German Y-DNA regional breakdown (2400 samples)

[Lucas]

From German FTDNA project (6900 members, 2400 with Y-DNA geographical location information)



East Germany: East Pomerania, East- and West Prussia, Lower and Upper Silesia, East Brandenburg, Posen (EDIT: sample size 255)

https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/6124f6f3-78d1-46bf-bc71-cd869bb5acec.png

Central Germany: Mecklenburg, West Pomerania, West Brandenburg and Berlin, Province Saxony, Kingdom Saxony, Thuringian States
https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/17fc6a3b-20ed-4568-8ace-6e7cfbb235d4.png

NW Germany
https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/e2a891ca-7f2b-4785-8dc4-72d904fcc609.png

South Germany
https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/19c705b0-785c-42c0-a24f-ec35d4eb2fe6.png

[Peterski]

Sample size for each region? And did you check for example haplogroup breakdown by type of surname (Slavic etymology surnames, Germanic etymology surnames, etc.)? Here is what I gathered for East Prussia some time ago (n=84), I included kit numbers so you can compare if you have these kits among your samples:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?232019-R1a-M458-L1029*&p=4898786&viewfull=1#post4898786

There is 23% of haplogroup N in East Prussian sample (19/84).

[Lucas]

I think someone must check this FTDNA project. I try to find those info from person who made those charts.

[Peterski]

I think someone must check this FTDNA project. I try to find those info from person who made those charts.

Okay I thought you made them. BTW not everyone is in the German Project. For example there are people with ancestry from East Prussia who joined only East Prussian Project but did not join the German Project. Or the other way around. My sample for East Prussia was gathered from several different projects.

[Peterski]

There are also for example many people with ancestry from West (Royal) Prussia who joined the Polish-Lithuanian Project but did not join the German Project. Or vice versa.

Geography of these projects overlaps.

[Lucas]

Ok he answered me that sample size for East Germans is 255.
Not bad. East Prussia must be large part of it considering N frequency.

[Peterski]

Ok he answered me that sample size for East Germans is 255.
Not bad. East Prussia must be large part of it considering N frequency.

Yeah 7.4% out of 255 = 19.

I found 19 N from East Prussia alone (without other eastern regions) and it was long ago when I counted it.

BTW, haplogroups from Silesia Project, sample size 141:

http://www.moremaiorum.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/rozmieszczenie-terytorialne.jpg

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/silesia-slask-schlesien/about

http://www.moremaiorum.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/rozmieszczenie-terytorialne.jpg

I counted Silesia as well but my sample size was only 100.

And there were just 3 samples of N among those 100.


sample size for East Germans is 255

There are not just ethnic Germans, for example I'm also part of this sample as one of R1bs.

I suppose many are ethnic Jews as well. I mean Jewish Americans descended from Prussian Jews.

[Peterski]

Ok he answered me that sample size for East Germans is 255.
Not bad. East Prussia must be large part of it considering N frequency.

High % of R1a-Z280 is probably also due to East Prussia.

The majority of East Prussian R1a is Z280, M458 is much less.

From my sample of 84:

East Prussia (R1a subclades sample: 33 + 5 unknown):

R1a(xM458) - 27 (= 81.82% of R1a)
R1a-M458 - 6 (= 18.18% of R1a)

Unknown R1a - 5 (in total 33+5=38)

Compared to:

Modern Lithuanians (R1a subclades sample: 127):

R1a(xM458) - 100 (= 78.74% of R1a)
R1a-M458 - 27 (= 21.26% of R1a)

=========

R1a-Z280 is Balto-Slavic while M458 more Slavic.

That's why M458 is rare in Lithuania and East Prussia.

[Peterski]

But modern Poles have almost equal proportion of R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280. Check:

Two different estimates of percentages of R1a subgroups in Poland.

