View Full Version : Croats from Herzegovina
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Insuperable
11-10-2018, 10:53 AM
From muh city
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxXiZYXVEKo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl0a8TpTsb8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MakNrUtvTsU
where could these HerzegovI2ans fit ?
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 12:58 PM
where could these HerzegovI2ans fit ?
Ancient Illyria.
Ancient Illyria.
:thumb001:
The Blade
11-10-2018, 02:34 PM
Diverse, like most Balkanites:
- Atlantid, Atlanto-Med, North Pontid, Pontid, Dinarid, Norid, Alpinid, Gorid, Baltid, Cromagnid, Nordid, Tronder
On group level they pass in Hungary, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, Slovenia and Slovakia, more or less, fine.
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 06:12 PM
There is a lot of phenotypes here. Basically I agree with The Blade.
Males are mostly Dinarids and Atlantids, and famales are more Alpinid/Pontid/Gorid range.
There is a lot of phenotypes here. Basically I agree with The Blade.
Males are mostly Dinarids and Atlantids, and famales are more Alpinid/Pontid/Gorid range.
how similar to Herzegovina Serbs ?
They are more paleo-balkan than slavic.Probably,
the mountainous terrain of Herzegovina caused less outcome mixture
İndeed they best fit in ancient illyria.
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 06:19 PM
They are more paleo-balkan than slavic.Probably,
the mountainous terrain of Herzegovina caused less outcome mixture
There overall autosomal picture is still pred Slavic, though they have more paleo-balkan than other Croats.
They are more paleo-balkan than slavic.Probably,
the mountainous terrain of Herzegovina caused less outcome mixture
For sure, they look nothing like Slavs (tall, thin, brunet and long faced), and they have highest concentratioon of I2 in the world :)
girls are more rounded but they look just like other balkan girls, few look slav
There overall autosomal picture is still pred Slavic, though they have more paleo-balkan than other Croats.
I change my opinion, Illyrians also come from Central Europe and IMHO I2 is north Illyrian gene. Plus PH908 that dominates there is uncommon in real slavic people.
Illyrians had lot of eastern european admixture. In reality Croats probably have minor slav genes, they were always more northern/steppe influenced than Albanians (southern Illyrians), just like Romanians etc.
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 06:22 PM
how similar to Herzegovina Serbs ?
They have more similarities than differences in my opinion. Only noticeable difference is more Atlantids among males in this Croatian set.
Herzegovinian Serbs have high Dinarid element, but still they are pretty diverse in phenotypes from my experiences.
I planing thread about Herzegovinian Serbs.
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 06:23 PM
For sure, they look nothing like Slavs (tall, thin, brunet and long faced), and they have highest concentratioon of I2 in the world :)
girls are more rounded but they look just like other balkan girls, few look slav
Trolling aside, there are some outliers who do look much more paleo-Balkan than Slavic.
https://www.atpworldtour.com/-/media/tennis/players/gladiator/2018/cilic_full_ao18.png
This guy must be super I2.
Croats are pred. Eastern Europeans genetically. But prove that northern Illyrians were different than that. Nobody can prove it up to this point.
they have highest concentratioon of I2 in the world
Isn't the high i2-DIN in the Balkans the cause of Slavic migration?
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 06:24 PM
I change my opinion, Illyrians also come from Central Europe and IMHO I2 is north Illyrian gene. Plus PH908 that dominates there is uncommon in real slavic people.
Illyrians had lot of eastern european admixture. In reality Croats probably have minor slav genes, they were always more northern/steppe influenced than Albanians (southern Illyrians), just like Romanians etc.
How can you have a change of heart so quickly, you were a slav supremacist almost before?
Isn't the high i2-DIN in the Balkans the cause of Slavic migration?
It's a speculation. Illyrian tribes came from similar place where Slavs were tousands of years later. When we have early medieval samples from region we will know more.
How can you have a change of heart so quickly, you were a slav supremacist almost before?
