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Radojica
05-05-2011, 10:32 PM
Today I found that some of the most important poems, historians, politicians and actress from Serbian history are in fact Aromanians (or, as we call them in Serbia Cincari) so I decided to investigate something about them and share that with You.

Aromanians have been living in the Balkans for two thousand years. It has never had an independent state and has often been a minority in its states of residence. Throughout its history it has apparently maintained good neighbourly relations with the peoples alongside which it has lived and is still living. Despite a certain tendency to integrate (it has almost completely merged with the host population in the north-western Balkans), this people has managed to remain linguistically and culturally homogeneous. However, it does not constitute a "community" in the sense of an organised group, and it is only since the political upheavals of the last few years in virtually all the countries inhabited by Aromanians that local, regional and national cultural associations have emerged and a number of international contacts developed.

The Aromanians are a very exceptional, indeed unique historical, linguistic and cultural phenomenon. And yet this highly original culture is at risk and the Aromanian language is doomed to extinction unless the European institutions, especially the Council of Europe, come to its aid. In fact, it would be unthinkable to remain inert and watch such a rich language and culture disappear. In contrast to other minority groups, the Aromanians make no political demands; all they want is assistance in protecting their language and culture, which form part of the European cultural heritage.

Origins and history of the Aromanian people

The Macedo-Romanians and Vlachs, who are sometimes called Mavro-Vlachs, Kutzo-Vlachs or Tsintsars and who call themselves Aromanians, are related to the Romanians living on the left bank of the Danube. Their language, Macedo-Romanian, belongs to the Romanian branch of the Romance languages, as do Daco-Romanian (spoken in Romania), Megleno-Romanian (still spoken in a number of villages in the Gevgelija area on the border between "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" and Greece) and Istro-Romanian (now virtually extinct). The earliest Aromanian text was found in Albania and dates from 1731, and therefore the documented history of the Aromanians begins only in the eighteenth century, even though there are several earlier historical references to the "Vlachs", a word which stems from the general name given by the earliest Slavs to peoples speaking Latin (or a Latinised language).

Opinions diverge on the origins of the Vlachs. It is, however, likely that they originated in the Roman colonisation of the Balkans, which began in the third century B.C. According to some historians the Aromanians are the descendants of Latinised Illyrian peoples and Roman legionaries who had settled in the Balkans following the conquest of Macedonia by Paulus-Emilius in 168 B.C. On the other hand, the Greeks consider them to be Latinised Greeks, the Bulgarians say that they descend from the Thracians, while the Romanians identify their origins in a branch of Romanised Dacians.

The fact that the Roman colonisation of Macedonia began earlier and lasted longer than that of Dacia would suggest that the Aromanians preceded the Romanians in Balkan history.

The Aromanians make their first appearance in history in the tenth century, when they were mostly spread over the mountain areas of the Balkan peninsula, from Istria to Greece and from the Adriatic to the Black Sea, though they broke down into two major groups: one along Mount Haemus and the other in northern Greece, Thessaly and southern Macedonia, but especially in the Pindus massif. According to their contemporaries, the Vlachs' main activity was pasturage, but they also engaged in trade, which explains their presence throughout the Balkans.

Benjamin of Tudela, a Spanish Jew who travelled through south-eastern Europe and the Middle East between 1159 and 1173, alludes to the Vlachs in The Itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela. He claimed that they enjoyed some measure of independence on their Valachian mountain tops. Historians, notably in Bulgaria, agree that the Vlach mountain-dwellers played a major role in the insurrection led by the brothers Theodore-Peter and John-Arsenius (probably of Bulgaro-Cuman origin) against Byzantium in 1186; this uprising led to the creation of the so-called "Second Kingdom of Bulgaria".

The Ottoman conquest in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries scarcely changed the Aromanians' situation, as they enjoyed some degree of religious and cultural autonomy within the Orthodox Christian millet.According to Pouqueville, Napoleon Bonaparte's Consul to Ali Pasha of Janina, the ruler of Epirus, the Vlachs enjoyed a special status and only paid a modest tribute to the Grand Sultan's mother. Other historians confirm that the Vlachs did indeed enjoy this privileged position. For instance, N. Malcolm points out that they were formally exempted from the law prohibiting non-Muslims from carrying weapons.

he Ottomans realised that the Vlachs' mobility and strong military tradition could be of use to them; they allowed them to maintain a national militia, whose members were called armatoles and their leaders capitani. By means of special fiscal measures and permission to pillage enemy territory, this militia was used to guard the border between the Ottoman and Hapsburg Empires. It is interesting to note that the Hapsburgs had the same idea and used the Vlachs who had been driven north by the advancing Ottomans against their brethren south of the border.
The Aromanians' Orthodox religion was one of the factors which assigned them a major role in the various wars and revolutions that culminated in the creation of the states which they now inhabit. The Greek patriotic association "Hetaeria" launched an uprising in 1821, and, after intervention by Russia, Britain and France, this led to the creation of the Greek state in 1830 and its independence in 1835.

