Does faelid exists or not?

[Joso]

Some persons says that faelid don't exists and that this type was created by Gunther as a sub-type of the nordid race because he was a nazi that glorified the nordids but he discovered that Germany's greatest figures(like Leibniz, Kant and Schopenhauer) were almost all brachycephalic.
So faelid individuals woul be classified by Coon as as Borreby, East Baltic, Brunn, Alpine, tronder, subnordid, etc.
So, is that true? does the faelid type really exists?

[Joso]

How faelids are suposed to look like:

http://i.imgur.com/SE1dMEX.jpg

[cyberlorian]

Interesting topic. I am also waiting for some comments.

[Valwar]

It's just a matter of opinion, and a matter of which anthropologist's work you choose to follow.

[Joso]

It's just a matter of opinion, and a matter of which anthropologist's work you choose to follow.

Ok but do you think this type exist? If yes, would it be a mixed type or no?

[Valwar]

Ok but do you think this type exist? If yes, would it be a mixed type or no?

There obviously exists people who fit the description for Fälid. I have classified people as Fälid before, but minimalists may consider the type to be redundant since these people could also be classified as "Nordic" or "Nordic-CM" etc. I think it's considered a "basically unaltered Cro-Magnid" type, so not mixed.

[happycow]

My paternal uncle was classified here as Faelid but also Sub nordid + CM

[Columella]

They exist in German anthropology but not in the “Coon-verse”

How faelids are suposed to look like:

http://i.imgur.com/SE1dMEX.jpg
Interestingly Coon used the same example (v.Hindburg) as a classic “East Baltic” example

Fig. 1 (2 views, Wide World photos). Field Marshal von Hindenburg, a native of East Prussia, and a classic example of the East Baltic racial type, to which many Prussians of the land-owning Junker class belong.
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe071.jpg
So at least we know Eickstedt’s Phalian = Coon’s East Baltic.
Relationship between Coon’s Bruenn and Dalic-Phalian types seems mainly an internet construction.

[Joso]

My paternal uncle was classified here as Faelid but also Sub nordid + CM

Cool, which ancestry is your uncle?

[happycow]

Cool, which ancestry is your uncle?

He's Palestinian. Apparently he looks fully European according to members here.

[Joso]

He's Palestinian. Apparently he looks fully European according to members here.

interesting, a Palestinian faelid?? Can you show his photo?

[happycow]

interesting, a Palestinian faelid?? Can you show his photo?

Sure I will post it here and see if you agree as well?

[Joso]

Sure I will post it here and see if you agree as well?

[url]...[/url.]

Strange, he really looks faelid! Do you know his entire ancestry?

[Token]

Anyone who have read Guenther's book knows it is impossible to take it seriously. Calling it 'pseudo-scientific' would be overly optimistic.

All of the 'Faelid' samples shown by Guenther would fall in one of Coon's 'Upper Paleolithic survivors' or Alpine sub-types, who actually have a well delimited craniometric basis. Faelids as it is used by forumers are most of the times strongly jawed Nordics. Here are some Faelid examples from the original coiner of the term :laugh:

http://i.imgur.com/gMNV4L8.jpg

[happycow]

Strange, he really looks faelid! Do you know his entire ancestry?

Mystery European ancestry. Gedmatch shows I have European ancestry but I don't know anything about it. I still need my dad to take a test.

[Joso]

Anyone who have read Guenther's book knows it is impossible to take it seriously. Calling it 'pseudo-scientific' would be overly optimistic.

All of the 'Faelid' samples shown by Guenther would fall in one of Coon's 'Upper Paleolithic survivors' or Alpine sub-types, who actually have a well delimited craniometric basis. Faelids as it is used by forumers are most of the times strongly jawed Nordics. Here are some Faelid examples from the original coiner of the term :laugh:

http://i.imgur.com/gMNV4L8.jpg

They look alpines or alpine influenced to me, do you agree?
Also, most of the persons classifies as faelid here looks tronder( nordo-cromagnid) most of the time

[Token]

They look alpines or alpine influenced to me, do you agree?
Also, most of the persons classifies as faelid here looks tronder( nordo-cromagnid) most of the time
Yes, they look Alpine.

[Joso]

Yes, they look Alpine.

Yes they look like alpines just a bit more robust. Some guys says that alpines cannot be robust, is that true? I think alpines can be robust just not in the same degree as brunns and borrebies but lots of alpines looks very robust

[Token]

Yes they look like alpines just a bit more robust. Some guys says that alpines cannot be robust, is that true? I think alpines can be robust just not in the same degree as brunns and borrebies but lots of alpines looks very robust
Alpines are robust as a rule. The difference of Borreby and Brunn is that they are robust and tall, while Alpines are medium in stature.

