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Pallantides
04-13-2011, 03:09 PM
Call for Samples


ADMIXTURE's quite sensitive to the variability present in its sample data in order to be more precise about relationships. Representative samples from certain regions would definitely improve the resolution, particularly for smaller components.

Thus I'm asking for 23andme genotype files. Complete anonymity is guaranteed. No health information will be collected from samples, only ancestral info. I will identify each individual only by a tag with country of birth of grandparents and if provided regional origin as well. I do think ADMIXTURE's powerful enough for at least some regional resolution.
So if a participant only wants to declare country of birth of his/hers 4 grandparents, that's enough but if you could provide regional origin as well (ie Cornwall, Munster, Bavaria) it would be much more useful.

I'm very interested in samples from Europe, like Ireland (particularly the Western part), UK (all, but more Cornwall, Wales, Scotland Highlands), Finland, Scandinavia (especially Norway), Iceland, Switzerland, Austria (especially Tirol), Slovakia, Carpathians in general (regions of Romania, Poland, etc), Germany, Ukraine, Iberia and France (especially Alps, Massif Central, Pyrenees) with regional identification. Plus people from the Americas with significant known Amerindian ancestry (tribe or regional-tagged please).
Also any mountain or island region in the world not represented in my current sample. I know I'm naming several regions with few participants in other projects. So I'm not even mentioning Madagascar, Sami, Indonesia, or Australian samples with known or possible aboriginal origin.
Since I'm anticipating a slow start, I'll probably accept any sample that is tagged with certain regional origin of each grandparent. I'll be making an announcement at 23andme tomorrow (I'm Diogenes412 over there).

So what do I offer? ADMIXTURE analysis in possible Neolithic/Forager element runs I've been publishing. In the future I may be doing more regional and historically more recent stuff as well, if possible.

You can email me at artemisproject.diogenes@gmail.com (or through the blog's email).

Regards
source (http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/04/call-for-samples.html)

Pallantides
04-13-2011, 03:25 PM
I just sent him my raw data. :)

Grumpy Cat
04-13-2011, 05:36 PM
I sent him mine, I am FRCA1

Pallantides
04-13-2011, 05:38 PM
I sent him mine, I am FRCA1

I have got no response from him... In my email I also included what region my parents are from.


Maybe he don't want Norwegians after all.

Grumpy Cat
04-13-2011, 06:16 PM
I have got no response from him... In my email I also included what region my parents are from.


Maybe he don't want Norwegians after all.

He replied to me after a day or two.

But I mentioned, my mother is old-stock French-Canadian, father Faroese.

Pallantides
04-13-2011, 06:17 PM
He replied to me after a day or two.

But I mentioned, my mother is old-stock French-Canadian, father Faroese.

Oh I thought you had just sent him the raw data and that he replied instantly!



Just ignore my post then...:embarrassed

Franz
04-13-2011, 08:27 PM
He's Portuguese and his theory: http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/03/clarifying-my-departing-point.html

I've started the current series of ADMIXTURE runs with an hypothesis I'm trying to test. I want to state it clearly and simply, because thats decisive in order for readers to understand the poles/experiments I'm guiding ADMIXTURE to do.

Here is the hypothesis put as a simple model:

1. The Neolithic Revolution was about a significant change in Humans. I happened due to selection over thousands of years in very few very special and uniquely rich and unstable environments around the world. This change influenced and was influenced mutually and gradually by technology and culture of the originally Forager people subjected to it.

2. Agricultural lifestyles allow for at least 10x higher population differences. Imagine for once this theoretical unreal situation: A land divided as a chess board into 10 squares; 5 inhabited by Neolithic people at 10ppl per square and 5 by Forager people at 1 person per square exclusively. Now imagine they mix. Total resulting population 10x5+5x1=55. Total resulting Forager contribution to gene pool: <10%. Once Neolithics dominate some regions, Foragers are a minority in their land even without wars and genocides (even though these last likely occurred).

3. Foragers don't invent or adapt to agricultural lifestyles because they do not possess such changes and can't develop them fast enough in most circumstances. They're predisposed to fight or flee instead. Their much lower densities make them prone to high-density disease they didn't evolve immunity to (but Neolithics did).

