Classify Norwegian Sami Girls

[Miraak]

82540

[nittionia]

nordo baltid

[Miraak]

I'm curious. Did the Ancient Indo-European people look anything like these girls?

[Prinses]

Nordid

[Valwar]

Nordid + Baltid. They are atypical for Sami.

[Miraak]

Nordid + Baltid. They are atypical for Sami.

Totally agree. I thought they're from Southern Norway at first. Actually, they're from Kautokeino. https://www.norwegian.com/magazine/features/2013/12/living-with-the-sami

[Bogdan]

Nordo-Baltid.

[Rædwald]

Nordo-Baltid, these girls are Atypical. The average Saami girl looks more like so.

http://i.imgur.com/jlnAbkY.jpg

More shifted towards a Uralid or Volgid even.

[Veslan]

East Baltic

LOL at "Nordo-Baltid" - what will be next? "Subnordid + Alpine", "North Pontid + Pontid"? :rotfl:

[Finnish Swede]

Nordo-Baltid, these girls are Atypical. The average Saami girl looks more like so.

http://i.imgur.com/jlnAbkY.jpg

More shifted towards a Uralid or Volgid even.


Thank God so called average Samis will not look like these....

https://i.ylilauta.org/de/8d7941bf.jpg
https://p3.no/filmpolitiet/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/svidd_neger2-310x413.jpg

[Dandelion]

Thank God so called average Samis will not look like these....

https://i.ylilauta.org/de/8d7941bf.jpg
https://p3.no/filmpolitiet/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/svidd_neger2-310x413.jpg

They even tried on the Sami... Jikes.

As for the girls of the OP. Can't get more blonde than that. Awesome girls. :)

[Ryuk]

I'm curious. Did the Ancient Indo-European people look anything like these girls?

No,Proto Indo European were Brown skinned,Brown eyed and Black haired people.After corded ware expansion,they had fair features,because of mixing with neolithic European.


The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA studies conducted by Haak et al. (2015), Wilde et al. (2014) and Mathieson et al. (2015): they were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European.[26][4] Despite their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.[27]

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture&ved=2ahUKEwi_pqr0yoHfAhXDkCwKHfYBA0kQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0HlHqwO-BtlCz4w_g85PPW&cshid=1543768991678

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://archhades.blogspot.com/2015/10/myth-of-light-pigmented-nordic-looking.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiu-YekzIHfAhVGhSwKHWhjBHg4ChAWMAR6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw1NZjKgmLnamMntHlgfx3Sc

[Ryuk]

For the Saami,in the past, Scandinavians used to see them as inferior beings from the yellow race.After Mena migration, Saamis must be looking like elves to them:D

[Rædwald]

Thank God so called average Samis will not look like these....

https://i.ylilauta.org/de/8d7941bf.jpg
https://p3.no/filmpolitiet/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/svidd_neger2-310x413.jpg

:picard1: I've seen Svidd Neger :lol: not even the Saami can escape the propaganda.

[Blondie]

Beautiful nordids.

[Veslan]

No,Proto Indo European were Brown skinned,Brown eyed and Black haired people.After corded ware expansion,they had fair features,because of mixing with neolithic European.



https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture&ved=2ahUKEwi_pqr0yoHfAhXDkCwKHfYBA0kQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0HlHqwO-BtlCz4w_g85PPW&cshid=1543768991678

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://archhades.blogspot.com/2015/10/myth-of-light-pigmented-nordic-looking.html%3Fm%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiu-YekzIHfAhVGhSwKHWhjBHg4ChAWMAR6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw1NZjKgmLnamMntHlgfx3Sc

Two holes in this dogma:

*Yamna had 25% recent admixture from the Iranian Plateau
*Sintastha culture was NOT admixed with any "Neolithic Europeans", and yet was blond and blue eyed.

