Arab trying to interpret Jewish and European results

[whoibe]

I've recently received my MyHeritage results (https://imgur.com/a/1ErUWCP).

I am part of the Arab minority in Israel, and to my knowledge, the rest of my family are also Arab, and Muslim. I don't really understand the difference between the different Gedmatch tests that well, so I'll just post a whole bunch of different ones. I'm really interested to see what you think.

MDLP K23b 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.43
2 Near_East 17.80
3 European_Early_Farmers 14.35
4 South_Central_Asian 12.23
5 North_African 8.53
6 South_Indian 2.87
7 East_African 2.84
8 East_Siberian 1.29


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Syrian_Jew_ @ 6.659384
2 Lebanese_ @ 7.773434
3 Lebanese_Muslim_ @ 8.100311
4 Muslim_Arabs_Israel_ @ 9.764081
5 Samaritian_ @ 10.490923
6 Syrian_ @ 11.072806
7 Iraqi_Chaldean_ @ 11.113378
8 Palestinian_ @ 11.247584
9 Turk_Adana_ @ 11.473163
10 Jordanian_ @ 11.594125
11 Assyrian_Iraqi_ @ 11.908371
12 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 12.164774
13 Cypriot_ @ 12.258148
14 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 12.373976
15 Iraki_ @ 12.449074
16 Turk_Jew_ @ 12.576925
17 Iraqi_Mandean_ @ 12.890561
18 Lebanese_Christian_ @ 13.145858
19 Iraqi_Jew_ @ 13.172909
20 Tunisian_Jew_ @ 13.184107

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kurd_Jew_ +50% Libyan_Jew_ @ 4.532774


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot_ +25% Egyptian_Tanta_ +25% Iranian_ @ 3.697257

Eurogenes K13 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 37.17
2 West_Asian 20.76
3 West_Med 15.75
4 Red_Sea 12.88
5 Northeast_African 3.83
6 South_Asian 3.68
7 North_Atlantic 1.94
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Sub-Saharan 1.46
10 Baltic 0.93

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 3.39
2 Lebanese_Muslim 5.29
3 Jordanian 7.35
4 Samaritan 8.37
5 Palestinian 9.05
6 Cyprian 9.19
7 Lebanese_Christian 9.79
8 Bedouin 11.3
9 Kurdish_Jewish 11.49
10 Iranian_Jewish 12
11 Lebanese_Druze 12.45
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.56
13 Tunisian_Jewish 12.66
14 Assyrian 12.89
15 Sephardic_Jewish 15.24
16 Georgian_Jewish 15.53
17 Turkish 15.66
18 Algerian_Jewish 15.73
19 Italian_Jewish 16.99
20 Egyptian 17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.4% Kurdish_Jewish + 29.6% Moroccan @ 2.56
2 96.1% Syrian + 3.9% Sardinian @ 2.87
3 94.8% Syrian + 5.2% Moroccan @ 3.06
4 98.6% Syrian + 1.4% Dai @ 3.07
5 98.4% Syrian + 1.6% Cambodian @ 3.08
6 98.5% Syrian + 1.5% Vietnamese @ 3.08
7 98.5% Syrian + 1.5% Lahu @ 3.09
8 98.4% Syrian + 1.6% Malay @ 3.09
9 98.6% Syrian + 1.4% She @ 3.1
10 98.6% Syrian + 1.4% Miaozu @ 3.1
11 98.6% Syrian + 1.4% Tujia @ 3.1
12 98.2% Syrian + 1.8% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 3.11
13 98.5% Syrian + 1.5% Yizu @ 3.14
14 98.5% Syrian + 1.5% Naxi @ 3.14
15 95.5% Syrian + 4.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.15
16 92.6% Syrian + 7.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.15
17 98.6% Syrian + 1.4% Japanese @ 3.17
18 98.5% Syrian + 1.5% Tu @ 3.17
19 95.3% Syrian + 4.7% Tunisian @ 3.18
20 88.1% Syrian + 11.9% Cyprian @ 3.18



Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 37.17
2 West_Asian 20.76
3 West_Med 15.75
4 Red_Sea 12.88
5 Northeast_African 3.83
6 South_Asian 3.68
7 North_Atlantic 1.95
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Sub-Saharan 1.46


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Syrian @ 3.599342
2 Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.804161
3 Jordanian @ 7.933835
4 Samaritan @ 9.539104
5 Cyprian @ 9.920276
6 Palestinian @ 10.236712
7 Lebanese_Christian @ 11.108497
8 Bedouin @ 12.250223
9 Kurdish_Jewish @ 12.908946
10 Iranian_Jewish @ 13.423899
11 Lebanese_Druze @ 14.075435
12 Libyan_Jewish @ 14.364171
13 Assyrian @ 14.434152
14 Tunisian_Jewish @ 14.519131
15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 17.320784
16 Turkish @ 17.452847
17 Georgian_Jewish @ 17.580265
18 Algerian_Jewish @ 17.853868
19 Egyptian @ 18.096497
20 Italian_Jewish @ 19.269295

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Syrian +50% Syrian @ 3.599342


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kurdish_Jewish +25% Moroccan +25% Syrian @ 2.737257


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Georgian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.475870
2 Georgian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.586026
3 Assyrian + Iranian_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.663227
4 Assyrian + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.692262
5 Iranian + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.724387
6 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Syrian @ 2.737257
7 Georgian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.809510
8 Assyrian + Assyrian + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.833431
9 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + Moroccan @ 2.884545
10 Assyrian + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Syrian @ 2.886224
11 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Syrian @ 2.890807
12 Georgian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.891293
13 Assyrian + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.900908
14 Assyrian + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.916861
15 Iranian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.921981
16 Kurdish + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.926814
17 Kurdish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 3.002359
18 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + Moroccan @ 3.019059
19 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 3.020729
20 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 3.032532

Dodecad V3 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 31.21
2 Mediterranean 27.97
3 Southwest_Asian 20.23
4 West_European 4.16
5 East_African 4.01
6 South_Asian 3.98
7 Northwest_African 3.82
8 Neo_African 1.42
9 East_European 1.2
10 Southeast_Asian 1.12
11 Palaeo_African 0.6
12 Northeast_Asian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese (Behar) 5.49
2 Palestinian (HGDP) 5.75
3 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 8.14
4 Jordanians_19 (Behar) 8.96
5 Samaritians (Behar) 9.03
6 Syrians (Behar) 9.52
7 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 9.62
8 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 9.82
9 Druze (HGDP) 10.18
10 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 10.25
11 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 12.04
12 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 14.14
13 Kurd (Xing) 14.15
14 Egypt (Henn) 14.95
15 Turkish (Dodecad) 15.6
16 Kurd (Dodecad) 15.98
17 Cypriots (Behar) 16.08
18 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 17.75
19 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 17.9
20 Assyrian (Dodecad) 18.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.6% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 44.4% Egypt (Henn) @ 2.78
2 61.7% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 38.3% Egypt (Henn) @ 3.2
3 66.4% Palestinian (HGDP) + 33.6% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 3.35
4 76.6% Palestinian (HGDP) + 23.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 3.38
5 73.3% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 26.7% Libya (Henn) @ 3.41
6 66.4% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 33.6% Egypt (Henn) @ 3.47
7 61.3% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 38.7% Egypt (Henn) @ 3.52
8 68.2% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 31.8% Libya (Henn) @ 3.6
9 75.7% Palestinian (HGDP) + 24.3% Kurd (Xing) @ 3.72
10 78.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 21.8% Algeria (Henn) @ 3.73
11 78.2% Palestinian (HGDP) + 21.8% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 3.79
12 91.3% Lebanese (Behar) + 8.7% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.79
13 77% Iraq_Jews (Behar) + 23% Algeria (Henn) @ 3.79
14 81.1% Palestinian (HGDP) + 18.9% Turks (Behar) @ 3.85
15 90.7% Palestinian (HGDP) + 9.3% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.85
16 92.2% Lebanese (Behar) + 7.8% Burusho (HGDP) @ 3.85
17 60.3% Iraq_Jews (Behar) + 39.7% Egypt (Henn) @ 3.87
18 79.4% Iranian_Jews (Behar) + 20.6% Morocco_N (Henn) @ 3.91
19 92.4% Lebanese (Behar) + 7.6% Pakistani (Xing) @ 3.92
20 93.5% Lebanese (Behar) + 6.5% Vaish (Reich) @ 3.92


Dodecad V3 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 31.21
2 Mediterranean 27.97
3 Southwest_Asian 20.23
4 West_European 4.16
5 East_African 4.01
6 South_Asian 3.98
7 Northwest_African 3.82
8 Neo_African 1.42
9 East_European 1.20
10 Southeast_Asian 1.12


Finished reading population data. 227 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Lebanese_Behar @ 6.051296
2 Palestinian_HGDP @ 6.190341
3 Georgia_Jews_Behar @ 9.075993
4 Jordanians_19_Behar @ 9.893501
5 Samaritians_Behar @ 9.907512
6 Syrians_Behar @ 10.520269
7 Iranian_Jews_Behar @ 10.782315
8 Uzbekistan_Jews_Behar @ 10.865858
9 Druze_HGDP @ 11.437856
10 Iraq_Jews_Behar @ 11.507357
11 Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar @ 13.577746
12 Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 15.754265
13 Kurd_Xing @ 15.762714
14 Egypt_Henn @ 16.241209
15 Turkish_Dodecad @ 17.293442
16 Cypriots_Behar @ 17.627031
17 Kurd_Dodecad @ 17.769371
18 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 19.603155
19 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 19.905909
20 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 20.693220

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azerbaijan_Jews_Behar +50% Egypt_Henn @ 3.160144


