Is Turkey Middle Eastern or European?

[Bobby Martnen]

I'd say Middle Eastern. Nothing European about them.

[renaissance12]

10% European and 90% not European

[Smeagol]

Definitely Middle Eastern. Turks are genetically and culturally closer to Arabs than any Europeans.

[Böri]

Troll thread. Turkey is a transcontinental unique country. There are demographic Middle Eastern masses (like Arabic and Kurdish folks) yet the Turks are neither from the Euro nor the MENA side.

[Smeagol]

Turkey isn't transcontinental just because it retains some small part of it's stolen European territory. It's 100% MENA. Turks are Muslims who look like Arabs.

[Bobby Martnen]

Troll thread. Turkey is a transcontinental unique country. There are demographic Middle Eastern masses (like Arabic and Kurdish folks) yet the Turks are neither from the Euro nor the MENA side.

No, it's not a troll thread. I made this thread to show Turks that despite what a lot of them think, no one else sees them as European.

[Marmara]

No, it's not a troll thread. I made this thread to show Turks that despite what a lot of them think, no one else sees them as European.

None of us say we are European, you are hallucinating.

[Böri]

No, it's not a troll thread. I made this thread to show Turks that despite what a lot of them think, no one else sees them as European.

They who pretend to be Euro in Turkey are descents of actual Euros (Serbs, Albanians, Bosniaks etc) who converted from Orthodox during the Ottoman era for different reasons like actual belief, to make worldy benefit (Jizya tax breaks, bureaucratic position investiture etc) and stop being second class citizen. Actual Turks don't pretend to be Euro like standing away from being Middle Eastern.

[Kivan]

Proud in being a mudslime shitskin. :D :thumb001:

[Kaspias]

Definitely Middle Eastern. Turks are genetically and culturally closer to Arabs than any Europeans.

Turks are not close to Arabs, they are not close both genetically and culturally.

Turkey is genetically a mix of Europe, Anatolia and Central Asia. Culturally still mostly Central Asian.

Western Turks closer to Greeks and Eastern Turks closer to Caucasians. Except their East Eurasian admixture.

Why do Americans like to speak without enough knowledge?

[Böri]

Europeans, in such context, troll Turks because they know Turks don't want to be racially or culturally grouped with Arabs or Persians. So they play the tough but also ignorant in clear cut categorization of Turks in same basket as Arabs. That's a trolling, a funny one İ must say.


Turks are not close to Arabs, they are not close both genetically and culturally.

Turkey is genetically a mix of Europe, Anatolia and Central Asia. Culturally still mostly Central Asian.

Western Turks closer to Greeks and Eastern Turks closer to Caucasians. Except their East Eurasian admixture.

Why do Americans like to speak without enough knowledge?

Western Turks are closest to Old Turks you Pomak convert fuck. Don't try to give some hidden message by posing superficially as pro-Turkish.
Get lost, you convert from Orthodox.

[Bobby Martnen]

Turks are not close to Arabs, they are not close both genetically and culturally.

Turkey is genetically a mix of Europe, Anatolia and Central Asia. Culturally still mostly Central Asian.

Western Turks closer to Greeks and Eastern Turks closer to Caucasians. Except their East Eurasian admixture.

Why do Americans like to speak without enough knowledge?

The only reason Turks have European blood is because their Ottoman ancestors kidnapped and raped Europeans en masse. They're not European because of that and they will never be.

[Kaspias]

The only reason Turks have European blood is because their Ottoman ancestors kidnapped and raped Europeans en masse. They're not European because of that and they will never be.

Well, according to my haplogroup my Turkic ancestors already were in Balkans, before Ottomans. Nobody kidnapped or raped during Ottomans too.

On the other hand my one side directly Bulgarian. So have nothing to do with Ottomans.

I don't care being European btw, i'm proud with my blood.

[StonyArabia]

Turkey isn't transcontinental just because it retains some small part of it's stolen European territory. It's 100% MENA. Turks are Muslims who look like Arabs.

They don't. Arabs lack Turanid mix. They are much lighter with light skin and eyes on average. They can overlap with Levantines but even then they are much whiter. They look nothing like us imao.

[Papastratosels26]

Middle Eastern country

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[StonyArabia]

Of course they are Middle Eastern. Spain has land in Africa, you get the idea

[Böri]

Kaspias is native Balkanian whose ancestors were captured by the degenerate Greek-admixed Ottoman Fracticides. Their healthy boys were taken for homo joy and for the Janissary corps. The nice ones of their girls also filled harems.

Yet there was still a problem... They were Orthodoxes worshipping icons, eating all sorts of trash they were finding (pork etc..) according to Ottomans.
Then then Ottomans lured them into conversion with incentives such as tax breaks and the prospective of getting state office, thus becoming first class citizens.

They did...

[Marmara]

Böri harbi ruh hastasısın.

[Böri]

Böri harbi ruh hastasısın.

sende Arapsın amk.

[StonyArabia]

Böri harbi ruh hastasısın.

English please so we all can laugh

[Smeagol]

Turks are not close to Arabs, they are not close both genetically and culturally.

Turkey is genetically a mix of Europe, Anatolia and Central Asia. Culturally still mostly Central Asian.

Western Turks closer to Greeks and Eastern Turks closer to Caucasians. Except their East Eurasian admixture.

Why do Americans like to speak without enough knowledge?

Genetically Turks are closer to Levantine Arabs than any Greeks.

[Kaspias]

Kaspias is native Balkanian whose ancestors were captured by the degenerate Greek-admixed Ottoman Fracticides. Their healthy boys were taken for homo joy and for the Janissary corps. The nice ones of their girls also filled harems.

Yet there was still a problem... They were Orthodoxes worshipping icons, eating all sorts of trash they were finding (pork etc..) according to Ottomans.
Then then Ottomans lured them into conversion with incentives such as tax breaks and the prospective of getting state office, thus becoming first class citizens.

They did...

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Bobby Martnen]

Genetically Turks are closer to Levantine Arabs than any Greeks.

And the only reason Turks and Greeks have any affinities at all is because of the centuries-long Turkish rape and kidnapping of Greeks.

[Böri]

And the only reason Turks and Greeks have any affinities at all is because of the centuries-long Turkish rape and kidnapping of Greeks.

Turks and Greeks are genetically two very different populations. You should see results which are abundant on TA.
Greeks are a mix of Europeans, Levantines with low North Africans. While Turks are who different story.

[Smeagol]

Turks and Greeks are genetically two very different populations. You should see results which are abundant on TA.
Greeks are a mix of Europeans, Levantines with low North Africans. While Turks are who different story.

Turks are closer to all MENA populations than Greeks are.

[Jana]

Kaspias is native Balkanian whose ancestors were captured by the degenerate Greek-admixed Ottoman Fracticides. Their healthy boys were taken for homo joy and for the Janissary corps. The nice ones of their girls also filled harems.

Yet there was still a problem... They were Orthodoxes worshipping icons, eating all sorts of trash they were finding (pork etc..) according to Ottomans.
Then then Ottomans lured them into conversion with incentives such as tax breaks and the prospective of getting state office, thus becoming first class citizens.

They did...

He is not native Balkanian paternally dummie with Hunnic/Turkmen Type of haplogroup Q. Plus he has very significant Siberian admixture.

[Bobby Martnen]

Turks are closer to all MENA populations than Greeks are.

Message to Turks: Trying to swarthify Greeks won't make your people White.

[Böri]

Turks are closer to all MENA populations than Greeks are.

Turks might also be closer to Amerindians than to SSA yet doesn't mean cluster.
Beside, Cypriot and Cretan Greeks and some around are closer to Lebanese or Syrians than the Turks are.

[lameduck]

Turks are distinct from Middle easterners in all aspects culturally, geographically and to an extant phenotypically.

[Jana]

To answer OP question , Turkey is Eurasian.

It's European part is Balkan, not Southern Europe, and its much more significant Asian part is northwest Asian not Middle Eastern. Turks are more Asian than European, but with some European admixture and Middle Eastern Religion.

[Smeagol]

Turks might also be closer to Amerindians than to SSA yet doesn't mean cluster.
Beside, Cypriot and Cretan Greeks and some around are closer to Lebanese or Syrians than the Turks are.

No, only Cypriots are closer because much of their ancestry is Hellenized Levantine.

[Bobby Martnen]

To answer OP question , Turkey is Eurasian.

It's European part is Balkan, not Southern Europe, and its much more significant Asian part is northwest Asian not Middle Eastern. Turks are more Asian than European, but with some European admixture and Middle Eastern Religion.

Their European admixture doesn't make them European, since it is not consensual admixture from natural mingling, but rather it is the result of centuries of Turkish abduction and rape of Christian Europeans.

[Jana]

Their European admixture doesn't make them European, since it is not consensual admixture from natural mingling, but rather it is the result of centuries of Turkish abduction and rape of Christian Europeans.

I never Said Turks are European, but Eurasian with Asian (west and central Asian) being far more significant. However I don't see how Turkey is related with Arabs/SW Asians other than both are muslim. MENA is obsolete term anyway.

[Bobby Martnen]

I never Said Turks are European, but Eurasian with Asian (west and central Asian) being far more significant. However I don't see how Turkey is related with Arabs/SW Asians other than both are muslim. MENA is obsolete term anyway.

Turks are most closely related to Azeris, apparently.

Either way, they have nothing to do with Europe or Europeans

[Kivan]

Turks are most closely related to Azeris, apparently.

Either way, they have nothing to do with Europe or Europeans

Turks plot closer to Georgians, Armenians, Abkhazians, etc. Not only to Azeris.

And it is neither from your business. You created this thread only because you got triggered(you and your self-hating jew boyfriend above) for being exposed as an lifeless incel.

[Kaspias]

Turks are most closely related to Azeris, apparently.

Either way, they have nothing to do with Europe or Europeans

I can show you 100+ European Turk results. But i don't have time to tell you anything.

"They raped Europeans therefore they have European admixture"

Are you mentally retarded or something?

[Böri]

All this shitstorm by Protestants and some Jews today because we implied the UK might be followed by other fellow Protestants (Finland, Denmark, Sweden) to get out of the EU. That doesn't fit Reformed Judeo-Christian plans obviously.


XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

asdasdfcjfjcjj Funny Balkanite boy. You are close to Greeks not the Turks.

[Kaspias]

All this shitstorm by Protestants today because we implied the UK might be followed by other fellow Protestants (Finland, Denmark, Sweden) to get out of the EU. That doesn't fit Lutherian plans obviously.



asdasdfcjfjcjj Funny Balkanite boy. You are close to Greeks not the Turks.

not greeks, bulgarians. PLS BÖRİ

[Bobby Martnen]

Turks plot closer to Georgians, Armenians, Abkhazians, etc. Not only to Azeris.

And it is neither from your business. You created this thread only because you got triggered(you and your self-hating jew boyfriend above) for being exposed as an lifeless incel.

Smeagol is neither self-hating, a Jew, my boyfriend, nor an incel.

[Bobby Martnen]

I can show you 100+ European Turk results. But i don't have time to tell you anything.

"They raped Europeans therefore they have European admixture"

Are you mentally retarded or something?

That's what they did. Stole European women, forced them to marry Turkish men against their will (aka RAPE), and then raised the kids as Turks and Muslims.

[Böri]

Turks plot closer to Georgians, Armenians, Abkhazians, etc. Not only to Azeris.


Prove it alex. Abazas and Georgians are their own group, quite far from you Çerkez. Somewhat plot with Armenians only far eastern Turks.

[Kaspias]

That's what they did. Stole European women, forced them to marry Turkish men against their will (aka RAPE), and then raised the kids as Turks and Muslims.

Prove it bobby.

