Secular Muslim-majority nations

[Ryujin]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Islam_and_State_of_Religion_by_Constitution.png

[Teutone]

Looks like Turk people manage to establish secularism but its mostly due to the fact that they were communist.

Turkeys reason for secularism is well known.

I would add Syria as secular in my opinion.

[Ayetooey]

Turkey won't be blue if Erdogan stays in power and keeps on importing Syrians and other more extreme Muslims. Bosnia should be up there it's technically Muslim majority, and Sweden in a few decades.

[Ryujin]

Looks like Turk people manage to establish secularism but its mostly due to the fact that they were communist.

Turkeys reason for secularism is well known.

I would add Syria as secular in my opinion.

Technically the Syrian constitution states that the President has to be a Muslim. But the current leadership is secular, I agree.

[Teutone]

Turkey won't be blue if Erdogan stays in power and keeps on importing Syrians and other more extreme Muslims. Bosnia should be up there it's technically Muslim majority, and Sweden in a few decades.

What would Sandzak be if it was independent? They have the image to be European arabs.

[Joso]

so is Egypt a Islamic state? Interesting. Do the Christian Copts suffer opression there?

[Ayetooey]

What would Sandzak be if it was independent? They have the image to be European arabs.

LOL, they are probably the most Islamic native European group and are very very religious, different to Bosnia itself, I could imagine them having Islam at the state religion were it to be independent. Watch this without laughing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzVY1bhEk44&list=PL5XKAnaYm44A4nyaQQBn5F3QyNs3tjc3X

[Ryujin]

LOL, they are probably the most Islamic native European group and are very very religious, different to Bosnia itself, I could imagine them having Islam at the state religion were it to be independent. Watch this without laughing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzVY1bhEk44&list=PL5XKAnaYm44A4nyaQQBn5F3QyNs3tjc3X

Pretty much like Kosovans, I think.

[Incal]

That's just on the paper. IRL the most secular country is Tunisia and is not on the blue list.

[Ryujin]

That's just on the paper. IRL the most secular country is Tunisia and is not on the blue list.

I agree that Tunisia is quite secular but how come it is the most secular?

[Teutone]

LOL, they are probably the most Islamic native European group and are very very religious, different to Bosnia itself, I could imagine them having Islam at the state religion were it to be independent. Watch this without laughing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzVY1bhEk44&list=PL5XKAnaYm44A4nyaQQBn5F3QyNs3tjc3X

DISGUSTING, denial of europeanism and full arabization.

Very shameful, triggers me alot somehow

[Ayetooey]

DISGUSTING, denial of europeanism and full arabization.

Very shameful, triggers me alot somehow

When Erdogan visited.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NHFVbCOObYQ/hqdefault.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL4dva-WAAA94V5.jpg

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/03aa29/645/344/0/67/539/354?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/08/08/1470605858946.jpg

[Teutone]

When Erdogan visited.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NHFVbCOObYQ/hqdefault.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL4dva-WAAA94V5.jpg

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/03aa29/645/344/0/67/539/354?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/08/08/1470605858946.jpg

What do you think of them as a Serb?

[Incal]

I agree that Tunisia is quite secular but how come it is the most secular?

Because its inhabitants are the less religious and fanatic. Also, the most pro-democracy. Guess where the Arab Spring started?

[Teutone]

Because its inhabitants are the less religious and fanatic. Also, the most pro-democracy. Guess where the Arab Spring started?

arab spring was in all cases except Tunisia a islamist revolution.

And even Tunisians are hardcore anis amri was tunesian.

[Ayetooey]

What do you think of them as a Serb?

They're weird people, they're paternally over 70 percent Gheg Albanian by dna, they were imported into Sandzak by Ottomans, then mixed with other imports including MENA people and caucasians, and then slavified. Now they identify as Bosnian, when they have nothing to do with Bosnia or Bosniaks at all. I feel sorry for them tbh. Visiting Novi Pazar is on my bucket list but there's 0 percent chance my dad would go with me, so I will likely visit at some point myself, it's a very historic city.

[Ryujin]

Because its inhabitants are the less religious and fanatic. Also, the most pro-democracy. Guess where the Arab Spring started?

