Which genetic clustering of Italy and Balkans on genetic tests makes most sense?

[Sikeliot]

I think places like AncestryDNA get it wrong.

Which makes most sense? These are some combinations of clusters that either have been tried and in my view do not work, or those which should exist and don't.

A.
Mainland Greece/Albania
North Italy/South France
Central Italy
South Italy/Sicily and Aegean Islands

B.
North Italy/South France
Central Italy
South Italy/Greece
Albania

C.
Italy/Greece

D.
Italy
Greece/Albania/Turkey

E.
Greece (mainland and islands)
Italy (north and south)
Albania

[Kaspias]

Italy
Greece/Albania/Turkey
Greek Islander/Sicillian

[Sikeliot]

Italy
Greece/Albania/Turkey
Greek Islander/Sicillian

Turkey is not genetically close to Albania and Greece though.

[Bobby Martnen]

If a DNA test company grouped Greeks and Albanians together, they would never hear the end of it from angry nationalists...

[Kelmendasi]

Italy
Greece/Albania/Turkey
Greek Islander/Sicillian
The Greece/Albania/Turkey cluster makes no sense. Albanians and Greeks are distinct genetically from Turks

[Bobby Martnen]

North Italy
South Italy
Greece
Balkans

And some groups will come up as a mix of some of these (i.e. Central Italians will come up as North/South Italy mix. Shqiptars will come up as Greece/Balkans mix)

[Jana]

North Italy is genetically diverse, NW is different from NE

[Sikeliot]

North Italy
South Italy
Greece
Balkans

And some groups will come up as a mix of some of these (i.e. Central Italians will come up as North/South Italy mix. Shqiptars will come up as Greece/Balkans mix)

What about Aegean islanders?

[Kelmendasi]

To me it seems like Albanians plot closest with Tuscans and Greeks from the mainland, whilst the Aegean islanders plot more with Southern Italy and Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

To me it seems like Albanians plot closest with Tuscans and Greeks from the mainland, whilst the Aegean islanders plot more with Southern Italy and Sicily.

This is correct. So the question is should Greece and Italy be divided in the clusters to represent this or is it more important to pretend nations all are genetically similar and not divided? :lol:

[Bobby Martnen]

What about Aegean islanders?

They'll probably score a mix of South Italian and Greek

[Kelmendasi]

This is correct. So the question is should Greece and Italy be divided in the clusters to represent this or is it more important to pretend nations all are genetically similar and not divided? :lol:
Not sure, I guess genetically Greeks are more similar to Aegean Islanders than they are to Albanians through things like IBD but in terms of plotting they aren't

[Sikeliot]

Not sure, I guess genetically Greeks are more similar to Aegean Islanders than they are to Albanians through things like IBD but in terms of plotting they aren't


That is due to mainland Greek genetic contribution on some of the islands. On the other hand, you will not find mainland Greeks who are significantly Near Eastern like some islanders.

[Kaspias]

The Greece/Albania/Turkey cluster makes no sense. Albanians and Greeks are distinct genetically from Turks

Turk_Edirne(EasternThrace)

East_Med 20.55
North_Atlantic 17.72
Baltic 17.43
West_Med 15.8
West_Asian 15.8
Siberian 4.45
Red_Sea 3.35
East_Asian 2.06
Amerindian 1.03
South_Asian 0.84
Oceanian 0.45
Northeast_African 0.3
Sub-Saharan 0.24

Also there are Balkan Turks too..


That is due to mainland Greek genetic contribution on some of the islands. On the other hand, you will not find mainland Greeks who are significantly Near Eastern like some islanders.


Plots taking average of Turkey, i'm talking about Western Turks. Answer for your reply in other thread.

[Kelmendasi]

Turk_Edirne(EasternThrace)

East_Med 20.55
North_Atlantic 17.72
Baltic 17.43
West_Med 15.8
West_Asian 15.8
Siberian 4.45
Red_Sea 3.35
East_Asian 2.06
Amerindian 1.03
South_Asian 0.84
Oceanian 0.45
Northeast_African 0.3
Sub-Saharan 0.24

Also there are Balkan Turks too..




Plots taking average of Turkey, i'm talking about Western Turks. Answer for your reply in other thread.
We're taking into consideration Turkey as a whole, as a population the Turks are nothing like Albanians, Greeks or any European group for that matter. They form their own cluster with western Asians. Even Western Turks don't seem close genetically with Albanians or most Greeks. Balkan Turks have heavy Balkan admix.

