Idea: A new Atlantic Order ?

[The Lawspeaker]

A new Atlantic Order ?

It is widely understood that both the EU and NATO have run into trouble. In both cases, there is a problem of Imperial Overstretch and the attempt to unify cultures that don’t belong together. There is also the problem of antagonizing Russia while getting nothing in return and engage in wars that benefit nobody.

I thus propose an entirely new Atlantic Order that should revolve around the continuation of NATO while focusing on its core countries and core principles. I believe NATO should return within its 1989 territory with the exception of countries outside of Europe and with the unification of Germany under NATO and with the exception of both Greece and Turkey which will be relieved of their duties and membership.

This Atlantic Order should compose of three elements: Security, Trade and Diplomacy.



https://www.stepmap.de/landkarte/NATO-Staatten-1949-1991-1605963.png


Security.

For this task, NATO should should continue to fulfill its role as the traditional Atlantic Alliance, while beefing up its own security by setting up a Joint Assets and Research Program (JARP) where the American model of competition for research and armaments purchases is accessible to all NATO countries. In other words: combinations of Western European, American, Canadian and other Allied firms will be free to compete for NATO-wide purchases which will harmonize our defense systems and do away with the myriads of structures and systems we employ today for the most important assets: fighter jets, ammunition, electronics, tanks, helicopters and other aircraft. Members should be requested to add the 2% rule to their constitutions. The Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany should be up for renegotiation and Germany should be allowed to expand its armed forces back to its pre-1989 size or (if they choose so) beyond that number. Both Canada, the Netherlands and Germany should be welcomed to join the nuclear club, Australia should also be welcomed to join the same.

It will be NATO’s role to guarantee both the territorial, social and political integrity against foreign intrusions but also the guarantee and guarantee the neutrality of Central and Eastern Europe, the latter of which will be role shared with Russia. That means that the countries of Central Europe can neither join NATO (or any of its other related organizations) or any Russian organizations.

Expansion: Even-though there will be no Eastward expansion, NATO’s reach could still become global as we could invite Australia and New Zealand to join our ranks. As the world’s oceans cover some 70% of the planet and our security in Europe is covered by a series of buffer states, NATO will need to seek to protect the world’s vital sealanes by investing heavily in its expeditionary and maritime qualities.

Western Europe’s resource situation continues to be source of problems and this is why it’s important to look away from Russia by not just continuing to explore their own territory and opt for alternative technologies but to also import from allied countries such as Canada and the United States.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/EU15-1995_European_Union_map_enlargement.svg/300px-EU15-1995_European_Union_map_enlargement.svg.png


Trade

That the EU will collapse is no longer a question of if, but of when and, perhaps, this is only just as well as the EU may well have damaged Europe beyond repair but we can, at least, attempt to make repairs and thus it's time for the EU to go. The demise of the EU will, once more, allow for the individual nations to settle their own affairs in regards to their own needs and traditions but it would be important for our own economic health (as well as our strategic security) to set up a trade block that keeps other players (such as India or China) at bay. I thus propose that the EFTA is to be expanded across the Atlantic into the Trans-Atlantic Free Trade Association (TAFTA) which will cover the same membership as NATO. Some steps may need to be taken in order to protect heritage products and to protect the Western-European wish to keep out genetically modified but those can be written into the treaty and the countries can be free to withdraw such points at any moment. Such a free market approach may also force members like France, Italy, Spain and Portugal to become more effective in their approach towards both industry and agriculture. Various disputes that may arise can be solved by individual nations courts or a court of arbitration.


Diplomacy.

It may have become apparent to some that the UN has a deeply anti-white bias and that it may well be a good idea for us to leave the UN and to remove their institutions from our soil in order to prevent them from having any power over us. I therefore propose the re-creation of the League of Nations for the same members as above, as operating under a modified UN Charter that does away with the Security Council. The necessity of each UN institution should be reviewed and, if necessary, copied into a League of Nations institution. Its seats should be on both sides of the Atlantic and with their previous experience, it might be a good idea to move the seats of various services to both New York, Paris and The Hague. Indeed: I think we should actually seek to bar the UN from using the name UN (forcing them to use a different name) as the UN was born out of WWII Allies who also used the same name and this is merely an expansion of that alliance. So the West will become the new UN.

As for former EU institutions:



The EMA (the European version of the U.S Food and Drugs Administration ), European Food Safety Authority and ECDC should be preserved and continue to do the same work and preferably even be merged into one institution so overhead costs can be cut (EHRA European Health and Research Administration). Research should take place at a secure location (preferably somewhere in a cave in the Alps - much like the Svalbard Global Seed Vault (only even more secure) .
The roles of the European Union Satellite Centre and the European Union Institute for Security Studies could easily be subsumed by NATO.
The role of the Translation Centre for the Bodies of the European Union might as well be taken over by any translation boards in NATO and the rest can be diverted to a new League of Nations and TAFTA
The European Space Agency, the European GNSS Agency and the currently proposed EU Agency for the Space Programme, can easily remain existing Western European programs which lean heavily on their NASA counterparts. The same applies to CERN and their U.S counterpart.
Europol, the European Police College and Eurojust can easily be reconfigured into a wider Trans-Atlantic role where security services from both sides of the Atlantic can exchange information, coordinate the fight on organized crime and learn from each other's expertise.
The European Maritime Safety Agency should continue to be a shared agency of the Western European members of the Atlantic alliance which should allow them to share both data as well as expertise. The EMSA too, should continue to work in close conjunction with their counterparts on the other side of the Atlantic.



Anyone else got some ideas ?

[Caveat Emptor]

A new Atlantic Order ?

It is widely understood that both the EU and NATO have run into trouble. In both cases, there is a problem of Imperial Overstretch and the attempt to unify cultures that don’t belong together. There is also the problem of antagonising Russia while getting nothing in return and engage in wars that benefit none.

I thus propose an entirely new Atlantic Order that should revolve around the continuation of NATO while focussing on its core countries and core principles. I believe NATO should return within its 1989 territory with the exception of countries outside of Europe and with the unification of Germany under NATO and with the exception of both Greece and Turkey which will be relieved of their duties and membership.

This Atlantic Order should compose of three elements: Security, Trade and Diplomacy.


Security.