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian_Jews_Behar +25% Morocco_Jews_Behar +25% Egypt_Henn @ 1.779255


puntDNAL K15 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 31.56
2 Caucasian 30.3
3 SW_Asian 17.02
4 Horn_Of_Africa 7.03
5 NE_European 6.62
6 S_Indian 2.97
7 Wht_Nile_River 1.3
8 E_Asian 0.98
9 W_African 0.95
10 Siberian 0.74
11 Omo_River 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Palestinian 3.58
2 Lebanese 4.2
3 Iraqi_Jew 6.34
4 Jordanian 7.19
5 Syrian 7.21
6 Samaritian 8.75
7 Druze 9.66
8 Cypriot 11.62
9 Assyrian 14.12
10 Turk_Kayseri 14.23
11 Egyptian 15.29
12 Sephardic_Jew 15.68
13 Kurdish 16.63
14 Libyan 17.04
15 Azerbaijani 17.76
16 Armenian 17.84
17 Ashkenazy_Jew 18.06
18 Sicilian 18.37
19 Bedouin_A 18.73
20 Yemenite_Jew 18.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.3% Lebanese + 8.7% Sardinian @ 1.8
2 72.1% Iraqi_Jew + 27.9% Sephardic_Jew @ 1.96
3 91.8% Palestinian + 8.2% Italian @ 2.03
4 90.2% Palestinian + 9.8% Albanian @ 2.03
5 89.9% Palestinian + 10.1% Tuscan @ 2.05
6 86% Palestinian + 14% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.08
7 92.4% Palestinian + 7.6% Romanian @ 2.08
8 92.2% Palestinian + 7.8% Bulgarian @ 2.08
9 93.3% Palestinian + 6.7% Spaniard @ 2.08
10 94% Palestinian + 6% French @ 2.09
11 92% Palestinian + 8% Montenegrin @ 2.09
12 94.1% Palestinian + 5.9% Basque @ 2.1
13 89.4% Palestinian + 10.6% Greek_Central @ 2.1
14 90.1% Palestinian + 9.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.1
15 93% Palestinian + 7% Portuguese @ 2.11
16 92.6% Palestinian + 7.4% Macedonian @ 2.12
17 57.1% Turk_Kayseri + 42.9% Yemenite_Jew @ 2.15
18 94.3% Palestinian + 5.7% South_German @ 2.16
19 94.4% Palestinian + 5.6% Utahn_White @ 2.17
20 75.4% Iraqi_Jew + 24.6% Sicilian @ 2.18

[Sp_loa]

Hello mate.
The first thing you need to understand is that there is strong misconception in Israel.
When Jews say "I'm polish" or "I'm Iraqi" or "I'm Moroccan" they are extremely different from gentile Poles, Iraqis or Moroccans.
Although many try to deny, most/ a lot of the Jewish DNA comes actually from Israel (ancient Judea) and most Jewish groups are descendants of the biblical Israelites, and that's why you see some proximity to many Jewish groups in your oracle and in myheritage. You are not really 16% Mizrahi Jewish like myheritage says, it's just that Mizrahi Jews (and Jews in general) are somewhat similar to palestinians- common Middle eastern Ancestry.

2. Your gedmatch results supports what you know about yourself- you are Arab Israeli/Palestinian, Levantine. Very similar to other levantines like Syrians, Lebanese, Mizrahi Jews and similar groups. It seems like you might have recent Caucasus Ancestry (Gedmatch) or recent North African (myheritage) but it might be just noise.
Overall pretty typical palestinian.

[Sp_loa]

The modules of Gedmatch are just guesses - for example someone that is 50% Kurdish Jew and 50% Egyptian Jew will be genetically similar to you. the @number means how good is the guess. Smaller number- Better guess.
But again just guesses, and some calculators aren't good.
Can you post Harrpapa world oracle?

[rein]

Arab Jews and Mizrahi are very similar genetically to their neighbouring Arab & Middle Eastern people.

[Levant15]

Ahleen!

Ignore the Jewish categories. They overlap with Levantines because they're same or similar.
Most importantly, ignore Puntdnal K15. Everyone is a Palestinian in that calculator.

What city are you from?

Can you run MDLP K16?

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

Thanks to all who have replied!


Hello mate.
The first thing you need to understand is that there is strong misconception in Israel.
When Jews say "I'm polish" or "I'm Iraqi" or "I'm Moroccan" they are extremely different from gentile Poles, Iraqis or Moroccans.
Although many try to deny, most/ a lot of the Jewish DNA comes actually from Israel (ancient Judea) and most Jewish groups are descendants of the biblical Israelites, and that's why you see some proximity to many Jewish groups in your oracle and in myheritage. You are not really 16% Mizrahi Jewish like myheritage says, it's just that Mizrahi Jews (and Jews in general) are somewhat similar to palestinians- common Middle eastern Ancestry.

2. Your gedmatch results supports what you know about yourself- you are Arab Israeli/Palestinian, Levantine. Very similar to other levantines like Syrians, Lebanese, Mizrahi Jews and similar groups. It seems like you might have recent Caucasus Ancestry (Gedmatch) or recent North African (myheritage) but it might be just noise.
Overall pretty typical palestinian.

Another person from my town, which is pretty small with less than 30 thousand inhabitants, is from a different, but related family. That person got 59% middle eastern on myheritage and no Mizrahi Jewish. My one-to-many comparison also includes some obvious Jewish matches, although all admittedly only between 9 and 15 cM, which I guess is a negligible result.


The modules of Gedmatch are just guesses - for example someone that is 50% Kurdish Jew and 50% Egyptian Jew will be genetically similar to you. the @number means how good is the guess. Smaller number- Better guess.
But again just guesses, and some calculators aren't good.
Can you post Harrpapa world oracle?

HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.46
2 SW-Asian 23.76
3 Mediterranean 15.00
4 Baloch 12.50
5 E-African 3.79
6 NE-Euro 2.82
7 S-Indian 1.51
8 NE-Asian 1.46
9 W-African 1.18


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 lebanese_behar @ 4.949869
2 palestinian_harappa @ 6.152162
3 syrian_behar @ 6.589531
4 jordanian_behar @ 7.002581
5 lebanese-muslim_haber @ 9.917738
6 palestinian_hgdp @ 9.980198
7 iraqi-arab_harappa @ 10.088325
8 lebanese-christian_haber @ 13.293765
9 lebanese-druze_haber @ 14.214553
10 iraq-jew_behar @ 14.691781
11 sephardic-jew_behar @ 15.097835
12 cypriot_behar @ 15.390068
13 armenian_harappa @ 15.393951
14 samaritian_behar @ 15.623613
15 uzbekistan-jew_behar @ 15.632709
16 iraqi-mandaean_harappa @ 15.968259
17 morocco-jew_behar @ 16.341312
18 iranian-jew_behar @ 16.703827
19 turkish_harappa @ 17.256605
20 georgia-jew_behar @ 17.638069

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian_harappa +50% egypt_henn2012 @ 3.886566


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% georgian_harappa +25% saudi_behar +25% tunisia_henn2012 @ 2.266400


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
1 iraqi-arab_harappa + jordanian_behar + morocco-jew_behar + palestinian_harappa @ 1.571342
2 egypt_henn2012 + iraqi-arab_harappa + iraqi-mandaean_harappa + sephardic-jew_behar @ 1.579387
3 egypt_henn2012 + iranian-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.608190
4 assyrian_harappa + egypt_henn2012 + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.641061
5 egypt_henn2012 + iraqi-arab_harappa + iraqi-mandaean_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.734261
6 egypt_henn2012 + iranian-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + sephardic-jew_behar @ 1.750565
7 egypt_henn2012 + iraq-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + sephardic-jew_behar @ 1.878032
8 iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar + palestinian_harappa + palestinian_hgdp @ 1.910001
9 iraqi-arab_harappa + jordanian_behar + lebanese_behar + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.962562
10 iraqi-arab_harappa + jordanian_behar + morocco-jew_behar + syrian_behar @ 1.990042
11 iranian_behar + jordanian_behar + morocco-jew_behar + palestinian_hgdp @ 1.991225
12 georgian_behar + iranian_behar + morocco-n_henn2012 + yemen-jew_behar @ 2.004615
13 assyrian_harappa + cypriot_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + libya_henn2012 @ 2.006987
14 assyrian_harappa + egyptian_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.020956
15 georgian_behar + iranian_harappa + morocco-n_henn2012 + yemen-jew_behar @ 2.030185
16 cypriot_behar + iraq-jew_behar + kurd_harappa + libya_henn2012 @ 2.038146
17 egyptian_behar + iranian-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.060560
18 egyptian_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + iraqi-mandaean_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.065617
19 georgian_behar + kurd_harappa + morocco-n_henn2012 + yemen-jew_behar @ 2.073383
20 egypt_henn2012 + iraq-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.075274



Ahleen!

Ignore the Jewish categories. They overlap with Levantines because they're same or similar.
Most importantly, ignore Puntdnal K15. Everyone is a Palestinian in that calculator.

What city are you from?

Can you run MDLP K16?

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

I'm from a town in the Galilee

MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.13
2 Neolithic 16.09
3 NearEast 11.95
4 Steppe 7.91
5 NorthAfrican 6.05
6 Indian 4.98
7 EastAfrican 3.00
8 NorthEastEuropean 1.63
9 SouthEastAsian 1.33


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon @ 2.949764
2 Jew_Syria @ 3.830745
3 Lebanese_Christian_Lebanon @ 3.912414
4 Arab_Israel_Iqrit @ 4.905327
5 Jordanian_Jordanian @ 5.587476
6 Syrian_Syria @ 6.530841
7 Samaritan_Israel @ 6.895977
8 Lebanese_Lebanon @ 7.153776
9 Arab_Israel_Shefa_Amr @ 7.480953
10 Assyrian_Iran @ 7.862566
11 Jew_Georgia @ 8.624415
12 Jew_Azerbaijan @ 8.888544
13 Palestinian_Israel @ 9.124882
14 Turk_Adana @ 9.167539
15 Jew_Kurdish @ 9.238638
16 Cypriot_Cyprus @ 9.437604
17 Armenian_Gavar @ 9.685884
18 Assyrian_Armavir @ 9.711676
19 Assyrian_Iraq @ 9.721225
20 Jew_Turkish_Sephardim @ 10.022146

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon +50% Jew_Syria @ 2.589824


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_Yerevan +25% Egyptian_Mansoura_Cairo +25% Jew_Turkey @ 1.457804


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
1 Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.252607
2 Armenian_Martuni + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.275203
3 Assyrian_Armenia + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.354931
4 Jew_Algeria + Georgian_Abkhazia_Abkhazia + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian @ 1.361853
5 Armenian_Erzrum + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Turkey @ 1.371712
6 Armenian_Gavar + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.374179
7 Assyrian_Turkey + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.386058
8 Armenian_Martuni + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.398772
9 Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.403512
10 Armenian_Chambarak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.414219
11 Armenian_Yegvard + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.419844
12 Armenian_Dprabak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.424112
13 Armenian_Chambarak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.427373
14 Jew_Algeria + Armenian_Erzrum + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian @ 1.447348
15 Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Turkey @ 1.450074
16 Georgian_Abkhazia_Abkhazia + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.455199
17 Jew_Algeria + Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian @ 1.457200
18 Armenian_Yerevan + Armenian_Yerevan + Egyptian_Mansoura_Cairo + Jew_Turkey @ 1.457804
19 Armenian_Erzrum + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.467275
20 Armenian_Dprabak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.469914

[StonyArabia]

Your result shows that Israeli Arabs/Palestinians are basically very Levantine to the area and probably resemble the original "Jews" to extent. The European results might be from the brutal Crusades.

