View Full Version : Ancient South Italian samples from Collegno, Italy from 400-800 AD
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 12:10 PM
Collegno is in the north, however, some ancient samples found there seemed to be southern Italians. Which region they are from is unknown. I personally think mainland southern, but some people on Anthrogenica think Sicilian because they show some North African in their results.
They are shockingly similar to today's southern Italians, which means that the Arab era, Norman, Lombard, and "North Italian repopulation" had only very limited effect. Overall these are strikingly similar to south Italians now.
#4 might be an Abruzzese.
#1: Z567940
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.59
2 West_Asian 21.4
3 West_Med 15.49
4 North_Sea 12.94
5 Atlantic 7.84
6 Red_Sea 6.8
7 Baltic 2.9
8 Amerindian 0.94
9 Sub-Saharan 0.94
10 Southeast_Asian 0.17
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 9.26
2 Central_Greek 9.45
3 East_Sicilian 9.72
4 Ashkenazi 10.63
5 Italian_Jewish 11
6 Italian_Abruzzo 11.58
7 Sephardic_Jewish 11.75
8 Cyprian 12.67
9 Algerian_Jewish 13.29
10 Libyan_Jewish 14.07
11 Lebanese_Muslim 14.1
12 West_Sicilian 14.23
13 Tunisian_Jewish 14.3
14 Turkish 14.59
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.62
16 Syrian 15.19
17 Greek 16.12
18 Assyrian 17.25
19 Tuscan 17.62
20 Armenian 18.26
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65% Assyrian + 35% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.79
2 68.9% East_Sicilian + 31.1% Armenian @ 5.8
3 77.5% Italian_Jewish + 22.5% Georgian @ 6.12
4 64.9% Assyrian + 35.1% Portuguese @ 6.13
5 50.6% Assyrian + 49.4% Tuscan @ 6.13
6 70.6% Central_Greek + 29.4% Armenian @ 6.15
7 71.3% South_Italian + 28.7% Armenian @ 6.15
8 58.9% Assyrian + 41.1% North_Italian @ 6.26
9 70.2% East_Sicilian + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.29
10 62.3% Kurdish_Jewish + 37.7% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.29
11 79.7% Italian_Jewish + 20.3% Abhkasian @ 6.3
12 68.5% East_Sicilian + 31.5% Assyrian @ 6.34
13 69.6% Central_Greek + 30.4% Assyrian @ 6.36
14 71.5% Central_Greek + 28.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.43
15 78.4% Italian_Jewish + 21.6% Ossetian @ 6.43
16 51% Tuscan + 49% Armenian @ 6.44
17 72.4% South_Italian + 27.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.49
18 72.6% Central_Greek + 27.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.5
19 74.5% Italian_Jewish + 25.5% Kumyk @ 6.52
20 62.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 37.4% Assyrian @ 6.54
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.38
2 Atlantic_Med 25.32
3 Southwest_Asian 13.07
4 Gedrosia 10.23
5 North_European 9.33
6 Northwest_African 2.56
7 Sub_Saharan 1
8 Southeast_Asian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.89
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7.03
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.73
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 8.09
5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 8.62
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 10.76
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.62
8 Cypriots (Behar) 13.09
9 C_Italian (Dodecad) 14.27
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.91
11 Turks (Behar) 17.3
12 Lebanese (Behar) 17.35
13 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.5
14 Tuscan (HGDP) 17.96
15 TSI30 (Metspalu) 19.3
16 Druze (HGDP) 19.88
17 Syrians (Behar) 20.31
18 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 21.14
19 Jordanians (Behar) 21.86
20 Armenian (Dodecad) 22.66
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.13
2 63.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.15
3 79% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.17
4 79.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.6% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.24
5 77.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.7% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.29
6 76.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.6% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.32
7 74.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.9% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.48
8 80% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.53
9 77.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.2% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.53
10 62.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.9% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.56
11 61.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.3% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.57
12 61.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.6
13 78.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.3% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.63
14 56.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 43.8% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.63
15 80.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.65
16 58% Tuscan (HGDP) + 42% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.65
17 78.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.71
18 79.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.4% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.8
19 78.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.83
20 56.5% Tuscan (HGDP) + 43.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.96
MDLP K23:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.30
2 European_Early_Farmers 24.04
3 Near_East 13.23
4 South_Central_Asian 9.67
5 North_African 6.39
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 4.67
7 African_Pygmy 1.43
8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.41
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 5.270557
2 French_Jew_ @ 5.686757
3 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.622210
4 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.742620
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.214166
6 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.973927
7 Sicilian_East_ @ 8.725817
8 Cretan_ @ 8.754859
9 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.886272
10 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 9.004933
11 Maltese_ @ 9.040524
12 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.437392
13 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.445340
14 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 9.710759
15 Syrian_Jew_ @ 9.716155
16 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 10.134063
17 Sicilian_Center_ @ 11.435865
18 Romanian_Jew_ @ 11.510304
19 Cypriot_ @ 11.574834
20 Italian_South_ @ 12.187849
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo_ +50% Syrian_Jew_ @ 3.839467
#2: Z122289
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.43
2 West_Asian 21.78
3 West_Med 17.71
4 Atlantic 11.62
5 Red_Sea 7.37
6 Baltic 5.56
7 North_Sea 4.53
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 7.25
2 Sephardic_Jewish 8.86
3 Central_Greek 8.93
4 East_Sicilian 9.14
5 Cyprian 9.38
6 Italian_Jewish 9.98
7 Algerian_Jewish 10.95
8 Ashkenazi 11.25
9 Tunisian_Jewish 11.62
10 Italian_Abruzzo 11.67
11 Lebanese_Muslim 12.77
12 West_Sicilian 13.19
13 Turkish 13.98
14 Syrian 14.38
15 Greek 14.57
16 Libyan_Jewish 14.71
17 Greek_Thessaly 15.89
18 Samaritan 16.91
19 Assyrian 16.93
20 Lebanese_Christian 17.7
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.3% South_Italian + 25.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.83
2 75.1% South_Italian + 24.9% Armenian @ 4.06
3 73.7% South_Italian + 26.3% Assyrian @ 4.27
4 76.5% Algerian_Jewish + 23.5% Georgian @ 4.67
5 78.4% Algerian_Jewish + 21.6% Abhkasian @ 4.69
6 77% South_Italian + 23% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.77
7 87% South_Italian + 13% Abhkasian @ 4.87
8 77.4% South_Italian + 22.6% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.88
9 85.8% South_Italian + 14.2% Georgian @ 4.94
10 83% Sephardic_Jewish + 17% Abhkasian @ 4.98
11 81.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 18.5% Georgian @ 5.01
12 51.8% Central_Greek + 48.2% Cyprian @ 5.05
13 60.3% South_Italian + 39.7% Cyprian @ 5.06
14 69.3% South_Italian + 30.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.06
15 80.6% Italian_Jewish + 19.4% Abhkasian @ 5.08
16 71.6% South_Italian + 28.4% Turkish @ 5.09
17 80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Kurdish @ 5.1
18 79% Italian_Jewish + 21% Georgian @ 5.15
19 57.2% Cyprian + 42.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.17
20 78.2% Algerian_Jewish + 21.8% North_Ossetian @ 5.28
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.78
2 Atlantic_Med 24.44
3 Southwest_Asian 14.39
4 Gedrosia 9.59
5 North_European 9.03
6 Northwest_African 3.66
7 Siberian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 5.75
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.46
3 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.65
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 8.04
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.14
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 9.82
7 Cypriots (Behar) 11.92
8 Greek (Dodecad) 13.23
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.66
10 C_Italian (Dodecad) 15.28
11 Lebanese (Behar) 15.9
12 Turks (Behar) 16.96
13 Druze (HGDP) 18.47
14 O_Italian (Dodecad) 18.63
15 Syrians (Behar) 19.07
16 Tuscan (HGDP) 19.16
17 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 20.4
18 TSI30 (Metspalu) 20.45
19 Jordanians (Behar) 20.47
20 Assyrian (Dodecad) 21.94
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 28.2% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 1.58
2 74.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 1.76
3 76.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 1.83
4 73.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.2% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 1.96
5 59.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 40.9% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.01
6 73.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.4% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.11
7 60.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 39.1% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.11
8 75.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.22
9 73.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.1% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.38
10 73.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.3% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.38
11 75.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.43
12 86.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.1% Lezgins (Behar) @ 2.47
13 75.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.4% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.48
14 75.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.2% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.56
15 74% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.64
16 76.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.67
17 76.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.79
18 78.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.01
19 87.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 3.01
20 84.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.1% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.02
MDLP:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.75
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.68
3 Near_East 14.91
4 South_Central_Asian 9.89
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.57
6 North_African 4.75
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 5.674123
2 Cretan_ @ 6.014977
3 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.765902
4 French_Jew_ @ 6.987210
5 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.489105
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.757552
7 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.886943
8 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.989254
9 Greek_Islands_ @ 8.080032
10 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.317467
11 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.883320
12 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 9.204386
13 Syrian_Jew_ @ 9.731080
14 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.873214
15 Maltese_ @ 10.131627
16 Romanian_Jew_ @ 10.135697
17 Cypriot_ @ 10.395093
18 Italian_South_ @ 10.461729
19 Sicilian_Center_ @ 10.646023
20 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 11.031956
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Iraqi_Jew_ +50% Italian_Tuscan_ @ 3.023083
#3: Z709636
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.4
2 West_Med 22.52
3 West_Asian 20.97
4 Atlantic 11.32
5 Red_Sea 4.72
6 North_Sea 4.28
7 Baltic 1.99
8 South_Asian 1.83
9 Oceanian 0.94
10 Eastern_Euro 0.62
11 Sub-Saharan 0.4
12 Northeast_African 0.01
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 8.29
2 Central_Greek 10.35
3 East_Sicilian 10.56
4 Sephardic_Jewish 10.73
5 Italian_Jewish 10.76
6 Algerian_Jewish 11.25
