NEW Chios, Greece GEDMatch result -- very close to South Italian

[Sikeliot]

Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.27
2 West_Asian 17.36
3 West_Med 17.13
4 Atlantic 13.06
5 Baltic 7.92
6 North_Sea 7.81
7 Red_Sea 3.87
8 Sub-Saharan 0.28
9 Oceanian 0.28
10 Southeast_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.04
2 Central_Greek 6.02
3 East_Sicilian 6.73
4 Italian_Jewish 8.48
5 Sephardic_Jewish 8.81
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.9
7 Ashkenazi 9.44
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.67
9 West_Sicilian 9.91
10 Greek 11.07
11 Cyprian 11.73
12 Tunisian_Jewish 12.01
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.35
14 Libyan_Jewish 14.46
15 Tuscan 14.63
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.6
17 Turkish 17.06
18 Syrian 17.34
19 Bulgarian 18.92
20 Samaritan 19.08

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.8% South_Italian + 10.2% Assyrian @ 3.34
2 91.1% South_Italian + 8.9% Armenian @ 3.42
3 91.1% South_Italian + 8.9% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.44
4 91.2% South_Italian + 8.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.44
5 90.8% South_Italian + 9.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.46
6 91.6% South_Italian + 8.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.5
7 85.4% South_Italian + 14.6% Cyprian @ 3.55
8 93% South_Italian + 7% Kurdish @ 3.6
9 91.8% South_Italian + 8.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.63
10 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.64
11 96.2% South_Italian + 3.8% Abhkasian @ 3.72
12 95.8% South_Italian + 4.2% Georgian @ 3.72
13 91.6% South_Italian + 8.4% Turkish @ 3.73
14 94.4% South_Italian + 5.6% Iranian @ 3.74
15 93.6% South_Italian + 6.4% Azeri @ 3.76
16 93.5% South_Italian + 6.5% Samaritan @ 3.82
17 96.8% South_Italian + 3.2% North_Ossetian @ 3.84
18 96.6% South_Italian + 3.4% Adygei @ 3.84
19 96.4% South_Italian + 3.6% Kumyk @ 3.88
20 93.9% South_Italian + 6.1% Syrian @ 3.88


MDLP K23:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.67
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.11
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.56
4 Near_East 9.93
5 South_Central_Asian 7.75
6 North_African 4.66
7 South_Indian 1.17


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 4.447671
2 Italian_South_ @ 4.932337
3 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.152622
4 Romanian_Jew_ @ 5.477272
5 Greek_Athens_ @ 5.504259
6 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.674872
7 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 5.831588
8 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.865830
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.879694
10 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.706636
11 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.802528
12 Greek_ @ 6.900437
13 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.338099
14 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.381737
15 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 7.666999
16 French_Jew_ @ 7.717368
17 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.098755
18 Central_Greek_ @ 8.250425
19 Maltese_ @ 8.842815
20 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 9.682274

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi_ +50% Greek_Smyrna_ @ 2.390076

Dodecad K12b:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38
2 Atlantic_Med 25.64
3 North_European 13.94
4 Southwest_Asian 12.41
5 Gedrosia 6.77
6 Northwest_African 2.67
7 East_Asian 0.32
8 South_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 4.3
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.86
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.04
4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 5.38
5 Greek (Dodecad) 7.53
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 8.8
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.17
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 12.49
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 14.12
10 Cypriots (Behar) 15.01
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.07
12 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.49
13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.5
14 Turks (Behar) 19.17
15 Lebanese (Behar) 19.99
16 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 21.55
17 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 21.94
18 Druze (HGDP) 22.49
19 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.72
20 Syrians (Behar) 22.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.8% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.47
2 75.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.48
3 75.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.5% English (Dodecad) @ 1.49
4 76.1% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.9% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.53
5 75.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.3% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.57
6 76.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.5% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.59
7 76% Cypriots (Behar) + 24% British (Dodecad) @ 1.6
8 76.6% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.4% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.61
9 76.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.3% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.63
10 74.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 25.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.65
11 76.3% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.7% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.69
12 75% Cypriots (Behar) + 25% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.72
13 72.4% Cypriots (Behar) + 27.6% French (Dodecad) @ 2
14 88.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.02
15 86.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.7% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.08
16 72.4% Cypriots (Behar) + 27.6% French (HGDP) @ 2.15
17 51.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 48.4% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.16
18 61.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.4% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.2
19 88.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.2% Lezgins (Behar) @ 2.22
20 70.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.9% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.23

[brennus dux gallorum]

Along with ikariotes, chians are possibly the biggest outliers after rhodians

[Kaspias]

Do you have Thrace, Greece gedmatch results? But should be native to there. Because most of Thracian Greeks migrated from Anatolia.

