Danish-Polish Brotherhood

[Peterski]

Some of Iron Age Poles were autosomally like Iron Age Jutland:

http://www.actabp.pl/#Archiwum?./supl/2_2018.html

https://i.postimg.cc/VN9xkBV3/Screenshot_20180929-073310_Drive.jpg

^^^ I guess it explains Denmark in my DNA Tribes results?:

http://i.imgur.com/RbNXQj9.png

[Peterski]

Increased mobility in Iron Age Europe:

http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/114/46/12213/F4.large.jpg

http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/114/46/12213/F4.large.jpg

"We also infer that this Holocene rise in mobility occurred in at least three distinct stages: the first centering on the well-known population expansion at the beginning of the Neolithic, and the second and third centering on the beginning of the Bronze Age and the late Iron Age, respectively. These findings suggest a strong link between technological change and human mobility in Holocene Western Eurasia and demonstrate the utility of this framework for exploring changes in mobility through space and time."

Links:

http://www.pnas.org/content/114/46/12213

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/09/22/t..._medium=twitter (https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/09/22/the-great-human-migrations-coming-in-waves/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Wrong]

Teutonic?


Comments?
What of Iron Age Pole yDNA?

[Peterski]

What of Iron Age Pole yDNA?

https://www.academia.edu/33791135/2017_Zenczak_.....Piontek_..._Y-chromosome_haplogroup_assignment_through_next_gene ration_sequencing_of_enriched_ancient_DNA_librarie s

http://i.imgur.com/GSuhSG5.png

[Loki]

I have no doubt it's probably Germanic/Gothic genetic influence. It was all over northern Europe, also in the East -- especially with regards to Gothic expansion.

[Peterski]

By the way there is also Polish admixture in Denmark:

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2016/05/ancient-polish-admixture-in-denmark.html?m=1

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q5soujXKI88/V72xtL5oRbI/AAAAAAAAEzk/-rO2C9rb5_AegJmu1Kiu0gU9pbLV___owCLcB/s1153/DK_clusters_%2526_admix.jpg

[Peterski]

I have no doubt it's probably Germanic/Gothic genetic influence. It was all over northern Europe, also in the East -- especially with regards to Gothic expansion.

Perhaps Germanic should be called Danishmic because apparently they were quite Un-German (in a modern sense). :p

Maybe modern Danes are indeed the most similar to Proto-Germanic people?:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?106192-Danes-are-the-most-Nordid-Germanic-people-in-Europe

[Nazarene]

This is one quality thread, wow

[Loki]

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q5soujXKI88/V72xtL5oRbI/AAAAAAAAEzk/-rO2C9rb5_AegJmu1Kiu0gU9pbLV___owCLcB/s1153/DK_clusters_%2526_admix.jpg

This is an interesting way of presenting things. I wonder what NL (orange) chart would look like.

[Jana]

So it seems East Germanic tribes such as Goths were pred. I1 ? Explains why eastern Europe has quite more I1 than R1b U106.

[Norb]

do you have any data for YDNA of other East Germanic tribes?

[Loki]

So it seems East Germanic tribes such as Goths were pred. I1 ? Explains why eastern Europe has quite more I1 than R1b U106.

I would have thought so, yes.

[Jana]

do you have any data for YDNA of East Germanic tribes?

yes
http://i.imgur.com/GSuhSG5.png

[Norb]

So it seems East Germanic tribes such as Goths were pred. I1 ? Explains why eastern Europe has quite more I1 than R1b U106.

Goths were I1, how about Vandals and others?

[Jana]

Goths were I1, how about Vandals and others?

IDK, but Langobards were mostly R1b U106, those in Italy mostly belong to such clades. Also it's certanly Frankish marker.
Vikings had R1a among them for sure.

[Ülev]

justice for Stears, he must be unbaned, I1 European community with I1 members

[Teutonski]

justice for Stears, he must be unbaned, I1 European community with I1 members

We will form a l1 union, fighting for minority rights

[Jana]

justice for Stears, he must be unbaned, I1 European community with I1 members

The coolest guys on TA are I1.....Dick, Teutone, Stears (RIP :(), and Bobby :D
Le Prieur is also another pretty cool VikI1ng guy :thumb001:

[TeutonicBoyars]

The coolest guys on TA are I1.....Dick, Teutone, Stears (RIP :(), and Bobby :D
Le Prieur is also another pretty cool VikI1ng guy :thumb001:

I'm I1 too and my mum says I'm pretty cool!