[rein]

Your result shows that Israeli Arabs/Palestinians are basically very Levantine to the area and probably resemble the original "Jews" to extent. The European results might be from the brutal Crusades.

Which Crusade was the most brutal?

[StonyArabia]

Which Crusade was the most brutal?

All of them were barbaric and savage

[waam]

I bet his European is due to shared ancestry with other Mediterranean peoples and not related to crusaders (most Middle Easterners score either Greek or Italian on MyHeritage).

[Levant15]

I bet his European is due to shared ancestry with other Mediterranean peoples and not related to crusaders (most Middle Easterners score either Greek or Italian on MyHeritage).I agree. His European is only south European not Western European. I think it came through Lebanese or Syrian ancestry.
Gedmatch shows him shifted towards northern Levant.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

[Sp_loa]

Thanks to all who have replied!



Another person from my town, which is pretty small with less than 30 thousand inhabitants, is from a different, but related family. That person got 59% middle eastern on myheritage and no Mizrahi Jewish. My one-to-many comparison also includes some obvious Jewish matches, although all admittedly only between 9 and 15 cM, which I guess is a negligible result.



HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.46
2 SW-Asian 23.76
3 Mediterranean 15.00
4 Baloch 12.50
5 E-African 3.79
6 NE-Euro 2.82
7 S-Indian 1.51
8 NE-Asian 1.46
9 W-African 1.18


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 lebanese_behar @ 4.949869
2 palestinian_harappa @ 6.152162
3 syrian_behar @ 6.589531
4 jordanian_behar @ 7.002581
5 lebanese-muslim_haber @ 9.917738
6 palestinian_hgdp @ 9.980198
7 iraqi-arab_harappa @ 10.088325
8 lebanese-christian_haber @ 13.293765
9 lebanese-druze_haber @ 14.214553
10 iraq-jew_behar @ 14.691781
11 sephardic-jew_behar @ 15.097835
12 cypriot_behar @ 15.390068
13 armenian_harappa @ 15.393951
14 samaritian_behar @ 15.623613
15 uzbekistan-jew_behar @ 15.632709
16 iraqi-mandaean_harappa @ 15.968259
17 morocco-jew_behar @ 16.341312
18 iranian-jew_behar @ 16.703827
19 turkish_harappa @ 17.256605
20 georgia-jew_behar @ 17.638069

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% armenian_harappa +50% egypt_henn2012 @ 3.886566


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% georgian_harappa +25% saudi_behar +25% tunisia_henn2012 @ 2.266400


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
1 iraqi-arab_harappa + jordanian_behar + morocco-jew_behar + palestinian_harappa @ 1.571342
2 egypt_henn2012 + iraqi-arab_harappa + iraqi-mandaean_harappa + sephardic-jew_behar @ 1.579387
3 egypt_henn2012 + iranian-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.608190
4 assyrian_harappa + egypt_henn2012 + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.641061
5 egypt_henn2012 + iraqi-arab_harappa + iraqi-mandaean_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.734261
6 egypt_henn2012 + iranian-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + sephardic-jew_behar @ 1.750565
7 egypt_henn2012 + iraq-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + sephardic-jew_behar @ 1.878032
8 iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar + palestinian_harappa + palestinian_hgdp @ 1.910001
9 iraqi-arab_harappa + jordanian_behar + lebanese_behar + morocco-jew_behar @ 1.962562
10 iraqi-arab_harappa + jordanian_behar + morocco-jew_behar + syrian_behar @ 1.990042
11 iranian_behar + jordanian_behar + morocco-jew_behar + palestinian_hgdp @ 1.991225
12 georgian_behar + iranian_behar + morocco-n_henn2012 + yemen-jew_behar @ 2.004615
13 assyrian_harappa + cypriot_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + libya_henn2012 @ 2.006987
14 assyrian_harappa + egyptian_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.020956
15 georgian_behar + iranian_harappa + morocco-n_henn2012 + yemen-jew_behar @ 2.030185
16 cypriot_behar + iraq-jew_behar + kurd_harappa + libya_henn2012 @ 2.038146
17 egyptian_behar + iranian-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.060560
18 egyptian_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + iraqi-mandaean_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.065617
19 georgian_behar + kurd_harappa + morocco-n_henn2012 + yemen-jew_behar @ 2.073383
20 egypt_henn2012 + iraq-jew_behar + iraqi-arab_harappa + morocco-jew_behar @ 2.075274




I'm from a town in the Galilee

MDLP K16 2xOracle and OracleX4
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 45.13
2 Neolithic 16.09
3 NearEast 11.95
4 Steppe 7.91
5 NorthAfrican 6.05
6 Indian 4.98
7 EastAfrican 3.00
8 NorthEastEuropean 1.63
9 SouthEastAsian 1.33


Finished reading population data. 517 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon @ 2.949764
2 Jew_Syria @ 3.830745
3 Lebanese_Christian_Lebanon @ 3.912414
4 Arab_Israel_Iqrit @ 4.905327
5 Jordanian_Jordanian @ 5.587476
6 Syrian_Syria @ 6.530841
7 Samaritan_Israel @ 6.895977
8 Lebanese_Lebanon @ 7.153776
9 Arab_Israel_Shefa_Amr @ 7.480953
10 Assyrian_Iran @ 7.862566
11 Jew_Georgia @ 8.624415
12 Jew_Azerbaijan @ 8.888544
13 Palestinian_Israel @ 9.124882
14 Turk_Adana @ 9.167539
15 Jew_Kurdish @ 9.238638
16 Cypriot_Cyprus @ 9.437604
17 Armenian_Gavar @ 9.685884
18 Assyrian_Armavir @ 9.711676
19 Assyrian_Iraq @ 9.721225
20 Jew_Turkish_Sephardim @ 10.022146

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon +50% Jew_Syria @ 2.589824


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_Yerevan +25% Egyptian_Mansoura_Cairo +25% Jew_Turkey @ 1.457804


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
1 Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.252607
2 Armenian_Martuni + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.275203
3 Assyrian_Armenia + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.354931
4 Jew_Algeria + Georgian_Abkhazia_Abkhazia + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian @ 1.361853
5 Armenian_Erzrum + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Turkey @ 1.371712
6 Armenian_Gavar + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.374179
7 Assyrian_Turkey + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.386058
8 Armenian_Martuni + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.398772
9 Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.403512
10 Armenian_Chambarak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.414219
11 Armenian_Yegvard + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.419844
12 Armenian_Dprabak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.424112
13 Armenian_Chambarak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon + Jew_Morocco @ 1.427373
14 Jew_Algeria + Armenian_Erzrum + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian @ 1.447348
15 Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Turkey @ 1.450074
16 Georgian_Abkhazia_Abkhazia + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.455199
17 Jew_Algeria + Armenian_Yerevan + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian @ 1.457200
18 Armenian_Yerevan + Armenian_Yerevan + Egyptian_Mansoura_Cairo + Jew_Turkey @ 1.457804
19 Armenian_Erzrum + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.467275
20 Armenian_Dprabak + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jordanian_Jordanian + Jew_Morocco @ 1.469914

Many palestinians have Jewish matches due to the face that many palestinians are descendants of Jews and Samaritans that were forcibly converted to Islam in the middle ages.
Can you post Harappa Single oracle (with the x%+y%)

[whoibe]

Many palestinians have Jewish matches due to the face that many palestinians are descendants of Jews and Samaritans that were forcibly converted to Islam in the middle ages.
Can you post Harappa Single oracle (with the x%+y%)

I suppose so.

I hope this is what you meant:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.46
2 SW-Asian 23.76
3 Mediterranean 15
4 Baloch 12.5
5 E-African 3.79
6 NE-Euro 2.82
7 S-Indian 1.51
8 NE-Asian 1.46
9 W-African 1.18
10 SE-Asian 0.29
11 Siberian 0.16
12 Pygmy 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lebanese (behar) 4.5
2 palestinian (harappa) 5.69
3 syrian (behar) 6.11
4 jordanian (behar) 6.51
5 lebanese-muslim (haber) 9.06
6 palestinian (hgdp) 9.22
7 iraqi-arab (harappa) 9.37
8 lebanese-christian (haber) 11.99
9 lebanese-druze (haber) 12.85
10 iraq-jew (behar) 13.34
11 cypriot (behar) 13.97
12 sephardic-jew (behar) 14
13 armenian (harappa) 14.15
14 samaritian (behar) 14.19
15 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 14.33
16 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 14.56
17 morocco-jew (behar) 15.13
18 iranian-jew (behar) 15.18
19 georgia-jew (behar) 15.95
20 turkish (harappa) 15.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.8% palestinian (harappa) + 26.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.03
2 90.5% palestinian (harappa) + 9.5% sardinian (hgdp) @ 2.11
3 90.9% palestinian (harappa) + 9.1% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.62
4 73.3% palestinian (harappa) + 26.7% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.72
5 90.3% syrian (behar) + 9.7% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.81
6 90.2% palestinian (harappa) + 9.8% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.81
7 93% lebanese (behar) + 7% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.9
8 93.6% lebanese (behar) + 6.4% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.91
9 90.3% syrian (behar) + 9.7% sardinian (hgdp) @ 2.92
10 92.4% lebanese (behar) + 7.6% algeria (henn2012) @ 2.93
11 92.8% palestinian (harappa) + 7.2% basque (hgdp) @ 2.97
12 93.1% lebanese (behar) + 6.9% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.02
13 92.7% palestinian (harappa) + 7.3% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.03
14 93.1% lebanese (behar) + 6.9% mozabite (hgdp) @ 3.04
15 89.7% syrian (behar) + 10.3% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 3.13
16 91.2% palestinian (harappa) + 8.8% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.16
17 92.8% lebanese (behar) + 7.2% moroccan (behar) @ 3.17
18 74.3% georgia-jew (behar) + 25.7% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.17
19 73.9% syrian (behar) + 26.1% morocco-jew (behar) @ 3.19
20 66.3% assyrian (harappa) + 33.7% libya (henn2012) @ 3.2

[Sp_loa]

I suppose so.