[Bobby Martnen]

Prove it bobby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_family_tree

[StonyArabia]

Turks plot closer to Georgians, Armenians, Abkhazians, etc. Not only to Azeris.

And it is neither from your business. You created this thread only because you got triggered(you and your self-hating jew boyfriend above) for being exposed as an lifeless incel.

He has minor Jewish ancestry, nor he identifies or seen as such. So he is not self hating lol

[Kaspias]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_family_tree

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHUIOWEKŞLRNJQEWRHIJ IQEWRQWERQWER

BEST PROOOOOOFFFF EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RR

[Ylla]

West Asian

[Bobby Martnen]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHUIOWEKŞLRNJQEWRHIJ IQEWRQWERQWER

BEST PROOOOOOFFFF EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RR

The Ottoman Sultans were the products of centuries of abduction and rape of European women by Turkish men.

[Smeagol]

:laugh:

[archangel]

Trolol at this troll thread made by some subhuman

[FinalFlash]

Great troll thread.

In all seriousness, they're neither. "MENA" is a nonsensical term and Turks arent close to mainstream Europeans either.

[Bobby Martnen]

:laugh:

If (NPC_Faction = 'Turk') and (OnlinePost = logical), {run Meltdown.exe}

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/418/304/2b2.jpg

[Böri]

:laugh:

:fpope::jew::crucify:

[Kaspias]

The Ottoman Sultans were the products of centuries of abduction and rape of European women by Turkish men.

Foreign women wanted to marry with Ottoman Sultans, IT IS NOT RAPE. And you're generalizing it like mass-rape in Ottomans.

There were never something like that.

[Bobby Martnen]

Great troll thread.

In all seriousness, they're neither. "MENA" is a nonsensical term and Turks arent close to mainstream Europeans either.

This is not a troll thread.

[FinalFlash]

This is not a troll thread.

In that case, neither.

[Bobby Martnen]

Foreign women wanted to marry with Ottoman Sultans, IT IS NOT RAPE. And you're generalizing it like mass-rape in Ottomans.

There were never something like that.

Ottomans stole European boys and drafted them, and stole European girls and raped them.

The world would be a far better place had they stayed in Central Asia where they belong.

[Kaspias]

This is not a troll thread.

Of course it is not :thumb001:

[Kivan]

He has minor Jewish ancestry, nor he identifies or seen as such. So he is not self hating lol

He is always trying to associate/lump Jews(and even Levantines) with Europeans. I've seen he getting pissed when an user here showed Jews in Israel, then he said that they were not true Jews because they not looked European enough.

I think his behavior is typical from that anti-social/incel nerd users from Stormfront. But it's just my opinion.

[Bobby Martnen]

Of course it is not :thumb001:

It was inspired by Mortimer's Turkey in the EU thread.

[Bobby Martnen]

He is always trying to associate/lump Jews(and even Levantines) with Europeans. I've seen he getting pissed when an user here showed Jews in Israel, then he said that they were not true Jews because they not looked European enough.

I think his behavior is typical from that anti-social/incel nerd users from Stormfront. But it's just my opinion.

Doesn't chimping out get tiring after a while?

[Kaspias]

Ottomans stole European boys and drafted them, and stole European girls and raped them.

The world would be a far better place had they stayed in Central Asia where they belong.

Your accusations same with dark age Catholic Church XD

Ottomans took European men, for military and public affairs. They were first class citizens of Empire. They didn't take girls. Also those European men couldn't marry, until ~50 years old. It was forbidden.

[Böri]

Bobby is just right about Ottomans, honestly. They fucked up Turks' image across Balkans and the rest of the world. The Muslim image was also fucked up by them, even Moors left a better image than them. The Muslim remnants of the Balkan ethnics descend from the weak chains.

Janissaries couldn't marry until 1516. Then Selim I gave one of them, an exception, the right to marry and that became popular starting from Suleiman era.
60 years later, Selim II married his 10-years old daughter to 50 years old Bosnian Serb devshirme Sokolovic Mehmet.

I felt repulsion even by reading. I hated the Ottoman civilization after that.

[StonyArabia]

He is always trying to associate/lump Jews(and even Levantines) with Europeans. I've seen he getting pissed when an user here showed Jews in Israel, then he said that they were not true Jews because they not looked European enough.

I think his behavior is typical from that anti-social/incel nerd users from Stormfront. But it's just my opinion.

That's not true he said many times that he believed the original Jews to have looked like Yemenite Jews. Anyways Jews are more of religious group than a true defined ethnic group as many people converted and adopted Hebrew culture and costumes. He barely identifies with Jews but with old stock white Americans which is the majority of his ancestry.

[Kivan]

That's not true he said many times that he believed the original Jews to have looked like Yemenite Jews. Anyways Jews are more of religious group than a true defined ethnic group as many people converted and adopted Hebrew culture and costumes. He barely identifies with Jews but with old stock white Americans which is the majority of his ancestry.

I didn't said he identify himself as a Jew, or that he hates being one. I was just talking about his behavior regarding such subject. Check his posts about Jews and you will understand. But whatever, his personal life is not from our business.

[StonyArabia]

Bobby is just right about Ottomans, honestly. They fucked up Turks' image across Balkans and the rest of the world. The Muslim image was also fucked up by them, even Moors left a better image than them. The Muslim remnants of the Balkan ethnics descend from the weak chains.

That's because Moors created a unique civilization they were not barbarians. Cordoba used to compete with Baghdad in everything. The same was also true of Arab ruled Sicily. There is no comparison.

[Smeagol]

He is always trying to associate/lump Jews(and even Levantines) with Europeans. I've seen he getting pissed when an user here showed Jews in Israel, then he said that they were not true Jews because they not looked European enough.

This post is mostly a lie with a hint of truth.
1: I have said that Ashkenazi Jews genetically cluster with South Italians and Greek Islanders which is true, while criticizing the large jewish involvement and leadership roles in anti-western ideologies/organizations.
2: I have never associated Levantines with Europeans.
3: I have never said anybody was not a "true jew" because I do not care who is a true jew, though technically there are even Chinese, Indian, and Ethiopian Jews who are not less Jewish than Ashkenazi, Sephardic or Mizrahi Jews. Again, I don't care because I'm a Christian of mostly gentile European ancestry.

[arkas]

Turkey is partially European(Balkan), but more so Middle Eastern and I think they have more in common with their neighbours directly East than their Western ones.

I think maybe some people are confused with what the term Middle Eastern means to many people, I think that Persians, Arabs and Turks are the 3 most prominent Middle Eastern groups and are unequivocally Middle Eastern. These confusion stems from y'all thinking Middle Eastern exclusively means only Arab, it doesn't.

[FinalFlash]

Turkey is partially European(Balkan), but more so Middle Eastern and I think they have more in common with their neighbours directly East than their Western ones.

I think maybe some people are confused with what the term Middle Eastern means to many people, I think that Persians, Arabs and Turks are the 3 most prominent Middle Eastern groups and are unequivocally Middle Eastern. Maybe there is some confusion because some of y'all think Middle Eastern exclusively means only Arab, it doesn't.

The term was actually coined to encompass the Arab world, and to a lesser extent, the Islamic world under a vague umbrella. The fact that this term, in recent times included North Africa and even Afghanistan and Pakistan should really show tell you how valid it is.

[Jana]

Turkey is partially European(Balkan), but more so Middle Eastern and I think they have more in common with their neighbours directly East than their Western ones.

I think maybe some people are confused with what the term Middle Eastern means to many people, I think that Persians, Arabs and Turks are the 3 most prominent Middle Eastern groups and are unequivocally Middle Eastern. These confusion stems from y'all thinking Middle Eastern exclusively means only Arab, it doesn't.

I think Turkey is culturally closer to Muslim Bosnia than Iraq.

[StonyArabia]

The Middle East is a geographic term not a genetic one. I have zero to do with Iranians for example but I am related to some Levantine ethnicities.

[arkas]

The term was actually coined to encompass the Arab world, and to a lesser extent, the Islamic world under a vague umbrella. The fact that this term, in recent times included North Africa and even Afghanistan and Pakistan should really show tell you how valid it is.

Do you really think that means it is invalid? I don't necessarily see any problems in religion being a criteria in defining regions of the world or broad cultural/ethnic groupings.

There really isn't any broad term that is super well defined and unquestionable tbh. I don't see 'Middle Eastern' being anymore nonsensical than 'European' or 'East Asian' for example.

[arkas]

I think Turkey is culturally closer to Muslim Bosnia than Iraq.

Actually I agree, but most of Turkey's Western neighbours are a little different to Bosnia.

Where do you consider the heart of the Middle East to be?

[FinalFlash]

Do you really think that means it is invalid? I don't necessarily see any problems in religion being a criteria in defining regions of the world or broad cultural/ethnic groupings.

There really isn't any broad term that is super well defined and unquestionable tbh. I don't see 'Middle Eastern' being anymore nonsensical than 'European' or 'East Asian' for example.

East Asian is more exclusive given the ethnic groups who encompass that category. The bulk of Europeans do cluster closest to one another so I dont find that to be vague. Middle eastern however, is much too broad, let alone this nonsensical bullshit "MENA" term. Like are you really going to lump people from Algeria in the same category with someone from the Caucasus region? They're like night and day. Whereas even your average Greek or Italian has ample overlap with people from Central Europe.

[Marmara]

Do you really think that means it is invalid? I don't necessarily see any problems in religion being a criteria in defining regions of the world or broad cultural/ethnic groupings.

There really isn't any broad term that is super well defined and unquestionable tbh. I don't see 'Middle Eastern' being anymore nonsensical than 'European' or 'East Asian' for example.

It is. First of all, the "Middle-Eastern" identity was invented by West, and usually formed by their ignorance. There is nothing that makes Turks and Saudis more related than Pakistanis and Saudis or Algerians and Turks.

It's much more sensical to unite Arab world and seperate non-Arabs from it. Middle-East can only be a region, not an identity.

[TheForeigner]

To answer OP question , Turkey is Eurasian.

It's European part is Balkan, not Southern Europe, and its much more significant Asian part is northwest Asian not Middle Eastern. Turks are more Asian than European, but with some European admixture and Middle Eastern Religion.

What is Eurasian supposed to mean? I also don't know what a Northwest Asian category is or how is it distinct from Middle Eastern/Near Eastern. Turkey has always been classed as part of the Near East/Middle East by Europeans. The term "Middle East" has largely replaced the older term "Near East", while the latter was invented to refer to the Ottoman Empire(even its Balkan posessions!). Isn't Turkish civilization a mix of Persian and Byzantine civilizations anyway? How is it not Middle Eastern?

[Jana]

Actually I agree, but most of Turkey's Western neighbours are a little different to Bosnia.

Where do you consider the heart of the Middle East to be?

Maybe you will be suprised at my answer, but I consider Egypt and Saudi Arabia heart of mid-east.
Egypt is controversial choice, but I have reasons to say that. Iraq should be third core country, I guess,
Despite it has some external influences (mainly Iranian).

There are smaller countries in heart of mid-east like Jordan but these 3 are bigger and more relevant.

[StonyArabia]

I think Turkey is culturally closer to Muslim Bosnia than Iraq.

There is no question about this. Iraq's culture is very Arabian and very Gulf like.

[Marmara]

Maybe you will be suprised at my answer, but I consider Egypt and Saudi Arabia heart of mid-east.
Egypt is controversial choice, but I have reasons to say that. Iraq should be third core country, I guess,
Despite it has some external influences (mainly Iranian).

There are smaller countries in heart of mid-east like Jordan but these 3 are bigger and more relevant.

Basically Arab World.