Lol if you think that Arab Spring was a good thing. :lol:

This is what happens when you are brainwashed by the media.

[Teutone]

They're weird people, they're paternally over 70 percent Gheg Albanian by dna, they were imported into Sandzak by Ottomans, then mixed with other imports including MENA people and caucasians, and then slavified. Now they identify as Bosnian, when they have nothing to do with Bosnia or Bosniaks at all. I feel sorry for them tbh. Visiting Novi Pazar is on my bucket list but there's 0 percent chance my dad would go with me, so I will likely visit at some point myself, it's a very historic city.

Imagine German regions to look like that in 50years awakes my german genocide tendecies

[Ayetooey]

Imagine German regions to look like that in 50years awakes my german genocide tendecies

It'll take a while for the whole nation to turn, but I can see pockets of radicalism appearing more and more so. I feel more sorry for Sweden, I believe by 2050 they may have an Islamic majority.

Some people suggest same will happen to Britain, but Britains population is pretty large and we have a lot of non Muslim immigrants that balances it out, it'll just be America v2 over here.

[Root]

how`s that possible that Malaysia is less secular than all the selected blue countries on the map? It's more secular than anything


the source

The constitution grants freedom of religion and makes Malaysia an officially secular state, while establishing Islam as the "religion of the Federation". According to the Population and Housing Census 2010 figures, ethnicity and religious beliefs correlate highly. Approximately 61.3% of the population practice Islam, 19.8% practice Buddhism, 9.2% Christianity, 6.3% Hinduism and 1.3% practice Confucianism, Taoism and other traditional Chinese religions. 0.7% declared no religion and the remaining 1.4% practised other religions or did not provide any information. Sunni Islam of Shafi'i school of jurisprudence is the dominant branch of Islam in Malaysia, while 18% are nondenominational Muslims.

[Ryujin]

Izmir is probably the most secular place with a nominally Muslim-majority population. Most girls, yea most of them, wear miniskirts, Hijab is quite rare and there are bars and pubs all around. Premarital sex is common as well.

[Chaos One]

so is Egypt a Islamic state? Interesting. Do the Christian Copts suffer opression there?

They're in fact one of the most oppressed ethnic groups in all world.

[Ayetooey]

Izmir is probably the most secular place with a nominally Muslim-majority population. Most girls, yea most of them, wear miniskirts, Hijab is quite rare and there are bars and pubs all around. Premarital sex is common as well.

Do you think it'll be the same in say 20 years from now?

[Ryujin]

Do you think it'll be the same in say 20 years from now?

I do not think that religion is going to be as influential in the future. This even applies to countries like Saudi Arabia.

[Incal]

Lol if you think that Arab Spring was a good thing. :lol:

Elaborate.

[Teutone]

Elaborate.

Name me any nation besides Tunisia where the Arab Spring had a good outcome?

[Ayetooey]

Name me any nation besides Tunisia where the Arab Spring had a good outcome?

Israel.

[Ryujin]

Also, this democracy thing argument is quite irrelevant. It is true that Tunisia has multi-party elections; but I'd prefer to live in a single-party state such as Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan rather than Tunisia, because the society is more secular and Islam is less practiced.

Tunisia is probably the most secular nation amongst Arab countries, tho. They score the lowest when it comes to demand for Sharia law, and more women are uncovered there. But still, let's not forget that it was one of the largest ISIS militant-exporting countries. I support the secular people out there and their struggle for progress. It is a country with a great potential. So, if I had to choose out of an Arab country, it would be Tunisia.

[Ryujin]

Name me any nation besides Tunisia where the Arab Spring had a good outcome?

The Arab Spring was a CIA-designed project seeking to bring a politically Islamist group called Muslim Brotherhood to power in Middle Eastern countries. It backfired in Syria and then it started reciding from that point.

[Incal]

Name me any nation besides Tunisia where the Arab Spring had a good outcome?

The fact Tunisia was the only one that succeeded proves my point.

[Teutone]

The fact Tunisia was the only one that succeeded proves my point.

Well no since you implied starting the arab spring was positive, ben ali was quite secular.

[Ryujin]

Well no since you implied starting the arab spring was positive, ben ali was quite secular.