Many illustrious names of Aromanian origin are to be found among the protagonists of the revolution and the outstanding figures in Greek culture and political life. Three examples are Baron George Sina, Marshal Constantin Smolensky, Patriarch Athenagoras and the Minister of Foreign Affairs Averoff. This is explained by the fact that many Aromanians were won over to Hellenic culture under the influence of the Greek school and church, because at the time the only nationality in Turkey entitled to maintain national schools, churches and cultural institutions were the Greeks. Taking advantage of the privileges granted to the Christians by the earliest Sultans, the Patriarchs of Constantinople _ all of whom were of Greek origin _ had become the ecclesiastical and civil leaders of all the Orthodox populations of the Empire. In fact, the Turks referred to all these peoples by the collective name of Rum, designating Christians (of the Eastern Roman Empire).

After independence, many Balkan countries adopted a policy of setting up national schools and granting independence to their churches. This trend was a token of their national emancipation and marked the development of the Romanian, Bulgarian, Greek and Serb societies during the second half of the nineteenth century.

The Macedo-Romanians experienced several movements of national reawakening from the eighteenth century onwards. This trend was centred in Moscopolis, the famous cultural centre of the Albanian Aromanians (now called Voskopoje). This liberation movement resumed in 1862 with the setting up of the first Macedo-Romanian school in Macedonia. At the same time, the Aromanian colony in Bucharest founded the Macedo-Romanian Intellectual Cultural Society, which worked to strengthen the movement among the other Aromanian communities in the Balkans.

Around this time Romania began to take a greater interest in the Aromanians' cause. Furthermore, the Turkish authorities were taking steps to promote the Aromanian national cultural movement. An order issued by the Vizier in 1878 gave Vlachs the right to be taught in their own language and afforded assistance and protection to their teachers. In 1888 the Macedo-Romanians obtained an imperial firman granting them the right to set up national churches. In 1908 Aromanian members were admitted to the Turkish Parliament.

The Berlin Treaty of 1878 also recognised the existence of the Macedo-Romanians as a separate nation, and placed them on the same level as the other nationalities in the Ottoman Empire. Under this treaty Thessaly and part of Epirus were annexed to Greece; the new borders thus split the Aromanian population of the Pindus in two. The Aromanians protested to the representatives of the great powers against this division, but in vain.

In the twentieth century, the regions inhabited by the Macedo-Romanians were again divided up among the various states in the region. Following the Balkan wars and the subsequent conflicts, sizeable groups of Aromanians were spread out around Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece, Turkey and Albania.

After the re-drawing of the borders between Bulgaria, Greece and Yugoslavia under the Bucharest Peace Treaty of 1913, the Aromanians proposed incorporating their main groups _ in the Pindus mountains and the regions between Gramos and Bitola _ into the future state of Albania in the form of an autonomous province. Greece put forward the alternative of absorbing the Pindus region into their own territory, undertaking to safeguard its inhabitants' specific national identity. This proposal was accepted, but it did not settle the Macedo-Romanian question. The fact that the Macedo-Romanians were not recognised as a minority at the time prepared the ground for future problems and conflicts. In 1918, Macedo-Romanian schools in Serbia were closed. During the 1920s the same fate befell many schools in Greece, and in 1938 all the Macedo-Romanian schools in Albania were closed. Finally, the last remaining Aromanian schools in Greece were shut down between 1945 and 1948.

Between the two world wars, Romania negotiated the setting up of Romanian-language schools with the other countries hosting Aromanian populations. However, this policy, which was intended as positive support for the Aromanians, had two negative effects: firstly, the Aromanians began to suspect Romania of attempting to assimilate them, and secondly, it also prompted suspicion on the part of the Aromanians' countries of residence, which began to regard them as Romanians (ie foreigners) rather than Aromanians (and therefore nationals).

Radojica
05-05-2011, 10:35 PM
The current position of the Aromanian community


It is virtually impossible to ascertain the exact number of Aromanians currently living in the Balkan countries. Some states exclude them from censuses and the official figures on them in other countries are disputed. At the same time, there are sizeable communities in Romania, Germany, France, the United States of America and Australia.

The Union for the Aromanian Culture and Language and the Association of French Aromanians estimate that some 1 500 000 Aromanians are currently citizens of various states throughout the Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria, Greece and "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". Nevertheless, this is most likely an overestimation.

