Can armenoid be considerated an European phenotype?

[Joso]

Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians.

[Xacal]

No.

[Joso]

No.

Then Scicilians are not European too

[Xacal]

Then Scicilians are not European too

Lappid and Turanid too

[Livin]

No!

Armenoids in EU exist only in wog areas like Greece and Italy.In very rare situations also in balkans.

[Joso]

Lappid and Turanid too

These can be, they are in Europe since ancient times and they are not mongoloid in fact but proto-mongoloid and proto-mongoloid+cro-magnid

[Anglojew]

Yes but barely as it's only because some areas displaying this phenotype on the periphery of Europe (Caucasus, Turkey) exist on the fringes of Europe. Technically it's similar to Dinarid. That said it is Europid. We need to stop seeing the white race as limited to the borders of Europe.

[Joso]

Yes but barely as it's only because some areas displaying this phenotype on the periphery of Europe (Caucasus, Turkey) exist on the fringes of Europe. Technically it's similar to Dinarid. That said it is Europid. We need to stop seeing the white race as limited to the borders of Europe.

I agree, Euros, North Africans, Middle Easterners, Ethiopians, Indians, Veddoids, australoids, proto mongoloids and native americans are all whiteys

[Joso]

No!

Armenoids in EU exist only in wog areas like Greece and Italy.In very rare situations also in balkans.

askenazi jews are everywhere, bro, and they are very close to europeans

[arkas]

Well some phenotypes like Dinarid, Litorid, Baskid, Carpathid and others which are found in Europe, they're supposed to be the result of mixing with Armenids. So I would say Armenid influence is European for sure.

The Mediterranid phenotype also crosses over into North Africa, the Levant and Turkey, so I think it's fine to point out phenotypes that overlap in regions, many do.

[Danny_K]

I think yes Armenians have overlap with some European nations. Bulgarians can easily pass in Armenia.
Bulgarians.
http://media.wizards.com/2017/events/2017wmc/2017wmc_Bulgaria.jpg

[Rædwald]

No.

[Livin]

askenazi jews are everywhere, bro, and they are very close to europeans

This specific phenotype is not european!White caucasoid yes,but not european.

[Sikeliot]

Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians.

It exists in Sicily too actually.

[Livin]

It exists in Sicily too actually.

Not only!I would say in whole south italy pretty much and in central-northern parts.

[Mr. Anybody]

No.İts an east asian phenotype.occurred in north of Japan.

[Cristiano viejo]

Well some phenotypes like Dinarid, Litorid, Baskid, Carpathid and others which are found in Europe, they're supposed to be the result of mixing with Armenids. So I would say Armenid influence is European for sure.


Baskid have nothing to do with Armenoids. Baskid phenotype is common in Vascongadas/Basque people, who have nothing to do with MENAs.

[Joso]

Baskid have nothing to do with Armenoids. Baskid phenotype is common in Vascongadas/Basque people, who have nothing to do with MENAs.

True

[Nazarene]

Not exactly

[arkas]

Baskid have nothing to do with Armenoids. Baskid phenotype is common in Vascongadas/Basque people, who have nothing to do with MENAs.

Well, Baskid is supposed to be influenced by Dinarid among other phenotypes, which Dinarid is related to Armenid but I am no expert.

[Joso]

Well, Baskid is supposed to be influenced by Dinarid among other phenotypes, which Dinarid is related to Armenid but I am no expert.

Dinarid is related with iranid i think

[Joso]

It exists in Sicily too actually.

East med too, i think east med can also be an Euro phenotype

[Sacrificed Ram]

Native in pure form only in some peripheral areas, but is the main component in Litorid and despite it has low number of individuals, probably is the most dispersed phenotype in Europe.
http://humanphenotypes.net/litorid.gif

[cyberlorian]

Dinarid is related with iranid i think

From the second degree, they are related. East Mediterranid is Iranid + Mediterranid. Dinarid is the brachycephalised version of East Mediterranid. So, yes. Maybe they are not related from the first degree but they are related from the second degree.

[Joso]

From the second degree, they are related. East Mediterranid is Iranid + Mediterranid. Dinarid is the brachycephalised version of East Mediterranid. So, yes. Maybe they are not related from the first degree but they are related from the second degree.

Good to see you here again, Berkan! :D I could not wait more for your phenotype threads!

[cyberlorian]

Good to see you here again, Berkan! :D I could not wait more for your phenotype threads!

I neede to cope with my computer addiction. Then I decided to leave TA for a while. However, it has gone worse because this time, I started to play online PC games, which are certainly more addictive than TA.

[cyberlorian]

Native in pure form only in some peripheral areas, but is the main component in Litorid and despite it has low number of individuals, probably is the most dispersed phenotype in Europe.
http://humanphenotypes.net/litorid.gif


.

In fact, if it is true, very interesting that Litorid (Med + Armenoid) is very widespread in coastal Europe.

[Joso]

In fact, if it is true, very interesting that Litorid (Med + Armenoid) is very widespread in coastal Europe.

many Scicilians are med+armenoid i think

[cyberlorian]

many Scicilians are med+armenoid i think

Might be.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Interesting is neolithic fossils of Levant are all full dolicho atlanto-mediterraneans (and mainly E3b yDNA), armenoid skulls (together with J yDNA) appear only during chalcolithic to bronze age with probable migrants from iranian highlands, when occured a transition of agricultural people to pastoralists (due some drought) and possible ethnogenesis of semitics.

[cyberlorian]

Interesting is neolithic fossils of Levant are all full dolicho atlanto-mediterraneans (and mainly E3b yDNA), armenoid skulls (together with J yDNA) appear only during chalcolithic to bronze age with probable migrants from iranian highlands, when occured a transition of agricultural people to pastoralists (due some drought) and possible ethnogenesis of semitics.

Yes. The origin of J haplogroup is Caucasus and it is not rare among native Kavkaz people.

[Livin]

Interesting is neolithic fossils of Levant are all full dolicho atlanto-mediterraneans (and mainly E3b yDNA), armenoid skulls (together with J yDNA) appear only during chalcolithic to bronze age with probable migrants from iranian highlands, when occured a transition of agricultural people to pastoralists (due some drought) and possible ethnogenesis of semitics.

J2 is definetly the haplo of armenoids or Taurids.

