What do you think? - The future of Israeli people (Genetically)

[Sp_loa]

Disclaimer: this is not a political discussion and I’m not talking about the future of the country and it’s legitimacy.

Scenario: In a few hundred years- all types of Jewish people mix with eachother in a homologous way making the Israeli Jewish to plot (PCA) in a single defined place created by the mix of Mizrahim, Sephardim, Ashkenazim, Yeminite Jews, Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews into one population.

Where do tou think the Israeli people are going to plot in this case? South levant? North levant? Between Europe and the levant? Western Asia? North Arabia?

I think in such scenario the Future Israeli Jews would be somewhat similar to Cypriots or Syrian-Lebanese people - returning to be mostly of levantine ancestry.

[Cernunnos]

Israel has a huge number of Muslims (20%), if they start to reproduce in high numbers they will replace the local Jewish population.

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[Haider]

Israel has a huge number of Muslims (20%), if they start to reproduce in high numbers they will replace the local Jewish population.

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'local' lol

[Cernunnos]

'local' lolMost Israeli Jews were already born there, so what's your point?

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[Sp_loa]

Israel has a huge number of Muslims (20%), if they start to reproduce in high numbers they will replace the local Jewish population.

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I’m talking about the genetics of future Israeli Jews. Ignore the non-Jewish population of Israel for the matter of this place.

[happycow]

Do the different Jewish groups already mix with each other?

[Sp_loa]

Do the different Jewish groups already mix with each other?

Only scular Jews and only in some areas of the country (with the exception of Ethiopian Jews that usually aren’t mixing with anyone yet). Ultra orthodox Jews and Jews in tel aviv area mix less and there is more racism from Ashkenazi Jews towards non Ashkenazi groups.
I’d say 10-20% of Jews in Israel are of mixed backgrounds.
In the Israeli census for Jews there are only 2 groups (which are not well defined)-

“Ashkenazi Jews”- include Jews from Europe (even non Ashkenazi like Sephardim from balkans and Turkey and Italian Jews), America (even Latin American Jews that are sometimes Sephardim).

“Mizrahi Jews”- includes Jews from Africa (including North African Sephardim and non Sephardim, Ethiopian Jews, Egyptian Ashkenazim) and Asia (Includes proper Mizrahi,yemenite and Indian Jews ).

So only mixes between these 2 populations are considered to he mixed race here.

[happycow]

Only scular Jews and only in some areas of the country (with the exception of Ethiopian Jews that usually aren’t mixing with anyone yet). Ultra orthodox Jews and Jews in tel aviv area mix less and there is more racism from Ashkenazi Jews towards non Ashkenazi groups.
I’d say 10-20% of Jews in Israel are of mixed backgrounds.
In the Israeli census for Jews there are only 2 groups (which are not well defined)-

“Ashkenazi Jews”- include Jews from Europe (even non Ashkenazi like Sephardim from balkans and Turkey and Italian Jews), America (even Latin American Jews that are sometimes Sephardim).

“Mizrahi Jews”- includes Jews from Africa (including North African Sephardim and non Sephardim, Ethiopian Jews, Egyptian Ashkenazim) and Asia (Includes proper Mizrahi,yemenite and Indian Jews ).

So only mixes between these 2 populations are considered to he mixed race here.

I see. Interesting. Do the groups considered Mizrahi mix with each other often? Or they as well stick with their own?

[Sp_loa]

I see. Interesting. Do the groups considered Mizrahi mix with each other often? Or they as well stick with their own?

Moroccan Jews are more arrogant towards other North African Jews but have no problem with Asian Jews. Usually there are many mixes.
Half Iraqi Jew-Half Moroccan Jew is very common mix.

Only exception is Jews from Northern Morocco that consider themselves Spaniards with Judaism only as a religion- (similar to the Ashkenazi point of view- they see themselves 100% German/Polish/Russian by blood and deny any middle eastern roots).
Youngers care less about ethnicity and are more open towards "interracial marriages"- including with gentiles.

