K47 PCA -- look at how Southern Europeans plot here!

[Sikeliot]

These are with academic Sicily and Greek samples.

Syracusans are halfway between Greeks and Trapani/Malta, showing they clearly have higher NE European input. Thessaloniki Greeks are clearly Balkanic. Here, Trapani is clearly much less of an outlier, squarely placed between Anthrogenica user Dewsloth's Lebanese mother, and the Iberians.


https://i.imgur.com/177lnqE.png

[Sikeliot]

This must mean there is much more mainland Greek input in Syracuse than there is Norman in Trapani.

[Vasconcelos]

K47 isn't great though, Lukasz himself admited that the calculator overestimates certain components, such as Germanic-related ones. I (Ruderico) have a gargantuan amount of North Sea Germanic in K47 (14%, my gf has half) for an Iberian, eventhough all other calculators and analysis consistently show I have actually really low germanic ancestry.

So I wouldn't put too much relevance in this particular plot

[Sikeliot]

K47 isn't great though, Lukasz himself admited that the calculator overestimates certain components, such as Germanic-related ones. I (Ruderico) have a gargantuan amount of North Sea Germanic in K47 (14%, my gf has half) for an Iberian, eventhough all other calculators and analysis consistently show I have actually really low germanic ancestry.

So I wouldn't put too much relevance in this particular plot


You actually help my argument! If Germanic input is accentuated, then the Norman input in Trapani should be... but it's not. Syracuse on the other hand, which is shifted north by a Slavic component, is being pulled toward Greece while Trapani remains next to Malta and Calabria.

This means Syracusans are more admixed with Greeks than are Trapanese with Normans, Italics, etc.

[Vasconcelos]

You actually help my argument! If Germanic input is accentuated, then the Norman input in Trapani should be... but it's not. Syracuse on the other hand, which is shifted north by a Slavic component, is being pulled toward Greece while Trapani remains next to Malta and Calabria.

This means Syracusans are more admixed with Greeks than are Trapanese with Normans, Italics, etc.

The excess germanic output can be completely bogus, as is in my case. It might not even be the only one

Edit: My point is that the output isn't very consistent, so it cannot be relied upon. I'd stick with K13, K15, K36 and G25, if a certain trend is present on all of these, then it's likely real

[nightrider+]

Thessaloniki Greeks are clearly Balkanic.

Going by your agenda certainly. Otherwise they are as close to some Italians as to *****. Sorcelow, who iirc is Peloponnesian, plots closer to South Slavs.

[Hadouken]

"South Med" should be East Med

"Lupus82" is a kurdish guy from my homeprovince btw

[MercifulServant]

These are with academic Sicily and Greek samples.

Syracusans are halfway between Greeks and Trapani/Malta, showing they clearly have higher NE European input. Thessaloniki Greeks are clearly Balkanic. Here, Trapani is clearly much less of an outlier, squarely placed between Anthrogenica user Dewsloth's Lebanese mother, and the Iberians.


https://i.imgur.com/177lnqE.png


We’re is Eastern Europe in this PCA

[Sikeliot]

Going by your agenda certainly. Otherwise they are as close to some Italians as to *****. Sorcelow, who iirc is Peloponnesian, plots closer to South Slavs.

The question is why Syracuse is shifting toward balkans .

[MercifulServant]

The excess germanic output can be completely bogus, as is in my case. It might not even be the only one

Edit: My point is that the output isn't very consistent, so it cannot be relied upon. I'd stick with K13, K15, K36 and G25, if a certain trend is present on all of these, then it's likely real

K36 is shit.

[nightrider+]

The question is why Syracuse is shifting toward balkans .

It's Slavicized.

[Pubiczar]

Going by your agenda certainly. Otherwise they are as close to some Italians as to *****. Sorcelow, who iirc is Peloponnesian, plots closer to South Slavs.

That's only one sample bro...
I can tell you I've seen other samples who plot not that different than me.
This one might be mixed since he plots with Sorcelow who is Peloponnesian.
This PCA clearly is not good enough as you can see that the Western Europeans come very close to the South East Europeans which is bollocks!

[Vasconcelos]

K36 is shit.

Why?
I find the small %s of "clutter" (such as Omotic, etc) on high Ks a bit annoying which is why I prefer it the least, but K36 still produces PCAs that are very similar to K15, G25 and so on.
On this one I'm too much shifted north, I almost seem like a southern French - partially due to my high scores of North Sea and relatively low North Iberian+East Iberian which are very odd and the opposite of what other calculators and PCAs show. K36 seemed fine on that regard, certainly better than K47

[MercifulServant]

Why?
I find the small %s of "clutter" (such as Omotic, etc) on high Ks a bit annoying which is why I prefer it the least, but K36 still produces PCAs that are very similar to K15, G25 and so on.
On this one I'm too much shifted north, I almost seem like a southern French - partially due to my high scores of North Sea and relatively low North Iberian+East Iberian which are very odd and the opposite of what other calculators and PCAs show. K36 seemed fine on that regard, certainly better than K47

I prefer K15 and K13 more. K36 has many useless components that make results messy and confusing. I’m definitely not a fan of K36.