[cyberlorian]

J2 is definetly the haplo of armenoids or Taurids.

Caucasian Hunter Gatherer RACE

[Livin]

Caucasian Hunter Gatherer RACE

Yep!I agree 100%

[Livin]

And the Romanian clown faggot started to thump down...!!!

Duel with it monkey your first grandpa was an ugly armenoid shit from Kavkaz ;)

[Papastratosels26]

No

[IncelSlayer]

J2 is definetly the haplo of armenoids or Taurids.

No its not,J2 origin is either in Iran or Greece,looking at basal clades. Caucasus has no diversity in J2, its an isolated clade which came a few thousand years ago from Fertile Crescent.
The armenian ydna is R1b-l23 and the native caucasus ydna's are G2a, R1b-l23, J1 and L.


Caucasian Hunter Gatherer RACE

CHG is Mesolithic Iran,dumb subhuman turk.

[Joso]

No

Why

[Sacrificed Ram]

Current lebanese christians are a mix of Mesolithic Natufian component and Iranian Chalcolithic:

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

[Livin]

No its not,J2 origin is either in Iran or Greece,looking at basal clades. Caucasus has no diversity in J2, its an isolated clade which came a few thousand years ago from Fertile Crescent.
The armenian ydna is R1b-l23 and the native caucasus ydna's are G2a, R1b-l23, J1 and L.



CHG is Mesolithic Iran,dumb subhuman turk.

Stfu you romans rape!!!!


Look your armenoid daddy here


80321

[Livin]

Current lebanese christians are a mix of Mesolithic Natufian component and Iranian Chalcolithic:

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-canaanite-lebanese-genetics-20170727-story.html

Indeed!!!

[Wrong]

Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians.
According to some of the so-called anthro-forum-experts, Armenians and Jews look different and therefore, AJ's are not properly Armenoid, but more of East Med.

-Aherne

[Sacrificed Ram]

If origin of J yDNA was Caucasus, levantines would show strong CHG component and they don't show. Also we see too basal clades like IJ yDNA in Iran.

[Joso]

According to some anthro-forum-experts, Armenians and Jews look different and, therefore AJ's are not properly Armenoid, but more of East Med.

-Aherne

Still, the same question can be made for East Meds: Can east medid be considerated an European phenotype?Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians

[Wrong]

If origin of J yDNA was Caucasus, levantines would show strong CHG component and they don't show. Also we see too basal clades like IJ yDNA in Iran.
Fertile Crescent was strongly E & others minor groups before the J-invasion southwards from the Caucasus.

[cyberlorian]

According to some of the so-called anthro-forum-experts, Armenians and Jews look different and therefore, AJ's are not properly Armenoid, but more of East Med.

-Aherne

What is AJ?

[Joso]

What is AJ?

Ahskenazi Jew

[Livin]

If origin of J yDNA was Caucasus, levantines would show strong CHG component and they don't show. Also we see too basal clades like IJ yDNA in Iran.

Maybe these Gulf Arabs took those hooked noses because of J1 lineages xd :D

[Smeagol]

Still, the same question can be made for East Meds: Can east medid be considerated an European phenotype?Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians

East Med is a made up internet type.

[IncelSlayer]

Fertile Crescent was strongly E & others minor groups before the J-invasion southwards from the Caucasus.

J2b2 and R1b-l23 in albanians surely come from caucasus, since R1b-l23* was found in S.Caucasus-Armenia and J2b* in N.Caucasus.Not the case with J2a, since the oldest sample in present, is from Iran, and the most basal clades are found in Iran&Greece.By the way, I would refrain from talking about J, since all J achievements are done by J2a* men, not J1, not J2b1,not J2b2.


East Med is a made up internet type.

All deviations like N.Pontid, Subnordid, West Baltid etc are made up.

[Livin]

Fertile Crescent was strongly E & others minor groups before the J-invasion southwards from the Caucasus.

Look this idiot romanian clown with the kura-araxes ancestry how trumping down us hahahahahaha i am crying late night bro!!!!

[cyberlorian]

Still, the same question can be made for East Meds: Can east medid be considerated an European phenotype?Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians

But, Ashkenazi Jews are not fully European. Are they? :confused:

[Joso]

East Med is a made up internet type.

Then was really is the phenotype called as East med? Just a variation of gracile-med?

[Livin]

But, Ashkenazi Jews are not fully European. Are they? :confused:

They were fucking italian women so they are half EUROS!!!

[Wrong]

J2b2 and R1b-l23 in albanians surely come from caucasus, since R1b-l23* was found in S.Caucasus-Armenia and J2b* in N.Caucasus.Not the case with J2a, since the oldest sample in present, is from Iran, and the most basal clades are found in Iran&Greece.By the way, I would refrain from talking about J, since all J achievements are done by J2a* men, not J1, not J2b1,not J2b2.
Kura-Araxes was the hotspot of J2a, before R1b-L23 IE's invaded, causing J2a to flee to the coasts.

[Joso]

But, Ashkenazi Jews are not fully European. Are they? :confused:

I don't know, myabe scicilians are not

[Smeagol]

Then was really is the phenotype called as East med? Just a variation of gracile-med?

I've seen people use East Med for a lot of things, like Med + Armenoid for example.

[cyberlorian]

Then was really is the phenotype called as East med? Just a variation of gracile-med?

Dolichocephal Dinarid.

[Livin]

Kura-Araxes was the hotspot of J2a, before R1b-L23 IE's invaded, causing J2a to flee to the coasts.

He is ashamed for his caucasian/mesopotamian ancestry hahahahahahahhah!!!!!

Suicide for this wannabe Roman clown hahahahaha!!!

[cyberlorian]

I've seen people use East Med for a lot of things, like Med + Armenoid for example.

Med + Armenoid is Anatolid.

[Joso]

Dolichocephal Dinarid.

But is not iranid the dolichocephal dinarid?

[Sacrificed Ram]

Then was really is the phenotype called as East med? Just a variation of gracile-med?

They are just the original meds, the rest is derivative of them, maybe even nordids.
https://image.ibb.co/crbkS8/e0WApfM.jpg

[Joso]

They are just the original meds, the rest is derivative of them, maybe even nordids.
https://image.ibb.co/crbkS8/e0WApfM.jpg

So they are like proto-meds?

