Elite Avar mtDNA samples from Hungary

[Hudayar]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/09/13/415760.full.pdf

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2018/09/13/415760.DC1/415760-1.pdf

Inner Asian maternal genetic origin of the Avar period nomadic elite in the 7th century AD Carpathian Basin (Csáky et al. 2018 preprint)

"After 568 AD the nomadic Avars settled in the Carpathian Basin and founded their empire, which was an important force in Central Europe until the beginning of the 9th century AD. The Avar elite was probably of Inner Asian origin; its identification with the Rourans (who ruled the region of today’s Mongolia and North China in the 4th-6th centuries AD) is widely accepted in the historical research. Here, we study the whole mitochondrial genomes of twenty-three 7th century and two 8th century AD individuals from a well-characterised Avar elite group of burials excavated in Hungary. Most of them were buried with high value prestige artefacts and their skulls showed Mongoloid morphological traits. The majority (64%) of the studied samples’ mitochondrial DNA variability belongs to Asian haplogroups (C, D, F, M, R, Y and Z). This Avar elite group shows affinities to several ancient and modern Inner Asian populations. The genetic results verify the historical thesis on the Inner Asian origin of the Avar elite, as not only a military retinue consisting of armed men, but an endogamous group of families migrated. This correlates well with records on historical nomadic societies where maternal lineages were as important as paternal descent."

Comparisons with ancients:

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26019&d=1537251485

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26020&d=15372515168

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26021&d=1537251555

Comparisons with moderns:

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26022&d=1537251586

https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26023&d=1537251607


taken from: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?15385-Elite-Avar-whole-mtDNA-genomes-from-the-7th-century-AD-Carpathian-Basin

[Pribislav]

What about y dna of Avars? Is there any research?

[Bosniensis]

What about y dna of Avars? Is there any research?

R1a mostly.

Avars, Scythians, East Slavs it's all the same.

[Pribislav]

R1a mostly.

Avars, Scythians, East Slavs it's all the same.

I don't think so for Avars.

Scythians YES.

[Ayetooey]

R1a mostly.

Avars, Scythians, East Slavs it's all the same.

On the island of Hvar 14 percent of the population have P*(xM173) cluster (what that means I don't know) as well as M haplogroup F, both of which are speculated to come from Avars.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10692426_Y_chromosomal_heritage_of_Croatian_Popula iton_and_its_island_isolates

[Ayetooey]

Also according to wiki (lol) 66.7 percent of modern day Avar's (mainly in Dagestan) y dna is J1, 7 percent E1

[Kelmendasi]

I don't think so for Avars.

Scythians YES.
Scythians were mostly R1b-Z2103 carriers, as shown by ancient DNA samples.

[Maintenance]

R1a mostly.

Avars, Scythians, East Slavs it's all the same.

J not R

[Kelmendasi]

Also according to wiki (lol) 66.7 percent of modern day Avar's (mainly in Dagestan) y dna is J1, 7 percent E1
The Avars of Dagestan aren't the same as the possibly Turkic Avars that invaded Pannonia. They have the same name but shouldn't be mixed up as they are two separate people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)

[Ayetooey]

The Avars of Dagestan aren't the same as the possibly Turkic Avars that invaded Pannonia. They have the same name but shouldn't be mixed up as they are two separate people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avars_(Caucasus)

Interesting, seems like there's no proof of any link. The Hvar sample is probably more useful then.

[Pribislav]

Scythians were mostly R1b-Z2103 carriers, as shown by ancient DNA samples.

Wrong, they were pred. R1a-Z93 Aryans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Genetics

R1a = Aryans

R1b = Turko-Mongols

[Kelmendasi]

Wrong, they were pred. R1a-Z93 Aryans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Genetics

R1a = Aryans

R1b = Turko-Mongols
Have you not looked at the recent papers on Scythians? They were mainly R1b-Z2103 carriers, the Sarmatians were mainly R1a not the Scythians. https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/46.665/29.795

[Pribislav]

Have you not looked at the recent papers on Scythians? They were mainly R1b-Z2103 carriers, the Sarmatians were mainly R1a not the Scythians. https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#6/46.665/29.795

According to some Turkish users here Scythians were predominantly some branch of N.

For many Russians Scythians were their ancestors.