During the Peace Conference in Versailles after the first world war, the Macedo-Romanian delegation, with which most of the participants had agreed to hold talks, issued a communiqué presenting estimates of the various Aromanian populations: the Pindus region (which wanted complete independence): 130 000 inhabitants; Bitola (Monastir): 83 145; Musakia-Corytza: 77 814; Saloniki: 103 877; and Thessaly: 81 520 inhabitants (total population: some 500 000).

Professor Peyfus of the University of Vienna estimates the number of Aromanians who use their mother tongue at 250 000 (in 1996). Greece apparently has the largest numbers of such persons, followed by Romanian, Albania, "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" and, lastly, Bulgaria.

The situation of the Aromanian community varies from country to country. It should be stressed that the Aromanians are full Albanian, Bulgarian, Greek, Macedonian, Yugoslav or Romanian citizens. They are fluent in the various languages spoken in their countries and are integrated into their national societies. I therefore think it would be ludicrous to consider them as any kind of threat to their countries, which, on the contrary, they enrich culturally.

The Aromanians limit their demands to recognition of their cultural rights, particularly the right to learn and use their language. They listed these rights in the resolution which they adopted at the international conferences held in Mannheim University (September 1985) and Freiburg University (September 1988 and July 1993), and at the six regional conferences held in the United States of America. These rights are also set out in an appeal addressed to the Conference of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the Balkan States, which took place in Belgrade in February 1988. National conferences have also been held in Albania and "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".


Conclusion
The traditional Aromanian lifestyle (including isolation from the other Balkan communities, a very high rate of endogamy, and an emphasis on rural economic activities) was completely disrupted at the beginning of this century by the political and social changes in the Balkans. When their territory was divided up among four different States and the borders were made permanent, the different Aromanian communities found themselves unable to conduct their traditional exchanges. More often than not, their herds and lands were sold, and many Aromanians left their mountainsides to settle in the towns and cities and thus merge with the mass. Compulsory education (in the majority language) and the advent of broadcasting served only to expedite this process.

As a result, the Aromanian language and culture, which had survived for 2 000 years in the Balkan mountains, are today threatened with extinction. The Council of Europe must do its utmost to prevent this risk, by demanding that all states which comprise Aromanian communities respect their cultural rights. This should be facilitated by the fact that all these states (apart from the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)) are now full members of our Organisation.

The Aromanians only want official recognition as a national minority and support from the authorities of the states in which they live, particularly in the following fields:



tongue teaching;

services in Aromanian in their churches;

newspapers, magazines and radio and television programmes in Aromanian;

support for their cultural associations.


This being the case, the Council of Europe should scrutinise the problems of this Balkan people and, in co-operation with their states of residence, help them preserve their language and culture, which are an integral part of the European heritage.

The Balkan states which comprise Aromanian communities should be encouraged to sign, ratify and implement the European Charter of Regional and Minority Languages and the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities (which would not imply automatic recognition of the Aromanians as a national minority). Every state signatory to the charter can choose which of the many measures proposed it wishes to apply to the regional or minority languages spoken within its territory. Even if each state concerned only chose the minimum level of protection for the Aromanian language, this would probably be enough to prevent its extinction.

Other Council of Europe member states should consider the possibility of creating university professorships for the Aromanian language and culture.

The European organisations might consider the possibility of supporting historic research into the Aromanian culture.

In its Recommendation 1291 (1996) on Yiddish culture, the Assembly recommended that the Committee of Ministers set up, under the auspices of the Council of Europe, a "laboratory for dispersed ethnic minorities" with a mandate, inter alia:



to promote the survival of minority cultures or their memory;

to carry out surveys of persons still speaking minority languages;

to record, collect and preserve their monuments and evidence of their language and folklore;

to publish basic documents;

to promote legislation to protect minority cultures against discrimination or annihilation.


Such a laboratory or observatory for dispersed ethnic minorities, equipped with modern academic resources, would be the ideal mechanism within the Council of Europe for safeguarding Aromanian language and culture.



link (http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/WorkingDocs/doc97/edoc7728.htm)

Osweo
05-06-2011, 12:06 AM
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/History/images/VlachShepherd.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Sarakatsan_Greece_Pindus.JPG/250px-Sarakatsan_Greece_Pindus.JPG
http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/7ef4502/en/fixed/440/336/Map-balkans-vlachs.png?format=jpg
http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/7ef4502/en/fixed/470/357/Romanian_Schools_for_Aromanians_and_Meglenoromania ns.JPG?format=jpg
http://wiki-images.enotes.com/thumb/b/bf/Aromanians_in_Albania.png/200px-Aromanians_in_Albania.png
http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/127f503/en/fixed/470/368/AromaniansinMacedonia.png?format=jpg
http://www.amcopress.ro/images/he08.gif
http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/00/3/2/9/24910723451828684.png


