Italians, Jews, Greeks ranked from least/most Near Eastern and North African genetically should be..

[Sikeliot]

something like this.

LEAST: North Italy (Piedmont, Liguria, Veneto, etc)
Northern Greece (Macedonia, Thessaly, Thrace, Epirus)
Central Italy (Tuscany, Lazio, Marche)
Peloponnese
SE Sicily, Mani and Tsakonia
Central-South Italy (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia) and Trapani
Campania, Western Crete and Cyclades Islands
North Aegean Islands and Dodecanese*
West/Central Sicily, Central/Eastern Crete, Malta, and Ashkenazim
Kalymnos/Rhodes*
NE Sicily/Calabria
Sephardim
Cypriots
MOST: North African and Mizrahi Jews

After analyzing extensively many DNA results I think this is about right.

[Tooting Carmen]

Northern Greece more northern than Central Italy? SE Sicily more northern than Abruzzo and Molise?

[Sikeliot]

Northern Greece more northern than Central Italy? SE Sicily more northern than Abruzzo and Molise?

Yes to both. SE Sicily has absorbed some NE European/Slavic DNA likely from Greece, and while Central Italy is more "western" than northern Greece, they also have less Northern European.

[Phenix]

Seems right, I would only question the SE Sicily rank over Abruzzo and Molise.

[Tauromachos]

Seems right, I would only question the SE Sicily rank over Abruzzo and Molise.

Seems weird to me as well considering that North Greeks score closer to Abruzzo than to SE Sicily

[Phenix]

Seems weird to me as well considering that North Greeks score closer to Abruzzo than to SE Sicily

Let's see what explications Sikeliot can offer us.

[Sikeliot]

Seems right, I would only question the SE Sicily rank over Abruzzo and Molise.

The southeast of Sicily has the least Near Eastern input in southern Italy, along with Apulia and additionally has the most evidence of recent (Slavic-admixed) Greek input.

[Phenix]

The southeast of Sicily has the least Near Eastern input in southern Italy, along with Apulia and additionally has the most evidence of recent (Slavic-admixed) Greek input.

Never heard of this, can you demonstrate with some facts, I thought Sicily was equally MENA influenced, and why would Greeks bring with them Slavic admixture unless they are from North Mainland which less probable than Islanders?

[Sikeliot]

Never heard of this, can you demonstrate with some facts, I thought Sicily was equally MENA influenced, and why would Greeks bring with them Slavic admixture unless they are from North Mainland which less probable than Islanders?

All mainland Greek regions have more NE European than southern Italy overall, but Syracuse was an important center for Greek settlement even after Greece had received Slavic input. So any Greek settlement from the mainland after a certain time period would increase the amount of NE European in Sicily.

As for the Near Eastern, it is lower in southeastern Sicily.

[Phenix]

All mainland Greek regions have more NE European than southern Italy overall, but Syracuse was an important center for Greek settlement even after Greece had received Slavic input. So any Greek settlement from the mainland after a certain time period would increase the amount of NE European in Sicily.

As for the Near Eastern, it is lower in southeastern Sicily.

I know about Slavic input in mainland Greece, but how could it come to Sicily if most of the Greek settlers were Islanders, and one thing intrigues more: Arabs initiated their conquest at Syracuse, so why would it be less MENA than other parts of Sicily like Palermo?

[Sikeliot]

I know about Slavic input in mainland Greece, but how could it come to Sicily if most of the Greek settlers were Islanders, and one thing intrigues more: Arabs initiated their conquest at Syracuse, so why would it be less MENA than other parts of Sicily like Palermo?

Because I am not thinking of ancient Greek settlers, I mean Greeks from the last 1000 years.

Arabs initiated their conquest of Sicily in the southwest of the island, places like Agrigento and Trapani. Syracuse remained consistently under Byzantine rule.

[Phenix]

Because I am not thinking of ancient Greek settlers, I mean Greeks from the last 1000 years.

Arabs initiated their conquest of Sicily in the southwest of the island, places like Agrigento and Trapani. Syracuse remained consistently under Byzantine rule.

It was under Aghlabid rule for more than 150 years.

[Sikeliot]

It was under Aghlabid rule for more than 150 years.

But it didn't have Phoenician or Carthaginian input earlier than that, so that was one wave of MENA input they did not receive.

[Phenix]

But it didn't have Phoenician or Carthaginian input earlier than that, so that was one wave of MENA input they did not receive.

Many razzias and temporary presence occured in the 8th century before its conquest in the late 9th century.
In fact the whole Sicilian coast was a Phoenician playground.

[Sikeliot]

Many razzias and temporary presence occured in the 8th century before its conquest in the late 9th century.

I do think though that basic knowledge of Sicilian history would explain that there is going to be more Levantine and Berber input in places like Agrigento or Palermo, rather than in Syracuse or Enna. But obviously all Sicilians have *some*.

[Phenix]

I do think though that basic knowledge of Sicilian history would explain that there is going to be more Levantine and Berber input in places like Agrigento or Palermo, rather than in Syracuse or Enna. But obviously all Sicilians have *some*.

I can agree with that, Palermo is somehow special in the eyes of Semitic people. :swl
Even Punic had more presence there than the rest of the island.

[Inquizzzitor]

Not to mention that the Near Eastern input is not exclusively or even predominantly derived from the period of Arab rule. The Arabs did not have near the genetic impact required to account for the proportion of Near Eastern DNA in Sicilians, which, even the excluding Caucusus/West Asia input, is a significant component of the Sicilian DNA profile.

[Sikeliot]

Not to mention that the Near Eastern input is not exclusively or even predominantly derived from the period of Arab rule. The Arabs did not have near the genetic impact required to account for the proportion of Near Eastern DNA in Sicilians, which, even the excluding Caucusus/West Asia input, is a significant component of the Sicilian DNA profile.

Much of it is probably from Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and Jews, with the Arab conquest only contributing a minority of the input.

[Tauromachos]

Not to mention that the Near Eastern input is not exclusively or even predominantly derived from the period of Arab rule. The Arabs did not have near the genetic impact required to account for the proportion of Near Eastern DNA in Sicilians, which, even the excluding Caucusus/West Asia input, is a significant component of the Sicilian DNA profile.

Near Eastern input in Sicily is overated not everywhere the same and not the most important influence

Near Eastern the majority of it comes from Phoenician settlers

Sicilians have more Greek Ancestry from the Ancient Greeks who settled there than Near Eastern


Also Greek cultural impact and contribution to Sicilian civilization is bigger than Phoencian.

There is not one Philosopher or Mathematician coming from the Phoenician dominated parts of Sicily at the time they were under
Phoenician rule comparable to the ones coming from the Greek settlements of the Island.

[arkas]

If you were to seperate North African and Near Eastern influence into two lists, wouldn't the ranking be different?

Also, where do Sardinians rank on the list?

[guezet]

something like this.

LEAST: North Italy (Piedmont, Liguria, Veneto, etc)
Northern Greece (Macedonia, Thessaly, Thrace, Epirus)
Central Italy (Tuscany, Lazio, Marche)
Peloponnese
SE Sicily, Mani and Tsakonia
Central-South Italy (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia) and Trapani
Campania, Western Crete and Cyclades Islands
North Aegean Islands and Dodecanese*
West/Central Sicily, Central/Eastern Crete, Malta, and Ashkenazim
Kalymnos/Rhodes*
NE Sicily/Calabria
Sephardim
Cypriots
MOST: North African and Mizrahi Jews

After analyzing extensively many DNA results I think this is about right.

This below looks quite accurate.

https://image.ibb.co/fz0Qnz/Euro_PCA.jpg



Yes to both. SE Sicily has absorbed some NE European/Slavic DNA likely from Greece, and while Central Italy is more "western" than northern Greece, they also have less Northern European.


They have more Northwestern European though.

[guezet]

Northern Greece more northern than Central Italy? SE Sicily more northern than Abruzzo and Molise?

Answer to your questions.

https://image.ibb.co/kJVR30/EURO-PCA.jpg

[kaltar]

based on ph2ter's PCA it's definitely more something like this

North Italy
Central Italy - Albanians - Northern Greece
Peloponnese - Central Greece
South Italy (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia)
South Italy (Campania, Sicily and Calabria)
Ashkenazim
Greek Crete, Aegean Islands and Dodecanese
Sephardim
Cypriots


https://i.imgur.com/Gk4pYrq.jpg

[Sikeliot]

based on ph2ter's PCA it's definitely more something like this

North Italy
Central Italy - Albanians - Northern Greece
Peloponnese - Central Greece
South Italy (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia)
South Italy (Campania, Sicily and Calabria)
Ashkenazim
Greek Crete, Aegean Islands and Dodecanese
Sephardim
Cypriots


https://i.imgur.com/Gk4pYrq.jpg

Calabrians are closer to Dodecanese in the above plot and the other Aegean islands are varied. My ranking appears correct. Or at least Calabria/Dodecanese are on par.

Where I disagree is I do not find most north aegeans any more Near Eastern than Campania. I can show this with Gedmatch. Crete also on that plot is less MENA than Calabria, Dodecanese and Sicily as are many north Aegeans and Cyclades.

Much of Messina and some Palermo plot with Calabria and Dodecanese too.

I stand by my opinion.

[Tooting Carmen]

Did you receive my other threads Sikeliot?

[FinalFlash]

How much NA influence to South Euros even have? I think other than Iberians, other south Euros have virtually none of it.

And by Near Eastern, I assume you mean SW Asian, right?

[Tooting Carmen]

How much NA influence to South Euros even have? I think other than Iberians, other south Euros have virtually none of it.

And by Near Eastern, I assume you mean SW Asian, right?

Sicilians and Maltese also have a little bit of NA admixture. Near Eastern usually means Levantine.

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians and Maltese also have a little bit of NA admixture. Near Eastern usually means Levantine.

This.

Anyway here are some results. To me it looks like Calabrians and Dodecanese, along with the northeast corner of Sicily, are more Near Eastern than are other south Italians and Aegean islanders.

