Why do Germans dominate the very highest levels of accomplishment?

[Silver Lining]

A discussion between Bruce Charlton and commenter Dearieme here brought up the question of whether or not France, given its long cultural dominance and large population, was underrepresented among the ranks of civilization-making geniuses.

At first I supported Bruce in saying that France was roughly equal to Britain and Germany. In Charles Murray’s book Human Accomplishment, he identifies a total of 4,0002 significant figures in the arts and sciences, and roughly equal numbers of them from the period 1400-1950 come from those three regions. (Italy is a respectable runner-up, but no other region even comes close.)

Upon further consideration, though, it still seemed that there was a qualitative difference between the great Germans and Englishmen on the one hand and the great Frenchmen on the other. As great as Lavoisier and Descartes were, they and their compatriots still seemed to be a notch below the likes of Newton, Shakespeare, Einstein, and Beethoven. So I went back to Human Accomplishment and looked only at the best of the best — the top 72 of the 4,002 greats identified by Murray, those who scored at least 50 on a scale where Shakespeare is 100 and Richard Wright is 1.

Here’s how the nationalities of those 72 super-greats break down:

https://wmjas.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/50-plus-by-country.png



At this level of accomplishment, Germany is clearly in a class of its own, with both France and England lagging behind.

If we lump together countries which are culturally and historically akin, the chart looks like this:

https://wmjas.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/50-plus-by-region.png



The Germans still dominate, and would do so to an even greater degree if the Netherlands (usually considered part of Großdeutschland despite the language difference) were included, but the Anglosphere is now close behind it — and, yes, the French do seem to lag a bit. The real underachiever, though, is Spain — historically one of the most powerful countries in Europe, on par with England and France, but with only a single dubious name to contribute to the ranks of the super-great.

Here are the names of the people represented on the charts above:

Greater Germany
Germany: Beethoven, Einstein, Mozart, Kepler, Koch, Herschel, Bach, Gauss, Goethe, Wagner, Kant, Leibniz, Paul Ehrlich, Dürer
Switzerland: Euler, Paracelsus (both German Swiss)
Poland: Copernicus (German Polish)
Austria: Haydn
The Anglosphere
England: Newton, Darwin, Shakespeare, Faraday, Cavendish, Halley, William Smith, Harvey, J. J. Thomson
Scotland: Lyell, Watt, James Hutton, Maxwell
USA: Edison, Thomas Hunt Morgan
New Zealand: Rutherford
Italy: Galileo, Leonardo, Michelangelo, Raphael, Dante, Titian, Virgil (Roman), Giotto, Bernini, Cassini (Italian French), Marconi
France: Descartes, Lavoisier, Pasteur, Lamarck, Cuvier, Laplace, Fermat, Cezanne
Greece: Aristotle, Hippocrates, Plato, Euclid, Galen, Ptolemy (Greek Egyptian), Homer, Archimedes
Scandinavia
Sweden: Berzelius, Linnaeus, Carl Scheele
Denmark: Tycho, Bohr
Netherlands: Rembrandt, Huygens
Spain: Picasso
Many of the specific fields of art and science catalogued by Murray are dominated by a particular nationality. Below I list all the fields in which a single nationality accounts for at least 50% of the super-greats.

Music: 5/5 (100%) are German (including one Austrian).
Physics: 6/9 (67%) are from the Anglosphere; 4/9 (44%) are from England proper.
Chemistry: 2/3 (67%) are Swedish.
Art: 6/10 (60%) are Italian.
Mathematics: 4/8 (50%) are German (including one German Swiss).
Earth sciences: 2/4 (50%) are Scottish.
Philosophy: 2/4 (50%) are Greek.

source: https://wmjas.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/german-dominance-at-the-very-highest-levels-of-accomplishment/



The German genius is dangerous! Is it because we are the best of all worlds (Slavs, Germanics, Celts?)?

[Peterski]

Einstein was Jewish, so he was not genetically Germanic.

Have you ever seen Ashkenazi Jewish results on GEDmatch?

=====

This website has an expanded dataset compared to that book:

http://pantheon.media.mit.edu/methods

=====

Edit:

A lot of those significant "Germanic" figures were Jewish or partially Jewish.

This is from Charles Murray's book, the same one which this thread is about:

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2018/04/24/the-jewish-question-an-empirical-examiniation/

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/journalism-2.jpg?w=676

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/finance-2.jpg?w=579&h=258

In the early 20th century in Germany Jews were found to account for 22% of millionaires and 31% of multimillionaires (Table 10.6):

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/2.jpg?w=377&h=131

http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/ssive-Jewish-Racist-Discrimination-at-Harvard-Repost_printer.shtml

http://davidduke.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/truth-at-harvard1.jpg

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/poll-jewish-identity.jpg

[Ülev]

finally

:popcorn:

[Silver Lining]

Einstein was still inspired by the German mind.

[Peterski]

As for the Anglosphere:

Why is East Anglia, the most Germanic area, barren of geniuses?:

https://i.imgur.com/zDIJxxt.png

https://i.imgur.com/zDIJxxt.png

Edit:


Einstein was still inspired by the German mind.

In your opening post, you posted data from the book "Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray.

This table is also from the same book: https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

And it shows that out of all countries, Jews outperformed Gentiles the most (namely 22 to 1) in Germany:

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

Which is why you elected Hitler and started the Holocaust - out of jealousy.

Here is what a modern Jewish historian - David Solomon - said about Jews and Germany during one of his lectures:

"(...) The Shoah is not an isolated event. The project to exterminate the Jews of Germany happens here [pointing at the timeline of history], and here, and here, and here, and here, and here. And so people say - so why did Jews keep going back to Germany? Why did Jews keep going back? And I say - look at your own generation. Only half a century after the Holocaust, and what is the largest growing Jewish community in the world outside of Israel? It's Germany. And yet surely the lesson of this entire wall [pointing at the timeline of history] is that Jews should not be living in Germany. We hope and we pray... in the end of the day, in hundreds of years from now, I'm hoping that... well, if I'm starting to explain that more I'm gonna get further and further into problem, so I'm gonna stop, let's go back to history (...)"

Here is the lecture in question (and the excerpt I quoted above starts at 0:55:50 and ends at 0:57:10 of the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM#t=3350


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM

[Silver Lining]

As for the Anglosphere:

Why is East Anglia, the most Germanic area, barren of geniuses?:

https://i.imgur.com/zDIJxxt.png

https://i.imgur.com/zDIJxxt.png

Obviously because they lack the mighty Slavic admixture!

[Peterski]

You are the one making a claim of some innate Germanic superiority, so I'm just asking why is it so inconsistent.

Why is East Anglia - the most Germanic part of Britain - not more successful than more ethnically mixed areas? As for Slavic people, you have to take into account the population size. As of year 1000 AD all Slavic people numbered 6.5 - 9.0 million people (West Slavs: 1.8 - 2.5, South Slavs: 1.2 - 2.0 and East Slavs: 3.5 - 4.5), which was a small population size compared to Western Europe. Even as late as year 1800, there were only 56 million Slavs (28 million Russians, 8 million Ukrainians and Belarusians, 14 million West Slavs and 6 million South Slavs).

Here is the estimated population size of ethnic Poles over time:

1000 AD - 1 million (all Slavs: ca. 6.5 to 9 million)
1600 AD - 5 million
1648 AD - 6 million
1800 AD - 8 million (all Slavs: around 56 million)
1900 AD - 20 million*
2000 AD - 60 million* (all Slavs: ca. 360 million)**

*Including the Polish Diaspora in North America and elsewhere.

**According to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs#Population

[Silver Lining]

Slavs never had this special spark.

[Peterski]

Slavs never had this special spark.

