What is the cut off for Roma admixture?

[Mortimer]

I think in real life from my experience mostly 1/4 especially if its indirect and its the grandmother not the direct the grandfather from the father or like that. Maybe only if the roma is very strongly visible still that its not the cut off. Half Roma are usually seen as Roma.

Opinions?

[Tauromachos]

For Gitano Vero only 1% or even one drop of Roma blood is already a cut off


An interesting question would be what Roma themselves would consider to be the cutt off

[Mortimer]

An interesting question would be what Roma themselves would consider to be the cutt off

This is fluent and not set in stone. I heard once there is a roma law similar as a jewish law that if your father is roma you are hundred percent roma, if your mother is roma you are half roma. So if your grandfather is roma you could be hundred percent roma even if you are only a quarter, but this is probably in some tribes and who also reject intermarriage etc. Im from roma who dont reject intermarriage dont speak roma language etc. Also some roma would say they are greeks or serbs and feel as that, even if they dont look it at all. My mum for example. Imagine she didnt look roma at all, she would never mention it. That would be even stronger for a only quarter roma who has also alot of non-roma relatives and ancestors. I think this would depend on the situation. I dont think roma have a cutt off, if someone identifies as roma and has some ancestry and lives like a roma he would be accepted. I think even Moje Ime said "way of life can make you more or less roma somehow".

[Mortimer]

For Gitano Vero only 1% or even one drop of Roma blood is already a cut off




I think he means in the phenotype like someone looks a bit roma, if its visible. I dont think he literally means it. He even accepts alnortedelsur and he is 7% amerindian and 5% african. Why there would be a difference?

[Tauromachos]

I think he means in the phenotype like someone looks a bit roma, if its visible. I dont think he literally means it.


I think if a person is 99% European and 1% Roma its hardly visible in the phenotype

This person will look exactly what people from his European ethnicity look like

If you ask me personally i agree with 1/4

I think someone who is half Gypsy and grows up in a Roma community with the Roma tradition is certainly Roma since
he will be accepted also by the Roma themselfes as full Romani i guess in particular if his fathers side is Roma

If you grows up in the Mainstream society with no particular ties to other Roma or Roma traditions the question is more
tricky

I would say if he doesn't identidy with his Roma side in that case he may also be considered not Roma but it will probably show more or less in his phenotype
that he has Roma ancestry in the sense that he will look different from the average people in his country




He even accepts alnortedelsur and he is 7% amerindian and 5% african. Why there would be a difference?

Ok this is cool

[Mortimer]

I think if a person is 99% European and 1% Roma its hardly visible in the phenotype

This person will look exactly what people from his European ethnicity look like

If you ask me personally i agree with 1/4

I think someone who is half Gypsy and grows up in a Roma community with the Roma tradition is certainly Roma since
he will be accepted also by the Roma themselfes as full Romani i guess in particular if his fathers side is Roma

If you grows up in the Mainstream society with no particular ties to other Roma or Roma traditions the question is more
tricky

I would say if he doesn't identidy with his Roma side in that case he may also be considered not Roma but it will probably show more or less in his phenotype
that he has Roma ancestry in the sense that he will look different from the average people in his country




Ok this is cool

I didnt noticed that my dad was not accepted as serb but i didnt saw him telling people that he is quarter roma. If he did he might have gotten some backlash but he just said always he is serb and no one questioned him. He also always acted like a serb even with me and my mum etc.

[Mortimer]

I think if a person is 99% European and 1% Roma its hardly visible in the phenotype

This person will look exactly what people from his European ethnicity look like

If you ask me personally i agree with 1/4

I think someone who is half Gypsy and grows up in a Roma community with the Roma tradition is certainly Roma since
he will be accepted also by the Roma themselfes as full Romani i guess in particular if his fathers side is Roma

If you grows up in the Mainstream society with no particular ties to other Roma or Roma traditions the question is more
tricky

I would say if he doesn't identidy with his Roma side in that case he may also be considered not Roma but it will probably show more or less in his phenotype
that he has Roma ancestry in the sense that he will look different from the average people in his country




Ok this is cool

Would you agree that it also has to do with the discrimination one suffers? Like you can be less or more or look less or more even but if you dont suffer discrimination you arent really.

