Resukts of a Sicilian (Trapani) Northern shifted

[FilhoV]

NOTE: This person was mistakenly identified as being from Palermo. This was an error, they are from Alcamo, Trapani.

Continuing the trend of posting results with photos

Here are the results of someone who is 100% Sicilian all his family is from the Trapani region.

https://i.imgur.com/k1cm3bi.png

https://i.imgur.com/dIPBO1H.jpg


https://imgur.com/a/sjvjhjv


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.76
2 West_Med 22.43
3 North_Atlantic 20.13
4 West_Asian 13.51
5 Baltic 8.51
6 Red_Sea 4.82
7 Oceanian 1.03
8 Northeast_African 0.62
9 South_Asian 0.19
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Sicilian 2.99
2 Italian_Abruzzo 3.31
3 Central_Greek 3.93
4 East_Sicilian 4.03
5 South_Italian 4.98
6 Greek_Thessaly 8.08
7 Ashkenazi 8.39
8 Tuscan 8.4
9 Sephardic_Jewish 11.03
10 Italian_Jewish 11.08
11 Algerian_Jewish 11.66
12 North_Italian 14.75
13 Tunisian_Jewish 15.42
14 Libyan_Jewish 16.02
15 Bulgarian 16.54
16 Romanian 18.27
17 Cyprian 18.54
18 Lebanese_Muslim 21.82
19 Turkish 22.01
20 Serbian 22.24
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.2% West_Sicilian + 41.8% Central_Greek @ 1.44
2 55.7% North_Italian + 44.3% Cyprian @ 1.59
3 86.7% South_Italian + 13.3% West_German @ 1.63
4 87.2% South_Italian + 12.8% South_Dutch @ 1.65
5 85.4% South_Italian + 14.6% French @ 1.67
6 88.9% South_Italian + 11.1% Southeast_English @ 1.69
7 89.3% South_Italian + 10.7% Southwest_English @ 1.7
8 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% North_Dutch @ 1.73
9 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Orcadian @ 1.76
10 90% South_Italian + 10% Swedish @ 1.76
11 90% South_Italian + 10% Norwegian @ 1.78
12 87% South_Italian + 13% Austrian @ 1.8
13 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Danish @ 1.8
14 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Irish @ 1.81
15 89.1% South_Italian + 10.9% North_German @ 1.81
16 69.2% Tuscan + 30.8% Cyprian @ 1.82
17 89.8% South_Italian + 10.2% West_Scottish @ 1.83
18 94.2% West_Sicilian + 5.8% Georgian @ 1.83
19 63.9% South_Italian + 36.1% Tuscan @ 1.84
20 94.6% West_Sicilian + 5.4% Abhkasian @ 1.85


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.26
2 Atlantic_Med 29.22
3 North_European 15.53
4 Southwest_Asian 11.38
5 Gedrosia 6.48
6 Northwest_African 3.1
7 South_Asian 0.68
8 East_African 0.34
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.77
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.99
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 6.35
4 Greek (Dodecad) 6.99
5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.71
6 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.78
7 O_Italian (Dodecad) 9.13
8 Tuscan (HGDP) 10.3
9 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 11.36
10 TSI30 (Metspalu) 11.39
11 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 13.25
12 N_Italian (Dodecad) 17.35
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 18.63
14 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 19.58
15 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 19.87
16 Cypriots (Behar) 20.22
17 Romanians (Behar) 20.87
18 Turkish (Dodecad) 21.42
19 Turks (Behar) 23.95
20 Lebanese (Behar) 24.27
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 8.6% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 1.44
2 89.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.7% German (Dodecad) @ 1.53
3 91.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 8.5% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 1.58
4 55.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 44.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.62
5 88.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.3% Hungarians (Behar) @ 1.69
6 79.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 20.1% Lebanese (Behar) @ 1.75
7 89.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.4% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.79
8 90.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 9.9% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.83
9 93.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.5% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.85
10 93.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.3% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 1.9
11 90.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 9.2% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.93
12 91.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 8.1% Polish (Dodecad) @ 1.94
13 91% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 9% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.96
14 61.5% N_Italian (Dodecad) + 38.5% Druze (HGDP) @ 1.97
15 90.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 9.5% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2
16 92.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 7.5% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.01
17 90.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 9.5% English (Dodecad) @ 2.01
18 92.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 7.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.02
19 91% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 9% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.02
20 93.6% S_Italian_Sic


puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle results:
puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 42.01
2 Caucasus_HG 24.8
3 European_HG 19.13
4 Near_East 11.06
5 Oceanian 1.11
6 Sub-Saharan 0.96
7 South_Asian 0.66
8 Amerindian 0.27
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_West 4.13
2 Tuscan 4.98
3 Sicilian_East 5.17
4 Ashkenazi_Jew 5.32
5 Greek 5.53
6 Albanian 7.05
7 Turkish_Jew 11.53
8 Moroccan_Jew 11.85
9 Bulgarian 13.32
10 Italian_Bergamo 14.39
11 Turkish_Aydin 15.63
12 Spanish_Canaries 16.15
13 Libyan_Jew 16.42
14 Spanish_Southwest 17.05
15 Cypriot 17.49
16 Tunisian_Jew 18.25
17 Romanian 18.79
18 Croatian 19.93
19 Lebanese 20.03
20 Spanish_Northeast 20.08
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.5% Tuscan + 19.5% Lebanese @ 1.12
2 62.9% Albanian + 37.1% Moroccan_Jew @ 1.22
3 80.3% Sicilian_East + 19.7% French @ 1.22
4 84.3% Tuscan + 15.7% Jordanian @ 1.24
5 72.4% Albanian + 27.6% Tunisian_Jew @ 1.25
6 70.3% Albanian + 29.7% Libyan_Jew @ 1.31
7 83.7% Tuscan + 16.3% Palestinian @ 1.32
8 68.7% Greek + 31.3% Moroccan_Jew @ 1.35
9 75.4% Greek + 24.6% Libyan_Jew @ 1.38
10 77.3% Greek + 22.7% Tunisian_Jew @ 1.42
11 64.1% Sicilian_West + 35.9% Albanian @ 1.46
12 68.2% Greek + 31.8% Turkish_Jew @ 1.46
13 84.6% Tuscan + 15.4% BedouinA @ 1.47
14 55.2% Sicilian_West + 44.8% Tuscan @ 1.49
15 57.4% Spanish_Northeast + 42.6% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.5
16 58% Sicilian_West + 42% Greek @ 1.5
17 51% Tuscan + 49% Sicilian_East @ 1.52
18 83.2% Tuscan + 16.8% Syrian @ 1.52
19 77% Ashkenazi_Jew + 23% Spanish_Southwest @ 1.56
20 62.5% Albanian + 37.5% Turkish_Jew @ 1.61
O

[Leto]

Nice. He doesn't look Middle Eastern at all. Looks fully white.

[xripkan]

He must have Greek and not Arabian/North African input.

[FilhoV]

Actually I had a few Sicilian kits that came out similar to his


Also his first population is West Sicily as a low distance

[Sikeliot]

He is shifted toward Greece, you can see the distance to "Central Greek" is only just above 3, and Thessaly is fairly close on his list compared to most Sicilians (8). This is because of the higher than average Baltic type DNA.

My personal guess is some assimilated ARBERESHE (Sicilian Albanian) ancestry.

Still, on 2 of the 3 calculators he is closer to Lebanon than to Spain, and is still plotting south of most Trapani, Syracuse, and Ragusa samples, and their closest Greek matches are still in the islands, not on the mainland. So the northern shift is not as large as in some other people.