For this task, NATO should should continue to fulfil its role as the traditional Atlantic Alliance, while beefing up its own security by setting up a Joint Assets and Research Program (JARP) where the American model of competition for research and armaments purchases is to be used NATO Wide. In other words: combinations of Western European, American, Canadian and other allies firms will be free to compete for NATO-wide purchases which will harmonise our defense systems and do away with the myriads of structures and systems we employ today for the most important assets: fighter jets, ammunition, electronics, tanks, helicopters and other aircraft. Members are requested to add the 2% rule to their constitutions. The Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany should be up for renegotation and Germany should be allowed to expand its armed forces back to its pre-1989 and (if they choose so) beyond. Both Canada, the Netherlands and Germany should try to opt to join the nuclear club, Australia should also be welcomed to join the same.

It will be NATO’s role to guarantee both the territorial, social and political integrity against foreign intrusions but also the guarantee and guarantee the neutrality of Central and Eastern Europe, the latter of which will be role shared with Russia. That means that the countries of Central Europe can neither NATO (or any of its other related organisations) or any Russian organisations.

Expansion: NATO’s expansion will be global as its outreach, while looking away from Central and Eastern Europe an by inviting Australia and New Zealand to join our ranks. As the world’s oceans cover some 70% of the planet and our security in Europe is covered by a series of buffer states, NATO will need to seek to protect the world’s vital sealanes by investing heavily in its expeditionary and maritime qualities.

Western Europe’s resource situation continues to be source of problems and this is why it’s important to look away from Russia by not just continuing to explore their own territorium and opt for alternative technologies but to also import from allied countries such as Canada and the United States.

Trade

That the EU will collapse is no longer a question of if, but of when and, perhaps, this is for the better. This will allow for the individual nations to settle their own affairs in regards to their needs and traditions but it would be important for our own economies (as well as our strategic security) to set up a trade block that keeps other players at bay. I thus propose that the EFTA is to be expanded across the Atlantic into the Trans-Atlantic Free Trade Association (TAFTA) which will cover the same membership as NATO. Some steps may need to be taken in order to protect heritage products and to protect the Western-European wish to keep out genetically modified but those can be written into the treaty and the countries can be free to withdraw such points at any moment. Such a free trade approach may also force members like France, Italy, Spain and Portugal to become more effective in their approach towards both industry and agriculture. Various disputes that may arise can be solved by individual nations courts or a court of arbitration.


Diplomacy.

It may have become apparent to some that the UN has a deeply anti-white bias and that it may well be a good idea for us to leave the UN and to remove their institutions from our soil in order to prevent them from having any power over us. I therefore propose the re-creation of the League of Nations for the same members as above, as operating under a modified UN Charter that does away with the Security Council. The necessity of each UN institution should be reviewed and, if necessary, copied into a League of Nations institution. Its seats should be on both sides of the Atlantic and with their previous experience, it might be a good idea to move the seats of various services to both New York, Paris and The Hague. Indeed: I think we should actually seek to bar the UN from using the name UN (forcing them to use a different name) as the UN was born out of WWII Allies who also used the same name and this is merely an expansion of that alliance. So the West will become the new UN.

Anyone else got some ideas ?

Well the first fundamental objection would be that the Eastern European and Baltic countries are in NATO because they need protection from Russia. In the light of the events that unfolded in Georgia and Ukraine, it's perfectly rational for Estonia or Lithuania to want to be in NATO. Hungary had its uprising in 1956 against being in the Soviet sphere of influence, Czech Republic in 1968.

To think that we could "share" the security organization over these countries with Russia is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, it's not like we have to fear Russia. Russian economy is the size of Benelux (not able to sustain any war - look how sluggish they are in the Ukraine) and its demographic trends are even more worrying.

I love the ordinary Russian people but I see no reason to bow down to their oligarchic class and stimulate their ambitions to flex muscles beyond their borders when they already have the biggest country in the world and should focus their efforts internally.

(I even have some distant Russian ancestry by the way, nothing against fellow Russians).

[The Lawspeaker]

Well the first fundamental objection would be that the Eastern European and Baltic countries are in NATO because they need protection from Russia. In the light of the events that unfolded in Georgia and Ukraine, it's perfectly rational for Estonia or Lithuania to want to be in NATO. Hungary had its uprising in 1956 against being in the Soviet sphere of influence, Czech Republic in 1968.

To think that we could "share" the security organization over these countries with Russia is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, it's not like we have to fear Russia. It's economy is the size of Benelux (not able to sustain any war - look how sluggish they are in the Ukraine) and its demographic trends are even more worrying.

I love the ordinary Russian people but I see no reason to bow down to their oligarchic class and stimulate their ambitions to flex muscles beyond their borders when they already have the biggest country in the world and should focus their efforts internally.

(I even have some distant Russian ancestry by the way, nothing against fellow Russians).

I just don't think we should risk our lives for these people while antagonizing Russia. NATO promised not to expand East and I think we should keep that promise so we may live in peace and if that comes at the expense of Central Europe, then I don't really care. As for the Russians: they should lose any leverage in Western Europe (https://www.cer.eu/insights/how-reduce-dependence-russian-gas). We are pulling out of Central Europe and bankrupting Russia at the same time because they simply will have no money to spend and nothing to spend it on (defense budgets). Central Europe will be left Finlandised (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization) by both us and the Russians.

[The Lawspeaker]

Updated.

[Fantomas]

A new Atlantic Order ?
I believe NATO should return within its 1989 territory

That's almost exatly situation before wars, except Germany. And the experience shows that Western Europe is very vunlerable in this configuration either economically and militarily as well. Also, no one knows what are the challenges lie ahead. That might be some alliance of giant aggressive states with tyrannical type of power which can be more effective in the short run and quick in decision making. Its much better if you're big and strong, than you're small, weak and depend on some one else

[Blondie]

Well the first fundamental objection would be that the Eastern European and Baltic countries are in NATO because they need protection from Russia. In the light of the events that unfolded in Georgia and Ukraine, it's perfectly rational for Estonia or Lithuania to want to be in NATO. Hungary had its uprising in 1956 against being in the Soviet sphere of influence, Czech Republic in 1968.