I hope this is what you meant:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.46
2 SW-Asian 23.76
3 Mediterranean 15
4 Baloch 12.5
5 E-African 3.79
6 NE-Euro 2.82
7 S-Indian 1.51
8 NE-Asian 1.46
9 W-African 1.18
10 SE-Asian 0.29
11 Siberian 0.16
12 Pygmy 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lebanese (behar) 4.5
2 palestinian (harappa) 5.69
3 syrian (behar) 6.11
4 jordanian (behar) 6.51
5 lebanese-muslim (haber) 9.06
6 palestinian (hgdp) 9.22
7 iraqi-arab (harappa) 9.37
8 lebanese-christian (haber) 11.99
9 lebanese-druze (haber) 12.85
10 iraq-jew (behar) 13.34
11 cypriot (behar) 13.97
12 sephardic-jew (behar) 14
13 armenian (harappa) 14.15
14 samaritian (behar) 14.19
15 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 14.33
16 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 14.56
17 morocco-jew (behar) 15.13
18 iranian-jew (behar) 15.18
19 georgia-jew (behar) 15.95
20 turkish (harappa) 15.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.8% palestinian (harappa) + 26.2% morocco-jew (behar) @ 2.03
2 90.5% palestinian (harappa) + 9.5% sardinian (hgdp) @ 2.11
3 90.9% palestinian (harappa) + 9.1% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.62
4 73.3% palestinian (harappa) + 26.7% sephardic-jew (behar) @ 2.72
5 90.3% syrian (behar) + 9.7% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.81
6 90.2% palestinian (harappa) + 9.8% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.81
7 93% lebanese (behar) + 7% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 2.9
8 93.6% lebanese (behar) + 6.4% tunisia (henn2012) @ 2.91
9 90.3% syrian (behar) + 9.7% sardinian (hgdp) @ 2.92
10 92.4% lebanese (behar) + 7.6% algeria (henn2012) @ 2.93
11 92.8% palestinian (harappa) + 7.2% basque (hgdp) @ 2.97
12 93.1% lebanese (behar) + 6.9% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.02
13 92.7% palestinian (harappa) + 7.3% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 3.03
14 93.1% lebanese (behar) + 6.9% mozabite (hgdp) @ 3.04
15 89.7% syrian (behar) + 10.3% morocco-n (henn2012) @ 3.13
16 91.2% palestinian (harappa) + 8.8% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 3.16
17 92.8% lebanese (behar) + 7.2% moroccan (behar) @ 3.17
18 74.3% georgia-jew (behar) + 25.7% saharawi (henn2012) @ 3.17
19 73.9% syrian (behar) + 26.1% morocco-jew (behar) @ 3.19
20 66.3% assyrian (harappa) + 33.7% libya (henn2012) @ 3.2


You seem to be mostly Levantine with minor Southern European and North African.

[whoibe]

What I'm wondering now is if Palestinians are so genetically similar to Mizrahis, how does one distinguish 'real' from 'not so real' mizrahi jewish results?

[Sp_loa]

What I'm wondering now is if Palestinians are so genetically similar to Mizrahis, how does one distinguish 'real' from 'not so real' mizrahi jewish results?

Not always easy. Differ per case.

[whoibe]

Not always easy. Differ per case.

How should I go about doing that in my case?

[Sp_loa]

How should I go about doing that in my case?

IDK. Unlikely you have recent Jewish heritage. You probably just share with the Jews common Israelite Ancestry. Jews and Levantine Arabs are indeed cousins/siblings.

[Anglojew]

Palestinians are Arabised Hebrews

[Aren]

You seem to have a Iranic shift tbh. But at the same time you also score more Anatolian farmer/West Med than most Palestinian Muslims which obviously would not be due to Iranic input.

[Skjaldemjøden]

IDK. Unlikely you have recent Jewish heritage.

There were ancient Jewish peasant communities in Shfar'am and Peki'in and a sizable community in Safed. He could easily descend from a convert. Conversion wasn't common, but it did happen. The Montefiore censuses even list a few converts to Judaism, as surprising as that may seem.

[happycow]

Interesting results thanks for sharing. A bit different than mine.

[Babak]

A bit iranic shifted

[rein]

Interesting results thanks for sharing. A bit different than mine.

You have a bit of German in the oracles if I’m not mistaken.

[happycow]

You have a bit of German in the oracles if I’m not mistaken.

Yeah I seem to be quite Euro shifted even more so on my V3 results. My European relatives come up as 4th or 5th cousins so I have my doubts about crusader input but who knows for sure.

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.5% Palestinian + 6.5% Irish @ 3.71
2 93.5% Palestinian + 6.5% West_Scottish @ 3.72
3 93.4% Palestinian + 6.6% Southwest_English @ 3.72
4 85% Palestinian + 15% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.74
5 93.5% Palestinian + 6.5% Orcadian @ 3.76
6 92.1% Palestinian + 7.9% French @ 3.77
7 92.6% Palestinian + 7.4% South_Dutch @ 3.78
8 91% Palestinian + 9% Tadjik @ 3.8
9 92.5% Palestinian + 7.5% West_German @ 3.8
10 93.3% Palestinian + 6.7% Southeast_English @ 3.81
11 93.7% Palestinian + 6.3% French_Basque @ 3.81
12 93.5% Palestinian + 6.5% North_Dutch @ 3.82
13 93.5% Palestinian + 6.5% Danish @ 3.83
14 93.3% Palestinian + 6.7% North_German @ 3.84
15 91.4% Palestinian + 8.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.84
16 92% Palestinian + 8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.84
17 93.8% Palestinian + 6.2% Norwegian @ 3.85
18 91.8% Palestinian + 8.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.86
19 92.4% Palestinian + 7.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.88
20 91.8% Palestinian + 8.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.88

[Skjaldemjøden]

Yeah I seem to be quite Euro shifted even more so on my V3 results. My European relatives come up as 4th or 5th cousins so I have my doubts about crusader input but who knows for sure.

Bosnian? Or just recent Christian ancestry?

[happycow]

Bosnian? Or just recent Christian ancestry?

There are Bosnian Palestinians with the surname Bushnack, Bushnaq or Boshnak and I have I have a Boshnak distant relative. My dads side of the family was also rumored to have been christian before converting to Islam.

[Levant15]

There were ancient Jewish peasant communities in Shfar'am and Peki'in and a sizable community in Safed. He could easily descend from a convert. Conversion wasn't common, but it did happen. The Montefiore censuses even list a few converts to Judaism, as surprising as that may seem.I emailed one of my Jewish matches and he said their family immigrated back from Europe to the region in the 15th century and they did mix with the locals.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

[happycow]

I emailed one of my Jewish matches and he said their family immigrated back from Europe to the region in the 15th century and they did mix with the locals.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

That's very interesting. I thought about emailing one of my Jewish matches.

[Skjaldemjøden]

My dads side of the family was also rumored to have been christian before converting to Islam.

I've heard these rumors a couple of times before. Why do so many Muslims conceal their non-Muslim ancestry?

[Sacrificed Ram]

Typical levantine.

[happycow]

I've heard these rumors a couple of times before. Why do so many Muslims conceal their non-Muslim ancestry?

They likely feel shame. Arab muslims are very prideful people and image is very important to them. How they look amongst their fellow muslims is probably one of the most important things in their lives. Lol.

[Anglojew]

Palestinians are Israelites you've been Islamosed & Arabised & brainwashed into "Stockholm Syndrome" identifying with your Arab conquerors. You need to return to the Jewish fold & unite with us

[Skjaldemjøden]

They likely feel shame. Arab muslims are very prideful people and image is very important to them. How they look amongst their fellow muslims is probably one of the most important things in their lives. Lol.

I know a few clans claim to trace their ancestry back to Muhammad's messengers, but I highly doubt most Pals have such illustrious forefathers. So wouldn't descending from someone who "saw the light" of Islam be considered more noble than being, say, the offspring of illiterate fallahs?

[Sacrificed Ram]

Palestinians are Israelites you've been Islamosed & Arabised & brainwashed into "Stockholm Syndrome" identifying with your Arab conquerors. You need to return to the Jewish fold & unite with us

And hebrews are canaanites you've israelized & judaized & brainwashed into "Stockholm Syndrome" identifying with your chaldean conquerors. You need to return to iraq & unite with them.

[happycow]

I know a few clans claim to trace their ancestry back to Muhammad's messengers, but I highly doubt most Pals have such illustrious forefathers. So wouldn't descending from someone who "saw the light" of Islam be considered more noble than being, say, the offspring of illiterate fallahs?

Well I like to say that many Palestinians with a strong arab identity latch onto that identity to feel like they accomplished something. We are only a people who have been conquered over and over. lol

[Nazarene]

Respect to my levantine niggas

[Haider]

I think you're a troll, because no Palestinian, especially a Muslim, says they are from 'Israel'.

[StonyArabia]

I think you're a troll, because no Palestinian, especially a Muslim, says they are from 'Israel'.

Not true, some do and some don't. Druze for example all identify as Israelis. Some Bedouins do as well, but some don't. As for the Israeli Arab population it's the same as the Bedouins some do and some don't.

[Longbowman]

I think you're a troll, because no Palestinian, especially a Muslim, says they are from 'Israel'.

1) Rude
2) Most Israeli Arabs don't pretend they're not living in Israel. Not talking about ones from the West Bank but OP says he's from the Galilee (northern Israel)

@OP: MyHeritage sadly isn't the best. I'm 1/16 Iraqi Jewish and they just called it (gentile) Middle Eastern, so clearly they're not good at distinguishing between the two.

[Nazarene]

1) Rude
2) Most Israeli Arabs don't pretend they're not living in Israel. Not talking about ones from the West Bank but OP says he's from the Galilee (northern Israel)

@OP: MyHeritage sadly isn't the best. I'm 1/16 Iraqi Jewish and they just called it (gentile) Middle Eastern, so clearly they're not good at distinguishing between the two.

What city were your Iraqi Jewish ancestors living in?

