Are the Saamis really mongoloid or are they just archaic and cold adapted?

[Joso]

Are the Saamis from Nordic countries indeed mongoloid or are they just archaic types( Cro-magnid like) that developed a pseudo-mongoloid look due to cold adaptation?

[Ryuk]

They are Siberian,reason of their mongoloid apperance probably high ANE component.

[Joso]

Saami People:

http://media.tumblr.com/235b78312d97f6dc15f1c85c2bd4b386/tumblr_inline_mu1pwxJaAF1rpr1t4.jpg

http://en.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/83/Sea_sami_man.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jT1sGOQraQ0/UXV3d4pAf1I/AAAAAAACtcA/yS_7Nxw41ZU/s640/Swedish+Sami+mother+and+children+from+J%C3%A4mtlan d+early+1900.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/05/81/dd/0581dd0c15c340858b83c55f3840949d.jpg

http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/Pix/SC/05/SJM0008-16_P.JPG

[Joso]

They are Siberian,reason of their mongoloid apperance probably high ANE component.

Ok but you didn't answered directly the OP's question

[Mingle]

They are around a third Mongoloid. Here are the GEDmatch results of one (don't ask for more calcs cause I don't have anymore, saw this on another forum):

Dodecad K12b:


Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1North_European52.92
2Siberian22.05
3Atlantic_Med10.25
4East_Asian6.28
5Sub_Saharan2.98
6Gedrosia2.65
7South_Asian1.15
8Southeast_Asian1.01
9East_African0.7

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Chuvashs (Behar)11
2Russian (HGDP)22.38
3Mordovians (Yunusbayev)23.77
4FIN30 (1000Genomes)26.22
5Russian (Dodecad)27.17
6Finnish (Dodecad)27.89
7Russian_B (Behar)28.31
8Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)28.75
9Ukranians (Yunusbayev)29.99
10Polish (Dodecad)30.36
11Belorussian (Behar)31.09
12Hungarians (Behar)32.47
13Swedish (Dodecad)32.7
14Lithuanian (Dodecad)32.84
15Norwegian (Dodecad)34.25
16Lithuanians (Behar)34.33
17German (Dodecad)34.38
18Dutch (Dodecad)38.06
19Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)38.18
20CEU30 (1000Genomes)39.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 75.2%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+24.8%Yakut (HGDP)@5.85
2 70.5%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+29.5%Tuva (Rasmussen)@6.36
3 74.1%Finnish (Dodecad)+25.9%Yakut (HGDP)@6.45
4 75.6%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+24.4%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@6.69
5 69.2%Finnish (Dodecad)+30.8%Tuva (Rasmussen)@6.86
6 69.8%Lithuanians (Behar)+30.2%Yakut (HGDP)@6.99
7 76.7%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+23.3%Evenk (Rasmussen)@7.03
8 74.4%Finnish (Dodecad)+25.6%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@7.3
9 73.8%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+26.2%Dolgan (Rasmussen)@7.36
10 70%Lithuanians (Behar)+30%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@7.41
11 67.5%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+32.5%Altai (Rasmussen)@7.57
12 75.6%Finnish (Dodecad)+24.4%Evenk (Rasmussen)@7.71
13 71.3%Lithuanians (Behar)+28.7%Evenk (Rasmussen)@7.72
14 72.2%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+27.8%Buryat (Rasmussen)@7.77
15 66%Finnish (Dodecad)+34%Altai (Rasmussen)@7.89
16 72.6%Finnish (Dodecad)+27.4%Dolgan (Rasmussen)@7.95
17 70.9%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+29.1%Yakut (HGDP)@7.96
18 78.8%Russian (HGDP)+21.2%Yakut (HGDP)@8
19 79%Russian (HGDP)+21%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@8.11
20 71.1%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+28.9%Yukagir (Rasmussen)@8.16

Eurogenes K13:


Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Baltic45.29
2Siberian24.88
3North_Atlantic21.47
4Amerindian3.29
5South_Asian1.68
6East_Asian1.53
7Sub-Saharan1.2
8Oceanian0.35
9West_Asian0.3

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Mari9.8
2Chuvash11.05
3Tatar18.09
4East_Finnish19.68
5Erzya20.95
6Kargopol_Russian21
7Finnish22.64
8Estonian25.54
9Southwest_Russian26.27
10Southwest_Finnish26.33
11Estonian_Polish26.84
12Belorussian27.18
13Ukrainian_Belgorod27.48
14Russian_Smolensk27.62
15Lithuanian27.84
16Ukrainian28.12
17Ukrainian_Lviv28.36
18Polish28.8
19South_Polish29.13
20La_Brana-129.24