[Ülev]

-ski mode on:

Zawisza Czarny sailing ship in this video about Danish Bornholm proves everything
(0:42)
https://youtu.be/kuVKbAZOsvk
Polish Vikings there
-ski mode off

(clip originally used to this Kazmiera's thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?261190-6-Ice-Creams-That-Make-Everything-Else-Seem-Vanilla)














(-ski - polish surname endings)

[Profileid]

I fapped

[Norb]

I'm I1 too and my mum says I'm pretty cool!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/349/104/00d.jpg

[Turul Karom]

So it seems East Germanic tribes such as Goths were pred. I1 ? Explains why eastern Europe has quite more I1 than R1b U106.

R1b-U106 is from Eurasia in the first place. It is not surprising that it's considered Western or Germanic because of its prevalence in those areas. But R1b-U106 is not a Germanic exclusive group and I would assume a greater sized, older Germanic population to be predominantly I1-I2 of some sort before the R1 migrations/invasions.

https://i.imgur.com/INmVWif.jpg

[Aren]

IDK, but Langobards were mostly R1b U106, those in Italy mostly belong to such clades. Also it's certanly Frankish marker.
Vikings had R1a among them for sure.

Many of these samples collected so far both the Langobards and supposedly Goths are related, that's why see usually only a couple subclades.
But atleast one Langobard was R1a-Z284(the Scandinavian branch) and one I1 was found aswell.

[Aren]

R1b-U106 is from Eurasia in the first place. It is not surprising that it's considered Western or Germanic because of its prevalence in those areas. But R1b-U106 is not a Germanic exclusive group and I would assume a greater sized, older Germanic population to be predominantly I1-I2 of some sort before the R1 migrations/invasions.

https://i.imgur.com/INmVWif.jpg

Lol
There was no Germanic pre-R1 in Northern Europe. Oldest R1b-U106 is from a Battle Axe cemetery in Southern Sweden, second oldest from the Netherlands. It's clearly a very important, if not the most important haplgroup in the Germanic ethnogenesis.
Obviously it arrived from the east during the early Bronze AGe and there are some subclades that aren't Germanic(particularly in Czechia and Poland), but they are few.

[Turul Karom]

Lol
There was no Germanic pre-R1 in Northern Europe.

I don't get what you're saying here. Are you claiming I1-2 are not Germanic?


Oldest R1b-U106 is from a Battle Axe cemetery in Southern Sweden, second oldest from the Netherlands. It's clearly a very important, if not the most important haplgroup in the Germanic ethnogenesis.
Obviously it arrived from the east during the early Bronze AGe and there are some subclades that aren't Germanic(particularly in Czechia and Poland), but they are few.

Explain to me the German ethnogeneis then, in your own words, while also accounting for the large % of U106 in West-Central Asia as shown on the map? U106 is so old that the displacement during migrations and resettlements of populations over the last thousands of years, is no surprise to see an explosion of U106 from any region where it has been successfully spread by a founder effect and a change from nomadic raiding life into a farming/settled life. The fact that most Germanic/Dutch regions today have it is a matter of circumstantial inheritance from the progenitors who have brought all of R1 from the steppes.

[Token]

Not surprising, Poland was inhabited by Germanic people before the ancestors of modern-day Poles invaded and murdered them.

[Aren]

I don't get what you're saying here. Are you claiming I1-2 are not Germanic?

Indo-European languages spread with R1 lineages in Europe during the early Bronze Age. Ofc by the time of proto-Germanic several thousand years later, I1 and to a lesser extent some I2 lineages were also part of that ethnogenesis.