[Sikeliot]

Along with ikariotes, chians are possibly the biggest outliers after rhodians

I have found that apart from some more mainland-shifted examples, the closest islands genetically to southern Italy are Ikaria, Chios, and Kalymnos. People tend to say Crete but the proportions actually match better with the eastern Aegean islands.

[FinalFlash]

Looks like an ordinary Greek result.

[Sikeliot]

Looks like an ordinary Greek result.

An ordinary islander yes. Not mainland.

[FinalFlash]

An ordinary islander yes. Not mainland.

Still Greek and very very likely looks typically Greek.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Still Greek and very very likely looks typically Greek.

I think you're one of the few on here who actually "gets it" lol. Cheers

[Sikeliot]

Still Greek and very very likely looks typically Greek.

So are you saying this person could genetically pass as mainland? I've yet to see anyone quite like this from there especially not in Thessaly or northward.

You realize the islands are a small portion of the total population right?

[FinalFlash]

So are you saying this person could genetically pass as mainland? I've yet to see anyone quite like this from there especially not in Thessaly or northward.

You realize the islands are a small portion of the total population right?

Yes but you do understand that genotype=/= phenotype, right? Just because your Greek sample is a cunt hair closer to a S. Italian than Greek doesn't mean that the person isnt going to look Greek. I've seen all types of Greek photos on this board and they mostly have that common denominator in terms of phenotypes. Differences between Islanders and mainlanders is overly exaggerated to the point where people are starting to believe as if they're of a different ethnic group.

Dont forget that genetic studies arent exactly 100% accurate. Tests are always updated and certain components that were masked by other components will eventually be revealed. I already saw a couple of updated Gedmatch results and they were noticeable different than their older results. Who is to say, a year or five years from now, there wont be more improvements made and new information discovered and old ones corrected?

[FinalFlash]

I think you're one of the few on here who actually "gets it" lol. Cheers

Yeah I dont get some people either. Sikeliot is alright but I just dont get this obsession with likening foreign populations to other foreign populations even if said populations are related genetically.

[Sikeliot]

Yes but you do understand that genotype=/= phenotype, right? Just because your Greek sample is a cunt hair closer to a S. Italian than Greek doesn't mean that the person isnt going to look Greek. I've seen all types of Greek photos on this board and they mostly have that common denominator in terms of phenotypes. Differences between Islanders and mainlanders is overly exaggerated to the point where people are starting to believe as if they're of a different ethnic group.

I'm not referring to phenotype but to genetics. This is a typical islander result that couldn't be mistaken for the result of a mainlander.

[FinalFlash]

I'm not referring to phenotype but to genetics. This is a typical islander result that couldn't be mistaken for the result of a mainlander.

Dont forget that genetic studies arent exactly 100% accurate. Tests are always updated and certain components that were masked by other components will eventually be revealed. I already saw a couple of updated Gedmatch results and they were noticeable different than their older results. Who is to say, a year or five years from now, there wont be more improvements made and new information discovered and old ones corrected?

[Sikeliot]

Dont forget that genetic studies arent exactly 100% accurate. Tests are always updated and certain components that were masked by other components will eventually be revealed. I already saw a couple of updated Gedmatch results and they were noticeable different than their older results. Who is to say, a year or five years from now, there wont be more improvements made and new information discovered and old ones corrected?

I don't think there will magically be a discovery of mainland Greeks plotting near southern Italy as a whole when so far this has been proven not to be the case.

[FinalFlash]

I don't think there will magically be a discovery of mainland Greeks plotting near southern Italy as a whole when so far this has been proven not to be the case.

It wont magically happen. Itll happen once they dig deeper and discover new information. The top match for your sample could end up being a Greek as opposed to a S. Italian. The distance between the top two for this sample isnt even remotely vast.