[Longbowman]

What city were your Iraqi Jewish ancestors living in?

Baghdad mostly. Some branches almost certainly came to the city from today's Kurdistan and from Anatolia, maybe Syria too.

[Kamal900]

You're similar to my results. I too originally from 3akka or Acre in Northern Israel.

[Anglojew]

And hebrews are canaanites you've israelized & judaized & brainwashed into "Stockholm Syndrome" identifying with your chaldean conquerors. You need to return to iraq & unite with them.

Yes Kurds & Hebrews should reunite

[whoibe]

There are Bosnian Palestinians with the surname Bushnack, Bushnaq or Boshnak and I have I have a Boshnak distant relative. My dads side of the family was also rumored to have been christian before converting to Islam.

Cool I had a classmate with the last name Bushnack back in grade school.


I emailed one of my Jewish matches and he said their family immigrated back from Europe to the region in the 15th century and they did mix with the locals.

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

Which matches should one message? Anything above 7 cM that passes the one-to-one comparison or what?


I think you're a troll, because no Palestinian, especially a Muslim, says they are from 'Israel'.

All I said was that I'm an Arab residing in what is today known as Israel. I was just stating facts, one of which is that I have an Israeli passport. Pretending that Israel does not exist would make no sense. I did not make any political statements as they would/should have no bearing on my results. I mentioned that to possibly assist in interpreting my results.


1) Rude
2) Most Israeli Arabs don't pretend they're not living in Israel. Not talking about ones from the West Bank but OP says he's from the Galilee (northern Israel)

@OP: MyHeritage sadly isn't the best. I'm 1/16 Iraqi Jewish and they just called it (gentile) Middle Eastern, so clearly they're not good at distinguishing between the two.

Oh man well that just complicates things even further. Did you have better success with other sites? You can upload your results for free to MyFamilyTreeDna. I did that but the results aren't in yet for some reason.


You're similar to my results. I too originally from 3akka or Acre in Northern Israel.

Would you mind sharing them?

[Longbowman]

Oh man well that just complicates things even further. Did you have better success with other sites? You can upload your results for free to MyFamilyTreeDna. I did that but the results aren't in yet for some reason.

I've done MyHeritage, FTDNA, 23andme and Ancestry, and I've also uploaded my results to WeGene.

23andme is the best, Ancestry isn't terrible either. FTDNA comes after that.

[Levant15]

Which matches should one message? Anything above 7 cM that passes the one-to-one comparison or what?

I guess you can contact them but I personally don't like to annoy people.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Are you trying to find out if you have recent Jewish ancestry? I doubt it.
I don't think Jews converted to Islam or Christianity for that matter. Palestinians converting to Judaism is the most likely scenario that you have some matches.
If you have Jewish ancestors, then you would have hundreds and even thousands of them in myheritage and gedmatch. Go find a Jewish gedmatch kit and run it under one to many. You'll see what I'm talking about.....


Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

I guess you can contact them but I personally don't like to annoy people.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Are you trying to find out if you have recent Jewish ancestry? I doubt it.
I don't think Jews converted to Islam or Christianity for that matter. Palestinians converting to Judaism is the most likely scenario that you have some matches.
If you have Jewish ancestors, then you would have hundreds and even thousands of them in myheritage and gedmatch. Go find a Jewish gedmatch kit and run it under one to many. You'll see what I'm talking about.....


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I'm just exploring really, no harm in it, I find this quite interesting. Of my 2000 matches on Gedmatch, only a handful have Arabic Muslim surnames, but I do not know what significance that holds. That's why I asked if matches under 20 cM are noteworthy?

For example one of my MyHeritage Jewish matches shares 23 cM with me in a total of 2 segments, which the site estimates as 3rd to 5th cousin (I know these are just estimates), and I do not know what matches are 'worth' messaging.

[Levant15]

I'm just exploring really, no harm in it, I find this quite interesting. Of my 2000 matches on Gedmatch, only a handful have Arabic Muslim surnames, but I do not know what significance that holds. That's why I asked if matches under 20 cM are noteworthy?

For example one of my MyHeritage Jewish matches shares 23 cM with me in a total of 2 segments, which the site estimates as 3rd to 5th cousin (I know these are just estimates), and I do not know what matches are 'worth' messaging.Under 20 still significant. 7 to 9 is on the edge.
But 23 with 2 segments is big and recent.
I doesn't hurt to contact them and find who they are.
Btw how do you know they're Jewish? Their name or just myheritage prediction? Is he/she Ashkenazi?

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

[rein]

You're similar to my results. I too originally from 3akka or Acre in Northern Israel.

Interesting.

[Thanas Django]

All of them were barbaric and savage

How did Christian lands like Syria, Egypt and Anatolia turn Muslim? Oh yeah, barbaric and savage practices all the way to this very day.

[whoibe]

Under 20 still significant. 7 to 9 is on the edge.
But 23 with 2 segments is big and recent.
I doesn't hurt to contact them and find who they are.
Btw how do you know they're Jewish? Their name or just myheritage prediction? Is he/she Ashkenazi?

Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk

Jewish Polish last name with location set to US.

[Levant15]

Jewish Polish last name with location set to US.Can you post their ethnicity estimate?

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[waam]

I've done MyHeritage, FTDNA, 23andme and Ancestry, and I've also uploaded my results to WeGene.

23andme is the best, Ancestry isn't terrible either. FTDNA comes after that.

Did FTDNA separate between your Ashkenazi and Sephardi?

@OP Please post your FTDNA results when they're in, I'm interested to see what you score.

[Longbowman]

Did FTDNA separate between your Ashkenazi and Sephardi?

@OP Please post your FTDNA results when they're in, I'm interested to see what you score.

Yes, but the split wasn't perfect. My Sephardi ancestry is mostly Western European so perhaps that's the reason (Sephardi was undercounted, Ashkenazi was overcounted, 'European Jewish' was about right, but my Musta'arabi disappeared into 'trace regions,' with the rest being made up of SE European, which I am not).

[whoibe]

Can you post their ethnicity estimate?

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Sadly I do not have a premium account on MH. From the non-blurred out information available to me I can see that we share two ethnicities, one of which is oriental (my 35.9% vs their 15%). We also have a common DNA match (27.4 cM vs 18.6) with an Arab Christian last name (with a triangulated segment).


Did FTDNA separate between your Ashkenazi and Sephardi?

@OP Please post your FTDNA results when they're in, I'm interested to see what you score.

What results would you like to see? They're in but only the ones from Family Finder, as I have to pay for MyOrigins. My closest match is a Dutch person (75 cM), last name sounds pretty Dutch but hair is dark.

I'm tempted to shell out the 19$ to see the MyOrigins result but if is that the best option if I were willing to give out money on one more site (after MH) ?

edit: same Dutch match is on MH and we share 7 ethnicities, amongst them middle eastern (35.9 vs 36).

[rein]

Sadly I do not have a premium account on MH. From the non-blurred out information available to me I can see that we share two ethnicities, one of which is oriental (my 35.9% vs their 15%). We also have a common DNA match (27.4 cM vs 18.6) with an Arab Christian last name (with a triangulated segment).


They shouldn’t really charge for these ‘premium’ services. Chromosome browsers for dna relatives are available on 23andme as part of the package.
What results would you like to see? They're in but only the ones from Family Finder, as I have to pay for MyOrigins. My closest match is a Dutch person (75 cM), last name sounds pretty Dutch but hair is dark.

I'm tempted to shell out the 19$ to see the MyOrigins result but if is that the best option if I were willing to give out money on one more site (after MH) ?

[Levant15]

Sadly I do not have a premium account on MH. From the non-blurred out information available to me I can see that we share two ethnicities, one of which is oriental (my 35.9% vs their 15%). We also have a common DNA match (27.4 cM vs 18.6) with an Arab Christian last name (with a triangulated segment).


Go to "review match" and scroll all the way down to the bottom. You cannot see like the image attached? I have no membership and I can see this.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181008/77c9e3fdac4d099e3e801080222b225d.jpg

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[whoibe]

For some reason I see this


edit: also just found out I can't even contact any of my matches without a premium account... Can you do it?

edit: whoops, didn't notice the name was showing, had to remove the pic. Basically everything is blurred out except the first line.

[Babak]

How did Christian lands like Syria, Egypt and Anatolia turn Muslim? Oh yeah, barbaric and savage practices all the way to this very day.

Iran included.

[Levant15]

edit: also just found out I can't even contact any of my matches without a premium account... Can you do it?That's weird. I heard they're gonna start doing that for new transfers after December 1st.

Is it for all matches or just that specific one?
Download the mobile app and try that.

If that doesn't work, email myheritage support.

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[whoibe]

That's weird. I heard they're gonna start doing that for new transfers after December 1st.

Is it for all matches or just that specific one?
Download the mobile app and try that.

If that doesn't work, email myheritage support.

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All matches. I'll try the app. Would you mind removing the pic from your quote as it shows the full name? Thanks.

[whoibe]

Did FTDNA separate between your Ashkenazi and Sephardi?

@OP Please post your FTDNA results when they're in, I'm interested to see what you score.

Okay here it is. Now I'm suddenly zero percent African and 24% Turkish/Armenian.
https://image.ibb.co/d032R9/myorigins.png

[Longbowman]

FTDNA isn't perfect but it is better than MyHeritage, even for uploaded results. An 80-20 MENA/SE Euro split isn't too bad a fit for a Palestinian without much recent non-Levantine MENA input, like yourself.

[whoibe]

FTDNA isn't perfect but it is better than MyHeritage, even for uploaded results. An 80-20 MENA/SE Euro split isn't too bad a fit for a Palestinian without much recent non-Levantine MENA input, like yourself.

Would you suggest contacting Jewish matches regardless of that? I'm still curious about the triangulated match, but I'm really not sure what to even ask the matches?

[Longbowman]

Would you suggest contacting Jewish matches regardless of that? I'm still curious about the triangulated match, but I'm really not sure what to even ask the matches?

If you can, sure, why not?

[waam]

Okay here it is. Now I'm suddenly zero percent African and 24% Turkish/Armenian.
https://image.ibb.co/d032R9/myorigins.png

You don't score any Sephardic. A lot of Levantines score Sephardic in the 20%-30% range.
Scoring Asia Minor isn't out of the ordinary either, I've seen some Lebanese results and their highest components were Asia Minor then Sephardic Jewish respectively.