[FilhoV]

I’ll add some more calculators

puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:

puntDNAL K13 Oracle



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 40.7
2 West_Asia 22.51
3 NE_Europe 17.86
4 SW_Asia 14.17
5 Oceania 1.3
6 South_Asia 1.3
7 South_Africa 1.01
8 East_Africa 0.36
9 SE_Asia 0.36
10 NE_Asia 0.22
11 Siberia 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 4.08
2 Italian_Sicilian 4.58
3 Ashkenazy_Jew 4.61
4 Greek_Central 6.57
5 Sephardic_Jew 8.38
6 Greek_Thessaly 9.36
7 Albanian 9.86
8 Italian_Tuscan 10.52
9 Kosovar 11.21
10 Italian_Bergamo 15.87
11 Bulgarian 16.08
12 Macedonian 16.31
13 Cypriot 16.74
14 Turkish 17.74
15 Romanian 18.62
16 Montenegrin 19.31
17 Turkish_Kayseri 20.06
18 Turkish_Aydin 20.08
19 Spaniard 21.45
20 Serbian 21.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.6% Lebanese_Druze + 43.4% French_Basque @ 2.52
2 55.6% Lebanese_Muslim + 44.4% French_Basque @ 2.75
3 88.9% Italian_Sicilian + 11.1% French_Basque @ 2.75
4 81.2% Italian_Sicilian + 18.8% Italian_Bergamo @ 2.81
5 85.6% Italian_Sicilian + 14.4% Spaniard @ 2.87
6 89.1% Ashkenazy_Jew + 10.9% French_Basque @ 2.92
7 74.5% Italian_Sicilian + 25.5% Italian_Tuscan @ 3.02
8 56.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 43.9% Italian_Sicilian @ 3.14
9 57.4% Syrian + 42.6% French_Basque @ 3.16
10 89% Italian_Sicilian + 11% French @ 3.18
11 57.2% Lebanese_Christian + 42.8% French_Basque @ 3.28
12 90.4% Italian_Sicilian + 9.6% Belgian @ 3.3
13 86.9% Ashkenazy_Jew + 13.1% Spaniard @ 3.31
14 90.3% Italian_Sicilian + 9.7% German_South @ 3.31
15 83% Ashkenazy_Jew + 17% Italian_Bergamo @ 3.33
16 51.4% Italian_Bergamo + 48.6% Cypriot @ 3.35
17 74.9% Italian_Sicilian + 25.1% Albanian @ 3.37
18 91.2% Italian_Sicilian + 8.8% English @ 3.38
19 91.6% Italian_Sicilian + 8.4% Orcadian @ 3.39
20 91.5% Italian_Sicilian + 8.5%

[Sikeliot]

I still think Arbereshe input. What is their exact town of origin?

[FilhoV]

I still think Arbereshe input. What is their exact town of origin?

Not sure I can ask

[FilhoV]

I still think Arbereshe input. What is their exact town of origin?

He is from Alcamo

[Rgvgjhvv]

Nice. He doesn't look Middle Eastern at all. Looks fully white.

Why the hell would he? Don't listen to Sikeliot wtf

[Rgvgjhvv]

See Sikeliot this is what happens. You have people here who expect every Sicilian to look Middle Eastern. Jesus christ

[Tauromachos]

See Sikeliot this is what happens. You have people here who expect every Sicilian to look Middle Eastern. Jesus christ

Most Sicilians looks simply Sicilian

Neither Middle Eastern nor Central European

[Sikeliot]

See Sikeliot this is what happens. You have people here who expect every Sicilian to look Middle Eastern. Jesus christ

No one said anything about physical appearance. We don't know what they look like.

The result is still more middle eastern than yours.

But they're from a town close to the Trapani border so they shift a bit north but not as much as a Trapanese.

[Sikeliot]

He is from Alcamo

That explains it. Close to border with Trapani.

[Sikeliot]

Most Sicilians looks simply Sicilian

Neither Middle Eastern nor Central European

This persons result is close to North Aegean and Cyclades people as well as the Central Greece cluster.

[Rgvgjhvv]

No one said anything about physical appearance. We don't know what they look like.

The result is still more middle eastern than yours.

But they're from a town close to the Trapani border so they shift a bit north but not as much as a Trapanese.

You're an idiot. He posted a picture and the first commenter said he doesn't look Middle Eastern, but fully white.

Read before you thumbs down, asshole

[Sikeliot]

You're an idiot. He posted a picture and the first commenter said he doesn't look Middle Eastern, but fully white.

Read before you thumbs down, asshole

I gave thumbs down because you brought my name up to be rude when I've done nothing to you. It was unprovoked. I didn't see the photo then but I did now. He looks SE Euro-- Italian, Greek, Albanian. Learn to express disagreement without being rude. I never talk to you the way you talk to me.

[Tauromachos]

This persons result is close to North Aegean and Cyclades people as well as the Central Greece cluster.

The person gets even Thessalian at 6

[Leto]

No one said anything about physical appearance. We don't know what they look like.

The result is still more middle eastern than yours.

But they're from a town close to the Trapani border so they shift a bit north but not as much as a Trapanese.
It's not 'they', it's a man and there's a photo of him in the OP. He doesn't look Lebanese fortunately (no problem with Lebs looking Lebanese).

[Rgvgjhvv]

I gave thumbs down because you brought my name up to be rude when I've done nothing to you. It was unprovoked. I didn't see the photo then but I did now. He looks SE Euro-- Italian, Greek, Albanian. Learn to express disagreement without being rude. I never talk to you the way you talk to me.

I rarely am rude to you. I'm much more cordial than most Greeks here, which you seem to always have something bad to say about us

[Leto]

Why the hell would he? Don't listen to Sikeliot wtf
Well, to be honest not all Sicilians look conventionally white. I mean like most continental Europeans and Britons. That man is not even swarthy.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Well, to be honest not all Sicilians look conventionally white. I mean like most continental Europeans and Britons. That man is not even swarthy.

Vast majority are white, meditarannean looking. Many have dark curly hair. Barely any look Middle Eastern in reality

[Sikeliot]

Vast majority are white, meditarannean looking. Many have dark curly hair. Barely any look Middle Eastern in reality

False.

[Sikeliot]

He is from Alcamo

Alcamo is Trapani!! How could I be so neglectful. He is not Palermitan and it shows in his result! Can you change thread title?

Palermo is a bit more MENA usually.

[Sikeliot]

It's not 'they', it's a man and there's a photo of him in the OP. He doesn't look Lebanese fortunately (no problem with Lebs looking Lebanese).

Some Sicilians look Levantine, some (most?) look Italian and Greek. Genetically he's on the northern shifted end and from Trapani.

[rein]

Some Sicilians look Levantine, some (most?) look Italian and Greek. Genetically he's on the northern shifted end and from Trapani.

Some Sicilians look nordic.

[FinalFlash]

Well, to be honest not all Sicilians look conventionally white. I mean like most continental Europeans and Britons. That man is not even swarthy.

To be fair, a lot of Europeans dont look mainstream Anglo or German either.

[FilhoV]

Alcamo is Trapani!! How could I be so neglectful. He is not Palermitan and it shows in his result! Can you change thread title?

Palermo is a bit more MENA usually.

How can I change it

[Sikeliot]

Some Sicilians look nordic.

They can be blonde and blue eyed but almost no one has Scandinavian features. But you find light people in all Mediterranean countries.

[Sikeliot]

How can I change it

Want me to?

I swear the Palermo Trapani border is a genetic barrier because I have many results from the Palermo side that are much more south shifted than this.

[FinalFlash]

They can be blonde and blue eyed but almost no one has Scandinavian features. But you find light people in all Mediterranean countries.

I think the overwhelmingly majority simply look Greek and Italian. Cant imagine Nordics or pseudo Levantine looking individuals make up more than 10% of the island. And that's probably pushing it too.

[FilhoV]

Want me to?

I swear the Palermo Trapani border is a genetic barrier because I have many results from the Palermo side that are much more south shifted than this.


Sure no problem you can

[Mingle]

Want me to?

I swear the Palermo Trapani border is a genetic barrier because I have many results from the Palermo side that are much more south shifted than this.

He got West Sicilian as his top match. I thought people from Trapani were more northern shifted and got East Sicilian as their top match?

[Rgvgjhvv]

False.

What do you mean false? Do you think they're brown???

[Leto]

To be fair, a lot of Europeans dont look mainstream Anglo or German either.
Armenians are white only on paper. Do you even identify as such in the US?

[rein]

Armenians are white only on paper. Do you even identify as such in the US?

Yes, they identify as Caucasian.

[FinalFlash]

Armenians are white only on paper. Do you even identify as such in the US?

I identify as Armenian. And yes we do identify as white/Caucasian. Maybe from a Russian perspective we arent considered white, but in the New World, yes.

[Sikeliot]

What do you mean false? Do you think they're brown???

No, I am simply disputing your notion that finding MENA looking Sicilians is like a needle in a haystack. I'd say in some regions of the island it's a sizable minority.


