Illyrians (an interesting find)

[Bosniensis]

I the book of Greek Historian Chalkondyles, Tome III Book named "De Rebus Turcicis" Page: CCXXXVIII it says:

"Sarmatarum lingua similis est Illyriorum, Jonium ad Venetos usque accolentium..."

Which means: The language of Sarmatians is the same that one used by the Illyrians from Ionian sea up to Venice" and then he continues that some Illyrians take great pride in that how old is their language unlike their
neighbors who take pride in territories they hold. Then he said that same those Illyrians lived in Poland and Sarmatia.

Then on the same page he continues:

"..aus Sarmatas ab Illyricis, aut Illyricos a Sarmatis deducamus"

He actually isn't sure have Sarmatians descended from Illyrians or Illyrians from Sarmatians.

Later he is citing Strabon: "Bria Thracico sermone civitas, Selyos oppidum appellatur" which means: "Bria on Thracian means City, Selyios means Stronghold (village)"

And we all know that on Serbian "Selo means Village and Bria doesn't mean a city, but we use term "Briati" when we go to city"

I've got a tons of this content written by Byzantine Historians, still to decipher from Latin it's amazing really when you have 13th century Historian actually confirming that so called Slavic language is native language on Western Balkans since ever.

Thankfully old Serbian writers have this all translated already.

[Dick]

Yup. We are the true Illyrians. Albanians are just Hellenes with a different dialect.

[Bosniensis]

Yup. We are the true Illyrians. Albanians are just Hellenes with a different dialect.

Read this book: http://ivoandric.no/biblioteka/Istorija/Olga%20Lukovic%20Pjanovic%20-%20Srbi%20narod%20najstariji.pdf

If you have time, it's amazing, full of legitimate references.

[Dick]

Read this book: http://ivoandric.no/biblioteka/Istorija/Olga%20Lukovic%20Pjanovic%20-%20Srbi%20narod%20najstariji.pdf

If you have time, it's amazing, full of legitimate references.

I'm being serious and you're a trolling Arnaut.

[Bosniensis]

I'm being serious and you're a trolling Arnaut.

I am serious, I am not trolling.

That book has references from famous historians and writers, all put in one place.

[Tauromachos]

I am serious, I am not trolling.

That book has references from famous historians and writers, all put in one place.

When will you write your own book?

[Dick]

I am serious, I am not trolling.

That book has references from famous historians and writers, all put in one place.

Alright but what I said is obvious even from an airplane. Albanians and Greeks are practically identical autosmally and share the same ydna.

[Bosniensis]

Alright but what I said is obvious even from an airplane. Albanians and Greeks are practically identical autosmally and share the same ydna.

I agree, Albanians are Epirotes to me... and due their identical DNA with Greeks they are obviously NOT Illyrians for Illyrians are a separate people from Greeks.

Albanians just speak some hillbilly language of the past that has mutated into modern albanian.

[Dick]

Albanians just speak some hillbilly language of the past that has mutated into modern albanian.

In a nutshell, yes, like Dinaric Serbs that speak a hillbilly language that Croats call "Croatian" and Bosniaks "Bosnjacki" xD

[Bosniensis]

In a nutshell, yes, like Dinaric Serbs that speak a hillbilly language that Croats call "Croatian" and Bosniaks "Bosnjacki" xD

Bosniaks are speaking Proper Serbian language (ask anyone) in fact people in Serbia are speaking inproper "Southern Serbian" language.

Nemanjić spoke like Bosniaks (excluding people from Sarajevo), ijekavica is older and more correct way of expression than ekavica.

[Dick]

Bosniaks are speaking Proper Serbian language (ask anyone) in fact people in Serbia are speaking inproper "Southern Serbian" language.

Nemanjić spoke like Bosniaks (excluding people from Sarajevo), ijekavica is older and more correct way of expression than ekavica.

Bosniaks are islamized Serbs. All your ydna are belong to us.