Call me self hater but I'd rather marry a chips bag before dating with a Jew. I'm surrounded by only Jews 24/7 so I desperately seek for new environment.

[happycow]

Moroccan Jews are more arrogant towards other North African Jews but have no problem with Asian Jews. Usually there are many mixes.
Half Iraqi Jew-Half Moroccan Jew is very common mix.

Only exception is Jews from Northern Morocco that consider themselves Spaniards with Judaism only as a religion- (similar to the Ashkenazi point of view- they see themselves 100% German/Polish/Russian by blood and deny any middle eastern roots).
Youngers care less about ethnicity and are more open towards "interracial marriages"- including with gentiles.

Call me self hater but I'd rather marry a chips bag before dating with a Jew. I'm surrounded by only Jews 24/7 so I desperately seek for new environment.

I'm guessing a mixed Israel will probably not be the future, unless attitudes change of course. It will probably be a couple decades before it is known for sure.

The issue I had with being around middle eastern women is that I generally don't have much in common with them. I'm too westernized. But I'm also not really attracted to latina women and that's all there is here. I'll take a chips bag as well.

[Sp_loa]

I'm guessing a mixed Israel will probably not be the future, unless attitudes change of course. It will probably be a couple decades before it is known for sure.

The issue I had with being around middle eastern women is that I generally don't have much in common with them. I'm too westernized. But I'm also not really attracted to latina women and that's all there is here. I'll take a chips bag as well.

It would take several good hundred of years to form a mixed Israel. I assume it would be like in the Balkans after the invasions of the Slavs- after enough time Israeli Jews will be one ethnicity genetically.
The question of the thread- where will these people plot?
Tunisian Jews, Libyan Jews and Syrian Jews plot with Cypriots. Sephardi Jews (including Moroccan-Algerian Jews), Ashkenazi Jews and Italian Jews plot with Sicilians, while we do have some Ethnic russian and Serbs that are mixed with the Jewish population. Yemenite Jews cluster with Bedouins, Indian Jews with Indians, Kavkaz Jews with South caucasians, Iraqi Jews with Syrians, Ethiopian Jews with Ethiopians, and Persian Jews half way between Samaritans and Persians..
I assume homogeneous Israeli-Jews will plot with Cypriots/Lebanese-Syrians. They would be very mixed, but maybe plot in the same place of their founding Judean Ancestors, which is a cool thought.

[grecoroman]

Moroccan Jews are more arrogant towards other North African Jews but have no problem with Asian Jews. Usually there are many mixes.
Half Iraqi Jew-Half Moroccan Jew is very common mix.

Only exception is Jews from Northern Morocco that consider themselves Spaniards with Judaism only as a religion- (similar to the Ashkenazi point of view- they see themselves 100% German/Polish/Russian by blood and deny any middle eastern roots).
Youngers care less about ethnicity and are more open towards "interracial marriages"- including with gentiles.

Call me self hater but I'd rather marry a chips bag before dating with a Jew. I'm surrounded by only Jews 24/7 so I desperately seek for new environment.

thats ironic that ashkis in israel claim to be mostly of european stock, while ashkis in the west claim to be mostly of levantine stock!!!

[Sp_loa]

thats ironic that ashkis in israel claim to be mostly of european stock, while ashkis in the west claim to be mostly of levantine stock!!!

Because many Ashkenazi are the white supremacists of Israel and would die before admitting to be related to an Arab or a Mizrahi Jews. They see the Middle East as a primitive Barbaric area (I agree with that tho) and Middle easterners as "cavemen Barbaric hairy monkeys" (real quotes) .

I have Ashkenazi friends who said they'll never marry Mizrahi Jews because only their physical look gives the impression of non-educated primitive middle eastern people lol. "Cultural differences".
But it's true in some cases. I do thank god my mom had a strict british education and that I grew in a western house.

[arkas]

The future of Israel will be predominantly European, there are many with strongly Eastern and Southern European phenotypes living in Israel. If they all continuously mix for generations upon generations, all smaller minorities will cease to exist.