[Dandelion]

For the Saami,in the past, Scandinavians used to see them as inferior beings from the yellow race.After Mena migration, Saamis must be looking like elves to them:D

Never quite understood why they got discriminated against as they have. Finns were the most humane to them out of all Nordics, being fellow Uralics of them. Sami always were a tiny group and a harmless one at that.

[Pribislav]

Nordid-Baltid

[Pribislav]

They looks like average Hungarian girls according to Kic_Kocos. :coffee:

[Dandelion]

Kic Kócos is the living proof Hungarians are like Southern Finns. ;)

[Veslan]

I'm curious. Did the Ancient Indo-European people look anything like these girls?

No, Indo-Europeans were predominantly Europoid, and even the mixed types didn't look very "Finnic".

[Blondie]

Kic Kócos is the living proof Hungarians are like Southern Finns. ;)

No, because i have no finnic ancestry :)

[Ryuk]

Two holes in this dogma:

*Yamna had 25% recent admixture from the Iranian Plateau
*Sintastha culture was NOT admixed with any "Neolithic Europeans", and yet was blond and blue eyed.

The first hole is indeed an old and wrong information,it should be CHG.I didn't pay attention to it.

You're the one who's wrong in the second hole.The Sintashta culture was come from the Corded Ware and it had Neolithic admix.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-mystery-of-sintashta-people.html?m=1

[Dandelion]

No, because i have no finnic ancestry :)

Once saw such funny 19th century map posted by Peterski that labeled your people as 'Southern Finns'. I think that person got a bit too over-excited in his knowledge Finno-Ugric is a language family (albeit distantly connected). :p

Still, light blonde hair, blue eyes. That's the third Hungarian member with those traits here already. :)

[Token]

...
*Sintastha culture was NOT admixed with any "Neolithic Europeans", and yet was blond and blue eyed.
Not true. Sintashta was merely an eastern offshoot of Corded Ware with quite a lot of Neolithic European admixture. He is correct, Indo-Europeans only acquired very high rates of blondism after mixing with Neolithic Europeans, more specifically Globular Amphora farmers of Northeastern Europe. Not that it was completely absent in earlier cultures anyway.

[Veslan]

The first hole is indeed an old and wrong information,it should be CHG.I didn't pay attention to it.
No, from the Iranian Plateau.


You're the one who's wrong in the second hole.The Sintashta culture was come from the Corded Ware and it had Neolithic admix.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-mystery-of-sintashta-people.html?m=1
Even according to your own theory, they migrated from Ukraine to Ural mountains. Where were the Neolithic Europeans who they assimilated living? From what pre-Corded culture did they originate? There were only IE/EHG related cultures on their way.

[Veslan]

Not true. Sintashta was merely an eastern offshoot of Corded Ware with quite a lot of Neolithic European admixture. He is correct, Indo-Europeans only acquired very high rates of blondism after mixing with Neolithic Europeans, more specifically Globular Amphora farmers of Northeastern Europe. Not that it was completely absent in earlier cultures anyway.

Sintashta didn't assimilate literally any non-IE related culture. They migrated from Ukraine (IE) to Ural mountains (also IE).

[Ryuk]

No, from the Iranian Plateau.


Even according to your own theory, they migrated from Ukraine to Ural mountains. Where were the Neolithic Europeans who they assimilated living? From what pre-Corded culture did they originate?

Not ukraine,it was from abashevo(volga-kama region)


The Abashevo culture is an early Bronze Age (ca. 2500–1900 BCE) archaeological culture found in the valleys of the Volga and Kama River north of the Samara bend and into the southern Ural Mountains. It receives its name from the village of Abashevo in Chuvashia. Artifacts are kurgans and remnants of settlements. The Abashevo was the easternmost of the Russian forest zone cultures that descended from Corded Ware ceramic traditions. The Abashevo culture played a significant role in the origin of the Sintashta culture.