4. Foragers thus get swamped by agriculturalists, and populations become dominated by the Neolithic Core Area population. Since mostly men migrate, in ever larger numbers, almost all Y-DNA is Neolithic; much of the mt-DNA is forager (since early women were taken from forager populations, and later women descend from these); but autossomes are overwhelmingly Neolithic too.

5. Established Neolithic populations live at the Malthusian limit. Extra food means extra surviving children eating it.

6. The only major changes in such a setting involve invasion by populations with food producing advantages. Like better seeds, tools (techs); better organization for irrigation works (culture); major genetic advantages like better digestion of food products (lactose tolerance). Advantageous alleles still diffuse, but neutral genes remain overwhelmingly local.

7. "Invasions" and "Conquests" in such a setting are about militarized elites subjecting the peasants. Travelling is difficult and they are few compared to peasants. They live off rents collected from them, rather than join in the miserly peasant life. Since they despise peasants as serfs, they refer to themselves and their land by their minority identities. Thus we get "Roman" Tunisia; "Gothic" Ukraine; "Celtic" Anatolia, "British" Jamaica. This has no meaning as far as actual genetic constitution of the majority peasant population, but it's all contemporary authors talk about, as well as most contemporary luxury works.

8. If subjected populations live for long enough under the alien elite, they mix with it, appropriate their prestige tags, assimilate their prestige language with their substrate one, and much of material culture too. Thus French "Latins" with Celtic substrate, Bulgarian "Slavs", Anatolian "Turks", Egyptian "Arabs", etc. Elites do make a contribution on Y-DNA, since their societies transmit prestige patriarchally. But almost no mt-DNA. And little autossomical DNA, since elite Y-DNA bearers persist but successive wives are mostly local.

9. Slaves: slaves in settled agricultural societies do not have the impact they have in mostly unsettled Forager inhabited frontiers. Demographic success of agricultural slaves in the Americas is the exception not the rule for slave owning societies. Just like Agricultural minority success at Forager inhabited frontiers is the exception, and elite assimilation into settled populations the rule. African genes in the Americas expanded because they were able to join the early "Neolithic" gene pool there. They had high density disease immunity, agricultural knowledge, social and genetic adaptations, and the right crops versus Forager Amerindians in some regions. Slaves functioned as new rural "peasants" in untilled land from whom Barons extracted rents.

In Old World regions, where large peasant populations lived at the Malthusian limit, there was no advantage bringing slaves to till the land and replace the peasants. If a Baron could move the peasants from productive land so could he make them work as hard as slaves. Slaves were useful for house work, prestige, for city and mine labour. They had very severe social disadvantages. They generally died at far higher rates and reproduced a lot less than local peasants and so had to be continuously imported. They could not make large contributions to gene pools of very dense agricultural peoples, except if they carried food producing advantages, such as crops specially adapted to local circumstances. Slaves as a rule contribute a little mt-DNA, almost none Y-DNA and residual autossome DNA in such societies.

10. Over time, once a functioning advanced agricultural community is established, no matter how many elite invasions and conquests, or how many slaves brought; there might be small but significant changes to Y-DNA and mt-DNA respectively. But autossomes are likely to remain the same, with only residual contribution (except if food producing improvements are brought by migrants as said). At least until such times when machines till the soil, people don't live at the Malthusian limit, and they don't continue to reproduce even though food available.

Both presently, and in the Neolithic Revolutions, these assumptions don't hold. But in the intervening 10.000 years or so, they likely do.

Pallantides
04-14-2011, 06:47 PM
Yay


Hi
Your sample's ID will be Norway2.
Regards

Grumpy Cat
04-17-2011, 04:48 AM
First Results (http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/04/first-results.html)

Me (FRCA1):

Amerindian: 3.33%
Fertile Crescent: 96.76%
Siberian: 0.00%

Sample populations (http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/04/native-americans-native-europeans.html)

Looks like the Basque are the most European.

Pallantides
04-17-2011, 12:59 PM
3.57% Amerindian
2.18% Siberian
94.25% Fertile Crescent

Pallantides
04-17-2011, 02:07 PM
Populations used:
Amerindian (unadmixed Totonac+Surui+Karitiana); Siberian (Unadmixed Nganasan); and Fertile Crescent (Egyptians).