To think that we could "share" the security organization over these countries with Russia is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, it's not like we have to fear Russia. Russian economy is the size of Benelux (not able to sustain any war - look how sluggish they are in the Ukraine) and its demographic trends are even more worrying.

I love the ordinary Russian people but I see no reason to bow down to their oligarchic class and stimulate their ambitions to flex muscles beyond their borders when they already have the biggest country in the world and should focus their efforts internally.

(I even have some distant Russian ancestry by the way, nothing against fellow Russians).

Russia is very powerful, don't underestimate them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ue6evEKbeM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdEEhLzLKOU

Russia is the second strongest military power in the World:
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=russia

[The Lawspeaker]

That's almost exatly situation before wars, except Germany. And the experience shows that Western Europe is very vunlerable in this configuration either economically and militarily as well. Also, no one knows what are the challenges lie ahead. That might be some alliance of giant aggressive states with tyrannical type of power which can be more effective in the short run and quick in decision making. Its much better if you're big and strong, than you're small, weak and depend on some one else

We could keep the Baltic States, Slovenia, Croatia and invite in Sweden, Austria and Finland though. Maybe a "Global Nato" with Japan, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan and New Zealand.

[The Lawspeaker]

Actually: the Russians are very vulnerable - it's the same as during the latter stages of the Cold War: they have a lot of propaganda but they are still building up. The moment we drop their lifeline (trade - mainly in natural resources) Their entire economy comes crashing down. Also: they need to import a lot. Sell it to China instead.

[Óttar]

Why boot out Greece, Germany, and Spain?

[The Lawspeaker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfGmyj0EKoo


In this video we deal with the question:Is Russia European? And we analyze the place Russia takes in the Europe of today. Like our content? Donate so we can create more and better videos. All support is greatly appreciated! goo.gl/Hi8o7P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyffBbTkSAA

About the current strained relationship between Russia and Europe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haphztuIDyk

Should we keep NATO as it is, or should Europe create its own army? This video offers a future prospect for our continent's defence.

[The Lawspeaker]

Why boot out Greece, Germany, and Spain?

You misread. I said: booting out Eastern Europe. Germany, Greece and Spain aren't Eastern Europe.

[Óttar]

You misread. I said: booting out Eastern Europe. Germany, Greece and Spain aren't Eastern Europe.

Why are Spain, Germany, and Greece light blue? You wrote "Greece and Turkey will be relieved of their duties."

[The Lawspeaker]

Why are Spain, Germany, and Greece light blue? You wrote "Greece and Turkey will be relieved of their duties."

As neither of the three states were founding members but were added later: Greece and Turkey joined in 1952. West Germany in 1955, Spain in 1982, East Germany joined West Germany and thus as Germany was a member in 1991.

[Dominator]

The truth is that modern Western Europe can do nothing without the permission of its masters from Zion...Macron has shown his loyalty to Zion and he is not alone in it.

[Veles]

The truth is that modern Western Europe can do nothing without the permission of its masters from Zion...Macron has shown his loyalty to Zion and he is not alone in it.
I am sure that "the Lawspeaker" is our East Slavic brother who imagines himself a resident of the Netherlands and an adviser to NATO. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

I am sure that "the Lawspeaker" is our East Slavic brother who imagines himself a resident of the Netherlands and an adviser to NATO. :D

The funny thing is, though, that Russia would lose its most important asset to influence Western Europe: gas. We should buy it in Canada and the USA and look for alternatives as well. It would mean that the Russian economy would crash completely, worse than 1998 in fact. But since we're focusing on the Atlantic Area, that would not be our problem.

[The Lawspeaker]

http://oi63.tinypic.com/20tsadd.jpg

(https://ibb.co/DgYqjjJ)Here is my world map (https://i.ibb.co/JFqhSS1/map.png). Yes: I see the "Global Partnership" as something distinct from NATO and as something that the European partners have nothing to do with and I would suggest that only the U.S, Canada, Australia and New Zealand would be in both organisations. I also suggest that Eastern Europe is to be "Finlandised" (forced neutrality) while Russia's economy will falter (and with that the whole of society) as the West (it's main trading partner for mineral resources) looks elsewhere (the U.S, Canada, Norway, Latin America and several neutral countries) and assists Eastern European countries in gaining access through NATO or GP nations. While Russia runs into hot water, Western Europe should just sit back and weather the storm.

As for the Global Partnership: it should be a temporal measure to keep out both Russia and China and may, in the future, include several African countries. Several regimes in Latin America (Venezuela, Honduras, Nicaragua, Cuba and Bolivia) may need to be be toppled in order to drive out pro-Chinese and pro-Russian groups. But that's America's business and Western Europe should stay out of those affairs. Another regime that needs to go is North Korea and its collapse should lead to a Korean reunification and a strict Korean neutrality.

It would be prudent if Western countries would divest both Russia and China and re-industrialise our own societies so we can flourish at the expense of our "enemies" and would be no immorality in it as this would reflect what they have done to us for the last 20 years.

[Bosniensis]

A new Atlantic Order ?

...


You will be disappointed with Greeks, Italians and Spaniards.

[The Lawspeaker]

You will be disappointed with Greeks, Italians and Spaniards.

The Greeks would very likely be out. As for the Spanish and Italians ? Even NATO membership should be a temporal thing. There is a core NATO that we should keep around for later while the rest sheds after Russia withers away back into obscurity.

[Bosniensis]

The Greeks would very likely be out. As for the Spanish and Italians ? Even NATO membership should be a temporal thing. There is a core NATO that we should keep around for later while the rest sheds after Russia withers away back into obscurity.

This is how I look it, Italians today are in deep sleep, they don't understand anything what is happening. If Germans ever invade Turkey, Greeks will moan about Greeks in Turkey, then they will complain to Italians, Italians will complain to Germany, then Spaniards will complain etc..

You should ditch all Mediterranean states and create Germanic Atlantic Union with people you can trust, like USA + Holland + England + Germany + France + Norway etc....

Don't stick to Meds, they have became Oriental too much.

[The Lawspeaker]

This is how I look it, Italians today are in deep sleep, they don't understand anything what is happening. If Germans ever invade Turkey, Greeks will moan about Greeks in Turkey, then they will complain to Italians, Italians will complain to Germany, then Spaniards will complain etc..

