Balkan solutions?

[Loki]

I'm speculating here, not to be taken too seriously. Just want to gather some information on how Balkanoids think about this all. :) Thread is not intended to become a fight, let's discuss in an orderly manner.

How about Balkan states largely defined along ethnic lines? It would make sense to me. A few possibilities:

Montenegro dissolved. The 'Montenegrins' (who are technically none other than ethnic Serbs) join Serbia into a larger Serbian state. Thus, Serbia now has a coastal area too. There is no point in arguing that Montenegrins are ethnically different from Serbs in Serbia. It's a myth.

The small south-eastern part of current Montenegro, which is ethnic Albanian, joins Albania.

Macedonia also divides roughly among ethnic lines. Albanian chunk (northwest) joins Albania. The rest remains as an independent Macedonian country.

Kosovo is dissolved and divided among ethnic majority lines between Serbia and Albania. Small ethnic pockets are amicably resolved via democratic referendum.

More ideas? :)

[Lithium]

I can't talk about the others countries but I am sure that there is no such thing as Macedonian ethnicity. They don't have separated language nor real history. The whole ethnicity is created for political achievements.

[Ushtari]

Pretty interesting indeed, but if you have read what i wrote in this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22801)thread, you would know that Natural Albania right now is occupied by Slavs and Greeks(though the Greek part is now lost due to heavy assimilation politics). As for Kosovo, a division is not an option because the Serbs who live there today are colonizers from early 1900's. Kosovo will most probably merge with Albania in a very near future, and once that is done, we are heading for Ilirida(now occupied by FYROMANS).

Also, you are wrong when you say that Montenegrins are nothing by Serbs. Many Montenegrins descend from the Albanian tribes "Kuqi", "Piperi" etc.

Also, this is what Carleton Coon himself said about them.

"The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe, live on a barren limestone mountain upland, where they, for centuries, succeeded in maintainingnheir Christianity and their freedom while surrounded by the Turks. They, like the northern Albanians, preserve their old exogamous clan organization, and their clan loyalties and feuds. They are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the cultural continuity between the two peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion."
http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/12-12.htm

[Loki]

Pretty interesting indeed, but if you have read what i wrote in this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22801)thread, you would know that Natural Albania right now is occupied by Slavs and Greeks(though the Greek part is now lost due to heavy assimilation politics).

There is a difference between a realistic solution, and wishful thinking. You can't force people in this day and age to conform to ethno-political ideas against their will and think there will be a lasting, peaceful solution. Also, "Natural Albania" won't happen by force.

The best approach is to work with where populations currently reside. The era of large population movements in Europe belongs buried with WW2. You can't tell Slavs: "hey, get out of here, you're on my territory". For that reason, work with what you've got - and you have plenty. Areas where ethnic Albanians are in a majority. A little is better than nothing at all. And if people become too greedy, they eventually lose it all. Look at Hitler's Germany as an example.

[Ushtari]

There is a difference between a realistic solution, and wishful thinking. You can't force people in this day and age to conform to ethno-political ideas against their will and think there will be a lasting, peaceful solution. Also, "Natural Albania" won't happen by force.

The best approach is to work with where populations currently reside. The era of large population movements in Europe belongs buried with WW2. You can't tell Slavs: "hey, get out of here, you're on my territory". For that reason, work with what you've got - and you have plenty. Areas where ethnic Albanians are in a majority. A little is better than nothing at all. And if people become too greedy, they eventually lose it all. Look at Hitler's Germany as an example.
I understand your point, but no one is forcing them to live there, if they dont like it they can move to Serbia. The Serbs in Kosova have very strong rights in Kosova's social, political and economic institutions. The only problem is that the Serbs do not take advantage of this, since they expose themselves to self-isolation to avoid having to integrate into the new Republic of Kosova, this is a fact. And the fact that Serbia encourages Serbs to this is another very unfortunate fact that leads to the Serbs in Kosova are constantly living in their own little alternate reality in the northern part.