SEFI1(Swedish speaking Finn)

0.64% Amerindian
5.55% Siberian
93.81% Fertile Crescent

Sweden1

3.84% Amerindian
2.32% Siberian
93.84% Fertile Crescent

Norway1

3.35% Amerindian
1.40% Siberian
95.25% Fertile Crescent

Norway2

3.57% Amerindian
2.18% Siberian
94.25% Fertile Crescent

SwedenNorway1

2.88% Amerindian
96.90% Fertile Crescent

Agrippa
04-17-2011, 02:28 PM
3.57% Amerindian
2.18% Siberian
94.25% Fertile Crescent

You are a Middle Easterner. Now it's official :D

Pallantides
04-17-2011, 02:53 PM
You are a Middle Easterner. Now it's official :D

Yes.


94.25%
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/2817590195_2706a80e37.jpg

3.57%
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3tvOPXOd9xs/TGWJcbf4TCI/AAAAAAAAALM/o1VP9mq_QT4/s1600/dia+do+indio.jpg

2.18%
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TNYwfThz81I/AAAAAAAAC10/Jaq1P436tSQ/s1600/1ips07-Nganasan.jpg


:p

Olavsson
04-17-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm participating as Norway1, by the way. For once I was the first Norwegian to submit my raw-data. :thumb001:

Pallantides
04-17-2011, 03:17 PM
Olavsson I have an uncontacted 5th cousin with your haplogroups:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5996/40676836.png

Olavsson
04-17-2011, 03:27 PM
@ Pallantides:

Yeah, he's got almost the same haplogroups as me, but with one exception:
I've got a star ( * ) at the end of mine. ;)

Pallantides
04-17-2011, 03:34 PM
@ Pallantides:

Yeah, he's got almost the same haplogroups as me, but with one exception:
I've got a star ( * ) at the end of mine. ;)

I thought it was you for a second there, nvm.:)


edit* I do seem to have one who match that also:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7377/456u.png

Olavsson
04-17-2011, 03:54 PM
Well, that's interesting. Just try and make contact with him. If it's me, I'll accept. :cool: But of course, the haplogroups aren't too uncommon.

Don Brick
04-17-2011, 04:07 PM
OMG! I gotta do this asap! Looks awesome.

Loki
04-17-2011, 04:12 PM
I've just been accepted into this project, but haven't received my ID yet.

Loki
04-17-2011, 05:19 PM
I've just been accepted into this project, but haven't received my ID yet.

Just got it, I'll be Afrikaner1. :p

Electronic God-Man
04-17-2011, 05:23 PM
I will be USA9 next time around.

Franz
04-17-2011, 05:37 PM
First Results (http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/04/first-results.html)

North Europeans are showing Amerindian segments. Osweo had an Amerindian segment on Dr. McDonald's chromosome painting, and I think he would show it on this run. Too bad it can't distinguish the old from the more recent mixture like shown in USA2 who has recent admixture. The Siberian is probably more recent than the Amerindian.

Sahson
04-18-2011, 04:48 AM
I'm NEngland1, this (http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/04/first-results.html) says Im 97.3% fertile cresent and 2.36% armenian.

d3cimat3d
04-18-2011, 04:57 AM
I'm PonticCaspian

http://i52.tinypic.com/2944388.png

Grumpy Cat
04-18-2011, 05:00 AM
North Europeans are showing Amerindian segments. Osweo had an Amerindian segment on Dr. McDonald's chromosome painting, and I think he would show it on this run. Too bad it can't distinguish the old from the more recent mixture like shown in USA2 who has recent admixture. The Siberian is probably more recent than the Amerindian.

I'm thinking someone with real Amerindian admixture would show some Siberian.

Franz
04-18-2011, 05:00 PM
I'm thinking someone with real Amerindian admixture would show some Siberian.

If by "real", you meant present day Amerindians whose ancestors fused with Mongoloids on the way to or in America, then they might. If an unmixed Amerindian similar to the Amerindian reference was added, then it could show 100% Amerindian. East Asian ancestry from Japan would turn up as Siberian. Jews have some minor old Asian admixture, and that showed as Siberian. In Turks, it shows Siberian. The Amerindian references are from Latin America, so the Amerindian showing in Brazil1 could be similar and the Mongoloid within that. In USA2, the Amerindian tribe could be different than the reference used therefore showing the Mongoloid under Siberian. The project owner thinks the Amerindian in Europeans could be Solutrean hunter-gatherers, because he believes in the Solutrean theory.

