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Mingle
09-20-2018, 02:41 AM
Albania is short of mosques, and Turkey is building one in the capital for free. So why are Albanian Muslims not all happy about this?

With its four minarets towering over the Albanian parliament next door, no visitor can miss the Great Mosque of Tirana.

When completed in 2019, the hulking new central mosque will be the biggest in the Balkans, with enough room for 5,000 worshipers. And it more closely resembles the great old mosques of Istanbul than any here in Albania, a country ruled by the Ottoman Empire for over four centuries.

That's because Turkey is funding this mosque’s construction and overseeing its design, at an estimated cost of €30 million ($34 million), as it’s done with dozens across the Balkans and beyond.

Not all Albanians are happy about that – including many Muslims, who make up an estimated 60 percent of the population. Tirana’s new central mosque has already become a symbol for those Muslims who feel like a “discriminated majority” in one of Europe’s few Muslim-majority countries, in the words of prominent Albanian intellectual Fatos Lubonja – and like pawns in Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s great game.

Despite Albania’s Muslim majority (the remainder includes 10 percent Roman Catholics and 7 percent Orthodox Christians), there have long been political undercurrents that view Islam as incompatible with being “European,” says Mr. Lubonja, a writer and political analyst.

During Albania’s 19th-century national awakening, he explains, the nascent Albanian intellectual class suppressed religious identity in favor of a non-religious nationalism: “Albanianism.” They chose a national hero, Skanderbeg, who spent decades fighting against Ottoman rule – and, thus, Islam – in the 1400s.

“Muslims here still feel frustrated because of their Muslim identity,” says Lubonja, who spent 17 years as a political prisoner under communist dictator Enver Hoxha’s regime. In Albania, “Islam has always been a synonym for backwardness, the religion of occupiers.”

Rebuilding religious society

Today Albanian society remains largely secular, due in no small part to Mr. Hoxha’s brutal rule over the country for more than 40 years. He proclaimed Albania an officially atheist state in 1967, and under his rule, mosques across the country were abandoned, destroyed, or converted into museums. After communism collapsed in Albania in the early 1990s, many were reopened.

But not enough. According to Ilir Dizdari, the former head of the Albanian State Committee on Cults (which manages relations between religious communities and the state), today Tirana has the same number of mosques as it did in the 1960s, despite the city’s population having quadrupled.

Tirana’s Muslims have been asking for a new mosque for decades. After communism, many were left praying on the streets or in the Namazgah Park near the parliament building, a popular spot for outdoor prayers during Islamic festivals. While new Catholic and Orthodox cathedrals were built with little controversy after the fall of communism, plans for a new mosque never got off the ground. Even after Albania’s then-President Sali Berisha laid a foundation stone for it in 1992, the Roman Catholic speaker of the country’s parliament protested the plans.

And so that foundation stone in Namazgah Park lay forgotten until 2010, when then-Mayor Edi Rama announced that a new, modernist mosque would finally be built. Mr. Rama’s opponents accused him of playing to the Muslim vote before elections.

As Rama became Albania’s prime minister in 2013, his dedication to a central mosque project coincided with Ankara's mosque-building campaign. The public debate around the mosque soon became a debate about Turkey, and whether a “neo-Ottoman”-style mosque was the right fit in a country that takes great pride in having rebelled against Ottoman rule.

Even the most senior Muslim religious official in Albania, Grand Mufti Skënder Bruçaj, admitted that Turkey’s role in the mosque project had been divisive. However, he stressed that the most important thing for him is that a central mosque is finally being built.

“If we had the money, we would have done something different,” admits Mr. Bruçaj in his offices opposite the construction site. “But things were decided before … it’s not easy for us.”

Some remain irritated that their own government wasn’t willing to fund it.

“The mosque was necessary, but it should have been built by the Albanian state,” says one woman, who declined to give her name, after Friday prayers at the small Kokonozi Mosque near Tirana’s old bazaar.

