Aromanian Haplogroups

[Bosniensis]

Latin speaking populace of Balkans.

In 1850 Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia had about 200.000+ Latin speakers.

Let's check their Haplogroups:

Kruševo Aromanians (Macedonia - ex-Serbia) sample size 43:

27.9% R1b
20.9% I2a1b cts 10228
11.6% R1a
20.9% E1b V13
11.6% J (All J)
7% G (All G)


Sample population Sample size R1b R1a I E1b1b E1b1a J G N T L
Aromanians from Dukas, Albania[68] 39 2.6 2.6 17.9 17.9 0.0 48.7 10.3 0.0 0.0 0.0
Aromanians from Andon Poçi, Albania[68] 19 36.8 0.0 42.1 15.8 0.0 5.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Aromanians from Kruševo, Macedonia[68] 43 27.9 11.6 20.9 20.9 0.0 11.6 7.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Aromanians from Štip, Macedonia[68] 65 23.1 21.5 16.9 18.5 0.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Aromanians in Romania[68] 42 23.8 2.4 19.0 7.1 0.0 33.3 0.0 — — —


Their haplogroups also show us that R1b, I2a1, E1b were present on Balkans in 0 A.D.

[Livin]

I am not sure but I think some EV13 and r1b clades are increased from them.

[Bosniensis]

I am not sure but I think some EV13 and r1b clades are increased from them.

But 20% I2 ... you can't find I2a1b anywhere but in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia.... Sardinia has I2a1a, France had I2a2 I think.

Do you think that I2 are Slavic bastards? xD Cause I don't.

These people came "home" after serving in Northern Fronts .

R1b could be German soldiers in Roman Legions.

[Jana]

Fucking liar, there were never any Aromanian speakers in Croatia, ever. And some Vlach groups have more R1a than other markers, does it make it native ? :laugh:

I hate those dirty wog Balkanites such as yourself, trying to associate our real South Slavs with you.

[Tauromachos]

But 20% I2 ... you can't find I2a1b anywhere but in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia.... Sardinia has I2a1a, France had I2a2 I think.

Do you think that I2 are Slavic bastards? xD Cause I don't.

These people came "home" after serving in Northern Fronts .

R1b could be German soldiers in Roman Legions.

You are absolutely clueless

Vlachs don't ony have these haplogroups but also higher J2 than Slavs

Read here:"One fourth of the Vlach people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs) (isolated communities of Romance language speakers in the Balkans) belong to J2, considerably more than the average of Macedonia and northern Greece where they live. This, combined to the fact that they speak a language descended from Latin, suggests that they could have a greater part of Roman (or at least Italian) ancestry than other ethnic groups in the Balkans."

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

[Bosniensis]

Fucking liar, there were never any Aromanian speakers in Croatia, ever. And some Vlach groups have more R1a than other marker, does it make it native ? :laugh:

I hate those dirty wog Balkanites such as yourself, trying to associate our real South Slavs with you.

Well R1a people as Greeks called them "Scythians" lived beyond Danube, some of them probably became part of those ancient communities of Serbia and Bosnia, why not?

If R1b participated in Gaul, then why wouldn't R1a be part of ancient western balkan community?

[Bosniensis]

You are absolutely clueless

Vlachs don't ony have these haplogroups but also higher J2 than Slavs

Read here:"One fourth of the Vlach people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs) (isolated communities of Romance language speakers in the Balkans) belong to J2, considerably more than the average of Macedonia and northern Greece where they live. This, combined to the fact that they speak a language descended from Latin, suggests that they could have a greater part of Roman (or at least Italian) ancestry than other ethnic groups in the Balkans."

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

Take it easy m8 here is the study:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians


Tab Genetic studies.

I did not invent those numbers.

[Jana]

Well R1a people as Greeks called them "Scythians" lived beyond Danube, some of them probably became part of those ancient communities of Serbia and Bosnia, why not?

If R1b participated in Gaul, then why wouldn't R1a be part of ancient western balkan community?

Blablabla...only R1a that was found in ancient Balkans was Z93 in Bulgaria, which is Iranic branch and less than 1% today.
99% of R1a in Balkans is Slavic or other medieval barbarian heritage.

[Pribislav]

Blablabla...only R1a that was found in ancient Balkans was Z93 in Bulgaria, which is Iranic branch and less than 1% today.
99% of R1a in Balkans is Slavic or other medieval barbarian heritage.

One guy from western Macedonia is R1a-M198>YP1051, he belong to Mijaks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks

His haplogroup is most likely pre-Slavic.