He got West Sicilian as his top match. I thought people from Trapani were more northern shifted and got East Sicilian as their top match?

No, Trapani is the basis of the "West Sicily" cluster hence why he scores it so much. East Sicily is based on Syracuse and is also a bit north shifted compared to most Sicilians. This is what I was complaining about before, the two samples aren't representative for Palermitans, Messinese, etc.

Sarno et al 2017 found elevated South Balkan/Greek-like admixture in Trapani, so that explains why their next closest match is "Central Greece" which is highly scored by Peloponnesians, Cyclades, and North Aegean islanders.


I think the overwhelmingly majority simply look Greek and Italian. Cant imagine Nordics or pseudo Levantine looking individuals make up more than 10% of the island. And that's probably pushing it too.

In some parts of the island, Semitic influences are more prominent in the appearances, others much more rare. We have been over this multiple times. But I would say 70% of the island looks pretty standard south Italian/Aegean/Greek islander, with most of the rest showing elevated Levantine input in their appearance.

[Leto]

Yes, they identify as Caucasian.
Caucasian is synonymous with white only in North America.

[FinalFlash]

No, I am simply disputing your notion that finding MENA looking Sicilians is like a needle in a haystack. I'd say in some regions of the island it's a sizable minority.



No, Trapani is the basis of the "West Sicily" cluster hence why he scores it so much. East Sicily is based on Syracuse and is also a bit north shifted compared to most Sicilians. This is what I was complaining about before, the two samples aren't representative for Palermitans, Messinese, etc.

Sarno et al 2017 found elevated South Balkan/Greek-like admixture in Trapani, so that explains why their next closest match is "Central Greece" which is highly scored by Peloponnesians, Cyclades, and North Aegean islanders.



In some parts of the island, Semitic influences are more prominent in the appearances, others much more rare. We have been over this multiple times. But I would say 70% of the island looks pretty standard south Italian/Aegean/Greek islander, with most of the rest showing elevated Levantine input in their appearance.

70% sounds reasonable. As for the rest of the 30%, how would you break them down?

[Leto]

I identify as Armenian. And yes we do identify as white/Caucasian. Maybe from a Russian perspective we arent considered white, but in the New World, yes.
But you are American, aren't you? Armenians are not Europeans and don't look like ones, I don't think I'm saying something contentious right here. Though many do have light skin. Are you light-skinned?

[FinalFlash]

Caucasian is synonymous with white only in North America.

In America anyone who is of European, Middle eastern and North African stock is considered as a white person. Being white isnt limited to being only European out here. Socially, it simply varies.

[Sikeliot]

Eurogenes K15 was not posted but here is their result. You can see that there is likely both a heavier Greek input, and some Norman, which makes this person shift north of other Sicilians (see also Bulgaria before Lebanon in their top 20 which shows this), but they still score Lebanese before Iberian which I think is true for 90%+ of Sicilians.


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.72
2 West_Med 17.44
3 Atlantic 16.89
4 West_Asian 14.37
5 North_Sea 10.59
6 Eastern_Euro 4.93
7 Red_Sea 4.88
8 Baltic 2.92
9 Oceanian 0.75
10 Northeast_African 0.51

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 3.56
2 West_Sicilian 4.33
3 Central_Greek 5.35
4 East_Sicilian 5.47
5 South_Italian 6.15
6 Ashkenazi 7.73
7 Tuscan 8.6
8 Greek 8.95
9 Italian_Jewish 9.07
10 Sephardic_Jewish 9.84
11 Greek_Thessaly 10.34
12 Algerian_Jewish 10.9
13 Tunisian_Jewish 14.43
14 North_Italian 14.84
15 Bulgarian 16.07
16 Libyan_Jewish 16.44
17 Cyprian 17.06
18 Romanian 17.85
19 Turkish 19.59
20 Lebanese_Muslim 20.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.1% West_Sicilian + 7.9% Georgian @ 2.82
2 92.8% West_Sicilian + 7.2% Abhkasian @ 2.84
3 91.7% West_Sicilian + 8.3% Tabassaran @ 2.85
4 91.5% West_Sicilian + 8.5% Lezgin @ 2.86
5 83.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 16.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.88
6 80.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 19.3% Italian_Jewish @ 2.9
7 92.1% West_Sicilian + 7.9% Ossetian @ 2.91
8 90.8% West_Sicilian + 9.2% Kumyk @ 2.99
9 89.4% West_Sicilian + 10.6% Armenian @ 2.99
10 92% West_Sicilian + 8% Adygei @ 3
11 62% Italian_Abruzzo + 38% West_Sicilian @ 3
12 92.3% West_Sicilian + 7.7% Chechen @ 3.02
13 83.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 16.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.05
14 92.1% West_Sicilian + 7.9% Balkar @ 3.08
15 92.2% West_Sicilian + 7.8% Kabardin @ 3.12
16 89.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 10.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.12
17 90.7% Italian_Abruzzo + 9.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.15
18 92.9% West_Sicilian + 7.1% North_Ossetian @ 3.15
19 57.8% Cyprian + 42.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.18
20 90% West_Sicilian + 10% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.21

[Leto]

In America anyone who is of European, Middle eastern and North African stock is considered as a white person. Being white isnt limited to being only European out here. Socially, it simply varies.
Come on, no one regards Usama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as white. Even many Arabs in the US didn't want to be included into the white category, I guess because it's non-whites nowadays who get more gibs. Kim Kardashian doesn't look white to most Americans and she's only half.

[FinalFlash]

But you are American, aren't you? Armenians are not Europeans and don't look like ones, I don't think I'm saying something contentious right here. Though many do have light skin. Are you light-skinned?

The bulk of Armenians generally have white to light olive skin pigmentation maybe 60-70%. A significant amount have a light brown or dark olive tone. The darker ones wont be viewed as white by most people because skin tone is a major factor here. No I'm not fair skinned but I have an olive skin tone that isnt "dark" but not fair either.

[Mingle]

No, Trapani is the basis of the "West Sicily" cluster hence why he scores it so much. East Sicily is based on Syracuse and is also a bit north shifted compared to most Sicilians. This is what I was complaining about before, the two samples aren't representative for Palermitans, Messinese, etc.

Sarno et al 2017 found elevated South Balkan/Greek-like admixture in Trapani, so that explains why their next closest match is "Central Greece" which is highly scored by Peloponnesians, Cyclades, and North Aegean islanders.

So its the other way around, East Sicily is more MENA-shifted and West Sicily is more European?

[Rgvgjhvv]

I think the overwhelmingly majority simply look Greek and Italian. Cant imagine Nordics or pseudo Levantine looking individuals make up more than 10% of the island. And that's probably pushing it too.

Yes

[Sikeliot]

So its the other way around, East Sicily is more MENA-shifted and West Sicily is more European?

No.

Southeast Sicily (Ragusa, Syracuse) and Trapani, which are on opposite corners of the island one east and one west, have more Greek, Italic, and in the case of Trapani, additional Norman input which shifts them north. Trapani does have a stronger Levant input than the southeast though, but the Norman offsets it.

Sicily's northeast and center-west (Palermo, Agrigento, Messina, Caltanissetta, Enna, and Catania) have a much stronger MENA shift.

[Sikeliot]

Yes

Sicilians are close to Aegean islanders. Are you saying Aegean islanders also have very rare Levantine types only? I think both them and Sicily have them in noticeable amount.

[Leto]

The darker ones wont be viewed as white by most people because skin tone is a major factor here.
Well, the thing is that genetically Armenians have very little Euro HG DNA, less than many Central Asians and Turks, not to mention North Caucasians. I'd say one of the lowest levels among the West Eurasians.

[FinalFlash]

Come on, no one regards Usama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as white. Even many Arabs in the US didn't want to be included into the white category, I guess because it's non-whites nowadays who get more gibs. Kim Kardashian doesn't look white to most Americans and she's only half.

Kim Kardashian is a mutt who is a copy-paste of her mother. Compare Kim to her mother and her paternal Armenian grandmother.

https://i.ibb.co/2SQx0Vt/Screenshot-20181127-144741-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://ibb.co/VxZR0nS)

You can clearly see that she took after her mother who is predominantly European with some Cherokee ancestry. As a matter of fact, Kim doesnt look like her father either. So why do you people use a mongrel like Kim as some benchmark for the Armenian look?

https://i.ibb.co/VYDcGjH/Screenshot-20181127-145010-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://ibb.co/3mW9brf)

Two young women with Kim in Armenia ^

[Rgvgjhvv]

Sicilians are close to Aegean islanders. Are you saying Aegean islanders also have very rare Levantine types only? I think both them and Sicily have them in noticeable amount.