“That we were unable to build it shows that we are weak,” remarks Gjoka Blebie, on Tirana’s sprawling Skanderbeg Square. “Why not do it ourselves?”

A new Turkish diplomacy

Many Albanians wonder if the mosque is really for them at all. Niuton Mulleti, a lecturer in political science and international relations at Tirana’s Epoka University, points out how unusual it was that Mr. Erdoğan himself appeared at the mosque’s official groundbreaking ceremony in 2015.

“It would be unimaginable to see the president of Italy at the opening of a Catholic church,” says Professor Mulleti, “and controversial to say the least to see the Greek prime minister at the opening of Tirana’s Orthodox Cathedral.”

The Turkish state, through its international development agency TIKA, is also investing millions in restoring a handful of small Ottoman-era mosques throughout Albania. Such mosque (re)construction efforts are part of a longstanding strategy of Erdoğan’s Justice and Development Party (AKP), which first came to power in 2002. Under the guidance of former Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, Erdoğan embarked on a new approach to Turkish diplomacy that focused on exerting soft power – including across parts of the Balkans with large Muslim populations – in a strategy some have characterized as “neo-Ottoman,” though Mr. Davutoğlu himself rejects the moniker.

That influence has recently served another purpose: Ankara is pressuring Balkan countries to hand over Turkish citizens deemed linked to the “Gülen terrorist organization” – as Turkey classifies the Islamic social movement led by Turkish preacher Fethullah Gülen – which it blames for a failed coup attempt in 2016.

In 2016, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu even called Albania the “center” for Gülenist activities in the Balkans, while pro-government Turkish media has portrayed Grand Mufti Bruçaj as a Gülen supporter. After initially dragging its heels, Albania’s government has vowed to cooperate in Ankara’s crackdown since Erdoğan’s re-election: Prime Minister Rama recently reaffirmed his support to tackle the Gülen network.

It’s one reason why Erdoğan gains by positioning himself as defender of Muslims across the Balkans and beyond. And while he’s certainly seen this way by some Muslims across the region, this is far from the case in Albania, where Erdoğan’s increasingly autocratic model holds little appeal for Albanians who want to eventually join the European Union.

“Turkey’s not a big brother,” Dorian Shatku says after prayers at Kokonozi Mosque. “Most Turks I know oppose Erdoğan.”

'Skyscrapers are the symbol of our new religion'

Elton Hatibi, a researcher who has studied Islam in Albania, sees Albanian politicians’ “Turkophilia” as strategy rather than conviction. “Albania is a small country which knows how to play the ‘big brother’ card well,” he explains.

“But people vote with their feet,” adds Mr. Hatibi. “Albanians once moved to Istanbul to make their fortune. These days, they go to the EU to do real business, and Turkey for holidays.”

Other Albanians have even less time for Erdoğan. In the park next door to the mosque, a group of older men playing chess are more than happy to share their opinions about what’s being built just across the way – and about the man responsible for it.

“Erdoğan is a dictator,” says Agim (who declined to provide a last name), an atheist who grew up in a Muslim family. “He’s worse than Enver Hoxha.”

“While I don’t care much for mosques, particularly not in an Ottoman style, for me the new mosque isn’t the most terrible thing,” reflects Lubonja, the writer and former political prisoner. “Skyscrapers are the symbol of our new religion.”



https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0912/In-Albania-new-Turkish-mosque-stirs-old-resentments?cmpid=editorpicks

Kelmendasi
09-20-2018, 01:17 PM
Meanwhile in Albania:


[IM]http://www.gazetamonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/kurban_bajramifalja.jpg[/IMG]
Funny that this is coming from a Turk

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
09-20-2018, 01:24 PM
Albania is short of mosques

How can it be short of Mosques? I know that during the communist regime they destroyed most of them but as of November 2016 there were a total of 810 mosques to be found throughout Albania.