1. My estimate (I calculated it from FTDNA Projects):

R1a-M459 - 100,00% (sample size 1208), including:

---- M459* - 0,17% (2)
---- M198 - 99,83% (1206)
-------- M198* - 0,17% (2)
-------- L664 - 0,33% (4) - includes Korfanty family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_Korfanty

-------- Z645 - 99,34% (1200)
------------ Z93 - 2,73% (33)
------------ Z283 - 96,61% (1167)
---------------- Z283* - 0,91% (11)
---------------- Z284 - 0,41% (5)

---------------- M458 - 46,03% (556), including:
-------------------- L260 - 24,83% (300)
-------------------- CTS11962 - 20,45% (247)
-------------------- other M458 - 0,75% (9)

---------------- Z280 - 49,25% (595), including:
-------------------- CTS1211 - 38,49% (465)
------------------------ CTS3402 - 30,05% (363)
------------------------ other CTS1211 - 8,44% (102)
-------------------- Z92 - 9,85% (119)
-------------------- other Z280 - 0,91% (11)

2. Estimates of Peter Gwozdz from his website:

(but this includes Polish Jews with R1a-Y2619)

http://www.gwozdz.org/Results.html

R1a-M459 - 100,00% of Polish R1a, including:

Z93 - 5,25%
--- Y2619 - 3,03% - typical for Ashkenazi Jews CTS6>Y2619 - https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS6/
--- other Z93 - 2,22%

M458 - 46,87% of Polish R1a, including:
---- L260 - 29,70%
-------- YP254 - 19,60%
------------ Y4135 - 3,43%
------------ YP414 - 8,48%
---------------- YP610 - 5,66%
---------------- YP589 - 2,83%
------------ Y2905 - 7,07%
---------------- YP1364 - 3,43%
---------------- other Y2905 - 3,64%
------------ other YP254 - 0,62%
-------- YP654 - 4,85%
-------- other L260 - 5,25%
---- CTS11962 - 16,57%
-------- L1029 - 12,53%
------------ YP593 - 3,84%
------------ YP444 - 2,42%
------------ other L1029 - 6,27%
-------- YP515 - 4,04%
---- other M458 - 0,60%

Z280 - 46,87% of Polish R1a, including:
---- CTS1211 - 37,37%
-------- CTS3402 - 32,12%
------------ Y33 - 14,34%
---------------- Y2902 - 6,67%
---------------- S18681 - 5,05%
---------------- L1280 - 2,22%
---------------- other Y33 - 0,40%
------------ YP237 - 13,54%
---------------- YP389 - 4,44%
---------------- YP977 - 3,84%
---------------- L269 - 2,02%
---------------- other YP237 - 3,24%
------------ Y2613 - 4,04%
---------------- Y2608 - 3,64%
---------------- other Y2613 - 0,40%
------------ other CTS3402 - 0,20%
-------- YP343 - 4,04%
------------ YP371 - 2,83%
------------ other YP343 - 1,21%
---- Z92 - 8,48%
-------- Z685 - 5,66%
------------ CTS4648 - 2,83%
------------ YP351 - 2,83%
-------- Z92 type E - 2,42%
-------- other Z92 - 0,40%

All other R1a - 1,01%
I'm surprised that there is so much more of M458 than Z280 in Central Germany.

It probably means that during expansion to the Elbe Slavs didn't have much of Z280.

Maybe high Z280 in modern Poles is due to assimilation of Balts and East Slavs.

[Peterski]

NW Germany
https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/e2a891ca-7f2b-4785-8dc4-72d904fcc609.png

South Germany
https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/19c705b0-785c-42c0-a24f-ec35d4eb2fe6.png

In NW Germany main R1a subclade is M458.

In South Germany main R1a subclade is Z280.

Any ideas why?

=====

"Italo-Celtic" R1b-U152 more numerous in the south as expected.

In general R1b-P312 is more numerous in the south. Even L21.

[Lucas]

I had info on East Prussia alone. N frequency 24%.