Is Oppenheimer's theory that the Welsh and the Irish are distant relatives of the Basques false?

[Ruggery]

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/origins_of_the_british.php
Oppenheimer believed that the ancestors of the Celts in most of the British islands had their origin in the Spanish Basque country and in the French. Is it true that both populations are mostly Rb1, but if the theory were true because the Irish and the Welsh are not genetically similar to the current Basque? In addition to that phenotypically the Basques rarely resemble the British islanders.

[JQP4545]

The Middle Eastern farmers who moved into Europe during the neolithic took two routes, one going from Asia Minor, through the Balkans and into Central Europe and the other from the Aegean, across the northern Mediterranean to Spain and up through the British Isles. My opinion is the that the similar phenotypes that you can find in Basques and people from the British Isles derives from these neolithic farmers. If you look at the GEDMatch results for neolithic farmers from Spain and Ireland/Scotland they are very similar to each other whereas the LBK farmers from Germany are similar to Greeks and Albanians.

[Grace O'Malley]

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/origins_of_the_british.php
Oppenheimer believed that the ancestors of the Celts in most of the British islands had their origin in the Spanish Basque country and in the French. Is it true that both populations are mostly Rb1, but if the theory were true because the Irish and the Welsh are not genetically similar to the current Basque? In addition to that phenotypically the Basques rarely resemble the British islanders.

His theory was debunked. It really is simple when you understand that R1b came from the Steppes during the Bronze Age so no specific link with the Basques.

[Peterski]

His theory was debunked. It really is simple when you understand that R1b came from the Steppes during the Bronze Age so no specific link with the Basques.

Isn't it possible that speakers of the Proto-Basque language had actually lived on the Steppe (as neighbours of Proto-Indo-Europeans)?

[Grace O'Malley]

The Middle Eastern farmers who moved into Europe during the neolithic took two routes, one going from Asia Minor, through the Balkans and into Central Europe and the other from the Aegean, across the northern Mediterranean to Spain and up through the British Isles. My opinion is the that the similar phenotypes that you can find in Basques and people from the British Isles derives from these neolithic farmers. If you look at the GEDMatch results for neolithic farmers from Spain and Ireland/Scotland they are very similar to each other whereas the LBK farmers from Germany are similar to Greeks and Albanians.

The problem with that though is that the Farmer population in Ireland contributed very little to the present day Irish. The Bronze Age Bell Beakers are the people that contributed the most to the present day Irish. Remember that in Ireland there was a near total population replacement and the farmer population had likely already dwindled significantly by this time possibly due to climate change. The Beakers were by far the most successful.

[Ruggery]

The problem with that though is that the Farmer population in Ireland contributed very little to the present day Irish. The Bronze Age Bell Beakers are the people that contributed the most to the present day Irish. Remember that in Ireland there was a near total population replacement and the farmer population had likely already dwindled significantly by this time possibly due to climate change. The Beakers were by far the most successful.

What was the replacement of the population of the had ireland?

[Bobby Martnen]

They're related since they are both Europeans, but they're not especially close or anything like that.

[Imperator Biff]

It’s crazy to think that not too long ago respected mainstream geneticists believed things like haplogroup R1b originated from basques. Of course even as a kid I always knew it was bull that Irish and Brits “came from basques”.

Population genetics has come a long way since the 00s.

[Imperator Biff]

What was the replacement of the population of the had ireland?

Read the recent Olalde et al study.
Basically R1b-L21 rich steppe halflings replaced 90% of the dna of the EEF megalithic building populations that lived in neolithic Ireland and Britain and subsequently established the core genomes of both islands to this very day.

[Bellbeaking]

Oppenheimer was wrong and should remove his books from sales.

[Bellbeaking]

Also the neolithic ancestry in the UK is mostly continental neolithic ancestry that the bell beaker brought by mixing with central european neolithics

[Bellbeaking]

It’s crazy to think that not too long ago respected mainstream geneticists believed things like haplogroup R1b originated from basques. Of course even as a kid I always knew it was bull that Irish and Brits “came from basques”.

Population genetics has come a long way since the 00s.

many Britain haters on these forums absolutely frothed at the mouth with glee, that they found a reason to separate us from their beloved 'Nordics'.

Even after genetic PCA clustering came about in 2013 or so and the British/Irish clustered with other NW European populations people still would cling on to the Out of Iberia theory somehow.

[Cristiano viejo]

Yes, he was right, Welsh and Irish are descendants of Spanish, that is why many British share features with Iberians. The rest come from their North European ancestors.

[J. Ketch]

many Britain haters on these forums absolutely frothed at the mouth with glee, that they found a reason to separate us from their beloved 'Nordics'.

Even after genetic PCA clustering came about in 2013 or so and the British/Irish clustered with other NW European populations people still would cling on to the Out of Iberia theory somehow.
It irritated me how gullible and impressionable so many ostensibly smart and academic people could be. All you need is one eye and two brain cells to rub together to know Brits and Irish were related to other NW Europeans, but apparently those things aren't compulsory for the intelligentsia. Mirrors their race and sex denialism.

[Morena]

Yes.

[Bellbeaking]

Yes, he was right, Welsh and Irish are descendants of Spanish, that is why many British share features with Iberians. The rest come from their North European ancestors.

why does one feel the need to troll?

[Imperator Biff]

Yes, he was right, Welsh and Irish are descendants of Spanish, that is why many British share features with Iberians. The rest come from their North European ancestors.

As it turns out it was actually the other way around lol.
Spanish are rapebabies of proto celtic bell beakers. R1b isn’t from Spain. Sorry amigo.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/10/01/ciencia/1538416630_736638.html

[Imperator Biff]

many Britain haters on these forums absolutely frothed at the mouth with glee, that they found a reason to separate us from their beloved 'Nordics'.

Even after genetic PCA clustering came about in 2013 or so and the British/Irish clustered with other NW European populations people still would cling on to the Out of Iberia theory somehow.
Ironically it was Brit geneticists like Brian Sykes that propped up this theory for so long. Old habits die hard and some people still do desperately advocate for a western origin of R1b even though it’s pretty obvious where it originated from at this stage. People, especially archaeologists liked the idea of NW Europeans remaining unchanged since the LGM and various cultural changes like agriculture and IE languages magically spread themselves with no gene flow.

[Bellbeaking]

Ironically it was Brit geneticists like Brian Sykes that propped up this theory for so long. Old habits die hard and some people still do desperately advocate for a western origin of R1b even though it’s pretty obvious where it originated from at this stage. People, especially archaeologists liked the idea of NW Europeans remaining unchanged since the LGM and various cultural changes like agriculture and IE languages magically spread themselves with no gene flow.

I have been having a wikipedia war over Reichs stuff regarding the British for a while, many editors still prefer Oppenheimers theory

[Imperator Biff]

I have been having a wikipedia war over Reichs stuff regarding the British for a while, many editors still prefer Oppenheimers theory

Wikipedia is filled with outdated crap, terrible resource.

[Bellbeaking]

Wikipedia is filled with outdated crap, terrible resource.

odd that one would defend it. R1b came to spain after britain by hundreds of years

https://i.imgur.com/IiWNBkH.png

[Joso]

it is true

[Bellbeaking]

it is true

hilarious