I dicovered my Romanian roots :)
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 06:27 PM
I change my opinion, Illyrians also come from Central Europe and IMHO I2 is north Illyrian gene. Plus PH908 that dominates there is uncommon in real slavic people.
Illyrians had lot of eastern european admixture. In reality Croats probably have minor slav genes, they were always more northern/steppe influenced than Albanians (southern Illyrians), just like Romanians etc.
I don't know what the Illyrians were but I doubt they were EV-13 or any of the Albo haplogroups, the Illyrians came from the north originally that much we know and weren't true paleo-balkanic people. Though Illyrians didn't even refer to themselves as such, they were dozens of different unrelated tribes, there's no evidence either way they all were genetically the same, we literally know nothing about them. I don't think they are I2.
Kivan
11-10-2018, 06:28 PM
Mainly North Pontids, Alpines, Gorids, Atlantids, Dinarids, and Norids
How can you have a change of heart so quickly, you were a slav supremacist almost before?
Really,I've also noticed that Jana's last situation.For some reason, I have a bad feeling that Darth Bosniensis has taken over Jana's mind
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 06:32 PM
It's a speculation. Illyrian tribes came from similar place where Slavs were tousands of years later. When we have early medieval samples from region we will know more.
Illyrian sample from Montenegro from pre-Roman period is heavy East European autosomally. Russians and Ukrainians are the closest to that Illyrian sample from Montenegro.
Illyrians originated from Pontic stepe, and similarities of Illyrian sample with Russians and Ukrainian is not weird at all.
Albanian claim on Illyrians is funny. If Albanians are true Illyrians they should be pred. East European genetically and that is not case.
I don't know what the Illyrians were but I doubt they were EV-13 or any of the Albo haplogroups, the Illyrians came from the north originally that much we know and weren't true paleo-balkanic people. Though Illyrians didn't even refer to themselves as such, they were dozens of different unrelated tribes, there's no evidence either way they all were genetically the same, we literally know nothing about them. I don't think they are I2.
They were J2b2 that is proven. Also R1b L23. EV13 is for sure present (pelsagian influence?) and Ev13 has highest diversity in western balkans.
But thing is Illyrian were not ethnic group but bunch of different people similar like balkanite means today. I2 comes from eastern europe and looking it peak in dinaric zone it looks north illyrian to me.
also Dacian due to another peak in Romania and high diversity in Moldova/Carpathian region
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 06:39 PM
They were J2b2 that is proven. Also R1b L23. EV13 is for sure present (pelsagian influence?) and Ev13 has highest diversity in western balkans.
But thing is Illyrian were not ethnic group but bunch of different people similar like balkanite means today. I2 comes from eastern europe and looking it peak in dinaric zone it looks north illyrian to me.
also Dacian due to another peak in Romania and high diversity in Moldova/Carpathian region
I hope I2 isn't Illyrian, the Illyrians were a bunch of disorganised loser tribes, I'd much rather it be a Slavic Y dna. This all seems like guess thinking.
I hope I2 isn't Illyrian, the Illyrians were a bunch of disorganised loser tribes, I'd much rather it be a Slavic Y dna. This all seems like guess thinking.
Okay, that western Herzegovina is most slavic place in the world (I2 + R1a like 90%) in male paternal linages, do you really believe that ? :lol:
Illyrian sample from Montenegro from pre-Roman period is heavy East European autosomally. Russians and Ukrainians are the closest to that Illyrian sample from Montenegro.
Illyrians originated from Pontic stepe, and similarities of Illyrian sample with Russians and Ukrainian is not weird at all.
Albanian claim on Illyrians is funny. If Albanians are true Illyrians they should be pred. East European genetically and that is not case.
Albos are south Illyrians, Illyrians is just how foreign people call these tribes, why do you think they were genetically alike ? :)
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 06:44 PM
Albos are south Illyrians, Illyrians is just how foreign people call these tribes, why do you think they were genetically alike ? :)
I saw an old post from Robocop about Illyrian corpses they found in Kninska Krajina in an old necropolis, do you know anything about this, have they been tested?