Explain to me the German ethnogeneis then, in your own words, while also accounting for the large % of U106 in West-Central Asia as shown on the map? U106 is so old that the displacement during migrations and resettlements of populations over the last thousands of years, is no surprise to see an explosion of U106 from any region where it has been successfully spread by a founder effect and a change from nomadic raiding life into a farming/settled life. The fact that most Germanic/Dutch regions today have it is a matter of circumstantial inheritance from the progenitors who have brought all of R1 from the steppes.
Large %, are we looking at the same map? According to who? Maciamo? I have no idea what kind of subclades or the diversity of R1b-M269 in general present in that specific area Maciamo himself has marked so there could be several plausible explanations. His maps are by no means 100% accurate. Undoubtedly R1b-M269 originated in the Pontic Steppes, but R1b-U106 has a TMRCA of 4700 ybp, corresponding quite well with the spread of Indo-Europeans westwards but post-dating Yamnaya. It probably originated further west, somewhere around the Carpathian Basin. The oldest sample which is from Sweden is dated 2300 BC and the most basal U106* is found in individuals from Sweden, Scotland and Spain. Not in Russia.
I think it's pretty safe to include it in the Germanic ethnogenesis along with several other subclades of R1a and I1, there are also some subclades of E1b and G2 that seem to correalate with Germanic speakers aswell.

[Ülev]

so why where you have almost all with R1b - Basques - they do not speak IE? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language, but everywhere with I1 - Germanic, I2a1b - Slavic, J2 - Latin

[Token]

so why where you have almost all with R1b - Basques - they do not speak IE? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language, but everywhere with I1 - Germanic, I2a1b - Slavic, J2 - Latin

There is still a remote possibility that Beakers - the people who spread R1b-P312 to Western Europe - spoke a Vasconic language. Not likely but possible.

[Aren]

so why where you have almost all with R1b - Basques - they do not speak IE? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language, but everywhere with I1 - Germanic, I2a1b - Slavic, J2 - Latin

Basques used to be quite matriarchal. Often historically the man would move in with the bride's family and the child adopted the culture and language of his mother. Which is why Basques have around 25-30% Steppe/Yamnaya admix, more than South Italians, Armenians, Kurds or Iranians yet they don't speak IE. There was a recent paper on Iberia stating that nearly all Neolithic lineages were wiped out by the Steppe-rich Beall Beakers who carried almost exlusively R1b-P312. The oldest Steppe Bell Beaker carrying P312 is from Saxony-Anhalt, not Iberia.

[Aren]

There is still a remote possibility that Beakers - the people who spread R1b-P312 to Western Europe - spoke a Vasconic language. Not likely but possible.

They probably did in Iberia since Proto-Basque formed way after the Steppe-rich Beakers arrived in Southwestern Europe. They probably mixed with them, aquired their Steppe/IE Y-DNA but didn't adopt the language.

[Token]

They probably did in Iberia since Proto-Basque formed way after the Steppe-rich Beakers arrived in Southwestern Europe. They probably mixed with them, aquired their Steppe/IE Y-DNA but didn't adopt the language.

I'm talking about the so-called steppe Beakers, how do you explain the Vasconic substratum in Insular Celtic languages that is completely absent on their continental counterparts? You could say that Megalithic builders spoke Vasconic and spread it to the isles at the Neolithic, but you'd need to explain where the Beaker language went; Vanished in thin air, even though we know that most of the modern British genepool derives from these people? Because British Beakers certainly didn't spoke Celtic.

[Aren]

I'm talking about the so-called steppe Beakers, how do you explain the Vasconic substratum in Insular Celtic languages that is completely absent on their continental counterparts? You could say that Megalithic builders spoke Vasconic and spread it to the isles at the Neolithic, but you'd need to explain where the Beaker language went; Vanished in thin air, even though we know that most of the modern British genepool derives from these people? Because British Beakers certainly didn't spoke Celtic.

Where can I read about this? Link?
I don't get though what importance this has? The origin of the material culture of the BB is quite disputed, but the oldest Steppe Beakers are from Eastern Germany. Beakers were not present just in Britain. Why would the supposedly Vasonic language of the Beakers only leave it's mark in the following language of a remote area of the former Beaker lands but not anywhere else? The British Beakers were basically identical to the Dutch ones both in the material used and auDNA. So the idea of British Beakers being unique and not speaking IE is not likely at all.