[Loki]

I understand your point, but no one is forcing them to live there, if they dont like it they can move to Serbia.

So from this I gather you regard historical boundaries as more important than current settlements. It's a problematic approach that almost never works in modern times - certainly not in Europe. If Serbs are in a majority in an area, you can't claim the territory. No more than Germans today can claim back Silesia and Pommerania and Danzig. It's not going to happen, even though it used to be German territory. Now only Poles live there.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I would rather go for population exchanges to refine the borders over defining borders completely on ethnic lines. I expanded on this a quite bit in the Kroatisch section.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25302

Macedonia is an entirely different problem one created by Tito, Stalin and Dimitrov. They wanted a Greater Yugoslavia (primarily propagated by Tito) that also included all of Macedonia and by claiming and creating Macedonians as a Slavic ethnic group they thought they'd have grounds to take Macedonia proper from Greece. That plan fell apart and has been left in limbo ever since after the Tito-Stalin split.


Macedonia also divides roughly among ethnic lines. Albanian chunk (northwest) joins Albania. The rest remains as an independent Macedonian country. This is pretty ridiculous as that piece of territory has been long part of Serbian and Bulgarian histories forged in blood and tears. To give it away to Shiptars who never fought for the land is the very definition of surrender.


Kosovo is dissolved and divided among ethnic majority lines between Serbia and Albania. Small ethnic pockets are amicably resolved via democratic referendum.Why? Because NATO stands guard for the Shiptars who do not even have the military capability to defeat our army? Let us fight for Kosovo and decide for ourselves not NATO.



More ideas? :)Northern Epirus should go to Greece as it has a sizable Greek population and has been long part of Greek history through men like Pyrrhus or more recently, the Despotate of Epirus.

Bosnia should be completely dissolved and partitioned fairly between Serbia and Croatia. The remaining Muslims are welcome to stay or request for free plane tickets to Turkey.

There's also the issue of Eastern Thrace being in non-European hands.

[Ushtari]

So from this I gather you regard historical boundaries as more important than current settlements. It's a problematic approach that almost never works in modern times - certainly not in Europe. If Serbs are in a majority in an area, you can't claim the territory. No more than Germans today can claim back Silesia and Pommerania and Danzig. It's not going to happen, even though it used to be German territory. Now only Poles live there.
Again, the Serbs in kosovo are recent immigrants and the northern part of kosovo its not only inhabited with Serbs, but Albanians also. Thus they have no right to the area, especially given they occupied it.


This is pretty ridiculous as that piece of territory has been long part of Serbian and Bulgarian histories forged in blood and tears. To give it away to Shiptars who never fought for the land is the very definition of surrender.
Albanians are the original inhabitants, and ilirida was an Albanian province during ottoman empire, until you Slavs occupied it once the Turk left.


Why? Because NATO stands guard for the Shiptars who do not even have the military capability to defeat our army? Let us fight for Kosovo and decide for ourselves not NATO.
So you think its perfectly ok if Germany decided to occupy vojvodina now and if they win against you, militarily, you have no problem in them having it?:coffee:

Again:

- Kosovo has been Albanian territory since antiquity.
- Kosovo has been Albanian majority, the last 300 years.
- Kosovo is now an Albanian majority, over 90%.
- Kosovo's independence does not break international law, according to an international court
- Kosovo's population have several years before the war, voted for independence in which 99.7% were for independence.
- The Serbian government has repeatedly carried out ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Albanian population, most recently from 1998 to 1999.
- The Serbian regime terrorized the Albanian population from that they removed the autonomy of Kosovo until the end of the war. They kicked all the Albanians from the public sector, took away Albanian as an official language, banned Albanians from studying at university and all the cultural freedoms and rights were removed, imprisoned people, then accused them of various crimes in the Serbian media that they had never been guilty of , introduced apartheid society, etc.