Yes I am actually. We rarely look Levantine. We look Southern European vast majority

[FinalFlash]

Well, the thing is that genetically Armenians have very little Euro HG DNA, less than many Central Asians and Turks, not to mention North Caucasians. I'd say one of the lowest levels among the West Eurasians.

10% Steppe on Eurogenes K15 with additional West Med. Around 20% total. We actually have one of the highest European components next to Georgians and some Turks. Most west Asians have ridiculously high Red Sea and African admix which we have none of for the latter at least.

But I guess it really depends on which calculators you use.

[Rgvgjhvv]

10% Steppe on Eurogenes K15 with additional West Med. Around 20% total. We actually have one of the highest European components next to Georgians and some Turks. Most west Asians have ridiculously high Red Sea and African admix which we have none of for the latter at least.

But I guess it really depends on which calculators you use.

I've never considered Armenians 'non-white' and as another Orthodox nation, you guys seem culturally close to us and other Europeans, more so than many nations around you guys

[Leto]

So why do you people use a mongrel like Kim as some benchmark for the Armenian look?

Haha, I'm glad to hear it from an Armenian. Of course she is not Armenian, only partially by blood and that's all. She is mixed, born in the US, both parents born there as well, speaks no Armenian, has never lived there and is married to a black man (Kanye). She is a typical rootless cosmopolitan glamourous person.

[Mingle]

No.

Southeast Sicily (Ragusa, Syracuse) and Trapani, which are on opposite corners of the island one east and one west, have more Greek, Italic, and in the case of Trapani, additional Norman input which shifts them north. Trapani does have a stronger Levant input than the southeast though, but the Norman offsets it.

Sicily's northeast and center-west (Palermo, Agrigento, Messina, Caltanissetta, Enna, and Catania) have a much stronger MENA shift.

Any idea where northeast Sicily's MENA-shift comes from?

[Leto]

10% Steppe on Eurogenes K15 with additional West Med. Around 20% total. We actually have one of the highest European components next to Georgians and some Turks. Most west Asians have ridiculously high Red Sea and African admix which we have none of for the latter at least.

But I guess it really depends on which calculators you use.
The ones I've seen scored very little Baltic and N. Atlantic or North European on GEDmatch. Only 5-7% or so.

[Sikeliot]

Yes I am actually. We rarely look Levantine. We look Southern European vast majority

I disagree. But you may have your opinion and I have mine.

How do your Eurogenes K15 results compare to this person's? I feel like I remember them being kind of close to yours. Central Greek being very close for both of you.

This is what Sarno et al says about Trapani. When she says 'Eastern Europe' we should understand this as meaning, Trapanese and Apulians have more recent Balkan input, either Albanian or Greek which manifests in a higher Eastern European element.


"The f3/ALDER combined approach also shows significant admixture events possibly predating the 3.0 kya (thus plausibly occurred beyond the temporal detection threshold allowed by ALDER, i.e. 100 generations39). In most cases, these events depict populations from the ‘continuum’, and particularly the two SSI-clusters (CE-Sicily and AW-Sicily), as a mixture of Sardinian and Caucasus or Near Eastern related groups (Fig. 5, Supplementary Table S7). In addition, populations from the Apulia/West-Sicily seem to have experienced further mixtures involving Sardinia and Eastern-Europe. As for the Balkans, Sardinia and Caucasus related admixtures were observed for North-Central Balkans, whereas events involving Near Eastern or Caucasian and a Balkan-related sources characterize Southern Balkans and Calabria/Central-East Sicily (Fig. 5, Supplementary Table S7)."


Any idea where northeast Sicily's MENA-shift comes from?

Gene flow from Palermo most likely, which would have dispersed some of the MENA input from Palermo to Messina/Catania, as well as a complete lack of Norman input in Messina/Catania to offset it.

[FinalFlash]

Yes I am actually. We rarely look Levantine. We look Southern European vast majority

I might be wrong but I think the "exotic" Greeks more resemble Turks and Armenians as opposed to Levantines.

[Rgvgjhvv]

...

I'll check when I hop on a computer. I don't remember at the moment. I think I was closer to East Sicilian than West, but I will confirm

[Sikeliot]

I'll check when I hop on a computer. I don't remember at the moment. I think I was closer to East Sicilian than West, but I will confirm

Can you post the whole top 20? I want to see where the differences are.

[FinalFlash]

The ones I've seen scored very little Baltic and N. Atlantic or North European on GEDmatch. Only 5-7% or so.

Our combine Baltic, Atlantic, North Sea and East Euro comes out to 10%. West Med at 9%. So technically 19% European. That's a non-negligible part of our DNA. You also have to consider the genetic variations in Armenians too. Western Armenian descendants will likely have a higher East Med and West Med component than eastern Armenians. Eastern Armenians will likely have more Caucasus and possibly more Steppe admixture than the former. It's strange how a small island like Sicily has at least 3 references yet Armenians only have one which could be any type of Armenian, really. At least on Eurogenes.

[FinalFlash]

Haha, I'm glad to hear it from an Armenian. Of course she is not Armenian, only partially by blood and that's all. She is mixed, born in the US, both parents born there as well, speaks no Armenian, has never lived there and is married to a black man (Kanye). She is a typical rootless cosmopolitan glamourous person.

She really is. And many Armenians also agree with my sentiments as well. Shes a pornik agarka suka dolbayobka blyat.

[Rgvgjhvv]

I might be wrong but I think the "exotic" Greeks more resemble Turks and Armenians as opposed to Levantines.

I am not sure about Armenians enough to comment. But many Turks and Greek resemble each other. The problem is many western Turks have turanid traits which clearly separate us. But those who don't are harder to tell apart sometimes. Not all Greeks though

[Rgvgjhvv]

Can you post the whole top 20? I want to see where the differences are.

Ok

[Leto]

She really is. And many Armenians also agree with my sentiments as well. Shes a pornik agarka suka dolbayobka blyat.
Lol, why are you using those bad Russian words? Do you speak Russian?

[FinalFlash]

Lol, why are you using those bad Russian words? Do you speak Russian?

Niet. But Russian curse words are amazing. They are universal words :D

[Sikeliot]

Ok


Heres another 2 people from the same town (Alcamo, Trapani). See Central Greek high up again. Remember where the name Trapani comes from, from Greek (it was originally called "Drepane" or something close to it).

Both results get Abruzzo and Central Greece at the top, before any Sicilians. And are better modeled as Iberian + Assyrian.



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.02
2 West_Asian 16.14
3 West_Med 15.59
4 North_Sea 13.89
5 Atlantic 13.22
6 Baltic 5.9
7 Red_Sea 5.21
8 Eastern_Euro 2.7
9 Northeast_African 1.98
10 Oceanian 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 4.53
2 Central_Greek 4.69
3 East_Sicilian 4.78
4 Ashkenazi 6.34
5 South_Italian 7.15
6 Greek_Thessaly 7.62
7 West_Sicilian 7.89
8 Greek 9.11
9 Tuscan 9.65
10 Italian_Jewish 10.83
11 Sephardic_Jewish 12.05
12 Algerian_Jewish 13.2
13 Bulgarian 14.3
14 Romanian 15.7
15 North_Italian 15.7
16 Tunisian_Jewish 15.83
17 Libyan_Jewish 16.4
18 Cyprian 17.85
19 Turkish 18.43
20 Serbian 18.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.5% Spanish_Galicia + 48.5% Assyrian @ 3.23
2 91.5% East_Sicilian + 8.5% West_Norwegian @ 3.24
3 88.8% East_Sicilian + 11.2% West_German @ 3.32
4 91.3% East_Sicilian + 8.7% Orcadian @ 3.32
5 91.4% East_Sicilian + 8.6% Norwegian @ 3.34
6 91.4% East_Sicilian + 8.6% Swedish @ 3.35
7 91.1% East_Sicilian + 8.9% North_Dutch @ 3.38
8 91.8% Central_Greek + 8.2% Orcadian @ 3.42
9 91.2% East_Sicilian + 8.8% Danish @ 3.42
10 52% Portuguese + 48% Assyrian @ 3.43
11 92.2% Central_Greek + 7.8% West_Norwegian @ 3.44
12 91.6% East_Sicilian + 8.4% West_Scottish @ 3.47
13 89.7% Central_Greek + 10.3% West_German @ 3.48
14 90.7% East_Sicilian + 9.3% North_German @ 3.48
15 91.8% East_Sicilian + 8.2% North_Swedish @ 3.51
16 91.5% East_Sicilian + 8.5% Irish @ 3.51
17 91.2% East_Sicilian + 8.8% Southeast_English @ 3.52
18 91.8% Central_Greek + 8.2% North_Dutch @ 3.53
19 92.1% Central_Greek + 7.9% Norwegian @ 3.54
20 91.1% East_Sicilian + 8.9% Southwest_English @ 3.56





# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.55
2 West_Med 19.71
3 North_Sea 15.51
4 West_Asian 15.27
5 Atlantic 11.75
6 Red_Sea 4.97
7 Eastern_Euro 3.89
8 Baltic 3.02
9 Sub-Saharan 1.8
10 Northeast_African 0.54

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Abruzzo 7.34
2 Central_Greek 7.44
3 East_Sicilian 7.55
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.85
5 Ashkenazi 8.96
6 South_Italian 9.21
7 West_Sicilian 9.33
8 Tuscan 9.56
9 Greek 11.27
10 Italian_Jewish 12.27
11 Sephardic_Jewish 14.03
12 Algerian_Jewish 14.16
13 North_Italian 14.83
14 Bulgarian 16.2
15 Romanian 17.29
16 Libyan_Jewish 17.6
17 Tunisian_Jewish 18.02
18 Cyprian 19.6
19 Serbian 19.69
20 Turkish 21.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.7% Spanish_Galicia + 44.3% Assyrian @ 5.76
2 57.5% Spanish_Galicia + 42.5% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.99
3 56.1% Spanish_Galicia + 43.9% Armenian @ 6.09
4 83% Central_Greek + 17% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.14
5 78.2% Tuscan + 21.8% Armenian @ 6.16
6 86.3% East_Sicilian + 13.7% West_German @ 6.26
7 56.7% Spanish_Galicia + 43.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 6.28
8 56.1% Portuguese + 43.9% Assyrian @ 6.28
9 79.8% South_Italian + 20.2% West_German @ 6.3
10 87.1% Central_Greek + 12.9% West_German @ 6.31
11 83.7% Central_Greek + 16.3% Portuguese @ 6.32
12 85.9% Central_Greek + 14.1% French @ 6.34
13 56% Cyprian + 44% French @ 6.35
14 52.4% Cyprian + 47.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.35
15 90.2% East_Sicilian + 9.8% West_Norwegian @ 6.39
16 90.3% Central_Greek + 9.7% Orcadian @ 6.4
17 89.8% East_Sicilian + 10.2% Orcadian @ 6.4
18 66.2% North_Italian + 33.8% Armenian @ 6.42
19 85.6% East_Sicilian + 14.4% French @ 6.42
20 90.9% Central_Greek + 9.1% West_Norwegian @ 6.45

[Rgvgjhvv]

Can you post the whole top 20? I want to see where the differences are.

My K15:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.01
2 Greek 5.45
3 South_Italian 5.83
4 East_Sicilian 5.9
5 Italian_Abruzzo 6.59
6 Greek_Thessaly 7.85
7 Ashkenazi 7.96
8 West_Sicilian 7.97
9 Tuscan 11.08
10 Italian_Jewish 11.28
11 Sephardic_Jewish 11.92
12 Algerian_Jewish 12.33
13 Bulgarian 13.63
14 Tunisian_Jewish 15.85
15 Romanian 16.24
16 Cyprian 16.32
17 North_Italian 16.93
18 Libyan_Jewish 17.76
19 Turkish 18.46
20 Lebanese_Muslim 19.91

1 52.1% Greek + 47.9% South_Italian @ 2.68
2 63.5% Central_Greek + 36.5% Greek @ 3.06
3 78% Greek + 22% Cyprian @ 3.07
4 73.4% South_Italian + 26.6% Bulgarian @ 3.33
5 84.7% Greek + 15.3% Assyrian @ 3.36
6 85.3% Greek + 14.7% Armenian @ 3.38
7 85.9% Greek + 14.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.4
8 88.5% South_Italian + 11.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.53
9 85.5% Greek + 14.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.54
10 82.6% Greek + 17.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.56
11 86.1% Greek + 13.9% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.57
12 88.8% South_Italian + 11.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.58
13 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Erzya @ 3.63
14 86.1% Greek + 13.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.63
15 86% Greek + 14% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.63
16 84.5% South_Italian + 15.5% Moldavian @ 3.64
17 88.7% South_Italian + 11.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.65
18 90.2% South_Italian + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 3.69
19 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Estonian_Polish @ 3.69
20 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Belorussian @

[Sikeliot]

My K15:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.01
2 Greek 5.45
3 South_Italian 5.83
4 East_Sicilian 5.9
5 Italian_Abruzzo 6.59
6 Greek_Thessaly 7.85
7 Ashkenazi 7.96
8 West_Sicilian 7.97
9 Tuscan 11.08
10 Italian_Jewish 11.28
11 Sephardic_Jewish 11.92
12 Algerian_Jewish 12.33
13 Bulgarian 13.63
14 Tunisian_Jewish 15.85
15 Romanian 16.24
16 Cyprian 16.32
17 North_Italian 16.93
18 Libyan_Jewish 17.76
19 Turkish 18.46
20 Lebanese_Muslim 19.91

1 52.1% Greek + 47.9% South_Italian @ 2.68
2 63.5% Central_Greek + 36.5% Greek @ 3.06
3 78% Greek + 22% Cyprian @ 3.07
4 73.4% South_Italian + 26.6% Bulgarian @ 3.33
5 84.7% Greek + 15.3% Assyrian @ 3.36
6 85.3% Greek + 14.7% Armenian @ 3.38
7 85.9% Greek + 14.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.4
8 88.5% South_Italian + 11.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.53
9 85.5% Greek + 14.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.54
10 82.6% Greek + 17.4% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.56
11 86.1% Greek + 13.9% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.57
12 88.8% South_Italian + 11.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.58
13 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Erzya @ 3.63
14 86.1% Greek + 13.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.63
15 86% Greek + 14% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.63
16 84.5% South_Italian + 15.5% Moldavian @ 3.64
17 88.7% South_Italian + 11.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.65
18 90.2% South_Italian + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 3.69
19 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Estonian_Polish @ 3.69
20 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Belorussian @


You're very close to the Chios/Samos results posted recently which seem to be able to be modeled as 88-90% Sicilian, 10-12% NE European or something to that effect. A bit different to the Trapani results but not THAT far off. You're closer to them than to a Palermitan or Messinese.

[Rgvgjhvv]

You're very close to the Chios/Samos results posted recently which seem to be able to be modeled as 88-90% Sicilian, 10-12% NE European or something to that effect. A bit different to the Trapani results but not THAT far off. You're closer to them than to a Palermitan or Messinese.

My results get pretty exotic when paired with Greek. Not sure why though

[Sikeliot]

My results get pretty exotic when paired with Greek. Not sure why though

You look halfway between "Greek" (a mainland sample) and "South Italian" (Calabria).

[Sikeliot]

What shocks me is the abrupt change from the Trapani side of the border to the Palermo one.

The following people all have roots in towns on the Palermo side of the border but touching the border (Balestrate, Terrasini, Cinisi, Partinico, Monreale, etc). They are considerably more exotic than the people immediately on the Trapani side of the border.