[Sikeliot]

It wont magically happen. Itll happen once they dig deeper and discover new information. The top match for your sample could end up being a Greek as opposed to a S. Italian. The distance between the top two for this sample isnt even remotely vast.

Central Greek above is not a full mainland sample but is a mixture of Athens and various islands.

[FinalFlash]

Central Greek above is not a full mainland sample but is a mixture of Athens and various islands.

Take a gander my friend. Noticeable differences in the result and the top 20 population matches

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?259338-*NEW-GEDmatch-Result-(Converted-23andme-v5-to-v3)

[Sikeliot]

Take a gander my friend. Noticeable differences in the result and the top 20 population matches

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?259338-*NEW-GEDmatch-Result-(Converted-23andme-v5-to-v3)

That just proved my point. The Albanian is closest to Thessalian Greeks (typical mainlanders) and further from South Italy and his result is how many mainland Greeks come out and it is nothing like the person from Chios I posted at all. This Greek from Chios is close to South Italians, and further from Thessaly by a noticeable amount.

[FinalFlash]

That just proved my point. The Albanian is closest to Thessalian Greeks (typical mainlanders) and further from South Italy and his result is how many mainland Greeks come out and it is nothing like the person from Chios I posted at all. This Greek from Chios is close to South Italians, and further from Thessaly by a noticeable amount.

And my point is that genetics are still flaky. How do you know your Chios sample wont land any type of Greek as number 1 in the top 20 with new updates?

Look at the updated Albanian sample again. W. Sicilian, c. Greek and e. Sicilian were closer to him than Serbs on the older result. The new one shows that the Serbs are actually closer than the aforementioned 3. These are new and updated distances of 2-3 which is quite noticeable.

Italian and Algerian Jews, as well as Moldvans were closer than Portuguese in the old result. The new top 20 doesn't have any Jewish population other than the Ashkenazi. And the Portuguese are slightly closer now than the Moldovan

[kleenex]

And my point is that genetics are still flaky. How do you know your Chios sample wont land any type of Greek as number 1 in the top 20 with new updates?

Look at the updated Albanian sample again. W. Sicilian, c. Greek and e. Sicilian were closer to him than Serbs on the older result. The new one shows that the Serbs are actually closer than the aforementioned 3. These are new and updated distances of 2-3 which is quite noticeable.

Italian and Algerian Jews, as well as Moldvans were closer than Portuguese in the old result. The new top 20 doesn't have any Jewish population other than the Ashkenazi. And the Portuguese are slightly closer now than the Moldovan

Here's a peer review genetic study conducted by actual scientists: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...ages-1.5489323
Greeks from the mainland are closer genetically to Albanians and other Southern Balkans than they are to Greek Islanders. My own genetic results have me plotting closer to Albanians, Bulgarians as well as Central/North Italians than to Greek Islanders

[Tauromachos]

Here's a peer review genetic study conducted by actual scientists: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...ages-1.5489323
Greeks from the mainland are closer genetically to Albanians and other Southern Balkans than they are to Greek Islanders. My own genetic results have me plotting closer to Albanians, Bulgarians as well as Central/North Italians than to Greek Islanders

First of all this is nothing else than a very vague desciption published in a Jewish newspaper ,of the original Sarno study

The only South Balkans considered in this study were Mainland Greece and Albania.

Balkan people like Serbs,Croats,Montenegrins and Romanians even don't cluster closer to Mainland Greeks also
not in that study.

In that study there was only a South Balkan cluster in which Albanians and one part of Mainland Greeks fell
and then there were some South Italian/Islands clusters in which one certain Sicilian groups"Trapani",Arbereshe"South Italian Arvanites"
Apulians and the other part of Mainland Greeks and one part of Aegean Islanders fell

The rest of Aegeans and South Italians fell into a third distinct cluster

Also the Mainland Greek samples there were mainly from Thessaloniki and Macedonia from what some people claimed

[Sikeliot]

First of all this is nothing else than a very vague desciption published in a Jewish newspaper ,of the original Sarno study

The only South Balkans considered in this study were Mainland Greece and Albania.

Balkan people like Serbs,Croats,Montenegrins and Romanians even don't cluster closer to Mainland Greeks also
not in that study.