The Arab Spring initially brought Muslim Brotherhood to power in Tunisia, they attempted to establish Sharia law and restrict women's rights but as the Arab Spring started losing ground after things did not go as planned in Syria and they got defeated.

[Teutone]

The Arab Spring initially brought Muslim Brotherhood to power in Tunisia, they attempted to establish Sharia law and restrict women's rights but as the Arab Spring started losing ground after things did not go as planned in Syria and they got defeated.

what is your take on king mohammed of morroco

[Ryujin]

what is your take on king mohammed of morroco

I don't know much about him.

[StonyArabia]

Tunisians are far more secular than Turks.

[Ryujin]

Tunisians are far more secular than Turks.

I doubt so. And that is not an objective assesment anyway.

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-3.png

Tunisians = most secular Arabs.

[StonyArabia]

I doubt so. And that is not an objective assesment anyway.

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-3.png

Most Turks support Erdogan who is Muslim brotherhood ally and has similar ideology. TA Turks are not really representative of the average Turk. Tunisians are very secular and would reject the Muslim brotherhood. Tunisians also have adopted a lot of French and Italian influence. The militant Tunisians often had mental problems or came from very poor backgrounds, they were rare.

[Ryujin]

I don't think there are places where public drinking is normal in Tunisia. Like this:

http://i.milliyet.com.tr/GazeteHaberIciResim/2018/04/22/fft16_mf11302230.Jpeg

Or this:

http://i.hurimg.com/i/hurriyet/75/590x332/55eb3fe5f018fbb8f8b4f88b.jpg

[rein]

When Erdogan visited.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NHFVbCOObYQ/hqdefault.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL4dva-WAAA94V5.jpg

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/03aa29/645/344/0/67/539/354?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/08/08/1470605858946.jpg

Must be a nuisance to keep those white robes clean.

[Ayetooey]

I don't think there are places where public drinking is normal in Tunisia. Like this:

http://i.milliyet.com.tr/GazeteHaberIciResim/2018/04/22/fft16_mf11302230.Jpeg

Or this:

http://i.hurimg.com/i/hurriyet/75/590x332/55eb3fe5f018fbb8f8b4f88b.jpg

Will these places exist in a few election cycles tho? I doubt it, Turkey is becoming more and more Islamic. I feel sorry for sensible people like yourself. I think Tunisia's islamicness is being overrated slightly.

[Ryujin]

Most Turks support Erdogan who is Muslim brotherhood ally and has similar ideology. TA Turks are not really representative of the average Turk. Tunisians are very secular and would reject the Muslim brotherhood. Tunisians also have adopted a lot of French and Italian influence. The militant Tunisians often had mental problems or came from very poor backgrounds, they were rare.

Not all Erdogan supporters share the Islamist ideology tho. Otherwise; more people would support Sharia law.

Also Tunisians rejected an Islamist party that attempted to reinstate Sharia law in Tunisia. Erdogan, while being quite religiously conservative, has not attempted to do that.

[Ryujin]

Will these places exist in a few election cycles tho? I doubt it, Turkey is becoming more and more Islamic. I feel sorry for sensible people like yourself. I think Tunisia's islamicness is being overrated slightly.

The incoming of migrants are really making things worse, but I doubt Turks are getting more Islamic. I went to inner Anatolian places and saw that especially young people are more secular and starting to look more like us guys in Izmir.

[Incal]

Well no since you implied starting the arab spring was positive, ben ali was quite secular.

So is the present president Beji Caid Essebsi, the difference is, he was elected by the people unlike the other tyrant who wanted to stay in power forever. An interesting fact about Essebsi is that his great grandfather was a Sardinian kidnapped by Tunisian corsairs.

[Ryujin]

So is the present president Beji Caid Essebsi, the difference is, he was elected by the people unlike the other tyrant who wanted to stay in power forever. An interesting fact about Essebsi is that his great grandfather was a Sardinian kidnapped by Tunisian corsairs.

I wonder who they are gonna elect the next time since the guy is like almost dead.

[rein]

The incoming of migrants are really making things worse, but I doubt Turks are getting more Islamic. I went to inner Anatolian places and saw that especially young people are more secular and starting to look more like us guys in Izmir.

After all Islamist migrants will come to Turkey, their motherland is going to become secular.