During the Peace Conference in Versailles after the first world war, the Macedo-Romanian delegation, with which most of the participants had agreed to hold talks, issued a communiqué presenting estimates of the various Aromanian populations: the Pindus region (which wanted complete independence): 130 000 inhabitants;
Wow. We need maps!!! :p
http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/f/fl/flag_of_aromanians_during_wwii.svg.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Bandera_dels_Aromanesos_de_Gr%C3%A8cia.svg/220px-Bandera_dels_Aromanesos_de_Gr%C3%A8cia.svg.png

Guapo
05-06-2011, 12:10 AM
Indigenous my ass, many are descended from Roman soldiers(Cincari=Fifth Legion from Gaul) from western Europe as well which is why R1B is quite high in Serbia proper.

Osweo
05-06-2011, 12:32 AM
Indigenous my ass, many are descended from Roman soldiers(Cincari=Fifth Legion from Gaul) from western Europe as well which is why R1B is quite high in Serbia proper.
Sounds a bit like a myth...

but;
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/History/images/VlachShepherd.jpghttp://www.gamebooks.org/scans/Asterix/asterix_to_the_rescue_obelix_card.jpg
Yep. That's about conclusive enough for me. Case Closed.

Radojica
05-06-2011, 12:35 AM
Indigenous my ass, many are descended from Roman soldiers(Cincari=Fifth Legion from Gaul) from western Europe as well which is why R1B is quite high in Serbia proper.

Ok, whats your definition of indigenous if not someone who is living in some region for more than 2000 years? According to your point, we can freely say that NO ONE of today's Europeans are indigenous in Europe, because, my dear God, we came from Africa and Middle East to Europe, right?


During Roman rule they were fully Romanized. After that, they were well known as fanatic defenders of Roman empire, they were recruited in Roman fifth legion and because of that they got name Cincars (cinco – five in Latin).

After arrival of Slavic tribes in VI century A.D. almost all Cincars were Slavicised, only small number preserved their Romance language and culture...

Osweo
05-06-2011, 01:49 AM
I think Aramis told me once that Ekrem Jevric was a Mavro-Vlakh;
MgNkJfTfHa4


He did a photo shoot for Dolce & Gabbana Winter 2011 Collection, positing as an Italian tailor, and he claims that the $1000 fee he received for the campaign but he said that photo shooting has nothing to do with his popularity, he was cast because of his Italian look.[2]
- Proof of a Roman legionary ancestry? :p :lol:

Guapo
05-06-2011, 01:57 AM
Ok, whats your definition of indigenous if not someone who is living in some region for more than 2000 years? According to your point, we can freely say that NO ONE of today's Europeans are indigenous in Europe, because, my dear God, we came from Africa and Middle East to Europe, right?

They were roaming shepherds/stock breeders and merchants, they weren't indigenous to any region and are not the same as Today's Romanians.

That quote is wrong. Roman fifth Legionnaires were from Gaul and settled in present day Serbia after retirement from the military.

Guapo
05-06-2011, 02:00 AM
I think Aramis told me once that Ekrem Jevric was a Mavro-Vlakh;
MgNkJfTfHa4


- Proof of a Roman legionary ancestry? :p :lol:

Mavrovlachs are from the coastal adriatic areas. Mavro=black in Greek.

iNird
05-06-2011, 02:18 AM
Tose Proeski is supposedly a Vlach.

http://www.enovosti.info/english/sajt/doc/Image/novosti_en/music/7_news_tose_proeski.jpg

The Journeyman
05-06-2011, 02:22 AM
Serbs ARE the original Balkan people. The Slavic contribution is probably equivalent to that of the Goths in Italy. I see more Serbs and Croats with completely unique features that are hard to mistake for another Slavic race.

Radojica
05-06-2011, 03:51 AM
They were roaming shepherds/stock breeders and merchants, they weren't indigenous to any region and are not the same as Today's Romanians.

Just because they were merchants they were spread across the Balkans and Today's Romanians could only come after Aromanians, not before because of Roman conquer of Dacia happened after conquest of Macedonia region (from where Aromanians supposedly origin is).


That quote is wrong. Roman fifth Legionnaires were from Gaul and settled in present day Serbia after retirement from the military.