Northern Epirus should go to Greece as it has a sizable Greek population and has been long part of Greek history through men like Pyrrhus or more recently, the Despotate of Epirus.
http://i55.tinypic.com/ous7wo.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2uf6bgy.jpg

[Loki]

Epirotes were Greeks, though. I don't know if all hold this opinion, but Dienekes claims that the high incidence of E-V13 among Albanians is because of ancient Greek settlement and a subsequent founder effect.

[Ushtari]

Epirotes were Greeks, though. I don't know if all hold this opinion, but Dienekes claims that the high incidence of E-V13 among Albanians is because of ancient Greek settlement and a subsequent founder effect.
Considering our relations with Greeks, i wouldn't rely to much on the words of Dienekes. Besides, there is no prof of epirotes being Greeks.

[Loki]

Considering our relations with Greeks, i wouldn't rely to much on the words of Dienekes. Besides, there is no prof of epirotes being Greeks.

Ancient Greeks did colonize a large part of the Balkan, though. They were the dominant culture in the region for thousands of years - and therefore could be expected to have had a lot of influence. Greeks and Albanians actually have a lot in common historically. :)

[Heretik]

I cannot emphasize more; redrawing boundaries in these lands is not only dangerous for the Balkan region but for the whole Europe. Leave things as they are...

[poiuytrewq0987]

Again, the Serbs in kosovo are recent immigrants and the northern part of kosovo its not only inhabited with Serbs, but Albanians also. Thus they have no right to the area, especially given they occupied it.

The Albanian identity didn't even exist on a grand scale back then. The Serbs came from White Serbia and what did we do with Kosovo? We colonized it, we built it, and thus it's ours now not yours. Just like South Africa was colonized by Afrikaners who built South Africa to what it is today.


Albanians are the original inhabitants, and ilirida was an Albanian province during ottoman empire, until you Slavs occupied it once the Turk left.
Ooh, ooh, original inhabitants! Who gives a damn who was the first ones there? The Greeks conquered parts of Illyria, completely by Romans and later Slavs. The modern Albanian identity only came into existence after the decline of the Eastern Roman Empire. On the other hand, Modern Greeks can claim to be related to ancient Greeks because there was a Greek identity back then, solid; unlike ancient inhabitants of Illyria who were largely made up of varying tribes.


So you think its perfectly ok if Germany decided to occupy vojvodina now and if they win against you, militarily, you have no problem in them having it?:coffee:Except Vojvodina has never been part of Germany whereas Kosovo has been part of our hearts and souls since time immemorial.

[Ushtari]

The Albanian identity didn't even exist on a grand scale back then. The Serbs came from White Serbia and what did we do with Kosovo? We colonized it, we built it, and thus it's ours now not yours. Just like South Africa was colonized by Afrikaners who built South Africa to what it is today.
Identity is based on language, traditions and culture, thus the Albanian/illyrian identity DID exist back then. And by your logic, kosovo belongs to Turks since they have ruled Kosovo longer then you.


Ooh, ooh, original inhabitants! Who gives a damn who was the first ones there? The Greeks conquered parts of Illyria, completely by Romans and later Slavs. The modern Albanian identity only came into existence after the decline of the Eastern Roman Empire.
Again, language, traditions and culture forms an identity. Im not less illyrian/albanian if i start to call myself Arnaut all of a sudden. And as i said, the areas you are occupying right now where Albanian provinces during ottoman empire.


Except Vojvodina has never been part of Germany whereas Kosovo has been part of our hearts and souls since time immemorial.
I dont see the difference, you Serbs migrated there in late 1200's, occupied it for 250 years, until the turks came and ruled it for 500 years. Then once they left, you occupied it again until we took it back

And no, kosovo is not the heart of Serbia, remember (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25139)?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Identity is based on language, traditions and culture, thus the Albanian/illyrian identity DID exist back then. And by your logic, kosovo belongs to Turks since they have ruled Kosovo longer then you.

No, it didn't. It's laughable to even think Albanian identity, language, customs, etc were the same in ancient Illyria as they are today. LOL...