7 Cyprian 11.69
8 Italian_Abruzzo 12.76
9 Ashkenazi 13.22
10 West_Sicilian 13.34
11 Tunisian_Jewish 13.64
12 Greek 15.54
13 Libyan_Jewish 15.78
14 Lebanese_Muslim 16.21
15 Turkish 16.63
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.78
17 Syrian 17.6
18 Tuscan 17.6
19 Samaritan 19.38
20 Assyrian 19.89
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.4% Georgian_Jewish + 39.6% Sardinian @ 2.71
2 61.9% Assyrian + 38.1% Sardinian @ 2.82
3 61.1% Armenian + 38.9% Sardinian @ 3.53
4 59.7% Iranian_Jewish + 40.3% Sardinian @ 5.4
5 57.8% Kurdish + 42.2% Sardinian @ 5.52
6 60.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 39.8% Sardinian @ 5.55
7 67% Turkish + 33% Sardinian @ 6.04
8 67.9% Lebanese_Muslim + 32.1% Sardinian @ 6.41
9 56.2% Iranian + 43.8% Sardinian @ 6.66
10 60.6% Azeri + 39.4% Sardinian @ 6.71
11 80.7% South_Italian + 19.3% Armenian @ 6.86
12 77% Cyprian + 23% Sardinian @ 7.05
13 81% Algerian_Jewish + 19% Abhkasian @ 7.15
14 89.9% South_Italian + 10.1% Abhkasian @ 7.18
15 82.9% South_Italian + 17.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 7.2
16 69.8% South_Italian + 30.2% Cyprian @ 7.28
17 89.6% South_Italian + 10.4% Georgian @ 7.31
18 79.7% Algerian_Jewish + 20.3% Georgian @ 7.32
19 83% South_Italian + 17% Assyrian @ 7.38
20 85.4% South_Italian + 14.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 7.53
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.22
2 Atlantic_Med 26.59
3 Southwest_Asian 11.96
4 Gedrosia 9.19
5 North_European 8.83
6 Northwest_African 3.4
7 South_Asian 1.43
8 East_African 0.38
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.7
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 6.35
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.41
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.38
5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.92
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 10.02
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.31
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 13.2
9 Cypriots (Behar) 13.7
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.03
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 16.94
12 O_Italian (Dodecad) 16.96
13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 18.31
14 Turks (Behar) 18.54
15 Lebanese (Behar) 18.74
16 Druze (HGDP) 20.95
17 Syrians (Behar) 21.79
18 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.7
19 Jordanians (Behar) 23.09
20 Armenian (Dodecad) 23.82
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.41
2 82.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.3% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.44
3 81.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.52
4 81.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.55
5 84.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.63
6 84.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.9% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.66
7 84.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.1% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.68
8 83.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.1% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.74
9 82.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.74
10 79.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.4% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.76
11 81.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.79
12 80.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.85
13 83% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.92
14 83.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.5% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.97
15 80.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3
16 84.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.7% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
17 83.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.07
18 83.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.4% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 3.18
19 82.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.6% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.18
20 81.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.3% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 3.23
MDLP:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.86
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.15
3 Near_East 11.71
4 South_Central_Asian 9.79
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.50
6 North_African 4.42
7 Melano_Polynesian 1.78
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 3.685783
2 Cretan_ @ 5.531416
3 Greek_Islands_ @ 6.211950
4 French_Jew_ @ 7.210982
5 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.608763
6 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 8.365421
7 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.602526
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.656884
9 Italian_South_ @ 8.676648
10 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.873989
11 Italian_Jew_ @ 9.000772
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.047269
13 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 9.147061
14 Turk_Jew_ @ 9.262103
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.439214
16 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.900864
17 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.966272
18 Ashkenazi_ @ 10.290200
19 Maltese_ @ 10.340202
20 Cypriot_ @ 10.595361
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Jew_ +50% Greek_Smyrna_ @ 3.383271
#4: Z279508
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.09
2 Atlantic 21.02
3 West_Med 18.43
4 West_Asian 15.06
5 North_Sea 11.55
6 Red_Sea 4.98
7 Baltic 1.99
8 Eastern_Euro 1.87
9 Northeast_African 1.03
10 Sub-Saharan 0.48
11 Oceanian 0.46
12 Amerindian 0.03
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 5.51
2 West_Sicilian 6.28
3 Tuscan 6.86
4 East_Sicilian 8.75
5 Central_Greek 9.14
6 South_Italian 9.4
7 Greek 11.4
8 Ashkenazi 11.76
9 North_Italian 12.15
10 Greek_Thessaly 12.6
11 Italian_Jewish 12.71
12 Sephardic_Jewish 13.18
13 Algerian_Jewish 14.3
14 Bulgarian 16.93
15 Tunisian_Jewish 17.61
16 Spanish_Andalucia 17.76
17 Spanish_Extremadura 17.89
18 Spanish_Murcia 18.21
19 Romanian 18.33
20 Portuguese 18.74
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.8% Spanish_Aragon + 43.2% Assyrian @ 3.12
2 61.9% Spanish_Andalucia + 38.1% Assyrian @ 3.15
3 59.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 40.8% Assyrian @ 3.17
4 60.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 39.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.3
5 63.4% Spanish_Andalucia + 36.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.32
6 58.5% Spanish_Aragon + 41.5% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.47
7 62.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 37.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.5
8 57.5% Spanish_Aragon + 42.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.69
9 59.8% Spanish_Valencia + 40.2% Assyrian @ 3.84
10 57.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 42.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.88
11 62.4% Spanish_Andalucia + 37.6% Armenian @ 3.89
12 59.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 40.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.89
13 54.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 45.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.98
14 61.4% Spanish_Valencia + 38.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.99
15 56.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 43.8% Assyrian @ 4.02
16 89.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 10.9% French_Basque @ 4.03
17 60.5% Spanish_Valencia + 39.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.06
18 57.4% Spanish_Aragon + 42.6% Armenian @ 4.09
19 57.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 42.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.11
20 52.3% Spanish_Aragon + 47.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.14
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.06
2 Atlantic_Med 30.21
3 North_European 15.79
4 Southwest_Asian 10.49
5 Gedrosia 7.76
6 Northwest_African 3.83
7 Sub_Saharan 0.77
8 East_Asian 0.09
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 C_Italian (Dodecad) 5.84
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.91
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.93
4 O_Italian (Dodecad) 7.75
5 Greek (Dodecad) 8.88
6 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.44
7 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.15
8 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 10.19
9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.33
10 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 12.99
11 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 14.03
12 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.61
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 17
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 19.59
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 19.94
16 Romanians (Behar) 20.73
17 Cypriots (Behar) 22.46
18 Turkish (Dodecad) 23.02
19 Baleares (1000Genomes) 24.89
20 Turks (Behar) 25.39
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.21
2 65.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.9% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.22
3 74% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 26% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.5
4 86.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.5% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.63
5 86.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.4% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.65
6 75.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.66
7 75.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.8% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.68
8 75.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.5% English (Dodecad) @ 2.7
9 75% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 25% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.71
10 86.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.77
11 86.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.77
12 62.6% N_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.4% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.78
13 86.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.79
14 86.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.79
15 86.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.8
16 86.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.8
17 85.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 14.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.81
18 86.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.82
19 76.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 23.8% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.85
20 85.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 14.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.85
MDLP:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.18
2 European_Early_Farmers 26.58
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.39
4 Near_East 9.97
5 North_African 6.71
6 South_Central_Asian 5.04
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.49
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 1.975049
2 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.480089
3 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 3.556400
4 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.947181
5 Maltese_ @ 4.489886
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.972246
7 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 5.176648
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.222872
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.631435
10 French_Jew_ @ 7.330912
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.776644
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.075896
13 Italian_Tuscan_ @ 8.786612
14 Italian_South_ @ 9.423736
15 Cretan_ @ 9.925926
16 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.024146
17 Italian_Jew_ @ 10.211439
18 Central_Greek_ @ 10.252245
19 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 10.326852
20 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 10.543202
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Sicilian_Trapani_ +50% Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 1.975049
renaissance12
09-13-2018, 12:21 PM
North Italian repopulation in Sicily ?...
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 12:25 PM
North Italian repopulation in Sicily ?...
Some Italian users claim that after all the Arabs were "expelled" (not realizing that most of the Muslims were native converts), the island was significantly repopulated by Normans and North Italians.
The similarity of these samples to modern south Italians show that was not the case.
renaissance12
09-13-2018, 12:28 PM
Sicilians are the results of the mix among all the people facing mediteranean sea... plus some "touch" of normans...
Phenix
09-13-2018, 12:45 PM
North Italian repopulation in Sicily ?...
