I'm still searching...

[Barreldriver]

for the belief system that clicks. I've tried Christianity, various forms, I've tried being without religion, I've attempted a sort of self worship, then nature worship, I went through the Nietzsche phase, and I've been on and off with studying ancient Germanic religions. My main issue arises #1 I'm a person of mixed Celto-Germanic ancestry, though the two peoples share many similarities both in the terms of cultural and physical anthropology and biodiversity, and in religion, they do have their respected differences, to which should I feel loyalty to? I feel loyalty to what I inherit, and inheritance is passed down typically from father to son, my father line is from Yorkshire and resided in the Southern United States for the past 200 years. This little spiel right here interested me greatly:http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/albion/albion3.html according to some of the latter links provided the South is deeply influenced by the Isle's, primarily that of the Northern backcountry, I believe Yorkshire would fall under that category if I'm not mistaken? I found though that this article informed me where alot of my family traditions originated, and family bonds originated, but it left me wanting in the religion zone, and left me wanting in determining whether I inherited something Celtic or Germanic in origin.

#2 There seems to be a huge lack of complete information, it is well known that the Christian's did one heck of a job of destroying the "heathen" past of Europe in a lot of cases, there is very little info out there in regards to the pre-Christian beliefs due to the "purging", the most info seems to come from Scandinavia and Iceland, but in it's own way that set of ancient beliefs has its differences, though slight from what I can see, they exist, from Insular and Continental beliefs, the main issue I've found when researching Insular pre-Christian ways is many of them are altered by the Christian Church, my copy of the mythical invasions of the Isle's and Briton and Gaelic myths have too many referrences to Christian figures and ways to be wholly untainted by the church, so what's the full story, and the untainted story? And as to what I call the Insular Germanic beliefs, Insular the context of being of the British Isle's, differ from the Continental and Scandinavian variants, so I'm just lost in this sea of what should I choose, what is the "right" path/version?

[Jägerstaffel]

Atheism.


:)

[Gooding]

Agnostic nature/ancestor worship :eek::p:D:) (with a Celto-Germanic-Latinate flair, of course :thumb001:)

[Ulf]

Agnostic Nietzschean Celto-Germanic Heathenry. ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=97



what should I choose, what is the "right" path/version?

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

Try it all until one feels right.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Who needs a religion/faith-belief system? Better off without it, and living your life by rational means.

[Ulf]

Who needs a religion/faith-belief system? Better off without it, and living your life by rational means.

I like to think myself a rational being.

http://derekstwistedmind.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/atheism.png?w=452&h=452

;);)

[Psychonaut]

I like to think myself a rational being.

http://derekstwistedmind.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/atheism.png?w=452&h=452

;);)

Just to be on the safe side (so you don't lose Pascal's Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager)) you should choose Christianity. It makes the most sense anyway.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3620/3326925251_883f113c6f_o.jpg

[/sarcasm] ...in case you didn't notice. ;)

[Lenny]

Who needs a religion/faith-belief system? Better off without it, and living your life by rational means.What is life without any belief in anything higher than oneself?

[Jägerstaffel]

What is life without any belief in anything higher than oneself?

Sensible?

:)

Kidding.

[Lyfing]

#1 I'm a person of mixed Celto-Germanic ancestry, though the two peoples share many similarities both in the terms of cultural and physical anthropology and biodiversity, and in religion, they do have their respected differences, to which should I feel loyalty to?

Hey raþbeorn,

Good questions. I too am of Celto-Germanic heritage. For years and years all I ever studied was Germanic Mythology and the like. With the exception of the Joseph Campbell I messed with. One of the things I learnt from him was to approach mythology from a perspective of “elementary” and “ethnic” ideas. The elementary being for the most part like archetypes which are of the common experience of humanity. Of the common experience of humanity pretty much means that those elementary ideas spring out of what all humans experience from infancy to old age. They could be innate or imprinted, whatever the case they are like instincts. The ethnic being how different cultures express the elementary symbolically to the inner parts of themselves for at-one-ment within a context that makes sense to them and with what they are familiar with. Just imagine it as if it’s a Hero’s Journey, the same one, happening in different places. It gets a little tricky separating the two and I tend to think the elementary changes through the ethnic..( I went on about it a little in this thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11917#post11917) )..