Again, language, traditions and culture forms an identity. Im not less illyrian/albanian if i start to call myself Arnaut all of a sudden. And as i said, the areas you are occupying right now where Albanian provinces during ottoman empire. Oo, if a Bulgarian calls himself Thracian... I suppose he will magically have the rights to all of Thrace now.


I dont see the difference, you Serbs migrated there in late 1200's, occupied it for 250 years, until the turks came and ruled it for 500 years. Then once they left, you occupied it again until we took it back

And no, kosovo is not the heart of Serbia, remember (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25139)?Sure... go ahead and live in your Shiptary fairyland but too bad in reality Albania is a shit country with a shit miltiary once NATO falls apart... reckoning will be hell. :thumb001:

[Ushtari]

No, it didn't. It's laughable to even think Albanian identity, language, customs, etc were the same in ancient Illyria as they are today. LOL...
Damn you really start to remind me of that Monolith dude...

The Albanian language, traditions and culture descend from that of Illyrians.


Oo, if a Bulgarian calls himself Thracian... I suppose he will magically have the rights to all of Thrace now.
We only require the lands wich you Slavs have occupied from us, wich today is inhabited with Albanians.

Besides, Bulgarians are Slavs.


Sure... go ahead and live in your Shiptary fairyland but too bad in reality Albania is a shit country with a shit miltiary once NATO falls apart... reckoning will be hell. :thumb001:
I thought i made it clear wich the shittiest country in Europe is in this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25280) thread

[poiuytrewq0987]

Damn you really start to remind me of that Monolith dude...

The Albanian language, traditions and culture descend from that of Illyrians.


And pigs can fly too.


We only require the lands wich you Slavs have occupied from us, wich today is inhabited with Albanians.
LOL... there was no Albanian state back then that controlled such lands and thus they were fair game. Live with it.


Besides, Bulgarians are Slavs.
No, they are Thracians with Slavic influences.


I thought i made it clear wich the shittiest country in Europe is in this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25280) threadHahaha... I think 99.9% of Europe don't have the same opinion as yours.

[Ushtari]

And pigs can fly too.
Do you have any source wich contradicts my statement?


LOL... there was no Albanian state back then that controlled such lands and thus they were fair game. Live with it.
Please read this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22801) thread again.




No, they are Thracians with Slavic influences.
Where is those thracian influences in their language?


Hahaha... I think 99.9% of Europe don't have the same opinion as yours.
Opinions? those things i listed are pure facts.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Do you have any source wich contradicts my statement?

I'm not going to waste my time looking on the net to find links that contradicts your fantasy. If I say pigs can fly then it must be true.



Please read this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22801) thread again.


I'm not going to read any of your propaganda posts.



Where is those thracian influences in their language?

You might want to reobserve that statement. :thumb001:



Opinions? those things i listed are pure facts.

Facts in your world, sure.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Just Hellenize the Balkans and be done with it. :coffee:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2554/hellenicbalkans2.png

[Ushtari]

I'm not going to waste my time looking on the net to find links that contradicts your fantasy. If I say pigs can fly then it must be true.
So you dont have any source wich contradicts my statements? how can you then claim my statements are fantasy?


I'm not going to read any of your propaganda posts.
You know what the difference between you and me is? im able to back my statements with impartial sources, while you cant.


You might want to reobserve that statement. :thumb001:
https://static.flashback.org/img/smilies2/whoco5.gif



Facts in your world, sure.
Im afraid you are a part of that world.

lets go through some of those statements wich we didn't discuss last time, shall we?

Population "growth" in Serbia 1999-2009

1999: -29222
2000: -30278
2001: -20573
2002: -24684
2003: -24921
2004: -26134
2005: -34591
2006: -31887
2007: -34703
2008: -33628
2009: -33701
http://webrzs.stat.gov.rs/axd/en/drugastrana.php?Sifra=0013&izbor=odel&tab=1


SWEDISH SOURCE

Kvinnor har en svag roll i ett patriarkalt system som det serbiska. Arbetslösheten är cirka 30 procent högre för kvinnor än för män, lönerna 15 procent lägre. Våld i hemmen och människohandel, som är utbredda problem i Serbien, drabbar kvinnorna mest.