There is some Gallo-Italic linguistic pockets in Southern Italy mostly in Sicily, but i think it's due to much more later immigration.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Linguistic_map_of_Italy_-_Legend.svg/623px-Linguistic_map_of_Italy_-_Legend.svg.png
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 01:43 PM
https://orig00.deviantart.net/f723/f/2012/162/0/c/holy_shit_by_maseb123-d534uzd.jpg
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 01:59 PM
Kit Number: Z164515 (519 SNPs)
Name: CL110
1 Ain_Touta_WGA @ 20.069473
1 Ari + Baku_WGA + Georgian_Imereti + Macedonian @ 9.359588
Kit Number: Z036148 (9,997 SNPs)
Name: CL49
1 Italian_North @ 9.957961
1 Italian_North + Kuban_cossack + Sardinian + Serb_BH @ 6.170689
Kit Number: Z909242 (133,253 SNPs)
Name: CL23
1 Italian_North @ 8.063900
1 Assyrian_Iraqi + Norwegian_West + Spanish_Baleares_IBS + Spanish_Canarias_IBS @ 2.106975
Kit Number: Z709636 (107,863 SNPs)
Name: CL25
1 Greek_Smyrna @ 3.685783
1 Armenian + Cypriot + Cypriot + Spanish_Cataluna_IBS @ 2.293219
Kit Number: Z122289 (130,043 SNPs)
Name: CL30
1 Greek_Smyrna @ 5.674123
1 Greek_Smyrna + Iraqi_Jew + Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 1.774914
Kit Number: Z057802 (49,082 SNPs)
Name: CL53
1 Italian_North @ 7.544677
1 English_Kent_GBR + Georgian_Tbilisi + Kuban_cossack + Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS @ 2.717666
Kit Number: Z560798 (125,577 SNPs)
Name: CL31
1 Sicilian_West @ 13.113809
1 Cretan + Italian_Bergamo + Korean_KR + Sephardic_Jew @ 4.996346
Kit Number: Z860518 (106,481 SNPs)
Name: CL36
1 Italian_Piedmont @ 5.090179
1 Cypriot + Italian_Bergamo + Mixed_East_Slav + Sardinian @ 1.734251
Kit Number: Z567940 (118,506 SNPs)
Name: CL38
1 Sephardic_Jew @ 5.270557
1 Christian_Arabs_Israel + Kumyk + Muslim_Arabs_Israel + Sardinian @ 1.918086
Kit Number: Z610815 (122,297 SNPs)
Name: CL47
1 Italian_North @ 8.789723
1 Greek_Phokaia + Lithuanian + Sardinian + Slovak @ 3.143943
Kit Number: Z025972 (121,101 SNPs)
Name: CL57
1 Italian_North @ 4.859430
1 Armenian_Yerevan + Belgian + Norwegian_West + Spanish_Cantabria_IBS @ 1.863454
Kit Number: Z764942 (132,090 SNPs)
Name: CL63
1 German-Volga @ 4.151351
1 Greek_Smyrna + North_German + North_German + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 1.131358
Kit Number: Z683996 (79,753 SNPs)
Name: CL83
1 Belgian @ 2.662734
1 Belgian + English_Kent_GBR + English_Kent_GBR + Serb_Serbia @ 1.773404
Kit Number: Z268097 (126,626 SNPs)
Name: CL84
1 North_European @ 3.555502
1 Belgian + English_Kent_GBR + Norwegian_East + Swede @ 1.327948
Kit Number: Z752825 (134,459 SNPs)
Name: CL87
1 Belgian @ 4.036579
1 Balt + Frisian + Kashub + Sardinian @ 1.814816
Kit Number: Z456909 (118,286 SNPs)
Name: CL92
1 North_German @ 3.355129
1 British + Don_cossack + Irish + Orcadian @ 1.618089
Kit Number: Z944242 (61,608 SNPs)
Name: CL102
1 German-Volga @ 6.186839
1 Italian_North + Kuban_cossack + Sardinian + Slovak @ 1.733226
Kit Number: Z104813 (135,630 SNPs)
Name: CL94
1 Italian_North @ 5.977793
1 Frisian + Russian-West + Sardinian + Sicilian_Center @ 2.414938
Kit Number: Z279508 (134,186 SNPs)
Name: CL121
1 Sicilian_Trapani @ 1.975049
1 Ashkenazi_Jew + Italian_Piedmont + Sicilian_Agrigento + Sicilian_Agrigento @ 0.901572
Kit Number: Z887215 (114,220 SNPs)
Name: CL151
1 Dutch @ 3.621410
1 Irish + Orcadian + Swede_Saami + Swede_Saami @ 1.665679
Kit Number: Z292114 (129,547 SNPs)
Name: CL145
1 Dane @ 4.421868
1 Icelandic + Irish + Russian_Meshtchyora + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.241974
Kit Number: Z704319 (130,909 SNPs)
Name: CL146
1 Irish @ 3.224759
1 Dane + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.079917
Kit Number: Z245031 (122,444 SNPs)
Name: CL93
1 North_European @ 3.195230
1 Frisian + Irish + Norwegian_West + Swede @ 1.468058
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 02:15 PM
https://orig00.deviantart.net/f723/f/2012/162/0/c/holy_shit_by_maseb123-d534uzd.jpg
is this your "I told you so" that Arab era South Italy had no genetic impact on the locals? :lol:
What is weird is the paper just says these people are "Italian" but we know even if found in the north, there is no way these are north Italians, obviously southerners.
Hadouken
09-13-2018, 02:17 PM
76.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.13
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 02:18 PM
76.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.13
There are still Sicilians and Calabrians like this today.
Hadouken
09-13-2018, 02:19 PM
There are still Sicilians and Calabrians like this today.
cant remember to have seen such a west asian and in specific kurdish shift when sicilian/south italian is taken as primary population source
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 02:30 PM
cant remember to have seen such a west asian and in specific kurdish shift when sicilian/south italian is taken as primary population source
It is not common but exists.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 02:30 PM
is this your "I told you so" that Arab era South Italy had no genetic impact on the locals? :lol:
What is weird is the paper just says these people are "Italian" but we know even if found in the north, there is no way these are north Italians, obviously southerners.
Those individuals may be Anatolians, not southernes :( I was kinda happy we had ancient DNA from south Italy...
Interesting though that CL121 comes out as fully Trapanese/southcentral Italian according to the oracles :cool:
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 02:31 PM
Those individuals may be Anatolians, not southernes :( I was kinda happy we had ancient DNA from south Italy...
Interesting though that CL121 comes out as fully Trapanese/southcentral Italian according to the oracles :cool:
The paper specifically states they are Italians. However, it doesn't specify a region. But we can gather from how they plot that they are indeed southerners.
The presence of a minor North African component, to me, rules out the idea of them being Anatolian.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 03:26 PM
The paper specifically states they are Italians. However, it doesn't specify a region. But we can gather from how they plot that they are indeed southerners.
The presence of a minor North African component, to me, rules out the idea of them being Anatolian.
The scientific paper just makes a hypothesis but doesn't tell us exactly and precisely what the origins of these people were, ancient Anatolians too plotted close to Calabrians, so the PCA alone can't tell us they are southern Italians. Differences between these 3 ancients and Calabrians are minimal, they are less northern and more CHG. I've found a kit from the province of Salerno (an outlier with higher CHG) which is very similar to these samples.
They were not southern Italians but Northern, from Collegno. And they were local, not recent immigrants.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 03:46 PM
They were not southern Italians but Northern, from Collegno. And they were local, not recent immigrants.
Out of 23 samples only about 6 were locals, others weren't.
Token
09-13-2018, 03:52 PM
Early Medieval Southern German Germanic speakers were Norwegian like, why Northern Italians couldn't have been Southern Italian like?
CommonSense
09-13-2018, 03:58 PM
The strong Levant and West Asian influence is probably from the assimilated slaves originally brought from the eastern provinces. Some of they might have even been Kurds :D
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 03:59 PM
why Northern Italians couldn't have been Southern Italian like?
Southern-shifted samples in Collegno are even more CHG than modern south Italians, it's unlikely north Italians were like them.
tekken999
09-13-2018, 04:03 PM
The strong Levant and West Asian influence is probably from the assimilated slaves originally brought from the eastern provinces. Some of they might have even been Kurds :D
I think this would explain some of the oddities in their dna. By 400 ad, the slave population whether from Syria, Nabatea, Cilicia, Gallia or wherever would have intermixed with the local italian population like some semblance of mestizos I suppose
Hadouken
09-13-2018, 04:04 PM
The strong Levant and West Asian influence is probably from the assimilated slaves originally brought from the eastern provinces. Some of they might have even been Kurds :D
you think so ? I doubt it that we have been slaves and were brought to Italy lol wtf
but these results are interesting because the primary population is south italian / sicilian but even with that there is a kurdish shift
80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Kurdish @ 5.1
76.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.13
76.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.67
76.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.79
81.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.52
81.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.55
----
it is probably just shared Caucasus and East Med though
CommonSense
09-13-2018, 04:07 PM
you think so ? I doubt it that we have been slaves and were brought to Italy lol wtf
but these results are interesting because the primary population is south italian / sicilian but even with that there is a kurdish shift
80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Kurdish @ 5.1
76.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.13
76.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.67
76.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.79
81.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.52
81.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.55
----
it is probably just shared Caucasus and East Med though
Your people bordered the Empire for many centuries. There was even a Roman province named Corduene. It's not at all far fetched to assume that there were some Kurdish soldiers in the Roman army and that a couple of them might have even ended up as slaves after some rebellion or conflict, something which happened to many different peoples who were in close contact with Rome.
Hadouken
09-13-2018, 04:12 PM
Your people bordered the Empire for many centuries. There was even a Roman province named Corduene. It's not at all far fetched to assume that there were some Kurdish soldiers in the Roman army and that a couple of them might have even ended up as slaves after some rebellion or conflict, something which happened to many different peoples who were in close contact with Rome.
well I dont know if it has anything to do with it but I personally have a south italian shift too
eurogenes k13 :
85.7% Kurdish + 14.3% South_Italian @ 2.42
-
Dodecad K12b
80.7% Kurd (Dodecad) + 19.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.2
81.3% Kurd (Dodecad) + 18.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.26
--
Dodecad World 9
83.8% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.4
82.9% Kurd (Dodecad) + 17.1% S_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.49
83.3% Kurd (Dodecad) + 16.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.54
86.5% Kurd (Dodecad) + 13.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.96
-------
Mdlp world
80% Kurd + 20% Sicilian @ 3
etc. etc.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 04:17 PM
The strong Levant and West Asian influence is probably from the assimilated slaves originally brought from the eastern provinces. Some of they might have even been Kurds :D
The fact that in 6th century AD Collegno there were individuals with an Anatolian genetic appearance is due to their probable origin of Roman settlers or missionaries, mercenaries, merchants.