You should ditch all Mediterranean states and create Germanic Atlantic Union with people you can trust, like USA + Holland + England + Germany + France + Norway etc....

Don't stick to Meds, they have became Oriental too much.

Something like this, you mean ?

http://oi68.tinypic.com/357iqh4.jpg

[Bosniensis]

Something like this, you mean ?

http://oi68.tinypic.com/357iqh4.jpg

Yeah, you've done that? Smart.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yeah, you've done that? Smart.

I use this tool (https://mapchart.net/) to make maps.

[The Lawspeaker]

I guess that when you think of it.. that since Eastern Europe will be forced into neutrality, most of NATO's military expenses would be in intelligence, cyberwarfare but also in the various national navies and air forces since the odds of a full-blown military conflict in Europe itself will be dramatically reduced and if the Balkans or some other place blows up, it simply won't be our problem. For countries like the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark - most of our army could be either done away with while retaining the special forces or reformed into a rapid response force as part of a marine corps. Most of our air force could, practically, become navalised (in the case of the Netherlands, I would recreate the Naval Aviation Service and simply merge the Air Force into them) using a lot of F35Bs or the Sea Gripen. Then we should start focussing on building more destroyers and some multifunctional AAC's to replace some of our hardware. Real big land armies are something for the Americans, the Germans, the Canadians, the French and to a lesser extent the Swiss, the Brits, the Austrians and the Norwegians (because of their border with Russia).

[Bosniensis]

I use this tool (https://mapchart.net/) to make maps.

Heh Too Late. But I'll remake this one I just updated with Paint xD

This is how I imagine future, does it makes sense to you?

https://i.imgur.com/6EZKcDu.png

[The Lawspeaker]

Heh Too Late. But I'll remake this one I just updated with Paint xD

This is how I imagine future, does it makes sense to you?

https://i.imgur.com/6EZKcDu.png

Our main interest would thus be the Northern Atlantic. We might then just as well have the Basques join NATO and have Padania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padania) become independent (as a NATO member).

[Ülev]

don't listen to the wrong advisers, make your own alliance as wide as it is possible, for geopolitics there is a need to control Greece etc. :p

[Bosniensis]

Our main interest would thus be the Northern Atlantic.

I also think that Mediterranean, Germanic, Asiatic etc.. peoples should stick together. (Not in the sense there should be constant wars) but in the sense of cultural preservation.

The only problem are Meds, cause they are religiously diverse (Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims) that will probably never work.

[The Lawspeaker]

I also think that Mediterranean, Germanic, Asiatic etc.. peoples should stick together. (Not in the sense there should be constant wars) but in the sense of cultural preservation.

The only problem are Meds, cause they are religiously diverse (Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims) that will probably never work.
The Med will be a good old-fashioned mess. Thankfully, it wouldn't be our problem and eventhough the French are Meds, they might probably prefer to jog with us instead. The same goes for the Basques, the Portuguese and the North Italians. Slovenia and Croatia probably too.

[The Lawspeaker]

What would also be interesting would be to set up a joint-North American/ANZAC/Germanic Europe association that influences policies in the respective countries and looks at what we can learn from each other rather than looking abroad. There are tons of things on both sides of the Atlantic that we can tweak and adopt. This includes things as small as improving service in railway classes (installing bistro cars like in the UK and actual service in first class) to big things like a First and Second Amendment.

[justTosee]

Actually: the Russians are very vulnerable - it's the same as during the latter stages of the Cold War: they have a lot of propaganda but they are still building up. The moment we drop their lifeline (trade - mainly in natural resources) Their entire economy comes crashing down. Also: they need to import a lot. Sell it to China instead.

A few 60 Mgt of Thermonukes in France & US, and we will "see" how much is left of your filthy "West".

[The Lawspeaker]

A few 60 Mgt of Thermonukes in France & US, and we will "see" how much is left of your filthy "West".

Yawn. Without us, you'll have two choices: speaking Russian or speaking Turkish. Whichever one you "choose" (at the point of a bayonet) isn't important to us. There are things much more important to us that the Eastern quagmire of corruptistans: everything. Even the non-existing trade with the Moon would be more important to us than whatever goes on in the East.

So whatever not-so-interesting stuff you crap out, you would only prove Atlanticists like myself right.

[Dragoon]

The most likely to remain in NATO are the more heavily Atlanticist countries (or maybe governments).

That would be countries like Netherlands, the Anglo countries and Lawspeakers favorite countries like Poland and East European, Romania, Baltics (bordering Russia),

France, Spain, Greece, see it less positively. Germans in past few years have lowered their support of NATO.
There are a few countries where a minority support it, but the big polls dont cover them (you have to see their national views).

The National Conservative anti-immigration parties are basically divided into ECR (more pro US) and Salvinis new Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Alliance_of_People_and_Nations (more pro Europe).

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/06/support-for-nato-is-widespread-among-member-nations/

[The Lawspeaker]

The most likely to remain in NATO are the more heavily Atlanticist countries (or maybe governments).

That would be countries like Netherlands, the Anglo countries and Poland, East European (bordering Russia),

France, Spain, Greece, see it less positively. Germans in past few years have lowered their support of NATO.
There are a few countries where a minority support it, but the big polls dont cover them (you have to see their national views).

The National Conservative anti-immigration parties are basically divided into ECR (more pro US) and Salvinis new Group (more pro Europe).

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/06/support-for-nato-is-widespread-among-member-nations/
In other words - core NATO. But I would prefer to abandon Poland just the same. Why ? Because it simply doesn't serve our own goals - which aren't land-based and towards Russia but sea-based and engaged in the protection of our own economic lifelines: in other words - the Atlantic Ocean, the Caribbean, the Arctic Region, the Panama Canal and the Pacific. but also the Indian Ocean).

No more this:

https://viralknot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/US-Army-soldiers.jpg

But a lot of this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Abraham-Lincoln-battlegroup.jpg

https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/styles/desktop__1486_x_614/public/main_images/F22_Pacific.jpg?itok=s_lUwyZ1

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b69b21364dce8fb438b4631-750-498.jpg

[justTosee]

Yawn. Without us, you'll have two choices: speaking Russian or speaking Turkish. Whichever one you "choose" (at the point of a bayonet) isn't important to us.