En halv miljon ungdomar lämnade landet under 90-talet. Lägg samman det med en negativ befolkningstillväxt, och Serbien hamnar på femte plats i världen vad gäller andelen äldre i befolkningen
http://www.sida.se/Svenska/Lander--regioner/Europa/Serbien/Utvecklingen-i-Serbien/

Further


Between 1,300 and 1,400 people kill themselves in Serbia every year, or four people every day, Borba daily reported on Friday. Out of them, 1,000 are men


The latest survey by Serbia’s public health institute, ordered by the Health Ministry, showed that every second person in Serbia suffers at least one symptom of depression. More than half, 55.8 percent, of the Serbian population feel nervousness, depression, sadness, exhaustion, and tiredness. Only 4.4 percent said they felt good.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/half-of-serbs-depressed-many-suicidal

Regarding IQ


Previous studies have found the mean IQs for countries in the Balkans such as Serbia, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, and Turkey range from 89 to 94. This is lower than the mean IQ of 100 for other European countries. To examine this issue further, we tested 608 17–65-year-olds (418 males; 190 females) from four different communities in the Republic of Serbia over a two-year period using the Raven’s Standard Progressive Matrices. Analyses showed that an average of 48 of the 60 matrices was solved (SD = 10), which is at the 31st percentile on the 1993 American standardization, equivalent to an IQ of 93. If an adjustment is made for the increase in American norms of two IQ points a decade from the 1993 standardization to the date of the study (2007 = 14 years), the Serbian IQ is reduced to 90. If a further reduction is made of two IQ points because the American IQ is 98 due to the inclusion of African Americans with a mean IQ of 85, the final best estimate of the Serbian IQ is 88. There were no significant differences between Muslims and Christians or males and females.
http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/2009%20PAID%20(Cvorovic).pdf

A negative population growth and an old population which is shown in the sources. You old population is one of the oldest in the world, has also led to a large part of the Serbian women who now have reached the age of infertile, ie they are not able to bear children. Add to that the high suicide rates in Serbia! furthermore a majority of the Serb population is suffering from depression!

Well, what can I say? i have got a completely different view of the future of Serbia, and its very negative, least to say. It seems that the Serbs are in the process of destroy themselves to the benefit for Serbia's neighbors, because we avoid future wars and devastation.

[poiuytrewq0987]

No, no need to prove you wrong when I already know what is true and what's not. Your claims on Kosovo is based on distant Illyrian fantasies Shiptars get high on everyday.

Yes, Serbia has its problems, not exactly unique to our country. What's your point? You like to highlight our problems and ignore the problems of your country. Pathetic but understandable as I wouldn't want to come to terms with a Muslim-infested hellhole like Shiptaria.

[Ushtari]

No, no need to prove you wrong when I already know what is true and what's not.
Interesting, but how can you know its true without reading anything about it?

Apart from that, i have already provided impartial academic studies, claiming Albanians ARE descendants from illyrians, most probably.


Your claims on Kosovo is based on distant Illyrian fantasies Shiptars get high on everyday.
Tell that to all those historians/linguists who have come to these conclusions.


Yes, Serbia has its problems, not exactly unique to our country. What's your point? You like to highlight our problems and ignore the problems of your country. Pathetic but understandable as I wouldn't want to come to terms with a Muslim-infested hellhole like Shiptaria.
No, Serbia is in a class of its own.

[Wyn]

Tell that to all those historians/linguists who have come to these conclusions.

What linguists have concluded (i.e. are certain) that Albanian is descended from Illyrian? :confused: What of the 'historians/linguists' that maintain that there is insufficient data to draw conclusions regarding Illyrian itself?

[Pallantides]

http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/ak47.jpg

[Ushtari]

What linguists have concluded (i.e. are certain) that Albanian is descended from Illyrian? :confused: What of the 'historians/linguists' that maintain that there is insufficient data to draw conclusions regarding Illyrian itself?



