Should English speaking Irish, Scottish and Welsh people be called Celtic?

[Creoda]

I'm starting to disfavour the terms Celt and Celtic.

It's obvious now that there was never any one Celtic people to speak of, and it was simply a connected culture across Europe. My Celtic ancestors were genetically closer to Germans than Gauls, so why call myself Celtic if I don't even speak a Celtic language?

[Mingle]

Even though they don't speak Celtic anymore, their ethnicity's tongues are Celtic tongues. In the case of some Scots though, it may be more appropriate to call them Germanic than Celtic.

The history of Southeast Scots (Eastern Lowland Scotland) is very similar to that of the English. Southeast Scotland went straight from Brythonic (P-Celtic) to English without ever speaking Gaelic (Q-Celtic) in its history. They even used to consider themselves ethnic English even after being conquered by Scotland but lost their English ethnic consciousness after the Scottish Independence Wars where they fought alongside Gaelic-speaking Scots against English invaders. They also called their dialect of English 'Scottish' even though that name was already used for a Celtic language. They also adopted Gaelic culture afterwards, the only English thing that remained of them was their language. Southwest Scotland became Germanic-speaking (Scots-speaking) like the southeast did, but I think this had mostly to do with Lowland Scottish (Scots) spreading to the west in more recent times as SW Scotland never spoke Old English like SE Scotland did.

Linguistic history of the British Isles:

• Ireland: Gaelic-speaking → English-speaking
• Southwest Scotland: Brythonic-speaking → Gaelic-speaking → English-speaking
• North Scotland (Scottish Highlands): Pictish-speaking → Gaelic-speaking → English speaking
• Southeast Scotland & England: Brythonic-speaking → English-speaking
• Eastern Wales: Brythonic-speaking → English-speaking

It should be noted though that there are many people from eastern Lowland Scotland that have Gaelic (Highland Scottish) ancestry because many Highland Scots settled Lowland Scotland after the highland clearances in Scotland and mixed with the locals and adopted the local English/Scots language. This in addition to belonging to the same ethnicity as the rest of Scotland would be why many of them would claim to be Celtic but I've seen a Lowland Scot identify as Germanic before as opposed to Celtic. IMO, these English-speaking groups you mentioned have claims to both Germanic and Celtic identities (especially in the case of Lowland Scots).

[Dick]

Your ancestors had no idea who they were genetically closer to. Culture/language(mostly thanks to females) is what bound tribes together but call yourself whatever the fuck you want to.

[Creoda]

Even though they don't speak Celtic anymore, their ethnicity's tongues are Celtic tongues. In the case of some Scots though, it may be more appropriate to call them Germanic than Celtic.

The history of Southeast Scots (Eastern Lowland Scotland) is very similar to that of the English. Southeast Scotland went straight from Brythonic (P-Celtic) to English without ever speaking Gaelic (Q-Celtic) in its history. They even used to consider themselves ethnic English even after being conquered by Scotland but lost their English ethnic consciousness after the Scottish Independence Wars where they fought alongside Gaelic-speaking Scots against English invaders. They also called their dialect of English 'Scottish' even though that name was already used for a Celtic language. They also adopted Gaelic culture afterwards, the only English thing that remained of them was their language. Southwest Scotland became Germanic-speaking (Scots-speaking) like the southeast did, but I think this had mostly to do with Lowland Scottish (Scots) spreading to the west in more recent times as SW Scotland never spoke Old English like SE Scotland did.

Linguistic history of the British Isles:

• Ireland: Gaelic-speaking → English-speaking
• Southwest Scotland: Brythonic-speaking → Gaelic-speaking → English-speaking
• North Scotland (Scottish Highlands): Pictish-speaking → Gaelic-speaking → English speaking
• Southeast Scotland & England: Brythonic-speaking → English-speaking
• Eastern Wales: Brythonic-speaking → English-speaking

It should be noted though that there are many people from eastern Lowland Scotland that have Gaelic (Highland Scottish) ancestry because many Highland Scots settled Lowland Scotland after the highland clearances in Scotland and mixed with the locals and adopted the local English/Scots language. This in addition to belonging to the same ethnicity as the rest of Scotland would be why many of them would claim to be Celtic but I've seen a Lowland Scot identify as Germanic before as opposed to Celtic. IMO, these English-speaking groups you mentioned have claims to both Germanic and Celtic identities (especially in the case of Lowland Scots).
I'm not claiming they should be called Germanic btw. It should be enough to call them any variation of Brittanic, Brittonic, Irish or Gaelic.