Don't try to fool here.

You forget i said "only" the West. The rest of Europe = not included (North, South, East)

And speaking about "Turks", who are the retards coming here coming with wolf sign & emblems that strikingly ressembles that of the turks ? :D

and Turkey btw is a pro-western country, supported by mainly Western countries. Russia is North-Eastern european country, so not at all concerned :D

Sorry but it seems the whole world hates you. and you are still into your "oh but the West dominates the world". At the end, this will be your doom :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Don't try to fool here.

You forget i said "only" the West. The rest of Europe = not included (North, South, East)

And speaking about "Turks", who are the retards coming here coming with wolf sign & emblems that strikingly ressembles that of the turks ? :D

and Turkey btw is a pro-western country, supported by mainly Western countries. Russia is North-Eastern european country, so not at all concerned :D

Sorry but it seems the whole world hates you. and you are still into your "oh but the West dominates the world". At the end, this will be your doom :D

I don't care about your views. In fact: if you hate us so much, then why would you even want to be in NATO ? And why are you so butt-hurt about Western Europeans wanting to go their own way with the ANZACS, Canadians and Americans ? Or maybe it's because you know, deep down, that without us, you're fucked ? :thumb001:

This will have nothing to do with you as we would be looking West. Not East:

http://oi68.tinypic.com/357iqh4.jpg

[justTosee]

NATO should be enterly exterminated.

It's people, declared warcriminals, killed and hanged.

It's military bases, nuked out (specially the one in Romania, is has only served to kill innocent civilians in Afganistan)

not to mention those located in the ME (Located in Turkey : served as terrorist base/recruitement/training, Located near Iran : serves as intimidation, Located in SA : serves as nothing)

Once all this is done, then the whole world will start to "breathe" again :D

[Dragoon]

In other words - core NATO. But I would prefer to abandon Poland just the same. Why ? Because it simply doesn't serve our own goals - which aren't land-based and towards Russia but sea-based and engaged in the protection of our own economic lifelines: in other words - the Atlantic Ocean, the Caribbean, the Arctic Region, the Panama Canal and the Pacific. but also the Indian Ocean).

No more this:

https://viralknot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/US-Army-soldiers.jpg

But a lot of this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Abraham-Lincoln-battlegroup.jpg

https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/styles/desktop__1486_x_614/public/main_images/F22_Pacific.jpg?itok=s_lUwyZ1

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b69b21364dce8fb438b4631-750-498.jpg

Well I dont care much about your envisioned "new atlantic order" (simply wont happen).
The Americans and Brits (the ones who matter) love to have nations between Germany and Russia to keep the division.
That was one of the original reasons to keep NATO in Europe (Germans down, Russians out).

https://www.counterfire.org/articles/history/18584-keep-the-russians-out-the-americans-in-and-the-germans-down-a-potted-bloody-history-of-nato

'
Keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down' - those were the words of Nato’s first Secretary General, Lord Ismay, when explaining the aims behind the new military alliance (as it was then).

[The Lawspeaker]

Well I dont care much about your envisioned "new atlantic order" (simply wont happen).
The Americans and Brits (the ones who matter) love to have nations between Germany and Russia to keep the division.
That was one of the original reasons to keep NATO in Europe (Germans down, Russians out).

https://www.counterfire.org/articles/history/18584-keep-the-russians-out-the-americans-in-and-the-germans-down-a-potted-bloody-history-of-nato

'

Says a communist source. And actually: it's not unlikely that it will as a lot of people here in the West (be it Britain or the Netherlands) are already quite fed up with the East - both in regards to NATO and (particularly) the EU. Even when they agree with some national conservative policies, they consider Eastern Europe to be mooches (at best).

Most countries involved are, traditionally, naval rather than land army powers (Britain, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway - France and Germany too have strong naval traditions and the U.S too once relied more on its navy than the army and kept them traditionally small at the expense of the navy).

[Dragoon]

NATO should be enterly exterminated.

It's people, declared warcriminals, killed and hanged.

It's military bases, nuked out (specially the one in Romania, is has only served to kill innocent civilians in Afganistan)

not to mention those located in the ME (Located in Turkey : served as terrorist base/recruitement/training, Located near Iran : serves as intimidation, Located in SA : serves as nothing)

Once all this is done, then the whole world will start to "breathe" again :D

A lot of paleoconservatives in America also feel NATO is outdated and America should leave (ask them). The Warsaw Pact was a reaction to NATO, and the first fell. Whats the purpose of NATO today?
See my earlier comment.

Given that paleoconservatives are only a small portion of Americans. The Democrats/Liberals voters in America like NATO more than the Republicans/"conservatives" because its internationalist organization.
The matter of elites is different. Both Republican and Democrats still largely support it.

[The Lawspeaker]

A lot of paleoconservatives in America also feel NATO is outdated and America should leave (ask them). The Warsaw Pact was a reaction to NATO, and the first fell. Whats the purpose of NATO today?
See my earlier comment.

Given that paleoconservatives are only a small portion of Americans. The Democrats/Liberals voters in America like NATO more than the Republicans/"conservatives" because its internationalist organization.
The matter of elites is different. Both Republican and Democrats still largely support it.
They saw it that way 10, 20 years ago. The world has changed a bit so I am 1) doing the Russki's a favour (they can then no longer claim that we are a threat but they themselves will be seen as a mortal threat by anyone in the East) 2) doing ourselves a favour: our interests aren't in dying for some far-away hovels but to protect our own economy.
With the East as a buffer, neither is a threat to the other and we can do our own thing.

[Dragoon]

Says a communist source. And actually: it's not unlikely that it will as a lot of people here in the West (be it Britain or the Netherlands) are already quite fed up with the East - both in regards to NATO and (particularly) the EU. Even when they agree with some national conservative policies, they consider Eastern Europe to be mooches (at best).

Most countries involved are, traditionally, naval rather than land army powers (Britain, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway - France and Germany too have strong naval traditions and the U.S too once relied more on its navy than the army and kept them traditionally small at the expense of the navy).