[Sp_loa]

The future of Israel will be predominantly European, there are many with strongly Eastern and Southern European phenotypes living in Israel. If they all continuously mix for generations upon generations, all smaller minorities will cease to exist.

But Genetically Jews aren't even mostly European so I assume they are going to be Genetically mostly MENA but maybe with more European phenotypes.

[grecoroman]

the demographic bomb are the ashkenazi haredim!! secular jewish israelis have a birthrate of 1.8 while haredim have a birthrate of 6!!!

[Sp_loa]

the demographic bomb are the ashkenazi haredim!! secular jewish israelis have a birthrate of 1.8 while haredim have a birthrate of 6!!!

Oy vey. Secular Jews in Israel hare Haredim more than they hate Palestinians lol. Haredim are terrorizing the country.

[rein]

the demographic bomb are the ashkenazi haredim!! secular jewish israelis have a birthrate of 1.8 while haredim have a birthrate of 6!!!

Excellent!

[grecoroman]

Oy vey. Secular Jews in Israel hare Haredim more than they hate Palestinians lol. Haredim are terrorizing the country.

if you have any balls, you should walk in meah shearim, bnei brak or beit shemesh with a soldiers uniform


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgocqR6wOz4

[Sp_loa]

if you have any balls, you should walk in meah shearim, bnei brak or beit shemesh with a soldiers uniform


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgocqR6wOz4

Last month there was a 16 years old girl walking in beit-shemesh I think with short sleeves. Dozen of haredi Jews chased after her calling her Nazi trying to kill her (see video). Terrorizing the country. And they don't work/serve in the army and get our taxes money. They throw stones on 8 years old girls because they (the girls) dress with short clothes. Psychopathes!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PCJOZ0hxPw&ab_channel=ynet

[grecoroman]

Last month there was a 16 years old girl walking in beit-shemesh I think with short sleeves. Dozen of haredi Jews chased after her calling her Nazi trying to kill her (see video). Terrorizing the country. And they don't work/serve in the army and get our taxes money. They throw stones on 8 years old girls because they (the girls) dress with short clothes. Psychopathes!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PCJOZ0hxPw&ab_channel=ynet

The 3 main words the haredim shout are nazi, shiksa (non jewish woman) and chardak. But i have searched for the meaning of the word chardak but i couldnt find anything on Google!! Do You as a hebrew speaker know what chardak means???

[Sp_loa]

The 3 main words the haredim shout are nazi, shiksa (non jewish woman) and chardak. But i have searched for the meaning of the word chardak but i couldnt find anything on Google!! Do You as a hebrew speaker know what chardak means???

Hardak= Haredi kal = Light Haredi jew. Like fake one who isn’t 100% Haredi in his heart. Usually said towards Haeedi Jews that go to the Army in order to make them to feel bad.
You know a lot about Haredi Jews! More than most people I know. Why can I ask?

[grecoroman]

Hardak= Haredi kal = Light Haredi jew. Like fake one who isn’t 100% Haredi in his heart. Usually said towards Haeedi Jews that go to the Army in order to make them to feel bad.
You know a lot about Haredi Jews! More than most people I know. Why can I ask?

I watch alot of yeshiva world news!!

[Nazarene]

Israel is destroying the once beautiful variation of the Jewish diaspora, though I understand that Jews wanted strength through unity. However, I'm sad that most of them are going to lose the cultures of their so-called "host" nations.

[Leto]

I support (if my support even means anything) a unified Israeli Jewish group. I once read that over 25% of kids in Israel were already mixed.

[Sp_loa]

I support (if my support even means anything) a unified Israeli Jewish group. I once read that over 25% of kids in Israel were already mixed.

Where do you think the unified Israeli Jewish will plot genetically? like in few hundred years when all Israeli are pretty homogenous. No more Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Mizrahi ect

[Bobby Martnen]

I’m talking about the genetics of future Israeli Jews. Ignore the non-Jewish population of Israel for the matter of this place.