Neither did Jews until around 1750-1800 AD. They started having accomplishments only after that date.

[Silver Lining]

Neither did Jews until around 1750-1800 AD. They started having accomplishments only after that date.

Slavs are too intramixed by now. The true origin of geniuses is the meeting on the fault-line, Nordic and Alpine/Dinarics/East Baltics in Germany, Nordics and Meds in Western Europe/Britain/Northern Italy and ancient Greece. But France, Great Britain and Spain are now only "mass", not class. Poland missed that window and are now only "mass" too. But it seems that the Nordic race is a necessary element in the creation of geniuses.

[Peterski]

What about Amerinds, they had impressive achivements before Columbus and now they are at the bottom of Latin American society:

https://i.imgur.com/tPlaiW4.png

https://i.imgur.com/Qg2qJXo.png

https://i.imgur.com/txLyvGY.png

https://i.imgur.com/kVrP4wG.png

https://i.imgur.com/5UhaxIw.png

[Peterski]

Ancestors of modern Quechuas and Mayas developed civilization on their own, unlike Germanic tribes which adopted it from Rome. In the Old World, as stated in the text I posted above, only Sumerians developed civilization from scratch; others copied from each other.

[Silver Lining]

Sumerians may have been those Neolithic Iranians that also went into the Proto-Indo-Europeans.

[Peterski]

Slavs never had this special spark.

But as I said you need to take into account historical population size.

Slavic lands had a much lower population density than Western Europe.

For year 1000 AD, I found the following estimates for some countries:

France: 6.5 - 9 million
Iberia: 4.6 - 9 million
Italy: 5 - 7 million

In case of Germany, I don't have estimate for 1000 but I have for 1100s AD:

Germany*: 10 - 12 million

*This estimate is for "Altdeutschland" only, excluding Slavic lands east of the Elbe. Those Elbe-Oder Slavs numbered probably 500,000 in total. So they were outnumbered 20 to 1 by the Germans facing them to the west. It makes it quite impressive how long they managed to stay independent and Pagan, despite political fragmentation. Christian Poland and Denmark were also not very friendly towards them.

^^^
Each of these countries alone, had similar population as all Slavs combined:

"Other things being equal, there is a far greater chance of the birth of a man of great ability in a tribe of a million than in one of a thousand. Since one such man may add to the knowledge and improve the habits of the entire group regardless of its size, civilization will progress more rapidly in large than in small groups, in a condition of isolation."

[Silver Lining]

But Slavics lack the masculine energy and intensity of the Germanic people. They are mostly sad and melancholic. German music is influenced by this Eastern mentality.

[Livin]

But Slavics lack the masculine energy and intensity of the Germanic people. They are mostly sad and melancholic. German music is influenced by this Eastern mentality.

Communism symptoms...

[Peterski]

But Slavics lack the masculine energy and intensity of the Germanic people. They are mostly sad and melancholic.

I disagree.

[Silver Lining]

Communism symptoms...

Garbage, that was the stereotype about Slavs even centuries before communism. Stereotype is 80% truth.

[Peterski]

Garbage, that was the stereotype about Slavs even centuries before communism. Stereotype is 80% truth.

If Slavs were so unmanly then why did Polabian Slavs resist Christianization and crusades much longer than Saxons?

Charlemagne smashed Saxons within few years, meanwhile Slavs resisted Christian crusades for about 400 years.

Yet German nationalism always emphasized the bravery of Saxons vs. Franks and downplayed Wendish resistance.

Also World War 2 ended in Berlin, not in Moscow.


Garbage, that was the stereotype about Slavs even centuries before communism.

"Sad and melancholic" mentality emerged in Poland in the 1800s, after the Partitions.

So yes, before Communism but not "centuries before", only about one century before.

[Silver Lining]

lllllll

[Silver Lining]

If Slavs were so unmanly then why did Polabian Slavs resist Christianization and crusades much longer than Saxons?

Charlemagne smashed Saxons within few years, meanwhile Slavs resisted Christian crusades for about 400 years.

Yet German nationalism always emphasized the bravery of Saxons vs. Franks and downplayed Wendish resistance.

Germanic brothers were the priority.





Also World War 2 ended in Berlin, not in Moscow.

Soviet Union was very unslavic in many ways, it wasn't even led by Russians. And without Germanic US-American assistance they would have lost.

Slavs were completely under German control (or had been smashed, Brest-Litowsk) in 1917:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Mitteleuropa_ENG_Leg_wielg%C3%B3rski.PNG
http://i.imgur.com/ubFSXQp.jpg

What a failure. Good for them that Germanic US-Americans came to the rescue.

[Dandelion]

Slavs also speak funny German.

https://youtu.be/zU1rWoc3mTY?t=32m20s

Ironically, the partizan supposedly non-actor speaks the most natural German as he improvises the play he hijacks.

[Peterski]

Melancholic and sad mentality in Poland mainly applies to the region around Warsaw.

They are the ones who celebrate defeats (such as 1944 Warsaw Rising) more than victories.

We here in "Posen" celebrate victories such as our uprising against German rule in 1918-19:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud0UpWU-SzA

Map of battles and combats:

https://i.imgur.com/kEhajjJ.png

http://www.polishroots.org/portals/0/genpoland/images/pos.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvTqCPxma7s

Also many German-descended Poles fought and died in that uprising, including:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?245073-Battles-of-Greater-Poland-Uprising-1918-1919