There were two Fifth Roman legions: Galicia and Urbana. Here's what I found for both of them:


Legio V Gallica

The leg. V Gallica is mentioned only on several inscriptions from Antiochia Pisidiae, which were written at the time of Augustus, at least one or more decades after the battle of Actium: CIL III 6824 (T. Campusius C. f. Ser(gia) veteranus de legione V Galica). 6825, 6828; Journ. rom. stud. VI 1916, 90 (L. Pomponio Nigro vet(erano) leg(ionis) V Gal(licae)...). These are all epitaphs of veterans, who had settled there by the time of the foundation of the colony. The discharge of veterans of the legion is confirmed also through coins of the town, on which a legionary eagle between two signa with the inscription Leg V (minted at the time of Vespasians seventh consulsphip and also in 76 CE [Mus. Berlin]), as well as more signa beside ploughing colonists, between them number V (from the time of Gordian [Eckhel III p. 19]) are depicted. The colony had been founded earlier, perhaps around the year 729 = 25 BC immediately after the death of king Amytas and the takeover of his realm by Roman control (Ramsay Colonia Cäsarea in the Augustan age, Journ. rom. stud. VI 1916, 83ff.). The title Gallica in this early period identifies the legion as part of the army which fought under the dictator Caesar in Gaul. The suggestion of v. Domaszewski (N. Heidelb. Jahrb. IV 187, 5), who wanted to believe this legion was the one which was raised in the year 710 = 44 BC in Gaul by Munatius Plancus (Cic. fam. X 24, 3), is therefore not very probable. Since the aforementioned inscriptions of veterans name the legion at the time after the reorganisation of the army in 727 = 27 BC, there is the question, if the legion is identical with one of the likewise from the caesarian army arisen legiones quintae, Alaudae and Macedonica, or if a third legio quinta, namely the Gallica, existed besides the former two at one time. The last possibility attracted v. Domaszewski and he supposed, that this is the leg. V, whose eagle was lost in the defeat of M. Lollius by Germans in 737 = 17 BC (Arch.-epigr. Mitt. XV 189). Vellei. II 97, 1 ... accepta in Germania clades sub legato M. Lollio... amissaque legionis quintae aquila vocavit ab urbe in Gallias Caesarem; see also Gardthausen Augustus II 3, 676f. It seems, however, that a certain solution is with the so far known material impossible.
Legio V Urbana

With this epithet the legion is named only on three inscriptions from Ateste (CIL V 2514. 2515. 2518), but is without any doubt identical with the Leg. V on another three inscriptions from the same site (CIL V 2508. 2510. 2519) on which the epithet is missing or is broken off because of stone erosion. About the legion see Pietrogrande, Legione Romane e soldati della V Urbana in Ateste, Padova 1886 (not available for me). Gardthausen Augustus II 68, 4 and 344, 13. v. Domaszewski N. Heidelb. Jahrb. IV 181 and 187, 4. About the epithet in general: Steinwender, 'Die legiones urbanae', Philol. XXXIX 527ff.
The inscriptions prove that its veterans were discharged to the colony Ateste after the battle of Actium (CIL V p. 240), and the legion was probably disbanded, i.e. it wasn’t taken into the standing army of Augustus. The suggestion of Gardthausen, following Wilmann here, who believes that the V Urbana can be identified as the later V Macedonica, is not very probable. V. Domaszewski traces the origins and the epithet of the legion back to a legion created in the year 710 = 44 CE by Pansa and left in the capital for its protection (Appian. bell. civ. III 91; Obsequens 69). Should, however, the consuls exceed the number of four legions created by consuls for every year? Perhaps the legion of recruits newly created by Caesar to his veteran army of 4 legions (IIII, Martia, VII and VIII) (Appian. III 47), whose number could only have been V (cf. v. Domaszewski idem 187), was handed over to the senate and left behind in the capital, while Pansa moved to Mutina with 4 legions created by himself. After all this the V. legion could have received its title urbana on some later occasion during the civil wars before Actium.

before these Legion V Alaudae (founded by Julius Ceasar) was found and a few years later Legion V Macedonica founded by Octavian.

Conclusion: they were rightfully named Cincari for serving in Roman Fifth legion, but there's no proof that they were from Galicia. In case they were from Gaul they would be calling themselves Gaulo-Romanians, not The Macedo-Romanians (which led me to think that they served in Legio V Macedonica.

d3cimat3d
05-06-2011, 04:08 AM
Serbs ARE the original Balkan people. The Slavic contribution is probably equivalent to that of the Goths in Italy. I see more Serbs and Croats with completely unique features that are hard to mistake for another Slavic race.

Nah, modern Serbs mainly descend from western Poles + indigenous Thraco-Illyrians, & to a smaller extent from Romans, Goths, Celts & Magyars too.