Middle-East = Arab, that's why Turks don't want to be referred as Middle-Eastern, it has nothing to do with European wannabism as people claim here.

[arkas]

It is. First of all, the "Middle-Eastern" identity was invented by West, and usually formed by their ignorance. There is nothing that makes Turks and Saudis more related than Pakistanis and Saudis or Algerians and Turks.

It's much more sensical to unite Arab world and seperate non-Arabs from it. Middle-East can only be a region, not an identity.


East Asian is more exclusive given the ethnic groups who encompass that category. The bulk of Europeans do cluster closest to one another so I dont find that to be vague. Middle eastern however, is much too broad, let alone this nonsensical bullshit "MENA" term. Like are you really going to lump people from Algeria in the same category with someone from the Caucasus region? They're like night and day. Whereas even your average Greek or Italian has ample overlap with people from Central Europe.

No it isn't, East Asian is quite confusing when you consider the fact that Vietnamese and Cantonese people are more phenotypically and culturally similar to each other, yet they are separated into East and South East.

These terms don't need to make entire sense, but they exist and it is incorrect to suggest they don't make sense. When you factor in Levantines and Egyptians, is there not a continuous cluster of all MENA's?

I could be wrong on this, but I haven't heard any convincing argument yet.

All these terms were invented by the West btw.

[Böri]

I think Turkey is culturally closer to Muslim Bosnia than Iraq.

Bosnia isn't Muslim that's a mixed country. And Bosniaks, from a historical or cultural point of view, they aren't closer to Turks than are Tunisians or Iraqis. They are very European in culture. Actually most Bosniaks are not distinguishable from their Serb neighbors in terms of lifestyle (dietary habits etc).

[Hadouken]

No it isn't, East Asian is quite confusing when you consider the fact that Vietnamese and Cantonese people are more phenotypically and culturally similar to each other, yet they are separated into East and South East.

These terms don't need to make entire sense, but they exist and it is incorrect to suggest they don't make sense. When you factor in Levantines and Egyptians, is there not a continuous cluster of all MENA's?

I could be wrong on this, but I haven't heard any convincing argument yet.

All these terms were invented by the West btw.

dude middle east and even more so "mena" are bullshit terms and the people have big differences . understand this already . Why do you want those terms to be valid so much ? it is very strange

[StonyArabia]

Maybe you will be suprised at my answer, but I consider Egypt and Saudi Arabia heart of mid-east.
Egypt is controversial choice, but I have reasons to say that. Iraq should be third core country, I guess,
Despite it has some external influences (mainly Iranian).

There are smaller countries in heart of mid-east like Jordan but these 3 are bigger and more relevant.

Iraq was the most powerful, prosperous nation in the region, it regressed due to the wars. Iraq is the brain, Egypt is the heart and Arabia is the body is a common saying in the Arab world. Iraq's Iranian influence are minimal. The western regions reject this, and many in the south to despite being Shias. Our culture is very Gulf like, only the Kurdish region differs.

[Jana]

What is Eurasian supposed to mean? I also don't know what a Northwest Asian category is or how is it distinct from Middle Eastern/Near Eastern. Turkey has always been classed as part of the Near East/Middle East by Europeans. The term "Middle East" has largely replaced the older term "Near East", while the latter was invented to refer to the Ottoman Empire(even its Balkan posessions!). Isn't Turkish civilization a mix of Persian and Byzantine civilizations anyway? How is it not Middle Eastern?

It should not be relevant how foreigners like Europeans class Asians, but how do They divide betwen themself.
NW and SW Asians are similar like Portugese and Norwegians are , not much despite both are West Euro and "Atlantic"
(Probably differences between NW and SW Asians are much greater than that)

MIddle East is similar term like Balkan, very controversial and with multiple meanings and given by foreigners rather than natives themself.

[Jana]

Iraq was the most powerful, prosperous nation in the region, it regressed due to the wars. Iraq is the brain, Egypt is the heart and Arabia is the body is a common saying in the Arab world. Iraq's Iranian influence are minimal. The western regions reject this, and many in the south to despite being Shias. Our culture is very Gulf like, only the Kurdish region differs.

:thumb001:

[arkas]

dude middle east and even more so "mena" are bullshit terms and the people have big differences . understand this already . Why do you want those terms to be valid so much ? it is very strange

Every term is vague, I don't see what the fuss is over. What is the correct term to use?

[StonyArabia]

It should not be relevant how foreigners like Europeans class Asians, but how do They divide betwen themself.
NE and SW Asians are similar like Portugese and Norwegians are , not much despite both are West Euro and "Atlantic"
(Probably differences between NW and SW Asians are much greater than that)

MIddle East is similar term like Balkan, very controversial and with multiple meanings and given by foreigners rather than natives themself.

Arabians and Bedouins and related population are very distant from Kurds, Armenians, Assyrians, Turks, genetically speaking.

[Nazarene]

There is no question about this. Iraq's culture is very Arabian and very Gulf like.

If you mean Tikrit and below it sure, (apart from the Bedouins who roam in the North).

[Hadouken]

Every term is vague, I don't see what the fuss is over. What is the correct term to use?

for turkey and surrounding : northwest asia

[Nazarene]

Iraq is the brain

Yes, highest IQ of the Middle East (87) lmao

[Jana]

Bosnia isn't Muslim that's a mixed country. And Bosniaks, from a historical or cultural point of view, they aren't closer to Turks than are Tunisians or Iraqis. They are very European in culture. Actually most Bosniaks are not distinguishable from their Serb neighbors in terms of lifestyle (dietary habits etc).

No They Arent. Bosniak Traditional culture is not European. Only due to communism it was diluted.

For me Crossing to Bosnia first time was cultural shock, it was different World.
Its not Bosnian muslims have European culture (its changing tough) but that Bosnian Christians Had Ottoman influenced culture like all Balkan Christians but in much smaller degree and after Ottoman Empire collapsed They tried to purge these elements from their culture and architecture but Bosniaks proudly kept it.

[StonyArabia]

If you mean Tikrit and below it sure, (apart from the Bedouins who roam in the North).

I called it the Kurdish region for simplicity, but yes north of Iraq is different in general aside from certain Bedouin areas.

[Böri]

No They Arent. Bosniak Traditional culture is not European. Only due to communism it was diluted.

For me Crossing to Bosnia first time was cultural shock, it was different World.
Its not Bosnian muslims have European culture (its changing tough) but that Bosnian Christians Had Ottoman influenced culture like all Balkan Christians but in much smaller degree and after Ottoman Empire collapsed They tried to purge these elements from their culture and architecture but Bosniaks proudly kept it.

What you say is relative. That's because you Catholic Croats are people who particularly care for your identity, that is Western, and drew clear lines between you and Serbs+Bosniaks since ever.

Here a Turkish Islamist cleric who visited Bosnia and he reports that they aren't so Muslim (or Ottoman as you would call), none praying and historically Bosniaks being people consuming pork as the ultra religious of them report.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgeyXhOlM8

Ottoman architecture is present in Balkans and Istanbul. There is no Ottoman architecture in Anatolia (east of Bursa) since that was a Balkan state. So, even if they were religious, they are still different.
In Anatolia you have Roman, Byzantine and Seljuk relics but you don't have anything Ottoman.

[StonyArabia]

Yes, highest IQ of the Middle East (87) lmao

I would not trust that it's much higher. This data came from Richard Lynn who has an agenda. Also interestingly other sources show a higher level. Not to mention we went through hell. Lynn said the balkans and south Italy have low IQ because of Mideast admixture and then he puts South Asian in the same category. He got angered when Sudanese Arabs actually scored 95 imao.

[FinalFlash]

No it isn't, East Asian is quite confusing when you consider the fact that Vietnamese and Cantonese people are more phenotypically and culturally similar to each other, yet they are separated into East and South East.

These terms don't need to make entire sense, but they exist and it is incorrect to suggest they don't make sense. When you factor in Levantines and Egyptians, is there not a continuous cluster of all MENA's?

I could be wrong on this, but I haven't heard any convincing argument yet.

All these terms were invented by the West btw.

Viets are outliers and clearly different from their SE Asian counterparts. Even then I believe they still border China. Including Vietnam in SE Asia is also wrong in the cultural and genetic sense.

The problem with this MENA term is that it's so downright nonsensical where the only factor that gives it any legitimacy is if the user wants to distinguish between Euros and non-Euros. Even then, that's still vague as you can get.

As our resident Arabian put it, there is a massive and stark difference between people who are merely a stone's throw away from one another. These massive differences are hardly evident elsewhere around the globe in all honesty.

[Jana]

Bosniaks are Pure Europan and Slavic people.
But despite Many are secular their culture is really not European. Btw after war They became more religious than before.
Their folk costumes, Traditional songs don't look and sound European at all.
Their vocabulary is Full with Turkish words, They don't have European Names in 90 percent of cases, their Food and coffee style isn't that much European. Etc.

[cyberlorian]

Definitely Middle Eastern. Turks are genetically and culturally closer to Arabs than any Europeans.

Which Arabs are you talking about? If Syrians, maybe. If Moroccans, Southwestern Europeans are closer to Moroccans rather than Turks are.

[Smeagol]

Which Arabs are you talking about? If Syrians, maybe. If Moroccans, Southwestern Europeans are closer to Moroccans rather than Turks are.

Levantines.

[lameduck]

I called it the Kurdish region for simplicity, but yes north of Iraq is different in general aside from certain Bedouin areas.

are these people good example of how mainstream iraqis as a group look, it is from capital


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFN2EsMhHg0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMPjT5YKUk

[Marmara]

What you say is relative. That's because you Catholic Croats are people who particularly care for your identity, that is Western, and drew clear lines between you and Serbs+Bosniaks since ever.

Here a Turkish Islamist cleric who visited Bosnia and he reports that they aren't so Muslim (or Ottoman as you would call), none praying and historically Bosniaks being people consuming pork as the ultra religious of them report.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgeyXhOlM8

Ottoman architecture is present in Balkans and Istanbul. There is no Ottoman architecture in Anatolia (east of Bursa) since that was a Balkan state. So, even if they were religious, they are still different.
In Anatolia you have Roman, Byzantine and Seljuk relics but you don't have anything Ottoman.

Smart Böri, using an Islamist's opinions. I thought you were hating them because they were trying to import Orthodox Islam which traditional Turkish culture is alien to?

[StonyArabia]

are these people good example of how mainstream iraqis as a group look, it is from capital


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFN2EsMhHg0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMPjT5YKUk

It has all ethnicities there so not really. Kurds, Armenians, Assyrians, Arabs, Bedouins, Turkmens very multiethnic. Also the central regions have strong Iranian influence, which my region lacks completely.

[Böri]

Smart Böri, using an Islamist's opinions. I thought you were hating them because they were trying to import Orthodox Islam which traditional Turkish culture is alien to?

Exactly Erab. After all Ottoman culture which that woman here refers to is an Islamist one. That's about wearing cloths like Arabs and Persians and living like them and their culture; Zoroastrian originated Zikir in middle of the streets etc. Ottomanist Islamists like Cübbeli are thus good reference to tell if the Bosniaks are on track and whether they are linked to Ottoman culture (best represented by them). Otherwise, that's not me who feels closer to Bosniaks than, say, to Tunisians. Obviously the Bosniaks aren't that different from Serbs, so even them dropping that identity.

[Marmara]

Exactly Erab. After all Ottoman culture which that woman here refers to is an Islamist one. That's about wearing cloths like Arabs and Persians and living like them and their culture; Zoroastrian originated Zikir in middle of the streets etc. Ottomanist Islamists like Cübbeli are thus good reference to tell if the Bosniaks are on track and whether they are linked to Ottoman culture (best represented by them). Otherwise, that's not me who feels closer to Bosniaks than, say, to Tunisians. Obviously the Bosniaks aren't that different from Serbs, so even them dropping that identity.