Some examples using Eurogenes K15 of the most Near Eastern results I have. In light of that I have revised the list to what may be more appropriate, from least to most:

North Italy
Northern Greece
Central Italy
Peloponnese
Abruzzo, Mani and Tsakonia
Apulia, SE Sicily, and Trapani
Campania and Cyclades Islands
North Aegean Islands
Crete and West-Central Sicily
NE Sicily, Calabria, and Dodecanese
Sephardim
Cypriots
North African and Mizrahi Jews


Messina, NE Sicily:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.84
2 Atlantic 19
3 West_Asian 17.14
4 West_Med 15.76
5 Red_Sea 6.64
6 Baltic 5.11
7 North_Sea 2.29
8 Northeast_African 2.14
9 Sub-Saharan 0.46
10 Southeast_Asian 0.32
11 Eastern_Euro 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 7.55
2 South_Italian 7.76
3 East_Sicilian 9.34
4 Italian_Jewish 9.67
5 Algerian_Jewish 9.74
6 West_Sicilian 9.81
7 Central_Greek 10.05
8 Italian_Abruzzo 10.38
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.5
10 Ashkenazi 11.87
11 Greek 13.35
12 Cyprian 13.45
13 Tuscan 15.55
14 Libyan_Jewish 15.88
15 Lebanese_Muslim 16.23
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.59
17 Syrian 17.64
18 Turkish 17.76
19 Samaritan 19.88
20 Jordanian 20.43

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.9% Cyprian + 24.1% French_Basque @ 5.41
2 71.7% Lebanese_Muslim + 28.3% French_Basque @ 5.46
3 65.6% Lebanese_Christian + 34.4% French_Basque @ 6.28
4 63.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 36.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.41
5 68.6% Cyprian + 31.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.42
6 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.49
7 70.6% Cyprian + 29.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.51
8 70.1% Cyprian + 29.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.58
9 91.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.9% North_Ossetian @ 6.59
10 66.9% Lebanese_Muslim + 33.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.63
11 91.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.3% French_Basque @ 6.69
12 91% Sephardic_Jewish + 9% Kabardin @ 6.71
13 91% Sephardic_Jewish + 9% Balkar @ 6.71
14 91.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.9% Adygei @ 6.72
15 77.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 22.9% Greek @ 6.73
16 73.2% Cyprian + 26.8% Southwest_French @ 6.74
17 53.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 46.9% South_Italian @ 6.74
18 63.3% Kurdish_Jewish + 36.7% French_Basque @ 6.76
19 65.1% Lebanese_Muslim + 34.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.76
20 70.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 29.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 6.78



Messina, NE Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.32
2 West_Med 20.65
3 West_Asian 15.86
4 Atlantic 10.76
5 North_Sea 6.78
6 Red_Sea 5.02
7 Baltic 4.29
8 Southeast_Asian 1.62
9 Northeast_African 0.54
10 South_Asian 0.09
11 Eastern_Euro 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.77
2 Italian_Jewish 6.27
3 Algerian_Jewish 7.06
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.57
5 East_Sicilian 8.61
6 Central_Greek 8.78
7 Cyprian 9.73
8 Tunisian_Jewish 10.06
9 Ashkenazi 10.9
10 West_Sicilian 11.29
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.57
12 Italian_Abruzzo 11.71
13 Greek 14.28
14 Greek_Thessaly 15
15 Lebanese_Muslim 15.04
16 Syrian 16.38
17 Tuscan 16.51
18 Samaritan 16.68
19 Lebanese_Christian 18
20 Turkish 18.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.9% South_Italian + 32.1% Cyprian @ 3.95
2 81.8% South_Italian + 18.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.26
3 80.6% South_Italian + 19.4% Samaritan @ 4.27
4 72.1% Cyprian + 27.9% North_Italian @ 4.39
5 64.9% Cyprian + 35.1% Tuscan @ 4.56
6 84.6% South_Italian + 15.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.6
7 79.9% Cyprian + 20.1% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.69
8 77.7% Cyprian + 22.3% Portuguese @ 4.7
9 77.4% Cyprian + 22.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.72
10 78.6% Cyprian + 21.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.74
11 78.2% Cyprian + 21.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.77
12 77.8% Cyprian + 22.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.81
13 78.6% Cyprian + 21.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.83
14 78.5% Cyprian + 21.5% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.85
15 80.6% Cyprian + 19.4% Southwest_French @ 4.85
16 79.9% Cyprian + 20.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.86
17 77.2% South_Italian + 22.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.88
18 77.7% Cyprian + 22.3% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.92
19 87.3% South_Italian + 12.7% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.92
20 79.1% Cyprian + 20.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.93


Catania, NE Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.08
2 Atlantic 18.09
3 West_Med 17.12
4 West_Asian 12.88
5 Red_Sea 8.11
6 Baltic 3.93
7 North_Sea 3.28
8 Sub-Saharan 1.68
9 Eastern_Euro 1.5
10 Northeast_African 0.91
11 Amerindian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 5.12
2 Algerian_Jewish 6.3
3 Italian_Jewish 7.18
4 South_Italian 7.32
5 West_Sicilian 8.16
6 Tunisian_Jewish 8.8
7 East_Sicilian 8.84
8 Central_Greek 9.99
9 Italian_Abruzzo 10.4
10 Ashkenazi 10.86
11 Cyprian 13.18
12 Greek 13.36
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.78
14 Tuscan 14.65
15 Greek_Thessaly 16.09
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.78
17 Syrian 17.6
18 Samaritan 18.9
19 Jordanian 19.74
20 Palestinian 20.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.2% French_Basque @ 3.78
2 65.5% Lebanese_Christian + 34.5% French_Basque @ 4.04
3 89.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.05
4 67.6% Samaritan + 32.4% French_Basque @ 4.07
5 89.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.09
6 91.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.9% Southwest_French @ 4.1
7 90.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 9.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.1
8 90.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 9.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.18
9 75.5% Cyprian + 24.5% French_Basque @ 4.19
10 71.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 28.9% West_Sicilian @ 4.26
11 91.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.29
12 90.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 9.1% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.39
13 91.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.6% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.39
14 91.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.43
15 88.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.1% North_Italian @ 4.46
16 91.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.8% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.46
17 84% Sephardic_Jewish + 16% Greek @ 4.53
18 93.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.8% Sardinian @ 4.53
19 85.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 14.6% Tuscan @ 4.53
20 92.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.7% Portuguese @ 4.59


Eastern Palermo province, Sicily:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.21
2 West_Med 20.42
3 West_Asian 14.36
4 North_Sea 10.2
5 Atlantic 10.12
6 Red_Sea 6.64
7 Eastern_Euro 2.18
8 Sub-Saharan 2.16
9 Baltic 1.76
10 South_Asian 1.28
11 Northeast_African 0.67

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 6.08
2 Italian_Jewish 6.45
3 East_Sicilian 6.74
4 Algerian_Jewish 7.53
5 Central_Greek 7.62
6 Sephardic_Jewish 8.24
7 Ashkenazi 8.39
8 West_Sicilian 9.33
9 Italian_Abruzzo 9.69
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.47
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.67
12 Greek_Thessaly 12.71
13 Cyprian 13.04
14 Greek 13.38
15 Tuscan 13.78
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.88
17 Syrian 17.23
18 Samaritan 19.06
19 Turkish 19.33
20 North_Italian 19.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.6% Cyprian + 31.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.58
2 68.4% Cyprian + 31.6% Portuguese @ 4.93
3 75.6% South_Italian + 24.4% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.1
4 50.5% Algerian_Jewish + 49.5% Central_Greek @ 5.25
5 87.5% South_Italian + 12.5% Algerian @ 5.26
6 64.9% Central_Greek + 35.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.26
7 59.9% Italian_Jewish + 40.1% Central_Greek @ 5.3
8 68.4% Cyprian + 31.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.32
9 55.5% South_Italian + 44.5% Italian_Jewish @ 5.34
10 56.4% East_Sicilian + 43.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.37
11 53.4% Italian_Jewish + 46.6% East_Sicilian @ 5.38
12 61.8% Cyprian + 38.2% North_Italian @ 5.4
13 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Moroccan @ 5.41
14 65.6% South_Italian + 34.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.43
15 76.9% Italian_Jewish + 23.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 5.44
16 90.1% South_Italian + 9.9% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.47
17 72.1% East_Sicilian + 27.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.5
18 51.6% Cyprian + 48.4% Tuscan @ 5.5
19 89.3% South_Italian + 10.7% Tunisian @ 5.54
20 92% Italian_Jewish + 8% Tabassaran @ 5.57


Palermo/Calabria mix:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.21
2 West_Asian 19.25
3 West_Med 18.4
4 Atlantic 13.76
5 Red_Sea 5.94
6 North_Sea 4
7 Baltic 2.29
8 Northeast_African 1.63
9 Eastern_Euro 1.52
10 Southeast_Asian 0.46
11 Oceanian 0.36
12 South_Asian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 6.42
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.67
3 Italian_Jewish 7.64
4 Algerian_Jewish 8.35
5 East_Sicilian 8.72
6 Central_Greek 9.02
7 Tunisian_Jewish 9.58
8 Cyprian 9.63
9 Italian_Abruzzo 10.91
10 West_Sicilian 11.08
11 Ashkenazi 11.1
12 Libyan_Jewish 13.27
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.57
14 Greek 14.37
15 Syrian 15.22
16 Turkish 15.58
17 Greek_Thessaly 16.36
18 Tuscan 16.76
19 Samaritan 17.11
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.5% Cyprian + 17.5% French_Basque @ 3.57
2 83.8% Algerian_Jewish + 16.2% Abhkasian @ 3.87
3 76.7% Cyprian + 23.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.94
4 82.6% Algerian_Jewish + 17.4% Georgian @ 3.98
5 78.1% Cyprian + 21.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.99
6 79.2% Cyprian + 20.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.11
7 79.6% Cyprian + 20.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.25
8 78% Cyprian + 22% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.27
9 80.1% Cyprian + 19.9% Southwest_French @ 4.31
10 83.4% Algerian_Jewish + 16.6% Ossetian @ 4.4
11 84% Algerian_Jewish + 16% North_Ossetian @ 4.46
12 83% Algerian_Jewish + 17% Adygei @ 4.49
13 65% South_Italian + 35% Cyprian @ 4.49
14 88.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.3% Abhkasian @ 4.55
15 86.2% Italian_Jewish + 13.8% Abhkasian @ 4.57
16 77.8% Cyprian + 22.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.59
17 78.6% Cyprian + 21.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.62
18 83.1% Algerian_Jewish + 16.9% Balkar @ 4.64
19 77.6% Cyprian + 22.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.65
20 87.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 12.1% Georgian @ 4.65