Pallantides
04-18-2011, 05:32 PM
Brazil1 said something about a chinese ancestor on 23andMe

I am Brazil1

3.54 % Amerindian
0.43 % Siberian
96.03% Fertile Crescent

I have a distance Chinese ancestor but unknown and unlike Native Brazilian.

Also Sweden1 most likely have some Finnish ancestry, I believe one of his grandparents was a Finland-Swede.

Pallantides
04-18-2011, 08:14 PM
2.36% armenian.

It's Amerindian/Native American;)

Pallantides
04-18-2011, 11:31 PM
http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/04/unsupervised-northern-eurasianew_19.html

2.97% dark blue(Amerindian)
92.20% purple
4.82% pink(Nganasan)

Electronic God-Man
04-19-2011, 12:08 AM
^ No Amurikans?

Loki
04-19-2011, 02:03 AM
^ No Amurikans?

He said:



Tomorrow I'll present New World data


:)

Efim45
04-20-2011, 10:44 PM
Sweet got admitted, I'm Russia2!

Barreldriver
05-05-2011, 01:19 AM
My results, USA10:

2nd Wave Neolithic – 8.82%
Basque 5 (Warm river valley dweller, earlier wheat farmer wave) – 35.68%
Chuvash 5 (Cold adapted Rye farmer wave) – 55.51%

Efim45
05-05-2011, 01:48 AM
My results:
Basque5: 24.61%
Chuvash5: 75.38%
Amerindian: 0.00%

Not a big surprise there.

Osweo
05-05-2011, 02:16 AM
Just sent mine... :suomut:

Loki
05-05-2011, 07:04 AM
My results, Afrikaner1:

2nd Wave Neolithic – 12.06%
Siberian - 0.00%
Basque 5 – 36.02%
Chuvash 5 – 48.79%
Amerindian - 3.13%

^^ I calculated the Amerindian as the remainder from 100% - since when I hover my mouse over it, it doesn't show anything. There doesn't seem to be a spreadsheet with raw data on this.

Grumpy Cat
05-05-2011, 07:10 AM
FRCA1:

2nd Wave: 2.14%
Siberian: 0.00%
Basque: 41.39%
Chuvash: 54.20%
Amerindian: 2.27%

poiuytrewq0987
05-05-2011, 07:12 AM
Just sent my data in, going to post the results here once I get it.

Osweo
05-05-2011, 09:27 PM
Call me 'UKIE1' ;)

Electronic God-Man
05-05-2011, 10:49 PM
2nd Wave: 1.4%
Siberian: 1.21%
Basque: 38.5%
Chuvash: 58.89%
Amerindian: 0%

___________________-

OrageNocturne
05-07-2011, 05:16 PM
Data sent !
Very interesting project.

poiuytrewq0987
05-08-2011, 06:37 PM
I will include your results in today's or tomorrow's run. It will be a different analysis from previous ones though.

He didn't elaborate any further. Wonder what will be different.

poiuytrewq0987
05-12-2011, 12:33 AM
I am Serbia1.

http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/05/motherland-restricted-pole-run-part-ii.html

Loki
05-14-2011, 06:25 PM
Restricted Pole Run: Part IV- experiments, conjectures (http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/05/restricted-pole-run-part-iv-experiments.html)

My results:

Siberian1 - 0.00%
WMPC - 40.73%
NMPC - 46.58%
WMPC+NC - 6.25%
EMPC - 1.94%
WMPC+NWAf - 1.85%
Siberian1 - 1.51%
Siberian3 - 1.15%

Franz
05-15-2011, 04:04 AM
Populations highest with the components

WMPC: Basque/Sardinian
NMPC: peaks in Chuvash and high in Lithuanian and Belorussian
EMPC: Georgian, Urkarah, Lezgin, Kurd, Adygei, Brahmin, etc. (no order)
WMPC+NC: Palestinian, Druze

WMPC+NWAf: Tunisian
Siberian1: Nganassan
Siberian2: Yakut followed by Buryat
Siberian3: Mongolian, Koryak, Chukchi