[Bosniensis]

Bosniaks are islamized Serbs. All your ydna are belong to us.

Bosniaks are Serbs who have disconnected from Serbian Orthodox community due being different now. .

It's not all about DNA after all, nobody in Bosnia and Serbia recognize me as a Serb due being descendant of Ottoman Serbs, after all
Serbian identity is built upon the fight against Ottoman Serbs.

But we should explore our distant history together.

[Dick]

Bosniaks are Serbs who have disconnected from Serbian Orthodox community due being different now. .

It's not all about DNA after all, nobody in Bosnia and Serbia recognize me as a Serb due being descendant of Ottoman Serbs, after all
Serbian identity is built upon the fight against Ottoman Serbs.

But we should explore our distant history together.

Knowing is half the battle.

[Thanas Django]

Serbian identity is built upon the fight against Ottoman Serbs.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqD2ZEE0Uic

[Bosniensis]

Knowing is half the battle.

Knowing is a complete battle, there is nothing more to it. History is History and should be regarded as such.

Bosniaks and modern Serbs will never be a single ethnicity ever again, religious differences and historical wounds are beyond repair.

But as I said that should not be a reason not to cooperate on many levels. We do descend from the same group of people and history
and should fight together against those who want to steal it.

Cheers

[Papastratosels26]

Cool

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Kelmendasi]

Whoever wrote that book was high on crack

[Bosniensis]

Whoever wrote that book was high on crack

How about Strabon in his Book VII citing Aelius Sextus Cato says:

"Sed Getae unius Linguae cum Dacis erant. Edem utuntur cum Dacia lingua Getae. Thracia vero, seu Getica, seu Sarmatica."

"Gaetae had the same language as Dacians, truly Thracian, Dacian and Sarmatian"

Appendini is quoting Ovid namely his Elegian Book 3 (eleg 14.) where Ovid says that he learned Thracian and Scythian language and that
he can write words like Gaetae. Francesco Maria Appendini after further research concludes that:

"Sarmaticam vero fuisse eamdem ac Geticam, sic ille ostendit.." - Language of Sarmatians and Gaetae are the same.

and Ovid said: (Trist V, Eleg 12) "Jam didici Getice, Sarmaticque loqi" - I already learned two languages (of Gaetae and Sarmatian)

You can't denounce Ovid and Strabon as lunatics.

[Kelmendasi]

How about Strabon in his Book VII citing Aelius Sextus Cato says:

"Sed Getae unius Linguae cum Dacis erant. Edem utuntur cum Dacia lingua Getae. Thracia vero, seu Getica, seu Sarmatica."

"Gaetae had the same language as Dacians, truly Thracian, Dacian and Sarmatian"

Appendini is quoting Ovid namely his Elegian Book 3 (eleg 14.) where Ovid says that he learned Thracian and Scythian language and that
he can write words like Gaetae. Francesco Maria Appendini after further research concludes that:

"Sarmaticam vero fuisse eamdem ac Geticam, sic ille ostendit.." - Language of Sarmatians and Gaetae are the same.

and Ovid said: (Trist V, Eleg 12) "Jam didici Getice, Sarmaticque loqi" - I already learned two languages (of Gaetae and Sarmatian)

You can't denounce Ovid and Strabon as lunatics.
Them guys were on that old school hemp. Seriously though, if they actually wrote that then I doubt their credibility. The Illyrians wouldn't have been proud of their language as they didn't have a unified identity, they didn't see each other as "Illyrians". No evidence of Illyrians inhabiting areas in Poland or areas that were also inhabited by Sarmatians. They were practically confined to the western Balkans, Messapic groups in Italy may have been Illyrian but they may also have been some other Balkan group. Iranic was never spoken in the western Balkans by classical populations, the same goes for the rest of the Balkans.