CW expansion began in modern poland-czech area from Western Yamna,and it mixed with globular amphora there,later CW expand to more east and brought with Neolithic compound with them


In short, simulation-based tests on mtDNA variation do not suggest that the GAC people of this study have special links with migrants from the Pontic steppes, but show a direct connection between the Yamna and later Central europe cultures (Corded Ware and Bell beaker), who derived almost half of their mitochondrial variation from them. The emerging picture is thus one in which migrations from the Pontic steppes into Central Europe left a trace in the genomes of the Corded Ware culture, but not in those of the GAC

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royprsb/284/1867/20171540.full.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi1qL-y24HfAhUJkywKHRF0D20QFjALegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1li7M2hMkMCpA4zGyVWdFl&cshid=1543773312322

[Veslan]

Not ukraine,it was from abashevo(volga-kama region)



CW expansion began in modern poland-czech area from Western Yamna,and it mixed with globular amphora there,later CW expand to more east and brought with Neolithic compound with them



https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royprsb/284/1867/20171540.full.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi1qL-y24HfAhUJkywKHRF0D20QFjALegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1li7M2hMkMCpA4zGyVWdFl&cshid=1543773312322
There is zero proof that Sintashta people had any admixture from Poland, also y-DNA evidence tends to not support it as well. If they were mixed with Globular Amphora, we would have found I2 or I1 samples in Sintashta or Andronovo, yet we didn't.

Also blond hair originates from Siberia, so they didn't need any pre-IE admixture to have it.

[Ryuk]

Sintashta didn't assimilate literally any non-IE related culture. They migrated from Ukraine (IE) to Ural mountains (also IE).

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29914-5&ved=2ahUKEwjVs4Oc3YHfAhXTTMAKHR67C1g4ChAWMAB6BAgDE AE&usg=AOvVaw2xeeCdYVx5qW0DftpbED3_


In this study, we present mitochondrial genomes from 23 Late Eneolithic and Bronze Age individuals, including representatives of the north-western Pontic region and the Corded Ware culture from the eastern part of the North European Plain. We identified, for the first time in ancient populations, the rare mitochondrial haplogroup X4 in two Bronze Age Catacomb culture-associated individuals. Genetic similarity analyses show close maternal genetic affinities between populations associated with both eastern and Baltic Corded Ware culture, and the Yamnaya horizon, in contrast to larger genetic differentiation between populations associated with western Corded Ware culture and the Yamnaya horizon. This indicates that females with steppe ancestry contributed to the formation of populations associated with the eastern Corded Ware culture while more local people, likely of Neolithic farmer ancestry, contributed to the formation of populations associated with western Corded Ware culture.

[Token]

Sintashta didn't assimilate literally any non-IE related culture. They migrated from Ukraine (IE) to Ural mountains (also IE).

They did. Like i said in my previous post, Sintashta is a back-migration of the Central European CWC to the steppes, that is pretty much a established archeological fact and genomics reflects it pretty well. Regarding non-IE admixture, let me show you practically with stats:

[1] "distance%=1.9394"

Sintashta_MLBA

Yamnaya_Samara,68.6
Globular_Amphora,29.6
WHG,1.8

Summing it up, ~69% Indo-European + 31% European farmer-related admixture, almost indistinguishable from Corded Ware.

[Ryuk]

There is zero proof that Sintashta people had any admixture from Poland, also y-DNA evidence tends to not support it as well. If they were mixed with Globular Amphora, we would have found I2 or I1 samples in Sintashta or Andronovo, yet we didn't.

Also blond hair originates from Siberia, so they didn't need any pre-IE admixture to have it.

Maternal origin of CW from GA,paternal from Yamna.
Indeed blonde hair is from siberia,but steppe people did not have this phenotype directly siberia

[Blondie]

Once saw such funny 19th century map posted by Peterski that labeled your people as 'Southern Finns'. I think that person got a bit too over-excited in his knowledge Finno-Ugric is a language family (albeit distantly connected). :p

Still, light blonde hair, blue eyes. That's the third Hungarian member with those traits here already. :)

I think the light blonde hair, blue eyes are german traits not finno-ugric :)

[Veslan]

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29914-5&ved=2ahUKEwjVs4Oc3YHfAhXTTMAKHR67C1g4ChAWMAB6BAgDE AE&usg=AOvVaw2xeeCdYVx5qW0DftpbED3_

Eastern Corded Ware =/= Western Corded Ware.