[Joso]

Alpines are robust as a rule. The difference of Borreby and Brunn is that they are robust and tall, while Alpines are medium in stature.

Is borreby closer to alpines or to CMs? I read somewhere that alpines came from R1b paleo-atlantids and J2 Neolithic farmers from the Fertile Crescent. Do borrebies have the same or similar orgins as alpines?

[Token]

Is borreby closer to alpines or to CMs? I read somewhere that alpines came from R1b paleo-atlantids and J2 Neolithic farmers from the Fertile Crescent. Do borrebies have the same or similar orgins as alpines?

Well, going by the classic terminology, Borreby is 'CM'. By the same view, Alpines are partially foetalized Upper Paleolithic survivors - basically reduced Borrebies. Borrebies, Brunns, Alpines and 'Berid' are all part of the same continuum.

[Joso]

Well, going by the classic terminology, Borreby is 'CM'. By the same view, Alpines are partially foetalized Upper Paleolithic survivors - basically reduced Borrebies. Borrebies, Brunns, Alpines and 'Berid' are all part of the same continuum.


Is borreby closer to alpines or to CMs? I read somewhere that alpines came from R1b paleo-atlantids and J2 Neolithic farmers from the Fertile Crescent. Do borrebies have the same or similar orgins as alpines?

I also have read that the hablogroup G is the typical marker of alpines and it has origins in size-reduced cro-magnid Neolithic moiuntain herders from the Caucasus who settled the mountain ranges of Anatolia and Europe

[Joso]

Well, going by the classic terminology, Borreby is 'CM'. By the same view, Alpines are partially foetalized Upper Paleolithic survivors - basically reduced Borrebies. Borrebies, Brunns, Alpines and 'Berid' are all part of the same continuum.

What is exactly berid? I still don't know

[Caveat Emptor]

Well, going by the classic terminology, Borreby is 'CM'. By the same view, Alpines are partially foetalized Upper Paleolithic survivors - basically reduced Borrebies. Borrebies, Brunns, Alpines and 'Berid' are all part of the same continuum.

See - now you're talking.

[Token]

What is exactly berid? I still don't know

Mostly a Mediterranean and Upper Paleolithic blend. It peaks in Iberia, a area where WHG admixture is particularly high, so it does makes sense from a genetic point of view.

[Token]

See - now you're talking.

Like i wrote, 'going by the classic terminology'. This doesn't means that i particularly believe in that.

[Caveat Emptor]

Like i wrote, 'going by the classic terminology'. This doesn't means that i particularly believe in that.

See my IJ haplogroup thread bro when you have time you'll love it - I present a new claim, or rather a question, as to whether I / J and C are directly from upper paleolithic in Europe

[Joso]

bump

[Silver Lining]

Disclaimer: Don't listen to Token, almost everything he has said in this thread is WRONG.

[The Blade]

I copy part of my post from another thread regarding Faelids, among others:
"Dalofaelid isn't even a creation of Hans Günther. It was first observed by Paudler in Dalarna, Sweden (1924). From there the dalisch/dalofalisch and dalische Rasse/Dalsrasse terms. Importantly, Dalofaelid is in fact considered by most anthropologists (including Paudler, Herman Lundborg and other early pioneers) a fully Cro-Magnon type (not a CM/Nordid mix, as some like to point:
http://s001.radikal.ru/i196/1110/87/8da8e7c81230.jpg
Hans Günther only considered it more common in Westphalia than in Dalarna - a very debatable claim of his, indeed."
More about Faelid type:
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rg-dalofalid.htm

[Joso]

I copy part of my post from another thread regarding Faelids, among others:
"Dalofaelid isn't even a creation of Hans Günther. It was first observed by Paudler in Dalarna, Sweden (1924). From there the dalisch/dalofalisch and dalische Rasse/Dalsrasse terms. Importantly, Dalofaelid is in fact considered by most anthropologists (including Paudler, Herman Lundborg and other early pioneers) a fully Cro-Magnon type (not a CM/Nordid mix, as some like to point:
http://s001.radikal.ru/i196/1110/87/8da8e7c81230.jpg
Hans Günther only considered it more common in Westphalia than in Dalarna - a very debatable claim of his, indeed."
More about Faelid type:
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rg-dalofalid.htm

Interesting

[The Blade]

Interesting
It is. Many people only talk about Günther regarding Faelids but that's a wrong approach (he did have his contribution to the matter though).