The Journeyman
05-06-2011, 05:57 AM
Nah, modern Serbs mainly descend from western Poles + indigenous Thraco-Illyrians, & to a smaller extent from Romans, Goths, Celts & Magyars too.

Fair enough, I guess one worthless opinion deserves another.

Guapo
05-07-2011, 12:37 AM
Just because they were merchants they were spread across the Balkans and Today's Romanians could only come after Aromanians, not before because of Roman conquer of Dacia happened after conquest of Macedonia region (from where Aromanians supposedly origin is).



There were two Fifth Roman legions: Galicia and Urbana. Here's what I found for both of them:



before these Legion V Alaudae (founded by Julius Ceasar) was found and a few years later Legion V Macedonica founded by Octavian.

Conclusion: they were rightfully named Cincari for serving in Roman Fifth legion, but there's no proof that they were from Galicia. In case they were from Gaul they would be calling themselves Gaulo-Romanians, not The Macedo-Romanians (which led me to think that they served in Legio V Macedonica.

That doesn't change the fact that the Gaulish legion settled in Serbia. Many of those who settled in Moesia became farmers and were called Moeso-Gauls. Where do you think those ruddy phenotypes came from? Slavs or Illyrians? I highly doubt it.

Odoacer
05-07-2011, 07:28 AM
I think Aramis told me once that Ekrem Jevric was a Mavro-Vlakh;
MgNkJfTfHa4

:eek: It's Goebbels!

Osweo
05-08-2011, 02:37 AM
We need to determine the AGE of the term 'cincari'. It LOOKS like it could be derived from 'quinque', like French 'cinq', but can it really be satisfactorily demonstrated?

Arumanian for 'five' is tinti apparently, but perhaps the 't' is pronounced 'ts' in that language?


Interestingly, no other Legion in Europe that I know of has left a memory of its number. On the contrary, there was only ONE legion in any particular region, and so the locals and members mostly just spoke of it as 'the Legion'. That's why there's now a language called 'Leonese', and a town called Caerleon.

Radojica
02-09-2012, 03:11 PM
The Arumani (or Vlakhs)


The Arumani are a disappearing people. Today there are not more than
154 Aruman communities, with 150,000 to 160,000 scattered individuals,
chiefly in the southern part of the rampart of the Pindus and in the central
and southern parts of the Balkan Peninsula. They may almost be termed
an uprooted people. They occupy no large area of their own. Even where
small groups of them occur, they do not cultivate the soil-they are not
agriculturists-and they are only slightly connected with the geographical
environment in which they live. They are above all the wandering shepherds of the peninsula, veritable nomads who migrate from the highest
Balkan mountains to the coast and back again. Those who settle dowia in
villages do not stay there long. Their villages are not like ordinary villages.
Around them there are no cultivated fields, not even vegetable gardens, nor cattle. They only serve as shelter for the women and children, to provide for whose living the men scatter throughout the cities of the peninsula.

THEIR HISTORY

The Arumani are the last descendants of the semi-Latinized Balkan
populations. They are undoubtedly more Latinized than the Albanians;
and, furthermore, they seem to differ from the Albanians particularly
in being, together with the Greeks of Thrace and Macedonia, the most
Byzantinized group of the peninsula.
During the Middle Ages the Arumani were still very numerous in the
mountains and the secluded regions of the peninsula. They constituted, as
has been indicated, the majority of the population in Thessaly and in
Aetolia, or Great and Little Wallachia (Vlakhia). White Wallachia was
a well-known designation in the Balkans and north of the Balkan Range;
it was the Vlakhs of this region who, with the Bulgarians, founded the
Vlakho-Bulgarian kingdom under the dynasty of Asen in the twelfth centurv.
During the same period the name Black Wallachia was current in
what is now Moldavia. In the eleventh century the Arumani inhabited a
part of the Dobrudja and the vicinity of Anchialos on the Gulf of Burgas.
They were known in Thrace in the thirteenth century. In Serbian documents
of the Middle Ages the presence of Vlasi (Vlakhs, Arumani) in the
mountainous regions to the southwest of the Shumadiya as well as in the
vicinity of Prizren is often referred to. However, it is not always possible
to decide whether the name Vlasi was used to designate the real Arumani
or, because of their pastoral occupation, the Serbian shepherds.
The Arumani have become Slavicized and Grecized and have completely
disappeared from the villages or entire districts where they were still to
be found two centuries or even one century ago. Several explorers have
stated that at the end of the eighteenth century the number of Arumani in
the central and Pindus regions of the peninsula amounted to between
400,000 and 500,000. It is a curious fact that they became Moslemized only
very rarely. For instance, the Arumani of Meglen in eastern Macedonia
first amalgamated with the immigrant Petchenegs and did not become
Moslemized for 200 years or more.