Pallantides
05-15-2011, 12:53 PM
Norway2

Siberian1 - 0.61%
WMPC - 31.24%
NMPC - 66.80%
WMPC+NWAf - 0.81%
Siberian3 0.54%

d3cimat3d
05-15-2011, 02:28 PM
He blogged about me, how nice of him :D


PonticCaspian, a participant represented in the main graph above, with Moldavian Gagauz and some Ossetian ancestry presents much the same pattern except with higher WMPC (possibly due to proximity to Balkan/West Caucasus populations). Much of the same pattern can be observed in Altaians and Buryats, in a much smaller FC element.
I really don't see population changes after the initial invention/introduction of advanced pastoralism producing such an homogeneous pattern (bear in mind some of these are small components, indeed all of these in the Mongolian case are small, since they're mostly an Eastern population and can be overinflated by the exclusion of major "Siberian" ancestry). Certainly not from Mongolia to the far west. These patterns I think most likely roughly correspond to the original Kurgan pastoralist people, and possibly also to the ancient Tocharian peoples.

http://dioegenesartemis.blogspot.com/2011/05/inland-ocean-restricted-pole-run-part.html

Efim45
05-15-2011, 02:41 PM
Russia2
WMPC-29.56%
NMPC-70.43%

Pallantides
05-15-2011, 03:08 PM
Norway1

WMPC -38.13%
NMPC - 57.71%
WMPC+NC - 1.87%
EMPC - 0.07%
Siberian3 - 2.21%

Norway2

Siberian2 - 0.61% *
WMPC - 31.24%
NMPC - 66.80%
WMPC+NWAf - 0.81%
Siberian3 0.54%

Norway3

WMPC - 37.93%
NMPC - 59.11%
WMPC+NC - 1.64%
Siberian1 - 1.31%

Sweden1

WMPC - 34.22%
NMPC - 55.99%
WMPC+NC - 2.03%
EMPC - 3.41%
WMPC+NWAf - 1.76%
Siberian1 - 2.08%
Siberian3 - 0.50%

Sweden2

WMPC - 32.80%
NMPC - 67.09%
WMPC+NC - 0.05%
Siberian3 - 0.05%

SwedenNorway1

WMPC - 32.87%
NMPC - 58.69%
EMPC - 8.26%
Siberian3 - 0.18%

SwedenNorway2

WMPC - 34.50%
NMPC - 60.60%
EMPC - 4.21%
Siberian1 - 0.51%
Siberian 3 - 0.18%

SwedenNorway3

Siberian2 - 2.68%
WMPC - 30.60%
NMPC - 59.16%
EMPC - 7.55%

WNorway1

WMPC - 41.15%
NMPC - 58.84%

* I made an error, I'm 0.61% in Siberian2 and not Siberian1.

Electronic God-Man
05-15-2011, 03:32 PM
WMPC - 41.54%
NMPC - 51.76%
EMPC - 6.2%
Siberian3 - .5%

Someone help me out and tell me what these abbreviations mean?

d3cimat3d
05-15-2011, 03:35 PM
WMPC (peaks in Western Europeans, especially in Sardinians and Basques):


NPMC (peaks in Eastern Europeans, especially in Russians and Chuvashians):


EMPC (peaks in the Balkans and the Caucasus, especially in the Northern Caucasus):


Siberian 3 (peaks in Northeast Asians near the bering strait, especially in Koryaks and Chuckchis):

Barreldriver
05-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Results for mwa (USA10):

Siberian 2: 0%
WMPC: 39.34%
NMPC: 47.50%
WMPC+NC: 0%
EMPC: 13.16%
WMPC+NWAf: 0%
Siberian 1: 0%
Siberian 3: 0%

Sahson
05-21-2011, 11:43 AM
Norway2

Siberian1 - 0.61%
WMPC - 31.24%
NMPC - 66.80%
WMPC+NWAf - 0.81%
Siberian3 0.54%


Do you know who Norway1 is, I'd like to meet him/her.

Siberian2 - 0.00%
WMPC - 33.25%
NMPC - 57.92%
WMPC+NC - 0.24%
EMPC - 5.83%
WMPC+NWAf - 2.76%
Siberian1 - 0.00%
Siberian2 - 0.00%

Pallantides
05-21-2011, 01:39 PM
Do you know who Norway1 is, I'd like to meet him/her.



It's Olavsson
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?u=2568