8. Albrecht Stanisław
36. Apelbaum Roman
40. Bajer Leon
83. Bauza Jerzy
97. Becker Stanisław
104. Bernau Kazimierz
112. Bierwagen Henryk
145. Böhm Władysław
169. Bötcher Ignacy
170. Brajer Jan
171. Brauer Michał
172. Braun Franciszek
179. Brungart Stanisław
254. Codrow (mother's surname: Szulc) Józef
294. Eichstaedt (later changed to Dąbrowski) Stefan
300. Deier Michał
305. Deutsch Kazimierz
306. Deutsch Kazimierz (2nd)
317. Doecker Jan
353. Düsterhöf Michał
368. Estrych Augustyn
373. Felgebel Leon
375. Fender Brunon
379. Fietzner Władysław
388. Finc Ignacy
390. Fiszer Edward
391. Fiszer Józef
392. Flieger Stefan
398. Franke Władysław
411. Frischke Marian
412. Froehlich
413. Fromm Wiktor
423. Galant Wincenty
441. Gehrka Władysław
449. Gimpertowicz Józef
455. Glasner Wacław
456. Glüger
510. Gross Konrad
519. Grützmacher Edmund
539. Gunderman Tadeusz
547. Haller Czesław
554. Hasse Konstanty
556. Heinsch Jan
557. Heintsch Augustyn
559. Heller Aleksander
562. Henke Wiktor
563. Henschke Józef
565. Herzog Leon
567. Hoffman Marian
568. Hoffman Michał
570. Hoppel Wincenty
581. Ikert Józef
582. Ilart Jan
588. Jachman Walenty
605. Janke Stanisław
611. Jansen Henryk
632. Jauer Józef
635. Jenchen Antoni
657. Juhnke Leon
691. Kalke W.
708. Karge Józef
720. Katella
721. Kaus Jan
722. Kaus Władysław
723. Kauzug Stanisław
748. Kierstein Roman Franciszek
754. Klatt Jan
756. Kleiber Stanisław
764. Klinger Jan
778. Knak Wojciech
779. Knappe Leon
780. Koch Henryk
781. Koch Stanisław
805. Konitzer Leon
830. Koschel Karol
875. Kracner Franciszek
879. Kranc Alojzy
880. Krauke Andrzej
881. Krause Edmund
882. Krause Michał
883. Krenc Leonard
884. Krentz Wojciech
935. Kuffel Ludwik
953. Kunert Józef
965. Kurzerl Józef
971. Kutschenreiter Otto
983. Kycler Walenty
985. Lasch (later changed to Lacek)
986. Lachera Piotr
987. Lachera Stanisław
988. Lacherny Walenty
990. Lang Wiktor
992. Lautenszlager Grzegorz
995. Leister Wawrzyn
997. Lekier Wincenty
1017. Liebest (Lübest)
1026. Lorenc Andrzej
1027. Lorenc Wacław
1081. Maeusel (Maensel) Seweryn
1082. Miaeusel Stanisław
1090. Majerowicz Mieczysław
1114. Mann Korneliusz
1128. Martinek Jan
1156. Meller Aleksander
1158. Mencel Jan
1159. Mencel Stanisław
1160. Mencel Wincenty
1165. Mettler Władysław
1197. Minczke Paweł
1209. Moellenbrock Józef
1212. Morison Franciszek
1221. Müller Ferdynand
1222. Müller Marian
1223. Münschke Paweł
1473. Otto Jan
1485. Paetzold Stanisław
1497. Pauter (Panter) Franciszek
1503. Paschke (Paszke) Edmund
1504. Paschke (Paszke) Józef
1536. Peterknehl Adolf
1568. Pikel Józef
1592. Pohl Stanisław
1615. Preis Aleksander
1637. Putz Stanisław
1666. Rau Jan
1667. Rausch Władysław
1671. Reich Piotr
1672. Reinsz Wincenty
1675. Richter Franciszek
1676. Rissmann Wiktor
1687. Romel Walenty
1726. Rysman (Rissmann) Wiktor
1727. Ryster Władysław
1738. Schmidt (Szmyt) Franciszek
1739. Seiler Maksymilian
1740. Seker (Secker) Wincenty
1746. Sewohl Anna
1748. Siebert Stanisław
1803. Snella Franciszek
1804. Snella Jan
1805. Snella Wincenty
1822. Sommer Franciszek
1827. Specht Józef
1828. Speier (Speyer) Jakub
1829. Springer Jan
1848. Steinberg Paweł
1850. Stelter Ernest
1861. Streck Gustaw
1868. Stürmer Andrzej
1901. Szeffler
1902. Szefner Franciszek
1904. Szemberg Marian
1913. Szmidereit Michał
1914. Szmytkowski Władysław
1920. Szrajter Władysław
1922. Szturmer Andrzej
1926. Szulc Stefan
1927. Szulczyński Jan
1928. Szulz Stanisław
1929. Szulz Władysław
1931. Szwajerek Marcin
1955. Szymlet Stanisław
1986. Tabat Tomasz
1993. Tamul (Tammel) Szczepan
2000. Tetzlaff Władysław
2001. Thiede Bruno
2002. Thomas Stanisław
2006. Tomas Henryk
2007. Tomas Jan
2034. Tycner Walenty
2049. Vogt Piotr
2055. Wachtel Mariusz Józef
2056. Wagnerowski Marcin
2077. Wandt Leon
2078. Wangenmann Józef
2096. Weber Antoni
2097. Weber Marian
2098. Wechterowicz Józef
2099. Wegnerowski Marcin
2100. Weiman Franciszek
2101. Weinkauf Franciszek
2102. Weis Jan
2103. Weis Kazimierz
2104. Weiss Franciszek
2105. Wejman Adam
2106. Wekert Edmund
2107. Welke Ignacy
2110. Wendland Franciszek
2125. Wick Ludwik
2150. Wilhelm Franciszek
2151. Wilhelm Stefan
2152. Wilke Benjamin
2174. Witmann Ludwik
2175. Wittmann Stefan
2176. Wiza Wacław
2177. Wize Jędrzej
2260. Zerbst Julian
2279. Zyber Wojciech

https://ome-lexikon.uni-oldenburg.de/fileadmin/user_upload/omelexikon/bilder/Grosspolen/K_34_II_L_21.jpg

[Ülev]

nvmd

[Livin]

Garbage, that was the stereotype about Slavs even centuries before communism. Stereotype is 80% truth.

I watch bulgars every Day and they are so depressed. They rarely smile....

[Peterski]

Units from Posen played a crucial role in the Polish-Soviet War of 1920-1921, including Warsaw 1920.

We created an army here without help from Piłsudski (who was Pro-German), and then we helped him.


Melancholic and sad mentality in Poland mainly applies to the region around Warsaw.

They are the ones who celebrate defeats (such as 1944 Warsaw Rising) more than victories.

Fun fact:

The Warsaw Uprising 1944 was more of an uprising against the Commies / Soviets, than against the Germans.

Here is what historian Paweł Jasienica wrote about it: "The Warsaw Uprising was militarily against the Germans, politically against the Soviets, demonstratively against the Anglo-Saxons, and in fact - against Poland."

It was against everyone, and it was doomed to fail, because Stalin did not have any reasons to help Warsaw.

[Silver Lining]

Units from Posen played a crucial role in the Polish-Soviet War of 1920-1921, including Warsaw 1920.

We created an army here without help from Piłsudski (who was Pro-German), and then we helped him.

Why don't you comment on the total Slavic failure of 1917?

[Peterski]

Why don't you comment on the total Slavic failure of 1917?

Poles fought in German, Russian, Austrian armies, often against each other!

My great-grandfather for example fought at Verdun 1915 in the German Army.

[Peterski]

For Poles the outcome of WW1 was very lucky - all 3 Partitioners, Russia, Austria and Germany - were defeated.

Imagine an alternative WW2 in which both Germany and the USSR get defeated, and this is how WW1 ended for us.

[Teutone]

Peterski why you gotta change the topic of every thread to Poland?

Manage to get Poland being a relevant country on the world stage you autist with an inferior complex.

Great Thread Silver!

[Peterski]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Mitteleuropa_ENG_Leg_wielg%C3%B3rski.PNG
Why don't you comment on the total Slavic failure of 1917?

Here is a good comment about it, written back in 1930:

"Ukraine in German Politics

The ease with which the Viennese political circles transformed the narrow, local notion of the Rus into the broad notion of Ukraine and thus transformed the internal and domestic Austrian question of the Rus into an international Ukrainian question is astounding. It would have been completely incomprehensible if not for the deep change which took place in our contemporary world towards the end of the XIX century in the situation of the Habsburg monarchy.

The Austro-Hungarian alliance, tied to the Germans for many years, transformed their alliance into a deeper, more unitary one which helped both the Hungarian and the German monarchy—threatened as they were by other nations—and gave them a strong level of support in the form of a German Reich. Secondly, the goal was to subject Austro-Hungarian diplomacy in terms of domestic politics to the dictate of the German Kaiser. This explains why all of the motions and activities undertaken by Austro-Hungary at the time, which could not be explained or understood by anyone in Vienna, were understood perfectly well in Berlin.

At the time, Pan-Germanic literature undertook the work to imagine for themselves a conceptual framework for a new state—the state of a great Ukraine. A German consulate was opened in Lvov, not for German citizen services, because there were no German citizens in such large numbers in Eastern Galicia, but for the express purpose of undertaking political cooperation with the Ukrainians, which in fact, was publically acknowledged. Another matter that came to light was the lively activity of the Germans in the Eastern Kres (Ostmarkenverein) and the groups the Germans founded there to combat Poles. It turned out to be the case that whenever the Ukrainian question came up, the center of gravity in these affairs constantly wandered from Vienna to Berlin.

The question arises now: why did the Germans, who had no Russian people in their state, take such a keen interest in the fate of the Russian peoples in Austro-Hungary? It could not have been some idealistic, altruistic desire to support a newly reborn nation, but rather was the direct result of German territorial ambitions. It was all about prosecuting the German interest—but against whom?