Your people bordered the Empire for many centuries. There was even a Roman province named Corduene. It's not at all far fetched to assume that there were some Kurdish soldiers in the Roman army and that a couple of them might have even ended up as slaves after some rebellion or conflict, something which happened to many different peoples who were in close contact with Rome.
There was no Islam back then and Kurdish identity did not exist before Islam.
Hadouken
09-13-2018, 04:20 PM
There was no Islam back then and Kurdish identity did not exist before Islam.
kurdish identity exists since thousands of years
CommonSense
09-13-2018, 04:22 PM
Kurds, Armenians, Arabs, etc. all existed well before they adopted their present-day abrahamic religions.
Vid Flumina
09-13-2018, 04:23 PM
CL94 is listed as non-local but out of all the individuals sampled it's the one who looks closer to modern Western Piedmontese.
Here he/she is right next two results from Cuneo + 3 results (named CuneoX1, X2, X3) associated with one of the two accounts but no Gedcom was linked so I couldn't verify:
https://i.imgur.com/1gKWTeU.png
Their K15 admix results:
CL94
North_Sea 20.66
Atlantic 25.48
Baltic 8.67
Eastern_Euro 3.20
West_Med 22.36
West_Asian 6.92
East_Med 7.49
Red_Sea 2.55
South_Asian 0.25
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.12
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.67
Sub-Saharan 0.63
Cuneo
North_Sea 24.02
Atlantic 24.61
Baltic 8.93
Eastern_Euro 2.92
West_Med 20.06
West_Asian 3.83
East_Med 13.99
Red_Sea 1.34
South_Asian 0.32
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Cuneo 2
North_Sea 24.89
Atlantic 22.56
Baltic 9.51
Eastern_Euro 1.13
West_Med 21.00
West_Asian 7.40
East_Med 11.97
Red_Sea 0.94
South_Asian 0.59
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
CuneoX1 (unverified)
North_Sea 30.32
Atlantic 22.48
Baltic 4.88
Eastern_Euro 2.76
West_Med 20.55
West_Asian 4.32
East_Med 10.14
Red_Sea 2.82
South_Asian 0.76
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.97
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
CuneoX2 (unverified)
North_Sea 25.09
Atlantic 23.77
Baltic 9.68
Eastern_Euro 3.18
West_Med 21.28
West_Asian 3.89
East_Med 9.73
Red_Sea 0.96
South_Asian 1.23
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.81
Oceanian 0.17
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.23
CuneoX3 (unverified)
North_Sea 21.27
Atlantic 24.98
Baltic 8.14
Eastern_Euro 6.29
West_Med 17.69
West_Asian 6.72
East_Med 12.15
Red_Sea 1.74
South_Asian 0.16
Southeast_Asian 0.18
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.23
Northeast_African 0.44
Sub-Saharan -
The strong Levant and West Asian influence is probably from the assimilated slaves originally brought from the eastern provinces. Some of they might have even been Kurds :D
Their YDNA (E-V13, R1b-S116) and mtDNA (H, I1b and X2) does not support this. The impacts of Slavery overall are exaggerated in Rome, as most "Slaves" or "Serfs" were just local people. These people are extremely similar to modern Cretans as shown in these nMonte models, they're probably either Magna Graecians or Aegean peoples from Byzantine occupation:
"distance%=1.849"
Italian_Jew
Levant_BA_North,39.4
Anatolia_BA,29
Dutch,16.6
Sardinian,15
"distance%=2.5157"
Sephardic_Jew
Levant_BA_North,40.2
Anatolia_BA,33.2
Dutch,16
Sardinian,10.6
"distance%=2.4126"
Ashkenazi_Jew
Levant_BA_North,38.4
Anatolia_BA,28
Dutch,22.8
Sardinian,10.8
"distance%=1.9161"
Italian_South
Anatolia_BA,43.4
Dutch,25.2
Levant_BA_North,20.4
Sardinian,11
"distance%=2.143"
Greek_Crete
Anatolia_BA,58.6
Levant_BA_North,21.2
Dutch,19.4
Sardinian,0.8
"distance%=1.5412"
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1
Anatolia_BA,58.2
Levant_BA_North,23
Dutch,16.6
Sardinian,2.2
Out of 23 samples only about 6 were locals, others weren't.
And these 3 samples posted here were one of those locals.
And btw I don't think anyone can question that Langobards were originally from Scandinavia now that R1a-Z284 was found in one of the samples from Hungary. That subclade of R1a is quite rare anywhere south of Denmark.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 07:02 PM
And these 3 samples posted here were one of those locals.
People who plot east of Calabrians were natives of northwest Italy? Ehm, I don't think so.
People who plot east of Calabrians were natives of northwest Italy? Ehm, I don't think so.
According to the study which used Strontium isotope data they were native.
gıulıoımpa
09-13-2018, 07:19 PM
People who plot east of Calabrians were natives of northwest Italy? Ehm, I don't think so.Yes, i'm more inclined to think they were grandsons of northern romans+ slaves
Or sons of Southern Italy roman + slaves
Inviato dal mio SM-G389F utilizzando Tapatalk
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 07:23 PM
Yes, i'm more inclined to think they were grandsons of northern romans+ slaves
Or sons of Southern Italy roman + slaves
What do you mean?
gıulıoımpa
09-13-2018, 07:25 PM
What do you mean?Because they are too shifted. I think they are result of offspring between slaves and italics
Inviato dal mio SM-G389F utilizzando Tapatalk
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 07:36 PM
Because they are too shifted. I think they are result of offspring between slaves and italics
Shifted to what? And what kind of slaves? They are similar to Calabrians but are east shifted because of their higher Caucasus admixture which makes them closer to ancient Anatolians or Aegeans.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 07:39 PM
According to the study which used Strontium isotope data they were native.
Strontium shows where you were born and grew up, it doesn't tell where your ancestors come from.
gıulıoımpa
09-13-2018, 07:40 PM
Shifted to what? And what kind of slaves? They are similar to Calabrians but are east shifted because of their higher Caucasus admixture which makes them closer to ancient Anatolians or Aegeans.Could a marriage between a roman and a pontic give this kind of result ?
Sorry for the tediousness
Inviato dal mio SM-G389F utilizzando Tapatalk
Strontium shows where you were born and grew up, it doesn't tell where your ancestors come from.
True, but even looking at their Y-DNA, it's not particularly South Italian. But more Greek.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-13-2018, 07:52 PM
Could a marriage between a roman and a pontic give this kind of result ?
Those 3 individuals found in Collegno in 6th century AD didn't show any "Roman" influence. We still don't know how Romans were genetically btw. Collegno used to be an official stopping place on a Roman road so it's normal to find people of different ethnicities, the individuals maybe were Byzantine missionaries, mercenaries or merchants (in the 6th century AD Byzantines controlled large parts of Italy).
Sorry for the tediousness
Tranqui :thumb001:
JQP4545
09-13-2018, 07:52 PM
Why can't these samples be representative of what the Italian peninsula was like before it was overrun by the Teutons?
Levant15
09-13-2018, 08:27 PM
I always knew it.... White supremacist always claim South Italians are a product of Arab rape when in reality they're the indeginous population. The truth is it's the opposite, modern day Italy is whiter than it's ever been because they've been raped by the barbarians.
White supramacists on this site are in denial.
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gıulıoımpa
09-13-2018, 08:33 PM
I always knew it.... White supremacist always claim South Italians are a product of Arab rape when in reality they're the indeginous population. The truth is it's the opposite, modern day Italy is whiter than it's ever been because they've been raped by the barbarians.
White supramacists on this site are in denial.
Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk There is genetic continuity between roman and italian dna .
If those samples weren't outliying we would not be speaking about them in the first place
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Levant15
09-13-2018, 08:42 PM
There is genetic continuity between roman and italian dna .
If those samples weren't outliying we would not be speaking about them in the first place
Inviato dal mio SM-G389F utilizzando TapatalkBlah blah blah
If a southern is found in mainland Europe then he must be a slave and if a white guy found in Egypt then he must've been a Pharoah. We already know where this is going.
If they were slaves they wouldn't be in Graves rather piled up in dirt hole.
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gıulıoımpa
09-13-2018, 08:44 PM
Blah blah blah
If a southern is found in mainland Europe then he must be a slave and if a white guy found in Egypt then he must've been a Pharoah. We already know where this is going.
If they were slaves they wouldn't be in Graves rather piled up in dirt hole.
Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk
That timeline is the one of big power of the Byzantine empire in Italy. but i don't expect you to know that...
Percivalle
09-13-2018, 08:52 PM
According to the study which used Strontium isotope data they were native.
The study doesn't claim they were native. Isotope analysis is able to identify first-generation migrants. Strontium and oxygen isotope values are used to determine where an individual grew up. Being raised in one place does not mean being native from that place.
When the Lombards moved into Italy, in the north of Italy there were already the Byzantines.
redeyednewt
09-13-2018, 09:02 PM
Collegno is in the north, however, some ancient samples found there seemed to be southern Italians. Which region they are from is unknown. I personally think mainland southern, but some people on Anthrogenica think Sicilian because they show some North African in their results.
They are shockingly similar to today's southern Italians, which means that the Arab era, Norman, Lombard, and "North Italian repopulation" had only very limited effect. Overall these are strikingly similar to south Italians now.
#4 might be an Abruzzese.