[whoibe]

If you can, sure, why not?

I just wouldn't know what to ask really. Any tips?

[Longbowman]

I just wouldn't know what to ask really. Any tips?

I personally haven't found that kind of thing to be very useful. My girlfriend has a 1st cousin on 23andme and they're still unable to work out how they're related (because their families are unwilling to talk; there's likely been a non-paternity event). So that stuff is never helpful unless you know how to triangulate.

[happycow]

You don't score any Sephardic. A lot of Levantines score Sephardic in the 20%-30% range.
Scoring Asia Minor isn't out of the ordinary either, I've seen some Lebanese results and their highest components were Asia Minor then Sephardic Jewish respectively.

I didn't score any sephardic either and my asia minor seems lower than most other levantine FTDNA results I've seen.

https://i.imgur.com/45gQvqW.jpg

[Teucer]

You don't score any Sephardic. A lot of Levantines score Sephardic in the 20%-30% range.
Scoring Asia Minor isn't out of the ordinary either, I've seen some Lebanese results and their highest components were Asia Minor then Sephardic Jewish respectively.

Is it fair to say the Levant received at some point an influx of ancestry from Anatolia?

IIRC, a really ancient Levantine sample was close to Bedouins, but by the Bronze age they were more or less the same with Samaritans.

The only noticeable difference I saw was in their gedmatch results was a reduction in Red Sea and an increase of West Asian and West Med

[rein]

I didn't score any sephardic either and my asia minor seems lower than most other levantine FTDNA results I've seen.

https://i.imgur.com/45gQvqW.jpg

Some fake results in many cases. Sephardic and other ancestry you don’t have on ftdna.

[Philo]

ברוך הבא לפורום!:p

[waam]

Is it fair to say the Levant received at some point an influx of ancestry from Anatolia?

IIRC, a really ancient Levantine sample was close to Bedouins, but by the Bronze age they were more or less the same with Samaritans.

The only noticeable difference I saw was in their gedmatch results was a reduction in Red Sea and an increase of West Asian and West Med

Pretty safe to assume it is. But I it's not something very recent. IIRC the Sidon sample was already pretty Anatolia shifted in comparison to Arabians and clusters with modern day Levantines. And in response to @rein I think the West Middle East population of FTDNA is a hit or miss because maybe it's based on a pretty mixed sampled population (South Levantines from the Negev are Bedouin and the Druze & Northern Levantines are heavily Anatolian).
I myself score pretty significantly for someone who isn't directly from the Levant.

https://i.imgur.com/VQ6x0vP.jpg

[Longbowman]

Pretty safe to assume it is. But I it's not something very recent. IIRC the Sidon sample was already pretty Anatolia shifted in comparison to Arabians and clusters with modern day Levantines. And in response to @rein I think the West Middle East population of FTDNA is a hit or miss because maybe it's based on a pretty mixed sampled population (South Levantines from the Negev are Bedouin and the Druze & Northern Levantines are heavily Anatolian).
I myself score pretty significantly for someone who isn't directly from the Levant.

https://i.imgur.com/VQ6x0vP.jpg

What's your actual ancestry? Curious. Also why does your layout look so different from mine?

[waam]

What's your actual ancestry? Curious. Also why does your layout look so different from mine?

1/2 Mountain Jewish, 1/4 Libyan Jewish & 1/4 Yemenite (Adeni) Jewish.
What does your layout look like?

[rein]

Pretty safe to assume it is. But I it's not something very recent. IIRC the Sidon sample was already pretty Anatolia shifted in comparison to Arabians and clusters with modern day Levantines. And in response to @rein I think the West Middle East population of FTDNA is a hit or miss because maybe it's based on a pretty mixed sampled population (South Levantines from the Negev are Bedouin and the Druze & Northern Levantines are heavily Anatolian).
I myself score pretty significantly for someone who isn't directly from the Levant.

https://i.imgur.com/VQ6x0vP.jpg

I haven’t done the FTDNA test, but wasn’t particularly impressed with MyHeritage transfer.

[Longbowman]

1/2 Mountain Jewish, 1/4 Libyan Jewish & 1/4 Yemenite (Adeni) Jewish.
What does your layout look like?

noice, so Sephardic is way overrepresented. born and raised in israel I'd imagine?

actually I checked and it isn't that different

[whoibe]

You don't score any Sephardic. A lot of Levantines score Sephardic in the 20%-30% range.
Scoring Asia Minor isn't out of the ordinary either, I've seen some Lebanese results and their highest components were Asia Minor then Sephardic Jewish respectively.

I just don't understand the huge difference in results between MH and FTDNA.. How can one site say I'm 16.7% African and 5% Turkish, and another 0% African and suddenly 25% Turkish/Armenian? I guess MH views 16.1% as Mizrahi and FTDNA as Turkish/Armenian (which doesn't make things simpler, at least for me) but how the hell do 16.7% African just 'disappear' ? The only result that's constant is my south European heritage.

[waam]

noice, so Sephardic is way overrepresented. born and raised in israel I'd imagine?

actually I checked and it isn't that different

Correct and correct, yes.

[Levant15]

I just don't understand the huge difference in results between MH and FTDNA.. How can one site say I'm 16.7% African and 5% Turkish, and another 0% African and suddenly 25% Turkish/Armenian? I guess MH views 16.1% as Mizrahi and FTDNA as Turkish/Armenian (which doesn't make things simpler, at least for me) but how the hell do 16.7% African just 'disappear' ? The only result that's constant is my south European heritage.Every company or calculator is different. It all depends on many things like what their definition of a group, population source, etc...
I think Myheritage population source for Noth African is Egyptians or other North African population that is mixed. That's why all Levantines get that North African mixture. But FTDNA North population source is probably Morocco or Algeria which they're not much in common with Levantines.
FYI using my 23andme kit, my North African changes to Sephardic North African. So it's messed up....

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181010/74d37b6cbd2497cd3f3714a0a3e18bb9.jpg

[waam]

I just don't understand the huge difference in results between MH and FTDNA.. How can one site say I'm 16.7% African and 5% Turkish, and another 0% African and suddenly 25% Turkish/Armenian? I guess MH views 16.1% as Mizrahi and FTDNA as Turkish/Armenian (which doesn't make things simpler, at least for me) but how the hell do 16.7% African just 'disappear' ? The only result that's constant is my south European heritage.

Because each test has its own reference populations and own way of calculating. Asia minor does not necessarily indicate actual recent Turkish or Armenian ancrstry, it's part of the make up of modern day Levantines. As for MyHeritage, Mizrahi Jewish is a component common among non Jewish Levantines because they share common ancestry (because Jews have Levantine roots). This however does not mean Asia Minor=Mizrahi Jewish, two different tests and two completely unrelated sets of results.

[whoibe]

Every company or calculator is different. It all depends on many things like what their definition of a group, population source, etc...
I think Myheritage population source for Noth African is Egyptians or other North African population that is mixed. That's why all Levantines get that North African mixture. But FTDNA North population source is probably Morocco or Algeria which they're not much in common with Levantines.
FYI using my 23andme kit, my North African changes to Sephardic North African. So it's messed up....

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181010/74d37b6cbd2497cd3f3714a0a3e18bb9.jpg


Because each test has its own reference populations and own way of calculating. Asia minor does not necessarily indicate actual recent Turkish or Armenian ancrstry, it's part of the make up of modern day Levantines. As for MyHeritage, Mizrahi Jewish is a component common among non Jewish Levantines because they share common ancestry (because Jews have Levantine roots). This however does not mean Asia Minor=Mizrahi Jewish, two different tests and two completely unrelated sets of results.

So basically, due to the genetic similarity between Levantines and Jews, unless you're like 40%+ mizrahi or sephardic, you can't possibly tell for sure where the Mizrahi/Sephardic score truly stems from, and the only way left is to trace your family tree by getting in touch with matches.

[waam]

So basically, due to the genetic similarity between Levantines and Jews, unless you're like 40%+ mizrahi or sephardic, you can't possibly tell for sure where the Mizrahi/Sephardic score truly stems from, and the only way left is to trace your family tree by getting in touch with matches.

That's one way to put it, yes.

[whoibe]

ברוך הבא לפורום!:p

תודה :)

[whoibe]

So in case anyone is interested: after telling my dad about one of my matches, he revealed to me that my great-great-grandmother was a Christian who converted to Islam when she got married

[waam]

Out of curiosity, do you pass as Jewish?

[whoibe]

Out of curiosity, do you pass as Jewish?

I'm very white so yea easily. Why?

[waam]

I was just wondering whether your genetic affinity to Jews had any impact on your looks. There are countless Arabs in Israel that I would have never ever mistaken for Jewish despite having light features.

[whoibe]

I was just wondering whether your genetic affinity to Jews had any impact on your looks. There are countless Arabs in Israel that I would have never ever mistaken for Jewish despite having light features.

Yes obviously light features alone would not suffice to be mistaken for Jewish but in my case light is an understatement lol

[whoibe]

////

[Leto]

There are countless Arabs in Israel that I would have never ever mistaken for Jewish despite having light features.
Even for Mizrahi Jews?

[waam]

Even for Mizrahi Jews?

Correct. Many Israeli Arabs look too "off" to pass as Jewish. I can't exactly pinpoint what it, but you can certainly tell an Arab most of the time. Something off-Caucasoid maybe, probably due to Egyptian ancestry. Every rule has an exception though.

[whoibe]

Correct. Many Israeli Arabs look too "off" to pass as Jewish. I can't exactly pinpoint what it, but you can certainly tell an Arab most of the time. Something off-Caucasoid maybe, probably due to Egyptian ancestry. Every rule has an exception though.

You're disregarding body language and behavior, though. That's contributing to your judgement whether you like it or not. Would you have the same hit rate if you were simply looking at pictures of Jews and Non-Jews?

[waam]

You're disregarding body language and behavior, though. That's contributing to your judgement whether you like it or not. Would you have the same hit rate if you were simply looking at pictures of Jews and Non-Jews?

Not disregarding it at all and I've had it in my mind while posting, but regardless I still think many Arabs (at least the ones I've had an interaction with) have their own look and would not pass as typical Mizrahi Jews. This picture is the embodiment of the steriotipical Arab look IMO. Some people in the background as well as the woman could blend in just fine but I'm referring to the men in focus in front.

