West Africans got Eurasian ancestry

[Token]

What a fucking epic paper. Apparently, Afalou-Taforalt (aka Iberomaurusians) were not Yoruba admixed; the geneflow occured from Taforalt to Yoruba, not the reverse. Taforalt were apparently around half ANA (Ancient North African) half Eurasian, that makes modern West Africans around 7% Eurasian, which explains the presence of Neanderthal alleles in the region. This North African group also contributed to Natufians, and consequently to the formation of the modern European genepool.

"Our co-modeling of Epipaleolithic Natufians and Ibero-Maurusians from Taforalt confirms that the Taforalt population was mixed, but instead of specifying gene flow from the ancestors of Natufians into the ancestors of Taforalt as originally reported, we infer gene flow in the reverse direction (into Natufians). The Neolithic population from Morocco, closely related to Taforalt is also consistent with being descended from the source of this gene flow, and appears to have no admixture from the Levantine Neolithic (Supplementary Information section 3). If our model is correct, Epipaleolithic Natufians trace part of their ancestry to North Africa, consistent with morphological and archaeological studies that indicate a spread of morphological features and artifacts from North Africa into the Near East. Such a scenario would also explain the presence of Y-chromosome haplogroup E in the Natufians and Levantine farmers6, a common link between the Levant and Africa. Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources."

Also, like expected, ANE seems to be mixture of paleolithic Eastern European Hunter Gatherers and early Eastern non Africans. Consequently, modern Europeans and ANE-rich West Eurasians have some concrete East Eurasian admixture.

https://i.imgur.com/CfFQOGG.png

For those who want to read the full paper: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/09/20/423079

[Token]

bump for the genetictards

[Joso]

bump for the genetictards

there is no pure blacks it seens, even khoi-sans have eurasian admixture, it explains their looks

[Sikeliot]

Couldn't this admixture have arrived in all West Africans via people like the Fulani?

[Aren]

So both Western Eurasians and West Africans(also other SSA?) have ANA(Ancient North African) input which is another name for Basal?

[Token]

So both Western Eurasians and West Africans(also other SSA?) have ANA(Ancient North African) input which is another name for Basal?

Yes, something Taforalt like contributed around 27% to Epipaleolithic Natufians too. I suppose this figure decreased after more Basal admixed into Anatolian farmers.

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/qpgraph-dzudzuana.jpg

[Token]

which is another name for Basal?
ANA branches off before Basal Eurasian and soon after Mota.

[Chaos One]

Couldn't this admixture have arrived in all West Africans via people like the Fulani?

Hausa, Fulani and Tuaregs could do all the work IMO. Too many people.

[Sikeliot]

Hausa, Fulani and Tuaregs could do all the work IMO. Too many people.

These transitional groups in my opinion likely contributed such ancestry to West Africans.

Either way this study is good because it shows people are far more interconnected than we believe.

[Lugh]

Ah damn, someone already made a thread lol. Very interesting paper indeed.

[Smeagol]

Coon knew this 50 years ago without the aid of genetics.

[Mortimer]

This is all getting weird and complicated, amerindians have westeuroasian, ssa have westeuroasian etc. i prefer if we divide the races by traditionally concept.

i dont know who writes this but this stinks of eurocentrism basically there is no pure race except europeans and some certain westasians.

[Lugh]

This is all getting weird and complicated, amerindians have westeuroasian, ssa have westeuroasian etc. i prefer if we divide the races by traditionally concept.

i dont know who writes this but this stinks of eurocentrism basically there is no pure race except europeans and some certain westasians.

They're Harvard scientists coming to these conclusions based off genetic data. Also they didn't establish Europeans as pure, look at the qpgraph in the study, Europeans are far as being pure... (We're basically a mix of MA1, Basal Eurasian and Villabruna for the most part)
https://i.imgur.com/etxtPKT.png
The admixture in West Africans is Iberomaurusian-like (Taforalt) as you can also see from the qpgraph. Iberomaurusians/Taforalt are extremely different from modern and ancient Europeans, which you can see in the PCA of the study... (NW African)
https://i.imgur.com/PXXeq81.png

BTW, it should be pointed out that while you have people accusing population geneticists like Reich and Lazaridis of being Eurocentric and racist, you then have other people saying they're Jewish propagandists promoting anti-white narratives. In reality they are neither of those things, just geneticists reporting on their findings.