[Token]

Where can I read about this? Link?
I don't get though what importance this has? The origin of the material culture of the BB is quite disputed, but the oldest Steppe Beakers are from Eastern Germany. Beakers were not present just in Britain. Why would the supposedly Vasonic language of the Beakers only leave it's mark in the following language of a remote area of the former Beaker lands but not anywhere else? The British Beakers were basically identical to the Dutch ones both in the material used and auDNA. So the idea of British Beakers being unique and not speaking IE is not likely at all.
Forget where i wrote 'that is completely absent on their continental counterparts', that was a mistake. The hypothesized Vasconic substratum is present in every Western Indo-European languages but not in Balto-Slavic. This theory is still controversial and disputed, but lines up pretty well with the current archeological data, as Beakers were not as strongly present in Eastern Europe as in Western IE realm.

[Aren]

Forget where i wrote 'that is completely absent on their continental counterparts', that was a mistake. The hypothesized Vasconic substratum is present in every Western Indo-European languages but not in Balto-Slavic. This theory is still controversial and disputed, but lines up pretty well with the current archeological data, as Beakers were not as strongly present in Eastern Europe as in Western IE realm.

Well then I think this could make sense aswell Proto-Vasconic/Vasconic related > Beaker IE > Italo-Celtic/Germanic.

But like you mentioned, linguists seldom are in agreement. I would trust the aDNA in this case more so. High Steppe + almost exlusively Steppe derived Y-DNA does not convince me that they spoke a EEF language.

[TeutonicBoyars]

This theory is still controversial and disputed, but lines up pretty well with the current archeological data, as Beakers were not as strongly present in Eastern Europe as in Western IE realm.

What's weird is that according to Eurogenes K36 I have an above average portion of the Basque component; it's even more glaringly high given someone of my background (it seems Vasconic cultures were comparatively limited in both Scandinavia and Russia). This is not restricted to Eurogenes either, as some other ancient DNA test (although their accuracy is admittedly questionable) show a similarly relatively high component of Basque ancestry. Do you have any theories on what could cause this?

[Bogdan]

Fascinating.

[Peterski]

I have no doubt it's probably Germanic/Gothic genetic influence. It was all over northern Europe, also in the East -- especially with regards to Gothic expansion.

And apparently my mtDNA haplogroup is Gothic too, it was just found among Visigoths:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?282178-W6a-Balto-Slavic-or-Gothic

https://i.imgur.com/eQM1kTg.png

Not to mention that I have Spanish Y-DNA matches who can be descendants of Visigoths.

[Artek]

And apparently my mtDNA haplogroup is Gothic too, it was just found among Visigoths:

Look at the age estimations for W6a: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/W6a/

[Ülev]

thread tittle: Happy I'm not German but Danish



https://youtu.be/WW4xLRnNF8E

[Peterski]

Look at the age estimations for W6a: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/W6a/

^^^
Why aren't ancient W6a samples included in that tree & age estimates?:

https://www.thecid.com/

- W6a ~3260-2630 BC, Baltic Corded Ware, Plinkaigalis, Lithuania
- W6a ~2566-2477 BC, Corded Ware, Esperstedt, East Germany

And now we will have the 3rd ancient W6a sample (Spanish Visigoth).

As far as I know there are only these three ancient W6a samples to date.

[Cumansky]

Some of Iron Age Poles were autosomally like Iron Age Jutland:

http://www.actabp.pl/#Archiwum?./supl/2_2018.html

https://i.postimg.cc/VN9xkBV3/Screenshot_20180929-073310_Drive.jpg

^^^ I guess it explains Denmark in my DNA Tribes results?:

http://i.imgur.com/RbNXQj9.png

Why you got 35.8% Denmark? I only got for 5.8%

[Cumansky]

High for a Pole, somewhat unusual even western Pole

[cass]

Not surprising, Poland was inhabited by Germanic people before the ancestors of modern-day Poles invaded and murdered them.

LOL Most of Goths migrated into Ukraine in IIIc. Some stayed and merged with Slavonics. Official title of first Polish kingdom (Bolesław I the Brave) was Regnum Sclavorum, Gothorum sive Polonorum.

Btw Maslomecz and Kowalewko are well described as gothic cemeteries.
Pagan Slavs at that time usually practiced cremation

[Peterski]

LOL Most of Goths migrated into Ukraine in IIIc. Some stayed and merged with Slavonics. Official title of first Polish kingdom (Bolesław I the Brave) was Regnum Sclavorum, Gothorum sive Polonorum.