[Albobalboa]

Imagine German regions to look like that in 50years awakes my german genocide tendecies

Why? If they still were genetically German, what is the issue? Germans with Islam would be a proper fusion of productivity and masculinity-

Imagine Nazi army efficiency and organization with Allahu Akbar spirit, that's the time to gtfo of the planet for non-Germans. Thank fuck for cuckbois like you willing to hold your people back though, "turn the other cheek" ass boy.

[Ayetooey]

After all Islamist migrants will come to Turkey, their motherland is going to become secular.

LOL, once Assad wins it probably will become more secular.

[Teutone]

Why? If they still were genetically German, what is the issue? Germans with Islam would be a proper fusion of productivity and masculinity-

Imagine Nazi army efficiency and organization with Allahu Akbar spirit, that's the time to gtfo of the planet for non-Germans. Thank fuck for cuckbois like you willing to hold your people back though, "turn the other cheek" ass boy.

bullshit this would be the complete cuck surrendering to a religion and ideology pushing the arabization our ancestors fought against the past 1000years.

[Incal]

I wonder who they are gonna elect the next time since the guy is like almost dead.

Take note so you can do the same when Erdogan gets senile lol

[Albobalboa]

bullshit this would be the complete cuck surrendering to a religion and ideology pushing the arabization our ancestors fought against the past 1000years.

You already surrendered when you became christian. Don't act like you're going to heaven or living as a proper christian either way.

Your ancestors also got bodied by other christians to a far larger extent, and got raped to infinity by your christian brethren. But islam is the issue, gotcha.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

Your ancestors didn't fight jack shit, you fought your christian neighbors. You don't even border any muslim country. When was the last time muslims invaded Berlin and raped millions of your women? Remind me.

Edit: Removed insults, I'm a good christian nowadays.

[Ryujin]

We all should have stayed Pagan.

[Teutone]

You already surrendered when you became christian. Don't act like you're going to heaven or living as a proper christian either way.

Your ancestors also got bodied by other christians to a far larger extent, and got raped to infinity by your christian brethren. But islam is the issue, gotcha.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

Your ancestors didn't fight jack shit, you fought your christian neighbors. You don't even border any muslim country. When was the last time muslims invaded Berlin and raped millions of your women? Remind me.

Edit: Removed insults, I'm a good christian nowadays.

You forgot the turks at vienna or the german order in jerusalem? northern crusades and the frankish empire and volunteerly converted vandal tribes?

Any country that is islamic is a undeveloped shithole not capable of anything this would apply to any european nation too.

Look at your own country.

Skanderberg would be ashamed.

[Teutone]

Europe Okzident vs the Orient while some bastards like sandzaks got cucked by the orient.

[rein]

We all should have stayed Pagan.

Yeah sacrifices to appease gods are so fun.:rolleyes:

[Albobalboa]

You forgot the turks at vienna or the german order in jerusalem? northern crusades and the frankish empire and volunteerly converted vandal tribes?

Any country that is islamic is a undeveloped shithole not capable of anything this would apply to any european nation too.

Look at your own country.

Skanderberg would be ashamed.

Skanderbeg would be going hard as fuck in Albanian lands right now. He would be proud don't lie, we didn't succumb to religious cuckoldry and start cleansing our own brothers and sisters for some middle eastern erotic/fantasy novels.

Imagine Skanderbeg in today's Macedonia or Kosovo lol, the perfect environment for a guy like him. Fucking miss my all niggas from League of Lezhe :(

But let me make my initial point clearer, just to give you a full view of my perspective on German modern history. -

Real German modern history, christian brotherhood: "We were young, strong, and four years without women. So we tried to catch German women and ... Ten men raped one girl. There were not enough women; the entire population run from the Soviet Army. So we had to take young, twelve or thirteen year-old. If she cried, we put something into her mouth. We thought it was fun. Now I can not understand how I did it. A boy from a good family... But that was me." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

German "Men" in 2018: fakk muzlim immigrent fakk bitsh y u mek kebab her! i luv christen bros fakk bitsch fakk fite 1000yr! I hurd der was 2 molestations!