[Peterski]

I think the light blonde hair, blue eyes are german traits not finno-ugric :)

"Percent of blond hair among Ugro-Finns and their neighbours":

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?206251-Percent-of-blond-hair-among-Ugro-Finns-and-their-neighbours

[Ryuk]

Eastern Corded Ware =/= Western Corded Ware.

True,but both of them had Neolithic admix,eastern CW had extra EHG admix,so more blonde hair and blue eyes.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/02/early-baltic-corded-ware-form-genetic.html?m=1

[Veslan]

They did. Like i said in my previous post, Sintashta is a back-migration of the Central European CWC to the steppes, that is pretty much a established archeological fact and genomics reflects it pretty well. Regarding non-IE admixture, let me show you practically with stats:

[1] "distance%=1.9394"

Sintashta_MLBA

Yamnaya_Samara,68.6
Globular_Amphora,29.6
WHG,1.8

Summing it up, ~69% Indo-European + 31% European farmer-related admixture, almost indistinguishable from Corded Ware.

Finally a good evidence. Still blond hair is from Siberia, and Khvalynsk culture (as well as even Yamna in minority) also had it. Nordic race is of IE origin.

[Pizdastratos]

Just East shifted Baltid

[Finnish Swede]

There are blonde Samis (these 2 are from Finland). But much less than among Finns or Scandinavians.

82559

My personal opinion is that we should not talked Samis as a normal ethnic. Yes, they are that culturally (and even strongly vs, many Europeans), but their looks variates very/too much, and as population is also very small (70 000) ... in my eyes they are not typical ''ethnic'' .... they are individuals connected to each others via culture.

What is still typical to most of them: They are short vs. Northern European populations. Plus their legs are often bit short vs their body and their hands are opposite...bit long vs their body. Just like women in that photo. But even that; there are variations.

[Ryuk]

Finally a good evidence. Still blond hair is from Siberia, and Khvalynsk culture (as well as even Yamna in minority) also had it. Nordic race is of IE origin.

interesting,I do not saw any khalyvinsk autosomal result so far,do you have any work about that?

And yes Nordid race is of IE origin but also EHG and farmer.

[Token]

Finally a good evidence. Still blond hair is from Siberia, and Khvalynsk culture (as well as even Yamna in minority) also had it. Nordic race is of IE origin.
Then how do you explain very high rates of blond hair in GAC farmers, which had no Siberian/Nordic/IE admixture whatsoever? Early Indo-Europeans might have had blond hair, but not nowhere near the amount in modern-day Northern Europeans.


Nordic race is of IE origin.
Mostly but not completely.

[Davy Jones's Locker]

I'd guess East Baltic.

[Morticia]

Baltic with a Nordid strain. She looks a bit like myself.

[Viridian1]

They look kinda russian to me.

[Blondie]

Then how do you explain very high rates of blond hair in GAC farmers, which had no Siberian/Nordic/IE admixture whatsoever? Early Indo-Europeans might have had blond hair, but not nowhere near the amount in modern-day Northern Europeans.


Mostly but not completely.

I marker is a mesolitic european marker (not IE), so swedes and other scandinavians (finns too) and some balkanites (bosnians, croats, serbs) are much closer to native mesolitic non IE european population than central or eastern euros who have mostly indo-european genetic.

Mesolitic native europeans: I haplogroup
Indo-Europeans: R haplogroup
Uralic peoples: N haplogroup

[ᛖᚠᛄᚫᚱ ᚾᛁ ᚻᛚᚫᚱᛁ]

Thank God so called average Samis will not look like these....

https://i.ylilauta.org/de/8d7941bf.jpg
https://p3.no/filmpolitiet/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/svidd_neger2-310x413.jpg


LOL! F*cking Monkeys!