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.62
2 West_Med 19.14
3 Atlantic 18.3
4 West_Asian 14.82
5 Red_Sea 6.16
6 Baltic 4.54
7 North_Sea 2.97
8 Eastern_Euro 1.91
9 Sub-Saharan 1.37
10 South_Asian 1.26
11 Southeast_Asian 0.63
12 Northeast_African 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 6.5
2 West_Sicilian 7.42
3 Sephardic_Jewish 7.99
4 East_Sicilian 8
5 Central_Greek 8.58
6 Algerian_Jewish 8.89
7 Italian_Abruzzo 8.93
8 Italian_Jewish 9.28
9 Ashkenazi 10.77
10 Greek 11.29
11 Tunisian_Jewish 12.18
12 Tuscan 12.85
13 Greek_Thessaly 14.52
14 Cyprian 14.84
15 Libyan_Jewish 16.47
16 Lebanese_Muslim 18.69
17 North_Italian 18.72
18 Bulgarian 19.47
19 Turkish 19.48
20 Syrian 19.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% French_Basque @ 3.54
2 62.4% Cyprian + 37.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.5
3 66.4% Cyprian + 33.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.76
4 67.7% Cyprian + 32.3% Southwest_French @ 4.85
5 65% Cyprian + 35% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.9
6 64.3% Cyprian + 35.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.91
7 67.4% Cyprian + 32.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.37
8 86.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.5% French_Basque @ 5.63
9 61.7% Lebanese_Christian + 38.3% French_Basque @ 5.73
10 74.6% West_Sicilian + 25.4% Cyprian @ 5.77
11 80.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 19.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.8
12 84.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 15.7% Southwest_French @ 5.87
13 64.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 35.8% Greek @ 5.94
14 54.6% West_Sicilian + 45.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 5.94
15 93.5% South_Italian + 6.5% French_Basque @ 5.98
16 64.3% Cyprian + 35.7% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.99
17 82.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 17.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 5.99
18 65.6% Cyprian + 34.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6
19 67.2% Lebanese_Muslim + 32.8% French_Basque @ 6
20 64.2% South_Italian + 35.8% West_Sicilian @ 6.04




# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.7
2 West_Med 20.37
3 Atlantic 15.06
4 West_Asian 12.25
5 North_Sea 7.77
6 Red_Sea 5.91
7 Baltic 4.87
8 Northeast_African 1.79
9 Eastern_Euro 1.53
10 Sub-Saharan 0.76

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.86
2 East_Sicilian 4.98
3 West_Sicilian 5.27
4 Italian_Jewish 5.9
5 Central_Greek 6.36
6 Algerian_Jewish 6.48
7 Sephardic_Jewish 7.18
8 Italian_Abruzzo 7.57
9 Ashkenazi 8.27
10 Greek 10.35
11 Tuscan 10.86
12 Tunisian_Jewish 11.08
13 Greek_Thessaly 11.65
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.12
15 Cyprian 14.59
16 North_Italian 17.12
17 Bulgarian 18.58
18 Lebanese_Muslim 18.84
19 Syrian 19.52
20 Samaritan 20.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.9% Algerian_Jewish + 36.1% Tuscan @ 2.53
2 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Moroccan @ 2.63
3 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.63
4 91.5% South_Italian + 8.5% Sardinian @ 2.72
5 88.6% South_Italian + 11.4% Tunisian @ 2.79
6 61.9% Cyprian + 38.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.8
7 89.2% South_Italian + 10.8% Algerian @ 2.81
8 66.3% Cyprian + 33.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.88
9 74.4% Algerian_Jewish + 25.6% North_Italian @ 2.91
10 64.3% South_Italian + 35.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.02
11 57.1% West_Sicilian + 42.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.05
12 54.8% Algerian_Jewish + 45.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.1
13 63.9% Cyprian + 36.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.1
14 71.4% South_Italian + 28.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.11
15 62.6% Cyprian + 37.4% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.16
16 67.2% Cyprian + 32.8% Southwest_French @ 3.16
17 63.7% Cyprian + 36.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.17
18 65.9% Cyprian + 34.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.18
19 54.1% Cyprian + 45.9% North_Italian @ 3.19
20 62.7% Cyprian + 37.3% Portuguese @ 3.19



# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.36
2 West_Med 20.93
3 Atlantic 13.94
4 West_Asian 13.35
5 North_Sea 7.61
6 Red_Sea 5.08
7 Baltic 5.02
8 Northeast_African 1.03
9 Southeast_Asian 0.58
10 Oceanian 0.54
11 South_Asian 0.32
12 Amerindian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 3.52
2 Italian_Jewish 5.69
3 East_Sicilian 6.12
4 Algerian_Jewish 6.61
5 Central_Greek 6.86
6 Sephardic_Jewish 7.32
7 West_Sicilian 7.41
8 Italian_Abruzzo 8.84
9 Ashkenazi 9.45
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.9
11 Greek 11.57
12 Tuscan 12.56
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.6
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.83
15 Cyprian 13.25
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.96
17 North_Italian 18.79
18 Syrian 18.95
19 Samaritan 19.8
20 Bulgarian 19.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93% South_Italian + 7% Sardinian @ 2.69
2 74.7% South_Italian + 25.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.89
3 73.6% South_Italian + 26.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.07
4 95.5% South_Italian + 4.5% Moroccan @ 3.3
5 91.2% South_Italian + 8.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.31
6 95.8% South_Italian + 4.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.34
7 95.4% South_Italian + 4.6% Tunisian @ 3.35
8 90.8% South_Italian + 9.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.36
9 95.7% South_Italian + 4.3% Algerian @ 3.36
10 89.3% South_Italian + 10.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.43
11 97.4% South_Italian + 2.6% Samaritan @ 3.48
12 98.6% South_Italian + 1.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.48
13 98.1% South_Italian + 1.9% Egyptian @ 3.48
14 97.6% South_Italian + 2.4% Cyprian @ 3.5
15 99.7% South_Italian + 0.3% NAN_Melanesian @ 3.51
16 99.8% South_Italian + 0.2% Papuan @ 3.51
17 99.8% South_Italian + 0.2% Dai @ 3.51
18 97.3% South_Italian + 2.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.51
19 99.8% South_Italian + 0.2% Vietnamese @ 3.51
20 99.2% South_Italian + 0.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.51




# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.56
2 West_Asian 18.63
3 Atlantic 15.89
4 West_Med 15.53
5 North_Sea 9.29
6 Baltic 5.96
7 Red_Sea 5.67
8 Northeast_African 1.71
9 Amerindian 0.42
10 Southeast_Asian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 5.16
2 Central_Greek 5.32
3 Italian_Abruzzo 5.33
4 South_Italian 5.33
5 West_Sicilian 8.12
6 Ashkenazi 8.36
7 Sephardic_Jewish 9.94
8 Italian_Jewish 10.07
9 Greek 10.28
10 Greek_Thessaly 11.3
11 Tuscan 11.57
12 Algerian_Jewish 11.96
13 Tunisian_Jewish 13.79
14 Cyprian 15.63
15 Libyan_Jewish 16.41
16 Turkish 16.43
17 Bulgarian 16.75
18 Lebanese_Muslim 17.73
19 North_Italian 17.84
20 Romanian 18.72

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.4% West_Sicilian + 17.6% Georgian @ 3.58
2 83.9% West_Sicilian + 16.1% Abhkasian @ 3.64
3 90% South_Italian + 10% North_Ossetian @ 3.66
4 89.8% South_Italian + 10.2% Chechen @ 3.67
5 67.5% Tuscan + 32.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.7
6 85.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.4% Armenian @ 3.7
7 85.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.71
8 52.5% Assyrian + 47.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.77
9 89.5% South_Italian + 10.5% Kabardin @ 3.78
10 90% South_Italian + 10% Ossetian @ 3.78
11 85.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 14.6% Assyrian @ 3.8
12 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Adygei @ 3.81
13 89.7% South_Italian + 10.3% Balkar @ 3.83
14 91.7% East_Sicilian + 8.3% Abhkasian @ 3.86
15 90.9% East_Sicilian + 9.1% Georgian @ 3.87
16 66.6% Tuscan + 33.4% Assyrian @ 3.9
17 53.9% Assyrian + 46.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.92
18 82.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 17.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.94
19 91.3% East_Sicilian + 8.7% North_Ossetian @ 3.94
20 88.5% South_Italian + 11.5% Kumyk @ 3.95




# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.34
2 West_Med 15.92
3 West_Asian 14.94
4 Atlantic 12.46
5 North_Sea 11.37
6 Red_Sea 6.03
7 Eastern_Euro 3.29
8 Baltic 2.52
9 Northeast_African 0.88
10 Oceanian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 5.38
2 South_Italian 5.55
3 East_Sicilian 6.22
4 Central_Greek 6.54
5 Sephardic_Jewish 6.91
6 Ashkenazi 7.33
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.89
8 Algerian_Jewish 8.08
9 West_Sicilian 8.41
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.51
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.41
12 Cyprian 12.26
13 Greek_Thessaly 12.52
14 Greek 12.52
15 Tuscan 13.69
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.24
17 Syrian 16.39
18 Turkish 17.78
19 Samaritan 18.28
20 Jordanian 19.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.2% Cyprian + 23.8% Southwest_English @ 2.92
2 59.7% Tuscan + 40.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.95
3 77.7% Cyprian + 22.3% Orcadian @ 2.97
4 71.8% Cyprian + 28.2% French @ 3.01
5 76.5% Cyprian + 23.5% Southeast_English @ 3.07
6 50.1% Lebanese_Druze + 49.9% North_Italian @ 3.13
7 73.6% Cyprian + 26.4% West_German @ 3.23
8 77.6% Cyprian + 22.4% West_Scottish @ 3.27
9 89.5% Italian_Jewish + 10.5% Tabassaran @ 3.28
10 50.9% Lebanese_Christian + 49.1% North_Italian @ 3.39
11 59.6% Lebanese_Christian + 40.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.4
12 77.4% Cyprian + 22.6% Irish @ 3.42
13 73.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 26.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.43
14 74% Cyprian + 26% South_Dutch @ 3.45
15 59% Tuscan + 41% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.47
16 89.7% Italian_Jewish + 10.3% Lezgin @ 3.52
17 73% Italian_Abruzzo + 27% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.57
18 78.5% Cyprian + 21.5% West_Norwegian @ 3.58
19 77.3% Cyprian + 22.7% North_Dutch @ 3.58
20 77.2% Cyprian + 22.8% Danish @ 3.61

[Rgvgjhvv]

It's weird how some Sicilians even get Turkish in their Top 20

[Sikeliot]

It's weird how some Sicilians even get Turkish in their Top 20

I don't see why. They share ancient ancestry -- Anatolian, Greek, and probably Caucasus too.

Anyway I think you see the difference in the results... the Palermitans are more MENA than the Trapanese by some amount. Though Trapanese have more than Ragusa/Syracuse on average.

[Rgvgjhvv]

I don't see why. They share ancient ancestry -- Anatolian, Greek, and probably Caucasus too.


True

[Sikeliot]

True

There is an interesting result on Myheritage I just found, the person's ancestry spans both sides of the Palermo/Trapani border. They have about 15-20% less European than average based on what I see (where 70-75% European is average).

She gets:

31.5% Greek
13.9% Sardinian
11.2% Iberian

24.2% West Asian
11.5% Middle Eastern
7.7% North African

[Rgvgjhvv]

There is an interesting result on Myheritage I just found, the person's ancestry spans both sides of the Palermo/Trapani border. They have about 15-20% less European than average based on what I see (where 70-75% European is average).

She gets:

31.5% Greek
13.9% Sardinian
11.2% Iberian

24.2% West Asian
11.5% Middle Eastern
7.7% North African

So weird. Not sure how to analyze those results

[Sikeliot]

So weird. Not sure how to analyze those results


Idk but I found one from the Trapani side of the border scoring 78% Greek and another with 60% Greek, so it is the Palermitan side elevating the MENA stuff. Trapani seems to be full of Greek and Norman input.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Idk but I found one from the Trapani side of the border scoring 78% Greek and another with 60% Greek, so it is the Palermitan side elevating the MENA stuff. Trapani seems to be full of Greek and Norman input.

So what, they have ancient west Asian, middle eastern and North African dna that would give them that much % in each? Seems unlikely. What about ancestry dna and 23andme results?

[Sikeliot]

So what, they have ancient west Asian, middle eastern and North African dna that would give them that much % in each? Seems unlikely. What about ancestry dna and 23andme results?

I don't get what your confusion is. There is a spectrum. Some of the people in Sicily and on some Aegean islands have a great amount of excess Near Eastern input, others can better be modeled with Italian and/or Greek ancestry. What is the surprise and why do you put up so much resistance to this idea?

[Rgvgjhvv]

I don't get what your confusion is. There is a spectrum. Some of the people in Sicily and on some Aegean islands have a great amount of excess Near Eastern input, others can better be modeled with Italian and/or Greek ancestry. What is the surprise and why do you put up so much resistance to this idea?

What do you mean? I literally don't understand, I'm not putting up any resistance I just have no idea why those numbers would come up.

I get a considerable amount of West Asian too and I don't know why. More than almost all Greeks I've seen on YouTube. Which is why I'm wondering if this is just a MyHeritage formula or are they similar on 23andMe and AncestryDNA as well.

[Sikeliot]

What do you mean? I literally don't understand, I'm not putting up any resistance I just have no idea why those numbers would come up.

I get a considerable amount of West Asian too and I don't know why. More than almost all Greeks I've seen on YouTube. Which is why I'm wondering if this is just a MyHeritage formula or are they similar on 23andMe and AncestryDNA as well.

How much do you score?

[Rgvgjhvv]

How much do you score?

Much less than that Sicilian one, but I score 12% West Asian. And 0% Balkan so I've never understood my results fully. I'm thinking of doing an AncestryDNA test because MyHeritage seems peculiar for a lot of people

[Sikeliot]

Much less than that Sicilian one, but I score 12% West Asian. And 0% Balkan so I've never understood my results fully. I'm thinking of doing an AncestryDNA test because MyHeritage seems peculiar for a lot of people

Islanders do not usually score Balkan. Though I think you score less West Asian than someone who is a more 'exotic' islander like a Cretan.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Islanders do not usually score Balkan. Though I think you score less West Asian than someone who is a more 'exotic' islander like a Cretan.

Maybe but I haven't seen any, unfortunately

[Coolguy1]

[1] "distance%=1.9221 / distance=0.019221"

Trapani5

Minoan_Lasithi (N=5) 70.30
I0440_Poltavka 24.05
Algerian (N=2) 5.65
Catacomb_Culture_F999946 0.00


There is nothing exotic about this result. In fact, its showing remarkable continuance with the Minoan samples, with 25% steppe, which is the standard for Greece and Sicily. Very little north African which may not even be real, but picked up by the algorithm to produce a slightly better fit.

[Sikeliot]

[1] "distance%=1.9221 / distance=0.019221"

Trapani5

Minoan_Lasithi (N=5) 70.30
I0440_Poltavka 24.05
Algerian (N=2) 5.65
Catacomb_Culture_F999946 0.00


There is nothing exotic about this result. In fact, its showing remarkable continuance with the Minoan samples, with 25% steppe, which is the standard for Greece and Sicily. Very little north African which may not even be real, but picked up by the algorithm to produce a slightly better fit.

I've seen many Trapanese be able to be modeled as 88-10% "Central Greece" and the rest North African. Does this likely suggest an increased Greek input into the region?

Do you see evidence of Norman input in this sample, or is the northern shift more likely due to Greek input?

[Coolguy1]

I've seen many Trapanese be able to be modeled as 88-10% "Central Greece" and the rest North African. Does this likely suggest an increased Greek input into the region?

Do you see evidence of Norman input in this sample, or is the northern shift more likely due to Greek input?

What I can say certainly is that both mainland Greeks and islanders/Sicilians always require 20-25% yamnaya like ancestry. I cannot say whether this steppe input in Sicilians is from Greeks or proto-Italics, most likely both but its impossibly to quantify the difference. Just like its impossible to quantify the difference between pre-Greek Sicanian ancestry and actual Minoan ancestry. I dont think the Normans had any significant autosomal impact on Siclians at all. Maybe you can find their influence only by y-dna.

[Sikeliot]

What I can say certainly is that both mainland Greeks and islanders/Sicilians always require 20-25% yamnaya like ancestry. I cannot say whether this steppe input in Sicilians is from Greeks or proto-Italics, most likely both but its impossibly to quantify the difference. Just like its impossible to quantify the difference between pre-Greek Sicanian ancestry and actual Minoan ancestry. I dont think the Normans had any significant autosomal impact on Siclians at all. Maybe you can find their influence only by y-dna.

My guess is Sicanians were very similar to Minoans, based on where the Bell Beaker Sicilian plots. Sicanians were a great people, they built Malta's Megalithic Temples.