I suspect that the average Israeli Jew will be like 50% Ashkenazi, 15% Sephardic, 25% Mizrachic, 10% Eastern European

[Leto]

Where do you think the unified Israeli Jewish will plot genetically? like in few hundred years when all Israeli are pretty homogenous. No more Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Mizrahi ect
Probably close to Sephardim. At least 50% of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi and a significant percentage are Sephardic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Paternal_country_of_diaspora_origin

[NSXD60]

Liberal Israeli Jews will self-destruct like their American cousins, and keep giving all non-Jews more voting rights, thus becoming outnumbered, out-cucked and culturally chucked out of existence by Muzzies.

[Anglojew]

Israel has a huge number of Muslims (20%), if they start to reproduce in high numbers they will replace the local Jewish population.

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The Jewish birthrate is higher than the Muslim birthrate in Israel. The Muslim birthrate is going up while the Muslim birthrate dramatically decreasing. The main reasons are the haredi Jews increasing as a percentage of Jewish population and the modernisation of the Muslim sector.

[Mingle]

I think in such scenario the Future Israeli Jews would be somewhat similar to Cypriots or Syrian-Lebanese people - returning to be mostly of levantine ancestry.

Agreed.

[Smeagol]

Probably close to Sephardim. At least 50% of Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi and a significant percentage are Sephardic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#Paternal_country_of_diaspora_origin

According to your link over 60% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. Also, many "Ashkenazi' in Israel are mongrelized themselves.

[Dick]

I suspect that the average Israeli Jew will be like 50% Ashkenazi, 15% Sephardic, 25% Mizrachic, 10% Eastern European

and 100% circumcized

[Bobby Martnen]

and 100% circumcized

1/3 of Israelis don't want to genitally mutilate "circumcise" their sons, but most go through with it because of social and cultural pressure.

[Leto]

According to your link over 60% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi.
No, Israeli origin means the father was born in Israel.

Also, many "Ashkenazi' in Israel are mongrelized themselves.
Mixed with Slavs and other Europeans, not with Arabs.

[Smeagol]

No, Israeli origin means the father was born in Israel.

From your link:
The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi.[63] The exact proportion of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jewish populations in Israel is unknown (since it is not included in the census); some estimates place Jews of Mizrahi origin at up to 61% of the Israeli Jewish population


Mixed with Slavs and other Europeans, not with Arabs.

No, mostly mixed with Mizrahi.

[Lucas]

It would take several good hundred of years to form a mixed Israel. I assume it would be like in the Balkans after the invasions of the Slavs- after enough time Israeli Jews will be one ethnicity genetically.
The question of the thread- where will these people plot?
Tunisian Jews, Libyan Jews and Syrian Jews plot with Cypriots. Sephardi Jews (including Moroccan-Algerian Jews), Ashkenazi Jews and Italian Jews plot with Sicilians, while we do have some Ethnic russian and Serbs that are mixed with the Jewish population. Yemenite Jews cluster with Bedouins, Indian Jews with Indians, Kavkaz Jews with South caucasians, Iraqi Jews with Syrians, Ethiopian Jews with Ethiopians, and Persian Jews half way between Samaritans and Persians..
I assume homogeneous Israeli-Jews will plot with Cypriots/Lebanese-Syrians. They would be very mixed, but maybe plot in the same place of their founding Judean Ancestors, which is a cool thought.

It is very easy to estimate (using for example K36 components I have them calculated for every Jewish sub-group, maybe others have in K15 or whatever) if you give me exact percentages (as part of whole Jewish population in Israel) of such groups:

- north African Jews
- non-African Sephardi

- western Ashkenazi
- Eastern Ashkenazi
or whole Ashkenazi frequency

- proper Mizrahi
- Indian Jews
- Ethiopian Jews
- Yemen Yews

If there are such estimations, instead of Ashkenazim and Mizrahi only?

[Bobby Martnen]

- Western Ashkenazi
- Eastern Ashkenazi

Genetically speaking, what's the difference between the two?

[Smeagol]

- western Ashkenazi
- Eastern Ashkenazi

What's the difference?