[cyberlorian]

But is not iranid the dolichocephal dinarid?

Iranid is more like dolichocephal Armenoid.

[Joso]

Iranid is more like dolichocephal Armenoid.

Ok

[Smeagol]

Med + Armenoid is Anatolid.

Anatolid is another made up internet type. People should read Coon before posting in the taxonomy and anthropology sections.

[Joso]

Iranid is more like dolichocephal Armenoid.

But some times t0here is not much difference between dinarids and iranids, except that one is brachycephalic and the other doliy

[cyberlorian]

So they are like proto-meds?


They are just the original meds, the rest is derivative of them, maybe even nordids.


The original Mediterranid is Mediterranid proper (Gracile Mediterranid) as far as I know.

[Kivan]

They are just the original meds, the rest is derivative of them, maybe even nordids.
https://image.ibb.co/crbkS8/e0WApfM.jpg

There is no such phenotype. That picture was just created by a random person in the internet.

[Smeagol]

So they are like proto-meds?

Human Phenotypes website = Nonsense.

[Livin]

Anatolid is another made up internet type. People should read Coon before posting in the taxonomy and anthropology sections.

Anatolid is pretty much Armenoid but with longer faces thats all!The skull shape is still brachy and the nose hyperleptorihne....and the eyes like owl.

[cyberlorian]

But some times t0here is not much difference between dinarids and iranids, except that one is brachycephalic and the other doliy

There are also differences in terms of pigmentation and height.

[Joso]

The original Mediterranid is Mediterranid proper (Gracile Mediterranid) as far as I know.

What about paleo-atlantids? Or berids? Are not these the original meds?

[cyberlorian]

Anatolid is pretty much Armenoid but with longer faces thats all!The skull shape is still brachy and the nose hyperleptorihne....and the eyes like owl.

No.
Anatolid is Mediterranid with some Armenoid influence.

[Smeagol]

What about paleo-atlantids? Or berids? Are not these the original meds?

More made up types. ;)

[cyberlorian]

What about paleo-atlantids? Or berids? Are not these the original meds?

I don't know but I guess they are from Western Hunter Gatherers.

[Joso]

Anatolid is another made up internet type. People should read Coon before posting in the taxonomy and anthropology sections.

It used for a mix of phenos, so it is not necessarly wrong

[Livin]

No.
Anatolid is Mediterranid with some Armenoid influence.


It has longer face witch is as you said med admixture thats all!They do not have meso or doli skull shapes and the facial features are closer to armenoid.It gives a pseudo-Dinarid face IMO.


This man is anatolid IMO.

80322

[Joso]

More made up types. ;)

How do you know?

[Kivan]

Anatolid is pretty much Armenoid but with longer faces thats all!The skull shape is still brachy and the nose hyperleptorihne....and the eyes like owl.

No, it's not. Anadolid has sharper features and lacks of that flat occiput that the textbook Armenoid have.

http://media.sinematurk.com/person/d/a9/27b9b0aa93e4/3101_2.jpg
https://cdn.ucankus.com/img/iutyhdfgfyuhkjgftyui.jpg

[Livin]

No, it's not. Anadolid has sharper features and lacks of that flat occiput that the textbook Armenoid have.

http://media.sinematurk.com/person/d/a9/27b9b0aa93e4/3101_2.jpg
https://cdn.ucankus.com/img/iutyhdfgfyuhkjgftyui.jpg

Anatolid has armenoid eyes the most of the times and is darker than this one!


This man looks Dinaromed not anatolid at all.

[Joso]

No, it's not. Anadolid has sharper features and lacks of that flat occiput that the textbook Armenoid have.

http://media.sinematurk.com/person/d/a9/27b9b0aa93e4/3101_2.jpg
https://cdn.ucankus.com/img/iutyhdfgfyuhkjgftyui.jpg

Is anadolid a pure type or is it a mix of armenoid+anything else?

[cyberlorian]

Is anadolid a pure type or is it a mix of armenoid+anything else?

Mediterranid.

[Smeagol]

How do you know?

They aren't mentioned by actual anthropologists, except I think for Lundman who made up different types based on blood group frequencies rather than actual measurable physical characteristics.

[Kivan]

Anatolid has armenoid eyes the most of the times and is darker than this one!
This man looks Dinaromed not anatolid at all.

???

With that nose? And what would be "Armenoid eyes"?



Is anadolid a pure type or is it a mix of armenoid+anything else?
Med altered by Armenoid.

[Joso]

They aren't mentioned by actual anthropologists, except I think for Lundman who made up different types based on blood group frequencies rather than actual measurable physical characteristics.

makes sense so

[cyberlorian]

How do you know?

If you wish me to classify the morphs on East Mediterranid Human Phenotypes card, let me classify them?

[Livin]

???

With that nose? And what would be "Armenoid eyes"?



Med altered by Armenoid.

Do you think this man is anatolid?

80323

[Joso]

If you wish me to classify the morphs on East Mediterranid Human Phenotypes card, let me classify them?

ok

[Sacrificed Ram]

There is no such phenotype. That picture was just created by a random person in the internet.

I know it, but this description closes much with neolithic skeletal remains. We know the neolithical expasion was from east to west, then a very similar type was involved. Ratatosk prefer now use the concept "Euroafricanid", despite I think such type is contaminated by upper paleolithic influences of Europe and North Africa.
https://i.imgur.com/rCDN7fh.jpg

[cyberlorian]

ok

Male: Pontid + minor Armenoid

Female: Robust Iranid + Alpinid

[Joso]

Male: Pontid + minor Armenoid

Female: Robust Iranid + Alpinid

thanks

[Kivan]

Do you think this man is anatolid?

80323

I don't see Med or Pontid influence in him. Looks like that Armenoids found in the Southern Caucasus and Iran, but with some Alpine influence, i think.

[cyberlorian]

thanks

You are welcome. :)

[Livin]

I don't see Med or Pontid influence in him. Looks like that Armenoids found in the Southern Caucasus and Iran, but with some Alpine influence, i think.

He is not textboook armeoid!His face is very long.Anyway fuck it!We disagree;)

[Sacrificed Ram]

The only original european phenotype is neanderthal, the rest are all invaders, from different ages, armenoid just arrived most recently, bronze age and historic time.