[Pribislav]

Цинцари Румунија (Aromanians from Romania), Цинцари Штип (Aromanians from Štip), Цинцари Крушево (Aromanians from Kruševo), Цинцари Дукаси (Aromanians from Dukas), Цинцари Андон Поци (Aromanians from Andon Poçi), Укупно (total). Total sample is 207.
https://i.postimg.cc/J0q49gjv/cincari-statistika.png

[Bosniensis]

One guy from western Macedonia is R1a-M198>YP1051, he belong to Mijaks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks

His haplogroup is most likely pre-Slavic.

Mijaks are Vlachs

R1a, R1b, I2a are all Aromanian haplogroups where R1a was more present in Dacia while R1b and I2a on Balkans.

[Pribislav]

Mijaks are Vlachs

R1a, R1b, I2a are all Aromanian haplogroups where R1a was more present in Dacia while R1b and I2a on Balkans.

Among Aromanians R1b, J2 and E1b are stronger than I2a, live with it Sinan!

[Ryuk]

Fucking liar, there were never any Aromanian speakers in Croatia

but the istro-Romanian language was spoken on the Adriatic coast of Croatia.Maybe they were Vlach to the census.

Anyway, I don't think Vlach has much of a Slavic effect.As a result, there was an isolated nomadic life in the mountains, and minorities living under the dominant majority make endogamy to protect themselves from assimilation.

[Bosniensis]

Among Aromanians R1b, J2 and E1b are stronger than I2a, live with it Sinan!

As far as I am informed, there isn't stronger Paleo-Balkan haplogroup than I2

Keep in mind that J2 and E1b came to live here when I2 people were already established so it's stupid to believe that I2 in Romania and among Aromanians are some kind of Steppe People (Slavs).

I2 is primary Vlach haplogroup who live here for thousands of years.

[Pribislav]

As far as I am informed, there isn't stronger Paleo-Balkan haplogroup than I2

Keep in mind that J2 and E1b came to live here when I2 people were already established so it's stupid to believe that I2 in Romania and among Aromanians are some kind of Steppe People (Slavs).

I2 is primary Vlach haplogroup who live here for thousands of years.

Bullshit!

Aromanian Vlachs on average have

21,25% R1b (eastern 17,87%, western 3,38%)

16,43% E1b (E-V13 14,98%, E-V22 0,97%, E-M81 0,48%)

15,46% J2b (M241 14,98%, M205 0,48%)

14,98% I2a-Din

10,14% R1a
https://i.postimg.cc/J0q49gjv/cincari-statistika.png


What do think about only 15% I2a-Din among Aromanian Vlachs? :coffee:

[Bosniensis]

Bullshit!

Aromanian Vlachs on average have

21,25% R1b (eastern 17,87%, western 3,38%)

16,43% E1b (E-V13 14,98%, E-V22 0,97%, E-M81 0,48%)

15,46% J2b (M241 14,98%, M205 0,48%)

14,98% I2a-Din

10,14% R1a
https://i.postimg.cc/J0q49gjv/cincari-statistika.png


What do think about only 15% I2a-Din among Aromanian Vlachs? :coffee:

Depending on Region!

You just pick the region you like and you WIN.

Of course that those closer to Greece and Anatolia will have More J2 while those northern will have more I2

[Pribislav]

Depending on Region!

You just pick the region you like and you WIN.

Of course that those closer to Greece and Anatolia will have More J2 while those northern will have more I2

I talking about average.

I2a-Din is the highest among Aromanins from Andon Poçi in southern Albania, but sample is only 19.

J2b is the highest among Aromanians from Dukas in Albania 46,15% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qendër_Dukas

R1b is the highest among Aromanians from Kruševo 27,9% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruševo

R1a is the highest among Aromanians from Štip 22,41% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Štip


Aromanians which are located most eastern and the closest to Anatiolia (Štip) have the most R1a, and Aromanians which are located most western (Dukas) have the highest J2b.

[Pribislav]

@ Bosniensis

31,39% Aromanians are R1 (R1b 21,25%, R1a 10,14%).

Which means that almost 1/3 of them are descendants of Scythian barbarians, live with it! :)

[Bosniensis]

I talking about average.

I2a-Din is the highest among Aromanins from Andon Poçi in southern Albania, but sample is only 19.

J2b is the highest among Aromanians from Dukas in Albania 46,15% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qendër_Dukas

R1b is the highest among Aromanians from Kruševo 27,9% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruševo

R1a is the highest among Aromanians from Štip 22,41% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Štip


Aromanians which are located most eastern and the closest to Anatiolia (Štip) have the most R1a, and Aromanians which are located most western (Dukas) have the highest J2b.

Kruševo R1b and I2a1 are "on par" they are both around 20% and that's expected.

That is AMAZING!

R1b and I2 are major Lepenski Vir and Vinča Haplogroups

That shows that Vlachs have Genetic continuity since Very long time, now assimilated into various Balkan nations and survived as minor communities (those who refused assimilation or are not yet assimilated).

R1a among the Vlachs is also present but only in Dacia mostly.