[nightrider+]

That's only one sample bro...
I can tell you I've seen other samples who plot not that different than me.
This one might be mixed since he plots with Sorcelow who is Peloponnesian.
This PCA clearly is not good enough as you can see that the Western Europeans come very close to the South East Europeans which is bollocks!

And I've seen Florina people who plot even more west than this. Most mainland Greeks are quite close, Sorcelow being Peloponnesian doesn't mean much. There's clearly a big difference between neighboring populations here and that's a fact.

[Pubiczar]

And I've seen Florina people who plot even more west than this. Most mainland Greeks are quite close, Sorcelow being Peloponnesian doesn't mean much. There's clearly a big difference between neighboring populations here and that's a fact.

Most mainland Greeks been very close is not true!
There are big variations from region to region.
Please check those Eurogenes K13 and K15 PCA's and you will know what I am talking about!

[MercifulServant]

Most mainland Greeks been very close is not true!
There are big variations from region to region.
Please check those Eurogenes K13 and K15 PCA's and you will know what I am talking about!

There is a K13 PCA? please link it.

[Vasconcelos]

There is a K13 PCA? please link it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1g5rw44q062dv8q/K13ByCountries.png?dl=0


I still prefer the K15 above the K13 though, it seems better at distinguishing different certain elements such as Atlantic VS North Sea, etc

[MINARDOWICZ]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1g5rw44q062dv8q/K13ByCountries.png?dl=0


I still prefer the K15 above the K13 though, it seems better at distinguishing different certain elements such as Atlantic VS North Sea, etc

K15 is king! It does better with E European/Baltic ancestry and Med ancestry both. K13 is my second favorite.

[nightrider+]

Most mainland Greeks been very close is not true!
There are big variations from region to region.
Please check those Eurogenes K13 and K15 PCA's and you will know what I am talking about!

There is no standard North-South cline if you exclude some extreme outliers. A Laconian can plot north of a Thessalian for example. If you get many samples and exclude outliers (as professional studies do) you'll see that mainland Greece ranges from Albanian-like to North Aegean-like.

[Sikeliot]

It's Slavicized.

Honestly yes, it is. More than Trapani is Norman shifted. Trapani also has more MENA than Syracuse.

[Chaos One]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1g5rw44q062dv8q/K13ByCountries.png?dl=0


I still prefer the K15 above the K13 though, it seems better at distinguishing different certain elements such as Atlantic VS North Sea, etc

Well, at this Northern Berbers are closer to Europeans (albeit South Italians/Maltese) than West Asians. That's some interesting info, since there's always a "who's closer".

[Pubiczar]

There is no standard North-South cline if you exclude some extreme outliers. A Laconian can plot north of a Thessalian for example. If you get many samples and exclude outliers (as professional studies do) you'll see that mainland Greece ranges from Albanian-like to North Aegean-like.

Here you go mate, a better PCA, based on Eurogenes K15.
There are two Thessaloniki samples, one is close to Albanians and other to Slavic Macedonians:

https://i.postimg.cc/vmPNJfxc/K15ver3x.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Z9dH39cS)

[Vasconcelos]

Well, at this Northern Berbers are closer to Europeans (albeit South Italians/Maltese) than West Asians. That's some interesting info, since there's always a "who's closer".

Sometimes the closest samples on the plot are not the ones who are actually closest to you (euclidian distance) though. I admit I know next to nothing on where north Africans plot on different PCAs

[Chaos One]

Sometimes the closest samples on the plot are not the ones who are actually closest to you (euclidian distance) though. I admit I know next to nothing on where north Africans plot on different PCAs

If we use that K3 old one, the gap between North Africa and South Europe is far more larger.

[Ibericus]

Well, at this Northern Berbers are closer to Europeans (albeit South Italians/Maltese) than West Asians. That's some interesting info, since there's always a "who's closer".
When you include North-Africans in a West-Eurasian PCA plot the Sub-Saharan element in them is not taken in account, only the west-eurasian, that's why the plot between Levant and Sardinia. In a global PCA, they are much further away than west-asians are to europeans, because there the SSA pulls them very far away.

[Chaos One]

When you include North-Africans in a West-Eurasian PCA plot the Sub-Saharan element in them is not taken in account, only the west-eurasian, that's why the plot between Levant and Sardinia. In a global PCA, they are much further away than west-asians are to europeans, because there the SSA pulls them very far away.

Makes sense, although if you gather Riffians/Kabylies at 1-5% SSA, they wouldn't be that far from that position. Dunno which samples they used.