[Lucas]

What's the difference?

More Eastern Euro components. But could be groupped together if there is no choice.

[Bobby Martnen]

More Eastern Euro components. But could be groupped together if there is no choice.

Do Western Ashkenazi have elevated Atlantic/North Sea?

[Lucas]

Ok I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis

I have problem with Soviet Jews as many of them were "fake Jews" or with distant great-grandaparent who emigrated to Israel because of economic reason in '80-'90.
How many of them could be non_Jews (or 90% non-Jewish) in reality?

https://i.postimg.cc/L8gs6dmx/Bez-nazwy-1.png

[Lucas]

Do Western Ashkenazi have elevated Atlantic/North Sea?

Academic Dutch Jew samples for example, yes

[Sp_loa]

It is very easy to estimate (using for example K36 components I have them calculated for every Jewish sub-group, maybe others have in K15 or whatever) if you give me exact percentages (as part of whole Jewish population in Israel) of such groups:

- north African Jews
- non-African Sephardi
- western Ashkenazi
- Eastern Ashkenazi
- proper Mizrahi
- Indian Jews
- Ethiopian Jews
- Yemen Yews

If there are such estimations, instead of Ashkenazim and Mizrahi only?

The mixes already begun but no problem I can give you some percentages from times mixes weren't common. These are rough estimates. Notice North African Jews vary- Moroccan Jews plot a bit south to Sicilians while Tunisian Jews plot closer to Sicily and Libyan Jews plot with levant. I hope I'm close enough.

Moroccan Jews- 7.41%
Algerian Jews- 2%
Tunisian Jews- 1.52%
Libyan Jews- 0.61%
Ashkenazi Jews- 42.71% (half are USSR Jews, Half are Central/Western European Jews)
Sephardim proper (Turkey,Balkans, latin America Sephardim)- 17.61%
Italian Jews- 0.77%
Iraqi Jews- 3.81%
Syrian Jews- 1.75 %
Iranian Jews- 3.81%
Afghani Jews- 0.07%
Yemenite Jews- 6.64%
Central Asian Jews (Uzbek Jews should be good reference) = 3.81%
Indian Jews- 1.06%
Ethiopian Jews- 2.15%
Georgian Jews- 3.05%
Caucasus Jews (Azerbaijan, Dagestan ect)- 1.22%

[Sp_loa]

Ok I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis

I have problem with Soviet Jews as many of them were "fake Jews" or with distant great-grandaparent who emigrated to Israel because of economic reason in '80-'90.
How many of them could be non_Jews (or 90% non-Jewish) in reality?

https://i.postimg.cc/L8gs6dmx/Bez-nazwy-1.png

Almost all Russian Jews in Israel are at least 25% Gentile Russian.

[Leto]

Almost all Russian Jews in Israel are at least 25% Gentile Russian.
One needs to be at least 25% Jewish to use the right of return. However many brought their spouses to Israel.

[Hoihey]

The future of Israel will be Ashkenazi, the reason why is simple
These guys
http://i65.tinypic.com/345n9eg.jpg

[Cernunnos]

All of Europe, North America and Oceania will turn majority non-white while Israel will become the whitest country on earth.


Best/Worst plot twist in human history.

[Lucas]

The future of Israel will be Ashkenazi, the reason why is simple
These guys
http://i65.tinypic.com/345n9eg.jpg

Why

[Leto]

Why
The Haredim have more kids on average than Muslim Arabs in Israel. And they don't seem to mix with Oriental Jews.

[Hoihey]

Why
Big growth rate, basically no intermarriages
http://i64.tinypic.com/fllyqq.png
http://i66.tinypic.com/106a5ms.jpg

[Lucas]

Big growth rate, basically no intermarriages
http://i64.tinypic.com/fllyqq.png
http://i66.tinypic.com/106a5ms.jpg

They are those Ashkenazi, derived mainly from Eastern Europe?

[Hoihey]

They are those Ashkenazi, derived mainly from Eastern Europe?

That’s right.