#1: Z567940
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.59
2 West_Asian 21.4
3 West_Med 15.49
4 North_Sea 12.94
5 Atlantic 7.84
6 Red_Sea 6.8
7 Baltic 2.9
8 Amerindian 0.94
9 Sub-Saharan 0.94
10 Southeast_Asian 0.17
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 9.26
2 Central_Greek 9.45
3 East_Sicilian 9.72
4 Ashkenazi 10.63
5 Italian_Jewish 11
6 Italian_Abruzzo 11.58
7 Sephardic_Jewish 11.75
8 Cyprian 12.67
9 Algerian_Jewish 13.29
10 Libyan_Jewish 14.07
11 Lebanese_Muslim 14.1
12 West_Sicilian 14.23
13 Tunisian_Jewish 14.3
14 Turkish 14.59
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.62
16 Syrian 15.19
17 Greek 16.12
18 Assyrian 17.25
19 Tuscan 17.62
20 Armenian 18.26
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65% Assyrian + 35% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.79
2 68.9% East_Sicilian + 31.1% Armenian @ 5.8
3 77.5% Italian_Jewish + 22.5% Georgian @ 6.12
4 64.9% Assyrian + 35.1% Portuguese @ 6.13
5 50.6% Assyrian + 49.4% Tuscan @ 6.13
6 70.6% Central_Greek + 29.4% Armenian @ 6.15
7 71.3% South_Italian + 28.7% Armenian @ 6.15
8 58.9% Assyrian + 41.1% North_Italian @ 6.26
9 70.2% East_Sicilian + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.29
10 62.3% Kurdish_Jewish + 37.7% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.29
11 79.7% Italian_Jewish + 20.3% Abhkasian @ 6.3
12 68.5% East_Sicilian + 31.5% Assyrian @ 6.34
13 69.6% Central_Greek + 30.4% Assyrian @ 6.36
14 71.5% Central_Greek + 28.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.43
15 78.4% Italian_Jewish + 21.6% Ossetian @ 6.43
16 51% Tuscan + 49% Armenian @ 6.44
17 72.4% South_Italian + 27.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.49
18 72.6% Central_Greek + 27.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.5
19 74.5% Italian_Jewish + 25.5% Kumyk @ 6.52
20 62.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 37.4% Assyrian @ 6.54
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.38
2 Atlantic_Med 25.32
3 Southwest_Asian 13.07
4 Gedrosia 10.23
5 North_European 9.33
6 Northwest_African 2.56
7 Sub_Saharan 1
8 Southeast_Asian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.89
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7.03
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.73
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 8.09
5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 8.62
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 10.76
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.62
8 Cypriots (Behar) 13.09
9 C_Italian (Dodecad) 14.27
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.91
11 Turks (Behar) 17.3
12 Lebanese (Behar) 17.35
13 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.5
14 Tuscan (HGDP) 17.96
15 TSI30 (Metspalu) 19.3
16 Druze (HGDP) 19.88
17 Syrians (Behar) 20.31
18 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 21.14
19 Jordanians (Behar) 21.86
20 Armenian (Dodecad) 22.66
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.13
2 63.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.15
3 79% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.17
4 79.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.6% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.24
5 77.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.7% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.29
6 76.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.6% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.32
7 74.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.9% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.48
8 80% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.53
9 77.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 22.2% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.53
10 62.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.9% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.56
11 61.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.3% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.57
12 61.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.6
13 78.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.3% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.63
14 56.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 43.8% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.63
15 80.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.65
16 58% Tuscan (HGDP) + 42% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.65
17 78.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.71
18 79.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.4% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.8
19 78.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.83
20 56.5% Tuscan (HGDP) + 43.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.96
MDLP K23:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.30
2 European_Early_Farmers 24.04
3 Near_East 13.23
4 South_Central_Asian 9.67
5 North_African 6.39
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 4.67
7 African_Pygmy 1.43
8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.41
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 5.270557
2 French_Jew_ @ 5.686757
3 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.622210
4 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.742620
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.214166
6 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.973927
7 Sicilian_East_ @ 8.725817
8 Cretan_ @ 8.754859
9 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.886272
10 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 9.004933
11 Maltese_ @ 9.040524
12 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.437392
13 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.445340
14 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 9.710759
15 Syrian_Jew_ @ 9.716155
16 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 10.134063
17 Sicilian_Center_ @ 11.435865
18 Romanian_Jew_ @ 11.510304
19 Cypriot_ @ 11.574834
20 Italian_South_ @ 12.187849
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo_ +50% Syrian_Jew_ @ 3.839467
#2: Z122289
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.43
2 West_Asian 21.78
3 West_Med 17.71
4 Atlantic 11.62
5 Red_Sea 7.37
6 Baltic 5.56
7 North_Sea 4.53
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 7.25
2 Sephardic_Jewish 8.86
3 Central_Greek 8.93
4 East_Sicilian 9.14
5 Cyprian 9.38
6 Italian_Jewish 9.98
7 Algerian_Jewish 10.95
8 Ashkenazi 11.25
9 Tunisian_Jewish 11.62
10 Italian_Abruzzo 11.67
11 Lebanese_Muslim 12.77
12 West_Sicilian 13.19
13 Turkish 13.98
14 Syrian 14.38
15 Greek 14.57
16 Libyan_Jewish 14.71
17 Greek_Thessaly 15.89
18 Samaritan 16.91
19 Assyrian 16.93
20 Lebanese_Christian 17.7
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.3% South_Italian + 25.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.83
2 75.1% South_Italian + 24.9% Armenian @ 4.06
3 73.7% South_Italian + 26.3% Assyrian @ 4.27
4 76.5% Algerian_Jewish + 23.5% Georgian @ 4.67
5 78.4% Algerian_Jewish + 21.6% Abhkasian @ 4.69
6 77% South_Italian + 23% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.77
7 87% South_Italian + 13% Abhkasian @ 4.87
8 77.4% South_Italian + 22.6% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.88
9 85.8% South_Italian + 14.2% Georgian @ 4.94
10 83% Sephardic_Jewish + 17% Abhkasian @ 4.98
11 81.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 18.5% Georgian @ 5.01
12 51.8% Central_Greek + 48.2% Cyprian @ 5.05
13 60.3% South_Italian + 39.7% Cyprian @ 5.06
14 69.3% South_Italian + 30.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.06
15 80.6% Italian_Jewish + 19.4% Abhkasian @ 5.08
16 71.6% South_Italian + 28.4% Turkish @ 5.09
17 80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Kurdish @ 5.1
18 79% Italian_Jewish + 21% Georgian @ 5.15
19 57.2% Cyprian + 42.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.17
20 78.2% Algerian_Jewish + 21.8% North_Ossetian @ 5.28
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.78
2 Atlantic_Med 24.44
3 Southwest_Asian 14.39
4 Gedrosia 9.59
5 North_European 9.03
6 Northwest_African 3.66
7 Siberian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 5.75
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.46
3 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.65
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 8.04
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.14
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 9.82
7 Cypriots (Behar) 11.92
8 Greek (Dodecad) 13.23
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.66
10 C_Italian (Dodecad) 15.28
11 Lebanese (Behar) 15.9
12 Turks (Behar) 16.96
13 Druze (HGDP) 18.47
14 O_Italian (Dodecad) 18.63
15 Syrians (Behar) 19.07
16 Tuscan (HGDP) 19.16
17 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 20.4
18 TSI30 (Metspalu) 20.45
19 Jordanians (Behar) 20.47
20 Assyrian (Dodecad) 21.94
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 28.2% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 1.58
2 74.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 1.76
3 76.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 1.83
4 73.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.2% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 1.96
5 59.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 40.9% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.01
6 73.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.4% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.11
7 60.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 39.1% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.11
8 75.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.5% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.22
9 73.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.1% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.38
10 73.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.3% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.38
11 75.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.43
12 86.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.1% Lezgins (Behar) @ 2.47
13 75.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.4% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.48
14 75.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 24.2% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.56
15 74% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.64
16 76.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.67
17 76.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.79
18 78.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 3.01
19 87.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 3.01
20 84.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.1% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.02
MDLP:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.75
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.68
3 Near_East 14.91
4 South_Central_Asian 9.89
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.57
6 North_African 4.75
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 5.674123
2 Cretan_ @ 6.014977
3 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.765902
4 French_Jew_ @ 6.987210
5 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.489105
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.757552
7 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.886943
8 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.989254
9 Greek_Islands_ @ 8.080032
10 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.317467
11 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.883320
12 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 9.204386
13 Syrian_Jew_ @ 9.731080
14 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.873214
15 Maltese_ @ 10.131627
16 Romanian_Jew_ @ 10.135697
17 Cypriot_ @ 10.395093
18 Italian_South_ @ 10.461729
19 Sicilian_Center_ @ 10.646023
20 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 11.031956
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Iraqi_Jew_ +50% Italian_Tuscan_ @ 3.023083
#3: Z709636
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.4
2 West_Med 22.52
3 West_Asian 20.97
4 Atlantic 11.32
5 Red_Sea 4.72
6 North_Sea 4.28
7 Baltic 1.99
8 South_Asian 1.83
9 Oceanian 0.94
10 Eastern_Euro 0.62
11 Sub-Saharan 0.4
12 Northeast_African 0.01
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 8.29
2 Central_Greek 10.35
3 East_Sicilian 10.56
4 Sephardic_Jewish 10.73
5 Italian_Jewish 10.76
6 Algerian_Jewish 11.25
7 Cyprian 11.69
8 Italian_Abruzzo 12.76
9 Ashkenazi 13.22
10 West_Sicilian 13.34
11 Tunisian_Jewish 13.64
12 Greek 15.54
13 Libyan_Jewish 15.78
14 Lebanese_Muslim 16.21
15 Turkish 16.63
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.78
17 Syrian 17.6
18 Tuscan 17.6
19 Samaritan 19.38
20 Assyrian 19.89
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.4% Georgian_Jewish + 39.6% Sardinian @ 2.71
2 61.9% Assyrian + 38.1% Sardinian @ 2.82
3 61.1% Armenian + 38.9% Sardinian @ 3.53
4 59.7% Iranian_Jewish + 40.3% Sardinian @ 5.4
5 57.8% Kurdish + 42.2% Sardinian @ 5.52
6 60.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 39.8% Sardinian @ 5.55
7 67% Turkish + 33% Sardinian @ 6.04
8 67.9% Lebanese_Muslim + 32.1% Sardinian @ 6.41
9 56.2% Iranian + 43.8% Sardinian @ 6.66
10 60.6% Azeri + 39.4% Sardinian @ 6.71
11 80.7% South_Italian + 19.3% Armenian @ 6.86
12 77% Cyprian + 23% Sardinian @ 7.05
13 81% Algerian_Jewish + 19% Abhkasian @ 7.15
14 89.9% South_Italian + 10.1% Abhkasian @ 7.18
15 82.9% South_Italian + 17.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 7.2