She said Bosniak culture is Ottoman, you have not disproven her statement by posting an Islamist's video. Cübbeli is in bed with Saudis and he would deny Ottoman culture if he wasn't interprating it to fit his agenda.

[Böri]

Nah. Cübbeli is defender of Ahlul Sunnah of the Hanefi branch, opposing Wahabbis with same aggressiveness as he opposes 'Safavids' (Shias).
His opinion best represents anything that supposedly links Turks to Bosniaks, that's the very Ottoman legacy.

And obviously, after he visited Bosnia he was shocked to see that they are not so distinguishable from Serbs. He reports from a Bosniak ultra-religious (marginal among Bosniaks) who told him 'before war, Serbs had wine and pork in their fridge so did us Bosniaks and we were marrying our girls with them'...

If you told about those Islamic Albos from Macedonia and Kosovo, I would still understand. Because even watching on Tv you see them caring for Muslim-Ottoman values.
Boşnaks are different story.

As I said, I am not racist. Well at least I am not a white racist. I won't favor the white-skinned Ottoman subject of Bosniaks over the Tunisians or Algerians (crescent-star flags!) who are the brown-skinned Ottoman subjects.
To me, they are same.
I feel close to neither.

[arkas]

Viets are outliers and clearly different from their SE Asian counterparts. Even then I believe they still border China. Including Vietnam in SE Asia is also wrong in the cultural and genetic sense.

The problem with this MENA term is that it's so downright nonsensical where the only factor that gives it any legitimacy is if the user wants to distinguish between Euros and non-Euros. Even then, that's still vague as you can get.

As our resident Arabian put it, there is a massive and stark difference between people who are merely a stone's throw away from one another. These massive differences are hardly evident elsewhere around the globe in all honesty.

Vietnam is not the only outlier, take the Okinawans of Japan, some say they have more in common with SE Asians than Northern Chinese, outside of Japan that is and North Chinese are unarguably East Asian.

I think the term MENA is just a little more confusing to some because of how it is literally in the Middle of so many different regions. I think these differences are overexaggerated though.

You make some good points, where do you see Armenia in all this btw?

[Jana]

Bosniaks are different case than Albanians who don't have Ottoman culture even if there are some influences because Albanian ethnicity existed (in pre-modern sense) before Ottomans and They don't divide themself religiously on muslim Catholic and orthodox. While there was Christian Bosnian Kingdom with distinct Identity from Croats and Serbs modern Bosniak Identity has nothing to do with it despite They are trying hard to connect to it nowadays.

Their Culture and Identity wouldnt exist in this form without Ottomans.

One example: in Ottoman , Austro-Hungarian and Communist Bosnia only Bosnian Catholics (Croats) cared and honored legacy of medieval Bosnia trough their Francisan Priests and monestaries.

Bosnian muslims and orthodox absolutely did not care for legacy of medieval Bosnia and totally neglected it (because it was Catholic and people identified with Religion than) and now Bosniaks are trying to show their Identity directly Descend from Medival Kingdom, which is laughable to anyone familiar with that area.

[Marmara]

Nah. Cübbeli is defender of Ahlul Sunnah of the Hanefi branch, opposing Wahabbis with same aggressiveness as he opposes 'Safavids' (Shias).
His opinion best represents anything that supposedly links Turks to Bosniaks, that's the very Ottoman legacy.

And obviously, after he visited Bosnia he was shocked to see that they are not so distinguishable from Serbs. He reports from a Bosniak ultra-religious (marginal among Bosniaks) who told him 'before war, Serbs had wine and pork in their fridge so did us Bosniaks and we were marrying our girls with them'...

He quotes the religious Bosniak who was complaining about the supposedly assimilation and was greatful that it has ended, and Allah save them, your narrative make it look like even the most ultra religious Bosniak is okay with haram consumption and intermarrying with Serbs, besides, he mentions that there was not much of a trace of Islam in Bosnia, and adds "There is like Istanbul".



As I said, I am not racist. Well at least I am not a white racist. I won't favor the white-skinned Ottoman subject of Bosniaks over the Tunisians or Algerians (crescent-star flags!) who are the brown-skinned Ottoman subjects.
To me, they are same.
I feel close to neither.

To you, not to everyone else. A Bosnian Muslim and a Tunisian Muslim are definetly not viewed the same here, is it the white racism?

[Ylla]

Do turks feel close to us or indifferent ?

[cyberlorian]

I'd say Middle Eastern. Nothing European about them.

West Asian would be the most proper one.

[Jana]

Many Bosnian muslims love Turkey and study in Istanbul.
Flights from Sarajevo to Turkey are most frequent and cheapest in the region.
Recently Arabs started pouring money into Bosnia and settling there, but Bosniaks don't like them in general neither feel closensees like They do with Turks. Arabs are foreign to them, Turks Not really.

PS another claim how medieval Bosnia only survived in Memory of Catholics - Names of Bosnian royals like Tvrtko and Katarina are traditonally only used by Croats , but I heard some Bosniaks started using them recently.

Bosnian Serbs use royal Names of Serbian medieval rulers (Nemanja, Dusan) on the other hand.

[StonyArabia]

Star and crescent are not only Turkic ,Arab groups like the Nabateans often had it in their artifacts. The Bedouins used the moon and stars for navigation, they also believed the moon was masculine and the sun feminine. Later it was adopted as an Islamic symbol due to its lunar calendar and the star mostly five pointed to symbolize the 5 pillars of faith.

[Böri]

He quotes the religious Bosniak who was complaining about the supposedly assimilation and was greatful that it has ended, and Allah save them, your narrative make it look like even the most ultra religious Bosniak is okay with haram consumption and intermarrying with Serbs, besides, he mentions that there was not much of a trace of Islam in Bosnia, and adds "There is like Istanbul".



To you, not to everyone else. A Bosnian Muslim and a Tunisian Muslim are definetly not viewed the same here, is it the white racism?

Yes that's giving priority to the lighter skinned one over the brown one.
That's an inherent racism and OWD. I don't claim that I am not racist, yet mine is different as can be guessed.

Actually, I said that the Bosniak reporting that was an ultrareligious one, similar to Cübbeli.
Cübbeli is an authority here, more than I or you shall ever be, because he is one (with his everything including his turban and cüppe) who represents the values you refer to.

Nothing makes a Tunisian less of an 'Ottoman' compared to a Bosniak. And the Tunisian is way more Ottoman than a Shaafi Chechen (also praised in Turkey by people you ''who arent like you'', for being not brown?)

Do turks feel close to us or indifferent ?

I feel closer to you, but personally to you ;)

[Marmara]

Do turks feel close to us or indifferent ?

All Balkan Muslims are socially accepted in Turkey unlike rest of Muslim world except some Caucasians. Even Turkmens are viewed more alien but Böri would never accept it due to his unreasonable Turkic agenda.

[TheMaestro]

Just western Asians, not European neither Arabs.

[StonyArabia]

Many Bosnian muslims love Turkey and study in Istanbul.
Flights from Sarajevo to Turkey are most frequent and cheapest in the region.
Recently Arabs started pouring money into Bosnia and settling there, but Bosniaks don't like them in general neither feel closensees like They do with Turks. Arabs are foreign to them, Turks Not really.

PS another claim how medieval Bosnia only survived in Memory of Catholics - Names of Bosnian royals like Tvrtko and Katarina are traditonally only used by Croats , but I heard some Bosniaks started using them recently.

Bosnian Serbs use royal Names of Serbian medieval rulers (Nemanja, Dusan) on the other hand.

Bosniaks are not really well liked by us to be honest. One their culture is very different from us. Only pan-islamists might but Arab/Arabian nationalists really don't.

[Böri]

All Balkan Muslims are socially accepted in Turkey unlike rest of Muslim world except some Caucasians. Even Turkmens are viewed more alien but Böri would never accept it due to his unreasonable Turkic agenda.

It's better and more consistent than your biased agenda to feel closer to the pork-eating 'Hadziomerovic' marrying his daughter to Serbs, while despising the Ottoman brown Tunisian waving crescent-star Ottoman flag. That's hidden form of OWD to desire the lighter-skinned one by someone who, supposedly, like you who doesn't EU or highlight Ottoman culture's closeness to Persian one than to the Byzantine one.

[StonyArabia]

I don't want pork eating Bosniaks in my regions. Plus they were brutal to the Arabian desert tribes when they we're mercenaries.

[Marmara]

Yes that's giving priority to the lighter skinned one over the brown one.
That's an inherent racism and OWD. I don't claim that I am not racist, yet mine is different as can be guessed.
[

Not at all, it's totally out of logic to put Bosniaks and Tunisians in the same place, former was directly ruled by Ottomans for much longer time and Bosniaks were directly converted by Ottomans, they belong to same religious school "Hanafi" and they even practice the Turkic tradition of Mevlüt which was integrated with Islam, many Bosniaks live in Turkey and there are many notable Bosniaks or half-Bosniaks in Turkish/Ottoman history.

Latter was not even ruled by Ottomans but only was a protectorate and for a much shorter period, Barbary states were autonomous, their religious habits are different, Tunisians are foreign to Turks and Turks were even forbidden to marry North Africans during Ottoman period.

[Jana]

Star and crescent are not only Turkic ,Arab groups like the Nabateans often had it in their artifacts. The Bedouins used the moon and stars for navigation, they also believed the moon was masculine and the sun feminine. Later it was adopted as an Islamic symbol due to its lunar calendar and the star mostly five pointed to symbolize the 5 pillars of faith.

Hungarian Szekely also use star and crescent flag, which may be Turkic influence I guess.

[Marmara]

It's better and more consistent than your biased agenda to feel closer to the pork-eating 'Hadziomerovic' marrying his daughter to Serbs, while despising the Ottoman brown Tunisian waving crescent-star Ottoman flag. That's hidden form of OWD to desire the lighter-skinned one by someone who, supposedly, like you who doesn't EU or highlight Ottoman culture's closeness to Persian one than to the Byzantine one.

It's you who is branwashed by this forum and making you alienate yourself from anything non-Turkic.

[Böri]

Then how about people preferring Chechens, who are Shaafites and never been in Ottoman sphere of influence, over Libyans who stayed Ottoman until 1908 (even Atatürk went there to fight Italian invaders)? What's that if that's not OWD and preferring the Chechens because they are white over brown Lybians?
Sorry, that's hypocrisy. That's not Islam or Muslim or Ottoman values, but a clear Owd.

[StonyArabia]

Hungarian Szekely also use star and crescent flag, which may be Turkic influence I guess.

I know, but it's not exclusively Turkic. We used this symbol in ancient times if you look at the Nabatean artifacts you will find it in plenty. As well various Bedouin groups used it throughout.

[Jana]

Bosnian muslims Called themself Turks in the past. Did Tunisians ever Called themself that ?

[Marmara]

Then how about people preferring Chechens, who are Shaafites and never been in Ottoman sphere of influence, over Libyans who stayed Ottoman until 1908 (even Atatürk went there to fight Italian invaders)? What's that if that's not OWD and preferring the Chechens because they are white over brown Lybians?
Sorry, that's hypocrisy. That's not Islam or Muslim or Ottoman values, but a clear Owd.

Nobody prefers Chechens you are inventing shit, people were only in favour of them for a period in their fight against Russians. Chechens are alien to Turkey and i yet to see an integrated one.

[Böri]

Bosnian muslims Called themself Turks in the past. Did Tunisians ever Called themself that ?