Borreby is a fully CM type by Coon, btw (I saw you were asking).

[Joso]

It is. Many people only talk about Günther regarding this type but that's a wrong approach (he did have his contribution to the matter though).

Borreby is a fully CM type by Coon, btw (I saw you were asking).

ok, thanks for the help

[Silver Lining]

Some persons says that faelid don't exists and that this type was created by Gunther as a sub-type of the nordid race because he was a nazi that glorified the nordids but he discovered that Germany's greatest figures(like Leibniz, Kant and Schopenhauer) were almost all brachycephalic.

No, this is mostly garbage spouted off in "antifascist literature". In fact, Günther describes his "fälische Rasse" as explicitly long-headed, especially in absolute measurements. The race itself was "discovered" by Fritz Paudler, called "Dalic race". The excuse of saying it's a ploy to nordify Germans is wrong because then he would have claimed its short-headed. They are also supposed to be like 5% of Germans, but later it seems the number was increased as anthropological literature moved on. But according to the internet it's the most common type in Germans, just LOL.



So faelid individuals woul be classified by Coon as as Borreby, East Baltic, Brunn, Alpine, tronder, subnordid, etc.


It's an attempt by other authors to solve the same problem. Coon's Borreby isn't entirely useless, but his Brunn is. His East Baltic and Tronder are composite types, so they aren't even "sub-races" to begin with. This is a sign of populationist thinking in Coon that got stronger later. Sub-Nordic (the term Sub-Nordid was never used by anyone) means either an Alpine-Nordic cross (French anthropology) or a "fleshier" variant of the Nordic race (Deniker).



So, is that true? does the faelid type really exists?

It clearly does. This was statistically proven in the 70s by Ilse Schwidetzky. But interestingly enough, the Faelid trait-set is not correlated with hair color, means: Faelids in Northern Europe are only blond because of their geographical position, while blondness is in fact correlated with the Nordic proper type. So, some authors saw it as a "broader" variant of the Nordics (v.Eickstedt, Lundman), others separated it (Günther, Gottfried Kurth, Lothar Killian).

[Joso]

No, this is mostly garbage spouted off in "antifascist literature". In fact, Günther describes his "fälische Rasse" as explicitly long-headed, especially in absolute measurements. The race itself was "discovered" by Fritz Paudler, called "Dalic race". The excuse of saying it's a ploy to nordify Germans is wrong because then he would have claimed its short-headed. They are also supposed to be like 5% of Germans, but later it seems the number was increased as anthropological literature moved on.



It's an attempt by other authors to solve the same problem. Coon's Borreby isn't entirely useless, but his Brunn is. His East Baltic and Tronder are composite types, so they aren't even "sub-races" to begin with. This is a sign of populationist thinking in Coon that got stronger later. Sub-Nordic (the term Sub-Nordid was never used by anyone) means either an Alpine-Nordic cross (French anthropology) or a "fleshier" variant of the Nordic race (Deniker).



It clearly does. This was statistically proven in the 70s by Ilse Schwidetzky. But interestingly enough, the Faelid trait-set is not correlated with hair color, means: Faelids in Northern Europe are only blond because of their geographical position, while blondness is in fact correlated with the Nordic proper type. So, some authors saw it as a "broader" variant of the Nordics (v.Eickstedt, Lundman), others separated it (Günther, Gottfried Kurth, Lothar Killian).

Is faelid the same thing as paleo-atlantid? They seens similar

[Silver Lining]

Is faelid the same thing as paleo-atlantid? They seens similar

Lundman is the only one that used the term Paleo-Atlantid and he said that Paleo-Atlantids are more primitive, coarser than Dalofaelids. Gottfried Kurth actually used the term "Atlantische Rasse" and put both together, yes. In the end you could say, Dalofaelids are Paleo-Atlantids that got more blond and "civilized" admixture, since blondness is again not correlated with Cromagniform tendencies.

[Joso]

Lundman is the only one that used the term Paleo-Atlantid and he said that Paleo-Atlantids are more primitive, coarser than Dalofaelids. Gottfried Kurth actually used the term "Atlantische Rasse" and put both together, yes. In the end you could say, Dalofaelids are Paleo-Atlantids that got more blond and "civilized" admixture, since blondness is again not correlated with Cromagniform tendencies.

So faelids would be paleo-atlantid with slightly nordid influence? If so, it makes sense

[Joso]

bump