[Bosniensis]

Them guys were on that old school hemp. Seriously though, if they actually wrote that then I doubt their credibility. The Illyrians wouldn't have been proud of their language as they didn't have a unified identity, they didn't see each other as "Illyrians". No evidence of Illyrians inhabiting areas in Poland or areas that were also inhabited by Sarmatians. They were practically confined to the western Balkans, Messapic groups in Italy may have been Illyrian but they may also have been some other Balkan group. Iranic was never spoken in the western Balkans by classical populations, the same goes for the rest of the Balkans.

According to what I've read is that the first inhabitants of western balkans were Thracian tribes and that Illyrians invaded from North. They lived in modern Hungary (which is why it's called Pannonian plain) Pannonius was
a son of Illyrios and first Illyrian tribes were Pannonian tribes.

I am just saying what OTHERS have said, I can't have my own opinion on this issue for obvious reasons.

I don't find a relation between Illyrians and Thracians, in my opinion those were the same groups of peoples.

Albanians, honestly, are Epirotes a distinct Hellenic group of people can't identify them with Illyrians.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Yup. We are the true Illyrians. Albanians are just Hellenes with a different dialect.

Shame on you Dick. Don't you recognize that Albanians are Italians with a different dialect?

[Kelmendasi]

According to what I've read is that the first inhabitants of western balkans were Thracian tribes and that Illyrians invaded from North. They lived in modern Hungary (which is why it's called Pannonian plain) Pannonius was
a son of Illyrios and first Illyrian tribes were Pannonian tribes.

I am just saying what OTHERS have said, I can't have my own opinion on this issue for obvious reasons.

I don't find a relation between Illyrians and Thracians, in my opinion those were the same groups of peoples.

Albanians, honestly, are Epirotes a distinct Hellenic group of people can't identify them with Illyrians.
No evidence that Thracians inhabited the western Balkans first. It was probably just some Paleo-Balkanic cultures dating back to the late Bronze Age or some time around there. Thracians were distinct from Illyrians. Albanians aren't Epirotes/Hellenic, that's just an odd claim. Albanian clearly stem from one of the non-Hellenic Paleo-Balkan groups.

[Bosniensis]

No evidence that Thracians inhabited the western Balkans first. It was probably just some Paleo-Balkanic cultures dating back to the late Bronze Age or some time around there. Thracians were distinct from Illyrians. Albanians aren't Epirotes/Hellenic, that's just an odd claim. Albanian clearly stem from one of the non-Hellenic Paleo-Balkan groups.

I don't know which languages Illyrians used, but I am absolutely sure that Thracians (Ras) spoke Balto-Slavic languages and that Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians who are genetically homogeneous are those people.

Cause Thracian language is documented to some degree, Illyrian isn't.

[Kelmendasi]

I don't know which languages Illyrians used, but I am absolutely sure that Thracians (Ras) spoke Balto-Slavic languages and that Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians who are genetically homogeneous are those people.

Cause Thracian language is documented to some degree, Illyrian isn't.
Thracians didn't speak a Slavic language like the South Slavs, even claiming that they spoke a Balto-Slavic language is a dubious claim. Their language showed similarities to Balto-Slavic, but they weren't enough to make a direct connection. Besides, Thracian was closer to Baltic rather than Slavic going by what linguists have suggested. South Slavs are Slavs, it's in the name.

[Dick]

Shame on you Dick. Don't you recognize that Albanians are Italians with a different dialect?

My bad.


I don't know which languages Illyrians used, but I am absolutely sure that Thracians (Ras) spoke Balto-Slavic languages and that Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians who are genetically homogeneous are those people.

Both Thracian and Dacian are considered Satem-like so you may have a point.

[Bosniensis]

My bad.



Both Thracian and Dacian are considered Satem-like so you may have a point.

I've seen Thracian language word-list... that's our language... 60 everyday words. You've seen it as well.

Plus all those Historians Ovid, Strabon, Herodotus, Chalkondyles, Georgious Gemistus Pletho.