[IncelSlayer]

Kura-Araxes was the hotspot of J2a, before R1b-L23 IE's invaded, causing J2a to flee to the coasts.

J2a has nothing to do with Kura-Araxes Culture,a culture preceded by Shualveri-Shomu.The samples found there belonged to G2b and J1, as expected from a trans-caucasus culture.What to expect from a albo immigrant, who claimed Alexander the Great,Justinian,macedonians and dorians were albanians.Its what happens when neither you, nor your country, has any achievements.Mind your own worthless J2b2 lineage, which has no culture of its own, they were just acolytes picked up R1b-l23* indo-europeans from Steppe, who in turn were acolytes of J2a PIE from Iran.


The only original european phenotype is neanderthal, the rest are all invaders, from different ages, armenoid just arrived most recently, bronze age and historic time.

Neanderthals aren't even h.s.sapiens...

[Wrong]

J2a has nothing to do with Kura-Araxes Culture,a culture preceded by Shualveri-Shomu.The samples found there belonged to G2b and J1, as expected from a trans-caucasus culture.What to expect from a albo immigrant, who claimed Alexander the Great,Justinian,macedonians and dorians were albanians.Its what happens when neither you, nor your country, has any achievements.Mind your own worthless J2b2 lineage, which has no culture of its own, they were just acolytes picked up R1b-l23* indo-europeans from Steppe, who in turn were acolytes of J2a PIE from Iran.
J2a is the second-most common haplogroup among Armenians and was the main haplogroup of the Kura-Araxes, it was nearly 100% before the R1b-L23 IE Conan the Barbarian Cimmerian invasions conquered Armenia and the rest of the area.

J2b2 originated in western Iran and spread both east and west, like the other J's.

In parts of North India most of the J2 is J2b2:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8388/8675629245_0f99cf87c3_o.jpg

[IncelSlayer]

J

Didn't read your reply, you have no scientific proof.Keep coping.

[Livin]

J2a has nothing to do with Kura-Araxes Culture,a culture preceded by Shualveri-Shomu.The samples found there belonged to G2b and J1, as expected from a trans-caucasus culture.What to expect from a albo immigrant, who claimed Alexander the Great,Justinian,macedonians and dorians were albanians.Its what happens when neither you, nor your country, has any achievements.Mind your own worthless J2b2 lineage, which has no culture of its own, they were just acolytes picked up R1b-l23* indo-europeans from Steppe, who in turn were acolytes of J2a PIE from Iran.



Neanderthals aren't even h.s.sapiens...

The whole forum is laughing with you wannabe Roman clown.

Its time to accept your caucasian/Turkish herittage....!!!

LIVE WITH IT you wannabe caesar.


J2 is the haplo of kura-araxes and it moved to coasts and western parts(Greee/Italy) after R1b-L23 populations come and pushed them away....

[Wrong]

Didn't read your reply, you have no scientific proof.Keep coping.
R1b-L23 was the overlord of the whole area of South Eastern Europe & MENA. It's time to accept this.

It brought the IE languages to the Balkans.

[Sacrificed Ram]

J2a has nothing to do with Kura-Araxes Culture,a culture preceded by Shualveri-Shomu.The samples found there belonged to G2b and J1, as expected from a trans-caucasus culture.What to expect from a albo immigrant, who claimed Alexander the Great,Justinian,macedonians and dorians were albanians.Its what happens when neither you, nor your country, has any achievements.Mind your own worthless J2b2 lineage, which has no culture of its own, they were just acolytes picked up R1b-l23* indo-europeans from Steppe, who in turn were acolytes of J2a PIE from Iran.

Neanderthals aren't even h.s.sapiens...

The most old yDNA of Europe is I (together with some C and F), it is a cousin of J, then the firts cromagnons also have probable origin in iranian highlands, but very old.

[Wrong]

The most old yDNA of Europe is I (together with some C and F), it is a cousin of J, then the firts cromagnons also have probable origin in iranian highlands, but very old.
That's what I'm saying, J originated somewhere in western Iran when it split from IJ. That retard aint getting it.

Common ancestor J2b and J2a is something beyond 16k years.

[Livin]

Didn't read your reply, you have no scientific proof.Keep coping.

80327


Your J2(Armenoid) DADDY SALUTES YOU HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA :cool:

[IncelSlayer]

Cope

R1b-l23 did bring IE to most of SE Europeans, who back then were I&G&E, but not to J2a, so its pointless to try to attack me with this.You keep ass licking R1b-l23 just like your J2b2 acolyte ancestors did.No wonder, its been ingrained genetically into you.I know J2b2 is the most worthless lineage, only existent in n.albanians,but atleast try to get a hold of yourself.

[Sacrificed Ram]

People here is a comedy, they don't believe in "Eastmed", but believe in "Robust Iranid". Could someone guarantee "Robust Iranid" isn't just Med-Alpine?

http://br.web.img3.acsta.net/medias/nmedia/18/89/92/90/20185809.jpg

[cyberlorian]

People here is a comedy, they don't believe in "Eastmed", but believe in "Robust Iranid". Could someone guarantee "Robust Iranid" isn't just Med-Alpine?


Robust Iranid is not Med Alpine. It is Iranid + Cromagnid.

[IncelSlayer]

People here is a comedy, they don't believe in "Eastmed", but believe in "Robust Iranid". Could someone guarantee "Robust Iranid" isn't just Med-Alpine?

http://br.web.img3.acsta.net/medias/nmedia/18/89/92/90/20185809.jpg

There's no such thing as "robust" in classifications.People here are clueless, they call CM/robust every person who is not a mouth-breather.

[Livin]

People here is a comedy, they don't believe in "Eastmed", but believe in "Robust Iranid". Could someone guarantee "Robust Iranid" isn't just Med-Alpine?

http://br.web.img3.acsta.net/medias/nmedia/18/89/92/90/20185809.jpg

I think they mean this

80328

[Joso]

bump

[Fibonacci]

The most old yDNA of Europe is I (together with some C and F), it is a cousin of J, then the firts cromagnons also have probable origin in iranian highlands, but very old.

The oldest Neanderthal remain was indeed found in a cave in northern Iran. I remember seeing a lot of them at school. Neanderthals definitely had a massive history in Iran

[FinalFlash]

Arguable, but I guess it can since it's also prevalent in southern Europe as well its cousin, the dinarid and littorid types.