16 69.8% South_Italian + 30.2% Cyprian @ 7.28
17 89.6% South_Italian + 10.4% Georgian @ 7.31
18 79.7% Algerian_Jewish + 20.3% Georgian @ 7.32
19 83% South_Italian + 17% Assyrian @ 7.38
20 85.4% South_Italian + 14.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 7.53
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.22
2 Atlantic_Med 26.59
3 Southwest_Asian 11.96
4 Gedrosia 9.19
5 North_European 8.83
6 Northwest_African 3.4
7 South_Asian 1.43
8 East_African 0.38
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.7
2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 6.35
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.41
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.38
5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.92
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 10.02
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.31
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 13.2
9 Cypriots (Behar) 13.7
10 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.03
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 16.94
12 O_Italian (Dodecad) 16.96
13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 18.31
14 Turks (Behar) 18.54
15 Lebanese (Behar) 18.74
16 Druze (HGDP) 20.95
17 Syrians (Behar) 21.79
18 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.7
19 Jordanians (Behar) 23.09
20 Armenian (Dodecad) 23.82
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.41
2 82.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.3% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.44
3 81.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.52
4 81.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.55
5 84.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.63
6 84.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.9% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.66
7 84.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.1% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.68
8 83.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.1% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.74
9 82.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.74
10 79.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.4% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.76
11 81.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.79
12 80.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.3% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.85
13 83% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 2.92
14 83.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.5% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.97
15 80.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.1% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 3
16 84.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.7% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.04
17 83.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 3.07
18 83.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.4% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 3.18
19 82.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.6% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 3.18
20 81.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.3% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 3.23
MDLP:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.86
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.15
3 Near_East 11.71
4 South_Central_Asian 9.79
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.50
6 North_African 4.42
7 Melano_Polynesian 1.78
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 3.685783
2 Cretan_ @ 5.531416
3 Greek_Islands_ @ 6.211950
4 French_Jew_ @ 7.210982
5 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.608763
6 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 8.365421
7 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.602526
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.656884
9 Italian_South_ @ 8.676648
10 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.873989
11 Italian_Jew_ @ 9.000772
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.047269
13 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 9.147061
14 Turk_Jew_ @ 9.262103
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.439214
16 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.900864
17 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.966272
18 Ashkenazi_ @ 10.290200
19 Maltese_ @ 10.340202
20 Cypriot_ @ 10.595361
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Jew_ +50% Greek_Smyrna_ @ 3.383271
#4: Z279508
Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.09
2 Atlantic 21.02
3 West_Med 18.43
4 West_Asian 15.06
5 North_Sea 11.55
6 Red_Sea 4.98
7 Baltic 1.99
8 Eastern_Euro 1.87
9 Northeast_African 1.03
10 Sub-Saharan 0.48
11 Oceanian 0.46
12 Amerindian 0.03
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 5.51
2 West_Sicilian 6.28
3 Tuscan 6.86
4 East_Sicilian 8.75
5 Central_Greek 9.14
6 South_Italian 9.4
7 Greek 11.4
8 Ashkenazi 11.76
9 North_Italian 12.15
10 Greek_Thessaly 12.6
11 Italian_Jewish 12.71
12 Sephardic_Jewish 13.18
13 Algerian_Jewish 14.3
14 Bulgarian 16.93
15 Tunisian_Jewish 17.61
16 Spanish_Andalucia 17.76
17 Spanish_Extremadura 17.89
18 Spanish_Murcia 18.21
19 Romanian 18.33
20 Portuguese 18.74
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.8% Spanish_Aragon + 43.2% Assyrian @ 3.12
2 61.9% Spanish_Andalucia + 38.1% Assyrian @ 3.15
3 59.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 40.8% Assyrian @ 3.17
4 60.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 39.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.3
5 63.4% Spanish_Andalucia + 36.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.32
6 58.5% Spanish_Aragon + 41.5% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.47
7 62.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 37.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.5
8 57.5% Spanish_Aragon + 42.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.69
9 59.8% Spanish_Valencia + 40.2% Assyrian @ 3.84
10 57.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 42.2% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.88
11 62.4% Spanish_Andalucia + 37.6% Armenian @ 3.89
12 59.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 40.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.89
13 54.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 45.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.98
14 61.4% Spanish_Valencia + 38.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.99
15 56.2% Spanish_Cantabria + 43.8% Assyrian @ 4.02
16 89.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 10.9% French_Basque @ 4.03
17 60.5% Spanish_Valencia + 39.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.06
18 57.4% Spanish_Aragon + 42.6% Armenian @ 4.09
19 57.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 42.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.11
20 52.3% Spanish_Aragon + 47.7% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.14
Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.06
2 Atlantic_Med 30.21
3 North_European 15.79
4 Southwest_Asian 10.49
5 Gedrosia 7.76
6 Northwest_African 3.83
7 Sub_Saharan 0.77
8 East_Asian 0.09
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 C_Italian (Dodecad) 5.84
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.91
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.93
4 O_Italian (Dodecad) 7.75
5 Greek (Dodecad) 8.88
6 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.44
7 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.15
8 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 10.19
9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.33
10 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 12.99
11 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 14.03
12 N_Italian (Dodecad) 15.61
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 17
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 19.59
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 19.94
16 Romanians (Behar) 20.73
17 Cypriots (Behar) 22.46
18 Turkish (Dodecad) 23.02
19 Baleares (1000Genomes) 24.89
20 Turks (Behar) 25.39
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.21
2 65.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.9% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.22
3 74% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 26% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.5
4 86.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.5% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.63
5 86.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.4% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.65
6 75.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.66
7 75.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.8% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.68
8 75.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 24.5% English (Dodecad) @ 2.7
9 75% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 25% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.71
10 86.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.77
11 86.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.77
12 62.6% N_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.4% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.78
13 86.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.79
14 86.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.79
15 86.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.8
16 86.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.8
17 85.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 14.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.81
18 86.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.82
19 76.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 23.8% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.85
20 85.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 14.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.85
MDLP:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.18
2 European_Early_Farmers 26.58
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.39
4 Near_East 9.97
5 North_African 6.71
6 South_Central_Asian 5.04
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.49
Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 1.975049
2 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.480089
3 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 3.556400
4 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.947181
5 Maltese_ @ 4.489886
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.972246
7 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 5.176648
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.222872
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.631435
10 French_Jew_ @ 7.330912
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.776644
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.075896
13 Italian_Tuscan_ @ 8.786612
14 Italian_South_ @ 9.423736
15 Cretan_ @ 9.925926
16 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.024146
17 Italian_Jew_ @ 10.211439
18 Central_Greek_ @ 10.252245
19 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 10.326852
20 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 10.543202
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Sicilian_Trapani_ +50% Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 1.975049
Thanks for posting about this topic, where did you learn about it?
The study doesn't claim they were native. Isotope analysis is able to identify first-generation migrants. Strontium and oxygen isotope values are used to determine where an individual grew up. Being raised in one place does not mean being native from that place.
When the Lombards moved into Italy, in the north of Italy there were already the Byzantines.
Yeah, I would agree but one of the two males carried the haplogroup R1b-P312. I believe someone on Anthrogenica predicted further to R1b-U152, which is very typically North Italian, or atleast Central European.
Levant15
09-13-2018, 09:13 PM
Thanks for posting about this topic, where did you learn about it?https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4
Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk
Percivalle
09-13-2018, 09:15 PM
Yeah, I would agree but one of the two males carried the haplogroup R1b-P312. I believe someone on Anthrogenica predicted further to R1b-U152, which is very typically North Italian, or atleast Central European.
Which one? In any case, it doesn't prove anything about his full ancestry. There were also southern European-like people in the Lombard Cemetery at Szólád, Hungary. And many Lombards were U152 and weren't local.
Which one? In any case, it doesn't prove anything about his full ancestry. There were also southern European-like people in the Lombard Cemetery at Szólád, Hungary. And many Lombards were U152 and weren't local.
Collegno_CL30. If he was autosomally an outlier for that area then he can't have been a recent immigrant either since his Y-DNA seems very local, he must've acquired it from many generations back considering he's clustering with modern day Western Jews and Cretans and no sign of further Northern admix.
Those U152 Lombards were recently mixed with (presumably)locals, as shown by the ADMIXTURE run in the study and the Gedmatch results we have of them. The Norwegian-like Lombards were mostly U106 and one was R1a-Z284.
Buckeye
09-13-2018, 09:51 PM
CL94 is listed as non-local but out of all the individuals sampled it's the one who looks closer to modern Western Piedmontese.