Btw Maslomecz and Kowalewko are well described as gothic cemeteries.
Pagan Slavs at that time usually practiced cremation

Some archaeological news about the Migration Period (new discoveries show the survival of Restgermannen in Kujawy and Wielkopolska to the 7th century AD, so maybe those Medieval sources saying "Misico Dux Vandalorum" about Mieszko I or "Regnum Sclavorum, Gothorum sive Polonorum" about Bolesław I were not totally exaggerating):

Quote:

"W ubiegłym roku ukazała się praca zbiorowa 'Archeologia dawnego osadnictwa Wielkopolski', gdzie znajdziemy chyba najnowsze artykuły nt. reliktowego wielkopolskiego osadnictwa germańskiego u progu średniowiecza i przybycia Słowian. Schyłek Germanów podsumowuje Henryk Machajewski (Ze studiów nad okresem wędrówek ludów w Wielkopolsce) a przybycie Słowian Ewa i Paweł Pawlak (Najdawniejsze siedziby Słowian w Wielkopolsce na podstawie wybranych źródeł archeologicznych), przy tym wychodząc ponoć z jakąś nową wizją pojawienia się Słowian w Wielkopolsce. Książka jest już wyprzedana, więc jej nie zamówiłem i artykułów nie znam.

W przygotowaniu do druku jest już praca relacjonująca wyniki projektu Okres Wędrówek Ludów w dorzeczu Odry i Wisły. Ukaże się po angielsku pod tytułem 'Migration Period between Oder and Vistula' pod red. A. Bursche i A. Zapolskiej. Podobno ostatecznie główną rewelacją ma być jednak nie Wielkopolska a Kujawy, gdzie enklawy miały trwać co najmniej do VII w."

^^^
Kujawy was at the intersection of most important trade routes including the Amber Road. Also Roman military presence was discovered in Kujawy recently. A Roman legionary camp was discovered in Gąski in 2018, and it existed for a long time, between 1st and 4th centuries AD:

http://naukawpolsce.pap.pl/aktualnosci/news%2C29296%2Carcheolog-mamy-dowody-na-obecnosc-rzymskich-legionistow-na-terenie-polski

https://www.tvp.info/36963616/rzymscy-legionisci-na-terenie-polski-sensacyjne-odkrycie-na-kujawach

Also Dacian influence is visible in archaeology there.

Scurgum, Askaukalis, Setidava (Dacian name), Kalisia, Arsonium, Leukaristos could be settlements located along the Amber Road in Poland. Askaukalis is identified with a settlement excavated in Krusza Zamkowa near Inowrocław. Setidava is identified with Konin. Kalisia is identified with Kalisz. It goes from north to south along the Amber Road. Leukaristos could be used as a Roman military camp, but probably not the one in Kujawy but another one (not yet discovered) in Southern Poland. Here is an article debunking the idea that Leukaristos had to be Trencin just because an inscription mentioning this name was discovered in Trencin:

http://aldrajch.blogspot.com/2016/09/leuco-ristus-czyli-szukajcie-obozu.html

Quote: "(...) germanista Much podaje celtycką etymologię tej nazwy *leuco-ristus 'Lichtenwald' ('Świetlisty-las') albo 'Lichtenberg' ('Świetlista-góra' = 'Łysa Góra'). Jest to zgodne z naszą wiedzą na temat celtyckiego osadnictwa na Górnym Śląsku (np. o dużej celtyckiej osadzie w dzisiejszej Nowej Cerekwi, ok. 80 km na na południe od Opola)."

Another hypothesis locates it near Leszno:

http://www.poselska.nazwa.pl/wieczorna2/historia-starozytna/rzymianie-w-polsce-oboz-legionow-rzymskich-w-leucaristo-kolo-leszna

Written sources also confirm that under Emperor Domitian the Romans sent a unit of 100 equites to help the Lugians (in Poland) fight against the Suebi.

More about archaeology in Kujawy, quote:

"Wcześniej pogląd był taki, iż osadnictwo na Kujawach załamało się całkowicie i to wcale nie dopiero pod koniec OWL.