[Pandit]

Some are Nordic so very similar to Europeans, rest are Mixed or full blown West Asian.

[Zroota]

Armenoid is supposed to be an "Asiatic Dinarid" type. So in other words, it's an Asiatic variant of Dinarid. Just like Alpine in Asia is "Asiatic Alpine".

But this doesn't mean anything as I've seen people in Europe who look more "Asiatic" than those in the actual continent of Asia. Meaning some Sicilians or islander Greeks would safely be Armenoid or Asiatic Alpine, whereas some Armenians and Turks can be full Dinarids or "European" Alpine.

[cyberlorian]

Some are Nordic so very similar to Europeans, rest are Mixed or full blown West Asian.

What do you mean by some are Nordid?

[cyberlorian]

Armenoid is supposed to be an "Asiatic Dinarid" type. So in other words, it's an Asiatic variant of Dinarid. Just like Alpine in Asia is "Asiatic Alpine".

But this doesn't mean anything as I've seen people in Europe who look more "Asiatic" than those in the actual continent of Asia. Meaning some Sicilians or islander Greeks would safely be Armenoid or Asiatic Alpine, whereas some Armenians and Turks can be full Dinarids or "European" Alpine.

The relationship from Dinarid to Armenoid is like the relationship from Cappadocian Mediterranid to Iranid.

[gıulıoımpa]

honestly i don't know if sicilians classified as armenoids are real armenoids

i think they are more litorid or alpinized litorids

[rusich]

Scicilians the descendants of the Semites

[Pandit]

What do you mean by some are Nordid?

People who have nordid phenotype

[cyberlorian]

People who have nordid phenotype

“Some Armenoids have Nordid phenotype.” makes no sense.

[MinervaItalica]

Op logic is amazing. Certain people can only be found on these forums... :picard1:

[Congolese Rice]

I agree, Euros, North Africans, Middle Easterners, Ethiopians, Indians, Veddoids, australoids, proto mongoloids and native americans are all whiteys

lol, no.


the white race: every race in europe. thats where it ends.

North africans, Middle easterners, Ethiopians etc are part of the Caucasoid race, but they arent related to the white race.

[Joso]

lol, no.


the white race: every race in europe. thats where it ends.

North africans, Middle easterners, Ethiopians etc are part of the Caucasoid race, but they arent related to the white race.

They are

[Fibonacci]

They are

We are only related in terms of ancient common ancestors. We are cousins of each other. West Asians are cousins of Europeans because of neolithic/Indo European migration to both sides.

[Jana]

No!

[Joso]

No!

Why

[Jana]

Why

It's native to North-West Asia, not Europe.

[Silver Lining]

Old Dinarics start to look like Armenoids when they shrink and grow fatter and ears grows. So it is European. :thumb001:

[Joso]

Old Dinarics start to look like Armenoids when they shrink and grow fatter and ears grows. So it is European. :thumb001:

Yeah, when old, dinarids also can have more thick noses, so i think yes, if dianrids looks more like armenoids when old, we can conclude that dinarids are like neothenic armenoids. Also, they are not so diastant genetically also, i think armenoids are Europeans too

[Jana]

Dinarids and Armenoids are about as similar as Atlanto-Meds and Arabids.

[cyberlorian]

Dinarids and Armenoids are about as similar as Atlanto-Meds and Arabids.

Atlanto Meds are giant Arabids.

Dinarids are giant Armenoids.

:D :P

[Silver Lining]

Dinarids and Armenoids are about as similar as Atlanto-Meds and Arabids.

Dinarics are just more progressive, give the Armenoids some hormones and they will turn into full-blown Dinarics.

Axolotl style:

https://questionableevolution.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/mexican-axolotl_780_600x450.jpg

==>

https://questionableevolution.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/salamandra_tigre.png

[Joso]

Dinarids and Armenoids are about as similar as Atlanto-Meds and Arabids.

ok, that is probably true but there are still a huge overlap because dinarids are ancient meds adaptated to the mountains and armenoids are middle easterners( other type of med) adaptated to the mountains too, so even if their genetics is very different, they are probably higly related, i think, but it is just speculation

[cyberlorian]

middle easterners( other type of med)

Iranid.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Dinarid and Armenid are a case of Parallel Evolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_evolution).

[Joso]

Dinarid and Armenid are a case of Parallel Evolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_evolution).

But they came from a similar basis

[Sacrificed Ram]

But they came from a similar basis

It is the mean of Parallel Evolution: A common origin and a similar result.

Convergent evolution means a diverse origin but with similar result.

[Joso]

It is the mean of Parallel Evolution: A common origin and a similar result.

Convergent evolution means a diverse origin but with similar result.

Ok

[Joso]

Dinarics are just more progressive, give the Armenoids some hormones and they will turn into full-blown Dinarics.

Axolotl style:

https://questionableevolution.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/mexican-axolotl_780_600x450.jpg

==>

https://questionableevolution.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/salamandra_tigre.png

First one is very cute, i want to kiss him :3

[Joso]

bump

[Dimitri159]

According to anthropological sources, Armenoid is a “White”/Caucasoid type and is often used interchangeably with Dinarid, which is a type common throughout Europe.
Furthermore, Armenoid can be found in some southern European countries such as Greece, Italy, Bulgaria, etc. but in small numbers.

I would say yes. It’s a European phenotype that developed outside of the European continent.

[kingmob]

It's not Euro, because it peaks in south Caucasus/NE Anatolia.

[Dimitri159]

It's not Euro, because it peaks in south Caucasus/NE Anatolia.

It is related to Dinarid of Europe. It doesn’t have to be within the European boundaries to be anthropologically European/Caucasoid.

[kingmob]

It is related to Dinarid of Europe. It doesn’t have to be within the European boundaries to be anthropologically European/Caucasoid.


It might be related, but that's probably due to shared ancestral components. Regardless of the matter, it peaks in a region of Northern W. Asia that is completely outside the scope of what is considered as the Occident, in this case Europe.

You could make an argument about it being part of the Orient, and I'd agree, but this division is a thing of the past.

Why does it matter anyways, who cares if they are considered euro or not, same goes for any other WANA/MENA phenotype, it's an OWD dilemma at best.