[Tauromachos]

Would you agree that it also has to do with the discrimination one suffers?

Yes absolutely

This is what i meant with case of someone who is half Roma but grows up in mainstream society

He may identify as Non Roma and consider himself as such but on the long term run forced into the Roma modell
by the society.

And here is also how phenotype comes into play

If his Roma side shows alot he may experience more pressure from society which pushes him to become more Roma
when it shows less it may be not that much

[Mortimer]

Yes absolutely

This is what i meant with case of someone who is half Roma but grows up in mainstream society

He may identify as Non Roma and consider himself as such but on the long term run forced into the Roma modell
by the society.

And her is also how phenotype comes into play

If his Roma side shows alot he may experience more pressure from society which pushes him to become more Roma
when it shows less it may be not that much

Totally agree.

[Mortimer]

For Gitano Vero only 1% or even one drop of Roma blood is already a cut off




I wonder if he would treat a half spaniard or spanish gypsy the same as he does me, if its not a stereotypical spanish gypsy like Penelope Cruz is half gitano. I didnt saw him insulting her. He usually likes everything spanish like mexican mestizos but hates balkans and romania.

[JosephK]

Yes absolutely

This is what i meant with case of someone who is half Roma but grows up in mainstream society

He may identify as Non Roma and consider himself as such but on the long term run forced into the Roma modell
by the society.

And here is also how phenotype comes into play

If his Roma side shows alot he may experience more pressure from society which pushes him to become more Roma
when it shows less it may be not that much

It's easy enough for people who are 1/2 Roma and who can pass as non-Roma to blend in to mainstream society, as long as they don't live the "Gypsy lifestyle"...

I think I'm good evidence that by the time one is 1/4 Roma, any phenotypic resemblance can be unnoticeable (although some of my cousins are Indian-looking). Even the Roma genotype can be difficult to discern at that level (only phasing gets me 1/4 Romany results).

The English Gypsies or Romanichal are an interesting case in that they have had a lot of interbreeding with local populations so, genetically, aren't very Roma, but since they live "like Gypsies," carry on the language an traditions, etc, they're still Romany. But by Balkan standards they are all probably "1/4 Roma" or less.

[RenaRyuguu]

There is not cut off when you mix with a Roma you are Roma

[Pine]

I wonder if he would treat a half spaniard or spanish gypsy the same as he does me, if its not a stereotypical spanish gypsy like Penelope Cruz is half gitano. I didnt saw him insulting her. He usually likes everything spanish like mexican mestizos but hates balkans and romania.

She's half gypsy?

[Mortimer]

She's half gypsy?

Yes. Cristiano Gitans Viejo the Gitano told me that.

[Pine]

Yes. Cristiano Gitans Viejo the Gitano told me that.

Sounds like bs.

[Mortimer]

Sounds like bs.

Nah, I googled and found her biography from official sources in spanish and her father is a spanish gitano. It is not BS.

[Pine]

Nah, I googled and found her biography from official sources in spanish and her father is a spanish gitano. It is not BS.

Articles may exist. What are "official sources"? Mortimer, they're all running off rumors.

[Mortimer]

Articles may exist. What are "official sources"? Mortimer, they're all running off rumors.

I doubt it can be rumour, a rumour can be if it is a unknown ancestor from the 15th century but not if it is her father. Her biography in spanish says her father is a spanish gitano. Why would that be not true? Just because she is famous?

[RenaRyuguu]

Yes Penelope Cruz is also part Roma she enchanted all of Hollywood in this movie she is not Spanish

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/43/31/62/43316277b916e012ec1eec26ef125351.jpg

Roma magic is very strong

[Pine]

I doubt it can be rumour, a rumour can be if it is a unknown ancestor from the 15th century but not if it is her father. Her biography in spanish says her father is a spanish gitano. Why would that be not true? Just because she is famous?