Catanzaro, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.78
2 Atlantic 15.33
3 West_Med 15.19
4 West_Asian 15.1
5 Baltic 7.49
6 Red_Sea 6.86
7 North_Sea 5.09
8 Southeast_Asian 0.89
9 Northeast_African 0.25
10 Eastern_Euro 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.98
2 Sephardic_Jewish 6.01
3 Italian_Jewish 7.31
4 Algerian_Jewish 7.9
5 East_Sicilian 8.01
6 Central_Greek 8.37
7 Tunisian_Jewish 9.08
8 West_Sicilian 9.81
9 Ashkenazi 9.86
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.15
11 Cyprian 10.99
12 Greek 12.54
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.38
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.45
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.66
16 Tuscan 15.69
17 Syrian 15.89
18 Samaritan 17.24
19 Turkish 17.88
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.5% South_Italian + 16.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.66
2 89.8% South_Italian + 10.2% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.68
3 67.9% South_Italian + 32.1% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.72
4 83.4% South_Italian + 16.6% Palestinian @ 4.74
5 50.4% South_Italian + 49.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.77
6 74.8% Cyprian + 25.2% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.8
7 83.6% South_Italian + 16.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.85
8 80.7% Cyprian + 19.3% French_Basque @ 4.85
9 82.7% South_Italian + 17.3% Samaritan @ 4.87
10 77.3% Cyprian + 22.7% Southwest_French @ 4.9
11 53.6% West_Sicilian + 46.4% Cyprian @ 4.91
12 77.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 22.9% Greek @ 4.93
13 75.1% Cyprian + 24.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.94
14 76.5% Cyprian + 23.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.95
15 80.2% South_Italian + 19.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.96
16 74.8% South_Italian + 25.2% Cyprian @ 4.99
17 74% Cyprian + 26% Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.03
18 91.1% South_Italian + 8.9% Saudi @ 5.06
19 67.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 32.7% Central_Greek @ 5.07
20 85% South_Italian + 15% Jordanian @ 5.07


Vibo Valentia, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.16
2 West_Asian 17.57
3 West_Med 16.42
4 Atlantic 10.44
5 Red_Sea 8.21
6 Baltic 4.9
7 Eastern_Euro 4.84
8 North_Sea 4.25
9 South_Asian 1.18
10 Sub-Saharan 0.92
11 Northeast_African 0.74
12 Siberian 0.25
13 Southeast_Asian 0.11
14 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.98
2 South_Italian 7.01
3 East_Sicilian 7.29
4 Ashkenazi 7.33
5 Central_Greek 7.53
6 Italian_Jewish 8.28
7 Algerian_Jewish 8.74
8 Cyprian 9.79
9 Tunisian_Jewish 10.21
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.46
11 West_Sicilian 11.05
12 Greek 12.28
13 Lebanese_Muslim 12.79
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.79
15 Syrian 13.45
16 Greek_Thessaly 13.76
17 Turkish 14.35
18 Tuscan 16.48
19 Samaritan 16.56
20 Jordanian 17.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.5% Algerian_Jewish + 19.5% Adygei @ 3.4
2 80.4% Algerian_Jewish + 19.6% Kabardin @ 3.42
3 81.6% Algerian_Jewish + 18.4% Chechen @ 3.49
4 80.5% Algerian_Jewish + 19.5% Lezgin @ 3.49
5 78% Algerian_Jewish + 22% Kumyk @ 3.55
6 80.7% Algerian_Jewish + 19.3% Balkar @ 3.59
7 58.9% Ashkenazi + 41.1% Cyprian @ 3.68
8 82.1% Algerian_Jewish + 17.9% North_Ossetian @ 3.73
9 52.5% Greek + 47.5% Syrian @ 3.78
10 66.6% Central_Greek + 33.4% Syrian @ 3.83
11 70.8% Cyprian + 29.2% Romanian @ 3.94
12 59.4% East_Sicilian + 40.6% Cyprian @ 3.95
13 81.8% Algerian_Jewish + 18.2% Ossetian @ 3.95
14 68.4% Cyprian + 31.6% Bulgarian @ 3.97
15 73.8% Cyprian + 26.2% Serbian @ 3.98
16 81.7% Algerian_Jewish + 18.3% Tabassaran @ 3.98
17 56.5% Cyprian + 43.5% Greek @ 4.01
18 58.4% Central_Greek + 41.6% Cyprian @ 4.05
19 51.1% Greek + 48.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.06
20 80.5% Cyprian + 19.5% East_German @ 4.09


Crotone, Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.54
2 West_Med 18.6
3 West_Asian 16.17
4 Atlantic 14.58
5 Red_Sea 6.86
6 North_Sea 6.49
7 Baltic 3.7
8 Northeast_African 0.8
9 Eastern_Euro 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.85
2 Sephardic_Jewish 4.86
3 Italian_Jewish 5.12
4 Algerian_Jewish 6.36
5 East_Sicilian 6.66
6 Central_Greek 7.39
7 West_Sicilian 8.7
8 Tunisian_Jewish 8.86
9 Italian_Abruzzo 9.09
10 Ashkenazi 9.6
11 Cyprian 10.73
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.16
13 Greek 13.05
14 Tuscan 14.45
15 Greek_Thessaly 14.49
16 Lebanese_Muslim 14.93
17 Syrian 16.2
18 Samaritan 17.49
19 Turkish 18.02
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.8% Cyprian + 25.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.12
2 72.1% Cyprian + 27.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.21
3 79.4% Cyprian + 20.6% French_Basque @ 2.21
4 73.8% Cyprian + 26.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.23
5 58.4% South_Italian + 41.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.39
6 73.4% Cyprian + 26.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.42
7 74.4% South_Italian + 25.6% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.51
8 75.4% Cyprian + 24.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.55
9 72.7% Cyprian + 27.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.65
10 73.7% Cyprian + 26.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.66
11 76.1% Cyprian + 23.9% Southwest_French @ 2.71
12 86.4% South_Italian + 13.6% Samaritan @ 2.71
13 79.3% South_Italian + 20.7% Cyprian @ 2.73
14 87.5% South_Italian + 12.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.77
15 72.5% Cyprian + 27.5% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.83
16 74% Cyprian + 26% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.92
17 57.8% Cyprian + 42.2% Tuscan @ 2.94
18 66.8% Cyprian + 33.2% North_Italian @ 2.95
19 89.1% South_Italian + 10.9% Palestinian @ 3.02
20 63.4% South_Italian + 36.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.02


Reggio Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.83
2 West_Med 17.24
3 West_Asian 15.26
4 Atlantic 9.09
5 Red_Sea 8.06
6 Baltic 6.7
7 North_Sea 3.26
8 Northeast_African 2.97
9 Eastern_Euro 2.59

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.76
2 Algerian_Jewish 7.04
3 Tunisian_Jewish 7.2
4 Italian_Jewish 7.33
5 Cyprian 7.55
6 South_Italian 8.52
7 Libyan_Jewish 9.59
8 East_Sicilian 9.61
9 Ashkenazi 9.97
10 Central_Greek 10.38
11 Lebanese_Muslim 11.75
12 Syrian 12.49
13 West_Sicilian 13.02
14 Samaritan 13.33
15 Italian_Abruzzo 13.67
16 Greek 14.71
17 Jordanian 14.78
18 Lebanese_Christian 15.27
19 Palestinian 15.63
20 Greek_Thessaly 16.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.6% Samaritan + 47.4% Greek @ 3.1
2 68.9% Cyprian + 31.1% Greek @ 4.03
3 57.7% Cyprian + 42.3% East_Sicilian @ 4.05
4 58.9% Cyprian + 41.1% Ashkenazi @ 4.13
5 59.4% East_Sicilian + 40.6% Samaritan @ 4.15
6 57.1% Central_Greek + 42.9% Samaritan @ 4.21
7 63.1% South_Italian + 36.9% Samaritan @ 4.26
8 71.3% Cyprian + 28.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.28
9 78.1% Cyprian + 21.9% Bulgarian @ 4.29
10 51% Greek + 49% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.34
11 85.1% Cyprian + 14.9% Croatian @ 4.36
12 66.7% Cyprian + 33.3% West_Sicilian @ 4.46
13 84.6% Cyprian + 15.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.47
14 86% Cyprian + 14% Southwest_French @ 4.49
15 80.2% Cyprian + 19.8% Romanian @ 4.49
16 84.4% Cyprian + 15.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.49
17 84.1% Cyprian + 15.9% Portuguese @ 4.51
18 87.9% Cyprian + 12.1% Polish @ 4.51
19 88.3% Cyprian + 11.7% Estonian_Polish @ 4.54
20 87.3% Cyprian + 12.7% Ukrainian @ 4.55


Kastellorizo, Dodecanese, Greece:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.06
2 West_Asian 22.28
3 West_Med 18.61
4 Atlantic 8.41
5 North_Sea 7.01
6 Red_Sea 4.81
7 Baltic 3.31
8 Southeast_Asian 2.24
9 Eastern_Euro 0.84
10 Oceanian 0.24
11 Northeast_African 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 8.56
2 Cyprian 9.71
3 Central_Greek 9.77
4 East_Sicilian 10.38
5 Italian_Jewish 10.56
6 Sephardic_Jewish 10.85
7 Algerian_Jewish 11.97
8 Ashkenazi 12
9 Italian_Abruzzo 12.78
10 Tunisian_Jewish 13.15
11 Lebanese_Muslim 13.24
12 Turkish 13.7
13 Libyan_Jewish 14.45
14 West_Sicilian 14.48
15 Syrian 15.03
16 Greek 15.8
17 Greek_Thessaly 16.17
18 Assyrian 16.3
19 Samaritan 17.3
20 Armenian 17.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.6% South_Italian + 30.4% Armenian @ 4.4
2 69.9% Assyrian + 30.1% Sardinian @ 4.89
3 70.9% South_Italian + 29.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.97
4 69.4% South_Italian + 30.6% Assyrian @ 5.2
5 79.3% Italian_Jewish + 20.7% Abhkasian @ 5.23
6 68.1% Georgian_Jewish + 31.9% Sardinian @ 5.34
7 77.7% Italian_Jewish + 22.3% Georgian @ 5.39
8 76.8% Algerian_Jewish + 23.2% Abhkasian @ 5.59
9 64.7% Italian_Jewish + 35.3% Armenian @ 5.62
10 65.3% East_Sicilian + 34.7% Armenian @ 5.64
11 74.9% Algerian_Jewish + 25.1% Georgian @ 5.65
12 67.3% Central_Greek + 32.7% Armenian @ 5.66
13 73.4% South_Italian + 26.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.79
14 66% Central_Greek + 34% Assyrian @ 5.86
15 68.8% Armenian + 31.2% Sardinian @ 5.96
16 85.2% South_Italian + 14.8% Abhkasian @ 6
17 50.3% Cyprian + 49.7% Central_Greek @ 6.05
18 68.5% Central_Greek + 31.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.06
19 69.4% Central_Greek + 30.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.08
20 84% South_Italian + 16% Georgian @ 6.1