Natomiast Kujawy, z tego co wiemy od dość dawna, wyróżniały się pozytywnie gospodarczo. Już w okresie przedrzymskim wyróżnia się tu grupę kruszańską z jej m.in. świątyniami na cmentarzyskach (duża w tym okresie tutaj ilość pochówków szkieletowych) i domowymi. To na Kujawach spotykały się ze sobą dwie najważniejsze odnogi Szlaku Bursztynowego. To tutaj powstały pierwsze w kulturze przeworskiej pracownie obróbki bursztynu (i działały do schyłku starożytności). Tu też wyraźnie bardziej ceniono hodowlę owiec i kóz oraz trzody chlewnej a nie tylko bydła. Mamy uchwycone świetnie działające roszarnie (obróbka lnu), warzelnie soli, warsztat produkcji grzebieni. Uwidaczniają się długotrwałe wpływy kultury dackiej z terenów Rumunii. Niezwykłe jest cmentarzysko w Lachmirowicach wyróżniające się wielką ilością importów, w tym wyrobów rzymskich jakie rzadko trafiały do Barbaricum. Pochowano tam doskonale wyposażonych wojowników, stąd przypuszczało się, iż ochraniali oni Szlak Bursztynowy.

Wreszcie tutaj leżą rozsławione ostatnio Gąski, gdzie długi czas mieli przebywać rzymscy legioniści. Artykuł na ten temat ukaże się w 'Migration period between Oder and Vistula' (B. Kontny, M. Rudnicki, Late Roman and Migration Period military equipment). Rzymscy żołnierze pojawili się w okolicach Gąsek-Wierzbiczan w okresie wczesnorzymskim, intensywnie zaznaczyli w III w., ale dali o sobie znać również w wieku kolejnym. W tych ostatnich stuleciach armia rzymska uległa barbaryzacji, więc mogli tu wracać rekruci po odbytej służbie. Kontny zwraca uwagę na istniejące w 2. poł. III w. samozwańcze cesarstwo Imperium Galliarum, które ochoczo wykorzystywało oddziały germańskie. Poza tym Wandalowie najechali wraz z Gotami w 270 r. Panonię. Pokonał ich cesarz Aurelian a w traktacie pokojowym nakazał dostarczyć Rzymianom oddział 2 tys. wandalskich jeźdźców. Niedługo później w Egipcie daje o sobie znać oddział ala VIII Vandiliorum."

Marcin Rudnicki published a lot about Lugians. I also recommend "Vistula amne discreta" book by Jerzy Kolendo.

Kujawy was at the border between Przeworsk (Notec River and Vistula River was the northern border), Wielbark to the north (Goths, Gepids), and Burgundians to the west. Kujawy itself belonged to Przeworsk (Vandals and Lugians).

[Peterski]

Look at the age estimations for W6a: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/W6a/

Unfortunately, Spanish Visigoth with W6a has not yet been added to that tree, so we don't know to which subclade of W6a he belonged. I'm also not there, because I only have a basic mtDNA test - if I want to be added to that W6a tree on YFull, I need to buy mtDNA Full Sequence for my maternal grandmother and send my results to Y-Full. I will wait with that until they examine and add the Visigothic W6a.

What if it turns out that that this Visigoth belonged to the same branch as MG646162.1 and MH120447.1 (W6a1a)?

This branch - W6a1a - has TMRCA ca. 2100 years before present and only exists in Poland, according to that tree.

[Grace O'Malley]

This is what I got on that test.

http://i65.tinypic.com/20p1wyc.jpg

But I did get Ireland as my top match.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2zi8m5g.jpg

[Peterski]

This is what I got on that test.

That's not the best model they gave you though, you should rather look at the model which explains the largest part of your ancestry, so in this case the 2nd model is the best (the sum is 16% + 68% + 11% = 95%; while in the 1st model the sum is 8% + 73% + 8% = only 89%). In the 2nd model you got 68% Ireland (instead of 73% Denmark) and this model is the best (since it adds up to 95%, more than any other model):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?252075-My-parents-DNA-Tribes-results&p=5272874&viewfull=1#post5272874

^^^ Here is the screenshot you posted with your full results (iterative population admixture):

http://i64.tinypic.com/iqwy37.jpg

In case of my mom there are two models which add up to 100% and for my dad the best model is the 1st one (98%).