[Congolese Rice]

Wuuut??? This is interesting AF lol, thumbs up for this post.


If i have a Fulani ancestor (Fulani's are roughly 3/4 West african, and 1/4 North African) does that mean i am even more north african?? Is that how it works? XD


eitherway, interesting post dude, i would like to see more of this type of research.

[Token]

Coon knew this 50 years ago without the aid of genetics.

Not really, everything he wrote about Afalou was wrong. He was wrong in associating Afalou with Upper Paleolithic Europeans, genetically they were nothing alike; He was wrong on emphasizing the Neanderthal character of Afalou, they were actually less Neanderthal than Eurasians; he was wrong in classifying Afalou as Caucasoid: half of the Iberomaurusian genepool comes from a pre Eurasian bottleneck source (ANA).

[Smeagol]

Not really, everything he wrote about Afalou was wrong. He was wrong in associating Afalou with Upper Paleolithic Europeans, genetically they were nothing alike; He was wrong on emphasizing the Neanderthal character of Afalou, they were actually less Neanderthal than Eurasians; he was wrong in classifying Afalou as Caucasoid: half of the Iberomaurusian genepool comes from a pre Eurasian bottleneck source (ANA).

I meant about West Africans having Eurasian ancestry. Also Coon corrected much of what he earlier wrote about Afalou in the 60s. He acknowledged they weren't Caucasoid.

[Not a Cop]

What a fucking epic paper.

Thanks for Sharing, two questions.

By Eastern European Hunter Gatherers you mean WHG who lived in East, not EHG genetical term?


What is the WHG\EE ration in ANE?

[Leto]

BTW, it should be pointed out that while you have people accusing population geneticists like Reich and Lazaridis of being Eurocentric and racist, you then have other people saying they're Jewish propagandists promoting anti-white narratives. In reality they are neither of those things, just geneticists reporting on their findings.
Science stops right when they start using various prehistoric or ancient findings to promote multiculturalism and mass migration in today's world. Remember the Cheddar man controversy.

[StonyArabia]

This is all getting weird and complicated, amerindians have westeuroasian, ssa have westeuroasian etc. i prefer if we divide the races by traditionally concept.

i dont know who writes this but this stinks of eurocentrism basically there is no pure race except europeans and some certain westasians.

Europeans are not pure, East Europeans often have some Mongoloid admixture and at times South Asian
North Europeans have Siberian admixture especially Scandos
South Europeans have some Mideastern and SSA admixture like especially West Meds

[Token]

Thanks for Sharing, two questions.

By Eastern European Hunter Gatherers you mean WHG who lived in East, not EHG genetical term?


What is the WHG\EE ration in ANE?

Neither, i mean something related to Kostenki14 and Sunghir3. MA-1/ANE can be modelled as 24% Paleolithic East Asian and 76% Paleolithic Russian Hunter-Gatherer.


I meant about West Africans having Eurasian ancestry. Also Coon corrected much of what he earlier wrote about Afalou in the 60s. He acknowledged they weren't Caucasoid.
Interesting, can you share what Coon wrote about Eurasian on West Africans? I was not aware of Afalou, thanks for the correction.

[Lugh]

Science stops right when they start using various prehistoric or ancient findings to promote multiculturalism and mass migration in today's world. Remember the Cheddar man controversy.

In the case of Cheddar man it was the British Museum and the mainstream media who turned it into a political issue. The actual study on cheddar man was basically a standard WHG report. This is the same with pretty much any sort of scientific data, scientists present their findings and then people twist them to suit their narratives. I don't see anything wrong with Lazaridis' paper.

[Leto]

In the case of Cheddar man it was the British Museum and the mainstream media who turned it into a political issue. The actual study on cheddar man was basically a standard WHG report. This is the same with pretty much any sort of scientific data, scientists present their findings and then people twist them to suit their narratives. I don't see anything wrong with Lazaridis' paper.
Yeah, sure. That was fake news presented as science.