Rhodes, Dodecanese, Greece:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.01
2 West_Asian 19.56
3 West_Med 16.63
4 Baltic 8.87
5 North_Sea 8.16
6 Red_Sea 7.38
7 Atlantic 6.4
8 Oceanian 0.92
9 Eastern_Euro 0.8
10 South_Asian 0.25
11 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 8.34
2 South_Italian 8.46
3 East_Sicilian 8.84
4 Ashkenazi 9.29
5 Cyprian 10.73
6 Italian_Jewish 10.79
7 Sephardic_Jewish 11.08
8 Algerian_Jewish 12.22
9 Italian_Abruzzo 12.33
10 Greek_Thessaly 13.11
11 Tunisian_Jewish 13.27
12 Lebanese_Muslim 13.39
13 Greek 13.71
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.79
15 West_Sicilian 14.21
16 Syrian 14.29
17 Turkish 14.98
18 Samaritan 17.03
19 Assyrian 17.38
20 Lebanese_Christian 17.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56% Cyprian + 44% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.94
2 60.5% Greek_Thessaly + 39.5% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.02
3 50.6% Greek_Thessaly + 49.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.16
4 58.8% Greek_Thessaly + 41.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.17
5 58% Greek_Thessaly + 42% Assyrian @ 5.26
6 74.1% Central_Greek + 25.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.28
7 71.9% Central_Greek + 28.1% Assyrian @ 5.28
8 74.4% Central_Greek + 25.6% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.4
9 73% Central_Greek + 27% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.47
10 70.4% East_Sicilian + 29.6% Assyrian @ 5.49
11 66.2% Central_Greek + 33.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.55
12 60.8% Greek_Thessaly + 39.2% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.56
13 67.9% Central_Greek + 32.1% Syrian @ 5.57
14 76.5% Cyprian + 23.5% Moldavian @ 5.62
15 70.3% Cyprian + 29.7% Romanian @ 5.64
16 59.8% Central_Greek + 40.2% Cyprian @ 5.65
17 80.4% Cyprian + 19.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.66
18 74.8% Central_Greek + 25.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.67
19 72.5% Central_Greek + 27.5% Samaritan @ 5.7
20 78.2% Cyprian + 21.8% Hungarian @ 5.73


Kalymnos, Dodecanese, Greece:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.14
2 West_Asian 18.61
3 West_Med 14.7
4 Atlantic 13.86
5 North_Sea 6.35
6 Baltic 5.6
7 Red_Sea 4.37
8 Eastern_Euro 1.93
9 South_Asian 1.76
10 Northeast_African 0.61
11 Siberian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.41
2 Central_Greek 6.93
3 East_Sicilian 7.39
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.72
5 Italian_Jewish 8.58
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.96
7 Ashkenazi 9.16
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.78
9 West_Sicilian 10.16
10 Cyprian 10.73
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.02
12 Greek 11.86
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.54
14 Greek_Thessaly 13.75
15 Turkish 14.24
16 Libyan_Jewish 14.32
17 Syrian 15.45
18 Tuscan 15.63
19 Assyrian 18.08
20 Samaritan 18.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.9% South_Italian + 18.1% Kurdish @ 2.73
2 80.6% South_Italian + 19.4% Azeri @ 3.06
3 83.6% South_Italian + 16.4% Iranian @ 3.08
4 80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Assyrian @ 3.11
5 64.8% West_Sicilian + 35.2% Assyrian @ 3.13
6 81.7% South_Italian + 18.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.17
7 81.5% South_Italian + 18.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.17
8 76.2% South_Italian + 23.8% Turkish @ 3.26
9 82.5% South_Italian + 17.5% Armenian @ 3.39
10 82.6% South_Italian + 17.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.51
11 67.2% West_Sicilian + 32.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.53
12 67.7% West_Sicilian + 32.3% Armenian @ 3.64
13 55.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 44.8% Cyprian @ 3.64
14 76.9% South_Italian + 23.1% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.75
15 70.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.7% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.82
16 67.2% West_Sicilian + 32.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.92
17 77.2% Central_Greek + 22.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.99
18 55.9% Tuscan + 44.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.02
19 70.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.06
20 84.2% South_Italian + 15.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.07


Symi, Dodecanese, Greece:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.96
2 West_Asian 17.88
3 West_Med 16.99
4 Atlantic 16.12
5 Red_Sea 5.77
6 Baltic 3.09
7 North_Sea 2.39
8 Northeast_African 1.05
9 South_Asian 1
10 Eastern_Euro 0.76
11 Siberian 0.63
12 Southeast_Asian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 6.23
2 South_Italian 7.41
3 Italian_Jewish 8.19
4 Algerian_Jewish 8.23
5 Tunisian_Jewish 8.96
6 Cyprian 9.9
7 East_Sicilian 10.05
8 Central_Greek 10.41
9 West_Sicilian 11.26
10 Italian_Abruzzo 11.76
11 Ashkenazi 12.3
12 Lebanese_Muslim 13.76
13 Libyan_Jewish 14.02
14 Greek 14.91
15 Syrian 15.59
16 Turkish 16.48
17 Samaritan 16.99
18 Tuscan 17.43
19 Greek_Thessaly 17.57
20 Lebanese_Christian 18.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82% Cyprian + 18% French_Basque @ 3.71
2 76.7% Cyprian + 23.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.62
3 79.1% Cyprian + 20.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.66
4 78.3% Cyprian + 21.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.75
5 77.9% Cyprian + 22.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.77
6 80.3% Cyprian + 19.7% Southwest_French @ 5.01
7 92.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.9% Abhkasian @ 5.22
8 80.2% Cyprian + 19.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.25
9 54.3% Cyprian + 45.7% West_Sicilian @ 5.27
10 91.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.3% Georgian @ 5.3
11 78.1% Cyprian + 21.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.33
12 92.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.6% North_Ossetian @ 5.39
13 92.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.8% Adygei @ 5.45
14 92.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.8% Balkar @ 5.46
15 79.1% Cyprian + 20.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.47
16 92.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.4% Ossetian @ 5.47
17 87.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 12.3% Armenian @ 5.48
18 70.8% Lebanese_Christian + 29.2% French_Basque @ 5.48
19 84% Sephardic_Jewish + 16% Turkish @ 5.49
20 92.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.5% Kabardin @ 5.52

[Haider]

Doesn't make sense to group all North Italy together while breaking down all South Italy regions when the former is much more genetically diverse than the latter.

[Mark]

...

It would appear that some AJ's shifted more towards or within Greece. *see Ashkenazi circled.

https://imgur.com/2oiZC7V

[Mark]

Edit: Mods, image link does not display for some reason.

[kleenex]

based on ph2ter's PCA it's definitely more something like this

North Italy
Central Italy - Albanians - Northern Greece
Peloponnese - Central Greece
South Italy (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia)
South Italy (Campania, Sicily and Calabria)
Ashkenazim
Greek Crete, Aegean Islands and Dodecanese
Sephardim
Cypriots


https://i.imgur.com/Gk4pYrq.jpg

According to most PCA's Peloponnesians and Thessalians are indistinguishable. I'm Peloponnesian and consistently plot close to Thessalians so I'm not sure why Sikeliot is placing Thessalians in the North Greek cluster. Thessalians are Central Greeks just like Boetians and Rumelians.

[Sikeliot]

According to most PCA's Peloponnesians and Thessalians are indistinguishable. I'm Peloponnesian and consistently plot close to Thessalians so I'm not sure why Sikeliot is placing Thessalians in the North Greek cluster. Thessalians are Central Greeks just like Boetians and Rumelians.

The Thessalians I have seen results for are much closer to those in Macedonia and not to say, Maniots. Thessalians have a high Slavic component.

[Sikeliot]

It would appear that some AJ's shifted more towards or within Greece. *see Ashkenazi circled.

https://imgur.com/2oiZC7V

Are these Ashkenazim mixed with Slavic more than others are?

[Livin]

According to most PCA's Peloponnesians and Thessalians are indistinguishable. I'm Peloponnesian and consistently plot close to Thessalians so I'm not sure why Sikeliot is placing Thessalians in the North Greek cluster. Thessalians are Central Greeks just like Boetians and Rumelians.

Thessaly,thrace and macedonia are pretty much the same due to slavic admixture.

Thrace IMO has the most.

Epirotes and western regions coming closer to albos.

[Mark]

Are these Ashkenazim mixed with Slavic more than others are?

No idea. I took the map from the previous post and circled the Ashkenazi area.

It won't let me insert the IMG brackets for some reason, but here is the link directly:

https://imgur.com/2oiZC7V

[Sikeliot]

Thessaly,thrace and macedonia are pretty much the same due to slavic admixture.

Thrace IMO has the most.

Epirotes and western regions coming closer to albos.

This is my opinion also. Though I have seen an increase again in Slavic (though not on North Greek levels) in the northwest Peloponnese.

[Sikeliot]

No idea. I took the map from the previous post and circled the Ashkenazi area.