Turk meant Muslim in Europe back in Early Modern era. That changed during the 19th century in a sharp way.
I am OK with Bosniaks, they are kind people on their own. I also know some of them in my personal life. I don't have a problem with them actually they are hardworking people who contributed to Turkey. Here that's about a scientific approach to the subject.

[Jana]

Turk meant Muslim in Europe back in Early Modern era. That changed during the 19th century in a sharp way.
I am OK with Bosniaks, they are kind people on their own. I also know some of them in my personal life. I don't have a problem with them. Here that's about a scientific approach to the subject.

Yes, I know. Good post.

[Jana]

Nobody prefers Chechens you are inventing shit, people were only in favour of them for a period in their fight against Russians. Chechens are alien to Turkey and i yet to see an integrated one.

Circassians are much better integrated or not ?
I read in Russia Circassians are lot better integrated than Chechens.

[StonyArabia]

Bosnian muslims Called themself Turks in the past. Did Tunisians ever Called themself that ?

No they would not. The Bosniak mercenaries did. They had done a lot of war crimes.

[FinalFlash]

Vietnam is not the only outlier, take the Okinawans of Japan, some say they have more in common with SE Asians than Northern Chinese, outside of Japan that is and North Chinese are unarguably East Asian.

I think the term MENA is just a little more confusing to some because of how it is literally in the Middle of so many different regions. I think these differences are overexaggerated though.

You make some good points, where do you see Armenia in all this btw?

I dont see Armenia in this MENA category at all. The more and more I see faces of people from Armenia and the more so-called Menas being posted here the more I confirm this to myself. Politically and socioeconomically its objectively not part of the region. I think we are distinct but if I had to place us somewhere, itd be the Caucasus region. I see us like I would see Cyprus, Turkey or Georgia. Neither truly here nor there

[Marmara]

Circassians are much better integrated or not ?
I read in Russia Circassians are lot better integrated than Chechens.

Circassians are assimilated and are held no different than Turks, at least in Istanbul, maybe in rural area there could be distinction.

Chechens are alien, but there are many Circassians and very few Chechens in Turkey, still, Chechen immigrants/refugees were in contact with Al Qaeda and committed terror attacks.

[Kivan]

Circassians are much better integrated or not ?
I read in Russia Circassians are lot better integrated than Chechens.

Yes, they are. But they are aware of their heritage and many self-identify as such. Don't know about Chechens.

[Marmara]

My cousin has recently married with a Half Bosniak half Circassian, nobody views her anything exotic or alien, she is viewed the same as Turks and also views herself as such.

It would not be the same with a Tunisian or Chechen, definetly not.

[Böri]

There are 100k Chechens in Turkey, you simply don't notice them or think they are Çerkez because people in Turkey still think all N. Caucasians are Adygean. Only distinction made in Turkey among Caucasus people is: all N. Caucasians are Circasians and only Georgians are different. Actually, last month police officer who lost his wife and baby in Pkk bombing attack in Hakkari was ethnic Chechen family from Sivas region.
So, the Chechens are 'even more integrated' than Bosniaks or so.
You can't see a Bosniak fighting Pkk, their 'Europeaness' makes them just too worthy for not risking themselves in the east.
Chechens being not Ottomans (just as Circassians weren't) and Chechens not even being Hanefi while Circassians being so.

If you are Muslim with light skin you are preferred over brown Muslims (Kurd, Arab etc) in Turkey. That's the cold truth. That's the reason why Pork-eating Bosniaks from Bosnia would still any time be preferred to any Lybian or so. That's the hypocrite Ottoman-Muzzie, white-oriented racism in Turkey.

Like I said, I am not white racist.
My idea and standards being completely different.

[Thanas Django]

what is Hanefi?

[Marmara]

There are 100k Chechens in Turkey, you simply don't notice them or think they are Çerkez because people in Turkey still think all N. Caucasians are Adygean. Actually, last month police officer who lost his wife and baby in Pkk bombing attack in Hakkari was ethnic Chechen family from Sivas region.
So, the Chechens are 'even more integrated' than Bosniaks or so. Chechens being not Ottomans (just as Circassians weren't) and Chechens not even being Hanefi while Circassians being so.

If you are Muslim with light skin you are preferred over brown Muslims (Kurd, Arab etc) in Turkey. That's the cold truth. That's the reason why Pork-eating Bosniaks from Bosnia would still any time be preferred to any Lybian or so. That's the hypocrite Ottoman-Muzzie, white-oriented racism in Turkey.

Like I said, I am not white racist.
My idea and standards being completely different.

Chechens are known for being islamic extremists, you can't call these people integrated.

How does your example even prove Chechens are integrated? Women wear burqas men grow beards and they mostly support Islamic regime.

[StonyArabia]

what is Hanefi?

It's a school of Sunni Islam. In Sunni Islam there is four schools Hanafi, Sha'fi , Hanbali, and Malaki. Hanafi is common from Balkan to Pakistan, sha'fi common in Yemen, Indonesia, Levant, Sunni Kurds. Hanabli interior Arabia, malaki North Africa, UAE, Kuwait, southern Iraqi Arab Sunnis and Omani said Sunnis.

[Crimean]

Turkey is a successful symbiosis of Europe and the Middle East, and my favorite country for tourism. I was there 2 times, between Istanbul and Izmir for the first time, and in Alanya and Cappadocia in the second. Will definitely go there again.
1) Secular state, no Sharia and throwing stones, of course. People look almost indistinguishable from Italians, and I liked the look of local women even more, they are somehow juicier, as I like. Plus, hospitality and attitude to tourists, in Europe things are worse with that.
2) Great food, lots of attractions, the country seems safe. Natural diversity, the country is quite large.
3) Affordable prices and no visa is also important.
In short, Turkey is a kind of bridge between Europe and Western Asia, the extreme points of the country differ quite significantly.

[Böri]

Chechens are known for being islamic extremists, you can't call these people integrated.

How does your example even prove Chechens are integrated? Women wear burqas men grow beards and they mostly support Islamic regime.

Chechens in Turkey are virtually all from 1864 Russian Ops in the Caucasus and deporting Circassians and some around.
They aren't same as Wahabbi Chechens you see in beheading videos or so.

[Marmara]

Chechens in Turkey are virtually all from 1864 Russian Ops in the Caucasus and deporting Circassians and some around.
They aren't same as Wahabbi Chechens you see in beheading videos or so.

They would be the exception then, they live in Turkey for more than a century. I was focusing rather on the original Chechens still live in their homeland or recent refugees after Russian invasion. Chechen refugees are not the same as Yugoslavian refugees.

[Yaglakar]

Turkey is a successful symbiosis of Europe and the Middle East, and my favorite country for tourism. I was there 2 times, between Istanbul and Izmir for the first time, and in Alanya and Cappadocia in the second. Will definitely go there again.
1) Secular state, no Sharia and throwing stones, of course. People look almost indistinguishable from Italians, and I liked the look of local women even more, they are somehow juicier, as I like. Plus, hospitality and attitude to tourists, in Europe things are worse with that.
2) Great food, lots of attractions, the country seems safe. Natural diversity, the country is quite large.
3) Affordable prices and no visa is also important.
In short, Turkey is a kind of bridge between Europe and Western Asia, the extreme points of the country differ quite significantly.

Are Crimean Tatars in any way similar to Turks. Food, behavior, habits etc?

[Marmara]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Istanbul_suicide_bombing

I can't imagine a Bosniak, Albanian or Circassian doing this in Turkey.

[Böri]

Crimean Tatars are kinda Turks. Their mountainer ones are Kipchak speaker, while their coastal ones from south are Oghuzians so entirely like us.
They can't be compared with 'pork-eating' (?) Bosniaks or Semitic Arabs in this regard.

[Gangrel]

Genetically Turks are closer to Levantine Arabs than any Greeks.

Not only is that wrong, but it actually applies to Jews like yourself lel

[Böri]

I didn't know Smeagol was provocative Kike btw. Good to know.

[Smeagol]

Not only is that wrong, but it actually applies to Jews like yourself lel

No, I'm right as usual and Ashkenazi Jews are actually closer to all Greek groups than to Levantines.
https://image.ibb.co/gKWmqf/EURO-PCA-v3.jpg

Furthermore, Again, I'm mostly of Northern European ancestry. Even Anglojew who's much more Jewish than I am clusters with North Italians.

[Smeagol]

I didn't know Smeagol was provocative Kike btw. Good to know.

According to Nazi German law i'm not even a Mischling. Also I fail to see how answering the OP's question accurately is being provocative.

[Crimean]

Are Crimean Tatars in any way similar to Turks. Food, behavior, habits etc?
The similarity between the Crimean Tatars and the Volga Tatars is practically absent. The main ethno-forming element of the Crimean Tatars are the Oguzes, who migrated from Antalya.
In short, these are the Turkish people with a taste of the USSR. The mentality is similar, but the difference is that the Crimean Tatars are less satisfied with their lives than the Turks.
There are also Tatars of Kipchak origin in the Crimea, but they live in the steppe part and they are closer to the nomadic Türks in terms of mentality, for example, to the Nogai people.

[Böri]

The similarity between the Crimean Tatars and the Volga Tatars is practically absent. The main ethno-forming element of the Crimean Tatars are the Oguzes, who migrated from Antalya.
In short, these are the Turkish people with a taste of the USSR. The mentality is similar, but the difference is that the Crimean Tatars are less satisfied with their lives than the Turks.

Volga Tatars are not distinguishable from Russians in outlook and culture actually. Pretty much how Bosniaks and Serbs aren't that different save names and some historical relics.
Crimean Tatars are pretty much different. Their Oghuz speakers are from Seljuk era. Sultan Ala'eddin from Rum conquered Sudak for a short while during early 13th century, just before Mongol invasions. That's how Oghuz language rooted itself in that relatively remote region.

[ooops]

Turkey is both Middle Eastern and European

[Kamal900]

The Middle East is a geographic term not a genetic one. I have zero to do with Iranians for example but I am related to some Levantine ethnicities.

Like Palestinians and Jordanians for example? True. We're around 30% Arabians genetically on average.

[Watson]

brown and muslim go figure

[Watson]

I didn't know Smeagol was provocative Kike btw. Good to know.

you turned out to be a provocative gypsy mongol. stupid too.

[Kamal900]

It's mostly west asian with some being in Europe.

[Crimean]

Volga Tatars are not distinguishable from Russians in outlook and culture actually. Pretty much how Bosniaks and Serbs aren't that different save names and some historical relics.
I will not talk about the religious and cultural differences in our time, but how to explain the unique phenotypes of the small part of Tatars, which can not be found in the neighboring Russians? Arab or Khazar admix? Where are they from in the Volga region?

[archangel]

There is not much difference between Volga and Crimean Tatars when it comes to apperance

[Böri]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Istanbul_suicide_bombing

I can't imagine a Bosniak, Albanian or Circassian doing this in Turkey.

Parts of Circassians and Abazas did during the Greco-Turkish war. They militarily sided with Greeks (like how the stupid ape here on TA being offended when we tease Greeks). When I talk that's scientifical, not based on preference. Prefering a Bosniak over a Lybian is a choice of yours (and the many millions), there is no scientific motive behind it considering the Bosniak like the Lybian shares the same amount of history and culture as each other in regards to Turks.
One can't be said closer to Turks than to others based on sociology, culture, common history etc (Bosnia was lost in 1876, while Lybia in 1908).
Most people in Turkey prefer Bosniak (or say a Circassian) over Lybians because simply Bosniaks are white and Lybians are brown.
I don't have a problem with it btw.



I will not talk about the religious and cultural differences in our time, but how to explain the unique phenotypes of the small part of Tatars, which can not be found in the neighboring Russians? Arab or Khazar admix? Where are they from in the Volga region?