[Leto]

I have not read it thoroughly but looks like a solid study to me.

Running RFMix on the AJ genomes with our EU and ME reference panels and summing up the lengths of all tracts assigned to each ancestry, the genome-wide ancestry was ≈53% EU and ≈47% ME, consistent with our previous estimate based on a smaller sequencing panel [9]. Our simulations suggested that the accuracy of LAI for an EU-ME admixed population is only around ≈70%, much lower than the near-perfect accuracy observed for cross-continental admixture (e.g., [29–33]). The local ancestry assignment is nevertheless non-random, and therefore, with proper accounting for errors (below), can be informative on the place and time of admixture events.

To quantitatively estimate the contribution of each subcontinental European region, we used the above-mentioned proportions of chromosomes classified to each EU region as summary statistics, and matched them to simulations in which the proportions of ancestry contributed by each region is known. Specifically, we performed 4-way admixture simulations between individuals of Levantine, Southern European, Eastern European, and Western European origin. In these simulations, we fixed the Levantine admixture proportion to 50% and varied the proportions of the different European regions. We then used a grid search to find the ancestry proportions that best fit the observed fraction of AJ chromosomes classified as each ancestry. The simulation results (Fig 2) suggest that the European component of the AJ cohort is 34% Southern EU, 8% Western EU, and 8% Eastern EU. This analysis thus suggests that roughly 70% of EU ancestry in AJ is Southern European. Using bootstrapping (S1 Text section 3), the 95% confidence interval of the Southern EU ancestry was [33,35]% and that of Eastern EU was [8,9]%. However, bootstrapping does not account for any systematic biases, which in this case are of larger magnitude (S1 Text section 3 and below).
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1006644

[rajputprincess]

Ashkenazi because most haredi Jews are Ashkenazi and they have 6 or 7 kid's they have kids as much as African. And migration from east europe

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[Boudin]

French-Canadians and French-Americans plot Northeast France when you'd expect them to plot Western France. Why? I'm not sure, maybe founder effect and/or genetic drift. So I think there's a good chance a future mixed Israel doesn't plot as expected.

[Italicus]

I'm going to guess they are going to look like Central Anatolian Greeks from Cappadocia (Ashkenazi/Sephardi = Greek Islander + Mizrahi = Assyrian) (Cappadocian Greeks plot between Greek Islanders and Assyrians) with Arabian influence (Yemeni + Ethiopian). Perhaps Cypriots. The Bene Israel and Cochin Jews are a small segment of the population, I don't think they will have a big impact genetically in the long run. I could be wrong though. So my guess is they will autosomally resemble Cypriots.

[rajputprincess]

italicus in Israel it is very rare for mizrahi Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews to marry Ethiopian Jews both men and women rarely marry them SO they are gonna be more like African American. As for Yemen or they're gonna bring some arabian mixture but less then a Yemenite muslim because they have higher Levante heritage. You are also forgetting about Russian Jews who have load of Slavic and in Israel Orthodox Jews have most kids and most Orthodox are Ashkenazi

[rajputprincess]

Mizrahi Sephardic and Ashkenazi love marrying each other through. It is not even considered inter racial and most people accept these relationship

[VirilLignac]

Disclaimer: this is not a political discussion and I’m not talking about the future of the country and it’s legitimacy.

Scenario: In a few hundred years- all types of Jewish people mix with eachother in a homologous way making the Israeli Jewish to plot (PCA) in a single defined place created by the mix of Mizrahim, Sephardim, Ashkenazim, Yeminite Jews, Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews into one population.

Where do tou think the Israeli people are going to plot in this case? South levant? North levant? Between Europe and the levant? Western Asia? North Arabia?

I think in such scenario the Future Israeli Jews would be somewhat similar to Cypriots or Syrian-Lebanese people - returning to be mostly of levantine ancestry.

Between Europe and the Levant.