[Joso]

lapids

[Valwar]

lapids

They aren't, here's how real Lappids look:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Sami_women.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Three_Sámi_Lapp_women%2C_c1890s.jpg

[cyberlorian]

Baltids.

[Token]

I marker is a mesolitic european marker (not IE), so swedes and other scandinavians (finns too) and some balkanites (bosnians, croats, serbs) are much closer to native mesolitic non IE european population than central or eastern euros who have mostly indo-european genetic.

Mesolitic native europeans: I haplogroup
Indo-Europeans: R haplogroup
Uralic peoples: N haplogroup
Actually Scandinavians are the most Indo-European people on earth, at least in a genetic sense. Uniparental markers compose barely 1% of your total genome, so far they are only useful to trace ancient migrations throughout the world.

[indo-uralopean]

Their like the opposite of black people at night.

I almost didn't see them because of the background.

[tipirneni]

Some Sami pics from kola peninsula. Looks like these sami have some South Asian component admixed with Eastern Euro which is present among ancient Andhras & purohit kind. I get more than 100 cM on 2/ 200 SNPS on these samples some Brahmins get 300+ cM on these samples 200SNP/1cM.

https://www.arcticphotoshop.com/p/249/paulina-chaporova-1605627.jpg
http://img7.custompublish.com/getfile.php/87482.647/SAMI_JPEG00325835.jpg
http://kolatravel.com/img/saami-russian-lapland-lovozero-140446.jpg

[Finnish Swede]

They aren't, here's how real Lappids look:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Sami_women.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Three_Sámi_Lapp_women%2C_c1890s.jpg

It would be better to use today's photos and not those 100 years old b&w ones. Why? Just because those were taken exactly to support some racists agendas:

how ''Asians'' they are => how lower class people they are => their culture is worthless => their lands/areas can be used other ways and their culture can be destroyed.

Nah .. all by then photographed people were not even Samis.
But don't worry ... you can find similar looking Samis even today, but that is not the whole picture; far from it.

[Creoda]

It would be better to use today's photos and not those 100 years old b&w ones. Why? Just because those were taken exactly to support some racists agendas:

how ''Asians'' they are => how lower class people they are => their culture is worthless => their lands/areas can be used other ways and their culture can be destroyed.

Nah .. all by then photographed people were not even Samis.
But don't worry ... you can find kind similar looking Samis even today, but that is not the whole picture; far from it.
Are you part Sami/Lapp?

[Finnish Swede]

Are you part Sami/Lapp?

Nope. But I have nothing against them either. I don't remember any crimes done by Samis. Immigrants (and even some Europeans ... poorer who has moved here) are much worse. Samis have suffered more than enough via hands of Norwegians and Swedish (less).

Let me see .... basically I'm only against their today's numbers of reindeers (too many) and their relationships/attitudes against predators.

Possible fishing or hunting limitations (for non Samis) etc. special rights Samis have ... in the North .... doesn't matter me much. Even if my dad uses to go fishing in Lapland once a year ( Teno/Tana or Näätämö/Neiden rivers). And pays a lot of it as he is not a Sami. But that is just a hobby.

[Dick]

Nope. But I have nothing against them either. I don't remember any crimes done by Samis. Immigrants (and even some Europeans ... poorer who has moved here) are much worse. Samis have suffered more than enough via hands of Norwegians and Swedish (less).

Let me see .... basically I'm only against their today's numbers of reindeers and their relationships to predators.

Sami are good people.



The most common haplogroup among the Sami is N1c, with I1 as a close second according to that study

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Sami

[Blondie]

Actually Scandinavians are the most Indo-European people on earth, at least in a genetic sense. Uniparental markers compose barely 1% of your total genome, so far they are only useful to trace ancient migrations throughout the world.

No, because the haplogroup I is not indoeuropean but mesolitic european:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I1.gif

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

Genetically the most non indo-european nation is Finland, Sweden, Norway, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, they are much closer to native mesolitic population.