I was also talking about outlook. But as you say some Volga Tatars are physically different.

[Crimean]

There is not much difference between Volga and Crimean Tatars when it comes to apperance
There are differences. The Volga Tatars have a large overlap with the Russians, the Nordids and the Baltids are quite common among them, plus a number of endemic types.
The Crimean Tatars from the southern coast are very similar to the Turks, and from the steppe zone to the Nogais. Overlap with Russians seeks to a minimum.

[Seth MacFarlane]

if by middle eastern you mean west asian yes , but turks arent similiar to "arabs " , only south east has some affinities with north levantines who arent real " arabs " . their more akin to groups of the Caucasus and west is a lil balkan shifted

[Jana]

Volga Tatars are not distinguishable from Russians in outlook and culture actually. Pretty much how Bosniaks and Serbs aren't that different save names and some historical relics.
Crimean Tatars are pretty much different. Their Oghuz speakers are from Seljuk era. Sultan Ala'eddin from Rum conquered Sudak for a short while during early 13th century, just before Mongol invasions. That's how Oghuz language rooted itself in that relatively remote region.

That's because large amount of Volga Tatar genepool is Finnic yet they switched to Turkic language. Ofocurse they have limited Turkic admixture too, and some Slavic because mixing with Russians doesn't seem super rare.

[archangel]

Many so called Russians in the Volga Region are slavisied Turks and Finno Ugrics hence physical similarities

[archangel]

There are differences. The Volga Tatars have a large overlap with the Russians, the Nordids and the Baltids are quite common among them, plus a number of endemic types.
The Crimean Tatars from the southern coast are very similar to the Turks, and from the steppe zone to the

Nogais. Overlap with Russians seeks to a minimum.

Many so called Russians in the Volga Region are slavisied Turks and Finno Ugrics hence physical similarities

[Decius]

It is neither but closer to Middle Eastern populations then European populations.

[Nattens Madrigal]

Both Europe and MENA were our slaves. :thumb001:

[Marmara]

Both Europe and MENA were our slaves. :thumb001:

Bu dediğin gereksiz ayrıca doğru değil.

[Nattens Madrigal]

Bu yarrak kafalarının dilinden konuşmak gerek.

[Watson]

Both Europe and MENA were our slaves. :thumb001:

turks are mena

[Watson]

Many so called Russians in the Volga Region are slavisied Turks and Finno Ugrics hence physical similarities

many turks are turkicized iranics, gypsies, arabs, west asians, europeans hence physical similarities.

[Ayetooey]

Middle Eastern.

[The Lawspeaker]

Middle Eastern. They were/are a hostile Middle Eastern invader. The Ataturk Government wisely tried to steer it towards Europe, but now they have chosen their destiny.

[Catarinense1998]

I think Turkey dont fit in these rules and generalizations. West-Asian, A mix of muslims traditions with western mind. Hard tô say anything. Better hear what turks members think.

[Ryujin]

Turkey is a transcontinental Eurasian country.

https://geekyapar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Jim-Carrey-2-e1530525730428.jpg

[Ryujin]

To answer OP question , Turkey is Eurasian.

It's European part is Balkan, not Southern Europe, and its much more significant Asian part is northwest Asian not Middle Eastern. Turks are more Asian than European, but with some European admixture and Middle Eastern Religion.

Christianity is Middle Eastern too, just saying. Also the understanding and practicing of religion differs by region. Europeans do not practice Christianity the same way Arab Christians do, you get the idea.

Things that are usually permitted in Islamic culture like polygamy are not accepted in Turkish society. Also Turkish women dress more liberally and Hijab is not necessarily a standard like in most Muslim Middle Eastern countries. Turkey, Albania, Bosnia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan etc. follow their own liberal interpretation of Islam.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/pbox.php?url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/05/sharia-map.jpg&w=1484&op=resize&opt=1&filter=antialias&t=20170517

[Kriptc06]

Transition between both, they are in between, hard to say.

[Ryujin]

Also I believe some Balkan Muslims like Kosovans are MUCH MORE Islamic than Turks, at least those living in metropolitan cities. I know some Kosovans who refuse to drink and dress in niqab/hijab whereas many Turks drink alcohol and women dress more liberally. Also a close Albanian friend of mine who has studied in Turkey admits that Kosovans are much more Islamic-shifted.

Since Turkey is a large country unlike Albania and Kosovo, it is harder to classify, but its metropolitan areas and Western parts are more or less like Bosnia and Albania, I'd say. I've never been to the Eastern parts so I can't say to what extent they are culturally Islamic but I was in a Central Anatolian rural town called Bolu and even there, despite the lack of pubs, it was not really hard to find a liquor store and many young uncovered women and men were sitting together and chatting at cafe houses that line alongside the street. I was surprised to be honest since I know that rural non-metropolitan parts tend to be more culturally Islamic but it was not all that alien, I'd say.

[Ryuk]

There's a lot of writing and most of it is rubish.Europeans generally come from small and homogeneous countries,they thinks Turkey like them.

However, Turkey has a wide variety of population, geography and culture.I'il explain it to you now.(Only ethnic Turks and their areas of majority)

1-)eastern Trace region

81368

Genetic=ethnic Turks have 5% to 10% of eastern Asia and Siberia(Turkic) component carries,but are highly Bosniak,Albanian,pomak,patriot(Muslim Greek) population.

Phenotype=fits to Balkan and central Europe,even to Nordic countries.

Culture=Small Bulgaria.

Ideology=strict secularism and Kemalism,in general, Europe and Balkan peoples and cultures like and adopt.


https://youtu.be/n16XPxCVD10

2 -) coastal Aegean region

81369

Genotype = 10% - 20% turkic component.There is a certain amount of Bosniak,Albanian,Pomak.

Phenotype=similar to Eastern Thrace.

Culture=similar to eastern Trace,the only difference is the effect of Greek culture.

Ideology=same as eastern Thrace.


3-)western Marmara region

81370

Genotype=same as above.

Phenotype=like above,but can be seen in Anatolian and Caucasian phenotypes.

Culture=a mixture of the culture of Oghuz and the above.

Ideology=both Kemalists and the AKP are strong in the region.The AKPist adopted European culture in general,the only difference is in them that cultural conservatism is stronger.


https://youtu.be/dhmwi6H3ZvI

4-)eastern Marmara region

81371

Genotype=the same as the aboves,there is a certain degree of Caucasian immigration.

Phenotype=same as the West Marmara.

Culture=same as the West Marmara

Ideology=important Kemalist population,but the AKP is stronger, however, the AKP here is similar to the West Marmara.


https://youtu.be/sgtd7GrodAA

5-)Internal Aegean

81372

Genotype = 10% - 15% turkic component

Culture=similar to eastern Marmara,but the culture of Iran and Oguz is a bit more intense.

Ideology=same as eastern marmara


https://youtu.be/JzN-lfHrdUE

6-)Mediterranean region(except Hatay)

81373

Genotype=10%-15% Turkic component,Balkan and Caucasian immigrate can be seen.

Phenotype=Balkan,Anatolia,Caucasia mixture.

Culture=coastal regions are similar to coastal aegean,interior dominates by nomadic Oghuz culture(yörük).

Ideology=coastal region Kemalist,secular,nationalist.The interior regions are like the eastern Marmara.

7-)western Black Sea

81374

Genotype=10%-15% turkic,regions is ethnically very homogenous.

Phenotype = similar to the Balkans.

Culture=Oghuz and Iranian culture mix

Ideology=they have adopted European culture but cultural conservatism is strong.The AKP is very strong,but they are not fanatical supporters.


https://youtu.be/mG0ebOVUy-I


8-)middle Black Sea

81375


Genotype=between 10% and 15% turkic in general,this rate increases in areas where the chepni population is dense,Caucasian immigrants are concentrated in some areas.

Phenotype=Balkan,Anatolia,Caucasian mixture.Turanid phenotype dominates the chepni areas.

Culture=similar to the western Black Sea.

Ideology=European lifestyle is accepted, but cultural conservatism and extreme nationalism are very common.The AKP is very strong.


https://youtu.be/JkefbEfv8h4

9-)eastern Black Sea

81376

Genotype = 0% Turkic, 100% kartvel

Phenotype = Caucasus

Culture = the culture of kartvelian dominates.

Ideology=where the Laz population is concentrated is secular,social democrat and AKP is weak.The Turks are extremely nationalist and Erdogan fanatics.The castle of the AKP.


https://youtu.be/5ZCsYWRu4bI

10-)central Anatolia

81377

Genotype = 5% - 10% of Turkic, Caucasian immigrants and Kurds are concentrated in the some areas.

Phenotype=Anatolian and Middle Eastern phenotype dominant.Some Balkan and Caucasian phenotypes can be found.

Culture=Oghuz and Iranian culture dominates with strong islamic elements

Ideology=the castle of the AKP.Fundamentalism and conservatism are very powerful.


https://youtu.be/4CkH-MnfyWA

11 -) Hatay

81378

Genotype=there is an important Arab population,turks like central Anatolia.

Phenotype=Anatolia and Middle East

Culture=İn arabs Levantine,alawite dominates.The Turks are like Central Anatolia.

ideology=Turks are like Central Anatolia,but the region is heavily populated with nusayri(Arab Alevis) and the nusayris are secular, kemalist or socialist


https://youtu.be/zzASpdU8HoU

12-)Alevis(Turkic one)

81379

There are three different Alevi populations in Turkey.Nusayri,the Turkish Alevis and the Kurdish-zaza Alevis are intense in Dersim region.I will only handle the Turkish ones.

Genotype=too much gene analysis was not done, but what was done was not different from the other Turks.

Phenotype=varies depending on the region they are located.

Culture = Alevis is a unique culture.a mixture of Shiite iranic culture and Oghuz culture.


https://youtu.be/sAV2MekYFl8

[Rgvgjhvv]

They are technically both. Turks can decide what they wanna be. Though I wouldn't place them in the Middle East, but more accurate West Asia.

So West Asia or Europe - whatever they wanna think they are. Who cares

[Marmara]

...

Türkiyede mi yaşıyorsun? Koyduğun videolar çok saçma ve anlamsız, ne diye gidip arnavut kızlarını ve çomar kadını paylaşıyorsun?

[Ryuk]

Türkiyede mi yaşıyorsun? Koyduğun videolar çok saçma ve anlamsız, ne diye gidip arnavut kızlarını ve çomar kadını paylaşıyorsun?

this kind of "Albanian"music in Thrace is popular.It's not a shame thing.

Central Anatolia is now under a terrible "çomar" epidemic,the more people recognize them, the more people are protected from them.

[lameduck]

There's a lot of writing and most of it is rubish.Europeans generally come from small and homogeneous countries,they thinks Turkey like them.

However, Turkey has a wide variety of population, geography and culture.I'il explain it to you now.(Only ethnic Turks and their areas of majority)




awesome post I think this sentence summed it well

[Kelmendasi]

Well, according to my haplogroup my Turkic ancestors already were in Balkans, before Ottomans. Nobody kidnapped or raped during Ottomans too.

On the other hand my one side directly Bulgarian. So have nothing to do with Ottomans.

I don't care being European btw, i'm proud with my blood.
How so, what was you haplogroup?