In that study there was only a South Balkan cluster in which Albanians and one part of Mainland Greeks fell
and then there were some South Italian/Islands clusters in which one certain Sicilian groups"Trapani",Arbereshe"South Italian Arvanites"
Apulians and the other part of Mainland Greeks and one part of Aegean Islanders fell

The rest of Aegeans and South Italians fell into a third distinct cluster

Also the Mainland Greek samples there were mainly from Thessaloniki and Macedonia from what some people claimed



Here's a peer review genetic study conducted by actual scientists: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...ages-1.5489323
Greeks from the mainland are closer genetically to Albanians and other Southern Balkans than they are to Greek Islanders. My own genetic results have me plotting closer to Albanians, Bulgarians as well as Central/North Italians than to Greek Islanders


This study is Sarno et al, the one that has three clusters of southern Italians and Greeks:

1. A Mainland Greece/ALbania cluster showing evidence of Slavic input but distinct from Italians and Balkan Slavs both,

2. A Trapani/Apulia cluster consisting of the southernmost plotting mainland Greeks and the northernmost plotting South Italians and Aegean islanders

3. A Sicilian/Calabrian cluster shared also with most Dodecanese and Cretan Greeks

Essentially there is no overlap between East-Central Sicily/Calabria with mainland Greece. HOWEVER, there is overlap between some Aegean islanders, Trapani, Apulia, and the southernmost mainland Greeks who all converge.

It is also known that when Slavs invaded the Peloponnese, many Peloponnesians relocated to southern Italy, so this also may have been what is meant by the "admixture event" in Apulia and Trapani signaling recent South Balkan input.

[Tauromachos]

This study is Sarno et al, the one that has three clusters of southern Italians and Greeks:

1. A Mainland Greece/ALbania cluster showing evidence of Slavic input but distinct from Italians and Balkan Slavs both,

Please be precise
The only Italians that were considered there were South Italians/Sicilians



2. A Trapani/Apulia cluster consisting of the southernmost plotting mainland Greeks and the northernmost plotting South Italians and Aegean islanders

3. A Sicilian/Calabrian cluster shared also with most Dodecanese and Cretan Greeks

Essentially there is no overlap between East-Central Sicily/Calabria with mainland Greece. HOWEVER, there is overlap between some Aegean islanders, Trapani, Apulia, and the southernmost mainland Greeks who all converge.
.

Ok

[FinalFlash]

Here's a peer review genetic study conducted by actual scientists: https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...ages-1.5489323
Greeks from the mainland are closer genetically to Albanians and other Southern Balkans than they are to Greek Islanders. My own genetic results have me plotting closer to Albanians, Bulgarians as well as Central/North Italians than to Greek Islanders

Then there probably arent enough Greek samples if that's the case. If this is true, then who exactly is a real Greek? You also have to consider the possibilities that some submissions can be outliers. I cant imagine a mainland Greek being more similar to a Balkanite over other Greeks.

[kleenex]

First of all this is nothing else than a very vague desciption published in a Jewish newspaper ,of the original Sarno study

The only South Balkans considered in this study were Mainland Greece and Albania.

Balkan people like Serbs,Croats,Montenegrins and Romanians even don't cluster closer to Mainland Greeks also
not in that study.

In that study there was only a South Balkan cluster in which Albanians and one part of Mainland Greeks fell
and then there were some South Italian/Islands clusters in which one certain Sicilian groups"Trapani",Arbereshe"South Italian Arvanites"
Apulians and the other part of Mainland Greeks and one part of Aegean Islanders fell

The rest of Aegeans and South Italians fell into a third distinct cluster

Also the Mainland Greek samples there were mainly from Thessaloniki and Macedonia from what some people claimed

I'm sorry but mainland Greeks are "way" closer to the Balkans than Aegean Islands. How many times do I need to show you gedmatch results? Why do you get so flustered by facts? What other evidence do you need? By the way I've seen you quoting this study in the past.

[FinalFlash]

I'm sorry but mainland Greeks are "way" closer to the Balkans than Aegean Islands. How many times do I need to show you gedmatch results? Why do you get so flustered by facts? What other evidence do you need? By the way I've seen you quoting this study in the past.

I think the more pertinent question is, how are you so close to Balkanites? Dont you want to be close to Greeks before anyone else?

[Tauromachos]

...I cant imagine a mainland Greek being more similar to a Balkanite over other Greeks.