[Teutone]

Skanderbeg would be going hard as fuck in Albanian lands right now. He would be proud don't lie, we didn't succumb to religious cuckoldry and start cleansing our own brothers and sisters for some middle eastern erotic/fantasy novels.

Imagine Skanderbeg in today's Macedonia or Kosovo lol, the perfect environment for a guy like him. Fucking miss my all niggas from League of Lezhe :(

But let me make my initial point clearer, just to give you a full view of my perspective on German modern history. You don't have to agree. -

Real German modern history, christian brotherhood: "We were young, strong, and four years without women. So we tried to catch German women and ... Ten men raped one girl. There were not enough women; the entire population run from the Soviet Army. So we had to take young, twelve or thirteen year-old. If she cried, we put something into her mouth. We thought it was fun. Now I can not understand how I did it. A boy from a good family... But that was me." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

German "Men" in 2018: fakk muzlim immigrent fakk bitsh y u mek kebab her! i luv christen bros fakk bitsch fakk fite 1000yr! I hurd der was 2 molestations!

Are you somewhat mentally retarded? Soviet Union was anti christian.

Dont even know basics about a ideology and try to talk about it.

Are Serbs cucks? They are christian and fucked you all over.

[Ryujin]

Yeah sacrifices to appease gods are so fun.:rolleyes:

At least they did it for a purpose. People hunt down animals for fun nowadays.

[Albobalboa]

Are you somewhat mentally retarded? Soviet Union was anti christian.

Dont even know basics about a ideology and try to talk about it.

Are Serbs cucks? They are christian and fucked you all over.

Same shit in the west. They certainly weren't "orient", they're the current christian brethren of yours.

No they're not cucks like Germans, since they didn't get gangraped only to get Stockholm syndrome - Like the German folk. Serbian-Albanian history is nothing similar to yours.

[Teutone]

Same shit in the west. They certainly weren't "orient", they're the current christian brethren of yours.

No they're not cucks like Germans, since they didn't get gangraped only to get Stockholm syndrome - Like the German folk. Serbian-Albanian history is nothing similar to yours.

We got raped by anti christian mongol hordes while being capable killing 20mio of them while they gave you hoxha a soviet slave, you 3rd world infant.

[Albobalboa]

We got raped by anti christian mongol hordes while being capable killing 20mio of them while they gave you hoxha a soviet slave, you 3rd world infant.

Nice cope, tell me how you really feel.

You got raped, and that's where that ends. What you did is irrelevant since we're discussing who did worst to Germans in modern history. You're proving my point that the big bed muslims haven't been the main issue for modern German history. You just realized that you got fucked so hard that you can't do anything against your superiors, so you tried to find a target for your frustrations.

Convert asap, quit the shenanigans.

[Teutone]

Nice cope, tell me how you really feel.

You got raped, and that's where that ends. What you did is irrelevant since we're discussing who did worst to Germans in modern history. You're proving my point that the big bed muslims haven't been the main issue for modern German history. You just realized that you got fucked so hard that you can't do anything against your superiors, so you tried to find a target for your frustrations.

Convert asap, quit the shenanigans.

Yes totally the Soviet union is the biggest threat to Germany in the year 2018, not the braindead religion of Islam.

[Albobalboa]

Yes totally the Soviet union is the biggest threat to Germany in the year 2018, not the braindead religion of Islam.

How is islam a threat to Germany? I'm living in Germany now and I've travelled around, don't even see a trace of it. Do you get out?

It'd be one thing to say that illegal immigrants were causing societal problems, but blaming islam is simply cope. Which part of Islam is the problem here? Turkey is muslim and fine considering its geopolitical situation. At the same time christian Ukraine looks like dogshit. Be specific

[arkas]

I doubt so. And that is not an objective assesment anyway.

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-3.png

Tunisians = most secular Arabs.

Being self declared as secular or in/not in favor of sharia doesn't necessarily mean anything. A lot of these Central Asian countries are living in totalitarian-like states, yet on paper they are secular which misleads people to they are nicer places to live than they actually are. Look at the murder rates for some of these countries, I'd rather live in a place like Malaysia than Kazakhstan for example and that is despite a higher percent of Malaysians claiming they want Sharia law.

