Roma Gypsies have ties/link to Northwest India as well as parts of Pakistan new study says

[Mortimer]

This is one of the more recent studies, thats why I post it. I think I did before a year ago when it came out but it cant hurt to repost it. I dont think many saw it last time.

Received: 21 September 2016Accepted: 21 August 2017Published: 31 August 2017

https://bmcgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12863-017-0547-x

Results
According to our analyses, Roma showed significant IBD sharing of 0.132 Mb with Northwest Indian ethnic groups. The most significant IBD sharings included ethnic groups of Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat states. However, we found also significant IBD sharing of 0.087 Mb with ethnic groups living in Pakistan, such as Balochi, Brahui, Burusho, Kalash, Makrani, Pashtun and Sindhi.

[tipirneni]

They dont have enough populations/castes in the study.

[lameduck]

cool

[oszkar07]

Interesting results , but not really suprising.

But is there any cultural continuation or links between Roma culture/language/customs and those people of India ?

Where has Roma/Gypsy culture evolved from , what has influenced it ?

[Mortimer]

Interesting results , but not really suprising.

But is there any cultural continuation or links between Roma culture/language/customs and those people of India ?

There language is a creole language that means mixed language like english is mixed of germanic and latin etc. There culture is heavily influenced by european culture. For example there food eating has nothing indian in it.

Romani cuisine, Romani food, Gypsy cuisine or Gypsy food is the cuisine of the ethnic Romani/Romany people. It is influenced by European cuisine. Although, Romani people are believed to originate from India, their cookery does not incorporate any Indian or South Asian influence. It is similar to Hungarian, Albanian cuisine, Balkan cuisine and Romanian cuisine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_cuisine

[Mortimer]

Where has Roma/Gypsy culture evolved from , what has influenced it ?

I didnt studied the roma culture. Im not romanalogist. But guess they have some remnants of indian culture and are heavily european influenced probably creole like many other cultures, like mexican has indigennous elements and spanish elements. Thats my best guess. I would rather say they are more influenced by european culture too. Well there are tribes in india who practice begging or stealing etc. but you can actually find such tribes around the world and in medieval times in europe there were lots of "fahrende" that means travellers who performed music or lived from begging and were europeans, gypsies might have assimilated a little bit with some of them.

[oszkar07]

I didnt studied the roma culture. Im not romanalogist. But guess they have some remnants of indian culture and are heavily european influenced probably creole like many other cultures, like mexican has indigennous elements and spanish elements. Thats my best guess. I would rather say they are more influenced by european culture too. Well there are tribes in india who practice begging or stealing etc. but you can actually find such tribes around the world and in medieval times in europe there were lots of "fahrende" that means travellers who performed music or lived from begging and were europeans, gypsies might have assimilated a little bit with some of them.

Interesting, how did Roma travel to Europe from India.
I recall there was some theory about Egypt ? and this was supposedly related to them being called Gypsies ?

[Mortimer]

Interesting, how did Roma travel to Europe from India.
I recall there was some theory about Egypt ? and this was supposedly related to them being called Gypsies ?

I think that no one really knows 100% for sure why roma left india and how they travelled to europe, there are some theories or hypothesis. But I think no one knows that really. The roma history is only "reconstructed" that means reconstructed through linguists, anthropologists and dna studies. They dont have a written history or were always in one place to be sure of it. First time someone discovered roma are from india was a hungarian linguist 300 years ago or like that. Before they thought gypsies are "hamites" some thought they are "cursed jews" "tatars" or something like that. That they are from egypt is one of the myths, the name gypsies indeed derrives from the term egyptian.

[Nurzat]

Where has Roma/Gypsy culture evolved from , what has influenced it ?

Roma culture was very much influenced by Wallachians (southern Romanians) I think, they got from the Romanians the sorcery thing they are known for. Romas were workers/slaves in every Wallachian village on the property of the local boyars (landowners) and also on every monastery. and average Romanians are influenced by Roma in their appetite for kitsch. this is an observation only, but I think that in Europe Romania had the most impact on Romas, it impacted their lifestyle (Romanians were nomads themselves until recently, going with the sheep from one place to another.)

[Leto]

Roma culture was very much influenced by Wallachians (southern Romanians) I think, they got from the Romanians the sorcery thing they are known for. Romas were workers/slaves in every Wallachian village on the property of the local boyars (landowners) and also on every monastery. and average Romanians are influenced by Roma in their appetite for kitsch. this is an observation only, but I think that in Europe Romania had the most impact on Romas, it impacted their lifestyle (Romanians were nomads themselves until recently, going with the sheep from one place to another.)
Is that true that there has been a large outflow of Gypsies from Romania to Spain, Italy, Germany and the UK after Romania joined the EU in 2007?

[Tauromachos]

Interesting that there is even a genetic link to the Kalash

The relation to Punjab actualy concurs with what has been most commonly believed about the origins of Roma

As far as i know the most common belief is that Roma tribes came from the Punjab region.