[Guti]

I think there is a big difference between European (Europoid/White) and Caucasian (Caucasoid/Caucaso-Iranid).

Armenoide is neither of these 2. Armenoide is more or less related to the ancient Anatolian farmers, be it ANF or EEF.

[Immanenz]

It is related to Dinarid of Europe. It doesn’t have to be within the European boundaries to be anthropologically European/Caucasoid.

Armenoid is the Taurid form of Orientalid and Irano-Afgan

[Grom]

Since Ashkenazi jews have it and they are very close to Scicilians.

You basically answered your own question by using ethnicities with significant non-European admixture as an example of this phenotype. No, it is not a European phenotype. Whenever you see Armenoid phenotypes in Europe, it is often in populations with heavy non-European gene flow, like the forementioned ITA_Rome_Imperial-rich Sicilians.

[Guti]

From a genetic point of view Armenoide is related to the ancient Anatolian farmers.

This is one of the main reasons why the Armenoide race exists in the Levant, Europe and in lesser degree Caucasus/Iranian_Pateau.
Armenoide phenotype is very ancient in Europe because EEF (Anatolian farmers ancestry) predate steppe invasions.

It is obvious that an Armenoide phenotype is a West Eurasian phenotype, but it has nothing to do with the Caucasus, CHG/Iran_N related people.

So that is why I am saying that an Armenoide phenotype is typical Anatolian phenotype, but neither Europoid (White) nor Caucasoid (Caucasian/Caucaso-Iranic).



The most 'Armenoide' people on this planet are most likely the Anatolian Turks (mixed with Turanics), Armenians and to a smaller degree Assyrians (due to their heavy mixing with the Armenians, but mixed with Arabids/Semtics/Levantines). Those people have native ANF ancestry in them the most.

[Guti]

Whenever you see Armenoid phenotypes in Europe, it is often in populations with heavy non-European gene flowActually, Armenoide phenotype is one of the oldest in Europe. It arrived with the Neolithic Anatolian farmers and predates steppe invasions that followed thousands of years later.

[Immanenz]

Actually, Armenoide phenotype is one of the oldest in Europe. It arrived with the Neolithic Anatolian farmers and predates steppe invasions that followed thousands of years later.

well, in reality nobody ever classifed ancient Neolithic Farmers in Europe as Armenoid, while Bell Beakers were ironically linked with them because of flattening of the occiput, nasal prominence etc.

[Guti]

well, in reality nobody ever classifed ancient Neolithic Farmers in Europe as Armenoid, while Bell Beakers were ironically linked with them because of flattening of the occiput, nasal prominence etc.How many pictures of the Anatolian famers do we have from that time? It is obvious that the ancient Neolithic Farmers in Europe were for a very huge part related to the Anatolian Plateau. And IMO the Armenoide phenotype is native to the Anatolian Plateau.


I am a simple man. To me:

Anatolian = Armenoide

[Dimitri159]

Armenoid is the Taurid form of Orientalid and Irano-Afgan

The latter are also White/Caucasoid types anthropologically speaking and are connected to Mediterranean types of Europe. In the world of racial anthropology, skin color did not seem to matter.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/coonschem.jpg

[Grom]

Actually, Armenoide phenotype is one of the oldest in Europe. It arrived with the Neolithic Anatolian farmers and predate steppe invasions that followed thousands of years later.

We don't know that because we can't extrapolate specific intra-racial phenotypes from ancient skulls, it's too speculative. Most EEF reconstructions to date do not resemble Armenoids in any way, nor do the most EEF-like modern populations such as Sardinians have this phenotype to any considerable extent. Not that it matters, since it's an exercise in futility.

[kingmob]

Armenid is a brachycephalic type, so its origins should be found in groups with genetic predispositions towards brachycephaly, that is why I believe it is associated with South Caucasus/NE Anatolia.

Its Central Anatolian counterpart is Anatolid/Cappadocian which is essentially a doli Med type with a hooked/convex nose that is one of the trademarks of Armenid, hinting at a process that involved the mixing of the Anatolian Meds with the former.

NE Anatolia was a treasured possession/conquest for both Greeks and Persians, for its silver mines and other treasures, ping-ponging between each other and as such resulting in Med/Armenid mixes in both populations (same for Romans/Byzantines and Turks later on).

[Guti]

We don't know that because we can't extrapolate specific intra-racial phenotypes from ancient skulls, it's too speculative. Most EEF reconstructions to date do not resemble Armenoids in any way, nor do the most EEF-like modern populations such as Sardinians have this phenotype to any considerable extent. Not that it matters, since it's an exercise in futility.Just a question, where do you think an Armenoide phenotype is originally from?


Keep in mind that the EEF-like ancestry peaks in the modern Sardinians, but in turn modern Sardians cluster very close to the ancient Anatolian farmers from Anatolia! EEF is almost the same as ANF, but has been said that there was some back migration of mixed WHG/EEF/ANF people into Anatolia a long time ago, during the Neolithics.

[Guti]

Sardinians plot in the same cluster as the ancient Anatolian Farmers.


https://i.postimg.cc/6qNttxZN/main-qimg-86364d5a17066de3ca2ebc7da01a8752.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Qt3sBq5X/wykres-PCA.png

[Dimitri159]

Anatolian Farmer reconstructions look Mediterranean more than Armenoid. Armenoid probably entered Anatolia at a later time.

[Guti]

Anatolian Farmer reconstructions look Mediterranean more than Armenoid. Armenoid probably entered Anatolia at a later time.I don't think that. I think Armenoide type very ancient and actually very native to Anatolia.

Anatolian phenotype and Armenoide phenotype are almost 2 unseparated entities.


The reason why Armenoide is very ancient is because it has been already in the Levant among proto-Semitic people for a very long time.

[Dimitri159]

I don't think that. I think Armenoide type very ancient and actually very native to Anatolia.

Anatolian phenotype and Armenoide phenotype are almost 2 unseparated entities.


The reason why Armenoide is very ancient is because it has been already in the Levant among proto-Semitic people for a very long time.

Yeah well the reconstructions provided today show otherwise. The amount of examples are limited, but if Armenoid was so common then at least one reconstruction would show an Armenoid influence.