No. You are just attacking the source, instead of the real quote of importance.
There are plenty of non communist websites with the same idea:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/nato-russians-out-americans-germans-down-updated-reversed/
https://www.quora.com/Has-NATO-served-its-goal-of-Keeping-Russia-out-America-in-and-Germany-down


Again:
. The purpose of the new treaty organization founded in 1952, Ismay asserted, was “to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”

[Dragoon]

They saw it that way 10, 20 years ago. The world has changed a bit so I am 1) doing the Russki's a favour (they can then no longer claim that we are a threat but they themselves will be seen as a mortal threat by anyone in the East) 2) doing ourselves a favour: our interests aren't in dying for some far-away hovels but to protect our own economy.
With the East as a buffer, neither is a threat to the other and we can do our own thing.

Your Paranoia with the Russians makes no sense. Ive seen it in dozens of posts.

The Cold War is over, you dont border them (your tiny country is far away). The Eastern European countries do.

Your plane which was shot down by Ukraine or Russia (still unclear who did, regardless of what you think), lost one or two hundred people.

Eastern Europe lots hundreds of thousands.

Fact is Europe has bigger worries than Russians. The Cultural War. Economy for some countries. Mass immigration, etc.

[The Lawspeaker]

No. You are just attacking the source, instead of the real quote of importance.
There are plenty of non communist websites with the same idea:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/nato-russians-out-americans-germans-down-updated-reversed/
https://www.quora.com/Has-NATO-served-its-goal-of-Keeping-Russia-out-America-in-and-Germany-down


Again:

Said one British general. NATO did a piss poor job then as 12 years after WWII, West Germany could muster up to 650.000 men and 15 years after the war had their own armaments industry not just arming their own forces but their allies as well (including the United States in some areas) and by the 1980s they could field up to 4000 tanks . In other fields they have been successful: the Russians were poised to invade during the late 40s and early 50s (you would see a lot of communist agitation in France, Greece, Italy and Belgium at the same time) but they never came. Why ? NATO.
The Americans are still in as well.

[The Lawspeaker]

Your Paranoia with the Russians makes no sense. Ive seen it in dozens of posts.

The Cold War is over, you dont border (your tiny country is far away) them. The Eastern European countries do.

Your plane which was shot down by Ukraine or Russia (still unclear who did, regardless of what you think), lost one or two hundred people.

Eastern Europe lots hundreds of thousands.
Tough luck for Eastern Europe then. Unfortunately for you, I too can point at history and we can draw the line to today. I am going to be brutal with you here: it may have happened to you - let's make sure that it won't happen to us.

[justTosee]

I don't care about your views. In fact: if you hate us so much, then why would you even want to be in NATO ? And why are you so butt-hurt about Western Europeans wanting to go their own way with the ANZACS, Canadians and Americans ? Or maybe it's because you know, deep down, that without us, you're fucked ? :thumb001:

We're "Fucked" ? Where do you get this ?

You might actualyl be so fucking pissed about the truth, that you're ... inventing your own illusion ? :D

Whose imprisoning Europe right now ? US & Nato ? or you "commie" bullshit fanatasies ? :D

I guess both since it only serves Western propaganda :D

[The Lawspeaker]

We're "Fucked" ? Where do you get this ?

You might actualyl be so fucking pissed about the truth, that you're ... inventing your own illusion ? :D

Whose imprisoning Europe right now ? US & Nato ? or you "commie" bullshit fanatasies ? :D

I guess both since it only serves Western propaganda :D

Neither. Our own leftie politicians. Who, funny enough, were trained by those trained by the Russians who supported every major communist and socialist party as late as 1989.

So why are you so pissed about us leaving you to the wolves if you hate us to much ? Answer it. Wouldn't it be more logical to be glad that someone thinks that you shouldn't be in a club that you hate so much ?

[justTosee]

A lot of paleoconservatives in America also feel NATO is outdated and America should leave (ask them). The Warsaw Pact was a reaction to NATO, and the first fell. Whats the purpose of NATO today?
See my earlier comment.

Given that paleoconservatives are only a small portion of Americans. The Democrats/Liberals voters in America like NATO more than the Republicans/"conservatives" because its internationalist organization.
The matter of elites is different. Both Republican and Democrats still largely support it.

I totally agree with you.

Warsaw Pact was made in reaction of creation of NATO, CETO & Co. So technically it's the West's fault if the cold war started. (but again, biaised Western History & propaganda will tell you that Communists started the cold war :D )

And Republicans Or Democrats, their most likely the same "party".

Strangely enough, Democrats are acting very weirdly these days (anti-semitic behavior, anti-Russian propaganda etc ...)

Democrats are like modern day "Nazis": supporting fully the West, funding terrorism, killing innocents.

Only misery comes from them.

[The Lawspeaker]

I totally agree with you.

Warsaw Pact was made in reaction of creation of NATO, CETO & Co. So technically it's the West's fault if the cold war started. (but again, biaised Western History & propaganda will tell you that Communists started the cold war :D )

And Republicans Or Democrats, their most likely the same "party".

Strangely enough, Democrats are acting very weirdly these days (anti-semitic behavior, anti-Russian propaganda etc ...)

Democrats are like modern day "Nazis": supporting fully the West, funding terrorism, killing innocents.

Only misery comes from them.

So because you're an obviously non-intelligent person: you hate a club and someone doesn't want you to be in it and you get angry because someone doesn't want you to be in the club.

You must be some sort of idiot: if you don't want to be in a bloody club and neither do your politicians - have them get out.

[Dragoon]

I totally agree with you.

Warsaw Pact was made in reaction of creation of NATO, CETO & Co. So technically it's the West's fault if the cold war started. (but again, biaised Western History & propaganda will tell you that Communists started the cold war :D )

And Republicans Or Democrats, their most likely the same "party".

Strangely enough, Democrats are acting very weirdly these days (anti-semitic behavior, anti-Russian propaganda etc ...)

Democrats are like modern day "Nazis": supporting fully the West, funding terrorism, killing innocents.

Only misery comes from them.

Well im no Socialist or Commie

but its strange how these Westerners who never experienced being under the Reds whine the most about communism
and what a threat it is. Maybe they think its 1970.

The same with the Holocaust stuff. The amount of people they lost is minimal, yet its the West which makes the most noise about it. Remember da Jews! Makes movie after movie.