[lameduck]

Interesting that there is even a genetic link to the Kalash

The relation to Punjab actualy concurs with what has been most commonly believed about the origins of Roma

As far as i know the most common belief is that Roma tribes came from the Punjab region.

there is a low cast gypsy type population in Pakistan punjab, they tend to be darker and different looking from average upper cast Pakistani Punjabi.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1173232

[lameduck]

repeat

[Tauromachos]

there is a low cast gypsy type population in Pakistan punjab, they tend to be darker and different looking from average upper cast Pakistani Punjabi.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1173232

LOL

[lameduck]

LOL

whats there to lol, they look different from say jatts

[Nurzat]

Is that true that there has been a large outflow of Gypsies from Romania to Spain, Italy, Germany and the UK after Romania joined the EU in 2007?

true, indeed a huge exodus happened. but they have 5 kids on woman on average (official average a few years ago when we were shown a clip by an NGO was 5.2 babies born/Roma woman) so they grow rapidly and they will outnumber Romanians in the next decades. not only this but they gradually mix with Romanians and eventually will have Romanian genes absorbed into their Indian+Persian+Ottoman gene pool. it's a matter of time only that in Romania Roma become the majority, which is ok since the name of the country and of the people will stay relevant (Romania).

I want to add that the Roma will go on to become the majority genetically, not ethnically, there will be no Roma ethnicity left in the end, since they all gradually assimilate into Romanian language and culture, so they will be Romanian and no language or cultural shift will happen.

[Leto]

true, indeed a huge exodus happened. but they have 5 kids on woman on average (official average a few years ago when we were shown a clip by an NGO was 5.2 babies born/Roma woman) so they grow rapidly and they will outnumber Romanians in the next decades. not only this but they gradually mix with Romanians and eventually will have Romanian genes absorbed into their Indian+Persian+Ottoman gene pool. it's a matter of time only that in Romania Roma become the majority, which is ok since the name of the country and of the people will stay relevant (Romania).

I want to add that the Roma will go on to become the majority genetically, not ethnically, there will be no Roma ethnicity left in the end, since they all gradually assimilate into Romanian language and culture, so they will be Romanian and no language or cultural shift will happen.
Lol, I wouldn't say it's okay, because the country will be even worse economically if that happens. However, by that time much of Western and Northern Europe will be no better to say the least...

[Nurzat]

Lol, I wouldn't say it's okay, because the country will be even worse economically if that happens. However, by that time much of Western and Northern Europe will be no better to say the least...

in the exact same situation with Roma community are Slovakia and Bulgaria, while Hungary is close enough too. I don't know the situation in Serbia, it depends on who you ask, but it seems to be similar.

we know what will happen to northwestern Europe (Indian, Pakistani, Maghrebi, Afghan, Kurdish, Iraqi and Somali, i.e. Muslim immigrants will become majority).

we know what will happen to the Balkans and Eastcentral Europe (Roma and Roma-mixed people will become majority).

what are the prospects for Portugal-Spain-Italy-Greece on the one hand and ex-Soviet Union on the other? how rapidly are the Chechen/north Caucasian Muslims growing in Russia outside their territory?

[Leto]

@Eskimo, I'll send you a PM on this.

[Mortimer]

there is a low cast gypsy type population in Pakistan punjab, they tend to be darker and different looking from average upper cast Pakistani Punjabi.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1173232

they can pass as roma, a little different but no surprise roma have some european admix too and some westasian. but basically similar. this villagers seem to be quiete dark too. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?266084-Roma-woman-in-Punjab-village-searching-for-her-roots

[RenaRyuguu]

No they were kicked out of India

[Mehmet Udegey]

No they were kicked out of India

nope

[RenaRyuguu]

nope

idk they are just Siddi to me

[RenaRyuguu]

Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFO1lnahusQ

I'm scared

[Mehmet Udegey]

Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFO1lnahusQ

I'm scared

Sexy ladies, except the one.

[Roy]

Sexy ladies, except the one.

In Poland people believe that Gypsy women are only attractive when very young like 14-30. Then, they age in the worst ways.

[RenaRyuguu]

In Poland people believe that Gypsy women are only attractive when very young like 14-30. Then, they age in the worst ways.

lmao

[Lucas]

In Poland people believe that Gypsy women are only attractive when very young like 14-30. Then, they age in the worst ways.

True but I would lower upper limit to 25:)

[Leto]

Are Polish Gypsies less Indian than, say, Bulgarian or Romanian ones?

[Lucas]

Are Polish Gypsies less Indian than, say, Bulgarian or Romanian ones?

I think they are whiter a bit.

They made this video in club which is just a few streets from me, in Torun:)

But I need Mortimer to judge if they look whiter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKcLxbnmBCo

[Leto]

I think they are whiter a bit.

They made this video in club which is just a few streets from me, in Torun:)

But I need Mortimer to judge if they look whiter.

They look undoubtedly Gypsy.