[Annihilus]

Haredim breed like rats, in time they will replace all other Jewish groups. Not sure where they plot though

https://en.idi.org.il/media/12831/haredim2.jpg

They look inbred af

[Mortimer]

I think a little less european, they have many ethiopian, indian, mizrahi jews etc. if they mix all together they would be a little less european, already most israeli soldiers i see do not look really european anymore... they look unique

[rajputprincess]

I think a little less european, they have many ethiopian, indian, mizrahi jews etc. if they mix all together they would be a little less european, already most israeli soldiers i see do not look really european anymore... they look unique

Mort Orthodox Jews who are mostly Ashkenazi don't do military service and Israel is hot country so they have tan. Tan skin can decrease how European you look.

[Mortimer]

Mort Orthodox Jews who are mostly Ashkenazi don't do military service and Israel is hot country so they have tan. Tan skin can decrease how European you look.

It is not only the tann, i do see a difference between a tanned european from sun, and someone who looks unique you dont see that difference? what if king charles is tanned?

[rajputprincess]

Many North African Jews and Turkish Jews already are part European because they're Sephardic .

[rajputprincess]

It is not only the tann, i do see a difference between a tanned european from sun, and someone who looks unique you dont see that difference? what if king charles is tanned?


Difference is big if someone look southern European lmao. Like ronaldo Ariana Grande with tan don't look that European but i have seen their pics without tan they look proper European.

[Mortimer]

Difference is big if someone look southern European lmao. Like ronaldo Ariana Grande with tan don't look that European but i have seen their pics without tan they look proper European.

I think the Israelis look more middle eastern, but not even really middle eastern, they have something european too and maybe even something more exotic then middle eastern, and together it forms a unique combo, to me they looked unique.

Occassionally a IDF girl is blonde, but rarely...

Do they look proper european? Thats how i see most of them.... sometimes but very rarely someone looks proper european...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuhZ2h4Ug9Y

[rajputprincess]

I think the Israelis look more middle eastern, but not even really middle eastern, they have something european too and maybe even something more exotic then middle eastern, and together it forms a unique combo, to me they looked unique.

Occassionally a IDF girl is blonde, but rarely...

Do they look proper european? Thats how i see most of them.... sometimes but very rarely someone looks proper european...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuhZ2h4Ug9Y

By proper European do you mean North European?
Obviously even Ashkenazi Jews have levant dna but central European looking girls don't seem that uncommon and if you add southern European then I think that at least half of them can pass based on that video

[rajputprincess]

I think the Israelis look more middle eastern, but not even really middle eastern, they have something european too and maybe even something more exotic then middle eastern, and together it forms a unique combo, to me they looked unique.

Occassionally a IDF girl is blonde, but rarely...

Do they look proper european? Thats how i see most of them.... sometimes but very rarely someone looks proper european...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuhZ2h4Ug9Y

Who do you think look whiter turk Or Israeli?

[Mortimer]

Who do you think look whiter turk Or Israeli?

I dont know, i think they look a bit different from eatch other, it doesnt neccessarily mean one is whiter then the other, also white is not the same as white, a greek is just as white as a swede, but they look a bit different as groups and on average... even germans can be different to eatch other like oliver kahn and jogi löw but both are equally white and equally german, but they look different. I dont know who is whiter turks or israelis but i think they look different to eatch other.

[Leto]

I believe this is from Quora, I copied it a few months ago. Basically the Haredim are far from exclusively Ashkenazi, at least not in Israel.


Are more Haredim in Israel Mizrahi or Ashkenazi?

Ashkenazi. This is only to be expected because the movements that became ultra Orthodoxy were started in Eastern Europe, namely Hasidism and Yeshivism. Religious Zionism is also Ashkenazi in origin.