In the time leading up to the World War, the Germans looked upon Russia as an area to be dominated, an area to be exploited economically and a legitimate area of German political dominance. Even outside of the borders of Germany, Russia was often treated as a part of the German Empire. From this point of view, the Germans sought to weaken Russia both politically and economically: the German aim was to make Russia incapable of challenging Germany in any area.

At the end of the XIX century, Russia, who once saw the primary riches of the Low-Russian (“Ukrainian”) lands in terms of their excellent farm lands, began to eagerly exploit the large amounts of steel and coal there and build the basis of Russian industry on these lands. This industrial development was not only meant to serve the needs of the Russian nation, but for export to Eastern markets. For Germany, this meant not only a reduction of the Russian market for German exports, but also a new Russian competitor in the Asian market.

On the other hand, the Germans, towards the end of the XIX century, strengthened their position in Turkey and undertook the total subjugation of Turkey. The position of Russia was a great barrier to German ambitions, particularly the Russian position on the Black Sea and Russian access to the Balkans. All of these barriers and dangers to German imperial ambitions would be easily erased by the bold idea of creating an independent, huge Ukrainian state. Moreover, considering the cultural and national element of Ukraine as particularly weak, given the lack of Ukrainian unity, the existence of such vastly different ethnic groups within Ukraine, who had absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine, the large amount of Jews populating Ukraine, and finally the large amount of German colonists in Crimea and Chersonshchire—the Germans could be absolutely sure that the new Ukrainian state would be unable to muster its own united national policy, and remain under total and absolute German control, with German control of its economic production and of its politics.

Thus, independent Ukraine was conceived and manufactured as an economic and political branch of the German Empire.

Russia, without Ukraine, would be without wheat and steal. Russia without Ukraine would remain a territorially large state, but an extremely weak economy. Russia, without Ukraine, would have no chance at economic independence. Russia, without Ukraine, would forever be dependent on Germany. Cut off from the Black Sea and the Balkans, Russia would no longer be able to affect German ambitions against Turkey and the Balkan states. These territories would come under absolute German control, and under the control of the German servants—the Habsburgs. From the point of view of German political aims towards Russia—the greatest achievement of German Imperial politics would no doubt be the creation of a large, independent Ukraine.

There were, however, another people—next to the Russian people—against whom the Germans hatched their Ukrainian plan in order to save German Imperialism.

When the Polish question, having arisen briefly in the second half of the XIX century, ceased to be of general concern in international affairs and became the internal affair of the three Great Powers who partitioned Poland, only German politics looked upon the Polish problem with open eyes. Germany did not share the optimism of the Russians and the Austrians and never ceased to fear the return of the Polish question to the international stage. Bismark did not hide this, and Bulov openly said that Germany is not only at war with “her Poles” but with “the entire Polish nation.”

Germans understood that the fast pace of progress in their political ambitions in the world would lead to a great war. Moments of great tensions between the Great Powers are characterized by the fact that matters which are silent and serene in peace time explode onto the international stage in war. The Polish question was not even that serene in peace time, and thus the prospect for its re-emergence was high. Towards the end of the XIX century, the movement towards Polish political rebirth picked up pace; it existed and was organized in all three of the partitioned spaces. On the territory of the three partitions, one giant national independence movement had been organized. As testimony of its political maturity, it spoke in a language of statesmanship that was truly political, one long unheard of on Polish lands.

The rise of Poland on the international stage, as a great nation, would be—for German imperial ambitions—a great failure. If it was not possible to simply annihilate the Polish nation, it was necessary to make Poland a petty nation, rather than a great nation. The simplest and most effective way to make Poland into a petty, small, ineffective nation—was to manufacture and create a nation called “Ukraine,” encompassing large swaths of Polish lands where the Russian language is spoken within Ukrainian borders.

Thus, for the German Reich, the idea of manufacturing a Ukrainian nation-state was a way to strike a massive blow against both Poland and Russia. This plan was executed on paper. That paper was the treaty, signed in 1918, in Brest-Litovsk by an artificial ad hoc delegation of the Ukrainian republic and Germany, Austro-Hungary, Turkey and Bulgaria. It remained on paper because Germany, in 1918, was only powerful enough to enforce its imperial ambitions on pieces of paper. It remains today as a testament of the German Reich, awaiting that some Germans will arise to execute it in the post-war world."

Source: http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/07/ukraine-question-1930-part.html

[Cristiano viejo]

Where is Cervantes??

[Peterski]

Soviet Union was very unslavic in many ways, it wasn't even led by Russians. And without Germanic US-American assistance they would have lost.

Many people in Soviet leadership were Communist Poles like Wanda Wasilewska, still Slavic even if not Russian.

And the Axis was not fully Germanic either - half of Europe supported Germany, including many South Slavic and West Slavic (Axis Slovakia) nations, as well as Romanians, Hungarians, Italians, etc. Also Spanish Blue Division and Nazi West Ukrainian volunteers, etc.

American help was actually not essential, the war was decided already in 1942 - after Stalingrad and Caucasus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3A2BWgyjA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3A2BWgyjA

[Slavic Italian]

Many people in Soviet leadership were Communist Poles like Wanda Wasilewska, still Slavic even if not Russian.

And the Axis was not fully Germanic either - half of Europe supported Germany, including many South Slavic and West Slavic (Axis Slovakia) nations, as well as Romanians, Hungarians, Italians, etc. Also Spanish Blue Division and Nazi West Ukrainian volunteers, etc.

American help was actually not essential, the war was decided already in 1942 - after Stalingrad and Caucasus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3A2BWgyjA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3A2BWgyjA

Bullshit. Go and look at all the steel and fuel the USA provided Russia with. 14,000 Sherman tanks that took part in the battles at Hungary and Austria. Not to mention go look at what the Germans lost in France the following month after the D Day landings.

[Teutone]

Also USA stopped Germany from concentrate on a single front.

But why we talking about Poland, Nazi Germany or Soviet union?

Oh Peterski was here

[Slavic Italian]

German losses during Operation Overlord. Germany would have won this war and the great war had we stayed out of it.


288,695 to 530,000 casualties
2,127 aircraft
1,500 to 2,400 tanks and assault guns lost

[Joso]

they are not, most of german inventors were jews

[Peterski]

Bullshit. Go and look at all the steel and fuel the USA provided Russia with. 14,000 Sherman tanks that took part in the battles at Hungary and Austria. Not to mention go look at what the Germans lost in France the following month after the D Day landings.

And Germany was provided with thousands of Slavic tanks from Czech factories.

In June 1941 German invasion force had 3450 tanks, of which 815 Czech (24%).

German tanks deployed against the USSR in June 1941:

Pz-IV - 480
Pz-III - 1065
Pz-38(t) & 35(t) - 815
Pz-II - 750
Pz-I - 340

^^^ In total 2635 Germanic tanks and 815 Slavic tanks.

[Teutone]

they are not, most of german inventors were jews

most? Haha what a joke, some were and benefit from German schools and envirorment.

There are almost no jews here for 80years and we still are in the top 5 of inventers.

3rd Reich had incredibly technological inventions without any jews.

Neverless Jews are brilliant minds.

[Teutone]

And Germany was provided with thousands of Slavic tanks from Czech factories.

In June 1941 German invasion force had 3450 tanks, of which 815 Czech (24%).

Who invented the technology of those tanks? Czechs ?hajahshsha they just followed the plans and build them together

[Joso]

most? Haha what a joke, some were and benefit from German schools and envirorment.

There are almost no jews here for 80years and we still are in the top 5 of inventers.

3rd Reich had incredibly technological inventions without any jews.