[Ice]

Interesting idea. this dissolution will mean that the supremacy of the west will be officially ended. this withdrawal was to be expected. especially after the failed wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

NATO membership does not mean much to Turkey anymore. security issues of the country are ignored. if the Russians and Turks find each other they can fill the vacuum in the east.

[The Lawspeaker]

The thing is: we want to do what benefits us and running the odds of ending up in WWIII because of a bunch of ingrates on the flipside of the Oder-Neisse doesn't benefit us. So, let's do what benefits us and focus on our trade and on our internal relations and setting our own house in order. Eastern Europe is 1) a strategic cluster fuck. 2) a costly distraction.

1) Us having to arm to our teeth to defend people who hate us from other people who hate us is simply bad policy. Bad policy should be reversed.
2) Defending people who hate us from other people who us, is costly and thus takes time and money from things that we should be doing in our own countries: 1. political renewal (further democratisation), 2. getting rid of the migrants 3. creating the conditions where our own families can flourish. 4. improving our own economic conditions by re-industrialising along the Trump model and safe-guarding our own trade routes.

So - looking at it from that point of view: Eastern Europe is a bad idea.

[The Lawspeaker]

Interesting idea. this dissolution will mean that the supremacy of the west will be officially ended. this withdrawal was to be expected. especially after the failed wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

NATO membership does not mean much to Turkey anymore. security issues of the country are ignored. if the Russians and Turks find each other they can fill the vacuum in the east.

And it would also mean that the Turkish migrants should be repatriated. Western defence for Western lands, Western jobs for Western people, Western money for Western families.

[justTosee]

Neither. Our own leftie politicians. Who, funny enough, were trained by those trained by the Russians who supported every major communist and socialist party as late as 1989.

So why are you so pissed about us leaving you to the wolves if you hate us to much ? Answer it. Wouldn't it be more logical to be glad that someone thinks that you shouldn't be in a club that you hate so much ?

The SUBHUMANspeaker, aren't you fully CRUSHED yet ?

Don't you get enough of getting punched everyday, evidently seeing that the West is guilty of everything ?

What proof do you need more ?

"leaving me to the wolfes" ? Whose the wolf here ? Your "European" Western brethren, who supports terrorism and hides behind anti-semitism, or your illusory commie crap ? :D

And where do you see your commies actually ? do you think "communists" are training french islamic terrorists in Nato held basis in Turkey ? :D

Do you think the same commies made suicide attacks in Europe ? :D

You only speak bullshit, to hide and spare the West, unfortunately for you, the evidence is too great.

Just admit it at least :D

[The Lawspeaker]

The SUBHUMANspeaker, aren't you fully CRUSHED yet ?

Don't you get enough of getting punched everyday, evidently seeing that the West is guilty of everything ?

What proof do you need more ?

"leaving me to the wolfes" ? Whose the wolf here ? Your "European" Western brethren, who supports terrorism and hides behind anti-semitism, or your illusory commie crap ? :D

And where do you see your commies actually ? do you think "communists" are training french islamic terrorists in Nato held basis in Turkey ? :D

Do you think the same commies made suicide attacks in Europe ? :D

You only speak bullshit, to hide and spare the West, unfortunately for you, the evidence is too great.

Just admit it at least :D

Yawn. Another Russian troll, I guess. The only wolves around are the Reds who killed over 100 million people and those who defend them today. And since it's the modern day commies that defend those suicide attackers, the Reds are responsible for those murders.

There must be a ton of insecurity from your side that, frankly, people aren't particularly interested in the flipside of the Oder-Neisse. We are far more interested in what's going on here in the West and we follow American and British fashions, literature, films, music, arts (leaving you with no influence there either). That must sting you: that even small countries have more influence than you do !

[justTosee]

The thing is: we want to do what benefits us and running the odds of ending up in WWIII because of a bunch of ingrates on the flipside of the Oder-Neisse doesn't benefit us. So, let's do what benefits us and focus on our trade and on our internal relations and setting our own house in order. Eastern Europe is 1) a strategic cluster fuck. 2) a costly distraction.

1) Us having to arm to our teeth to defend people who hate us from other people who hate us is simply bad policy. Bad policy should be reversed.
2) Defending people who hate us from other people who us, is costly and thus takes time and money from things that we should be doing in our own countries: 1. political renewal (further democratisation), 2. getting rid of the migrants 3. creating the conditions where our own families can flourish. 4. improving our own economic conditions by re-industrialising along the Trump model and safe-guarding our own trade routes.

So - looking at it from that point of view: Eastern Europe is a bad idea.

you seem to forget, The ZEROspeaker, that The West also technically allowed eastern europe to be "engulfed" into the URSS :D

So technicallty, there was no clear will, neither any indication, that URSS wanted to "take" anything. Only aggrement with Nazis and later, with the West Allies made it happen.

And since the fall of Communism, no clear intentions either.

So yeah, take back your bases : we also don't need your money-sucking interest here (it will make you more poor and protect our remaining ressources at the same time ) :D

[The Lawspeaker]

you seem to forget, The ZEROspeaker, that The West also technically allowed eastern europe to be "engulfed" into the URSS :D

So technicallty, there was no clear will, neither any indication, that URSS wanted to "take" anything. Only aggrement with Nazis and later, with the West Allies made it happen.

And since the fall of Communism, no clear intentions either.

So yeah, take back your bases : we also don't need your money-sucking interest here (it will make you more poor and protect our remaining ressources at the same time ) :D

Yalta was indeed a big mistake. I guess that Patton was the only one who got it right in the end. How funny that he ended up dead so suddenly, aye ? Actually.. your resources are of no value as the Chinese would pay far less (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-china-gas-exclusive-idUSKCN0UT1LG) for them than we would. And we wouldn't need your resources because we can get those in Canada and America. That's right: Russia depends on Europe's good graces in that field too: if we're not buying your gas and oil. You're kaput. As for the agreements with the Nazi's ? I take it that you refer to Molotov-Ribbentrop.

[justTosee]

Yawn. Another Russian troll, I guess. The only wolves around are the Reds who killed over 100 million people and those who defend them today. And since it's the modern day commies that defend those suicide attackers, the Reds are responsible for those murders.