[Guti]

Armenid is a brachycephalic type, so its origins should be found in groups with genetic predispositions towards brachycephaly, that is why I believe it is associated with South Caucasus/NE Anatolia.

Its Central Anatolian counterpart is Anatolid/Cappadocian which is essentially a doli Med type with a hooked/convex nose that is one of the trademarks of Armenid, hinting at a process that involved the mixing of the Anatolian Meds with the former.

NE Anatolia was a treasured possession/conquest for both Greeks and Persians, for its silver mines and other treasures, ping-ponging between each other and as such resulting in Med/Armenid mixes in both populations (same for Romans/Byzantines and Turks later on).I am very ignorant about the racial types, but you might be right!

It could be a mix of the Western Anatolid/Cappadocian types and the Upper Mesopotamian/Southern Caucasus/Kura-Araxes types.


I am almost 100% certain than the ancient Urartu people who were the main ancestors of the Armenians were mostly Armenoide people and they were native to Anatolia.

[Dimitri159]

Armenid is a brachycephalic type, so its origins should be found in groups with genetic predispositions towards brachycephaly, that is why I believe it is associated with South Caucasus/NE Anatolia.


Brachycephaly is a European thing too; Dinaric and Alpine. Dinaric and Armenoid have a common ancestor. Just like how Atlanto-Med and Orientalid have a common ancestor. I know this is a hard pill for most people on TA to swallow but it’s facts.

The European race is not limited to the continent of Europe. And also skin color does not define a race. Arabs being brown does not make them a different race. It’s a climatic adaption.

[Tongio]

well, in reality nobody ever classifed ancient Neolithic Farmers in Europe as Armenoid, while Bell Beakers were ironically linked with them because of flattening of the occiput, nasal prominence etc.

Yeah."Armenid/dinoric " traits come from CHG gang.Anatolian farmers miraculously had much less of this ancestry then those bumpy nosed steppe folk

[Immanenz]

How many pictures of the Anatolian famers do we have from that time? It is obvious that the ancient Neolithic Farmers in Europe were for a very huge part related to the Anatolian Plateau. And IMO the Armenoide phenotype is native to the Anatolian Plateau.


I am a simple man. To me:

Anatolian = Armenoide

There is the point of confusion of convex nosed Meds with Armenoids while from craniometrical standpoint hard to distinguish with other brahcycephalic types like Alpine or Dinaric- everybody is preoccupied what Armenoid is but Armenanians etc have def. something that is foreign to South Europeans- especially to highly EEF West Meds/Sardninans, even if its a hard explainable "phenotypical drift".

Phenotypes are pseudo science- many relations predate our modern understanding of things, while there are some developements which make us all to some degree unique (like typical Turk, Russian, Belgian etc.)



The latter are also White/Caucasoid types anthropologically speaking and are connected to Mediterranean types of Europe. In the world of racial anthropology, skin color did not seem to matter.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/coonschem.jpg

As i said the connections are ancient and "Mediterranean" ancestry is spread up to the north of Europe and its not in negligable amount either.

[Guti]

but Armenians etc have def. something that is foreign to South Europeans- especially to highly EEF West Meds/Sardninans, even if its a hard explainable "phenotypical drift".Nevertheless, people like Armenians look more like (or closer to) Southern Europeans than like Northern Europeans.

Armenians can pass easier in the 'Anatolian farmer ancestry heavy' South European countries than in northern Europe. And there has to be a reason for that.

[Immanenz]

Nevertheless, people like Armenians look more like Southern Europeans than like Northern Europeans.

Armenians can pass easier in the Anatolian farmer ancestry heavy South European countries than in northern Europe. And there has to be a reason for that.

and who said Armenians look like North Europeans? North Europeans are very high in WHG and ANE and are light pigmented as well. All these factors make them already much different compared to South Europeans, let alone non-Europeans.

[Guti]

and who said Armenians look like North Europeans? North Europeans are very high in WHG and ANE and are light pigmented as well. All these factors make them already much different compared to South Europeans, let alone non-Europeans.I meant that Armenians look closer to the Southern Europeans than to Northern European because Armenians and Southern Europeans share more EEF/ANF ancestry with each other.

Northern Europeans have by far more steppes ancestry compared to the Armenians and even many Southern Europeans.

[Dimitri159]

and who said Armenians look like North Europeans? North Europeans are very high in WHG and ANE and are light pigmented as well. All these factors make them already much different compared to South Europeans, let alone non-Europeans.

Also more Steppe in the north. But Steppe and Anatolian Farmer admixture is what connects north and south Europeans, just frequencies of each are higher between north and south.

[Token]

Brachycephaly is a European thing too; Dinaric and Alpine. Dinaric and Armenoid have a common ancestor. Just like how Atlanto-Med and Orientalid have a common ancestor. I know this is a hard pill for most people on TA to swallow but it’s facts.

The European race is not limited to the continent of Europe. And also skin color does not define a race. Arabs being brown does not make them a different race. It’s a climatic adaption.
The unexposed, cleaned skin of most non-European caucasoids is white. Put a southern European Med under the sun of the Arabian desert for some years and see if he doesn't turn brown as well.

[Dimitri159]

The unexposed, cleaned skin of most non-European caucasoids is white. Put a southern European Med under the sun of the Arabian desert for some years and see if he doesn't turn brown as well.

Exactly my point. Middle Eastern people are almost always born with white skin with the exception of south Arabian and N. African populations due to heavy SSA admixture; Yemen, Oman, Morocco, etc.

[kingmob]

I know this is a hard pill for most people on TA to swallow but it’s facts.

The European race is not limited to the continent of Europe.


It's not a hard pill, it's just "white-washing" of WANA/MENA people, who have their own history and evolution, their own civs and culture, and do not need to be associated to/compared against Europeans constantly with such fake dillemas.

It's OWD behavior of the most embarrassing kind.

[Guti]

The unexposed, cleaned skin of most non-European caucasoids is white.
Why are you using an obsolete term such as 'caucasoid' for the 'Europoids'? European 'caucasoids' don't exist. Native people of Europe are 'europoids/white.

Real Caucasians/Caucasoids are only just Caucaso-Iranic people, native people of the Caucasus and the western parts of the Iranian plateau. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?364040-Origin-of-the-Caucasian-(Caucasus)-race-and-its-descedants.