Neverless Jews are brilliant minds.

Ok then

[Teutone]

German losses during Operation Overlord. Germany would have won this war and the great war had we stayed out of it.


288,695 to 530,000 casualties
2,127 aircraft
1,500 to 2,400 tanks and assault guns lost

I wonder why everyone is playing down tje American impact on ww2 lately

[Slavic Italian]

I wonder why everyone is playing down tje American impact on ww2 lately

Because of our recent poor decisions. We fought in Europe, North Africa, and Pacific all at the same time. Nobody else can say that. Russia showed up in the Pacific after defeat of Nazis.

[Peterski]

Who invented the technology of those tanks?

Czechs. BTW these two models of Soviet tanks in June 1941 were better than German tanks:

KV (1 and 2) - 582
T-34 - 1200

^^^ German Panzer III and Panzer IV were more numerous, but inferior to KV1-2 and T-34.

[Teutone]

Because of our recent poor decisions. We fought in Europe, North Africa, and Pacific all at the same time. Nobody else can say that. Russia showed up in the Pacific after defeat of Nazis.

I am glad my region was captured by Americans instead of the mongol soviet hordes.

[Slavic Italian]

Czechs. By the way these types Soviet tanks in June 1941 were better than German tanks:

KV (1 and 2) - 582
T-34 - 1200

^^^ German Panzer III and Panzer IV were more numerous, but inferior to KV and T-34.

Everybody knows that but the Germans were still managing against them well tactically.

[Peterski]

Everybody knows that but the Germans were still managing against them well tactically.

The Soviet Union was taken by surprise, they were not ready for a defensive war.

Remember that Germans were their allies and friends between 1939 and 1941:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFTtuHxxBLo

[Slavic Italian]

The Soviet Union was taken by surprise, they were not ready for a defensive war.

Remember that Germans were their allies and friends between 1939 and 1941:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFTtuHxxBLo

They knew it was coming. Look at all the armor the Germans just happened to run into.

[Teutone]

Czechs. BTW these two models of Soviet tanks in June 1941 were better than German tanks:

KV (1 and 2) - 582
T-34 - 1200

^^^ German Panzer III and Panzer IV were more numerous, but inferior to KV1-2 and T-34.

You make yourself to a clown more and more, fanatic pan slavism is a disease and you suffer under it

Ever heard of Daimler or Porsche?

Also EVERYONE neutral agrees on the fact that the german tanks had way better quality while soviets only had quantity

[Slavic Italian]

You make yourself to a clown more and more, fanatic pan slavism is a disease and you suffer under it

Ever heard of Daimler or Porsche?

Also EVERYONE neutral agrees on the fact that the german tanks had way better quality while soviets only haf quantity

They try to claim Soviet armor was better early on but yet they could not win a battle.

[Peterski]

Some say that the Soviets in 1941 were preparing to invade Germany, but Germans were faster with their preemptive attack.

Not sure if true, but it is certainly true that the Soviets were not prepared to fight in defence.

[Peterski]

Also EVERYONE neutral agrees on the fact that the german tanks had way better quality

After you introduced Panthers and Tigers, which was by the end of the war. Not in 1941.

[Gründig]

Peterski why you gotta change the topic of every thread to Poland?

Manage to get Poland being a relevant country on the world stage you autist with an inferior complex.

Great Thread Silver!

I can't tell who he's more obsessed with, the polish or Germans.

Today alone he made 2 and bumped 1 older thread all referencing Germans LOL

[Peterski]

They knew it was coming. Look at all the armor the Germans just happened to run into.

When you prepare for defence you build fortifications and trenches, not move all your tanks towards the border. Tanks are also useful in defence but only for counterattacks, so you keep them in reserve in less vulnerable places. The Soviets were preparing for offensive and concentrated all that armor near the border in exposed and vulnerable areas, so they became easy targets for Luftwaffe in first days of the war.

All these Stuka bomber aces who are credited with destroying 100+ tanks each, scored most of it in June 1941.

[Slavic Italian]

After you introduced Panthers and Tigers, which was by the end of the war. Not in 1941.

1943 at Kursk.

[Ülev]

why Poles, who entered so called "recovered territories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered_Territories)" have had electricity in every village and villages in central Poland were electrificed as late as the 1970-ties?

let's keep things real

1971 Elektryfikacja wsi, budowa drogi asfaltowej. / 1971 Electrification of the village, construction of an asphalt road.
http://kiedosy.osp.org.pl/?pid=13

mainly because those territories were under Russian partition, more East more harsh conditions
Electrification of East Prussia 1920 - 1945 for example

[Peterski]

Who invented the technology of those tanks? Czechs ?

This guy did: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/01/23/czechoslovak-tank-design-legend-alexej-surin/

Ethnically Ukrainian and born in Ukraine but worked for Czechoslovakia.

[Loki]

Why is East Anglia - the most Germanic part of Britain - not more successful than more ethnically mixed areas?

This is a disingenuous statement that reflects a lack of insight into England/Britain's population settlement, history and dynamics.

The Germanic Angles and Saxons "invaded" and settled Britain from their entry points on the East Anglia coast mostly... but most of them did not actually remain there, East Anglia has always been sparsely populated in comparison with other parts of England, partially due to the geography. Mostly small towns are found in East Anglia, quite spread out and mostly on the coast. Also, there were Celtic tribes inhabiting the area even after the Anglo-Saxons moved in, so they mixed with them there, whilst the majority moved on elsewhere. Most of the Anglo-Saxon and other Germanic settlers settled in the city areas like London, Cambridge, York, etc etc... and not in rural East Anglia. So... it is hardly surprising that the brightest English are not found today in East Anglia... but rather in the cities, where most of the bright and wealthy people moved to throughout history.

Northern England is more Germanic than East Anglia. I have personally travelled to these areas too, and seen many towns in East Anglia. None of them struck me as particularly "Nordish"... not comparable to places like York and Newcastle.

[Peterski]

This is a disingenuous statement

No it is not, it is based on autosomal DNA and Y-DNA data in modern population.

[Teutone]

This guy did: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/01/23/czechoslovak-tank-design-legend-alexej-surin/

Ethnically Ukrainian and born in Ukraine but worked for Czechoslovakia.

He partly played a role in the fucking Pnazer 38 that was so shitty it wasnt used anymore after 1942 you clown

[Teutone]

I can't tell who he's more obsessed with, the polish or Germans.

Today alone he made 2 and bumped 1 older thread all referencing Germans LOL

I dont know where this is coming from?

No other Polish member is so obsessed with Germans and no German member is so obsessed with Polish people.

Mabye he has some serious complex

[Peterski]

He partly played a role in the fucking Pnazer 38 that was so shitty it wasnt used anymore after 1942 you clown

Wrong. Germanic Swedish Army continued to use one of its variants - called Strv m/41 - until the 1970s.

[New user]

Jews, lots of Jews. A bunch of German theories were invented by Jews. Bosch actually warned Hitler that German science would be set back 100 years if Jews were expelled.

[Teutone]

Wrong. Germanic Swedish Army continued to use one of its variants - called Strv m/41 - until the 1970s.

Brace yourself for the mighty Swedish army

hahhahaha

[Teutone]

Jews, lots of Jews. A bunch of German theories were invented by Jews.

How many Jews lived in Germany the past years?

Why Germans are still in the top 5 of most significant inventions?

Where the most groundbreaking German scientists and inventors like Heisenberg, Nicolaus Otto, Von Braun, Daimler, Gutenberg Geiger, Hertz the fucking list goes on and on jewish?

[Aspirin]

Why do Germans dominate the very highest levels of accomplishment?

Nordic blood

[Peterski]

How many Jews lived in Germany the past years?