I found this about the i2-din
Quote Originally Posted by Artek
Progress in the field of y-DNA testing (Y-DNA sequencing) allowed to confirm that previously done TMRCA estimates for I2-L621(Dinaric) were accurate and I2-DIN(L621) is young.
There are 90+ SNPs on the level of L621 what indicates long bottleneck that lasted through eneolithic, bronze age and big part of iron age period. So the whole Dinaric branch stems from one man who lived around the year of foundation of Rome in Central-Eastern Europe, most likely as a part of proto-Slavic people.
Frequency is meaningless and calculations show that diversity and TMRCA of I2-L621 decreases in the southerly direction. So the frequency in Balkans(Bosnia in particular) is a result of relatively recent founder effect, that happened at start of Slavic presence there and later strengthened regionally. It was just a chance, that Bosnia now is 60% I2, not 60% R1a.
As for now, L621* is found only in Poland and Western Ukraine, Polish haplotype was sequenced. The tree of Dinaric branch is available here http://www.yfull.com/tree/I-L621/
So yes, it's slavic. Very young age allows for ethnic specification of this branch.
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 06:52 PM
Albos are south Illyrians, Illyrians is just how foreign people call these tribes, why do you think they were genetically alike ? :)
Illyrians were small tribe which lived between Boka Kotorska in Montenegro and Konavli in southern Dalmatia.
When Romans conquered western Balkans they created province Illyria from Klagenfurt in Austria to Epirus. This big territory was named by small tribe.
The fact is that first mention of Albanians is in 11th century in central Albania, not in Boka Kotorska/Konavli where original Illyrian tribe lived.
Aspar
11-10-2018, 07:04 PM
They were J2b2 that is proven. Also R1b L23. EV13 is for sure present (pelsagian influence?) and Ev13 has highest diversity in western balkans.
But thing is Illyrian were not ethnic group but bunch of different people similar like balkanite means today. I2 comes from eastern europe and looking it peak in dinaric zone it looks north illyrian to me.
also Dacian due to another peak in Romania and high diversity in Moldova/Carpathian region
Actually the highest diversity of E-V13 is in Bulgaria, Macedonia.
Almost all the branches found in Western Balkans are also found in Bulgaria/Macedonia and plus some branches who are not found in Western Balkans like S7462/Y16729 and some others...
Dukagjini
11-10-2018, 07:14 PM
I see a good amount of paleo-balkan influence. Many look like Albanians.
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 07:15 PM
Another genetic similarities of Bulgarians and Albanians. It's about my haplogroup, as you can see common ancestors of Bullgarian and Albanian guy lived about 1400 years ago https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY16680/
Original homeland of my Vlach people and my cousins Albanians is present day Bulgaria. We are descendants of Thracians. My people came from romanized Thracians, and Albanians are came from non-romanized Thracians known as Bessi.
Albanians migrated from Bulgaria to central Albania in 9th century with Bulgarian tsar Simeon.
Part of Vlachs migrated from Bulgaria to Epirus and Thessaly in 10th century, they are known as Armani/Rramani. My ancestors moved from Epirus to Fyrom in 18th century.
Other part of Vlach migrated from Bulgaria to modern Romania from 12th to 14th century. They mixed with Slavs and Cumans there and created Romanian nation.
Highest diverity of I2-din is in Trascarpathia (western Ukraine), and for sure Slavs assimilated good amount of I2 din (like certain DN branches) but people forget Slavs don't originate in Carpathian mountains but northeastern from that in flatlands.
Even modern Rusyn/Ruthenian people (of which few have White Croat origin oral tradition) are in fact slavicized vlach. Read El Moldovano post about that, oldest toponyms in Carpathians are Vlach/Romanian not Slavic
and Carpathian Slavs differ from proper Slavs in plains in looks, customs and genetics. Paleo Balkan influence reached up until Carpathian chain, not only confined to Albania and Bulgaria lmao.
so even if much of this marker came as Slavic speaking to the Balkans, it was slavicized balkan people who came further south and encountered similar people to them just romanized (with more southernly influences naturally) :D
Crn Volk
11-10-2018, 07:25 PM
Another genetic similarities of Bulgarians and Albanians. It's about my haplogroup R1b>R-BY16680, as you can see common ancestors of Bullgarian and Albanian guy lived about 1400 years ago https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY16680/
Original homeland of my Vlach people and my cousins Albanians is present day Bulgaria. We are descendants of Thracians. My people came from romanized Thracians, and Albanians are came from non-romanized Thracians known as Bessi.