They are historically Celtic nations yes, but the vast majority of the ethnicities' tongues are now non-Celtic. Does the past matter more than the present for classification? Are the non-Celtic speakers not part of the ethnicity? They are racially 'Brittanic' (British Isles cluster) and have been for 4000+ years.

[Daco Celtic]

As was said, "Celtic" refers more to a common language than a unified race of people. The "Celts" of the British Isle are not exactly the same as the Hallstatt Celts of Central Europe although they do have a common language. Some experts believe the Celtic language emerged along the Atlantic coast of Europe, from Spain to the British Isles. I use the term in a somewhat jocular way but when I do think of Celts, I'll be honest, I think of the Irish.

Maybe this video can help explain things.


https://youtu.be/G8FM9nMFbfI

[Daco Celtic]

I should add that Celtic speaking people were found throughout Europe. They even made their way into Southeastern Europe and some of the best "Celtic" artifacts were found in Transylvania of all places, including the helmet featured in my avatar. Of course, these Celts were more closely related to the Hallstatt people of Central Europe than the people of the British Isles. I have an affinity for the term "Celt" because it linguistically binds Ireland to some historic Romanian culture but has nothing to do with a race of people. I would also disfavor its use a use as a racial term because in that sense it is useless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts_in_Transylvania

[Fantomas]

As was said, "Celtic" refers more to a common language than a unified race of people. The "Celts" of the British Isle are not exactly the same as the Hallstatt Celts of Central Europe although they do have a common language. Some experts believe the Celtic language emerged along the Atlantic coast of Europe, from Spain to the British Isles. I use the term in a somewhat jocular way but when I do think of Celts, I'll be honest, I think of the Irish.

Maybe this video can help explain things.

I agree with Mr. Cunliffe, but as always, there doesn't mention about druids.Besides common or kindred languages, Celtic world more resembled Christianic medieval Europe with unified religion and lawmaking system

[Graham]

A country has to have a history and background.

Scots identify more with Ireland because of the gaelic background than say Wales. But more importantly just as Scots, who in some places have traditions that are not Celtic also.

There are Gaelic speakers in the hebridees who identify with Viking roots even!

[Graham]

Scots, Irish and Welsh use celts in a political way to exclude the English. (Not saying that is nice or politically correct).

It doesn't have a massive meaning to any nation.

[Creoda]

Scots, Irish and Welsh use celts in a political way to exclude the English. (Not saying that is nice or politically correct).

It doesn't have a massive meaning to any nation.
Of course I'm aware of this. Thread was partially inspired by this tweet and video.
https://i.postimg.cc/NjvPP3SH/Capture2.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSlznFE15RY

[Grace O'Malley]

Good question. I'm finding the whole Celtic thing confusing lately. I'm now more in favour of Gaelic as far as Irish as a descriptor. I've got my doubts about any pan-Celticity.

[Graham]

Ahhh fecked up last post, so had to delete it.

Angus MacNeil is an MP i know. Comes from Barra, who are close community from clan McNeil. They were a sea faring clan of viking-gaelic origin.

Beautiful part of the world, Barra. But they have roots from withing the Lord of the Isles.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3804/11607358164_4df6066a56_k.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Kisimul_Castle_20090609.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Kingdom_of_the_Isles%2C_circa_1200_%28png_version% 29_02.png

[Fantomas]

Of course I'm aware of this. Thread was partially inspired by this tweet and video.

Celts not just existed as ethnic group and clearly separated by ancient authors from another nations. The name "Celts" was their endonym, unlike the term "Germanics", which is actively used in this video, was exonym and had never used by Germanic people. Yes, T.Holland is right saying that term Celts never used toward Britons and it's rather Modern era replica re-invented in parallel with "Germanic nations" by romantist historians.
But, can pre-historic nations which had common origin, relative language, the same religion, similar culture, political organization and even identical tribal names, "Brigantes" for example, called by one common name, at least symbolically? Yes, i think so. Why not. And it'd be closer to reality and more legitimate, than using of the term "Germanic'' whatever it means