The one and only indo-european marker is haplogroup R:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a.gif

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png

[Valwar]

It would be better to use today's photos and not those 100 years old b&w ones. Why? Just because those were taken exactly to support some racists agendas:

how ''Asians'' they are => how lower class people they are => their culture is worthless => their lands/areas can be used other ways and their culture can be destroyed.

Nah .. all by then photographed people were not even Samis.
But don't worry ... you can find similar looking Samis even today, but that is not the whole picture; far from it.

I don't mean that's how Samis look, it's how people of the Lappid phenotype look. Most Sami are mixed with Scandinavians, and aren't of the Lappid type (at least not purely). Here are modern Lappids:

http://iwantigot.geekigirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/20070504_bjork10yearold.jpg
http://vks.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/static/results/15/91.normal.jpg

[Pribislav]

No, because the haplogroup I is not indoeuropean but mesolitic european:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I1.gif

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

Genetically the most non indo-european nation is Finland, Sweden, Norway, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, they are much closer to native mesolitic population.

The one and only indo-european marker is haplogroup R:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a.gif

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b-borders.png

I are old Europeans.

R are imigrants from central Asia.

R1a is +60% among Turkic Kyrgyz, and also common among Pakistanis and northern Indians.

[Blondie]

I are old Europeans.

R are imigrants from central Asia.

R1a is +60% among Turkic Kyrgyz, and also common among Pakistanis and northern Indians.

Pakistanis and northern indians are IE peoples and the r1a marker is pure indo-european haplogroup:

"R1a is thought to have been the dominant haplogroup among the northern and eastern Proto-Indo-European tribes, who evolved into the Indo-Iranian, Thracian, Baltic and Slavic people. The Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in the Yamna culture (3300-2500 BCE). Their dramatic expansion was possible thanks to an early adoption of bronze weapons and the domestication of the horse in the Eurasian steppes (circa 4000-3500 BCE). Individuals from the southern part of the Steppe are believed to have carried predominantly lineages belonging to haplogroup R1b (L23 and subclades), while the people of northern forest-steppe to the north would have belonged essentially to haplogroup R1a. The first expansion of the forest-steppe people occured with the Corded Ware Culture (see Germanic branch below). The migration of the R1b people to central and Western Europe left a vacuum in the southern steppe, which was filled by the R1a-dominant tribes with the expansion of the Catacomb culture (2800-2200 BCE). The forest-steppe origin of this culture is obvious from the usage of corded pottery and the abundant use of polished battle axes, the two most prominent features of the Corded Ware culture. This is also probably the time when the satemisation process of the Indo-European languages began, considering that the Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranian language groups belong to the same Satem isogloss and both appear to have evolved from the the Catacomb culture."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Totally depigmented Uralids.

[Pribislav]

Pakistanis and northern indians are IE peoples and the r1a marker is pure indo-european haplogroup:

"R1a is thought to have been the dominant haplogroup among the northern and eastern Proto-Indo-European tribes, who evolved into the Indo-Iranian, Thracian, Baltic and Slavic people. The Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in the Yamna culture (3300-2500 BCE). Their dramatic expansion was possible thanks to an early adoption of bronze weapons and the domestication of the horse in the Eurasian steppes (circa 4000-3500 BCE). Individuals from the southern part of the Steppe are believed to have carried predominantly lineages belonging to haplogroup R1b (L23 and subclades), while the people of northern forest-steppe to the north would have belonged essentially to haplogroup R1a. The first expansion of the forest-steppe people occured with the Corded Ware Culture (see Germanic branch below). The migration of the R1b people to central and Western Europe left a vacuum in the southern steppe, which was filled by the R1a-dominant tribes with the expansion of the Catacomb culture (2800-2200 BCE). The forest-steppe origin of this culture is obvious from the usage of corded pottery and the abundant use of polished battle axes, the two most prominent features of the Corded Ware culture. This is also probably the time when the satemisation process of the Indo-European languages began, considering that the Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranian language groups belong to the same Satem isogloss and both appear to have evolved from the the Catacomb culture."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

IE people are myth created by Jesuit "historians."