Yeah and he is not, generaly speaking

Also from all previous studies it turned out that all of Greeks which includes Mainlanders are genetically closer to Italians than to Balkanians

Italians doesn't mean South Italy/Sicily only

If you read the Sarno study carefully it talks about two slightly differentiated clusters in South East Europe
"the South Balkan and South Italian"

And the differences are mainly due to medieval migration patterns without the latter the Mainland Greeks would be in the same
cluster with South Italians and Islanders

[Tauromachos]

I'm sorry but mainland Greeks are "way" closer to the Balkans than Aegean Islands.

They are not closer to Balkans

Your statement is wrong

[FinalFlash]

Yeah and he is not, generaly speaking

Also from all previous studies it turned out that all of Greeks which includes Mainlanders are genetically closer to Italians than to Balkanians

Italians doesn't mean South Italy/Sicily only

If you read the Sarno study carefully it talks about two slightly differentiated clusters in South East Europe
"the South Balkan and South Italian"

And the differences are mainly due to medieval migration patterns without the latter the Mainland Greeks would be in the same
cluster with South Italians and Islanders

So Northern Greeks are essentially mixed and further removed from real Greeks while southern Greeks have remained true to their heritage?

[Tauromachos]

So Northern Greeks are essentially mixed and further removed from real Greeks while southern Greeks have remained true to their heritage?

Dude sorry i'm tired of this discussion and i'm not going to comment more on that

Northern Greeks are the same Greek as any other Greeks are

Also mixing with someone doesn't make people less Greek,Armenian or anything..

Only in a retarded racist forum like this one

[kleenex]

I think the more pertinent question is, how are you so close to Balkanites? Dont you want to be close to Greeks before anyone else?

I'm trying to be objective. You have to understand the history of Greece from a genetic point of view. Mainlanders have Slavic admixture which shifts them genetically North. Islanders have minimal Slavic input which positions them SE of the mainland. It is what it is. It has nothing to do with who I "personally" relate to from a cultural point of view. Italians are equally distinct (regionally and genetically speaking) as Greeks. Are Armenians?

[FinalFlash]

I'm trying to be objective. You have to understand the history of Greece from a genetic point of view. Mainlanders have Slavic admixture which shifts them genetically North. Islanders have minimal Slavic input which positions them SE of the mainland. It is what it is. It has nothing to do with who I "personally" relate to from a cultural point of view. Italians are equally distinct (regionally and genetically speaking) as Greeks. Are Armenians?

Yeah Armenians do portray some genetic variations but what we all have in common is that we are related to other Armenians before anyone else really. I'm surprised an ancient and seemingly homogenous ethnicity like yours has this much variation tbh. I'm not counting Cypriots and Pontians as true Greeks strictly in the genetic sense of course.

[Tauromachos]

Yeah Armenians do portray some genetic variations but what we all have in common is that we are related to other Armenians before anyone else really. I'm surprised an ancient and seemingly homogenous ethnicity like yours has this much variation tbh.

They don't have that much variation

70% of modern Greeks ancestry comes roughly from a Mycanaean"Bronze Age source"

What you said applies to Armenians does apply to Greeks essentialy as well
Every Greek group is more related to another Greek group than to a Non Greek group.

An Albanian Tosk may be closer to a Thessalian than a Cretan is but he certainly not closer than an Epirote
is.

This is what i mean

[Sikeliot]

And the differences are mainly due to medieval migration patterns without the latter the Mainland Greeks would be in the same
cluster with South Italians and Islanders


They may end up in the Apulian/Trapani cluster but they do not have enough Near Eastern to end up in the Sicily/Calabria one.

[Tauromachos]

They may end up in the Apulian/Trapani cluster but they do not have enough Near Eastern to end up in the Sicily/Calabria one.

They wouldn't be in a different cluster than the Greek Islanders thats what the study itself says

Alos the study says the so called South Balkan and the South/Italian cluster are slightly different not enormous which concurs
with what i explained above

[Sikeliot]

They wouldn't be in a different cluster than the Greek Islanders thats what the study itself says

Alos the study says the so called South Balkan and the South/Italian cluster are slightly different not enormous which concurs
with what i explained above

Well some Aegean islanders are in the Apulia cluster. So maybe everyone in the East-Central Sicily/Calabria cluster are those who have excess Near Eastern, while the Trapani/Apulia cluster is where southern Italians and Greeks naturally "should" be if not admixed.