Hasidism got started in the region of northern Ukraine and the Carpathian region and quickly spread all over Ukraine, Poland, eastern Hungary, and northern Romania. It was a movement based on practical down to earth Kabbala, celebrating the connection of the common Jew to God and Torah, joy in prayer with dance, singing and meditation, emotional experiential connection to the divine, enthusiastic observance of the commandments more than what’s required, panentheism, and the tzaddik or rebbe, a spiritual being whose totally devoted to the uplifting of the people to God. As Hasidism spread it took on the old European Jewish custom of the local rabbi passing his office to his son or son in law, with the result that dynasty of rebbes developed. The 200 or so sects of Hasidic Judaism each are centred around a particular dynasty of rebbes. The two most open Hasidic groups—Chabad and Breslov—-—no longer have rebbes but believe that their rebbes still guide them from Heaven (Breslov only ever had one rebbe, Chabad had seven.). Since Hasidic groups tend to be insular and are focused on building their nests larger, they don’t act to bring in outsiders though a few do come in here and there. As a result the Hasidic world is overwhelmingly Ashkenazi by over 95 percent. Chabad and Breslov are the only two Hasidic groups with a critical mass of Sephardim and Mizrahim in their communities.

And since in Israel, Hasidim make up about 40 per cent of the ultra Orthodox world that automatically makes the Ashkenazi percentage a plurality.

The Yeshivishe movement (often known as Lithuanian movement) was created in opposition to the Hasidic movement and in an attempt to stop the spread of Hasidism (after World War 2 the two movements pretty much buried the hatchet). Whilst the Hasidim focused on experience and emotion, the Yeshivish focused on the cerebral aspect of Judaism particularly Talmudic learning and scholarship. They reinvented the institution of the yeshiva where people go to learn texts and they spread the intellectual ideal through the communities of northeast Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and elsewhere. They largely accepted Kabbala but did not make it the central focus and their leadership revolves around scholars and legal authorities. In the 1870s, Yeshivism experienced an energising shot in the arm with the Mussar movement which puts great emphasis on ethical mindfulness and self awareness. The Yeshivish are not as sectarian oriented as the Hasidim but they do have a number of different schools of thought based in various yeshivas, that function as de facto sects, though many Yeshivishe sort of flow between these different sects.

The Yeshivishe are about 30 percent of Israel’s ultra Orthodox. (These percentages are guesstimates, not based on statistic studies. They’re based on my observations and what I learn from those involved in the communities.). They do have a significant mass of Sephardim and Mizrahim in their ranks because they welcomed many of them into their yeshivas, but I would estimate that about 80 percent of Yeshivish are Ashkenazi.

I mentioned Religious Zionism which is not ultra Orthodox only because while as a whole it’s not ultra there is an ultra Orthodox element to it, called the Chardal. They live like ultra Orthodox limiting secular studies and bonds to the non religious world, fostering separatism from that world and very strict levels of observance. The difference between then and other ultra Orthodox is that other ultra, especially Hasidim and Yeshivish are non Zionist (with an anti Zionist minority.). They ascribe no religious significance to the state of Israel at all and don’t see the settlement of the land of Israel as a categorical imperative until the messianic age comes. Chardalniks, on the other hand, like other Religious Zionists view the state of Israel as the beginning of the Redemption, view settling in Israel as commanded, and celebrate national holidays as religious ones. The Chardal are about 10 percent of ultra and I would say are roughly evenly divided between Ashkenazim and Sephardim/Mizrahim.

The remaining 20 percent of ultra Orthodox is Haredi Sephardi. Associated with Israel’s Shas party they function much the same way as the Yeshivish do with similar institutions and structure, many of their leaders having originally attended Ashkenazi yeshivas. The difference lies in the style of Talmudic learning being more akin to what scholars in Morocco, Turkey, Yemen, Iraq etc did, different traditions, and greater emphasis on Kabbala. Also the Sephardi Haredim while not religious Zionist per se, are far more open to it than the Ashkenazi Hasidim and Yeshivish are, and are also much more right wing hardline politically, almost all of them adamantly opposed to any peace agreement with the Arabs or any consideration of a Palestinian state. For Hasidim and Yeshivishe (with the exception of Chabad who are very hardline too, as are the Chardal.) they are largely ambivalent about these issues.

So I would estimate the ultra Orthodox world in Israel to be about 35 percent Sephardi/Mizrahi and 65 per cent Ashkenazi.