Pakistan for example has about the same murder rate as Turkey and Saudi Arabia has a lower rate than both, who cares if these states call themselves secular, it means nothing.

[Mingle]

Being self declared as secular or in/not in favor of sharia doesn't necessarily mean anything. A lot of these Central Asian countries are living in totalitarian-like states, yet on paper they are secular which misleads people to they are nicer places to live than they actually are. Look at the murder rates for some of these countries, I'd rather live in a place like Malaysia than Kazakhstan for example and that is despite a higher percent of Malaysians claiming they want Sharia law.

Pakistan for example has about the same murder rate as Turkey and Saudi Arabia has a lower rate than both, who cares if these states call themselves secular, it means nothing.

You're confusing secularism with liberalism and peacefulness. Its possible for a country (e.g. Kazakhstan) to be both secular and totalitarian.

[arkas]

You're confusing secularism with liberalism and peacefulness. Its possible for a country (e.g. Kazakhstan) to be both secular and totalitarian.

I know that but it is misleading, secularism isn't necessarily an important factor.

[Ryujin]

Being self declared as secular or in/not in favor of sharia doesn't necessarily mean anything. A lot of these Central Asian countries are living in totalitarian-like states, yet on paper they are secular which misleads people to they are nicer places to live than they actually are. Look at the murder rates for some of these countries, I'd rather live in a place like Malaysia than Kazakhstan for example and that is despite a higher percent of Malaysians claiming they want Sharia law.

Pakistan for example has about the same murder rate as Turkey and Saudi Arabia has a lower rate than both, who cares if these states call themselves secular, it means nothing.

Kazakhstan is sure less developed than Malaysia, but at least in Kazakhstan there would be less sighthing of hijabs and more of miniskirts so I'd choose Kazakhstan. :)

[arkas]

Kazakhstan is sure less developed than Malaysia, but at least in Kazakhstan there would be less sighthing of hijabs and more of miniskirts so I'd choose Kazakhstan. :)

Lmao that is true.

[rein]

Kazakhstan is sure less developed than Malaysia, but at least in Kazakhstan there would be less sighthing of hijabs and more of miniskirts so I'd choose Kazakhstan. :)


You’ve got your priorities set.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/10/33/d3103391040e8b0ad7147680d39e8b1e.jpg

[Ryujin]

You’ve got your priorities set.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d3/10/33/d3103391040e8b0ad7147680d39e8b1e.jpg

Yup!

In my city; miniskirts and alcohol are some sort of symbols for freedom and secularism, so, my standards are set within this context. ;)

Here; I can sit on the grass by the sea all through the night with my girlfriend, drinking beer, dressed freely, having a laugh and kissing. This is all I need!

[Profileid]

Izmir is probably the most secular place with a nominally Muslim-majority population. Most girls, yea most of them, wear miniskirts, Hijab is quite rare and there are bars and pubs all around. Premarital sex is common as well.

That's not something to be bragging about.

[Ryujin]

That's not something to be bragging about.

For me; it is. I'm in love with freedom, babe.

[rein]

For me; it is. I'm in love with freedom, babe.

http://www.sozcu18.com/d/news/11816.jpg

[Mingle]

I know that but it is misleading, secularism isn't necessarily an important factor.How is it misleading? Secularism is just about being non-religious and has nothing to do with totalitarianism or quality of life.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Ryujin]

Laicism, or Laïcité, the origins of modern secularism, means non-clerical. Secular means worldly.

[arkas]

How is it misleading? Secularism is just about being non-religious and has nothing to do with totalitarianism or quality of life.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

Well from some previous posts I saw on this thread, I saw people posting pics of people living a good life and talking about the country being secular, led me to believe they were connecting it to quality of life.

[Ryujin]

Well from some previous posts I saw on this thread, I saw people posting pics of people living a good life and talking about the country being secular, led me to believe they were connecting it to quality of life.

We can't talk about quality of life if there is no freedom.

You know what? this is also the answer to why America dominates the world.

[rein]

We can't talk about quality of life if there is no freedom.

You know what? this is also the answer to why America dominates the world.

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/bumper.jpg

[Marmara]

That's not something to be bragging about.

He's from İzmir, Izmirians are proud of their "liberties".