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 69.3%East_Finnish+30.7%Selkup@4.82
2 69.4%East_Finnish+30.6%Ket@5.27
3 63.4%Estonian+36.6%Selkup@6.11
4 66.4%Finnish+33.6%Selkup@6.21
5 61.3%Lithuanian+38.7%Selkup@6.61
6 63.4%Estonian+36.6%Ket@6.69
7 66.5%Finnish+33.5%Ket@6.86
8 72.6%Mari+27.4%East_Finnish@6.91
9 75.8%Mari+24.2%Finnish@6.97
10 61.3%Lithuanian+38.7%Ket@6.97
11 77.7%East_Finnish+22.3%Dolgan@7.08
12 80.9%Mari+19.1%La_Brana-1@7.15
13 79.2%Mari+20.8%Southwest_Finnish@7.21
14 79.6%East_Finnish+20.4%Evens@7.28
15 79.2%East_Finnish+20.8%Evenki@7.34
16 79.4%Mari+20.6%Estonian@7.48
17 83.5%Mari+16.5%North_Swedish@7.62
18 77.3%East_Finnish+22.7%Koryak@7.77
19 70.6%Lithuanian+29.4%Dolgan@7.98
20 86.9%Mari+13.1%Swedish@8.08

Dodecad World9:


Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Atlantic_Baltic57.98
2Siberian23.76
3Caucasus_Gedrosia5.7
4African3.67
5East_Asian3.64
6Amerindian3.5
7South_Asian1.35
8Australasian0.4

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Chuvashs (Behar)10.57
2Aleut11.95
3Russian (HGDP)21.94
4Mordovians (Yunusbayev)22.2
5Russian (Dodecad)25.19
6FIN30 (1000Genomes)25.61
7Finnish (Dodecad)25.76
8Russian_B (Behar)26.42
9Ukranians (Yunusbayev)27.78
10Hungarians (Behar)28.79
11Belorussian (Behar)29.38
12Polish (Dodecad)29.79
13German (Dodecad)30.35
14CEU30 (1000Genomes)30.36
15Swedish (Dodecad)30.47
16Dutch (Dodecad)30.47
17Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)30.61
18Argyll (1000 Genomes)30.62
19British (Dodecad)30.65
20Norwegian (Dodecad)30.79

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 62.7%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+37.3%Yukagir@6.06
2 64.2%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+35.8%Koryak@6.13
3 73.3%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+26.7%Yakut (HGDP)@6.2
4 69.8%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+30.2%Koryak@6.22
5 73.2%Finnish (Dodecad)+26.8%Yakut (HGDP)@6.26
6 68.5%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+31.5%Yukagir@6.27
7 64%Lithuanians+36%Koryak@6.29
8 62.6%Lithuanians+37.4%Yukagir@6.32
9 69.7%Finnish (Dodecad)+30.3%Koryak@6.35
10 68.3%Finnish (Dodecad)+31.7%Yukagir@6.37
11 68.6%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+31.4%Evenk@6.41
12 68.1%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+31.9%Yakut (HGDP)@6.44
13 65.9%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+34.1%Dolgan@6.46
14 73.8%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+26.2%Evenk@6.51
15 66.6%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+33.4%Ket@6.54
16 66.5%Finnish (Dodecad)+33.5%Ket@6.59
17 73.7%Finnish (Dodecad)+26.3%Evenk@6.61
18 71.4%FIN30 (1000Genomes)+28.6%Dolgan@6.65
19 60.8%Lithuanian (Dodecad)+39.2%Ket@6.67
20 68.4%Lithuanians+31.6%Evenk@6.71

[The Blade]

Originally Mongoloid and they still display a lot of such characteristics.

[rein]

They’re indigenous Scandinavians.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Both.

[Joso]

Originally Mongoloid and they still display a lot of such characteristics.

they tend to look CM+proto-mongoloid

[Joso]

Both.

Makes sense, i always thought that

[Dick]

They’re indigenous Scandinavians.

I think the only real indigenous people on earth are the negroes in Africa.

[Mingle]

They are Siberian,reason of their mongoloid apperance probably high ANE component.

They're ~30% East Eurasian (Siberian + East Asian). That's probably what causes it.

The ANE is said to be what makes the difference between Amerindians and East Asians, so if anything it would make them look less Mongoloid since the Amerindians look less Mongoloid than East Asians.

Not sure if this map (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tKgMr5w_FIs/VfWL_Dk0d0I/AAAAAAAADb4/x67i8I5mWNw/s1600/ANE_K8.png) is outdated, but it shows that Caucasians have a very high amount of ANE and they don't look Mongoloid influenced (if they ever do its likely cause of Turkic admixture).