It won't let me insert the IMG brackets for some reason, but here is the link directly:

https://imgur.com/2oiZC7V


Those Jews are closest to the area where the southernmost Peloponnesians converge with the northernmost plotting Aegean islanders. A bit "Slavic" compared to say, Sicily but not extensively.

[kleenex]

Thessaly,thrace and macedonia are pretty much the same due to slavic admixture.

Thrace IMO has the most.

Epirotes and western regions coming closer to albos.

Did you see the PCA?

[Livin]

This is my opinion also. Though I have seen an increase again in Slavic (though not on North Greek levels) in the northwest Peloponnese.

Well even Maniots have a little bit slavic input if i remember well.

Somewhere i had seen a kit from Maniot he was scoring high baltid.I am not sure,probably in anthrogenica.

[kleenex]

This is my opinion also. Though I have seen an increase again in Slavic (though not on North Greek levels) in the northwest Peloponnese.

Not sure where you'r coming from on this post. What do you mean by the NW Peloponnese. I'm a super typical Peloponnesian and I have Thessalians or Peloponnesians as my first population (very close). Find me a result from Patras and compare it to a Messinian and see if there is any difference.

[Sikeliot]

Well even Maniots have a little bit slavic input if i remember well.

Somewhere i had seen a kit from Maniot he was scoring high baltid.I am not sure,probably in anthrogenica.

All Greeks from Greece (except possibly some Dodecanese) have at least minor Slavic. But it gets low in some of the islands and in some people in Mani.

[Mark]

Those Jews are closest to the area where the southernmost Peloponnesians converge with the northernmost plotting Aegean islanders. A bit "Slavic" compared to say, Sicily but not extensively.

But if AJ's in general plot mostly within the technical confines of European territory, than they are (now) an ipspo facto European ethnic group. Jews didn't start out that way obviously, but because of Euro gene absorption into the pool, they seem to be now.

[Sikeliot]

Not sure where you'r coming from on this post. What do you mean by the NW Peloponnese. I'm a super typical Peloponnesian and I have Thessalians or Peloponnesians as my first population (very close). Find me a result from Patras and compare it to a Messinian and see if there is any difference.

I have one result from Patras and it is closer to Thessaly, Macedonia or Thrace, and not to Maniots.

[kleenex]

Not sure where you'r coming from on this post. What do you mean by the NW Peloponnese. I'm a super typical Peloponnesian and I have Thessalians or Peloponnesians as my first population (very close). Find me a result from Patras and compare it to a Messinian and see if there is any difference.

I hate to say this but Messinia has the highest Slavic admixture according to the Genetics of the Peloponnesian Populatlon study:
Belarusians Russians Polish Ukrainians French Italians Basque Andalusians
Argolis 5.4 (1.5) 12.2 (1.2) 5.8 (0.8) 6.8 (1.1) 39.1 (19.2) 94.7 (4.8) 2.8 (1.4) 60.5 (5.9)
Corinthia 5.9 (1.7) 13.0 (1.3) 6.3 (1) 7.5 (1.3) 41.2 (18.5) 94.9 (4.0) 3.1 (1.7) 62.0 (5.9)
Achaea 6.5 (1.7) 13.8 (1.1) 7.0 (0.8) 8.1 (1.1) 41.4 (18.4) 94.8 (4.0) 2.7 (1.4) 61.3 (5.8)
Arcadia 5.3 (1.8) 10.9 (2.4) 5.2 (1.2) 6.2 (1.5) 39.1 (18.2) 85.4 (14.6) 2.4 (1.4) 53.8 (9.1)
Elis 6.1 (1.3) 13.1 (1.2) 6.5 (0.8) 7.6 (1.1) 41.4 (18.3) 95.0 (3.3) 3.3 (1.7) 61.6 (5.6)
Messenia 6.7 (1.7) 14.4 (1.2) 7.3 (0.9) 8.5 (1.2) 42.6 (18.4) 95.2 (4.0) 2.7 (1.3) 61.8 (5.7)
Laconia 4.8 (1.2) 11.4 (1.5) 5.2 (0.9) 6.4 (1.1) 41.1 (14.6) 96.1 (2.3) 2.3 (1.4) 59.8 (5.6)

[Livin]

All Greeks from Greece (except possibly some Dodecanese) have at least minor Slavic. But it gets low in some of the islands and in some people in Mani.

I can't undestand how slavs intermixed with the locals so easily,especially with Maniots and Laconians or in in other parts of peloponnesus....

[Sikeliot]

I hate to say this but Messina has the highest Slavic admixture according to the Genetics of the Peloponnesian Populatlon study:
Belarusians Russians Polish Ukrainians French Italians Basque Andalusians
Argolis 5.4 (1.5) 12.2 (1.2) 5.8 (0.8) 6.8 (1.1) 39.1 (19.2) 94.7 (4.8) 2.8 (1.4) 60.5 (5.9)
Corinthia 5.9 (1.7) 13.0 (1.3) 6.3 (1) 7.5 (1.3) 41.2 (18.5) 94.9 (4.0) 3.1 (1.7) 62.0 (5.9)
Achaea 6.5 (1.7) 13.8 (1.1) 7.0 (0.8) 8.1 (1.1) 41.4 (18.4) 94.8 (4.0) 2.7 (1.4) 61.3 (5.8)
Arcadia 5.3 (1.8) 10.9 (2.4) 5.2 (1.2) 6.2 (1.5) 39.1 (18.2) 85.4 (14.6) 2.4 (1.4) 53.8 (9.1)
Elis 6.1 (1.3) 13.1 (1.2) 6.5 (0.8) 7.6 (1.1) 41.4 (18.3) 95.0 (3.3) 3.3 (1.7) 61.6 (5.6)
Messenia 6.7 (1.7) 14.4 (1.2) 7.3 (0.9) 8.5 (1.2) 42.6 (18.4) 95.2 (4.0) 2.7 (1.3) 61.8 (5.7)
Laconia 4.8 (1.2) 11.4 (1.5) 5.2 (0.9) 6.4 (1.1) 41.1 (14.6) 96.1 (2.3) 2.3 (1.4) 59.8 (5.6)

Messenia, Elis, and Achaea seem the highest. But this surprises me, I thought Messinians were more shifted west.

[kleenex]

Messenia, Elis, and Achaea seem the highest. But this surprises me, I thought Messinians were more shifted west.

It is at the same time look at the Basque and Italian percentages.

[Sikeliot]

It is at the same time look at the Basque and Italian percentages.

The Italian component should also be capturing Near Eastern elements and "southern" plotting things. I would assess western input with proximity to Iberia there.

[kleenex]

I can't undestand how slavs intermixed with the locals so easily,especially with Maniots and Laconians or in in other parts of peloponnesus....

Because the Western part of the Peloponnese did not have the support or protection of the Byzantines during the seventh century when there was a massive influx of Slavs in that region.

[Livin]

Because the Western part of the Peloponnese did not have the support or protection of the Byzantines during the seventh century when there was a massive influx of Slavs in that region.

And these slavic tribes had assilimated paleobalkan people before raid to Greece.

[Hadouken]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=20575&dateline=1539793281

[Sikeliot]

Because the Western part of the Peloponnese did not have the support or protection of the Byzantines during the seventh century when there was a massive influx of Slavs in that region.

Western Peloponnese is more Slavic than the east, but the odd thing is, in the rest of mainland Greece, the east is more Slavic (i.e. Macedonia, Thrace, Thessaly are more Slavic than Epirus is).

[catgeorge]

something like this.

LEAST: North Italy (Piedmont, Liguria, Veneto, etc)
Northern Greece (Macedonia, Thessaly, Thrace, Epirus)
Central Italy (Tuscany, Lazio, Marche)
Peloponnese
SE Sicily, Mani and Tsakonia
Central-South Italy (Abruzzo, Molise, Apulia) and Trapani
Campania, Western Crete and Cyclades Islands
North Aegean Islands and Dodecanese*
West/Central Sicily, Central/Eastern Crete, Malta, and Ashkenazim
Kalymnos/Rhodes*
NE Sicily/Calabria
Sephardim
Cypriots
MOST: North African and Mizrahi Jews

After analyzing extensively many DNA results I think this is about right.

Provide genetical evidence or stop posting about Greeks

[catgeorge]

Yes to both. SE Sicily has absorbed some NE European/Slavic DNA likely from Greece, and while Central Italy is more "western" than northern Greece, they also have less Northern European.

Provide genetical evidence or stop posting about Greeks

[Sikeliot]

Provide genetical evidence or stop posting about Greeks

Read this study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

[catgeorge]

The southeast of Sicily has the least Near Eastern input in southern Italy, along with Apulia and additionally has the most evidence of recent (Slavic-admixed) Greek input.

Provide genetical evidence or stop posting about Greeks

[Tauromachos]

Well even Maniots have a little bit slavic input if i remember well.

Somewhere i had seen a kit from Maniot he was scoring high baltid.I am not sure,probably in anthrogenica.

Baltic is in general higher in Mainland Greeks than in Islanders but it has not to do with medieval Slavic admixture only

Slavic ancestry in Peloponnese has been studied by Stamatoyannopoulos and Maniots from Inner Mani had about
1% shared ancestry with Slavs

Outer Laconians from regions peripherial to the Mani though have higher

Their average was something like 7-8% in that study

There were two Medieval Slavic tribes Melingi and Ezerites which settled at Taygetos but didn't enter the Mani peninsular

[Sikeliot]

Provide genetical evidence or stop posting about Greeks

Are you going to stop spamming?

[catgeorge]

Read this study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

So why dont we match with Serbs, Croats and Montenegrans in any genetic test....I am getting seriously tired of your inane uneducated bullshit.

[Sikeliot]

So why dont we match with Serbs, Croats and Montenegrans in any genetic test....I am getting seriously tired of your inane uneducated bullshit.

Mainland Greeks do not match Sicily either. And are barely close to Rhodians and Crete.

[catgeorge]

Are you going to stop spamming?

You stop spamming about Greeks first

[Sikeliot]

You stop spamming about Greeks first

If you can't admit to Slavic ancestry in your people that is not my problem, others on here don't seem to have trouble admitting it.

[catgeorge]

Mainland Greeks do not match Sicily either. And are barely close to Rhodians and Crete.

Even North Greeks have some frequencies and matches with Sicily you inane uneducated idiot.