Kelmendasi
09-20-2018, 01:32 PM
How can it be short of Mosques? I know that during the communist regime they destroyed most of them but as of November 2016 there were a total of 810 mosques to be found throughout Albania.
The number of Mosques was around 600 in 2009, not sure how many there are now. But I do know that there are more churches, in 2009 there were 1120 churches in total. Like 700 Mosques were destroyed during Communism though

Georgia
09-20-2018, 01:33 PM
Another worrying sign of Turkey’s growing influence in West Balkans.

Albanian citizens must realize that Erdogan’s investments in their economy are nothing more than a facade to cover his larger goal of making the Balkans increasingly dependent on Turkey, while making Ankara the dominant center of power like the Ottoman era in its days of glory.

As for Edi Rama,who wholeheartedly supports Albania’s friendship with Turkey,he should hang his head in shame.

Seya
09-20-2018, 01:48 PM
How can it be short of Mosques? I know that during the communist regime they destroyed most of them but as of November 2016 there were a total of 810 mosques to be found throughout Albania.

if u think 800 or 600 mosques are enough, u have to see how many churches are in romania. only 16.403 :rotfl:

itilvolga
09-20-2018, 01:50 PM
I do not think that it’s just a gift

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
09-20-2018, 01:51 PM
if u think 800 or 600 mosques are enough, u have to see how many churches are in romania. only 16.403 :rotfl:

You can not compare the population though. Romanians have also by far more religiously practising people as well I believe.

Seya
09-20-2018, 01:57 PM
You can not compare the population though. Romanians have also by far more religiously practising people as well I believe.

no, romania has more or less X9 albanian population..meaning 600x9=5400. well i repeat...we have 16.403. and don't imagine people being overly religious..but religion here is forced upon us. the church has a lot of power. they can do pretty much whatever they want.

itilvolga
09-20-2018, 01:57 PM
Another worrying sign of Turkey’s growing influence in West Balkans.

Albanian citizens must realize that Erdogan’s investments in their economy are nothing more than a facade to cover his larger goal of making the Balkans increasingly dependent on Turkey, while making Ankara the dominant center of power like the Ottoman era in its days of glory.

As for Edi Rama,who wholeheartedly supports Albania’s friendship with Turkey,he should hang his head in shame.

These girls on your profile pic look like Turkish asf

brennus dux gallorum
09-20-2018, 02:00 PM
These girls on your profile pic look like Turkish asf
That's weird, as these "girls" on contrary:

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170416105654-erdgoan-votes-exlarge-169.jpg
as the vast majority of kebabs look nothing like Greeks

Georgia
09-20-2018, 02:01 PM
These girls on your profile pic look like Turkish asf

Frankly,dear,I don’t give a a damn :-)

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
09-20-2018, 02:10 PM
no, romania has more or less X9 albanian population..meaning 600x9=5400. well i repeat...we have 16.403. and don't imagine people being overly religious..but religion here is forced upon us. the church has a lot of power. they can do pretty much whatever they want.

I can not find how many Churches Portugal has but I wouldn't be surprised if we have as many as Romania. Literally I can not think of any place in Portugal that I could go that doesn't have at least one church in a three miles radius.

I think that Romanians are quite religious, more so than the Portuguese in my experience (which can be already pretty religious). Most Romanians in Portugal end up joining crazy Brazilian Evangelic churches since there is barely any Orthodox Church in here and those people are religiously nuts: the type that goes knocking on your door on a early Sunday morning or gives away religious flyers on a train station.

itilvolga
09-20-2018, 02:11 PM
That's weird, as these "girls" on contrary:

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170416105654-erdgoan-votes-exlarge-169.jpg
as the vast majority of kebabs look nothing like Greeks

just LOL at you

itilvolga
09-20-2018, 02:13 PM
Frankly,dear,I don’t give a a damn :-)

I am not kidding or trolling, i have never did. If you do not believe me, you can ask to other Turkish members.