There must be a ton of insecurity from your side that, frankly, people aren't particularly interested in the flipside of the Oder-Neisse. We are far more interested in what's going on here in the West and we follow American and British fashions, literature, films, music, arts (leaving you with no influence there either). That must sting you: that even small countries have more influence than you do !

Seems like CRUSHED LOWspeaker is so fucking dead, that he sees "red" everywhere :D

Has he been hold in a psychiatric asylium for paranoia, schyzophrenia & Co lately ? because whatever "butthurt" wall he hits, it's the commies fault :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Seems like CRUSHED LOWspeaker is so fucking dead, that he sees "red" everywhere :D

Has he been hold in a psychiatric asylium for paranoia, schyzophrenia & Co lately ? because whatever "butthurt" wall he hits, it's the commies fault :D

Funny how you say crushed while each time I can give you examples of you shouting out empty propaganda. The fact is that Europe can buy its gas and oil from America and Canada. That we haven't done so YET has two reasons: our policymakers aren't particularly smart (and are on your payroll - Schroeder and Merkel come to mind) and the U.S hasn't given the green light for exports yet but Trump seems to be pushing for that one so this could get interesting. In fact: this (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/25/europe-will-import-more-us-natural-gas-trump-and-juncker-say.html) dependency (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/russia-and-the-us-battling-over-europes-gas-market.html) is already changing. What would that mean ? That Russia's economy will crash and burn before 2021. Why ? Because gas and oil prices are already low (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/01/01/gas-prices-forecast-lower-2019/2415022002/) (while this may be some bad news for the Dutch and Norwegian economies - we don't rely on exports.. Russia on the other hand does almost entirely rely on exporting resources) and your economy is in the shitter (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-economy/russia-faces-higher-inflation-economic-slowdown-in-2019-reuters-poll-idUSKCN1OQ0K9).

[justTosee]

Yalta was indeed a big mistake. I guess that Patton was the only one who got it right in the end. How funny that he ended up dead so suddenly, aye ? Actually.. your resources are of no value as the Chinese would pay far less (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-china-gas-exclusive-idUSKCN0UT1LG) for them than we would. And we wouldn't need your resources because we can get those in Canada and America. That's right: Russia depends on Europe's good graces in that field too: if we're not buying your gas and oil. You're kaput. As for the agreements with the Nazi's ? I take it that you refer to Molotov-Ribbentrop.

Patton was subhuman who whould have been shot dead for his ideas :D luckely he was never taken seriously :D had it been, there would have been WWIII already. You're not even serious in your own arguments :D

Same with that retard McCarthy, what for an absolute Idiot :D

And you're so wrong on anything about Russia : Russia has its own oil, gas for decades, it even can buy it from other neighbouring asian countries :D but you're just the usual Western crappy low sub-nitellectual backwarded man who keeps repeating the same lies over and over.

That's why i said "crushed" : Even when the West clearly supports Islamic terrorists, you blame "Russian propaganda" :D

you kept saying about "wolfes", but the only wolfes here are the Western countries, clearly fucking things up with everything : Nato, Terrorism, the world :D

Why don't you just admit you got nothing to say ? And you're only arguments are returning everything to "commies" fault. :D

[justTosee]

Oh yeah and the LOWspeaker, keep whatever litterature, culture you're hooked upon to : i've seen that the "West" is clearly more "cultural" than the rest of Europe. Not that is is "bad", but "culture, art and music" don't cope well with "logic" and "reasoning. Maybe that's where all their Low reasoning comes from, and yours as well :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Patton was subhuman who whould have been shot dead for his ideas :D luckely he was never taken seriously :D had it been, there would have been WWIII already. You're not even serious in your own arguments :D

Same with that retard McCarthy, what for an absolute Idiot :D

And you're so wrong on anything about Russia : Russia has its own oil, gas for decades, it even can buy it from other neighbouring asian countries :D but you're just the usual Western crappy low sub-nitellectual backwarded man who keeps repeating the same lies over and over.

That's why i said "crushed" : Even when the West clearly supports Islamic terrorists, you blame "Russian propaganda" :D

you kept saying about "wolfes", but the only wolfes here are the Western countries, clearly fucking things up with everything : Nato, Terrorism, the world :D

Why don't you just admit you got nothing to say ? And you're only arguments are returning everything to "commies" fault. :D

Yawn. The fact is that you people never advanced beyond krokodil and vodka. Deal with it.

[justTosee]

Butthurt LOWspeaker who keeps voting me down :D

You shoudn't blame yourself, but Western policies, at least admit it, for your own sake and "honor" :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Butthurt LOWspeaker who keeps voting me down :D

You shoudn't blame yourself, but Western policies, at least admit it, for your own sake and "honor" :D

Because you're just a dumb idiot that has nothing to offer to anyone. You even bitch and moan when people are against looking East and engaging with Eastern Europe. You would bitch just as hard if people were in favour of it. You just bitch, bitch, bitch like the cyka you are.

[justTosee]

retard keeps thinking I'm russian :D

As i said, he CLEARLY has some mental trouble issues when it comes with argumenting :D

PS: I'm not even "eastern looking by definition", I'm more latin eastern (balkan looking) :D

but you knew that already, heh ? that's why you bitched so much (bot why hatin' uz) :D

[The Lawspeaker]

retard keeps thinking I'm russian :D

As i said, he CLEARLY has some mental trouble issues when it comes with argumenting :D

PS: I'm not even "eastern looking by definition", I'm more latin eastern (balkan looking) :D

but you knew that already, heh ? that's why you bitched so much (bot why hatin' uz) :D
LOL. You gave yourself away by using the same unfunny "nicknames" a banned Russian member had been using. You also use the same posting style and even the same emoticons. Nice try, big fail - comrade Trollski.

[Nykyus]

Russia is the second strongest military power in the World:
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=russia
You show the frames of the Soviet doctrine West 81. Then the USSR was really strong. Here is a more modern video "West-81" VS "West-2017"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqXyWSuvr5s
And the comments under this video:
- This is a miserable parody of the Great USSR!
- Well, yes, modern capitalist Russia, it is never a communist Soviet Union! What is there to compare? Today, there remains only a faint shadow of former power ...
- We're sorry, Lenin, we are all fucked up.
- Russia is not even close to the former great Soviet Union.
- 2017 sucks