[catgeorge]

If you can't admit to Slavic ancestry in your people that is not my problem, others on here don't seem to have trouble admitting it.

There is no evidence to your spamming and I will hold you to account everytime I see you spam your rubbish.

So provide genetic evidence or stop posting about Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Even North Greeks have some frequencies and matches with Sicily you inane uneducated idiot.

They are not autosomally similar to them overall because of all of the Indo-European ancestry they have, whether Slavic or otherwise.

The most ancient proto-Greeks may have been similar to Sicily, but that has been overridden by Slavic, Albanian, and other input.

[Tauromachos]

Mainland Greeks do not match Sicily either. And are barely close to Rhodians and Crete.

The Mainland regions which are closer to Crete or in other words at the fringe to Crete geographicaly are also close to them genetically

As you can see in the studies or also by looking at the gedmatch results of Maniots

What else do you need?

[xripkan]

If you can't admit to Slavic ancestry in your people that is not my problem, others on here don't seem to have trouble admitting it.

I am from south western Peloponnese and my gedmatch results indicate proximity with central and south Italy and much less with the Balkans. As I noticed these results are very similar to many Greek users. This is an indication that at least a big part of greek population is not as slavic as you said. So without having a problem with slavic or any other ancestry I suppose that there is some admixture from the early Middle Ages but it may be smaller than it is said.

[Tauromachos]

I am from south western Peloponnese and my gedmatch results indicate proximity with central and south Italy and much less with the Balkans. As I noticed these results are very similar to many Greek users. This is an indication that at least a big part of greek population is not as slavic as you said. So without having a problem with slavic or any other ancestry I suppose that there is some admixture from the early Middle Ages but it may be smaller than it is said.

Slavic admixture or shared ancestry with Slavs in Peloponnese ranges between 1% or 15 % and varies by region or even individual

The rest "the Non Slavic parts" of their DNA is similar or shared with South and other Italians and to some extend also with Iberians and French
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718

General North East European or Baltic type component in Greeks is not the same with Slavic shared ancestry afaik.

The Mainland of Greece was already a bit more NE than the Islands since the Bronze Age
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals

[Sikeliot]

I am from south western Peloponnese and my gedmatch results indicate proximity with central and south Italy and much less with the Balkans. As I noticed these results are very similar to many Greek users. This is an indication that at least a big part of greek population is not as slavic as you said. So without having a problem with slavic or any other ancestry I suppose that there is some admixture from the early Middle Ages but it may be smaller than it is said.

They may be close to some Italians, but they are not going to be like a Calabrian or Sicilian. There is still enough recent "European" input. Though southern Peloponnesians might indeed be more proto-Greek than say, Thessalians.

The greatest differences to southern Italy within Greece, should be Thrace/Macedonia/Thessaly.

[kleenex]

I am from south western Peloponnese and my gedmatch results indicate proximity with central and south Italy and much less with the Balkans. As I noticed these results are very similar to many Greek users. This is an indication that at least a big part of greek population is not as slavic as you said. So without having a problem with slavic or any other ancestry I suppose that there is some admixture from the early Middle Ages but it may be smaller than it is said.

Where are you from? Messinia by chance?

[xripkan]

Where are you from? Messinia by chance?

Yes, my father is from Messinia and my mother has half origin from southern Arcadia.

[xripkan]

They may be close to some Italians, but they are not going to be like a Calabrian or Sicilian. There is still enough recent "European" input. Though southern Peloponnesians might indeed be more proto-Greek than say, Thessalians.

The greatest differences to southern Italy within Greece, should be Thrace/Macedonia/Thessaly.

Could you give me a gedmatch example to see the difference between these regions?

[Tauromachos]

They may be close to some Italians, but they are not going to be like a Calabrian or Sicilian. There is still enough recent "European" input. Though southern Peloponnesians might indeed be more proto-Greek than say, Thessalians.

The greatest differences to southern Italy within Greece, should be Thrace/Macedonia/Thessaly.

The study i have posted mentions Sicily as one of the Italian regions with whom ancestry is shared

Deal with it!

Of course they don't have to plot right next to Sicilians

If you share around 50%-70% or more common ancestry with Sicilians but the rest of your ancestry is different distinct you are not
going to plot next to Sicilians

Yet your claime that there is no relation to Sicily or no significant ancestry shared with them is nonesense.

Sicily has more YDNA inherited from Ancient Greek settlers than from Menas according to scientists.
Yet you relate Sicilians and Menas all the time and claim they look the same almost

[Papastratosels26]

Ok

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[kleenex]

Yes, my father is from Messinia and my mother has half origin from southern Arcadia.
So you’re 1/2 Messinian 1/4 Arcadian
I’m 3/4 Messinian (Actually my paternal grandfather’s family settled in Messena from Megalopolis Arcadia in the late 18th century) and 1/4 Arcadian. Could you post your gedmatch results?

[xripkan]

So you’re 1/2 Messinian 1/4 Arcadian
I’m 3/4 Messinian (Actually my paternal grandfather’s family settled in Messena from Megalopolis Arcadia in the late 18th century) and 1/4 Arcadian. Could you post your gedmatch results?

So we have about the same origin. Let me know how similar our results are.

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit AP6562337

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.25
2 West_Med 19.83
3 North_Atlantic 17.76
4 Baltic 16.46
5 West_Asian 13.6
6 Red_Sea 2.46
7 South_Asian 1.07
8 Oceanian 1
9 Siberian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.15
2 Central_Greek 6.67
3 East_Sicilian 8.23
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.43
5 West_Sicilian 9.65
6 Ashkenazi 9.98
7 Bulgarian 10.08
8 South_Italian 10.97
9 Tuscan 11.76
10 Romanian 12.54
11 North_Italian 16.37
12 Italian_Jewish 16.49
13 Algerian_Jewish 16.51
14 Sephardic_Jewish 16.72
15 Serbian 16.86
16 Tunisian_Jewish 20.23
17 Libyan_Jewish 20.76
18 Cyprian 21.42
19 Moldavian 22.39
20 Turkish 22.45

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit AP6562337

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.43
2 Atlantic 17.62
3 West_Med 14.48
4 West_Asian 14.37
5 Baltic 10.69
6 North_Sea 7.72
7 Eastern_Euro 6.44
8 Red_Sea 2.73
9 Oceanian 0.84
10 South_Asian 0.68

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 3.76
2 Italian_Abruzzo 6.99
3 Central_Greek 7.29
4 West_Sicilian 8.38
5 East_Sicilian 8.55
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.63
7 Ashkenazi 9.32
8 South_Italian 9.71
9 Bulgarian 10.29
10 Tuscan 10.47
11 Romanian 12.97
12 Sephardic_Jewish 14.1
13 Italian_Jewish 14.25
14 Algerian_Jewish 15.18
15 North_Italian 15.51
16 Serbian 16.53
17 Tunisian_Jewish 18.11
18 Cyprian 19.76
19 Turkish 19.81
20 Libyan_Jewish 20.88

Dodecad K12b 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.22
2 Atlantic_Med 27.55
3 North_European 22.69
4 Southwest_Asian 7.50
5 Gedrosia 4.92
6 Northwest_African 2.37
7 South_Asian 1.75


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Dodecad @ 6.264077
2 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 8.100996
3 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 9.459302
4 Tuscan_HGDP @ 11.725826
5 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 12.615416
6 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 12.737267
7 TSI30_Metspalu @ 12.778362
8 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 12.907060
9 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 13.341467
10 Bulgarian_Dodecad @ 13.432477
11 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev @ 13.603907
12 Romanians_Behar @ 14.875485
13 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 17.436171
14 North_Italian_HGDP @ 19.683111
15 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 19.822296
16 Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 21.995888
17 Turkish_Dodecad @ 25.601059
18 Cypriots_Behar @ 27.360167
19 Turks_Behar @ 28.249435
20 Baleares_1000Genomes @ 29.210794

[kleenex]

So we have about the same origin. Let me know how similar our results are.

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit AP6562337

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.25
2 West_Med 19.83
3 North_Atlantic 17.76
4 Baltic 16.46
5 West_Asian 13.6
6 Red_Sea 2.46
7 South_Asian 1.07
8 Oceanian 1
9 Siberian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.15
2 Central_Greek 6.67
3 East_Sicilian 8.23
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.43
5 West_Sicilian 9.65
6 Ashkenazi 9.98
7 Bulgarian 10.08
8 South_Italian 10.97
9 Tuscan 11.76
10 Romanian 12.54
11 North_Italian 16.37
12 Italian_Jewish 16.49
13 Algerian_Jewish 16.51
14 Sephardic_Jewish 16.72
15 Serbian 16.86
16 Tunisian_Jewish 20.23
17 Libyan_Jewish 20.76
18 Cyprian 21.42
19 Moldavian 22.39
20 Turkish 22.45

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit AP6562337

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.43
2 Atlantic 17.62
3 West_Med 14.48
4 West_Asian 14.37
5 Baltic 10.69
6 North_Sea 7.72
7 Eastern_Euro 6.44
8 Red_Sea 2.73
9 Oceanian 0.84
10 South_Asian 0.68

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 3.76
2 Italian_Abruzzo 6.99
3 Central_Greek 7.29
4 West_Sicilian 8.38
5 East_Sicilian 8.55
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.63
7 Ashkenazi 9.32
8 South_Italian 9.71
9 Bulgarian 10.29
10 Tuscan 10.47
11 Romanian 12.97
12 Sephardic_Jewish 14.1
13 Italian_Jewish 14.25
14 Algerian_Jewish 15.18
15 North_Italian 15.51
16 Serbian 16.53
17 Tunisian_Jewish 18.11
18 Cyprian 19.76
19 Turkish 19.81
20 Libyan_Jewish 20.88

Dodecad K12b 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.22
2 Atlantic_Med 27.55
3 North_European 22.69
4 Southwest_Asian 7.50
5 Gedrosia 4.92
6 Northwest_African 2.37
7 South_Asian 1.75


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Dodecad @ 6.264077
2 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 8.100996
3 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 9.459302
4 Tuscan_HGDP @ 11.725826
5 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 12.615416
6 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 12.737267
7 TSI30_Metspalu @ 12.778362
8 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 12.907060
9 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 13.341467
10 Bulgarian_Dodecad @ 13.432477
11 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev @ 13.603907
12 Romanians_Behar @ 14.875485
13 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 17.436171
14 North_Italian_HGDP @ 19.683111
15 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 19.822296
16 Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 21.995888
17 Turkish_Dodecad @ 25.601059
18 Cypriots_Behar @ 27.360167
19 Turks_Behar @ 28.249435
20 Baleares_1000Genomes @ 29.210794

K 13
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.7
2 North_Atlantic 21.82
3 West_Med 19.44
4 Baltic 14.78
5 West_Asian 13.26
6 Red_Sea 3.35
7 Amerindian 0.64

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.62
2 Italian_Abruzzo 5.99
3 Central_Greek 6.98
4 West_Sicilian 7.96
5 East_Sicilian 8.3
6 Tuscan 8.64
7 Bulgarian 10.24
8 Ashkenazi 10.59
9 South_Italian 10.75
10 Romanian 11.97
11 North_Italian 13.42
12 Serbian 16.06
13 Italian_Jewish 16.34
14 Sephardic_Jewish 16.36
15 Algerian_Jewish 16.92
16 Tunisian_Jewish 20.37
17 Libyan_Jewish 20.94
18 Portuguese 21.42
19 Spanish_Extremadura 21.66
20 Moldavian 22.52

[kleenex]

Our K 13’s are pretty similar you have slightly higher Baltic and lower North Atlantic but it evens out.