[Bosniensis]

@ Bosniensis

31,39% Aromanians are R1 (R1b 21,25%, R1a 10,14%).

Which means that almost 1/3 of them are descendants of Scythian barbarians, live with it! :)

R1b was present in Gaul alongside I2

Lepenski Vir, Vinca R1b and I2

R1a was present only in Dacia mostly.

That shows us that we are predominantly Paleo-Balkan people.

[Pribislav]

Kruševo R1b and I2a1 are "on par" they are both around 20% and that's expected.

That is AMAZING!

R1b and I2 are major Lepenski Vir and Vinča Haplogroups

That shows that Vlachs have Genetic continuity since Very long time, now assimilated into various Balkan nations and survived as minor communities (those who refused assimilation or are not yet assimilated).

R1a among the Vlachs is also present but only in Dacia mostly.

Wrong.

Kruševo Aromanians are 18,6% I2a-Din, and 27,9% R1b (eastern brances 18,6% + western brances 9,3%).

[Bosniensis]

Wrong.

Kruševo Aromanians are 18,6% I2a-Din, and 27,9% R1b (eastern brances 18,6% + western brances 9,3%).

What do you wanna say?

that I2 came from Moscow?

[Pribislav]

What do you wanna say?

that I2 came from Moscow?

I want to say that Aromanians have more R1b than I2a.

Until a couple a days ago you claim that R1b and R1a are non-European Asiatic barbarians, which means that Aromanians are more Asiatic R1 barbarians than real Vlachs I2a. :)

[Bosniensis]

I want to say that Aromanians have more R1b than I2a.
Until a couple a days aga you claim that R1b and R1a are non-European Asiatic barbarians, which means that Aromanians are more Asiatic R1 barbarians than real Vlachs U2a. :)

Well I still claim that I2 is the oldest European and Balkan haplogroup and that's confirmed by all geneticists.

We first colonized Balkan and Europe then others Came.

R1b, J2, E1b, R1a came AFTER I2... many years after I2.

Also most of R1b lived in Eastern Europe and Germany before they became a majority in Europe.

Keep in mind that I2 was major haplogroup in Spain and France.

Therefore It is reasonable to connect major R1b movements to Barbarian invasions, that being said... that doesn't mean they were not present in Spain, Gaul, Balkans before that.

[Aspirin]

Fucking liar, there were never any Aromanian speakers in Croatia, ever. And some Vlach groups have more R1a than other markers, does it make it native ? :laugh:

I hate those dirty wog Balkanites such as yourself, trying to associate our real South Slavs with you.

Please, explain this:

The term Vlachs (Croatian: Vlasi) was initially used in medieval Croatian and Venetian history for a Romance-speaking pastoralist community, called "Vlachs" and "Morlachs", inhabiting the mountains and lands of the Croatian Kingdom and the Republic of Venice (Venetian Dalmatia) from the early 14th century. By the end of the 15th century they were highly assimilated with the Slavs and lost their language or were at least bilingual, while some communities managed to preserve and continue to speak their language (Istro-Romanians).

[Bosniensis]

Please, explain this:

Western Roman Empire was shut down in Roman Dalmatia (Bosnia + Significant portion of Croatia) in 480 A.D. (Julius Nepos)

How does she think that Julius Nepos was the only Latin in Dalmatia? or there were hundreds of thousands Romans living there

[Jana]

Please, explain this:

Istro-Romanians are not Aromanians from Balkans, they are medieval Romanians from Transylvania and they speak arhaic Romanian language.
Morlachs were Slavic speakers (mostly orthodox Serbs and some Catholic Croats) who lived sheperd lifestyle, but never Romance.

Unlike southern Balkans Croatia never had contact with Aromanian population.

[Jana]

Istro Romanians
https://www.jutarnji.hr/migration_catalog/istrorumunjski/2290736/ALTERNATES/LANDSCAPE_1180/istrorumunjski
http://istro-romanian.com/news/images/07_0906cirebire2.jpg
http://istro-romanian.com/news/images/07_0906cirebire3.jpg

As you can see they don't look like Balkan Vlachs at all, but mostly norid/dinaric and alpine/Borreby with lot of light eyes. Their villages are close to my city.
In Transylvania such faces are easy to find.

[Aspirin]

Istro-Romanians are not Aromanians from Balkans, they are medieval Romanians from Transylvania and they speak arhaic Romanian language.
Morlachs were Slavic speakers (mostly orthodox Serbs and some Catholic Croats) who lived sheperd lifestyle, but never Romance.

Unlike southern Balkans Croatia never had contact with Aromanian population.