I am part of a Caucasoid (Caucaso-Iranic) race and I don't want to be associated with other people.


Western Eurasians is much more an appropriate term...

[Token]

Why are you using an obsolete term such as 'caucasoid'. European 'caucasoids' don't exist. Native people of Europe are 'europoids/white.

Real Caucasians/Caucasoids are only just Caucaso-Iranic people, native people of the Caucasus and the western parts of the Iranian plateau. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?364040-Origin-of-the-Caucasian-(Caucasus)-race-and-its-descedants.

I am part of a Caucasoid (Caucaso-Iranic) race and I don't want to be associated with other people.

Western Eurasians is much more an appropriate term...
I don't care about your feelings nor about your fantasies about muh Caucaso-Iranic race. I will stick with the tradition in anthropology of calling the white race as "caucasoid".

[Guti]

I don't care about your feelings nor about your fantasies about muh Caucaso-Iranic race. I will stick with the tradition in anthropology of calling the white race as "caucasoid".You are outdated and you live in the past. It is obvious you don't care about modern science, since ancient and modern human DNA revealed that there is such a genetic super cluster of modern CHG, Iran_N and Iran_Chl people who are genetically very similar to each. Those people are the real 'Caucasoids' and belong to a Caucaso-Iranic race.

[Dimitri159]

It's not a hard pill, it's just "white-washing" of WANA/MENA people, who have their own history and evolution, their own civs and culture, and do not need to be associated to/compared against Europeans constantly with such fake dillemas.

It's OWD behavior of the most embarrassing kind.

Anthropological facts is not “white-washing”. Nobody said they are particularly “white” people, but they are Caucasoid and share a common ancestry with white Europeans.

[Immanenz]

You are outdated and you live in the past. It is obvious you don't care about modern science, since ancient and modern human DNA revealed that there is such a genetic super cluster of modern CHG, Iran_N and Iran_Chl people who are genetically very similar to each. Those people are the real 'Caucasoids' and belong to a Caucaso-Iranic race.

We are talking about phenotypes though- if you post people with very high CHG ancestry what will they be classified, with whom do they share artificial resemblance- this is what phentoype pseudoscience is all about. With all respect but most here cant follow that Anatolian Armenian vs Caucasus-Iranian battle, its like talking Flemish vs Finns (as if Flemish or Finns would be even some pure people but they arent as well) or something.

[kingmob]

Anthropological facts


What anthropological facts.

[Guti]

Anthropological facts is not “white-washing”. Nobody said they are particularly “white” people, but they are Caucasoid and share a common ancestry with white Europeans.Sure, we are all Western Eurasian, and it is obvious that many Western Eurasians share common ancestors, but only people who are of the Caucaso-Iranic race are the real Caucasoids.

I don't agree with when 'Caucasoid' (to which race I do belong) is used for the Europeans or the Semites (Arabs, Jews, etc.). There is a clear difference between Caucasoids (of Caucaso-Iranic race) and Semitic people as there is a clear difference between Caucasoids, Semitics and Europeans.

Europeans are simply Europoid or you can use 'white'. Why do you need to you the term 'Caucasoid'/Caucasian if it is already very clear when you use 'white' do refer to the Europeans?!


Semitics (Arabs/Jews) and Europeans are not Caucasian/Caucasoid, period!


Just use 'Western Eurasian' if you want to bring Europeans (Whites), Semitics and Caucasians (Caucaso-Iranics) under 1 umbrella.

[Dimitri159]

What anthropological facts.

Anthropological studies. Coon, Lundman, etc. Even in modern genetic studies Europe and the MENA cluster in the similar general range.

[Guti]

We are talking about phenotypes though- if you post people with very high CHG ancestry what will they be classified, with whom do they share artificial resemblance- this is what phentoype pseudoscience is all about. With all respect but most here cant follow that Anatolian Armenian vs Caucasus-Iranian battle, its like talking Flemish vs Finns (as if Flemish or Finns would be even some pure people but they arent as well) or something.Agreed to a degree.


Ancient Neolithic Anatolians and ancient CHG/Iran_N people were clearly very different species of very different races. They have nothing in common on the academic PCA maps.

But there is something that we should keep in mind. Modern Caucaso-Iranic people are still very close to the ancient CHG/Iran_N people. So, there is no much difference between modern and ancient Caucasians/Caucasoids.


For Europe it is a completely different picture. Most Europeans don’t cluster even close to the ancient WHG people. When you look at the academic PCA maps, modern Western Europeans cluster far away from the ancient WHG people.

So the genetic line between the ancient WHG and Western European is broken big time.

But the genetic line between ancient and modern Caucasoids is still intact. There is a genetic continuity between ancient and modern Caucasoids.

[Dimitri159]

Europeans are simply Europoid or you can you 'white'. Why do you need to you the term 'Caucasoid'/Caucasian if it is already very clea when you use ‘white’ do refer to the Europeans.

Because the Caucasoid race is extensive. There are sub-groups within, just like there are sub-groups for Asians; Turkic, South-Asian/Dravidian, Uralic, Sino/east Asian, Pacific Islander, etc.

[kingmob]

Anthropological studies. Coon, Lundman, etc..


Citation needed. The fact that Armenid is argued to be a distant relative to Dinard is hardly a qualifying factor.

[Guti]

Because the Caucasoid race is extensive.I think we have only minor differences in thinking.

It is a 'Western Eurasian' paragroup with Caucasian/Caucasoid (caucaso-iranic), European (white) and Semitic subgroups.

[Dimitri159]

I think we have only minor differences in thinking.

It is a 'Western Eurasian' paragroup with Caucasian/Caucasoid (caucaso-iranic), European (white) and Semitic subgroups.

Labeling is up for debate. But you got the general idea, yes.

[Guti]

Labeling is up for debate. But you got the general idea, yes.You can call 'Western Eurasians' whatever you want but that doesn't take away from that Caucaso-Iranic subrace is a real thing and is own genetic cluster. And that the people of the Caucasus and the western parts of the Iranian Plateau are genetically very similar to each other and closely related to the ancient CHG/Iran_N people. So, they do belong to their own specific genetic cluster (Caucaso-Iranic) and it is just native to Northwestern Asia, but heavily influenced by the ancient ANE mammoth hunters from Central Siberia.