[Kelmendasi]

Bosniaks are Pure Europan and Slavic people.
But despite Many are secular their culture is really not European. Btw after war They became more religious than before.
Their folk costumes, Traditional songs don't look and sound European at all.
Their vocabulary is Full with Turkish words, They don't have European Names in 90 percent of cases, their Food and coffee style isn't that much European. Etc.
To me their folk costume looks Balkan but just with some Turkish influence such as the fez.

http://1301.nccdn.net/4_4/000/000/1c2/ad6/2929_1274710281_240_2929.jpg

http://ss1.spletnik.si/4_4/000/000/1c2/ad0/2860_1274710264_233_2860.jpg

[Ryujin]

To me their folk costume looks Balkan but just with some Turkish influence such as the fez.

http://1301.nccdn.net/4_4/000/000/1c2/ad6/2929_1274710281_240_2929.jpg

http://ss1.spletnik.si/4_4/000/000/1c2/ad0/2860_1274710264_233_2860.jpg

Fez is banned for good.

[Kelmendasi]

Also I believe some Balkan Muslims like Kosovans are MUCH MORE Islamic than Turks, at least those living in metropolitan cities. I know some Kosovans who refuse to drink and dress in niqab/hijab whereas many Turks drink alcohol and women dress more liberally. Also a close Albanian friend of mine who has studied in Turkey admits that Kosovans are much more Islamic-shifted.

Since Turkey is a large country unlike Albania and Kosovo, it is harder to classify, but its metropolitan areas and Western parts are more or less like Bosnia and Albania, I'd say. I've never been to the Eastern parts so I can't say to what extent they are culturally Islamic but I was in a Central Anatolian rural town called Bolu and even there, despite the lack of pubs, it was not really hard to find a liquor store and many young uncovered women and men were sitting together and chatting at cafe houses that line alongside the street. I was surprised to be honest since I know that rural non-metropolitan parts tend to be more culturally Islamic but it was not all that alien, I'd say.
Muslim Albanians aren't religious, in Albania you can hardly see people wearing the hijab and drinking alcohol is common. I don't know that much about the Kosovar Albanians though as I haven't been to Kosovo but going by the ones that I have met, they weren't religious either. I doubt as a whole that Albanians are more Islamic than Turks

[Kelmendasi]

Fez is banned for good.
Really? Didn't know that lol

[Ryujin]

Really? Didn't know that lol

Fez was banned by Atatürk and replaced with modern hat. But of course; The Hollywood portrayal and general lack of knowledge creates the notion that Turks are still wearing the Fez.

Fez is of Greek origin anyway.

[Kelmendasi]

Fez was banned by Atatürk and replaced with modern hat. But of course; The Hollywood portrayal and general lack of knowledge creates the notion that Turks are still wearing the Fez.

Fez is of Greek origin anyway.
Why ban it?

[Ryujin]

Muslim Albanians aren't religious, in Albania you can hardly see people wearing the hijab and drinking alcohol is common. I don't know that much about the Kosovar Albanians though as I haven't been to Kosovo but going by the ones that I have met, they weren't religious either. I doubt as a whole that Albanians are more Islamic than Turks

I referred to Kosovars, it is based on my observation. Albania has a significant Orthodox population so it is less Islamic for sure, but in terms of religious practice Turkey is in the same group with Balkan Muslims. As you said, alcohol consumption is common and Turkish women dress liberally here as well as opposed to the Middle East.

[Kelmendasi]

I referred to Kosovars, it is based on my observation. Albania has a significant Orthodox population so it is less Islamic for sure, but in terms of religious practice Turkey is in the same group with Balkan Muslims. As you said, alcohol consumption is common and Turkish women dress liberally here as well as opposed to the Middle East.
Catholics are pretty significant as well, especially in the northwest.

[Kaspias]

So you are real Bolgar Turk with real Lineage Q, and Blood.

Nice to meet you.

I'm not sure Bolgar Turk or any other Steppe Turk.


How so, what was you haplogroup?

Q-L330.

[Kelmendasi]

I'm not sure Bolgar Turk or any other Steppe Turk.



Q-L330.
Yh it would seem that it arrived before the Ottomans through some other Turkic source. I think Turkic Bulgars would be a safe bet, though many of the subclades are found in places that these Turks had no contact so another source is also probable.

[Kaspias]

Yh it would seem that it arrived before the Ottomans through some other Turkic source. I think Turkic Bulgars would be a safe bet, though many of the subclades are found in places that these Turks had no contact so another source is also probable.

When we look my autosomal it is more likely to a Turkmen ancestry who came from Anatolia. I have high East Eurasian admixture and people from Balkans usually don't carry more than 2~3 East Eurasian admixture, even actual Balkan Turks too. It is hard to carry your Turkic blood for 1000 years especially in Balkans.

On the other hand in Turkey and Azerbaijani there is no Q-L330 sample. Also even in Turkmenistan, Tadjikstan, Uzbekistan too. It is mostly observed in Russia, Kazakhstan, Hungary. I saw one ethnic Greek with Q-L330 btw. It was surprising. Q Spreading in Turkey just about 3-6% and they are different subclades.

I don't know which one is more reliable, nowadays i'm searching our family surname-nickname that remain from Ottoman era. It is clearly point out a Turkic group that living around Danube and speaking different language from Oghuz. My paternal grandfather is from Dobrich/Bulgaria. So it makes sense.

[MsSPF]

This topic has been discussed/debated like a thousand of times in the forum...

[Kelmendasi]

When we look my autosomal it is more likely to a Turkmen ancestry who came from Anatolia. I have high East Eurasian admixture and people from Balkans usually don't carry more than 2~3 East Eurasian admixture, even actual Balkan Turks too. It is hard to carry your Turkic blood for 1000 years especially in Balkans.

On the other hand in Turkey and Azerbaijani there is no Q-L330 sample. Also even in Turkmenistan, Tadjikstan, Uzbekistan too. It is mostly observed in Russia, Kazakhstan, Hungary. I saw one ethnic Greek with Q-L330 btw. It was surprising. Q Spreading in Turkey just about 3-6% and they are different subclades.

I don't know which one is more reliable, nowadays i'm searching our family surname-nickname that remain from Ottoman era. It is clearly point out a Turkic group that living around Danube and speaking different language from Oghuz. My paternal grandfather is from Dobrich/Bulgaria. So it makes sense.
I don't think Turkmen as it seems to be more northern and not present in the nations that have Turkmens. The Q-L330 in Russia seems to belong to two clades, one is Q-BZ99(found in the Pskov oblast area) whilst the other is Q-YP1692(found in the Kemerovo oblast area), YP1692 is also a downstream of BZ99. The Russian L330 clades share the same ancestral clade as the ones found in Kazakhstan, Q-YP1102. The L330 in Hungary however is from the brother clade of YP1102 and they are split by around 7,900 years. This brother clade is Q-YP771 and isn't likely to represent the same migrations as it's brother clade. In Hungary the subclade of YP771 found was BZ427 which was found in the Nograd county. Maybe it is of Avar origin or something. The Greeks with Q-L330 are actually Romaniote Jews from Ioannina.

[Ryujin]

This topic has been discussed/debated like a thousand of times in the forum...

Vous avez raison, madame. :)

[Jana]

When we look my autosomal it is more likely to a Turkmen ancestry who came from Anatolia. I have high East Eurasian admixture and people from Balkans usually don't carry more than 2~3 East Eurasian admixture, even actual Balkan Turks too. It is hard to carry your Turkic blood for 1000 years especially in Balkans.

On the other hand in Turkey and Azerbaijani there is no Q-L330 sample. Also even in Turkmenistan, Tadjikstan, Uzbekistan too. It is mostly observed in Russia, Kazakhstan, Hungary. I saw one ethnic Greek with Q-L330 btw. It was surprising. Q Spreading in Turkey just about 3-6% and they are different subclades.

I don't know which one is more reliable, nowadays i'm searching our family surname-nickname that remain from Ottoman era. It is clearly point out a Turkic group that living around Danube and speaking different language from Oghuz. My paternal grandfather is from Dobrich/Bulgaria. So it makes sense.

Tatars perhaps ? There were Tatars living in Dobruja/Dobrogea around Danube, and I hear some are there even today on Romanian side at least.

[Phenix]

Turkey is a synthesis, but culturally it is closer to MENA than to Europe.

[Kelmendasi]

There is Q-L330 in Serbia, it is found in Gulijan. There is also a Q-L332 person from Turkey, he belongs to the same ancestral clade as the one found in Hungarians

[Kaspias]

I don't think Turkmen as it seems to be more northern and not present in the nations that have Turkmens. The Q-L330 in Russia seems to belong to two clades, one is Q-BZ99(found in the Pskov oblast area) whilst the other is Q-YP1692(found in the Kemerovo oblast area), YP1692 is also a downstream of BZ99. The Russian L330 clades share the same ancestral clade as the ones found in Kazakhstan, Q-YP1102. The L330 in Hungary however is from the brother clade of YP1102 and they are split by around 7,900 years. This brother clade is Q-YP771 and isn't likely to represent the same migrations as it's brother clade. In Hungary the subclade of YP771 found was BZ427 which was found in the Nograd county. Maybe it is of Avar origin or something. The Greeks with Q-L330 are actually Romaniote Jews from Ioannina.

Thanks for the information. I think i need to take Y-67 or Y-111 for deep information.

Kemerovo seems normal-expected but Pskov is surprising.

[StonyArabia]

Both Europe and MENA were our slaves. :thumb001:

No only Europeans imao

[Kaspias]

There is Q-L330 in Serbia, it is found in Gulijan. There is also a Q-L332 person from Turkey, he belongs to the same ancestral clade as the one found in Hungarians

Well not surprising also it could be a proof. Gulijan is near the Pirot.

Some historians claimed Shops are descendants of Pecheneks. My Pomak side's surname is Şop, this could explain my high east eurasian too.

https://image.ibb.co/gOWBVq/Shopluk-region-map.png

Where are this Turkish person from? Do you know?

[Kelmendasi]

Well not surprising also it could be a proof. Gulijan is near the Pirot.

Some historians claimed Shops are descendants of Pecheneks. My Pomak side's surname is Şop, this could explain my high east eurasian too.

https://image.ibb.co/gOWBVq/Shopluk-region-map.png

Where are this Turkish person from? Do you know?
He’s from the Balikesir province in western Turkey

[Kaspias]

Turks are not close to Arabs, they are not close both genetically and culturally.

Turkey is genetically a mix of Europe, Anatolia and Central Asia. Culturally still mostly Central Asian.

Western Turks closer to Greeks and Eastern Turks closer to Caucasians. Except their East Eurasian admixture.

Why do Americans like to speak without enough knowledge?

LoLeL thumbed down my post.

Come here and explain what you disliked in this text.

[rein]

Central Asian.

[Gründig]

What is this weird obsession everyone on this forum has with Turkey?

[onetwopunch]

What is this weird obsession everyone on this forum has with Turkey?

Inferiority complex of non Turks.

[itilvolga]

None of them

[Prinses]

It is Eurasia. Only a little part is in the balkans and the rest is just in Asia so that will make it Eurasia like Russia. In general we don't share that much with middle eastern and Turkey is seculair.

[Kivan]

None of them

Tekrar hoş geldin, itilvolga.

[Teutone]

Europe = Okzident

Turkey = Orient

[Ryujin]

It is Eurasia. Only a little part is in the balkans and the rest is just in Asia so that will make it Eurasia like Russia. In general we don't share that much with middle eastern and Turkey is seculair.

The little part in Balkans including Izmir has over 20 million population, larger than that of many countries.

Istanbul is Turkey's largest city and it is geographically in Europe. Izmir is also Balkan and even Western-like. :P

[itilvolga]

Tekrar hoş geldin, itilvolga.

Hoşbulduk :o

[Dacul]

Most Turkic ethnics from Turkey score as highest admixture Anatolian.
That is SE European, not Middle Eastern.
They also have Caucasian admixture, which is again European not Middle Easterner.
From a cultural point of view, they are not Middle Easterners either.
If you want to make an opinion about how Turkey is, maybe you should visit the country and spend at least 1 week there?