For many historians Scytians and Sarmatians were same people, it's like Magyars and Hungarians, or Russians and Sovietians.

There was no any people Scythians, that is a myth.
Scythians were general name of ancient Greeks for varous tribes which lived in eastern Europe and central Asia. Scythians are like today Balkanites or Americans, a lot of various genetic, languages and tribes was hiden under the term "Scythians." From ancient Greek sources we know that 7 separated languages existed in "Scythia" (aka eastern Europe and central Asia).

[Kelmendasi]

According to some Turkish users here Scythians were predominantly some branch of N.

For many Russians Scythians were their ancestors.

For many historians Scytians and Sarmatians were same people, it's like Magyars and Hungarians, or Russians and Sovietians.

There was no any people Scythians, that is a myth.
Scythians were general name of ancient Greeks for varous tribes which lived in eastern Europe and central Asia. Scythians are like today Balkanites or Americans, a lot of various genetic, languages and tribes was hiden under the term "Scythians." From ancient Greek sources we know that 7 separated languages existed in "Scythia" (aka eastern Europe and central Asia).
Opinions are meaningless unless they are backed with evidence. Evidence shows that they were mainly R1b-Z2103. Only one N1b Scythian has been found and that was the Pazyryk sample found in the most eastern parts occupied by Scythians, which going by it's autosomal DNA was most probably assimilated by the Scythians and not originally Scythian. There definitely was a group of people that were Scythian, this is shown through material culture, linguistics and genetics. Though the Scythians did assimilate and absorb many peoples occupying the steppes which is why it's hard to really distinguish what was Scythian.

[Bosniensis]

You two are totally lost

Scythians were not people but a horde led by the strongest warrior

Scythians were Slavs,Germans,Turks and other people from steppe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jana]

Opinions are meaningless unless they are backed with evidence. Evidence shows that they were mainly R1b-Z2103. Only one N1b Scythian has been found and that was the Pazyryk sample found in the most eastern parts occupied by Scythians, which going by it's autosomal DNA was most probably assimilated by the Scythians and not originally Scythian. There definitely was a group of people that were Scythian, this is shown through material culture, linguistics and genetics. Though the Scythians did assimilate and absorb many peoples occupying the steppes which is why it's hard to really distinguish what was Scythian.

There have been no R1a Z93 Schyntian samples ? Wow, had no idea about it. If they are mostly R1b, Polako will cut his veins xD
L23 right ? Does it mean Balkanites and Armenians are offshot of Schyntian R1b ?

[Dick]

Poor polacko. They might be something downstream of L23
There have been no R1a Z93 Schyntian samples ? Wow, had no idea about it. If they are mostly R1b, Polako will cut his veins xD
L23 right ? Does it mean Balkanites and Armenians are offshot of Schyntian R1b ?

[Jana]

Poor polacko. They might be something downstream of L23

Indeed :D

Imagine that, Albos and Greeks more paternally Schyntian than Poles :) Imgine R1aethel reading it. He would flip out.
Still, Sarmatians were R1a. It just makes me suprised they came out more asiatic autosomaly than Schyntians, because older Sarmatian samples were very close genetically to northeastern Europeans.
And they lived more to the west compared to Schyts iirc.

[Kelmendasi]

There have been no R1a Z93 Schyntian samples ? Wow, had no idea about it. If they are mostly R1b, Polako will cut his veins xD
L23 right ? Does it mean Balkanites and Armenians are offshot of Schyntian R1b ?
There has been only 1 R1a-Z93 sample though that one still isn't confirmed as the prediction isn't very accurate. It doesn't mean that Z2103 in the Balkans is from Scythians but it does mean that Z2103 in the Balkans is from the same source as the Z2103 in Scythians, this source was the Yamnaya.

[Karkurdu]

Opinions are meaningless unless they are backed with evidence. Evidence shows that they were mainly R1b-Z2103. Only one N1b Scythian has been found and that was the Pazyryk sample found in the most eastern parts occupied by Scythians, which going by it's autosomal DNA was most probably assimilated by the Scythians and not originally Scythian. There definitely was a group of people that were Scythian, this is shown through material culture, linguistics and genetics. Though the Scythians did assimilate and absorb many peoples occupying the steppes which is why it's hard to really distinguish what was Scythian.

All the Pazyryk samples were around %40-50 East Eurasian, not just the N1b guy.