Apart from that, i have already provided impartial academic studies, claiming Albanians are descendants from illyrians, most probably.

[Heretik]

http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/ak47.jpg

I don't know how you Scandinavians deal with your problems but we don't use those anymore.

VHS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS_assault_rifle)

[Pallantides]

I don't know how you Scandinavians deal with your problems but we don't use those anymore.

VHS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS_assault_rifle)

This is how we deal with our problems
http://mizzmandy.blogg.se/images/2008/kram_18742741.gif

[Wyn]

...

I can read, Ush. ;) You spoke of conclusions made by historians/linguists regarding 'Illyrian fantasies.' I took this to mean that linguists have concluded that there is an Albanian-Illyrian connexion.

Not that 'most probably' would even be an appropriate summary of linguistic opinion.


... not a single verifiable inscription has survived written in the Illyrian language ... The modern Albanian language, it has been conjectured, is descended directly from ancient Illyrian ... Its possible affiliation with the scantily attested Illyrian, though not unreasonable in historical and linguistic grounds, can be considered little more than conjecture barring the discovery of additional Illyrian evidence.

Source. (http://books.google.com/books?id=aPEENAEp938C&pg=PA8&dq=albanian+language+%22illyrian%22&hl=en&ei=YsqhTcTfHcKu8gPO7O2oAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=albanian%20language%20illyrian&f=false)

[Don Brick]

This is how we deal with our problems
http://mizzmandy.blogg.se/images/2008/kram_18742741.gif

http://matti.tuottavamaa.org/varpikkaat/maaott5000.JPG

Or just have a nice competition for chicks to run at and battle it out that way. :thumb001:

[Heretik]

This is how we deal with our problems
http://mizzmandy.blogg.se/images/2008/kram_18742741.gif

Group animal sex? :eek: :dunno: :D

[Ushtari]

I can read, Ush. ;) You spoke of conclusions made by linguists regarding 'Illyrian fantasies.' I took this to mean that linguists have concluded that there is an Albanian-Illyrian connexion.

Not that 'most probably' would even be an appropriate summary of linguistic opinion.

The Albanian-illyrian connection is not only based on linguistic grounds, but on archeological ones to. And we do indeed have very little information about illyrian and thats why its still being discussed whether Albanian is developed from Illyrian or Dacian/thracian. But if we take all these things into account, Albanian is indeed most probably developed from illyrian.

[Wyn]

But if we take all these things into account, Albanian is indeed most probably developed from illyrian.

This probably - or definitely - isn't worth my time, but I hope you realise how ludicrous this sounds. You say "most probably" while a professor at the State University of New York whose work is published by the Cambridge University Press writes off such things as "little more than conjecture."

Wutevs. :cool:

[Curtis24]

I have only the most cursory understanding of what goes on in the Balkans, but my opinion is just to let them fight it out amongst themselves, and the winners can set the borders. No peacekeepers. This is afterall how the borders of the rest of Europe were formed back in the Middle Ages...

[Ushtari]

This probably - or definitely - isn't worth my time, but I hope you realise how ludicrous this sounds. You say "most probably" while a professor at the State University of New York whose work is published by the Cambridge University Press writes off such things as "little more than conjecture."

Wutevs. :cool:
As i said, its still being discussed whether Albanian is developed from Illyrian, Thracian or Dacian. There is NO modern serious scholar who believe Albanian has its origin outside the Balkans, wich i feel your little agenda here is.
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6052/books2r.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=XFtbEd1ojBsC&lpg=PP1&dq=a%20grammar%20of%20modern%20indo%20european&pg=PA89#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://i51.tinypic.com/li002.jpg
"A grammar of modern Indo-European: language and culture, writing ... - Page 78"

Further:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8906/booken9.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=5pCBRsfJMv8C&lpg=PP1&dq=ancient%20indo%20european%20dialects&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false

Further:
http://i54.tinypic.com/dwrnz6.jpg
"Mountains of Giants: A Racial and Cultural Study of the North Albanian Mountain Ghegs - Carleton S Coon, p. 40"

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8030/skallarillyrer2.jpg
"Mountains of Giants: A Racial and Cultural Study of the North Albanian Mountain Ghegs - Carleton S Coon, p. 62"

[Wyn]

As i said, its still being discussed whether Albanian is developed from Illyrian, Thracian or Dacian.