According to Stears proto-IE people were brown like Gypsies. :)
Stears is I1 and he dislake R1a and R1b.

[Blondie]

IE people are myth created by Jesuit "historians."

According to Stears proto-IE people were brown like Gypsies. :)
Stears is I1 and he dislake R1a and R1b.

The existence of IE peoples is scientific fact not myth and they have never been brown skinned... What does Stears have to do with me? He was wrong, as he was wrong in so many things.

[Ryuk]

The existence of IE peoples is scientific fact not myth and they have never been brown skinned... What does Stears have to do with me? He was wrong, as he was wrong in so many things.

indeed,PIE people are scientific fact,but they were also brown,at least were until corded ware culture.

[Finnish Swede]

I don't mean that's how Samis look, it's how people of the Lappid phenotype look. Most Sami are mixed with Scandinavians, and aren't of the Lappid type (at least not purely). Here are modern Lappids:

http://iwantigot.geekigirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/20070504_bjork10yearold.jpg
http://vks.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/static/results/15/91.normal.jpg

Good.

Nobody is interesting theoretical phenotypes (especially as those are classified, created and named by humans ... how objective are those?).
Nope, they are interesting people & ethnics.

And if we go on that road ... where to stop? We can continue all the way in the Sunrises of humans (even more ''original'' phenotype/phenotypes) ... and you might not like what you'll find...as a phenotype.

[Token]

indeed,PIE people are scientific fact,but they were also brown,at least were until corded ware culture.

Pigmentation-wise they were probably somewhere between Southern Europeans and West Asians, but their facial traits were very different from anything we see today. Based on genetic distance, the closest you can get to PIE are Norwegians.

[Blondie]

Pigmentation-wise they were probably somewhere between Southern Europeans and West Asians, but their facial traits were very different from anything we see today. Based on genetic distance, the closest you can get to PIE are Norwegians.

No, the PIE are closer to ukrainians, south russians and Norwegians are very close to mesolitic europeans. The haplogroup I is not IE.

[Finnish Swede]

No, the PIE are closer to ukrainians, south russians and Norwegians are very close to mesolitic europeans. The haplogroup I is not IE.

Never a less... I1 type, one which exactly Scandinavians have is someway interesting. The oldest samples (so far) are only 3000 - 3500 years old (Denmark and Southern Sweden).

[Token]

No, the PIE are closer to ukrainians, south russians and Norwegians are very close to mesolitic europeans. The haplogroup I is not IE.

Stop talking about genetics once for all, you are just embarassing yourself here. Spend the next year reading academic papers, maybe then we can have a discussion.

[Blondie]

Stop talking about genetics once for all, you are just embarassing yourself here. Spend the next year reading academic papers, maybe then we can have a discussion.

Okay give me any proof that the I haplogroup (10000-15000 years ago) population was IE speaker.

[Blondie]

Never a less... I1 type, one which exactly Scandinavians have is someway interesting. The oldest samples (so far) are only 3000 - 3500 years old (Denmark and Southern Sweden).

I1 is a germanic type, but I1 came from I and the I haplogroup was not IE, so the germanic haplogroup I1 have no IE origin but evolved from the mesolitic europeans.

[Token]

Okay give me any proof that the I haplogroup (10000-15000 years ago) population was IE speaker.

They weren't, but that means nothing, Y I becsme predominant in Scandinavia after going through bottleneck. Like i said to you before, uniparental markers accounts for less than 1% of your total genome.

[Dick]

They weren't, but that means nothing, Y I becsme predominant in Scandinavia after going through bottleneck. Like i said to you before, uniparental markers accounts for less than 1% of your total genome.

So we are closer to a stranger that shares 10% genes autosmally than our own father, grandfather or mother, grandmother etc. Blood is thicker than water as they say.