I sent you 3 Palermo results in the other thread. Wondering what happens with those. I think that's where you will find more "exotic" stuff.

[wvwvw]

How much do you score?

This moron has posted his results before, he's Scholarios Chiotis.

[Rgvgjhvv]

This moron has posted his results before, he's Scholarios Chiotis.

You're a dirty cunt mouth

[wvwvw]

He has already begun chimping out as usual. For every thumb down you give him this vindicative revengeful clown gives you ten.


You're a dirty cunt mouth

Your whole being is the definition of "cunt". Tουρκόγυφτε που έχεις και θρασσος να μιλάς.

[Rgvgjhvv]

He has already begun chimping out as usual. For every thumb down you give him this vindicative revengeful clown gives you ten.



Your whole being is the definition of "cunt". Tουρκόγυφτε που έχεις και θρασσος να μιλάς.

Nobody believes you, shut up already. I don't know wtf I ever did to you. Mentalist.

Ti thes re? Posa kila malakas eisai? Gamisou

[Arsen_]

Armenians are white only on paper

Armenians do not care about being white or non-white because nowadays in modern world being white gives no any bonuses. Actually most of Armenians even do not know about that concept. For Armenians world consist of Armenians and non-Armenians. That's it. Just some marginalised and confused Armenians who live in West are interested in that bullshit.

But you seem yourself to very care about who is white and who is not. Then зная русских как облупленных, должен тебя расстроить, Russians are not white even on paper, have never been and will never be.

[Leto]

But you seem yourself to very care about who is white and who is not. Then зная русских как облупленных, должен тебя расстроить, Russians are not white even on paper, have never been and will never be.
Lol. Okay, and who do you think we are? Sure we're not Western European but we're not dark-skinned either. Have you seen me? By the way, don't try to talk shit about us, ara, after all you live in our country, we don't.

[Arsen_]

Lol. Okay, and who do you think we are? Sure we're not Western European but we're not dark-skinned either. Have you seen me? By the way, don't try to talk shit about us, ara, after all you live in our country, we don't.

In younger years of my life for some period I had to watch on life inside of jail (колония для несовершеннолетних) and you know what, the direst mistake one can make in jail is a wrong self-positioning. Anybody in jail is free to draw any tattoo on himself including tattoos of most superior status but God forbid if you are not really that superior - it would be disastrous for you. The same in life of peoples and countries.

Being white has nothing to do with genetics, skin color, Euro origin, haplogroups and other like bullshit.

"White man" is sertain trademark which was coined by sertain peoples many hundred years ago and actually to be "white man" means to be superior. And those people which coined that trademark happened to be relatively light-skinned people who were slave traders and slave owners. Russians have zero contibution to coining that trademark.

One quote from historian Pilayev about life in Tsarist Russia:

"...русских людей продавали публично на базарах и ярмарках... Одним из главных центров этой торговли была Урюпинская ярмарка, на которой парней и девушек покупали преимущественно армяне".

"...Russian people were sold in public in bazars and fairs... One of major center of that trade was Fair of Urypinsk... Buyers were mainly Armenians."


The main characteristic of white man is respect to own kind. Russia utterly lack it and treated own kind like a shit. By the way not only Russia, many other eastern and nothern counties in Europe are very much alike. There is a Russian word шпицрутен. It's a Swedish "invention" which came to Russia via Germany. Just make a research about that. The same was in Russian Army which was built by Russian tsars on the patterns of the Prussian Army which in terms of humilition of own soldiers perhaps could compete even with Army of Mongols. By the way there is real interesting story about one Russian tsar and French soldier which happened in Paris. Very good illustration.

All that disrespect to own kind came from slavish nature which is the main characteristic of non-white people. And that type of people always create authoritarian totalitarian leaderist societies and easily become genosidal murderers and can willingly destroy even own people. For example army of black slaves a couple of centuries ago genosided almost 90% of Paraguay's population. So you can't be both - you are either good slave-owner or good slave.

So all in all, if you that much care about being white then you should understand that white man is a relatively light-skinned smart Christian man, who respect own kind, can be if needed a good slave-owner, never tolerate any kind of authoritarian power over himself.

Now you can answer yourself to your question.

[Leto]

In younger years of my life for some period I had to watch on life inside of jail (колония для несовершеннолетних) and you know what, the direst mistake one can make in jail is a wrong self-positioning. Anybody in jail is free to draw any tattoo on himself including tattoos of most superior status but God forbid if you are not really that superior - it would be disastrous for you. The same in life of peoples and countries.

Being white has nothing to do with genetics, skin color, Euro origin, haplogroups and other like bullshit.

"White man" is sertain trademark which was coined by sertain peoples many hundred years ago and actually to be "white man" means to be superior. And those people which coined that trademark happened to be relatively light-skinned people who were slave traders and slave owners. Russians have zero contibution to coining that trademark.

One quote from historian Pilayev about life in Tsarist Russia:

"...русских людей продавали публично на базарах и ярмарках... Одним из главных центров этой торговли была Урюпинская ярмарка, на которой парней и девушек покупали преимущественно армяне".

"...Russian people were sold in public in bazars and fairs... One of major center of that trade was Fair of Urypinsk... Buyers were mainly Armenians."


The main characteristic of white man is respect to own kind. Russia utterly lack it and treated own kind like a shit. By the way not only Russia, many other eastern and nothern counties in Europe are very much alike. There is a Russian word шпицрутен. It's a Swedish "invention" which came to Russia via Germany. Just make a research about that. The same was in Russian Army which was built by Russian tsars on the patterns of the Prussian Army which in terms of humilition of own soldiers perhaps could compete even with Army of Mongols. By the way there is real interesting story about one Russian tsar and French soldier which happened in Paris. Very good illustration.

All that disrespect to own kind came from slavish nature which is the main characteristic of non-white people. And that type of people always create authoritarian totalitarian leaderist societies and easily become genosidal murderers and can willingly destroy even own people. For example army of black slaves a couple of centuries ago genosided almost 90% of Paraguay's population. So you can't be both - you are either good slave-owner or good slave.

So all in all, if you that much care about being white then you should understand that white man is a relatively light-skinned smart Christian man, who respect own kind, can be if needed a good slave-owner, never tolerate any kind of authoritarian power over himself.

Now you can answer yourself to your question.
Lol, what kind of horseshit is that? :picard1: I tried to be nice to you but seem like I was wrong. You are another Russophobic natsmen. Don't bother talking to me again and spare me your nonsensical views. You don't even know who I am, what my views are and where I've lived. I am here mainly to discuss things I'm currently interested in - that is generics and DNA testing. I'm NOT interested in discussing politics, history and society with people who won't agree with me anyway.

[Arsen_]

You are another Russophobic natsmen..

Надеюсь, читаешь по-русски, я родился в России, у меня куча кровных русских родственников, скорее всего я и сам частью русский, так что русофобом ну никак не могу быть. Весь вопрос в том, что сила России в единстве всех ее народов, а этот дискурс - русские и нацмены - абсолютно гибелен для России.

[Leto]

Edit: I'll answer @Arsen in a PM.

[Luke35]

Much less than that Sicilian one, but I score 12% West Asian. And 0% Balkan so I've never understood my results fully. I'm thinking of doing an AncestryDNA test because MyHeritage seems peculiar for a lot of people

Here's my Wife's MH and AncestryDNA result:

MH
Europe
93.4%
South Europe
91.5%
Greek
91.5%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.9%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.9%
Africa
6.6%
North Africa
6.6%
North African
6.6%

AncestryDNA
Greece & the Balkans
79%
Greece, Turkey & Albania
Italy
10%
Turkey & the Caucasus
8%
Middle East
3%

[Rgvgjhvv]

Here's my Wife's MH and AncestryDNA result:

MH
Europe
93.4%
South Europe
91.5%
Greek
91.5%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.9%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.9%
Africa
6.6%
North Africa
6.6%
North African
6.6%

AncestryDNA
Greece & the Balkans
79%
Greece, Turkey & Albania
Italy
10%
Turkey & the Caucasus
8%
Middle East
3%

That's so interesting she didn't get any West Asian. Maybe it was replaced with North African? I have no idea how these work haha

[Luke35]

That's so interesting she didn't get any West Asian. Maybe it was replaced with North African? I have no idea how these work haha

I think somebody said earlier the algorithm is just trying to find a best fit, I don't know.