And if you think Middle East is not civilized and so on,it depends on the country, but in most cases,is at least civilized if not very civilized.
Irak and Iran are not actually part of the Middle East.Ok Iraq can be included in the Middle East, but Iran,no.
Middle East is Israel and the Arab countries from the area.

[Pigling]

Even regular Southern Europeans today have high amount of Middle Eastern influence genetically speaking, let alone Turks.

[LoLeL]

Middle Eastern and Brown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Middle_East_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg/600px-Middle_East_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Russian_poster.JPG/640px-Russian_poster.JPG

[lonewolfcypriot]

Turkey is Asian genetically, geographically, religiously and historically, however the context of this thread is clearly not centred around geography as the country is un-doubtly in Asia. Kemalism may have slightly Europeanised Turkey by introducing western traits into the nations character nevertheless when one thinks of Anatolia, they don't necessarily associate that image with Europe. The climate of Turkey is more akin to that of Southern European than that of its neighbours in the South. If you look at a map, Turkey is a mostly Green country with many forests whereas Iraq has almost no forests. For Simplicity purposes though I would say that Turkey is MENA because that is how its always been.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Occident

[Dacul]

Turkey is Asian genetically, geographically, religiously and historically, however the context of this thread is clearly not centred around geography as the country is un-doubtly in Asia. Kemalism may have slightly Europeanised Turkey by introducing western traits into the nations character nevertheless when one thinks of Anatolia, they don't necessarily associate that image with Europe. The climate of Turkey is more akin to that of Southern European than that of its neighbours in the South. If you look at a map, Turkey is a mostly Green country with many forests whereas Iraq has almost no forests. For Simplicity purposes though I would say that Turkey is MENA because that is how its always been.
Original Tukic people that came from Altai mountains were rather related to Fino-Ugric people,not to Asian people.
However, the Ottoman Turks came from Altai, South, through Persian Empire and after had contact with the Arabs.
From my knowledge Persian Empire was IndoEuropean as ethnicity and part European part West Asian as genetics.
Ottoman Turks got mixed , methinks mostly with Persian/Iranian people.
But they got most of their DNA from the conquered area of Byzantine Empire/Eastern Roman Empire.
The conquered people were from Eastern Roman Empire and were European people.
Turkey got lots of children from Romania and Balkans as tribute and I think at least 10% of current Turkey DNA comes from these children from Romania and Balkans if not almost 20%.

[rajputprincess]

Geographically middle East genetically mixed of middle East Europe and central asia culturally got influence from both but they have unique culture which is different from both middle eastern and European.

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

[Tigranes]

Middle-European

[itilvolga]

Neighter. Only our Thracian Region is European and Southeastern Region is Middle Eastern. Other parts are just Anatolian geographically.

[Tigranes]

https://countries.bridgat.com/images/Middle_East_Map.jpg
https://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/7/72/Map_of_Middle_East.png/600px-Map_of_Middle_East.png
https://www.worldatlas.com/img/areamap/continent/middle_east_map.gif

[Teutone]

People need to learn about Orient and occident.

[Oghuz]

Turkey has its own identity much like Arabs or Iran. No one in this region needs titles like European or anything.

[Tigranes]

Turkey much like Arabs.

https://d2nzqyyfd6k6c7.cloudfront.net/styles/nova_evo_landscape/s3/article/thumbnail/ned-stark-game-of-thrones.jpg?itok=4jemAU1u

[Veles]

Turkey is mainly Southern Europe

[Bakha]

Turkey has its own identity much like Arabs or Iran. No one in this region needs titles like European or anything.

Iran lost his own identity after converting to muslim (hostile arab religion) totalitarian state. You guys cant even call urself pure persians-iranians untill you freedom yourself from arabic religion invasion.

[Oghuz]

Iran lost his own identity after converting to muslim (hostile arab religion) totalitarian state. You guys cant even call urself pure persians-iranians untill you freedom yourself from arabic religion invasion.

Religion is a mental state not ethnic identity. If we go by your theory than whites all over the world are mental slaves of Arabs because Christianity came from guess where ? Jesus looked more like me than any of his current European followers.

Islam that Iranians follow today was given to us by (Azeri, Kurdish, Persian) Saffavid Empire.

Persians are like 50 % of Iran. No iranian can claim Iran as an ethnically pure persian state because it never was that. I am not persian myself.

We are inherently Muslims and no one can undo that.

[Oghuz]

del

double post

[Voskos]

West asian+european.

[sean]

The modern country of Turkey is sat upon Anatolia which was once Greek.

Turks are Asiatic, they are also Muslim. Thus Middle Eastern.

[Ayetooey]

Part of it is European (Thrace/Istanbul), part of it is middle eastern (southern Anatolia), part is Caucasus (North-East black sea); rest is just broadly west Asian.

[Vožd]

Geographicaly East Thrace is in Europe, other parts are conditionally MENA (sometimes Turkey is excluded from MENA, similar to Greece-Balkan question).
Maybe Near East is best to describe Turkey.

[Negah]

Turks are middle easterners

[Zroota]

Middle Eastern: 80%
European: 20%

And yet a few cute Turks here 'insult' Levantines as "butthurt brown MENAs", when the majority of Apricians don't see them any different from MENAs. Gotta love it... :cool:

https://media3.giphy.com/media/2bRl9YbY60FMs/giphy.gif

[Zroota]

Religion is a mental state not ethnic identity. If we go by your theory than whites all over the world are mental slaves of Arabs because Christianity came from guess where ? Jesus looked more like me than any of his current European followers.

Islam that Iranians follow today was given to us by (Azeri, Kurdish, Persian) Saffavid Empire.

Persians are like 50 % of Iran. No iranian can claim Iran as an ethnically pure persian state because it never was that. I am not persian myself.

We are inherently Muslims and no one can undo that.
Not true. Jesus was an ethnic Jew who spoke Galilean Aramaic. So you can say whites are 'slaves' of Jewish religions, since Christianity is a Jewish offshoot. At that time, Arabians were nonexistent in the Levant. Jesus was more akin to Druze, Maronites and Assyrians than to Gulf Arabs or pure Arabians.

Wait, I thought Iranians were inherently Zoroastrian?

[NiccMach]

Turkey has its own identity much like Arabs or Iran. No one in this region needs titles like European or anything.

True. If you read Arab travellers, they saw Turks/Turkics as semi-Muslims. Real Turkic traditions and culture were far from Arabic Middle Eastern culture. Both Turks and Iranics were converted to Islam by brutal masssacres, rapes and enslavement. This is why I see Iranics closer to us in Middle East instead of Arabics. Same murderer murdered both people.

[Babak]

True. If you read Arab travellers, they saw Turks/Turkics as semi-Muslims. Real Turkic traditions and culture were far from Arabic Middle Eastern culture. Both Turks and Iranics were converted to Islam by brutal masssacres, rapes and enslavement. This is why I see Iranics closer to us in Middle East instead of Arabics. Same murderer murdered both people.

Well Iranians and Turks had a lot of interactions with each other, which influenced each other through Islam.

[Adamm]

Part of Turkey is European and another part Middle Eastern.

[renaissance12]

Middle Eastern: 80%
European: 20%

And yet a few cute Turks here 'insult' Levantines as "butthurt brown MENAs", when the majority of Apricians don't see them any different from MENAs. Gotta love it... :cool:

https://media3.giphy.com/media/2bRl9YbY60FMs/giphy.gif

3O% of Turks could Fit in almost any place of Europe under 5O° of Latitude

[Laag]

Middle Eastern. They are closer to their Arab and Kurd relatives than to Europe.

[Laag]

3O% of Turks could Fit in almost any place of Europe under 5O° of Latitude

In some Southern European countries 70-80% according to some TA members.

[Babak]

Middle Eastern. They are closer to their Arab and Kurd relatives than to Europe.

They're Eurasians.

[renaissance12]

Not true. Jesus was an ethnic Jew who spoke Galilean Aramaic. So you can say whites are 'slaves' of Jewish religions, since Christianity is a Jewish offshoot. At that time, Arabians were nonexistent in the Levant. Jesus was more akin to Druze, Maronites and Assyrians than to Gulf Arabs or pure Arabians.

Wait, I thought Iranians were inherently Zoroastrian?

Jesus Was Not Arabic ...Jesus Could Look Like Steve Jobs

[renaissance12]

In some Southern European countries 70-80% according to some TA members.

In Extreme South Italy Maybe 50% Of Turks Could Fit...Egyptians Not More Than 10%

[Zroota]

Jesus Was Not Arabic ...Jesus Could Look Like Steve Jobs
I know. That's what I said.

Steve Jobs was half Swiss though. But to me he looked more Balkan than Middle Eastern (Syrian).

Jesus could have looked like Adam Sandler or Robert Downey Jnr (both Jews btw).

[Marmara]

We are African.

[renaissance12]

We are African.

And living being ( with or without culture )

[Kamal900]

Jesus Was Not Arabic ...Jesus Could Look Like Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs? Not really. He would have looked like Edward Said or any genetically isolated Levantine group like Samaritans, Druze, and Levantine Christians as a whole really.

[renaissance12]

Steve Jobs? Not really. He would have looked like Edward Said or any genetically isolated Levantine group like Samaritans, Druze, and Levantine Christians as a whole really.


Roman Polansky looks like Edward Said


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71efvF4HFeL.jpg

https://www.gelestatic.it/thimg/Vz0jKffuM4yXT5MgD5dUq3TRtDA=/fit-in/960x540/https%3A//www.lastampa.it/image/contentid/policy%3A1.37881499%3A1573321788/afp_xix_20191109_092416_002719.JPG%3Ff%3Ddetail_55 8%26h%3D720%26w%3D1280%26%24p%24f%24h%24w%3De69d3c c

[Kamal900]

True. If you read Arab travellers, they saw Turks/Turkics as semi-Muslims. Real Turkic traditions and culture were far from Arabic Middle Eastern culture. Both Turks and Iranics were converted to Islam by brutal masssacres, rapes and enslavement. This is why I see Iranics closer to us in Middle East instead of Arabics. Same murderer murdered both people.

No. Your Turkic Seljuk ancestors converted to Islam in the 10th century on their own accord when they first entered the middle east, and Iranians had mass converted to Islam during the Abbasid period, not the Ummuyad period where it lasted only less than 85 years of it's existence. Do your own research before spewing such nonsense.

[Kamal900]

Not true. Jesus was an ethnic Jew who spoke Galilean Aramaic. So you can say whites are 'slaves' of Jewish religions, since Christianity is a Jewish offshoot. At that time, Arabians were nonexistent in the Levant. Jesus was more akin to Druze, Maronites and Assyrians than to Gulf Arabs or pure Arabians.

Wait, I thought Iranians were inherently Zoroastrian?

Not exactly. There had been Arabs living in the Levant pure the rise of Islam in antiquity. Most of the Arabs lived in what is now Jordan, Southern Israel/Palestine, Southern and Eastern Syria, and there even had been Arabs living in Mesopotamia and Eastern Turkey as well. The Semitic peoples that lived in Jordan were mostly Arabs back in ancient times, and there is no evidence that points out that Aramaic was ever a vernacular language in Jordan and Arabia either. The Nabateans, who were an ancient Arab nomads of modern day Jordan and Southern Israel/Palestine, used Aramaic, which is descendant from imperial Aramaic brought by the Babylonians, for their administration and commercial usage which has a heavy Arabic substrate.
https://www.academia.edu/40235915/Al-Jallad_draft_The_month_ʾdr_in_Safaitic_and_the_sta tus_of_spirantization_in_Arabian_Aramaic

Also, Arabs originated in the north, not the south:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?306265-Ethnogenesis-of-the-Arabs