VOL. V MAY, 1918 No. 5
THE GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRIBUTION OF THE BALKAN
PEOPLES
By JOVAN CVIJIC
Professor of Geography, University of Belgrade

morski
02-09-2012, 04:00 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/PitoGuli.jpg
Pitu Guli (Cyrillic: Питу Гули) (1865, Kuruşova — 1903, Kuruşova, Ottoman Empire) was an Aromanian revolutionary in Ottoman Macedonia, a local leader of what is commonly referred to as the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO).[1]

Born to a poor family, he demonstrated an independent and rebellious nature early in life. He left his home in Macedonia at the age of 17 in search of wealth in the Bulgarian capital, Sofia. In 1885, he returned to Macedonia, formed a rebel squad and joined other elements of the revolutionary movement against the Ottoman Empire.

Pitu Guli is father of Tashko Gulev (Shula Guli), who died in 1918 as soldier of Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianopolitan Volunteer Corps and of the revolutionary of IMRO Nikola Gulev (Lakia Guli), one of closest people to Todor Alexandrov, killed by Serbian police in 1924.[2] Pitu Guli is also a father of Steryo Gulev, reportedly shot himself after Bulgarian withdrawal in 1944, upon the arrival of Tito's partisans in Krushevo in despair over what he saw as a second period of Serbian dominance in Macedonia.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Rayko_Zhinzifov.jpg
Rayko Ivanov (Yoanov) Zhinzifov (Bulgarian: Райко Иванов (Йоанов) Жинзифов; 15 February 1839—15 February 1877), born Ksenofont Dzindzifi (Ксенофонт Дзиндзифи) was a Bulgarian National Revival poet and translator from Macedonia who spent most of his life in the Russian Empire.

Zhinsifov was born in 1839 in Veles in the Ottoman Empire, today in the Republic of Macedonia. He may have been of Grecoman Aromanian origin, though this is disputed.

пустиняк
02-11-2012, 08:18 AM
http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic2/4233.jpg

Georgi Muchitanov from Krushevo Macedonia is Bulgarian revolutionary and voivoda in IMARO. He is Vlach but fought for Bulgarian cause in Macedonia.

http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B8_%D0%9C%D1%83% D1%87%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2

Redar14
02-11-2012, 08:35 AM
Nah, modern Serbs mainly descend from western Poles + indigenous Thraco-Illyrians

Absurd. Slavic influence in serbian population come from Serbo-Lusatians.

Daos
02-18-2012, 04:24 AM
We need to determine the AGE of the term 'cincari'. It LOOKS like it could be derived from 'quinque', like French 'cinq', but can it really be satisfactorily demonstrated?

Arumanian for 'five' is tinti apparently, but perhaps the 't' is pronounced 'ts' in that language?

In Romanian it's "cinci", so yes, I'm certain "tsintsi" is derived from the Latin "cinque".

I've translated part of the Romanian Wikipedia article on Aromanians:


The Serbian lexicographer Vuk Stefanović Karadžić explains this name in that the sounds ce and ci from Latin are pronounce by the Aromanians tse and tsi. Karadžić also advanced the hypothesis that tsintsari comes from tsintsi, but Theodor Capidan stated that the relatively rare use of the word tsintsi cannot explain this name, and that it could more likely be attributed to the high frequency of the use of the sounds tse and tsi in Aromanian, such as in sentences like "Tse fatsi?" (Ce faci? - How are you?).

пустиняк
02-18-2012, 07:11 AM
Ioannis Kolletis - Prime Minister of Greece of Vlach origin