If a slavic group of people have shepherd lifestyle, and practice transhumance, especially in the Balkans, then with highly probability on the origin they are vlachs, no matter if they forgot their native language. This type of lifestyle is not slavic at all. Same thing happened with vlachs who lived in Western Ukraine, South Poland, Slovakia and Eastern Czech (Moravia Region), they was assimilated very early, in XIV-XVI centuries, and lost their identity. Vlachs, no matter where they lived, in Balkans, or in such North places like Moravia, they always had a very monolithic culture and lifestyle.


As you can see they don't look like Balkan Vlachs at all, but mostly norid/dinaric and alpine/Borreby with lot of light eyes. Their villages are close to my city.
In Transylvania such faces are easy to find.

Dinaric, alpine, and CM are most common phenotypes between vlachs since Early Middle Ages, no matter where they lived, in Balkans, or in more northern places.

[Jana]

If a slavic group of people have shepherd lifestyle, and practice transhumance, especially in the Balkans, then with highly probability on the origin they are vlachs, no matter if they forgot their native language. This type of lifestyle is not slavic at all. Same thing happened with vlachs who lived in Western Ukraine, South Poland, Slovakia and Eastern Czech (Moravia Region), they was assimilated very early, in XIV-XVI centuries, and lost their identity. Vlachs, no matter where they lived, in Balkans, or in such North places like Moravia, they always had a very monolithic culture and lifestyle.

People adopt to new surroundings. Dalmatia and Herzegovina are highly harsh and infertile regions with thin soil where agriculture is impossible except in few microlocations.
It has low vegetation and mostly stone. They has better soil in middle ages but it i still far from one Ukraine.
http://viadinarica.hr/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/HR-W-21m.jpg
http://narodni.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/razvoj-i-stanje-dalmatinske-zagore.jpg
http://dalmatia.hr/discover/media/k2/items/cache/938a195f8810cb9b31c6503221891897_XL.jpg
http://emtb.pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/DSC9146.jpg

Another proof how newcomers adjusted to new surroundings are early medieval Croatian churches, which are Slavic without any doubt. White Croats in Ukraine and Poland built in wood, but in Dalmatia wood is scarce so they switched to stone.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Crkva_sv._Kri%C5%BEa_u_Ninu_2010.jpg
http://www.rezerviraj.hr/slike/clanci/8/000crkva-sveto-nikole--Ajd28pg.jpg


Dinaric, alpine, and CM are most common phenotypes between vlachs since Early Middle Ages, no matter where they lived, in Balkans, or in more northern places.
If you look how Balkan Vlachs look like, they have very high mediterranid component which is absent in Istro-Romanians. They are also darker and more gracile in features.

[Kelmendasi]

There are some Vlachs/Aromanians tested in the Albanian Ydna project. Obviously they are from Albania, specifically the south.
1. J2a>M92>Z515
2. I2a2a-M223
3. J2b1-M205
4. G2a>L140>U1

Aromanians from Dukasi in Albania were 48.7% J2, 17.9% E1b1b and 17.9% I. The ones from Adnon Poci were 42.1% I, 36.8% R1b and 15.8% E1b1b.

[Pribislav]

There are some Vlachs/Aromanians tested in the Albanian Ydna project. Obviously they are from Albania, specifically the south.
1. J2a>M92>Z515
2. I2a2a-M223
3. J2b1-M205
4. G2a>L140>U1

Aromanians from Dukasi in Albania were 48.7% J2, 17.9% E1b1b and 17.9% I. The ones from Adnon Poci were 42.1% I, 36.8% R1b and 15.8% E1b1b.

I2a among Aromanians from Andon Poci is 42,11%, but keep in mind that sample for Aromanians from Andon Poci is only 19.
Цинцари Андон Поци - Aromanians from Andon Poci
https://i.postimg.cc/J0q49gjv/cincari-statistika.png

I am 100% sure that I2a among Aromanians from Andon Poci on the larger sample would fall rapidly.

R1b among Aromanians from Andon Poci on the sample 19 is 36,84% all eastern branches.

[Kelmendasi]

New Aromanian results from southern Albania:
1. G1-M342 - Dukas, Fier, Albania
2. I2a1b-CTS10228 - Kolonje, Albania

Not Aromanian but a Macedonian from Liqenas in Korca tested and he belongs to I2a2a-Y9443.

[Wrong]

46.15% J2b2 in a sample size of 31? That's crazy-high.

Probably falls down to 25-30% in a stable sample size of 1000+.

[xripkan]

There are some Vlachs/Aromanians tested in the Albanian Ydna project. Obviously they are from Albania, specifically the south.
1. J2a>M92>Z515
2. I2a2a-M223
3. J2b1-M205
4. G2a>L140>U1

Aromanians from Dukasi in Albania were 48.7% J2, 17.9% E1b1b and 17.9% I. The ones from Adnon Poci were 42.1% I, 36.8% R1b and 15.8% E1b1b.
Do you know if these J2 haplogroups from Dukasi are of Roman/Italian ancestry?