[Smeagol]

Interesting, can you share what Coon wrote about Eurasian on West Africans? I was not aware of Afalou, thanks for the correction.

It's from his Living Races of Man (1965) But I unfortunately don't have access to the text right now.

[indo-uralopean]

No research paper is needed.....these mofos are from the Steppes.

https://i.postimg.cc/CL8dcxjG/download_1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/wBqvx5n2/images_COLLAGE.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QFzs078K)pc screen shot (https://postimages.org/app)

https://i.postimg.cc/rF49XW6z/download.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Not a Cop]

Neither, i mean something related to Kostenki14 and Sunghir3. MA-1/ANE can be modelled as 24% Paleolithic East Asian and 76% Paleolithic Russian Hunter-Gatherer.


Interesting, can you share what Coon wrote about Eurasian on West Africans? I was not aware of Afalou, thanks for the correction.


Thanks, so all in all i'm about 8% EE?

Population
ANE 20.13
ASE 2.92
WHG-UHG 63.63
East_Eurasian 2.89
West_African 0.59
East_African 0.33
ENF 9.51


Also what's the difference between Kostenki\Sungir and WHG\EHG? Seems i missed out a bit on the topic.

[indo-uralopean]

More Turk than Turks from Turkey.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

[Joso]

Coon knew this 50 years ago without the aid of genetics.

Yeah, that is a proof of what i insist to say, we don't need genetics to know the origins of an enthnicity

[Smeagol]

Yeah, that is a proof of what i insist to say, we don't need genetics to know the origins of an enthnicity

They certainly help clarify things but we shouldn't discount physical anthropology.

[Congolese Rice]

Thanks, so all in all i'm about 8% EE?

Population
ANE 20.13
ASE 2.92
WHG-UHG 63.63
East_Eurasian 2.89
West_African 0.59
East_African 0.33
ENF 9.51


Also what's the difference between Kostenki\Sungir and WHG\EHG? Seems i missed out a bit on the topic.




Population
ANE 12.32
ASE 2.34
WHG-UHG 45.53
East_Eurasian 1.78
West_African 5.12
East_African 21.23
ENF 11.68



^ what a weird test...

I assume that "East african" on this test is actually west african?? and my ENF is probably my berber? i dont know it looks very odd

[rein]

Population
ANE 12.32
ASE 2.34
WHG-UHG 45.53
East_Eurasian 1.78
West_African 5.12
East_African 21.23
ENF 11.68



^ what a weird test...

I assume that "East african" on this test is actually west african?? and my ENF is probably my berber? i dont know it looks very odd

Totally typical Neanderthal results.

[Lugh]

Population
ANE 12.32
ASE 2.34
WHG-UHG 45.53
East_Eurasian 1.78
West_African 5.12
East_African 21.23
ENF 11.68



^ what a weird test...

I assume that "East african" on this test is actually west african?? and my ENF is probably my berber? i dont know it looks very odd

Davidski states the main purpose of that test is to estimate ANE ancestry, so the other components are just junk really...
http://bga101.blogspot.com/2014/09/eurogenes-ane-k7.html

"Obviously, there are also six other ancestral components in this test (hence the K7 in the name). They're basically byproducts of me trying to isolate ANE, and don't necessarily mean anything."

That being said, I am of the opinion that such calculators are inaccurate for determining actual ANE ancestry. NW Europeans for example who can successfully be modelled as 50% Yamnaya on nMonte/qpadm score only ~16-17% ANE. EHG who can be modelled as 70% ANE in nMonte/qpadm come out at only 50-55% ANE on the Basal Rich K7 (which is a similar calculator made by David). So really, don't take any "ancient components" on GEDmatch tests seriously.

[Congolese Rice]

Davidski states the main purpose of that test is to estimate ANE ancestry, so the other components are just junk really...
http://bga101.blogspot.com/2014/09/eurogenes-ane-k7.html

"Obviously, there are also six other ancestral components in this test (hence the K7 in the name). They're basically byproducts of me trying to isolate ANE, and don't necessarily mean anything."