http://www.epirus.com/syrrako/photo/pict05l.jpg

Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: Ιωάννης Κωλέττης) (1773 - 1847) was a Greek politician who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.
Early life
Kolettis was born in Syrrako, Epirus and played a leading role in the political life of the Greek state in the 1830s and 1840s. Kolettis was of Vlach origin and studied medicine in Pisa, Italy and was influenced by the Carbonari movement and started planning his return to Epirus in order to participate in Greece's independence struggles.
Greek War of Independence
In 1813, he settled at Ioannina, where he served as a doctor and after gaining standing he was recruited as the personal doctor of Ali Pasa's son, Muqtar Pasa. He remained in Ioannina till March 1821, when he entered Filiki Eteria and left for Syrrako, together with chieftain Raggos, in order to spread the revolution into the Rumelia, but his efforts quickly failed because of the rapid reaction of the Ottoman army. Kolettis was the leader of the pro-French party and based his power on his relations with the leaders of Rumeli but also on his ability to eliminate his adversaries by acting behind the scenes.
Political career after 1821
When John Capodistria landed at Nafplio in January 1828 as Governor, he was appointed as governor of Samos and later, on July, 1829 as Minister of Defense. In October 1831, Capodistria was assassinated; in the ensuing civil war, which lasted until 1832, Kolettis was once again leader of the Roumeliot Party. He tried, along with Theodoros Kolokotronis and Augustinos Kapodistrias to form a government but due to severe disagreements the coalition was dissolved.
Political career during Otto's reign
Until Otto of Greece reached adulthood, Kolettis was Minister of the Navy and Minister of Defense. In 1835, he was sent to France as the ambassador where he created connections with French politicians and intellectuals. He returned to Greece after the coup that broke out in Athens in September 1843, which forced King Otto to grant a constitution and Kolettis took part in the subsequent Constitutional Assembly. To contest the elections in 1844, he formed a party, the French Party (Γαλλικό Κόμμα) and together with Andreas Metaxas, leader of the English Party formed a government. When Metaxas resigned, he became Prime Minister and served as such until his death in 1847. He is credited with conceiving the Megali Idea or "Great Idea" which became the core of Greek foreign policy until the early 20th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis

Ouistreham
02-18-2012, 08:22 PM
For those who don't know: Marie-Christine Arnautu, a vice-president of the French Front National and it's first spokesman for the Paris region, is born of a family of Aromanian immigrants.

She is a little women of 50 with an amazing load of energy and will within her short stature :

http://www.nationspresse.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Marie-Christine-Arnautu-Elections-Regionales-2010.jpg

http://www.nationspresse.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Lequipe-MCA-2010.jpg

Duke
02-18-2012, 08:38 PM
Istrian-Ćići, Ćiribirci

http://www.istro-romanian.net/graphics/art100326.jpg
http://www.istro-romanian.net/graphics/art02011315.jpg
http://www.istro-romanian.net/graphics/villages_08.jpg
http://www.istro-romanian.net/graphics/art0709062.jpg
http://www.istro-romanian.net/graphics/newyork_14.jpg
http://www.istro-romanian.net/graphics/dialecte_01.jpg
http://www.jutarnji.hr/multimedia/dynamic/00279/istrorumunjski_279577S1.jpg


ALthough they kept latin language, national costumes of them are simmilar to ours, and they have similar traditions, for instance


Them
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/The_Carnival_of_the_Istro-Romanians_from_Jeian,_2006.jpg

Us
http://www.rta.hr/universalis/583/slika/zvoncari_201742229.jpg

chyyris
03-02-2018, 03:54 AM
Question for Romanian users: Do you understand and how much Aromanian dialect from Andon Poci in southern Albania?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh9hePNiPfg

Aromanian dialect from the clip sound very different from Aromanian language from Macedonia and Greece and from Romanian language.
According to some comments at youtube Romanians understand only 1/4 what this guy speak.
Aromanian language sounds almost identical as Romanian to me, but this dialect from clip sounds very different from Romanian.

NSXD60
03-02-2018, 04:00 AM
Guy in first pic looks like he frequents Turkish tailors.

ovidiu
03-03-2018, 05:08 PM
Question for Romanian users: Do you understand and how much Aromanian dialect from Andon Poci in southern Albania?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh9hePNiPfg

Aromanian dialect from the clip sound very different from Aromanian language from Macedonia and Greece and from Romanian language.
According to some comments at youtube Romanians understand only 1/4 what this guy speak.
Aromanian language sounds almost identical as Romanian to me, but this dialect from clip sounds very different from Romanian.

Yeah that particular dialect I only understand about a quarter of it. One weird thing I noticed is he does this thing where he rolls his r's in the back of his throat in an almost pseudo-French way, something I've noticed among a fair amount of Romanians, particularly peasants and country folk (Ceausescu had it as well, and he was not well educated). I always thought it stemmed from a speech impediment of some kind, but maybe it actually has deeper roots! Really interesting.

I can understand this guy a bit more.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY8HBFwRE-w

Slightly less these people, although the difference isn't huge


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUeMj9_XrJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwWzzl2oZTk

Pribislav
01-13-2019, 02:40 AM
In southwestern Bosnia near Livno there is mountain Cincar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincar
Cincar means Aromanian on Serbian language.

Cincars/Aromanians somethimes in the past as semi-nomads broughted livestock to Dinaric Alps for the pastures and returned to Pindus.
Mountain Cincar keep memory on semi-nomadic Aromanians which feeded their livestock there.