Jews were 1% of the population in Germany but they controlled the country.

This is from Charles Murray's book, the same one which this thread is about:

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2018/04/24/the-jewish-question-an-empirical-examiniation/

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/journalism-2.jpg?w=676

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/finance-2.jpg?w=579&h=258

In the early 20th century in Germany Jews were found to account for 22% of millionaires and 31% of multimillionaires (Table 10.6):

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/2.jpg?w=377&h=131

http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/ssive-Jewish-Racist-Discrimination-at-Harvard-Repost_printer.shtml

http://davidduke.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/truth-at-harvard1.jpg

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/poll-jewish-identity.jpg

[Teutone]

Jews were 1% of the population in Germany but they controlled the country.

This is from Charles Murray's book, the same one which this thread is about:

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

https://ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2018/04/24/the-jewish-question-an-empirical-examiniation/

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/journalism-2.jpg?w=676

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/finance-2.jpg?w=579&h=258

In the early 20th century in Germany Jews were found to account for 22% of millionaires and 31% of multimillionaires (Table 10.6):

https://ideasanddata.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/2.jpg?w=377&h=131

http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/ssive-Jewish-Racist-Discrimination-at-Harvard-Repost_printer.shtml

http://davidduke.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/truth-at-harvard1.jpg

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/poll-jewish-identity.jpg

All your reply is irrelevant due to your personal failure of reading my post.

1870-1950 are the past years?

Well no suprise if you think so, since all the evidence you can provide for your laughable theories mostly come from medieval maps :D

[Peterski]

You stupid or what? In the OP Silver Lining posted data from "Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray.

This table is also from the same book: https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

And it shows that out of all countries, Jews outperformed Gentiles the most (namely 22 to 1) in Germany:

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

Which is why you elected Hitler and started the Holocaust - out of jealousy.

[Teutone]

Are you stupid or what? Silver Lining posted data from "Human Accomplishment" by Charles Murray.

This table is also from the same book: https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

And it shows that out of all countries, Jews outperformed Gentiles the most (namely 22 to 1) in Germany:

https://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/murray-jewish-accomplishment.png

Are you stupid? those chart play NO ROLE at all in the reply I made to that member, pointing out that the Germans are still famous inventors and scientists after 1945.

Maybe you check the context of the post you reply to, fucking idiot.

[Silver Lining]

LOL, Poland had more jews.

[Teutone]

LOL, Poland had more jews.

Still lack of acomplishement, inventions or scientists compared to the Germanic subhuman nations that are inferior to the mighty slavs.

[Ülev]

I found that
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253002-Judeo-Polonia-the-1918-Zionist-concept-of-Israel-in-Poland

[Gründig]

Either peterski is trolling or he has mental issues.

[Peterski]

Are you stupid? those chart play NO ROLE at all in the reply I made to that member, pointing out that the Germans are still famous inventors and scientists after 1945.

Because today, after 1945, your country is full of Jews once again! They keep going back to Germany.

Here is what a modern Jewish historian - David Solomon - said about Jews and Germany during one of his lectures:

"(...) The Shoah is not an isolated event. The project to exterminate the Jews of Germany happens here [pointing at the timeline of history], and here, and here, and here, and here, and here. And so people say - so why did Jews keep going back to Germany? Why did Jews keep going back? And I say - look at your own generation. Only half a century after the Holocaust, and what is the largest growing Jewish community in the world outside of Israel? It's Germany. And yet surely the lesson of this entire wall [pointing at the timeline of history] is that Jews should not be living in Germany. We hope and we pray... in the end of the day, in hundreds of years from now, I'm hoping that... well, if I'm starting to explain that more I'm gonna get further and further into problem, so I'm gonna stop, let's go back to history (...)"

Here is the lecture in question (and the excerpt I quoted above starts at 0:55:50 and ends at 0:57:10 of the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM#t=3350


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM

[Teutone]

I found that
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253002-Judeo-Polonia-the-1918-Zionist-concept-of-Israel-in-Poland

Why would Jews want to return if they got sunny and developed Israel now? :D

Btw before Peterski implies this.

Noone here denied that Jews are brilliant minds, doesnt change the fact that Germans are no cavemen either.

[Teutone]

Because today, after 1945, your country is full of Jews once again! They keep going back to Germany.

Here is what a modern Jewish historian - David Solomon - said about Jews and Germany during one of his lectures:

"(...) The Shoah is not an isolated event. The project to exterminate the Jews of Germany happens here [pointing at the timeline of history], and here, and here, and here, and here, and here. And so people say - so why did Jews keep going back to Germany? Why did Jews keep going back? And I say - look at your own generation. Only half a century after the Holocaust, and what is the largest growing Jewish community in the world outside of Israel? It's Germany. And yet surely the lesson of this entire wall [pointing at the timeline of history] is that Jews should not be living in Germany. We hope and we pray... in the end of the day, in hundreds of years from now, I'm hoping that... well, if I'm starting to explain that more I'm gonna get further and further into problem, so I'm gonna stop, let's go back to history (...)"

Here is the lecture in question (and the excerpt I quoted above starts at 0:55:50 and ends at 0:57:10 of the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM#t=3350

Hahahahahahaha

OFFICIAL government data says otherwise

I made a list of some examples of Groundbreaking inventors and scientists that are known all over the world and none of those was Jewish.

Of the German nobel price winners after 1945 almost NOONE was jewish, my inferor complex friend.

[Peterski]

LOL, Poland had more jews.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2hCH5ANJBE

[Teutone]

Either peterski is trolling or he has mental issues.

I fear its the mental issue, famous inferior complex.

[Peterski]

Skip to 5 minutes 33 seconds - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2hCH5ANJBE&t=5m33s

And this was done against Polish Catholics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion

[Teutone]

Skip to 5 minutes 33 seconds - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2hCH5ANJBE&t=5m33s

Why should we? All you say has nothing to do with the current point of the discussion.

Mighty high IQ Polak.

[New user]

How many Jews lived in Germany the past years?

Why Germans are still in the top 5 of most significant inventions?

Where the most groundbreaking German scientists and inventors like Heisenberg, Nicolaus Otto, Von Braun, Daimler, Gutenberg Geiger, Hertz the fucking list goes on and on jewish?


Set theory
Theory of relativity
Multiple contributions to Quantum theory.
Haber process (estimated that Haber's contributions saved over 2 billion lives across the globe)
Penicillin
Modular representation theory
Petrol driven motor car before Benz and Daimler (this one, Siegfried Marcus nazis tried to remove from encylopedias, and destroyed his work, replacing his name with Benz and Daimler as the first inventors of the car)
Blood transfusions

We can go on and on. Of course gentiles contributed as well, obviously. But Jews had a HEAVY impact on German science, and mathematics despite making up so little of the population, possibly more than they did any other nation in Europe, there were so many that often gentile scientist were mistaken for Jewish.

[Peterski]

Your Pan-Germanism is toxic to everyone.

[Teutone]

Set theory
Theory of relativity
Multiple contributions to Quantum theory.
Haber process (estimated that Haber's contributions saved over 2 billion lives across the globe)
Penicillin
Modular representation theory
Petrol driven motor car before Benz and Daimler (this one, Siegfried Marcus nazis tried to remove from encylopedias, and destroyed his work, replacing his name with Benz and Daimler as the first inventors of the car)
Blood transfusions

We can go on and on. Of course gentiles contributed as well, obviously. But Jews had a HEAVY impact on German science, and mathematics despite making up so little of the population, possibly more than they did any other nation in Europe, there were so many that often gentile scientist were mistaken for Jewish.

I never denied the jewish greatness in science, what you try is to underestimate the German greatness in science, thats the difference. My list is still out there.