And yet you speak of conclusions and most probablies. ;)


There is NO modern serious scholar who believe Albanian has its origin outside the Balkans wich i feel your little agenda here is.

That isn't my agenda at all. I really and truly do not care where your language originated.

In fact you can't possibly have felt anything in that regard because I didn't make any claim regarding the location of origin of the Albanian language. You have just invented it.


http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6052/books2r.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=XFtbEd1ojBsC&lpg=PP1&dq=a%20grammar%20of%20modern%20indo%20european&pg=PA89#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://i51.tinypic.com/li002.jpg
"A grammar of modern Indo-European: language and culture, writing ... - Page 78"

Further:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8906/booken9.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=5pCBRsfJMv8C&lpg=PP1&dq=ancient%20indo%20european%20dialects&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false

None of this justifies your claim that Albanian is most probably descended from Illyrian. There is nothing conclusive in nature here.


Further:
http://i54.tinypic.com/dwrnz6.jpg
"Mountains of Giants: A Racial and Cultural Study of the North Albanian Mountain Ghegs - Carleton S Coon, p. 40"

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8030/skallarillyrer2.jpg
"Mountains of Giants: A Racial and Cultural Study of the North Albanian Mountain Ghegs - Carleton S Coon, p. 62"

20th century racial anthropology is not linguistics.

[Ushtari]

None of this justifies your claim that Albanian is most probably descended from Illyrian. There is nothing conclusive in nature here.
Did you even read the text?

When discussing ancient history, you cant be 100% sure of a thing. However, all studies done testifies that the original home of Albanians was somewhere between northern Albania, stretching to Nish, in modern Serbia. And what people was dominating in this place? exactly, illyrians. Fact is, Original Albanian words are cognates with paleo-balkan words wich can be found in Romanian. Even if Albanians would be Thracians or something els, they are descendants of the people living in the area of northern albania stretching to nish.

And as you saw in my source, archeology points that Illyrians avoided assimilation by living isolated at the mountains of northern Albania, where they could preserve their language and culture.


20th century racial anthropology is not linguistics.
As i said, the Albanian-illyrian theory is not just based on linguistic grounds.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't know how you Scandinavians deal with your problems but we don't use those anymore.

VHS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS_assault_rifle)

That reminded me of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vhs). Crazy ass Kroaten shooting videotapes out of their arses.

[Ushtari]

None of this justifies your claim that Albanian is most probably descended from Illyrian. There is nothing conclusive in nature here.

I must ask you if you are familiar with balkan history? because what you just wrote makes no sense considering the sources i just gave you who suggest the following:

- Original home of Albanians is considered to be northern albania - stretching to Nish, modern Serbia.
- In this geographical area, illyrians where dominating.
- My source clearly says that ancient toponyms, in the area, follows Albanian phonological development.
- Archeology shows that illyrians could survive in the mountains of northern Albania, where they preserved their language and culture.
- Albanian language share cognates with paleo-balkan words wich can be found in Romanian.

This is what my source tells us. Now, how can you say it doesnt justify my claim about Albanian most probably being developed from illyrian?

Here is one more source wich confirms what i said:

http://i53.tinypic.com/sy5yyr.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=5pCBRsfJMv8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=ancient+indo+european+dialects&hl=en&ei=67-iTb2XNJzW4wbQju2OAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[archangel]

small thermonüclear bombs for each capital...lol jk:cool:

[Windischer]

the borders of the rest of Europe were formed back in the Middle Ages
LOL i didnt know 1940s and 1990s were middle ages, k. :rolleyes:


small thermonüclear bombs for each capital...lol jk:cool:
why jk? ;)