Georgia
09-20-2018, 02:18 PM
I am not kidding or trolling, i have never did. If you do not believe me, you can ask to other Turkish members.

So what?Who cares?I look like a typical Med that can pass in most countries of South Europe ,what’s the big deal about it?

Marmara
09-20-2018, 02:20 PM
I am not kidding or trolling, i have never did. If you do not believe me, you can ask to other Turkish members.

Girl on the left does spesifically, girl on the right looks more generic Mediterranean.

Georgia
09-20-2018, 02:21 PM
Girl on the left does spesifically, girl on the right looks more generic Mediterranean.

We are sisters :-)

brennus dux gallorum
09-20-2018, 02:23 PM
just LOL at you

your whole religion and islamic world where you belong to is a huge LOL

Marmara
09-20-2018, 02:24 PM
We are sisters :-)

Which one is you?

Marmara
09-20-2018, 02:28 PM
if u think 800 or 600 mosques are enough, u have to see how many churches are in romania. only 16.403 :rotfl:


no, romania has more or less X9 albanian population..meaning 600x9=5400. well i repeat...we have 16.403. and don't imagine people being overly religious..but religion here is forced upon us. the church has a lot of power. they can do pretty much whatever they want.

A fate we share. I heard you also have a costly Mega church project.

itilvolga
09-20-2018, 02:32 PM
So what?Who cares?I look like a typical Med that can pass in most countries of South Europe ,what’s the big deal about it?

Why are you so stressed? I did not say that you can not pass in SE, you can perfectly pass.

Georgia
09-20-2018, 02:32 PM
Which one is you?

The left one,the “Turkish-looking”.

Georgia
09-20-2018, 02:35 PM
Why are you so stressed? I did not say that you can not pass in SE, you can perfectly pass.
Ok,maybe I was a little touchy.

Teutone
09-20-2018, 02:38 PM
Let him build mosques all around, I dont mind it in muslim countries.

But pisses me off when he opens them in Moscow or Cologne

Georgia
09-20-2018, 02:51 PM
Most Albanians are irreligious,not Muslims,a legacy of their communist past.

They don’t practice circumcision,they don’t attend mosques,they drink alcohol and the women don’t wear Islamic veils.

Greece has received around 600.000 Albanian migrants during the last 3 decades and they have integrated pretty well in the country.

Albanians from Kosovo are quite different though,so I have been told.

brennus dux gallorum
09-20-2018, 03:50 PM
Most Albanians are irreligious,not Muslims,a legacy of their communist past.

They don’t practice circumcision,they don’t attend mosques,they drink alcohol and the women don’t wear Islamic veils.

Greece has received around 600.000 Albanian migrants during the last 3 decades and they have integrated pretty well in the country.

Albanians from Kosovo are quite different though,so I have been told.

Turkey on contrary is not irreligious..

Mingle
09-20-2018, 03:54 PM
if u think 800 or 600 mosques are enough, u have to see how many churches are in romania. only 16.403 :rotfl:

Having a lot of churches shouldn't be an issue since fundamentalist Christians aren't remotely a threat anymore. Having more mosques though could result in greater religiosity among Muslims which doesn't lead to good things usually. Not only that, but in this case Turkey is using it to gain influence in the Balkans (which many users here oppose).

Seya
09-20-2018, 04:13 PM
Having a lot of churches shouldn't be an issue since fundamentalist Christians aren't remotely a threat anymore. Having more mosques though could result in greater religiosity among Muslims which doesn't lead to good things usually. Not only that, but in this case Turkey is using it to gain influence in the Balkans (which many users here oppose).

it's not about fundamentalism but about the church being the richest institution here, spending more money then the whole education or medical system. it's unacceptable! bishop live like ancient kings. f that!

ValarMorghulis
09-20-2018, 04:24 PM
The number of Mosques was around 600 in 2009, not sure how many there are now. But I do know that there are more churches, in 2009 there were 1120 churches in total. Like 700 Mosques were destroyed during Communism though

Who gives a fuck of how much either or. We don’t need these so called “enlightened” trash opinions from the rest of “Europe” that should have been left in the Dark/Middle Ages. As long as our people seek approval from others we will always be at the bottom of the barrel.