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2015/10/1/f8adbf5520b9417cb073536db9176867_6.jpg

When I think of an Arab, this is exactly the look that pops into mind. Admittedly there are also many Arabs that pass without a problem and I've personally encountered some women that looked so ridiculously Jewish their hijabs looked really out of place.

[StonyArabia]

Not disregarding it at all and I've had it in my mind while posting, but regardless I still think many Arabs (at least the ones I've had an interaction with) have their own look and would not pass as typical Mizrahi Jews. This picture is the embodiment of the steriotipical Arab look IMO. Some people in the background as well as the woman could blend in just fine but I'm referring to the men in focus in front.

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2015/10/1/f8adbf5520b9417cb073536db9176867_6.jpg

When I think of an Arab, this is exactly the look that pops into mind. Admittedly there are also many Arabs that pass without a problem and I've personally encountered some women that looked so ridiculously Jewish their hijabs looked really out of place.

Can I pass in Israel? I am quite close to Georgian Jews/Mountain/Kurdish Jews. I also get a lot of Yemeni Jewish imao

[waam]

Can I pass in Israel? I am quite close to Georgian Jews/Mountain/Kurdish Jews. I also get a lot of Yemeni Jewish imao

Can you post your picture?

[StonyArabia]

Can you post your picture?

Don't quote please. Western clothes


Bedouin clothes


A combo

[whoibe]

Not disregarding it at all and I've had it in my mind while posting, but regardless I still think many Arabs (at least the ones I've had an interaction with) have their own look and would not pass as typical Mizrahi Jews. This picture is the embodiment of the steriotipical Arab look IMO. Some people in the background as well as the woman could blend in just fine but I'm referring to the men in focus in front.


When I think of an Arab, this is exactly the look that pops into mind. Admittedly there are also many Arabs that pass without a problem and I've personally encountered some women that looked so ridiculously Jewish their hijabs looked really out of place.

Okay yes you're right the men in the picture might have a hard time blending in, but they have pretty dark features. A reverse image search says these guys are from Nablus, West Bank. Arabs in the Israel/West Bank vary quite a lot in their looks. Hell, even in my tiny town you have people as dark/darker than the guys in that picture on one end of the spectrum, and Conan O'Brien levels of paleness on the other, some even blonde/with colored eyes.

[Leto]

When I think of an Arab, this is exactly the look that pops into mind. Admittedly there are also many Arabs that pass without a problem and I've personally encountered some women that looked so ridiculously Jewish their hijabs looked really out of place.
Are you talking about Muslims? What about Christian Arabs in Israel?

[Skjaldemjøden]

I've seen plenty of Arab men in Israel that can pass as Mizrahi Jews. What gives them away almost immediately is their clothing and their accents.

[StonyArabia]

Are you talking about Muslims? What about Christian Arabs in Israel?

Wtf Christians don't wear Hejabs

[Leto]

Wtf Christians don't wear Hejabs
I'm not taking about that picture. I mean are they different from the Muslims? They are indigenous Levantines.

[StonyArabia]

I'm not taking about that picture. I mean are they different from the Muslims? They are indigenous Levantines.

I think slightly. The Muslims seem to have Egyptian and Arabian ancestry with some SSA. Well Christians for the most part cluster with Samaritans but at times show SSA but not uniform like many Muslims Palestinians/Israeli Arabs.

[rein]

I'm not taking about that picture. I mean are they different from the Muslims? They are indigenous Levantines.

Basically Judeo-Christians.

[waam]

Don't quote please. Western clothes

You don't strike me as too Jewish looking but I guess you could maybe pass.

Okay yes you're right the men in the picture might have a hard time blending in, but they have pretty dark features. A reverse image search says these guys are from Nablus, West Bank. Arabs in the Israel/West Bank vary quite a lot in their looks. Hell, even in my tiny town you have people as dark/darker than the guys in that picture on one end of the spectrum, and Conan O'Brien levels of paleness on the other, some even blonde/with colored eyes.
I'm not denying the fact Arabs with light features exist. But even the man in the picture with the red shirt and blue eyes looks distinctly Arab to me. Again there are many Arabs that could pass for Jewish, but regardless of that there is still a distinct Arab look among others that you do not find among Jews.

Are you talking about Muslims? What about Christian Arabs in Israel?
I haven't had much interaction with Christians so I can't tell them apart by looks. There is a Christian Arab where I work though and she looks (and sounds) Jewish.

[StonyArabia]

You don't strike me as too Jewish looking but I guess you could maybe pass.

Cool, what people would assume if I was there? Latino, Gulf Arab, Israeli Arab/Bedouin ?

[rein]

Cool, what people would assume if I was there? Latino, Gulf Arab, Israeli Arab/Bedouin ?

Different things for different people, e.g. Bengali according to Eggyolk.

[StonyArabia]

Different things for different people, e.g. Bengali according to Eggyolk.

lol, Pakistani would be more accurate actually, no he said Sri Lankan before. I asked because there are a lot of Gulf Arab tourists in Tel Vive and there are Israeli Arab/Bedouins ?

[Leto]

lol, Pakistani would be more accurate actually, no he said Sri Lankan before. I asked because there are a lot of Gulf Arab tourists in Tel Vive and there are Israeli Arab/Bedouins ?
Is your wife Southern Iraqi?

[StonyArabia]

Is your wife Southern Iraqi?

No she from Northern Iraq but of Bedouin origins.

[whoibe]

You don't strike me as too Jewish looking but I guess you could maybe pass.

I'm not denying the fact Arabs with light features exist. But even the man in the picture with the red shirt and blue eyes looks distinctly Arab to me. Again there are many Arabs that could pass for Jewish, but regardless of that there is still a distinct Arab look among others that you do not find among Jews.

I haven't had much interaction with Christians so I can't tell them apart by looks. There is a Christian Arab where I work though and she looks (and sounds) Jewish.

Actually the guy in the red shirt looks typical Arab to me too. I'd place him somewhere between middle eastern and Turkish:
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2016/43/1477752292-image-zps0843aaba.jpg

When I say light I'm thinking more South European or close to North/Western minus the freckles. You're right though in that he resembles the typical Arabian look more.

[waam]

Cool, what people would assume if I was there? Latino, Gulf Arab, Israeli Arab/Bedouin ?
Honestly probably for an Arab. I don't think most Israelis would even differentiate between Gulf and Israeli Arabs so just an Arab.


Actually the guy in the red shirt looks typical Arab to me too. I'd place him somewhere between middle eastern and Turkish:

When I say light I'm thinking more South European or close to North/Western minus the freckles

As I said:

Admittedly there are also many Arabs that pass without a problem and I've personally encountered some women that looked so ridiculously Jewish their hijabs looked really out of place.



Again there are many Arabs that could pass for Jewish
I'm well aware of the fact there are Arabs in Israel that could pass as Jewish, being light or dark skinned. My point was (and still stands) that despite that there is a specific look that is found solely among Arabs and barely at all among Jews. You seem to agree with me on that though so what's the point of this discussion if we both agree with each other lol.

[whoibe]

Honestly probably for an Arab. I don't think most Israelis would even differentiate between Gulf and Israeli Arabs so just an Arab.



As I said:



I'm well aware of the fact there are Arabs in Israel that could pass as Jewish, being light or dark skinned. My point was (and still stands) that despite that there is a specific look that is found solely among Arabs and barely at all among Jews. You seem to agree with me on that though so what's the point of this discussion if we both agree with each other lol.

That's definitely one thing Jews and Arabs have in common lol, we still sound as though we're fighting even when we're in agreement

[Leto]

I'm well aware of the fact there are Arabs in Israel that could pass as Jewish, being light or dark skinned. My point was (and still stands) that despite that there is a specific look that is found solely among Arabs and barely at all among Jews. You seem to agree with me on that though so what's the point of this discussion if we both agree with each other lol.
Well, the Ashkenazim have a ton of European blood, the Sephardim have some as well, though less than the former. Also, all Jews 'evolved' mostly isolated from the other Middle Easterners for thousands of years.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I would not trust myheritagedna. It got my ethnicity very wrong. At least 23andme got it mostly right.

[whoibe]

I would not trust myheritagedna. It got my ethnicity very wrong. At least 23andme got it mostly right.

Do you just not trust their reference populations or the whole test? Do you get better results when you upload their raw data to FTDNA or did you need to do a whole new test kit to get a more accurate estimate?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Do you just not trust their reference populations or the whole test? Do you get better results when you upload their raw data to FTDNA or did you need to do a whole new test kit to get a more accurate estimate?

I don't trust the whole test. FTDNA isn't too good either. It thinks I'm 3-5% Sephardi Jewish/Iberian. That is probably true considering my family history, but idk about the percentage. I heard a story once of someone getting like 15% Sephardi on their and their parents getting much less if any at all. It seems to be quick to hand out Sephardi to people. If I recall my overall results were pretty off, too.

Only test that has got my true ethnicity right mostly is 23andme which makes the most sense since I think their reference populations are the biggest. Like, I'm 1/4 Irish and it picked that up. On myheritageDNA I'm only 9% Irish/Scottish/Welsh. That's not bad, but it says I'm mostly NW European, which isn't true. I'm mostly British Isles if you combine my Irish and English DNA (I'm nearly 1/8th English). Do they not have English reference population? I just got NW Euro and 9% Irish/Scottish/Welsh, as well as like 3% Slavic/Eastern European.

[whoibe]

Anyone got an idea if this means anything or if it's possibly just an error/coincidence due to the relatively small size of the segments? I checked out my MyHeritage matches again because I got a notification that I had some new ones.

4 matches (I have a total of 89 on MH) and I share one triangulated segment. All 4 have Sephardic last names (one of them is even 96% Sephardic). Is this worth looking into or is it likely just another case of genetic similarity between Jews and non-Jewish Levantines? The shared dna is 16.5 (2 segments), 12 (1), 12(1), 12.9(2) and 8.2(1).

edit: out of curiosity I viewed 2 Sephardic matches on FTDNA in the chromosome browser and they overlap the same segment of the same chromosome as the 4 MH matches


I don't trust the whole test. FTDNA isn't too good either. It thinks I'm 3-5% Sephardi Jewish/Iberian. That is probably true considering my family history, but idk about the percentage. I heard a story once of someone getting like 15% Sephardi on their and their parents getting much less if any at all. It seems to be quick to hand out Sephardi to people. If I recall my overall results were pretty off, too.