Has Cruz ever claimed it or has her father? Running off rumors isn't uncommon for European news sources. No one said that she can't be Roma because she's famous.

Here: https://ethnicelebs.com/penelope-cruz


It is not clear if this Romani ancestry has been verified/documented.

[Mortimer]

Has Cruz ever claimed it or has her father? Running off rumors isn't uncommon for European news sources. No one said that she can't be Roma because she's famous.

Here: https://ethnicelebs.com/penelope-cruz

Spanish sources are full of her being Gitana https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=NQ9BXer9G8f5qwGf06mIAg&q=penelope+cruz+gitano&oq=penelope+cruz+gitano&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.839.4116..4383...1.0..0.131.2270.2j1 9......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i67j0i131j0j0i131i67j0i10j0i70i2 51j0i203.8RNMBgc04uI&ved=0ahUKEwiq7MXSn97jAhXH_CoKHZ9pCiEQ4dUDCAU&uact=5

Probably english sources know less. And many gypsies dont claim they are gypsies or are not public about it. I dont know what she herself says.

[RenaRyuguu]

Exactly I guess Javier likes them in bed

http://media.giphy.com/media/M85V4dSpt9l9m/giphy.gif

[Pine]

Spanish sources are full of her being Gitana https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=NQ9BXer9G8f5qwGf06mIAg&q=penelope+cruz+gitano&oq=penelope+cruz+gitano&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.839.4116..4383...1.0..0.131.2270.2j1 9......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i67j0i131j0j0i131i67j0i10j0i70i2 51j0i203.8RNMBgc04uI&ved=0ahUKEwiq7MXSn97jAhXH_CoKHZ9pCiEQ4dUDCAU&uact=5

Probably english sources know less. And many gypsies dont claim they are gypsies or are not public about it. I dont know what she herself says.

Notice how Spanish wikipedia doesn't claim it, because wikipedia is at least held to some standard. Numerous news articles aren't better than one.

Mortimer, Gypsies can be famous and good looking. Penelope Cruz simply isn't an example of that. She's an example of insecure Spaniards starting a rumor to make sure others don't think of them as non-white.

[Mortimer]

Notice how Spanish wikipedia doesn't claim it, because wikipedia is at least held to some standard. Numerous news articles aren't better than one.

Mortimer, gypsies can be famous and good looking. Penelope Cruz simply isn't an example of that. She's an example of insecure Spaniards starting a rumor to make sure others don't think of them as non-white.

Why do you deny it? I dont like how you claim it is not true as if you know it with certainity. I dont get why you deny it?

[RenaRyuguu]

Why do you deny it? I dont like how you claim it is not true as if you know it with certainity. I dont get why you deny it?

Exactly you as a gypsy know who is a gypsy idk why he denying it he dk cuz he aint one

[El_Abominacion]

100%. I really dislike the whole ‘one drop’ thing

[Smeagol]

1/8 or 1/4 depending on how pure the gypsy ancestor was.

[JosephK]

1/8 or 1/4 depending on how pure the gypsy ancestor was.

Maybe even 1/2, really...

I think it has a lot to do with whether accepts 'the lifestyle'... obviously UK Romanichels have sometimes very little Roma ancestry, but as long as they maintain the traditions and refer to themselves as Gypsies, then they're Roma...

It's easy for Roma, after mixing with Euros, to lose the phenotype, and can easily pass as Romanian and so on if they feel like it...

[Voskos]

Anything above 5% south asian is visible.

[Smeagol]

Anything above 5% south asian is visible.

That's not even the case for black admixture so I doubt it.

[JosephK]

Anything above 5% south asian is visible.

That's sort of true, but whether it's distinctly noticeable to others as "Indian" and not just a slightly dark phenotype, I don't know.

[Voskos]

Paki and north indian admix is the most obvious imho. Southern ASI onge-like is difficult to distinguish since it gives a generic pseudoaustraloid vibe that some europeans already have.