[Teutone]

Your Pan-Germanism is toxic to everyone.

Noone ever complained about it, I stay away from slavic threads and slavic topics.

Totally the opposite of you. I see you as irrelevant.

[Peterski]

Noone ever complained about it, I stay away from slavic threads and slavic topics.

Totally the opposite of you. I see you as irrelevant.

This is not a "Germanic thread", but a dick-waving "we are better than everyone else" Pan-Germanic thread.

[Ülev]

.......

[Teutone]

This is not a "Germanic thread", but a dick-waving "we are better than everyone else" Pan-Germanic thread.

I agree the thread title is a big provoking, but why dont you wonder anyone else is going of the hook like you and as always change the topic to Poland?

Everyone sees how you always take a thread and invade it with your polish fantasies and talking down other ethnicites.

This thread was no insult to Poland or related to it, yet you still feel offended. Maybe you like being offended like a fat SJW.

[Peterski]

I changed it because Silver Lining started his provocations and started trolling Slavs when discussion was about Britain.

I was talking about Britain and asked about East Anglia, he mentioned Slavic people instead of responding to my point.

It is funny that you cannot see that how you, Pan-Germanic Slav-haters, respond to my posts, is based on my ethnicity.

If I register another account and claim to be from - for example - France, a response to my question would not be off-topic.

[Teutone]

I changed it because Silver Lining started his provocations and started trolling Slavs when discussion was about Britain.

I was talking about Britain and asked about East Anglia, he mentioned Slavic people instead of responding to my point.

It is funny that you cannot see that how you, Pan-Germanic Slav-haters, respond to my posts, is based on my ethnicity.

If I register another account and claim to be from - for example - France, a response to my question would not be off-topic.

Sure you only change the topic when provokeed sure Peterski.

If you refuse to selfreflect, well then let it be.


When you not on a anti-German rant or change every thread to your poland theories, I respect and like to read your posts neverless.

Have a nice evening.

[War Chef]

4,0002 significant figures in the arts and sciences

Who is deciding if they are significant or not? Lots of significant ideas that contributed to civilization came from Eastern European countries, simply no-one bragged about it.

Those who control the pen, write the history.

[Thorfinn]

Ancestors of modern Quechuas and Mayas developed civilization on their own, unlike Germanic tribes which adopted it from Rome. In the Old World, as stated in the text I posted above, only Sumerians developed civilization from scratch; others copied from each other.
I love the Germans for their modern achievements, but I must admit that the Germans are the lackeys of ancient Rome. Slavs themselves developed their civilization and created their own state. The Arabs created their own States. The Germans occupied the best lands in Europe, never experienced external aggression, as on all sides they were surrounded by the Slavs, who were a shield for the Germans. The Huns, Hungarians, Mongols, Bulgarians were primarily beaten by the Slavs to the Germans they got.

[Peterski]

Those who control the pen, write the history.

Exactly! And Slavs were still illiterate when they made one of the most revolutionary inventions, the heavy plough:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?227111-Early-Slavic-invention-which-revolutionized-the-world

Probably some Anon Slavoyski was the inventor of the heavy plough, we don't even really know his name though.

[Mingle]

But why we talking about Poland, Nazi Germany or Soviet union?

Oh Peterski was here

To be fair, the first person to mention Slavs was the OP in post #6.

[Slavic Italian]

I dont know where this is coming from?

No other Polish member is so obsessed with Germans and no German member is so obsessed with Polish people.

Mabye he has some serious complex

He wants you guys to accept him. He sent me a bunch of rep comments yesterday. This is one of them.

Based on DNA Tribes I'm more Germanic than you, so... stop ironically calling me a German.

[Slavic Italian]

Peterski I want too see your tribes calculation. This is my updated one as of today from the Ancestry DNA upgrade.

Balto-North Slavic 34.3%
Northwest European 27.1%
Italian Greek 14.4%
Iberian 7.1%
Basque 5%
Balkan 4%
North African 4%
Persian Jewish 1.7%
Caucasus 1.6%
Other 0.8%

[War Chef]

Why the fuck would you want to be a workaholic fanatic (German) anyway?

[Dick]

Peterski I want too see your tribes calculation. This is my updated one as of today from the Ancestry DNA upgrade.

Balto-North Slavic 34.3%
Northwest European 27.1%
Italian Greek 14.4%
Iberian 7.1%
Basque 5%
Balkan 4%
North African 4%
Persian Jewish 1.7%
Caucasus 1.6%
Other 0.8%

you ancestrydna raw data changed?

[Peterski]

Why the fuck would you want to be a workaholic fanatic (German) anyway?

I'm not a German. He was calling me a German trying to offend me.


Peterski I want too see your tribes calculation. This is my updated one as of today from the Ancestry DNA upgrade.

Balto-North Slavic 34.3%
Northwest European 27.1%
Italian Greek 14.4%
Iberian 7.1%
Basque 5%
Balkan 4%
North African 4%
Persian Jewish 1.7%
Caucasus 1.6%
Other 0.8%

Here you go. My upload is from last year (FTDNA raw data transfer):

My Admixture Analysis:

http://i.imgur.com/tRXj0Ku.png
Northwest European 42%
Balto - North Slavic 41.2%
Balkan 8.6%
Red Sea Arab 2.6%
Finnish 2.4%
Urals 1.3%
Dravidian 1.2%
Other 0.7%

My Population Admixture:

http://i.imgur.com/RbNXQj9.png
Belarus 48.2%
Denmark 35.8%
Slovenia 9.8%
Sweden 5.5%
Lithuania 0.6%
Other 0.1%

==========

My parents have DNA Tribes results from this year.

[War Chef]

I'm not a German. He was calling me a German trying to offend me.


Wasn't @ you, just in general.

[War Chef]

you ancestrydna raw data changed?

I raw data'd a girl last night

[Slavic Italian]

I'm not a German. He was calling me a German trying to offend me.



Here you go. My upload is from last year (FTDNA raw data transfer):

My Admixture Analysis:

http://i.imgur.com/tRXj0Ku.png
Northwest European 42%
Balto - North Slavic 41.2%
Balkan 8.6%
Red Sea Arab 2.6%
Finnish 2.4%
Urals 1.3%
Dravidian 1.2%
Other 0.7%

My Population Admixture:

http://i.imgur.com/RbNXQj9.png
Belarus 48.2%
Denmark 35.8%
Slovenia 9.8%
Sweden 5.5%
Lithuania 0.6%
Other 0.1%

==========

My parents have DNA Tribes results from this year.

You implied that you were German. I did not call you anything.

[Slavic Italian]

you ancestrydna raw data changed?

No. I should have held onto my money.

[Peterski]

You implied that you were German.

No. I wrote "based on my DNA Tribes I'm more Germanic than you based on your DNA Tribes".

Since you score Northwest European 27.1% and I score Northwest European 42%.

Although this also includes Celtic, not only Germanic. What is your Population Admixture?

In Population Admixture I get zero German - only Danish and Swedish (in 1st Iteration).

[Slavic Italian]

I'm not a German. He was calling me a German trying to offend me.



Here you go. My upload is from last year (FTDNA raw data transfer):

My Admixture Analysis:

http://i.imgur.com/tRXj0Ku.png
Northwest European 42%
Balto - North Slavic 41.2%
Balkan 8.6%
Red Sea Arab 2.6%
Finnish 2.4%
Urals 1.3%
Dravidian 1.2%
Other 0.7%

My Population Admixture:

http://i.imgur.com/RbNXQj9.png
Belarus 48.2%
Denmark 35.8%
Slovenia 9.8%
Sweden 5.5%
Lithuania 0.6%
Other 0.1%

==========

My parents have DNA Tribes results from this year.