[Sikeliot]

The study i have posted mentions Sicily as one of the Italian regions with whom ancestry is shared

Deal with it!

Of course they don't have to plot right next to Sicilians

If you share around 50%-70% or more common ancestry with Sicilians but the rest of your ancestry is different distinct you are not
going to plot next to Sicilians

Yet your claime that there is no relation to Sicily or no significant ancestry shared with them is nonesense.

Sicily has more YDNA inherited from Ancient Greek settlers than from Menas according to scientists.
Yet you relate Sicilians and Menas all the time and claim they look the same almost


Sicilian ancestry is close to the oldest inhabitants of southeastern Europe, mixed with Levantine. All Balkan people have ancestry that matches with Sicily on this basis, and closeness to Sicilians is based on how much additional Levantine one has and how little NE European. For this reason, Dodecanese and Cretans are closer to Sicily than any mainland Greek, but mainland Greeks are closer to Sicily than Bulgaria is, and so on.

[Tauromachos]

Sicilian ancestry is close to the oldest inhabitants of southeastern Europe, mixed with Levantine. All Balkan people have ancestry that matches with Sicily on this basis, and closeness to Sicilians is based on how much additional Levantine one has and how little NE European. For this reason, Dodecanese and Cretans are closer to Sicily than any mainland Greek, but mainland Greeks are closer to Sicily than Bulgaria is, and so on.

No

Greeks have more to do with Sicily than "all Balkan people" in any regard

And there is more Greek influence in Sicily than Levantine

Deal with it!

[Sikeliot]

No

Greeks have more to do with Sicily than "all Balkan people" in any regard

And there is more Greek influence in Sicily than Levantine

Deal with it!



There is about 20% Levantine in Sicily.

With that said, the Greeks in Sicily were absolutely NOT like modern Macedonians, Thessalians, etc. Very few people similar to a modern Macedonian or Thessalian ever have been in Sicily.

[Tauromachos]

There is about 20% Levantine in Sicily.

With that said, the Greeks in Sicily were absolutely NOT like modern Macedonians, Thessalians, etc. Very few people similar to a modern Macedonian or Thessalian ever have been in Sicily.

It doesn't matter what they were more like


Sicily has more original Greek YDNA than Levantine one

Deal with it!

[Sikeliot]

It doesn't matter what they were more like


Sicily has more original Greek YDNA than Levantine one

Deal with it!

Sicilians may have more original Greek DNA than Thessalians and Macedonians, too. What now?

[Tauromachos]

Sicilians may have more original Greek DNA than Thessalians and Macedonians, too. What now?

:rotfl:Hahaha Idiot ! :picard2:

[Sikeliot]

:rotfl:Hahaha Idiot ! :picard2:

Put alternatively, there is an ancient eastern Mediterranean genetic structure to both southern Italy and Greece (Minoan/Mycenaean-like people), but southern Italians received about 20% Levantine, and mainland Greeks received about 30% Slavic.

[Livin]

Put alternatively, there is an ancient eastern Mediterranean genetic structure to both southern Italy and Greece (Minoan/Mycenaean-like people), but southern Italians received about 20% Levantine, and mainland Greeks received about 30% Slavic.

I agree.

[Tauromachos]

Put alternatively, there is an ancient eastern Mediterranean genetic structure to both southern Italy and Greece (Minoan/Mycenaean-like people), but southern Italians received about 20% Levantine, and mainland Greeks received about 30% Slavic.

Never!

[catgeorge]

Put alternatively, there is an ancient eastern Mediterranean genetic structure to both southern Italy and Greece (Minoan/Mycenaean-like people), but southern Italians received about 20% Levantine, and mainland Greeks received about 30% Slavic.

Prove it.

[catgeorge]

Low IQ Sikeliot and Livin should share a bed together. It would be interesting to see their conversations... come to think of it dont want to think of it.

Just because mainland Greeks are not Iranid and MENA doesnt mean its Slavic. Greeks have ancestery from Thracians and Illyrians as well. Greeks dont match with Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro and Poland.
The Bulgarian match is shared Thracian ancestry and thats the only people north of border that speak Slavic have shared ancestry with Greeks.

[Livin]

Low IQ Sikeliot and Livin should share a bed together. It would be interesting to see their conversations... come to think of it dont want to think of it.

Just because mainland Greeks are not Iranid and MENA doesnt mean its Slavic. Greeks have ancestery from Thracians and Illyrians as well. Greeks dont match with Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro and Poland.
The Bulgarian match is shared Thracian ancestry and thats the only people north of border that speak Slavic have shared ancestry with Greeks.

Ρε σαρακατσανε εσύ τι δουλειά έχεις με τους mainlanders?

Απο τα βουνά της Πίνδου ήρθες γιδοβοσκε αχαχαχχαα!!γιατι δεν λες την πραγματική σού καταγωγή? Οι σαρακατσανοι δεν είναι Ελληνες και το ξες.

[catgeorge]

Ρε σαρακατσανε εσύ τι δουλειά έχεις με τους mainlanders?

Απο τα βουνά της Πίνδου ήρθες γιδοβοσκε αχαχαχχαα!!γιατι δεν λες την πραγματική σού καταγωγή? Οι σαρακατσανοι δεν είναι Ελληνες και το ξες.

http://sarakatsanoi.blogspot.com/2013/11/1.html

"Σαρακατσάνοι, ο Αρχαιότερος λαός τής Ευρώπης"
Άρη Ν. Πουλιανού

[Livin]

http://sarakatsanoi.blogspot.com/2013/11/1.html

"Σαρακατσάνοι, ο Αρχαιότερος λαός τής Ευρώπης"
Άρη Ν. Πουλιανού

Καλα μιλάμε έχεις κάψει φλάντζα.

Αφού τα γράφει ο αξιόπιστος πουλιανος, τότε είστε γνήσιοι Ελληνες.Η φάρα σού είναι σλσβοσποροι και γενικά κοντά με αρομανους και άλλους βλάχους.Ουτα φαινομενικά δείχνεται Ελληνες.

Εχω γνωστούς ακόμα και καλούς φίλους σαρακατσανους. Οι περισσοτεροι είναι βαλκανοφατσες και σλαβοι.

[Ayetooey]

I agree with the OP bang on except I'd swap Sephardim and Cypriots.

[catgeorge]

Καλα μιλάμε έχεις κάψει φλάντζα.

Αφού τα γράφει ο αξιόπιστος πουλιανος, τότε είστε γνήσιοι Ελληνες.Η φάρα σού είναι σλσβοσποροι και γενικά κοντά με αρομανους και άλλους βλάχους.Ουτα φαινομενικά δείχνεται Ελληνες.

Εχω γνωστούς ακόμα και καλούς φίλους σαρακατσανους. Οι περισσοτεροι είναι βαλκανοφατσες και σλαβοι.

Τι λεει ο μαλακας ρε.

[Livin]

Τι λεει ο μαλακας ρε.

Για πες μάς τι λέω?

Σαρακατσανους εχει και στα Σκόπια και στη Βουλγαρία ανόητε.

Γιδοβοσκοι σαν τους βλάχους.

[catgeorge]

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40559637_2177565099142366_1577567201790001152_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=c23c2d0922634b5df7015658d5c41f96&oe=5C5C8D82

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40612709_2177564712475738_8970881857394573312_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=621b5fc8dca76e5f52c4a0ef84b5f449&oe=5C88184A

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40567212_2177563749142501_7486231466985127936_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=e3fd371b860776194dccb34effb9f5c7&oe=5C3FA574

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40641486_2177562885809254_3120595032499814400_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=4f204fb0cc35e27810356a4fa4f85679&oe=5C4C5C52

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40579553_2177561995809343_812507726780301312_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=4708e8bf4998f23321e256a10ce4474a&oe=5C3F5581

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40475471_2175680089330867_2249076649800761344_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=ef4ff229666fa21d1ab2cbb6f1ec21bb&oe=5C47FB6A

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35356012_2101361220096088_4905491532712247296_o.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=2257ffb53893c970824821806113fcda&oe=5C85E7AD

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28276653_2047245738840970_5311817818032363714_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=611906bbdc328e8b9595fe4b552975a1&oe=5C44C658

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21083069_1966247540274124_8573606332342887344_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=2c03780fb67d6743cb3e6e1a2a4a1b64&oe=5C5A270E

[Papastratosels26]

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40559637_2177565099142366_1577567201790001152_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=c23c2d0922634b5df7015658d5c41f96&oe=5C5C8D82

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40612709_2177564712475738_8970881857394573312_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=621b5fc8dca76e5f52c4a0ef84b5f449&oe=5C88184A

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40567212_2177563749142501_7486231466985127936_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=e3fd371b860776194dccb34effb9f5c7&oe=5C3FA574

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40641486_2177562885809254_3120595032499814400_o.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=4f204fb0cc35e27810356a4fa4f85679&oe=5C4C5C52

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40579553_2177561995809343_812507726780301312_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=4708e8bf4998f23321e256a10ce4474a&oe=5C3F5581

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40475471_2175680089330867_2249076649800761344_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=ef4ff229666fa21d1ab2cbb6f1ec21bb&oe=5C47FB6A

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35356012_2101361220096088_4905491532712247296_o.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=2257ffb53893c970824821806113fcda&oe=5C85E7AD

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28276653_2047245738840970_5311817818032363714_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=611906bbdc328e8b9595fe4b552975a1&oe=5C44C658

https://scontent.fmel8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21083069_1966247540274124_8573606332342887344_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=2c03780fb67d6743cb3e6e1a2a4a1b64&oe=5C5A270EThey look Greek

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Livin]

Τώρα τι θες να αρχίσω να βάζω και εγώ φωτογραφίες από δικά μου άτομα που μοιάζουν με βουλγαρους και Ρουμάνους?

