkish yoke. The Ukrainians were? Yeah, maybe my Ukrainian ancestors shed blood for your grandfather crap one's pants with fear...

1999? On what basis should we help you? Look at you and what you're writing... that we get, except another betrayal? Russians have 3 brothers: army, Ukrainians and Belarusians. We owe no one else anything.

Russia was already in war with Turkey so it was natural to find alliance. How many Russia had people and how many Serbia had? Now compare victims.

Anyway I don't understand what the fuck you want from Serbs on this forum?

I wasn't any politician asking for help of Russian politicians.

It is actually shame for you to act like this because you don't respect your own victims.

1999 year - I don't care actually. But again I don't understand what is your problem with Serbs?

[Run-time]

Russia was already in war with Turkey so it was natural to find alliance. How many Russia had people and how many Serbia had? Now compare victims.

Anyway I don't understand what the fuck you want from Serbs on this forum?

I wasn't any politician asking for help of Russian politicians.

It is actually shame for you to act like this because you don't respect your own victims.

1999 year - I don't care actually. But again I don't understand what is your problem with Serbs?
Serbs Troll. I simply respond to the insults of my people and remind them that Serbia would not exist without Russian protection. 1. Russia declared war on Turkey in 1877, after another Serbian whining. 2. Of course, in the army of Serbia 3 thousand people. Only when with impunity harm other peoples your army suddenly becomes in tens of and hundreds of times more.

[Moje ime]

Serbs Troll. I simply respond to the insults of my people and remind them that Serbia would not exist without Russian protection. 1. Russia declared war on Turkey in 1877, after another Serbian whining. 2. Of course, in the army of Serbia 3 thousand people. Only when with impunity harm other peoples your army suddenly becomes in tens of and hundreds of times more.

I've never seen any Serb here talks about Russians at all. We have more important things to do actually.

[Pribislav]

In Ghegs it was really only the ones from Malesi(Montenegro part usually) that had closer relations with Montenegro and some intermarriages with Montenegrin clans. The other regions of the north such as Dukagjini, Puka, Mirdita etc didn't really have contact with the Montenegrins and so I highly doubt they intermarried. Although it is true though that when the Malsors intermarried with Montenegrins, it was usually them taking Montenegrin wives. As you said Slavic input in Albanians is minimal in terms of genetics

I think that paternal Slavic lines among Ghegs are 5-10%, and among Tosks are 10-15%.

[Harkonnen]

I've never seen any Serb here talks about Russians at all. We have more important things to do actually.

Like what?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Like what?

Stealing money and drug dealing in Finland.

[Moje ime]

Like what?

Tebi cu obavezno da objasnjavam.

[Harkonnen]

Tebi cu obavezno da objasnjavam.

Wut?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Krademo stvari od starijih ljudi i dilamo drogu po Finskoj. -Harkonnen

[Kelmendasi]

I think that paternal Slavic lines among Ghegs are 5-10%, and among Tosks are 10-15%.
Among Ghegs it's only around 5-7% whilst in Tosks i'm guessing it should be around 10-15%. Things is the I in Tosks doesn't seem to only be I2a1b-Din, they seem to have a good amount of I1 and some I2a2a within their I.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Wut?

Translate our criminal language.

[Harkonnen]

Serbs Troll. I simply respond to the insults of my people and remind them that Serbia would not exist without Russian protection. 1. Russia declared war on Turkey in 1877, after another Serbian whining. 2. Of course, in the army of Serbia 3 thousand people. Only when with impunity harm other peoples your army suddenly becomes in tens of and hundreds of times more.

There was alzo Finnish battalion in this little conflict.

[Harkonnen]

Translate our criminal language.

Nope.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

There was alzo Finnish battalion in this little conflict.

Finns fought Ottoman Turks? That's something new that i heard.

[Harkonnen]

Finns fought Ottoman Turks? That's something new that i heard.

I posted this some times away ago. Song literally starts; long we have suffered hunger and cold, fighting in the Balkan mountains


https://youtu.be/1nehkhIOa-0

After the suppression of Bulgarian April Uprising in 1876 nearly 100,000 were put to death, men, women, children... A year later many came to fight for those who can not protect themselves, and to help those who need help. What is known as Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878). And the Finns were among them. The Finnish Guards' Rifle Battalion, of nearly 1000.
They distinguished themselves in the battle of Gorni Dubnjak, when the Finns were the ones, who finally get over the walls of the fort. Gorni Dubnjak were a fortified stronghold, ensuring supply route for besieged Turkish army of 70000 strong at Pleven. So it was vital to take it, and finish the encirclement.

[pelikarski]

I posted this some times away ago. Song literally starts; long we have suffered hunger and cold, fighting in the Balkan mountains


https://youtu.be/1nehkhIOa-0

After the suppression of Bulgarian April Uprising in 1876 nearly 100,000 were put to death, men, women, children... A year later many came to fight for those who can not protect themselves, and to help those who need help. What is known as Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878). And the Finns were among them. The Finnish Guards' Rifle Battalion, of nearly 1000.
They distinguished themselves in the battle of Gorni Dubnjak, when the Finns were the ones, who finally get over the walls of the fort. Gorni Dubnjak were a fortified stronghold, ensuring supply route for besieged Turkish army of 70000 strong at Pleven. So it was vital to take it, and finish the encirclement.

A brewery in Tampere is named Plevna, by the old name of Pleven, founded by a Finn soldier who participated in the siege of Pleven

[Harkonnen]

A brewery in Tampere is named Plevna, by the old name of Pleven, founded by a Finn soldier who participated in the siege of Pleven

It was originally a factory, nowadays there's also a movie theater in those facilities.

[TheOldNorth]

yes.

guess they're literally assimilated balts