ShenGjergj
09-20-2018, 06:40 PM
Most Albanians are irreligious,not Muslims,a legacy of their communist past.

They don’t practice circumcision,they don’t attend mosques,they drink alcohol and the women don’t wear Islamic veils.

Greece has received around 600.000 Albanian migrants during the last 3 decades and they have integrated pretty well in the country.

Albanians from Kosovo are quite different though,so I have been told.

The situation of Albanians in Greece is different, most of them have migrated there as "Irreligious people" and adopted the "national" religion of Greece and obviously they accepted the Orthodoxy wich is not bad.

Islam is still present in Albania, cannot be seen in everyday's life like obviously you see people drinking and "modern" women but i'm glad that Albania is seen as an Islamic country on people's eyes and it doesn't become like Ibiza, Sunny Beach or Zrce festival. I'm ok with normal family tourists from Poland, Ukraine, Russia and not with pig yougsters from England or the Netherlands.

Georgia
09-20-2018, 06:45 PM
The situation of Albanians in Greece is different, most of them have migrated there as "Irreligious people" and adopted the "national" religion of Greece and obviously they accepted the Orthodoxy wich is not bad.

Islam is still present in Albania, cannot be seen in everyday's life like obviously you see people drinking and "modern" women but i'm glad that Albania is seen as an Islamic country on people's eyes and it doesn't become like Ibiza, Sunny Beach or Zrce festival. I'm ok with normal family tourists from Poland, Ukraine, Russia and not with pig yougsters from England or the Netherlands.

You are Orthodox but you want Albania to be seen as an Islamic country?

adsız
09-20-2018, 06:46 PM
These girls on your profile pic look like Turkish asf
She does, very much..


Actually she looks very Turkish in her avatar picture. Only, nose a bit bigger... maybe, due to cam angle.. Idk

ShenGjergj
09-20-2018, 06:59 PM
You are an Orthodox but you want Albania to be seen as an Islamic country?

Yes, that's the only way our country will be protected from these pigs. Go in Croatia, Bulgaria, Italy, Spain, etc.. All the same pigs everywhere being drunk, on drug, on parties, all kind of crazy things i could see abroad.

We hold Skenderbeu's eagle in our flag and being seen as a "Muslim" country. It couldn't be more perfect.

Georgia
09-20-2018, 07:18 PM
Yes, that's the only way our country will be protected from these pigs. Go in Croatia, Bulgaria, Italy, Spain, etc.. All the same pigs everywhere being drunk, on drug, on parties, all kind of crazy things i could see abroad.

We hold Skenderbeu's eagle in our flag and being seen as a "Muslim" country. It couldn't be more perfect.

You think morality can be derived from Islam,this is where your argument falls flat on your face.

Muslim societies are as corrupt as the Christian ones,but much more hypocritical.

Illancha
09-21-2018, 10:34 AM
You think morality can be derived from Islam,this is where your argument falls flat on your face.

Muslim societies are as corrupt as the Christian ones,but much more hypocritical.

Yes, morality should be derived from freemasonic liberal "European" values instead.

ShenGjergj
09-21-2018, 07:50 PM
You think morality can be derived from Islam,this is where your argument falls flat on your face.

Muslim societies are as corrupt as the Christian ones,but much more hypocritical.

Of course it is, but you don't get me. I was mostly talking about the situation with foreigners, tourists, population movement, investment etc..

The fact that Albania is seen as a "muslim" and and a "poor" country, it's sad to be said but this is better for us. Less expansionist policy, mean more integrity in our society.

Armenian Bishop
09-21-2018, 08:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnTWxpTQt4


These girls on your profile pic look like Turkish asf


Frankly,dear,I don’t give a a damn :-)