Only test that has got my true ethnicity right mostly is 23andme which makes the most sense since I think their reference populations are the biggest. Like, I'm 1/4 Irish and it picked that up. On myheritageDNA I'm only 9% Irish/Scottish/Welsh. That's not bad, but it says I'm mostly NW European, which isn't true. I'm mostly British Isles if you combine my Irish and English DNA (I'm nearly 1/8th English). Do they not have English reference population? I just got NW Euro and 9% Irish/Scottish/Welsh, as well as like 3% Slavic/Eastern European.

Well that's another reason for me to make use of their thanksgiving deal. Would be interesting to discover my haplogroups too.

[waam]

Anyone got an idea if this means anything or if it's possibly just an error/coincidence due to the relatively small size of the segments? I checked out my MyHeritage matches again because I got a notification that I had some new ones.

4 matches (I have a total of 89 on MH) and I share one triangulated segment. All 4 have Sephardic last names (one of them is even 96% Sephardic). Is this worth looking into or is it likely just another case of genetic similarity between Jews and non-Jewish Levantines? The shared dna is 16.5 (2 segments), 12 (1), 12(1), 12.9(2) and 8.2(1).

edit: out of curiosity I viewed 2 Sephardic matches on FTDNA in the chromosome browser and they overlap the same segment of the same chromosome as the 4 MH matches



Well that's another reason for me to make use of their thanksgiving deal. Would be interesting to discover my haplogroups too.

Does it tell you they are "Low confidence" matches?

[Longbowman]

Anyone got an idea if this means anything or if it's possibly just an error/coincidence due to the relatively small size of the segments? I checked out my MyHeritage matches again because I got a notification that I had some new ones.

4 matches (I have a total of 89 on MH) and I share one triangulated segment. All 4 have Sephardic last names (one of them is even 96% Sephardic). Is this worth looking into or is it likely just another case of genetic similarity between Jews and non-Jewish Levantines? The shared dna is 16.5 (2 segments), 12 (1), 12(1), 12.9(2) and 8.2(1).

edit: out of curiosity I viewed 2 Sephardic matches on FTDNA in the chromosome browser and they overlap the same segment of the same chromosome as the 4 MH matches



Well that's another reason for me to make use of their thanksgiving deal. Would be interesting to discover my haplogroups too.

Maybe you have a convert recent-ish ancestor.

[whoibe]

Does it tell you they are "Low confidence" matches?
Yes, but:
1) MyHeritage classifies all DNA matches where the largest segment is 12 cM and smaller as low confidence, so quite a majority of distant cousins
2) doesn't sharing a triangulated segment with 5 matches and more (2 of which are siblings) make it very unlikely that a match was a fluke? What are the chances that siblings would both have the same false match?


Maybe you have a convert recent-ish ancestor.

Do the ethnicity estimates of these 5 (I miscounted them as 4 in my original post) matches give any hints as to the origin of the common ancestor MH says we have?


a) 96.8% Sephardic, 3.2% Iberian
b) 49.3% Ashkenazi, 33.5% Sephardic, 12.3% Greek, 3.3% Italian, 1.6% English
c) 48.5% Ashekanzi, 24.0% Sephardic, 7.4% North and West European, 7.2% Greek, 6.8% Balkan, 6.1% Middle eastern
d) 75.7% Sephardic, 7.9% Ashkenazi,7.6% Balkan, 3.9% Greek, 3.5% North African, 1.4% Nigerian
e) 43.3% Sephardic, 27.3% West Asian, 13.9% Mizrahi, 8.2% Middle Eastern, 4.4% North African, 2.9% Ashkenazi

edit Another question to you, Longbowman: is it unusual for an Ashkenazi jew to only score 6.8% Ashkenazi on MyHeritage (and 0% on any of the other Jewish categories)? One of my matches with a Polish Jewish last name only scores that much, isn't that 'too little' ? Or is that possible if, for example, an Ashkenazi gg-grandmother intermarried or converted? Google does say that that name was given to Polish Jews who converted to Christianity

[Babak]

Youre basically native with west asian-like ancestry bro. The CHG is most likely ancient.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

Youre basically native with west asian-like ancestry bro. The CHG is most likely ancient.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Native what and what does CHG stand for? :confused:

[Longbowman]

Yes, but:
1) MyHeritage classifies all DNA matches where the largest segment is 12 cM and smaller as low confidence, so quite a majority of distant cousins
2) doesn't sharing a triangulated segment with 5 matches and more (2 of which are siblings) make it very unlikely that a match was a fluke? What are the chances that siblings would both have the same false match?



Do the ethnicity estimates of these 5 (I miscounted them as 4 in my original post) matches give any hints as to the nature of the common ancestor MH says we have?


a) 96.8% Sephardic, 3.2% Iberian
b) 49.3% Ashkenazi, 33.5% Sephardic, 12.3% Greek, 3.3% Italian, 1.6% English
c) 48.5% Ashekanzi, 24.0% Sephardic, 7.4% North and West European, 7.2% Greek, 6.8% Balkan, 6.1% Middle eastern
d) 75.7% Sephardic, 7.9% Ashkenazi,7.6% Balkan, 3.9% Greek, 3.5% North African, 1.4% Nigerian
e) 43.3% Sephardic, 27.3% West Asian, 13.9% Mizrahi, 8.2% Middle Eastern, 4.4% North African, 2.9% Ashkenazi

edit Another question to you, Longbowman: is it unusual for an Ashkenazi jew to only score 6.8% Ashkenazi on MyHeritage (and 0% on any of the other Jewish categories)? One of my matches with a Polish Jewish last name only scores that much, isn't that 'too little' ? Or is that possible if, for example, an Ashkenazi gg-grandmother intermarried or converted? Google does say that that name was given to Polish Jews who converted to Christianity

MyHeritage is shit, so I'm loathe to come down hard either way, but yes, that's low.

Still, try a more established site before you call up the orphanages to see if they remember you.

It could be that that person isn't a full Ashkenazi Jew anyway. Maybe only 1/16.

[whoibe]

MyHeritage is shit, so I'm loathe to come down hard either way, but yes, that's low.

Still, try a more established site before you call up the orphanages to see if they remember you.

It could be that that person isn't a full Ashkenazi Jew anyway. Maybe only 1/16.

I don't think any other site offers triangulation. That sets MyHeritage apart in my opinion. Or am I wrong?

Also what do you think of these ethnicity estimates? Is it usual for Sephardic Jews to score 0% middle eastern? I guess that rules out us having common levantine ancestry. We don't share any Arab matches either.

[whoibe]

I've found out through promethease.com that my haplogroup is J2. Does this say anything?

Also, going through my first 150 or so GEDMatch matches I've found 4 other Jewish matches that match me on the same chromosome segment as my MH matches (as well as each other on that same segment)

[Kamal900]

I've found out through promethease.com that my haplogroup is J2. Does this say anything?

Also, going through my first 150 or so GEDMatch matches I've found 4 other Jewish matches that match me on the same chromosome segment as my MH matches (as well as each other on that same segment)

J2 is most likely native Levantine. I think you do have ancient Israelite ancestry for the most part like me.

[Babak]

Native what and what does CHG stand for? :confused:

Native levantine ancestry. CHG is caucasian hunter gatherers, its what most west asians have.

[happycow]

J2 is most likely native Levantine. I think you do have ancient Israelite ancestry for the most part like me.

do you know your Y-DNA?

[Kamal900]

do you know your Y-DNA?

Not yet, but I do know my mtDNA which is U3, and longbowman told me that an Israelite man belonged to the same haplogroup as I am more than 2000 years ago.

[whoibe]

J2 is most likely native Levantine. I think you do have ancient Israelite ancestry for the most part like me.

What I'm wondering about now is how come I score much higher (lower distance) Syrian and Lebanese than Palestinian or Arabs_Israel on every single GEDmatch test? This puzzles me even more when comparing my results to those of actual Syrians and Lebanese like the ones posted here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11783-GedMatch-Eurogenes-Middle-Eastern-Results) (I hope I'm allowed to link to other forums, otherwise sorry!) who have Palestinian and Arabs_Israel at a much lower distance than I (even as lowest distance for some). What on earth are they using as reference populations that they're showing up no where near the top in the results?

This is really the case for every test. A couple more:

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Syrian @ 5.078135
2 Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.765339
3 Jordanian @ 8.045209
4 Samaritan @ 8.355210
5 Cyprian @ 8.525314
6 Palestinian @ 9.835448
7 Lebanese_Christian @ 10.295339
8 Tunisian_Jewish @ 11.601144
9 Bedouin @ 12.419080
10 Libyan_Jewish @ 12.768428
11 Kurdish_Jewish @ 13.238674
12 Iranian_Jewish @ 13.475235
13 Lebanese_Druze @ 13.940656
14 Sephardic_Jewish @ 14.507978
15 Assyrian @ 15.314764
16 Algerian_Jewish @ 15.693653
17 Italian_Jewish @ 16.293404
18 Egyptian @ 17.072977
19 Turkish @ 18.628244
20 Georgian_Jewish @ 19.099371

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% Jordanian @ 4.734040


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian_Jewish +25% Moroccan +25% Samaritan @ 2.473386

MDLP K16 Modern 4-Ancestors Oracle
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon @ 2.949764
2 Jew_Syria @ 3.830745
3 Lebanese_Christian_Lebanon @ 3.912414
4 Arab_Israel_Iqrit @ 4.905327
5 Jordanian_Jordanian @ 5.587476
6 Syrian_Syria @ 6.530841
7 Samaritan_Israel @ 6.895977
8 Lebanese_Lebanon @ 7.153776
9 Arab_Israel_Shefa_Amr @ 7.480953
10 Assyrian_Iran @ 7.862566
11 Jew_Georgia @ 8.624415
12 Jew_Azerbaijan @ 8.888544
13 Palestinian_Israel @ 9.124882
14 Turk_Adana @ 9.167539
15 Jew_Kurdish @ 9.238638
16 Cypriot_Cyprus @ 9.437604
17 Armenian_Gavar @ 9.685884
18 Assyrian_Armavir @ 9.711676
19 Assyrian_Iraq @ 9.721225
20 Jew_Turkish_Sephardim @ 10.022146

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Muslim_Lebanon +50% Jew_Syria @ 2.589824


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian_Yerevan +25% Egyptian_Mansoura_Cairo +25% Jew_Turkey @ 1.457804