But I did get Ireland as my top match.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2zi8m5g.jpg

As well as on Iterative population admixture, where you got Ireland in their 2nd model / run.

In Table 3. they modeled you as a mix of Denmark + Spain Galicia + Basque, where Spain Galicia and Basque represent an additional level of Atlantic Facade Neolithic/Megalithic ancestry (Pre-Bell Beaker ancestry) that is present in the British Isles, but not in Denmark.

Pre-Beaker inhabitants of Ireland were similar to Neolithic Spanish Farmers, hence several % Spain Galicia.

[Peterski]

In 5th run they model you as 59% Scottish Orkney + 20% Czech* + 12% Spain Galicia, that's a lot of Spanish.

I'm "Iberian" R1b-DF27 but I pretty much get 0% Iberian on all autosomal tests (and so does my dad who is R1b-DF27).

And now apparently W6a was found in "Iberian Visigoth" as well, so both of my haplogroups are "Iberian".

*BTW, Czech could represent something related to Celtic expansion from Central Europe to the British Isles.

[Grace O'Malley]

That's not the best model they gave you though, you should rather look at the model which explains the largest part of your ancestry, so in this case the 2nd model is the best (the sum is 16% + 68% + 11% = 95%; while in the 1st model the sum is 8% + 73% + 8% = only 89%). In the 2nd model you got 68% Ireland (instead of 73% Denmark) and this model is the best (since it adds up to 95%, more than any other model):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?252075-My-parents-DNA-Tribes-results&p=5272874&viewfull=1#post5272874

^^^ Here is the screenshot you posted with your full results (iterative population admixture):

http://i64.tinypic.com/iqwy37.jpg

In case of my mom there are two models which add up to 100% and for my dad the best model is the 1st one (98%).



As well as on Iterative population admixture.

In Table 3. they modeled you as a mix of Denmark + Spain Galicia + Basque, where Spain Galicia and Basque represent an additional level of Atlantic Facade Neolithic/Megalithic ancestry (Pre-Bell Beaker ancestry) that is present in the British Isles, but not in Denmark.

Pre-Beaker inhabitants of Ireland and Britain were similar to Neolithic Spanish Farmers.

My purpose though was to show that you shouldn't take any of these tests literally. They are like nMonte breakdowns. I wonder what sort of breakdown would a Dane get?

[Peterski]

My purpose though was to show that you shouldn't take any of these tests literally.

Well you shouldn't take any DNA test literally in general.

I'm waiting for my 23andMe results now, and I doubt they will be any better or more accurate than any other test I took so far.

But 23andMe uses a methodology which makes results less mixed, so I'll probably score higher % Polish than on any other test.


I wonder what sort of breakdown would a Dane get?

Danish people tend to score ~20% British on 23andMe:

https://i.imgur.com/Y98z9SP.png

^^^ But maybe it is from the Celtic Cimbri in Jutland:

http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf

[Peterski]

23andMe Recent Ancestors Feature (basically the regions within countries that they started reporting recently) is based on Family Matching.

So if I score any NW Euro and I have matches (genetic cousins) who are Scottish in their database, they should report Scotland. If most of my matches from this side are German, they will report Germany. If my matches from this side are Danish, they will report Danish.

I still don't think it will tell me about the origin of my NW Euro admixture (for example if it is from Ancient Celts or from Modern Germans).

[Grace O'Malley]

Well you shouldn't take any DNA test literally in general.

I'm waiting for my 23andMe results now, and I doubt they will be any better or more accurate than any other test I took so far.



Danish people tend to score ~20% British on 23andMe:

https://i.imgur.com/Y98z9SP.png

^^^ But maybe it is from the Celtic Cimbri in Jutland:

http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf

Ancestry and 23andMe are very good. I like Ancestry because they have Genetic Communities. I wonder what breakdown a Dane would get on this particular test? The tests I don't take too literally are the ones that try to breakdown your dna too much. Although if you have enough of these tests you do get similar results but they aren't really showing you ancestry.