That being said, I am of the opinion that such calculators are inaccurate for determining actual ANE ancestry. NW Europeans for example who can successfully be modelled as 50% Yamnaya on nMonte/qpadm score only ~16-17% ANE. EHG who can be modelled as 70% ANE in nMonte/qpadm come out at only 50-55% ANE on the Basal Rich K7 (which is a similar calculator made by David). So really, don't take any "ancient components" on GEDmatch tests seriously.

Ok makes sense, i was already wondering why this test gave me 21% east african. makes sense now i guess. I assume that i am only 12.32% ANE then, lol. Not very high up.

[Cosmo Zero]

Not really, everything he wrote about Afalou was wrong. He was wrong in associating Afalou with Upper Paleolithic Europeans, genetically they were nothing alike; He was wrong on emphasizing the Neanderthal character of Afalou, they were actually less Neanderthal than Eurasians; he was wrong in classifying Afalou as Caucasoid: half of the Iberomaurusian genepool comes from a pre Eurasian bottleneck source (ANA).

not really, coon wasn't wrong about taforalt being caucasoid or upper paleothic european like ,he's work was strictly concluded in respect of pure anthropological / morphological evidence , i mean taforalt / afalou may had some minor neanderthal like archaic influence but still nothing special.

ANA (Para-Eurasian) -“Deep” ancestry- diverged from other non-Sub-Saharan Africans before the Basal Eurasians did, this Deep ancestry group, which nevertheless forms a clade with the new Eurasian lineages (Basal and non-Basal), does not clearly seem to have undergone the bottleneck event according to this paper.

so if ANA is anything it's basal to basal Eurasian but with no bottleneck effect (aka more population numbers) , whatever basal Eurasian or pre-OOA-eurasian looked like , ANA certainly looked like that too.

in this paper laziradis have successfully model natufians as 27% taforalt ,which means Ancestral North African contributes between 5%-20% to MENA and something like 3%-9% to Europe via natufians proxy.

it's also fair to suggest that Y-haplogroup E can now be associated safely either with Basal eurasian or ancestral north african, which makes E1b the result of foreign paternal admixture into sub-saharan populations.

[Cosmo Zero]

Europeans are not pure, East Europeans often have some Mongoloid admixture and at times South Asian
North Europeans have Siberian admixture especially Scandos
South Europeans have some Mideastern and SSA admixture like especially West Meds

it seems ANA deep ancestry will surely absorb much (if not all) of the pseudo-ssa minor ancestry detected in some europeans and native indigenous north Africans which was wrongfully counted as ssa-proper.

[KMack]

Can you guys just chill out, who was fucking who first.

[Zuh]

This is all getting weird and complicated, amerindians have westeuroasian, ssa have westeuroasian etc. i prefer if we divide the races by traditionally concept.

i dont know who writes this but this stinks of eurocentrism basically there is no pure race except europeans and some certain westasians.

Maybe the world was once white how you ever thought about that?

[Bellbeaking]

Awsome paper

[Imperator Biff]

Davidski states the main purpose of that test is to estimate ANE ancestry, so the other components are just junk really...
http://bga101.blogspot.com/2014/09/eurogenes-ane-k7.html

"Obviously, there are also six other ancestral components in this test (hence the K7 in the name). They're basically byproducts of me trying to isolate ANE, and don't necessarily mean anything."

That being said, I am of the opinion that such calculators are inaccurate for determining actual ANE ancestry. NW Europeans for example who can successfully be modelled as 50% Yamnaya on nMonte/qpadm score only ~16-17% ANE. EHG who can be modelled as 70% ANE in nMonte/qpadm come out at only 50-55% ANE on the Basal Rich K7 (which is a similar calculator made by David). So really, don't take any "ancient components" on GEDmatch tests seriously.

Even Davidski himself states on the eurogenes store page the K7 isn’t a completely accurate measure of ANE ancestry.
His Global 25 is pretty accurate though.