Here he/she is right next two results from Cuneo + 3 results (named CuneoX1, X2, X3) associated with one of the two accounts but no Gedcom was linked so I couldn't verify:
https://i.imgur.com/1gKWTeU.png
Their K15 admix results:
CL94
North_Sea 20.66
Atlantic 25.48
Baltic 8.67
Eastern_Euro 3.20
West_Med 22.36
West_Asian 6.92
East_Med 7.49
Red_Sea 2.55
South_Asian 0.25
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.12
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.67
Sub-Saharan 0.63
Cuneo
North_Sea 24.02
Atlantic 24.61
Baltic 8.93
Eastern_Euro 2.92
West_Med 20.06
West_Asian 3.83
East_Med 13.99
Red_Sea 1.34
South_Asian 0.32
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Cuneo 2
North_Sea 24.89
Atlantic 22.56
Baltic 9.51
Eastern_Euro 1.13
West_Med 21.00
West_Asian 7.40
East_Med 11.97
Red_Sea 0.94
South_Asian 0.59
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
CuneoX1 (unverified)
North_Sea 30.32
Atlantic 22.48
Baltic 4.88
Eastern_Euro 2.76
West_Med 20.55
West_Asian 4.32
East_Med 10.14
Red_Sea 2.82
South_Asian 0.76
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.97
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
CuneoX2 (unverified)
North_Sea 25.09
Atlantic 23.77
Baltic 9.68
Eastern_Euro 3.18
West_Med 21.28
West_Asian 3.89
East_Med 9.73
Red_Sea 0.96
South_Asian 1.23
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.81
Oceanian 0.17
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.23
CuneoX3 (unverified)
North_Sea 21.27
Atlantic 24.98
Baltic 8.14
Eastern_Euro 6.29
West_Med 17.69
West_Asian 6.72
East_Med 12.15
Red_Sea 1.74
South_Asian 0.16
Southeast_Asian 0.18
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.23
Northeast_African 0.44
Sub-Saharan -
Is it possible to plot myself on this??
Percivalle
09-13-2018, 10:02 PM
Collegno_CL30. If he was autosomally an outlier for that area then he can't have been a recent immigrant either since his Y-DNA seems very local, he must've acquired it from many generations back considering he's clustering with modern day Western Jews and Cretans and no sign of further Northern admix..
That his Y-DNA was very local is not very accurate, being that his Y-DNA is not exclusive of northern Italy. So according to you, who was CL30? Northern Italians were like Western Jews and Cretans? Is this that you're suggesting?
And what about mtDNA I1b?
Those U152 Lombards were recently mixed with (presumably)locals, as shown by the ADMIXTURE run in the study and the Gedmatch results we have of them. The Norwegian-like Lombards were mostly U106 and one was R1a-Z284.
All these have same haplogroup of CL 30 and were from the Hungarian cemetery. They weren't mixed with Italians. So with which locals were mixed?
SZ27B R1b1a1a2a1a2 S116 N1a1a1a1
SZ37 R1b1a1a2a1a2 S116 H66a
SZ42 R1b1a1a2a1a2 S116 K2a6
That his Y-DNA was very local is not very accurate, being that his Y-DNA is not exclusive of northern Italy. So according to you, who was CL30? Northern Italians were like Western Jews and Cretans? Is this that you're suggesting?
And what about mtDNA I1b?
I have no real idea of what Northern Italy would've been like at that time. We have no relevant samples from that part of Europe other than these people found in Lombard cemeteries.
Though I can't say I'm surprised we have these results from such a central region of Europe which has a very rich history post-Roman era. I wasn't expecting a great continuity to modern day North Italians.
All these have same haplogroup of CL 30 and were from the Hungarian cemetery. They weren't mixed with Italians. So with which locals were mixed?
SZ27B R1b1a1a2a1a2 S116 N1a1a1a1
SZ37 R1b1a1a2a1a2 S116 H66a
SZ42 R1b1a1a2a1a2 S116 K2a6
Modern day Hungary and adjacent area has a reasonably high R1b-P312 yet today. The earlier Bell Beakers from Central Europe were rich in P312. The R1b-P312 in the mixed Lombards from the Hungarian cemetery was obviously not from Northern Italy. It surely was not from Greece or other parts of Southeastern Europe though.
JQP4545
09-13-2018, 10:23 PM
I'm going to retract my previous post and ask why are these samples so different from the Remedello samples? What other migration to Italy took place between the Bronze age and 400-600 AD?
I'm going to retract my previous post and ask why are these samples so different from the Remedello samples? What other migration to Italy took place between the Bronze age and 400-600 AD?
Good question. There was a Bronze Age migration from Anatolia that has affected basically mostly Southern Europe, particulary Southeastern Europe. They brought the extra CHG/Iran_N admix in addition to what the Indo-Europeans carried. We see this admix in the Minoans already and the Bronze Age samples from various parts of the Balkans.
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 10:31 PM
They cannot possibly be Anatolian because they score North African in their calculators, which makes that impossible. It also is very unlikely they are Aegean islanders or native north Italians, because again, the North African.
The only possibility is southern Italian.
They cannot possibly be Anatolian because they score North African in their calculators, which makes that impossible. It also is very unlikely they are Aegean islanders or native north Italians, because again, the North African.
The only possibility is southern Italian.
I can't find any North African with nMonte
"distance%=1.2954"
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1
Anatolia_BA,53.2
Levant_BA_North,25.6
Beaker_The_Netherlands,18.6
Remedello_BA,2.6
Unlike modern Sicilians
"distance%=1.7327"
Sicilian_East
Anatolia_BA,30.4
Levant_BA_North,27.2
Beaker_The_Netherlands,25.6
Remedello_BA,14.4
Mozabite,2.4
They resemble Cretans more than South Italians.
Bosniensis
09-13-2018, 10:59 PM
Some Italian users claim that after all the Arabs were "expelled" (not realizing that most of the Muslims were native converts), the island was significantly repopulated by Normans and North Italians.
The similarity of these samples to modern south Italians show that was not the case.
70% of Constantinople are native converts not to mention Marmara region.
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 11:17 PM
I can't find any North African with nMonte
"distance%=1.2954"
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1
Anatolia_BA,53.2
Levant_BA_North,25.6
Beaker_The_Netherlands,18.6
Remedello_BA,2.6
Unlike modern Sicilians
"distance%=1.7327"
Sicilian_East
Anatolia_BA,30.4
Levant_BA_North,27.2
Beaker_The_Netherlands,25.6
Remedello_BA,14.4
Mozabite,2.4
They resemble Cretans more than South Italians.
Why would someone from Crete have been in North Italy? Makes no sense.
Also, what happens if you model Crete with the above populations? No region of Greece is genetically closer to southern Italy than is Crete.
Why would someone from Crete have been in North Italy? Makes no sense.
Also, what happens if you model Crete with the above populations? No region of Greece is genetically closer to southern Italy than is Crete.
Very similar but slightly more Northern
"distance%=1.5935"
Greek_Crete
Anatolia_BA,50.2
Levant_BA_North,25.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,24
Remedello_BA,0.4
South Italians clearly have more European farmer than Cretans or other Greek Islanders, who seem to lack it other than that coming from Indo-Europeans.
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 11:25 PM
Very similar but slightly more Northern
"distance%=1.5935"
Greek_Crete
Anatolia_BA,50.2
Levant_BA_North,25.4
Beaker_The_Netherlands,24
Remedello_BA,0.4
South Italians clearly have more European farmer than Cretans or other Greek Islanders, who seem to lack it other than that coming from Indo-Europeans.
Remedello vs Anatolia BA is the only difference I see between the two. But as i said there is no Greek population closer to southern Italians, than what we see in Crete. And it doesn't look like a north vs south difference.
When you add mainland Greeks in the mix, then you see a huge difference, but not with Crete.
Remedello vs Anatolia BA is the only difference I see between the two. But as i said there is no Greek population closer to southern Italians, than what we see in Crete. And it doesn't look like a north vs south difference.
When you add mainland Greeks in the mix, then you see a huge difference, but not with Crete.
But they are not identical, there's some difference between Greek Islanders and South Italians. As shown here. And these Collegno outliers seem to score much more similar to Greek Islanders.
Sikeliot
09-13-2018, 11:32 PM
But they are not identical, there's some difference between Greek Islanders and South Italians. As shown here. And these Collegno outliers seem to score much more similar to Greek Islanders.
Greek islanders have minor Slavic though. And southern Italians may have mixed with other Italians. Though it depends on the samples.
For whichever reason all the regions of southern Italy sampled do not match but I have many individual results from regions not included in the averages, that are closer to Crete than to the averages that are supposed to represent them....
Greek islanders have minor Slavic though. And southern Italians may have mixed with other Italians. Though it depends on the samples.
For whichever reason all the regions of southern Italy sampled do not match but I have many individual results from regions not included in the averages, that are closer to Crete than to the averages that are supposed to represent them....
South Italians definitely do have a different ethnogenesis than Cretans or other Greek Islanders, which is not only shown autosomally(they have more WHG/European farmer lacking in Greeks and lower West Asian) but also looking at uniparental markers who differ significantly.
Mingle
09-14-2018, 12:17 AM
Greek islanders have minor Slavic though. And southern Italians may have mixed with other Italians. Though it depends on the samples.
For whichever reason all the regions of southern Italy sampled do not match but I have many individual results from regions not included in the averages, that are closer to Crete than to the averages that are supposed to represent them....
Do they have a lot of shared SNPs?
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 12:23 AM
South Italians definitely do have a different ethnogenesis than Cretans or other Greek Islanders, which is not only shown autosomally(they have more WHG/European farmer lacking in Greeks and lower West Asian) but also looking at uniparental markers who differ significantly.
Again you need to stop looking at averages of 6 people or whatever and actually look at the hundreds of individual results. There are Aegean islanders plotting everywhere from near the Peloponnese to near Cypriots. There are southern Italians plotting everywhere from central Italy to near Moroccan Jews.
Southern Italians have higher Red Sea and the North African component also (and as mentioned, NE European which exists at low levels in Crete). But the point I am making is mainland Greeks are genetically further away.
Again you need to stop looking at averages of 6 people or whatever and actually look at the hundreds of individual results. There are Aegean islanders plotting everywhere from near the Peloponnese to near Cypriots. There are southern Italians plotting everywhere from central Italy to near Moroccan Jews.
Southern Italians have higher Red Sea and the North African component also (and as mentioned, NE European which exists at low levels in Crete). But the point I am making is mainland Greeks are genetically further away.
Weak argument, I prefer to look at the academic samples David is using in his spreadsheet.