[lameduck]

Pakistan

[Teutone]

How is islam a threat to Germany? I'm living in Germany now and I've travelled around, don't even see a trace of it. Do you get out?

It'd be one thing to say that illegal immigrants were causing societal problems, but blaming islam is simply cope. Which part of Islam is the problem here? Turkey is muslim and fine considering its geopolitical situation. At the same time christian Ukraine looks like dogshit. Be specific

get the fuck out of my country you worthless diaspora nationalist, go back to Kosovo.

[StonyArabia]

That's not something to be bragging about.

Agreed. I would rather have a modern nation that has conservative values, rather than out-right secular or in this case liberal to the point where there is no self-respect, and STD's flying all around, and people drinking like animals. One thing that I like about Oman it's relatively modern and liberal, but such degeneracy is not expected and would be cracked down by the people themselves. That's not freedom but hedonism.

[Albobalboa]

get the fuck out of my country you worthless diaspora nationalist, go back to Kosovo.

I'm here along with millions of others, a constant flow of pipe for your ladies. Sit still in your basement you little rat.

[rein]

He's from İzmir, Izmirians are proud of their "liberties".

So is societal outlook different in the rest of Turkey?

[Dandelion]

DISGUSTING, denial of europeanism and full arabization.

Very shameful, triggers me alot somehow

Not even Bosniensis would go that far. He doesn't like Germanic Barbarians, but he's an unadmitted Barbarologist and would prefer our society to that of those islamists. :)

Reason is because he likes turbo folk too much.

[rein]

Not even Bosniensis would go that far. He doesn't like Germanic Barbarians, but he's an unadmitted Barbarologist and would prefer our society to that of those islamists. :)

Back to the hunter-gatherer society.

[Dandelion]

Back to the hunter-gatherer society.

Hunter-gatherer, I think that's very far in the past there. ;)

[Ryujin]

So is societal outlook different in the rest of Turkey?

Miniskirts are not as much frequent in inner Anatolia, of course, but still, Turkey is not like any other Islamic place where women have to cover up in hijab or alcohol is banned.

Izmir could have stood out as marginal in most underdeveloped Eastern European nations, too. See how Orthodox people react when I talk about those freedoms that we defend. They think like StonyArabia.

[Ryujin]

double post

[Dandelion]

Decadence is presented in an exaggeratedly negative way as a coping mechanism for some people. We all tend to enjoy freedom, even if it's in a certain degree of moderation. So I'm more with Ryujin here. Even if I think a girl drinking beer in public to be vulgar. :p You once posted a picture of a hijabi woman doing exactly that just to be edgy. It's actually not different from flappers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapper) in the 1920s smoking in public. It's an example of a counter culture as practised by some of the most rebellious ones of society.

[Ryujin]

Even if I think a girl drinking beer in public to be vulgar.

How come it is vulgar? it's no different than you going out with guys and having a drink. Girls can do the same.


It's actually not different from in the 1920s smoking in public.

Groups like FEMEN are trying to seem edgy, but a girl going out and chilling out, drinking beer, chatting with friends is not being edgy. It is completely normal.


a picture of a hijabi woman doing exactly that just to be edgy.

This one is just ridiculous. I don't think it is vulgar. I will just laugh out loud at it, nothing else.

[Dandelion]

How come it is vulgar? it's no different than you going out with guys and having a drink. Girls can do the same.


I dunno. Being in sight on purpose wearing a hijab drinking beer is just similar to that counter-culture of the 1920s in the USA or the likes of Marlène Dietrich in Europe. It's nothing I'm too worried about, don't worry. I have a live-and-let-live attitude. :p

[Ryujin]

I dunno. Being in sight on purpose wearing a hijab drinking beer is just similar to that counter-culture of the 1920s in the USA or the likes of Marlène Dietrich in Europe. It's nothing I'm too worried about, don't worry. I have a live-and-let-live attitude. :p

Are you talking about a Hijabi girl? the first part of your post sounds like you are talking about ANY girl drinking beer in public.

In any case; I don't think these Hijabi girls are doing some sort of a protest like flappers in America. They are just stuck between the way they were raised and the way they want to behave. Flappers, on the other hand, were deliberately challenging the established social norms.