[rein]

Very cro-magnon look wouldnt you say.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/508219213199052800/coYBmRps_400x400.jpeg

[Joso]

I think the only real indigenous people on earth are the negroes in Africa.

But certainly not in Scandinavia lol

[Joso]

Very cro-magnon look wouldnt you say.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/508219213199052800/coYBmRps_400x400.jpeg

This nigga is a neanderthal, bro

[Dick]

But certainly not in Scandinavia lol

Saami weren't always in scandinavia. it was full of snow and ice for thousands of years

[rein]

I think the only real indigenous people on earth are the negroes in Africa.

Nah, those were Genociders of European Neanderthals.

[Decius]

Its proven by genetics that they are around 20-25% Mongoloid.

[Ryuk]

81574

this is the most current ANE map I know.

81575

And this is ENA map.

As you see,ANE component more intensive in Saami.

[rein]

Its proven by genetics that they are around 20-25% Mongoloid.

That was before they started mixing with Swedes.

[Mingle]

81574

this is the most current ANE map I know.

81575

And this is ENA map.

As you see,ANE component more intensive in Saami.

Most of the East Eurasian ancestry among Lapps is Siberian not East Asian.

ANE can't be responsible for one looking more Mongoloid since its the component that makes Amerindians look less Mongoloid than East Asians.

[Dick]

That was before they started mixing with Swedes.

They did mix. modern Saami are primarily N1c1 people with a minority of Scandinavian paternal lineages (I1, R1)

[Joso]

Bump

[Sacrificed Ram]

Probably ANE is a race itself.

[Joso]

Probably ANE is a race itself.

yes, probably, and Amerindians would be the modern humans closest to then, they probably looked like South American amerindians, just more archaic maybe

[Sacrificed Ram]

yes, probably, and Amerindians would be the modern humans closest to then, they probably looked like South Amerinca amerindians, just more archaic maybe

A thing we know, they aren't blond and blue eyed, or would exist amerinds with these features.

[Joso]

Most of the East Eurasian ancestry among Lapps is Siberian not East Asian.

ANE can't be responsible for one looking more Mongoloid since its the component that makes Amerindians look less Mongoloid than East Asians.

True

[Joso]

A thing we know, they aren't blond and blue eyed, or would exist amerinds with these features.

Maybe because the light pigmentation genes appeared much later after the immigration of amerindians to the Americas?

[Sacrificed Ram]

Maybe because the light pigmentation genes appeared much later after the immigration of amerindians to the Americas?

Probably the fair features are an adaptation to poor nutritional agricultural lifestyle in Europe, hunter-gatherers didn't need it.

[Veslan]

Yes. And Saamis are not just cold adapted, they are also highland adapted (likely to a plateau, possibly the Mongolian one).
There is no proof for them ever existing in Scandinavia before the Pit-Comb culture, and their original y-DNA marker, N1c, is originally East Asian.

[Joso]

Yes. And Saamis are not just cold adapted, they are also highland adapted (likely to a plateau, possibly the Mongolian one).
There is no proof for them ever existing in Scandinavia before the Pit-Comb culture, and their original y-DNA marker, N1c, is originally East Asian.

Makes sense

[Veslan]

Makes sense

I'll also add that the Inuits who are exclusively cold adapted, have a more "Nordic" look than Saami, who have a more "Alpine" look:

Inuit:
https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/images/typologia/michalski/ii-544554.jpg
Nordic:
http://www.nordish.org/bilder/troe271.jpg

Saami:
https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/images/typologia/czekanowski/laponczyk1.jpg
Alpine:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/PSM_V52_D064_Alpine_type_from_oberwolfach.jpg/430px-PSM_V52_D064_Alpine_type_from_oberwolfach.jpg

[Joso]

I'll also add that the Inuits who are exclusively cold adapted, have a more "Nordic" look than Saami, who have a more "Alpine" look:

Inuit:
https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/images/typologia/michalski/ii-544554.jpg
Nordic:
http://www.nordish.org/bilder/troe271.jpg

Saami:
https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/images/typologia/czekanowski/laponczyk1.jpg
Alpine:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/PSM_V52_D064_Alpine_type_from_oberwolfach.jpg/430px-PSM_V52_D064_Alpine_type_from_oberwolfach.jpg

Very good, Saamis and alpines really look similar some times, some anthropologists( like Czekanowski) even proposded that "alpines are a mix of lappids and armenoids"( but that is probably wrong)

[Joso]

bump