What I am getting at with all of that is that here lately I’ve been exploring Celtic Mythology. As I’ve done so I’ve constantly compared it with Germanic Mythology trying to find similarities, and I’ve felt the Germanic god/esses as being very familiar with me, to the point of not even feeling so much at home in with the Celtic. I can’t hardly even pronounce most of the names even. So the other day I was starring at the Gundestrup cauldron thinking about this stuff and it came to me that while I can find the “elementary” ideas within the two, that it is with the “ethnic” that is messing with me. Then was answered y/our question of “to which should I feel loyalty to?” for me with the notion that they are both excellent sets of symbols and that it’s really just the one one is most familiar with that strikes the ultimate chord. I picked the Germanic so long ago it’s burnt into my head and even with such understandings as the above I will always be loyal to them. But loyal ain’t the right word..it’s familiar. In other words one could probably just pick one, as if they were born into it, and it will work pretty much the same..there will be differences in the out-come of course though..so choose wisely and maybe one day you will be like Odin and drink of the mead and become a creative poet (/heathen..;)) with your own noble heart alone as the guide within.. your self sacrificed to your Self.. Here are Joseph Campbell’s last words in Creative Mythology..


The norms of myth, understood in the way rather of the “elementary ideas” than of the “ethnic”, recognized, as in the Domitilla Ceiling, through an intelligent “making use” not of one mythology only but of all the dead and set-fast symbologies of the past, will enable the individual to anticipate and activate in himself the centers of his own creative imagination, out of which his own myth and life-building “Yes because” may then unfold. But in the end, as in the case of Parzial, the guide within will be his own noble heart alone, and the guide without, the image of beauty, the radiance of divinity, that wakes in his heart amor: the deepest, inmost seed of his nature, consubstantial with the process of the All, “thus come.” And in this life-creative adventure the criterion of achievement will be, as in every one of the tales here reviewed, the courage to let go the past, with its truths, it’s goals, its dogmas of “meaning,” and its gifts: to die to the world and to come to birth from within.

Pages 677-678


#2...so I'm just lost in this sea of what should I choose, what is the "right" path/version?

Who knows..?? Grimm’s Teutonic Mythology and Rydberg’s Teutonic Mythology are pretty good attempts to figure it out. I like Rydberg’s ideas myself. It could be argued he seen a lot of “good” and “evil” though.

Later,
-Lyfing

[Brynhild]

For what it's worth, I'm a Polytheist, Celto/Germanic Heathen.

[Barreldriver]

Hey raþbeorn,

Good questions. I too am of Celto-Germanic heritage. For years and years all I ever studied was Germanic Mythology and the like. With the exception of the Joseph Campbell I messed with. One of the things I learnt from him was to approach mythology from a perspective of “elementary” and “ethnic” ideas. The elementary being for the most part like archetypes which are of the common experience of humanity. Of the common experience of humanity pretty much means that those elementary ideas spring out of what all humans experience from infancy to old age. They could be innate or imprinted, whatever the case they are like instincts. The ethnic being how different cultures express the elementary symbolically to the inner parts of themselves for at-one-ment within a context that makes sense to them and with what they are familiar with. Just imagine it as if it’s a Hero’s Journey, the same one, happening in different places. It gets a little tricky separating the two and I tend to think the elementary changes through the ethnic..( I went on about it a little in this thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11917#post11917) )..

What I am getting at with all of that is that here lately I’ve been exploring Celtic Mythology. As I’ve done so I’ve constantly compared it with Germanic Mythology trying to find similarities, and I’ve felt the Germanic god/esses as being very familiar with me, to the point of not even feeling so much at home in with the Celtic. I can’t hardly even pronounce most of the names even. So the other day I was starring at the Gundestrup cauldron thinking about this stuff and it came to me that while I can find the “elementary” ideas within the two, that it is with the “ethnic” that is messing with me. Then was answered y/our question of “to which should I feel loyalty to?” for me with the notion that they are both excellent sets of symbols and that it’s really just the one one is most familiar with that strikes the ultimate chord. I picked the Germanic so long ago it’s burnt into my head and even with such understandings as the above I will always be loyal to them. But loyal ain’t the right word..it’s familiar. In other words one could probably just pick one, as if they were born into it, and it will work pretty much the same..there will be differences in the out-come of course though..so choose wisely and maybe one day you will be like Odin and drink of the mead and become a creative poet (/heathen..;)) with your own noble heart alone as the guide within.. your self sacrificed to your Self.. Here are Joseph Campbell’s last words in Creative Mythology..





Who knows..?? Grimm’s Teutonic Mythology and Rydberg’s Teutonic Mythology are pretty good attempts to figure it out. I like Rydberg’s ideas myself. It could be argued he seen a lot of “good” and “evil” though.

Later,
-Lyfing

Thank you Lyfing, this was very hepful. Honestly I have to say I've always felt more drawn to the Germanic ways, I've always felt a connection to them, probably because my mother's family was Volksdeutch for a while lol. and I grew up with German tradition from my mother's family combined with the Northern Briton culture of my father's family that was brought to Appalachia and the Cumberland Gap by the ancestors of myself and many of the people of that region, I've been observing alot of Autosomal DNA plots and my ancestral regions in the British Isle's are heavily Norse influenced, especially where my main line is from, Yorkshire. The only thing that has kept me from expanding/growing in my beliefs has been the lack of people with common interest around me/the lack of "gathering" no one to celebrate with, and no one to tutor me properly in the ways, sort of imagine a Jedi Padawan without the master in a sense.