You need to provide your top 5 countries. They provide variations of the calculation you provided. That is guess work at best. Here are mine.

1 Slovakia Europe
2 Russia Voronezh Europe
3 Czech Europe
4 Germany Europe
5 Slovenia Europe

[Peterski]

You need to provide your top 5 countries. They provide variations of the calculation you provided. That is guess work at best. Here are mine.

1 Slovakia Europe
2 Russia Voronezh Europe
3 Czech Europe
4 Germany Europe
5 Slovenia Europe

Here are mine:

1. Czech Europe
2. Slovenia Europe
3. Slovakia Europe
4. Germany Europe
5. Netherlands Europe

http://i.imgur.com/dTCDVD1.png

[Slavic Italian]

Yet, Lithuania is not even one of my top ten countries.


Lithuania 37.2%
Belgium 20.5%
Sardinia 19.4%
Slovenia 14.9%
Portugal 6.7%
BasqueSpain 0.7%
Saharawi 0.5%
Other 0.1%

[Slavic Italian]

Here are mine:

1. Czech Europe
2. Slovenia Europe
3. Slovakia Europe
4. Germany Europe
5. Netherlands Europe

http://i.imgur.com/dTCDVD1.png

My top five are all dark red.

[Peterski]

Yet, Lithuania is not even one of my top ten countries.

Lithuania 37.2%
Belgium 20.5%
Sardinia 19.4%
Slovenia 14.9%
Portugal 6.7%
BasqueSpain 0.7%
Saharawi 0.5%
Other 0.1%

Because Lithuanians are very different from Southern and North-Western Europeans.

So when you mix a Lithuanian with something so different, overall similarity to Lithuanians will not be in your Top 10.

BTW Lithuanians are very similar to Suwałki Poles, which you scored in another test.

[Slavic Italian]

Because Lithuanians are very different from Southern and North-Western Europeans.

So when you mix a Lithuanian with something so different, overall similarity to Lithuanians will not be in your Top 10.

BTW Lithuanians are very similar to Suwałki Poles, which you scored in another test.

They are Prussians. Russians have a lot of Baltic as well.

[Peterski]

They are Prussians. Russians have a lot of Baltic as well.

East Prussians can range from Lithuanian-like to German-like and everything in-between.

[Creoda]

IMO the dominant ethnicities by field:

Science and Technology: British
Visual Art: Italians
Music: Germans
Mathematics: Ashkenazi's or French
Literature: British or French, French historically, British in recent centuries
Philosophy: Greeks for Ancient, Germans for modern

Germans, British, and French have all been master races in the last 500 years and there's no need for dick measuring.

[Slavic Italian]

In the plot I am closest to Czech, Pole, and Russians. You?

[Peterski]

In the plot I am closest to Czech, Pole, and Russians. You?

To Czech (because their Polish references suck, I mean they use mostly Eastern Poles as references):

http://i.imgur.com/K0MIBOb.png

[Profileid]

o look
Peterski posting in a thread about Germans

[Slavic Italian]

To Czech (because their Polish references suck, I mean they use mostly Eastern Poles as references):

http://i.imgur.com/K0MIBOb.png

I have Belarus, Latvia, Poland, and Ireland as well in the plot. Do you think eastern Poles have too much Russian?

[Peterski]

Do you think eastern Poles have too much Russian?

Depends from which region. Suwałki Poles are extremely similar to Lithuanians, rather than to Russians.

I doubt it is due to Lithuanian ancestry, I think they mostly have Baltic Prussian (Yotvingian) ancestry.

South-Eastern Poles are similar to Ukrainians. Poles from regions bordering on Belarus, to Belarusians.

Generally - and even Sherlock Holmes would never guess it - Poles from each borderland region are similar to their neighbours.

[Slavic Italian]

Depends from which region. Suwałki Poles are extremely similar to Lithuanians, rather than to Russians.

I doubt it is due to Lithuanian ancestry, I think they mostly have Baltic Prussian (Yotvingian) ancestry.

South-Eastern Poles are similar to Ukrainians. Poles from regions bordering on Belarus, to Belarusians.

Generally - and even Sherlock Holmes would never guess it - Poles from each borderland region are similar to their neighbours.

Here lately I am getting matches from St Pete and Moscow.

[Peterski]

MDS Plot for my father is interesting, because there are no Czechs this time, and no population is close to him:

https://i.imgur.com/7836m03.png

But in "Total Ancestral Fit: European Populations" he still gets Czech 1st. My mother also gets Czech 1st there.

[Slavic Italian]

My family is full of soldiers. I served in combat as well and in the 101st Airborne which is a legendary American division.


Yotvingians also had a strong warrior culture and were generally well known as great warriors and hunters, and were feared by neighbouring Baltic tribes for their skill in warfare. These people served Kiev so makes sense.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/yotvingians-mighty-warriors-baltic-sea-005772

[Iloko]

is it probably more because of culture, or more genetics?

[Slavic Italian]

Depends from which region. Suwałki Poles are extremely similar to Lithuanians, rather than to Russians.

I doubt it is due to Lithuanian ancestry, I think they mostly have Baltic Prussian (Yotvingian) ancestry.

South-Eastern Poles are similar to Ukrainians. Poles from regions bordering on Belarus, to Belarusians.

Generally - and even Sherlock Holmes would never guess it - Poles from each borderland region are similar to their neighbours.

They also had strong ties to the Galindians and look where they were generally located.......Moscow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galindians

[Crn Volk]

Fast forward to today

http://www.arabnews.com/sites/default/files/styles/n_670_395/public/2018/01/11/1071856-936230114.jpg?itok=v5CkbhMz

[Peterski]

source: https://wmjas.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/german-dominance-at-the-very-highest-levels-of-accomplishment/

Rod Carvalho commented:

A top 72 list that includes Einstein but not von Neumann, Edison but not Shannon, Kant but not Schopenhauer, Haydn but not Liszt, etc etc etc simply does not deserve to be taken seriously. Why not include a list of Hungarian geniuses, and then normalize to get per capita figures? Because Hungary would then be at the top, I assume. ---> in other words, the list is very subjective.

Indeed, if we go per capita, then British accomplishments are more impressive (they were always less numerous than Germans). The French were also less numerous than Germans throughout most of history, they were just more politically centralized than the latter.

Until Russian demographic boom in the 1800s, Germans were the single most numerous ethnic group in Europe.

=====

BTW, Paul Ehrlich was 100% Jewish, Herschel was partially Jewish, and Copernicus was 50% Slavic Polish.

Another thing - most of these very great Germans are musicians, composers, philosophers, writers, artists, etc.

In other words, these are not accomplishments in "hard sciences". Granted, several hard scientists are there too.

=====

BTW, why is Tesla not on that list?

[Peterski]

The "greatest" writers are from the Anglosphere, because of domination of English as the world's lingua franca.

And someone also pointed this out in the comments, writing:

"Sadly; This Analysis seems to only consider raw numbers of ‘Media Whores’
And perhaps neglects to consider all other relevant factors."

How do you measure greatness of a writer objectively, anyway?

A relatively objective ranking is only possible for hard sciences.

====

In case of German science you get more Jewish DNA involved, than in case of German music:

Chris commented:

Long story short; German Jews, and the fact that they were disproportionately represented in German science. A fact Charles Murray also recognized. Saying the ratio of significant figures between Jewish German and Gentiles was 22:1. German Jews were heavily influential in German science. To the point a lot of German Jew invenions are often claimed by gentiles such as the first petrol car which was first invented by Siegfried Marcus. However Nazis removed his name from Encyclopedias because he was Jewish, and then ordered for his name to be replaced with Benz and Daimler who came after him. Germans had more Jews in their demographic of scientists than any other country in Europe.