[Dandelion]

Are you talking about a Hijabi girl? the first part of your post sounds like you are talking about ANY girl drinking beer in public.

Oh no. Btw, some minor degree of vulgarity is still alright in my book. It's something to own up to, given the right context and personality. But in this case it's the purposely showing off part I'm talking about, which is of course done with the intention to provoke and push the boundaries. ;)

[Ryujin]

Oh no. Btw, some minor degree of vulgarity is still alright in my book. It's something to own up to, given the right context and personality. But in this case it's the purposely showing off part I'm talking about, which is of course done with the intention to provoke and push the boundaries. ;)

"Even if I think a girl drinking beer in public to be vulgar." is what you said, so I was kinda surprised.

Well, people like to show off. We all show off. You dress nice and show that off. I do that too. You get some tattoos and show it off. You pack on some muscle and show it off, wearing tight clothes or nothing at all. We all do that. Nothing wrong with it in my opinion. I don't see it as some sort of a protest. Girls and guys, going out, chatting and drinking at a pub or on the grass by the sea, just having fun, not necessarily trying to look cool or protest something.

[rein]

Miniskirts are not as much frequent in inner Anatolia, of course, but still, Turkey is not like any other Islamic place where women have to cover up in hijab or alcohol is banned.

Izmir could have stood out as marginal in most underdeveloped Eastern European nations, too. See how Orthodox people react when I talk about those freedoms that we defend. They think like StonyArabia.

Lol, there are many Muslim countries where women don’t have to wear hijab and alcohol is allowed.

[Ryujin]

Lol, there are many Muslim countries where women don’t have to wear hijab and alcohol is allowed.

In many of them, they are not required by law to wear Hijab, however, the vast majority of women are forced to wear it due to environmental conditions, which is not the case in Turkey.

For example, Egypt. Except the major cities, an uncovered woman would be thought of as a non-Muslim Copt, a tourist or just immoral. Hijab is the standard in most Muslim-majority societies. In Turkey, uncovered women can wander around in conservative inner Anatolian places too. I've observed it myself, going to an small Anatolian town. There were young girls and men sitting at cafes, most uncovered. I'm sure this would not be seen in most Middle Eastern countries, except globalized places like Dubai or multi-religious countries like Lebanon. Turkey is a special case here, being supposedly %99 Muslim and yet greatly secularized. This is why Atatürk was such a big genius beyond his time.

[rein]

In many of them, they are not required by law to wear Hijab, however, the vast majority of women are forced to wear it due to environmental conditions, which is not the case in Turkey.

For example, Egypt. Except the major cities, an uncovered woman would be thought of as a non-Muslim Copt, a tourist or just immoral. Hijab is the standard in most Muslim-majority societies. In Turkey, uncovered women can wander around in conservative inner Anatolian places too. I've observed it myself, going to an small Anatolian town. There were young girls and men sitting at cafes, most uncovered. I'm sure this would not be seen in most Middle Eastern countries, except globalized places like Dubai or multi-religious countries like Lebanon.

On the contrary, women are allowed to wear what they want in many other countries. More like in Turkey there are restrictions against hijab.

[Ryujin]

More like in Turkey there are restrictions against hijab.

There used to be. Not anymore.

Good old times... Is what I'd say; if I was my old self. But I've seen some Hijabi women who are not all that shallow-minded especially after I entered college, and saw how unjustifiable it was to extend this ban to universities.

I still believe Hijab should be banned in lower education, tho. And especially the black veil, it should be banned completely for obvious reasons.

[rein]

There used to be. Not anymore.

Good old times... Is what I'd say; if I was my old self. But I've seen some Hijabi women who are not all that shallow-minded especially after I entered college, and saw how unjustifiable it was to extend this ban to universities.

I still believe Hijab should be banned in lower education, tho. And especially the black veil, it should be banned completely for obvious reasons.

And make miniskirts compulsory?
https://plastictearz.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/niqabitchpuff.png?w=500

[Ryujin]

And make miniskirts compulsory?
https://plastictearz.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/niqabitchpuff.png?w=500

Fair enough. :D

[rein]

Fair enough. :D

You can also show your support. :D

https://m.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/turkish-men-are-wearing-miniskirts-womens-rights/2551944/