Albanians migrated from Bulgaria to central Albania in 9th century with Bulgarian tsar Simeon.
Part of Vlachs migrated from Bulgaria to Epirus and Thessaly in 10th century, they are known as Armani/Rramani. My ancestors moved from Epirus to Fyrom in 18th century.
Other part of Vlach migrated from Bulgaria to modern Romania from 12th to 14th century. They mixed with Slavs and Cumans there and created Romanian nation.
Good to see Serbo-Croats getting in touch with their Vlach roots here and making peace with their Albanian blood brothers.
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 07:25 PM
Actually the highest diversity of E-V13 is in Bulgaria, Macedonia.
Almost all the branches found in Western Balkans are also found in Bulgaria/Macedonia and plus some branches who are not found in Western Balkans like S7462/Y16729 and some others...
Absolutely true my fyromanized Vlach cousin. :thumb001:
Crn Volk
11-10-2018, 07:26 PM
I dicovered my Romanian roots :)
Vlachs, Vlachs everywhere
Pribislav
11-10-2018, 07:28 PM
Good to see Serbo-Croats getting in touch with their Vlach roots here and making peace with their Albanian blood brothers.
My Fyromian brother, our nation is predominantly of Vlach origin. Genetic of us Fyromians is predominantly paleo-Balkanic.
Ayetooey
11-10-2018, 07:29 PM
Vlachs, Vlachs everywhere
They are both joking, I don't think Privislav has taken a Y dna test.
Good to see Serbo-Croats getting in touch with their Vlach roots here and making peace with their Albanian blood brothers.
he is Vlach, I am Romanian. He is actually cousin of my people.
Aspar
11-10-2018, 07:29 PM
Good to see Serbo-Croats getting in touch with their Vlach roots here and making peace with their Albanian blood brothers.
The feeling when you try so hard that gets to the point you look so unmistakably dumb and annoying and all you get in the end is ... being dumb...
Priceless.
My father Y DNA is not Vlach though, it's Roman, hence proves our Daco-Roman roots :thumb001:
we have slav influence her in Moldova, so what ?
Crn Volk
11-10-2018, 07:31 PM
My Fyromian brother, our nation is predominantly of Vlach origin. Genetic of us Fyromians is predominantly paleo-Balkanic.
Ne zajebavaj chetnichko gomno, mameto ti go ebaa site okolu tebe. Za majtap sve...
Crn Volk
11-10-2018, 07:34 PM
They are both joking, I don't think Privislav has taken a Y dna test.
Trolling I know, but why?
Hungarian_master
11-11-2018, 02:33 PM
By phenotypes they are Dinarid, Pontid, Gorid/Alpinid, sone Norid.
They mostly fit in Balkan countries.
Invidiually many fit in Hungary, but as group they are darker (but even not MENA).
Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
01-14-2019, 10:24 AM
dinarics, meds, alpinids, and few nordics. very west balkan looking (slavic + vlach)
Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
01-14-2019, 10:25 AM
this girl is fire :thumb001:
https://www.grude-online.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSC_0295.jpg
Cumansky
01-14-2019, 10:30 AM
The girl can pass Hungary, dude Albania.
Cumansky
01-14-2019, 10:31 AM
this girl is fire :thumb001:
https://www.grude-online.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSC_0295.jpg
Bump
Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić
01-14-2019, 10:34 AM
https://www.grude-online.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSC_0103.jpg
brunette on the left and blond on the right ain't bad either. damns herzegovina has some nice looking women. none of these are ugly
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