Επειδή Ειμαι εξω τώρα και γράφω από κινητό. Αύριο θα βάλω σαρακατσανους να δούμε τι θα πούνε εδω μέσα και οι άλλοι.

[catgeorge]

Τώρα τι θες να αρχίσω να βάζω και εγώ φωτογραφίες από δικά μου άτομα που μοιάζουν με βουλγαρους και Ρουμάνους?

Επειδή Ειμαι εξω τώρα και γράφω από κινητό. Αύριο θα βάλω σαρακατσανους να δούμε τι θα πούνε εδω μέσα και οι άλλοι.

μας τα έχεις πρηξει τουρκοσπορε

[Livin]

μας τα έχεις πρηξει τουρκοσπορε

Βούλγαρε, αύριο ελπίζω να δεις τον αγώνα.

Οθωμανικό θα σε κάνουμε γιδοβοσκε της Πίνδου.

[Sikeliot]

Low IQ Sikeliot and Livin should share a bed together. It would be interesting to see their conversations... come to think of it dont want to think of it.

Just because mainland Greeks are not Iranid and MENA doesnt mean its Slavic. Greeks have ancestery from Thracians and Illyrians as well. Greeks dont match with Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro and Poland. .

Actually they do match Poland, just check some Greeks on 23andme who score East Europe and it will come up.

[Tauromachos]

Actually they do match Poland, just check some Greeks on 23andme who score East Europe and it will come up.

Its absolute bullshit!

In no scientific study Greeks match with Poland
They are far away from them you idiot
Actually Iberians even are closer to Greeks than Poles

There is no way ,if any Greek matches with Poles that he is full Greek he must
be a mixed marriage child like half Greek half Polish or half Greek half Ukranian


You have been going with this a little to far seriously

If there is one thing i agree is that Sicilians are closer to Levantines than
Greeks are to Poles

[xripkan]

Actually they do match Poland, just check some Greeks on 23andme who score East Europe and it will come up.

I have seen many 23andme greek results. Mainlands are mostly Balkan, the Anatolian Greeks mostly Western Asian and the islanders western Asian, Italian and balkan mix. I don't remember anyone with East Europe score. If you have a link share it with us.

[Mingle]

I have seen many 23andme greek results. Mainlands are mostly Balkan, the Anatolian Greeks mostly Western Asian and the islanders western Asian, Italian and balkan mix. I don't remember anyone with East Europe score. If you have a link share it with us.

This guy says he's 1/8 Pontian and he still gets over 5% Eastern European (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?180627-CASANDRINOS-23ANDME-RESULTS&p=3754434&viewfull=1#post3754434) on 23andMe. Though he also gets 1% East Asian & Native American which seems very unusual. He gets Poland and Russia (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?180627-CASANDRINOS-23ANDME-RESULTS&p=3755143&viewfull=1#post3755143) in his countries of ancestry.

[Smeagol]

I agree with the OP bang on except I'd swap Sephardim and Cypriots.

Sephardim almost always cluster north of Cypriots.

[xripkan]

This guy says he's 1/8 Pontian and he still gets over 5% Eastern European (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?180627-CASANDRINOS-23ANDME-RESULTS&p=3754434&viewfull=1#post3754434) on 23andMe. Though he also gets 1% East Asian & Native American which seems very unusual. He gets Poland and Russia (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?180627-CASANDRINOS-23ANDME-RESULTS&p=3755143&viewfull=1#post3755143) in his countries of ancestry.

Many Pontians have close ties with Russia and Ukrania. Some of them still live in these countries. This could justify the Eastern European. In general his ancestry is strange. He appears to have northwestern european ancestry. This is very unusual for Greeks. The 1% east asian is not very unusual. Some Greeks have 0.1-1% East Asian according to 23andme. I also have 0.3%

[Rgvgjhvv]

Many Pontians have close ties with Russia and Ukrania. Some of them still live in these countries. This could justify the Eastern European. In general his ancestry is strange. He appears to have northwestern european ancestry. This is very unusual for Greeks. The 1% east asian is not very unusual. Some Greeks have 0.1-1% East Asian according to 23andme. I also have 0.3%

I've never done 23andMe, I'm waiting for my brother's results. But the East Asian even 0.3% seems very very weird. I think the original 1/8th dude was a troll

[xripkan]

I've never done 23andMe, I'm waiting for my brother's results. But the East Asian even 0.3% seems very very weird. I think the original 1/8th dude was a troll

Actually it isn't. I have seen some Greek results with a little East Asian. It must be either Turkic or Mongolian. There were such invasions in Balkan and West Asia many times.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Actually it isn't. I have seen some Greek results with a little East Asian. It must be either Turkic or Mongolian. There were such invasions in Balkan and West Asia many times.

That's the thing, you shouldn't have Turkic because Greeks and Turks historically did not mix haha

[Rgvgjhvv]

Actually it isn't. I have seen some Greek results with a little East Asian. It must be either Turkic or Mongolian. There were such invasions in Balkan and West Asia many times.

But unless EA admixture shows up on your GEDMatch results, then it's probably just noise

[xripkan]

That's the thing, you shouldn't have Turkic because Greeks and Turks historically did not mix haha

Yes they didn't mix. Turkish people is mostly turkified anatolians with only 10-15% east asian dna. But there were invasions of turkmen tribes. There were also mongolian invasions until Smyrna. Northern Balkan also suffered by mongol Invasions. We could have one ancestor by these invasions 600 years ago. This means 0.2% east asian dna.

[xripkan]

But unless EA admixture shows up on your GEDMatch results, then it's probably just noise

How can I detect it on gedmatch results?

[Rgvgjhvv]

Yes they didn't mix. Turkish people is mostly turkified anatolians with only 10-15% east asian dna. But there were invasions of turkmen tribes. There were also mongolian invasions until Smyrna. Northern Balkan also suffered by mongol Invasions. We could have one ancestor by these invasions 600 years ago. This means 0.2% east asian dna.

I understand, I don't think they mixed still. What do your GEDMatch results say? Do you have any Siberian % in Eurogenes K13 or K15?

[xripkan]

I understand, I don't think they mixed still. What do your GEDMatch results say? Do you have any Siberian % in Eurogenes K13 or K15?

I have 0.57% Can I also detect arabian or north african?

[Rgvgjhvv]

I have 0.57% Can I also detect arabian or north african?

Do you really? Huh..interesting. I don't I've seen any Greek here with anything over 0.00% on Eurogenes. There's a spreadsheet somewhere someone's done the average Greek results for a lot of those main calculators, I'll see if I can find it.

As for Arabian/North African I am not too sure. I'd have to see some results from those regions to find a common thread among the ethnic groups or something. Maybe someone here will know better

[xripkan]

Do you really? Huh..interesting. I don't I've seen any Greek here with anything over 0.00% on Eurogenes. There's a spreadsheet somewhere someone's done the average Greek results for a lot of those main calculators, I'll see if I can find it.

As for Arabian/North African I am not too sure. I'd have to see some results from those regions to find a common thread among the ethnic groups or something. Maybe someone here will know better

Ok, thanks!

[Rgvgjhvv]

Ok, thanks!

Sorry GEDMatch was down at the time, I even have Siberian% on K13. I meant K36! Check to see if you have any Siberian and/or East Asian on the K36 calculator

[xripkan]

I have neither Siberian nor east Asian on K36.

[Constantine13]

Put alternatively, there is an ancient eastern Mediterranean genetic structure to both southern Italy and Greece (Minoan/Mycenaean-like people), but southern Italians received about 20% Levantine, and mainland Greeks received about 30% Slavic.

Put alternatively, there is an ancient eastern Mediterranean genetic structure to both southern Italy and Greece (Minoan/Mycenaean-like people), but southern Italians received about 20% AFRICA-PATH NEOLITHICS + PHOENICIANS + LESS-BUT-SIGNIFICANT ROMAN SLAVES AND MOORS, and mainland Greeks received about 30% _MOSTLY_ "REAL" IE GREEKS FROM THE NE + SOME ALBANIANS AND VLACHS + THRACIANS/ILLIRIANS + BARELY SIGNIFICANT "REAL" SLAVIC.

Med colonizations also happened differently in Italy and Greece. The former had the bulk of settlement from North Africa (and most likely clockwise via Iberia); the latter were mostly settled via Anatolia and also by Danube-type Meds who first circled the Black Sea. This sheds plenty of light here.

The NE component in Greeks is obviously as old as the Greeks themselves.

[wvwvw]

Northern Greece more northern than Central Italy? SE Sicily more northern than Abruzzo and Molise?

More/least near eastern doesn’t entail more/less northern as a whole. Some Italians may be more near eastern for example but even more northern in other components than Greeks.

[Rgvgjhvv]

I have neither Siberian nor east Asian on K36.

Ya like expected, that makes more sense! You can consider the 23andMe results then to be noise, and not a sign of any distant ancestry

[xripkan]

Ya like expected, that makes more sense! You can consider the 23andMe results then to be noise, and not a sign of any distant ancestry

Could oceanian component on k36 justify eastern asian results? I have 0.21%

[Tong]

well yeah.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Could oceanian component on k36 justify eastern asian results? I have 0.21%

No that's random I get a lot of that actually, even as trace results on different commercial tests. No idea why lol. Usually they say anything under 1% is noise