[Kaspias]

We're taking into consideration Turkey as a whole, as a population the Turks are nothing like Albanians, Greeks or any European group for that matter. They form their own cluster with western Asians. Even Western Turks don't seem close genetically with Albanians or most Greeks. Balkan Turks have heavy Balkan admix.

I'm thinking same with ancestry.com about this topic. Western Turkey with Greece, Albania and rest with Caucasus.

Western Turks more closer to Greeks and Albanians than typical West Asians in my opinion. At least in my obervation.

[Kelmendasi]

I'm thinking same with ancestry.com about this topic. Western Turkey with Greece, Albania and rest with Caucasus.

Western Turks more closer to Greeks and Albanians than typical West Asians in my opinion. At least in my obervation.
Well of course they are the closer to Greek and Albanians when compared to other west Asians, but genetically they still aren't similar to either group and would be closer to other Turks who in turn are west Asian genetically. The cluster is very nonsensical. It would be more realistic to cluster Italians, Greeks and Albanians rather than Turks, Albanians and Greeks.

[Cleitus]

I'm thinking same with ancestry.com about this topic. Western Turkey with Greece, Albania and rest with Caucasus.

Western Turks more closer to Greeks and Albanians than typical West Asians in my opinion. At least in my obervation.

Not true at all. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/WestEurasia_admixture_crop.png

Western Turks of course have a lot of greek/Balkan admixture.

[TrulyBliss]

If we take away nationalistic views, a rough autosomal similarity of the Italian and South Balkan region would look something like this. Similarities transcend national borders, whether people like it or not.

https://serving.photos.photobox.com/00076961017ca05c2ea759a740c6646f00be3e2c106c6e32cc dc5def0f6e60ba9068c0bc.jpg

[Kaspias]

Not true at all. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/WestEurasia_admixture_crop.png

"at all" As i said Turkey has 81m population that is much more than Albania+Kosovo+Greece population, you're right if we take Turkey average. I'm trying to tell Western Turks could be clustering with Greeks.
And you keep sending me Turkey average. I already explained...

Look.


Turk_Edirne

East_Med 20.55
North_Atlantic 17.72
Baltic 17.43
West_Med 15.8
West_Asian 15.8
Siberian 4.45
Red_Sea 3.35
East_Asian 2.06
Amerindian 1.03
South_Asian 0.84
Oceanian 0.45
Northeast_African 0.3
Sub-Saharan 0.22

Turk_Istanbul

East_Med 24.5
West_Asian 21.64
North_Atlantic 16.26
West_Med 13.98
Baltic 12.21
Siberian 3.81
Red_Sea 2.79
East_Asian 2.31
South_Asian 1.84
Oceanian 0.34
Northeast_African 0.32

Turk_Kirklareli

East_Med 22,52
West_Asian 18,72
North_Atlantic 16,98
West_Med 14,89
Baltic 14,82
Siberian 4,13
Red_Sea 3,07
East_Asian 2,18
South_Asian 1,34
Amerindian 0,51
Oceanian 0,39
Northeast_African 0,31
Sub-Saharan 0,14


Turk_Aegea

East_Med 23.91
West_Asian 18.62
North_Atlantic 16.97
West_Med 12.83
Baltic 9.45
Siberian 8.29
East_Asian 2.87
Red_Sea 2.86
South_Asian 2.46
Amerindian 1.05
Sub-Saharan 0.5
Northeast_African 0.19


And for comparison;

Greek:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.3
2 West_Med 20.45
3 North_Atlantic 17.19
4 West_Asian 15.39
5 Baltic 14.8
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 Siberian 1.01
8 Oceanian 0.7
9 East_Asian 0.57
10 Northeast_African 0.41
11 Sub-Saharan 0.22


Central Anatolian Turk:

West_Asian 32,57
East_Med 28,22
West_Med 11,11
North_Atlantic 5,85
Baltic 5,4
Siberian 5,01
Red_Sea 4,73
South_Asian 3,51
East_Asian 2,43
Amerindian 0,48
Oceanian 0,43
Northeast_African 0,17
Sub-Saharan 0,09

[Mingle]

Albania, Mainland Greece, Central Italy
South Italy, Aegean Islands
North Italy, South France
Sardinia

[kleenex]

Generally speaking A makes the most sense

[kleenex]

Albania, Mainland Greece, Central Italy
South Italy, Aegean Islands
North Italy, South France
Sardinia

Could go with this as well.