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 12:32 AM
Weak argument, I prefer to look at the academic samples David is using in his spreadsheet.
What is more telling is looking where they plot on PCA plots. South Italians and Crete overlap significantly and are right next to one another, the difference is so marginal it is not even worth speaking of, with the exception of there being North African in Sicily, and slightly higher Caucasian in Crete. The Levantine and North European are roughly the same.
What is more telling is looking where they plot on PCA plots. South Italians and Crete overlap significantly and are right next to one another, the difference is so marginal it is not even worth speaking of, with the exception of there being North African in Sicily, and slightly higher Caucasian in Crete. The Levantine and North European are roughly the same.
It doesn't seem so marginal to me. There's some overlap but the difference is def there.
The Collegno outliers plot with Western Jews, but looking at their autosomal composition we can see that they have far less Levantine input than Western Jews and instead resemble Cretans but a bit less Northern shifted.
https://i.imgur.com/hAaznv2.png
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 12:40 AM
It doesn't seem so marginal to me. There's some overlap but the difference is def there.
The Collegno outliers plot with Western Jews, but looking at their autosomal composition we can see that they have far less Levantine input than Western Jews and instead resemble Cretans but a bit less Northern shifted.
https://i.imgur.com/hAaznv2.png
Those Sicilian samples are from Syracuse and Trapani ("East" and "West" Sicily) which do not represent the entirety of Sicily because those are north-shifted outlier regions. Again, I have analyzed hundreds of results and I am telling you, you are making generalizations.
I can easily show you southern Italians who plot with those people, who the study says are Italian and I am going to trust that over you.
Those Sicilian samples are from Syracuse and Trapani ("East" and "West" Sicily) which do not represent the entirety of Sicily because those are north-shifted outlier regions. Again, I have analyzed hundreds of results and I am telling you, you are making generalizations.
I can easily show you southern Italians who plot with those people, who the study says are Italian and I am going to trust that over you.
And I'm going to trust academic samples over your biasedness.
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 12:43 AM
And I'm going to trust academic samples over your biasedness.
I don't see how there is a huge difference even in the academic samples. The Cretans and Sicilians have the same amount of affinity to the Levant, and the same amount of affinity to Northern Europe.
Lavrentis
09-14-2018, 12:48 AM
I don't see how there is a huge difference even in the academic samples. The Cretans and Sicilians have the same amount of affinity to the Levant, and the same amount of affinity to Northern Europe.
Can you post the chart which compared the European, MENA and Caucasus components from Sarno et al between Albanians, mainland Greeks, Sicilians and Cretans?
I want to check it again to compare the differences between Sicilians and Cretans. This discussion is interesting
I don't see how there is a huge difference even in the academic samples. The Cretans and Sicilians have the same amount of affinity to the Levant, and the same amount of affinity to Northern Europe.
But differ in other components, like Cretans seem to have more CHG/Iran_N whilst Sicilians seem to have more West Med/WHG and North African. Add to that the difference found in uniparental markers, then we can clearly see that they had similar, but still significantly different ethnogenesis. I'm sure most of the Northern Euro in Cretans probably comes from Proto-Greeks and possibly maybe some minor Slavic(I doubt this though), whilst in South Italy mainly Proto-Greeks and also Early Italics seem to account for their Northern input, which is shown by the high amount of R1b-P312 in Southern Italy.
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 12:55 AM
Can you post the chart which compared the European, MENA and Caucasus components from Sarno et al between Albanians, mainland Greeks, Sicilians and Cretans?
I want to check it again to compare the differences between Sicilians and Cretans. This discussion is interesting
This is from my Eurogenes K36 samples with 15 people in each sample. I only included the big categories.
Palermo:
East Med: 14.88
Iberian 10.70
Italian: 20.34
Near East: 14.21
North African: 3.31
North Caucasian: 3.37
West Med:5.82
NE Sicily:
East Med: 16.65
Iberian: 10.83
Italian: 19.38
Near East: 15.29
North Africa: 2.68
North Caucasian: 3.86
West Med: 5.46
SE Sicily:
East Med: 14.67
Iberian: 10.26
Italian: 19.96
Near East: 12.99
North African: 2.31
North Caucasian: 3.63
West Med: 6.80
Cyclades:
East Med: 15.67
Iberian: 5.93
Italian: 22.08
Near East: 12.14
North Africa; 0.78
North Caucasian: 6.35
West Med: 4.76
Dodecanese:
East Med: 18.46
Iberian: 7.45
Italian: 21.16
Near East: 13.49
North African: 0.10
North Caucasian: 5.44
West Med: 5.47
Crete:
East Med: 17.70
Iberian: 6.92
Italian: 19.12
Near East: 11.68
North African: 0.64
North Caucasian: 6.49
West Med: 5.85
North Aegean islands:
East Med: 18.31
Iberian: 7.69
Italian: 19.53
Near East: 10.86
North Africa: 0.37
North Caucasian: 6.03
West Med: 4.67
Lavrentis
09-14-2018, 01:00 AM
Never mind, I found the chart:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180914/67b2960482f2876f60d357f0e5a2c53f.png
The near Eastern and European-like components are almost identical between south Italians and Cretans, with the exception of people from Trapani who are more European-like and less near Eastern.
Cretans are more Caucasus and south Italians are more Sardinian-like. The difference is not big though.
I think that sums it up
Lavrentis
09-14-2018, 01:01 AM
This is from my Eurogenes K36 samples with 15 people in each sample. I only included the big categories.
Palermo:
East Med: 14.88
Iberian 10.70
Italian: 20.34
Near East: 14.21
North African: 3.31
North Caucasian: 3.37
West Med:5.82
NE Sicily:
East Med: 16.65
Iberian: 10.83
Italian: 19.38
Near East: 15.29
North Africa: 2.68
North Caucasian: 3.86
West Med: 5.46
SE Sicily:
East Med: 14.67
Iberian: 10.26
Italian: 19.96
Near East: 12.99
North African: 2.31
North Caucasian: 3.63
West Med: 6.80
Cyclades:
East Med: 15.67
Iberian: 5.93
Italian: 22.08
Near East: 12.14
North Africa; 0.78
North Caucasian: 6.35
West Med: 4.76
Dodecanese:
East Med: 18.46
Iberian: 7.45
Italian: 21.16
Near East: 13.49
North African: 0.10
North Caucasian: 5.44
West Med: 5.47
Crete:
East Med: 17.70
Iberian: 6.92
Italian: 19.12
Near East: 11.68
North African: 0.64
North Caucasian: 6.49
West Med: 5.85
North Aegean islands:
East Med: 18.31
Iberian: 7.69
Italian: 19.53
Near East: 10.86
North Africa: 0.37
North Caucasian: 6.03
West Med: 4.67
This is helpful too, thank you
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 01:06 AM
Never mind, I found the chart:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180914/67b2960482f2876f60d357f0e5a2c53f.png
The near Eastern and European-like components are almost identical between south Italians and Cretans, with the exception of people from Trapani who are more European-like and less near Eastern.
Cretans are more Caucasus and south Italians are more Sardinian-like. The difference is not big though.
I think that sums it up
The red Near East component is actually higher in Sicily/Calabria than in Crete, but in Apulia it is closer to Cretan levels.
Sikeliot
09-14-2018, 04:14 AM
Never mind, I found the chart:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180914/67b2960482f2876f60d357f0e5a2c53f.png
The near Eastern and European-like components are almost identical between south Italians and Cretans, with the exception of people from Trapani who are more European-like and less near Eastern.
Cretans are more Caucasus and south Italians are more Sardinian-like. The difference is not big though.
I think that sums it up
Apulian sample from Lecce is the closest to the Cretans. The Sicilians and Calabrese have less Caucasus and more Near Eastern.
Ajeje Brazorf
09-14-2018, 04:45 AM
They cannot possibly be Anatolian because they score North African in their calculators, which makes that impossible. It also is very unlikely they are Aegean islanders or native north Italians, because again, the North African.
The only possibility is southern Italian.
NA could be noise in them, who knows. In that period Italy was ruled by Byzantines so Anatolian would be my guess.
The North African is probably noise, only CL38 scores any on nMonte/Global25 and its very minor at 1.4%. GEDmatch isn't accurate for these sorts of things.
"distance%=2.5867"
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1:CL38
Anatolia_BA,63.6
Dutch,17.6
Levant_BA_North,17.4
Saharawi,1.4
"distance%=2.5987"
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1:CL30
Anatolia_BA,54.2
Levant_BA_North,24.8
Dutch,16.6
Sardinian,4.4
Saharawi,0
"distance%=2.3834"
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1:CL25
Anatolia_BA,62.8
Levant_BA_North,21.2
Dutch,16
Saharawi,0
Sardinian,0
Lucas
09-14-2018, 07:58 AM
Second Longobard cemetary, Szolad on Gedmatch, although from Pannonia, some of them are again extremely "red" (Italian like).
Z891841 SZ9
Z560831 SZ8
Z117741 SZ7
Z878724 SZ6
Z855720 SZ5
T963830 SZ45
T331118 SZ44
Z817510 SZ43
Z156535 SZ42
Z887416 SZ41
Z129947 SZ40
Z298465 SZ4
Z453129 SZ38
Z450920 SZ37
Z961044 SZ36
Z629675 SZ35 - low snps count
Z261020 SZ32
Z250394 SZ31 - low snps count
Z298008 SZ30
Z151393 SZ3
Z888816 SZ28
Z732151 SZ27
Z201314 SZ25
Z306476 SZ24
Z530540 SZ23
Z569816 SZ22
Z886825 SZ20 - low snps count
Z206864 SZ2
Z947904 SZ19
Z019700 SZ18
Z054110 SZ16
Z253968 SZ15
Z200736 SZ14
Z236800 SZ13
Z862010 SZ12
Z589316 SZ11
Z710290 SZ1
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