[Lyfing]

The only thing that has kept me from expanding/growing in my beliefs has been the lack of people with common interest around me/the lack of "gathering" no one to celebrate with, and no one to tutor me properly in the ways, sort of imagine a Jedi Padawan without the master in a sense.

Don't let any of that discourage you. I ain't never seen a real-life heathen, and I ain't never been to no gatherings. I just thought of an old joke.."ask a zebra if it's white with black stripes or black with white stripes..?"..if it's the former it will answer "I am what I am"..and if the latter.."I be what I be"..point is.."you is what you is"..and ain't no body got nothin' to do with it but you.

At the same time though, community is of the utmost importance. You said something about Nietzsche up there..well "the task is to breed an animal able to keep promises"..this has only to do with community..because it is those oaths kept that keep it eternally returning..;)

And about the tutor..it sounds like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth)..you probably know that ole' George Lucus liked Joseph Campbell's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell) ideas a lot..


The Road of Trials

Once past the threshold, the hero encounters a dream landscape of ambiguous and fluid forms. The hero is challenged to survive a succession of obstacles and, in so doing, amplifies his consciousness. The hero is helped covertly by the supernatural helper or may discover a benign power supporting him in his passage.

Anyhow he has much been my tutor in this here Heroic Journey of mine..For what it's worth..A few of his books can be downloaded here (http://www.josephcampbell.weebly.com)...

Later,
-Lyfing

[Ulf]

Who needs a religion/faith-belief system? Better off without it, and living your life by rational means.

This quote is for you, SwordoftheVistula.

“Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable.” HL Mencken

My reasoning tells me you are right, but if I was always a reasonable man I would not have nearly half the fun I do. :)

“We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.” HL Mencken

[Red Skull]

Atheism insists that there is no God, which is ridiculous because you can't prove that there is no God. And believing in a God is pretty much the same, because you can't prove that God does exist.

Agnosticism is the most reasonable bet. We will never know. This is why our pre-Christian ancestors worshipped more personal deities that represented important concepts/aspects of life. There was no institution of standardization, i.e. the Church.

[Jägerstaffel]

Atheism does NOT insist there is no god.

It is a neutral state of being WITHOUT theism.

There are two forms of atheism - agnostic atheism (weak atheism) - which means lack of godbelief based on lack of knowledge of it.

And there is gnostic atheism (strong atheism)- which is lack of godbelief by knowing there is no god.

The latter is the 'ridiculous' stance, but it is perfectly rational to be a weak atheist as it is the neutral state. Babies are weak atheists. Godbeliefs are taught, they are an addition. Atheism isn't necessarily an assertion that there is no god, it's just the lack of the belief. 'A' means without - it doesn't mean 'there is no'

[Psychonaut]

Atheism does NOT insist there is no god.

Yeah, the view that "atheism" is some kind of fundamentalist disbelief in God is a myth propagated by the Christian Right.

[Lenny]

Atheism does NOT insist there is no god.Yeah, the view that "atheism" is some kind of fundamentalist disbelief in God is a myth propagated by the Christian Right.I thought that's why the category "Agnostic" was invented (not caring/not knowing/no-position); whereas "Atheist" is The Belief In No God.



The best case for some kind of higher power-
Sir Fred Hoyle: "The chance that higher life forms might have emerged [with no creative hand] is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein."

[Jägerstaffel]

I thought that's why the category "Agnostic" was invented (not caring/not knowing/no-position); whereas "Atheist" is The Belief In No God.



The best case for some kind of higher power-
Sir Fred Hoyle: "The chance that higher life forms might have emerged [with no creative hand] is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein."

If you break the word down though atheism means without godbelief, rather than against godbelief or something of that sort. That would be antitheism.

I reject the term agnostic as I feel an agnostic is an atheist. They don't subscribe to any godbeliefs so they are without that belief - no matter what reason they lack the belief.

[Psychonaut]

I thought that's why the category "Agnostic" was invented (not caring/not knowing/no-position); whereas "Atheist" is The Belief In No God.



The best case for some kind of higher power-
Sir Fred Hoyle: "The chance that higher life forms might have emerged [with no creative hand] is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein."

Hmm...let me put it like this. Atheism doesn't necessarily posit a belief in the nonexistence of God, as it's quite foolish to wholeheartedly disbelieve in anything.

[Lenny]

The term "Antitheist" is not in common usage, though perhaps you two are right that it would be a better term for this concept (that people [mistakenly] call Atheism).