These are my Ethnogene results and you can see a similar pattern here.

http://i65.tinypic.com/ra2seq.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/11rys7b.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/mutuae.jpg[/QUOTE]

Possibly in the future tests might be able to look at deep ancestry using IBD. What do you think? Although I think some populations are always going to have some shared genetics anyway. Europeans are all relatively close anyway (especially Northwesterners).

[Peterski]

Ancestry's Genetic Communities are also based on family matching.

And Matxe92 got "West Mormon Pioneers" as a Genetic Community (even though he has never been to America, nor any of his ancestors):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?284087-Rate-my-old-AncestryDNA-results

So clearly they confused source/origin with destination in this case.


Possibly in the future tests might be able to look at deep ancestry using IBD. What do you think? Although I think some populations are always going to have some shared genetics anyway.

Perhaps yes, but I think this will only be really accurate when Full Genome Tests become common and cheap.

Currently typical raw datas from companies are not capturing 100% of your autosomal DNA but just a sample. And each company has a different sample of your autosomal DNA depending on which chip they are using. So it is a good idea to merge your raw data files.

[Grace O'Malley]

Ancestry's Genetic Communities are also based on family matching.

And Matxe92 got "West Mormon Pioneers" as a Genetic Community (even though he has never been to America, nor any of his ancestors):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?284087-Rate-my-old-AncestryDNA-results

So clearly they confused source/origin with destination in this case.



Perhaps yes, but I think this will only be really accurate when Full Genome Tests become common and cheap.

Currently typical raw datas from companies are not capturing 100% of your autosomal DNA but just a sample. And each company has a different sample of your autosomal DNA depending on which chip they are using. So it is a good idea to merge your raw data files.

Ancestry's Genetic Communities are quite good though. The problem is that they have a huge amount of American testers (it is an American company after all) but their GCs are really impressive and they will get better with larger databases outside of US testers and technology as well.

[Peterski]

Ancestry's Genetic Communities are quite good though.

Yes, but as recently as two years ago in 2017 none of the biggest companies (23andMe, Ancestry, etc.) bothered to attempt reporting regions within countries. They figured out a way to report regions only after they got competition from smaller companies which started offering regional breakdowns.

As a rule the ones who monopolized the market will not introduce new costly changes unless pushed to do so by new players on the market.

If you asked 23andMe back in 2017 if it was possible to report ancestry from small regions (like Connacht for example), they would say: no.

At that time tests lacked detail especially for East Europeans, they did not attempt to tell apart ancestry from different countries in Eastern Europe. If I ordered 23andMe back in 2017 / early 2018 they would report "Eastern Europe xx %", without specifying I'm from Poland, let alone which region.

[Peterski]

The point is, 23andMe started reporting country and regional breakdowns of ancestry because they were forced to do so by smaller competition.

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes, but as recently as two years ago back in 2017 none of these biggest companies (23andMe, Ancestry, etc.) bothered to attempt reporting regions within countries. They figured out a way to report regions only after they got competition from smaller companies which offered regional breakdowns.

As a rule the ones who monopolized the market will not introduce new costly changes unless pushed to do so by new players on the market.

No one would say competition isn't good. All the tests are interesting and help in understanding your dna. I like population genetics and seeing what similarities and differences populations have. As I said already I'm really interested in ancient genomes and who contributed to European populations.

[Dick]

I get Denmark on Dnatribes too. I don't think it's a big deal



https://i.imgur.com/ABRAe4D.png

[Peterski]

I get Denmark on Dnatribes too. I don't think it's a big deal

https://i.imgur.com/ABRAe4D.png

Goths were most similar to Jutland Iron Age, probably that's why (and they were in the Balkans too).

Check also this poster, "Early migrations of the Goths through the territory of contemporary Poland":

https://www.embo-embl-symposia.org/symposia/2019/EES19-02/index.html

[Dick]

Goths were most similar to Jutland Iron Age, probably that's why (and they were in the Balkans too).

Check also this poster, "Early migrations of the Goths through the territory of contemporary Poland":

https://www.embo-embl-symposia.org/symposia/2019/EES19-02/index.html

Gothic theory in the Balkans is overrated. I dont buy it.

[Croatian Legend]

UUUPS wrong post