Georgios Gemistus Pletho 1450 when Empress Helena Dragas died said: "Our Dear Empress was Thracian women"

Also veneration of Thracian Horsemen (that became St. George) is the most popular among the South Slavs.

I don't know what other evidence is needed.

[Bosniensis]

Thracians didn't speak a Slavic language like the South Slavs, even claiming that they spoke a Balto-Slavic language is a dubious claim. Their language showed similarities to Balto-Slavic, but they weren't enough to make a direct connection. Besides, Thracian was closer to Baltic rather than Slavic going by what linguists have suggested. South Slavs are Slavs, it's in the name.

I am 50% Baltic + 50% Greek and all Slavs have Enormous Baltic Admixture, so what is your point?

[Kelmendasi]

I am 50% Baltic + 50% Greek and all Slavs have Enormous Baltic Admixture, so what is your point?
I thought it was 50% Ukrainian and 50% Greek? Caught you slacking nignog

[Kelmendasi]

I've seen Thracian language word-list... that's our language... 60 everyday words. You've seen it as well.

Plus all those Historians Ovid, Strabon, Herodotus, Chalkondyles, Georgious Gemistus Pletho.

Georgios Gemistus Pletho 1450 when Empress Helena Dragas died said: "Our Dear Empress was Thracian women"

Also veneration of Thracian Horsemen (that became St. George) is the most popular among the South Slavs.

I don't know what other evidence is needed.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=12321&dateline=1544542052

[Bosniensis]

I thought it was 50% Ukrainian and 50% Greek? Caught you slacking nignog

MDLP 23

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serb_Serbia_ @ 4.891865
2 Montenegrian_ @ 5.123010
3 Serb_BH_ @ 5.771439
4 Croat_ @ 6.442669
5 Bosnian_ @ 6.492367
6 Hungarian_Budapest_ @ 7.316673
7 Macedonian_ @ 7.452105
8 Austrian_ @ 7.992090
9 Bulgarian_ @ 7.996101
10 Hungarian_ @ 8.636503
11 Croat_BH_ @ 8.641397
12 Slovenian_ @ 8.930889
13 German_East_ @ 9.651109
14 Czech_ @ 10.056395
15 German-Volga_ @ 10.660328
16 South_German_ @ 11.325769
17 Gagauz_ @ 12.901126
18 Dutch_ @ 13.012399
19 North_German_ @ 13.019816
20 Slovak_ @ 13.085639

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Balt_ +50% Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 2.803852

[Kelmendasi]

MDLP 23

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serb_Serbia_ @ 4.891865
2 Montenegrian_ @ 5.123010
3 Serb_BH_ @ 5.771439
4 Croat_ @ 6.442669
5 Bosnian_ @ 6.492367
6 Hungarian_Budapest_ @ 7.316673
7 Macedonian_ @ 7.452105
8 Austrian_ @ 7.992090
9 Bulgarian_ @ 7.996101
10 Hungarian_ @ 8.636503
11 Croat_BH_ @ 8.641397
12 Slovenian_ @ 8.930889
13 German_East_ @ 9.651109
14 Czech_ @ 10.056395
15 German-Volga_ @ 10.660328
16 South_German_ @ 11.325769
17 Gagauz_ @ 12.901126
18 Dutch_ @ 13.012399
19 North_German_ @ 13.019816
20 Slovak_ @ 13.085639

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Balt_ +50% Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 2.803852
Seems like you caught me slacking now, shieet. Why the thumb down man..Out of order

[Carpatz]

I don't know which languages Illyrians used, but I am absolutely sure that Thracians (Ras) spoke Balto-Slavic languages and that Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians who are genetically homogeneous are those people.

Cause Thracian language is documented to some degree, Illyrian isn't.

Thracian language was clearly Balto-Slavic-like

balios (Thracian), baltus (Luthuanian), belo (Serbian), white (English)
zilma (Thracian), zelme (Latvian), zelen (Serbian), greens (English)
udra (Thracian), ūdra (Lithanian), vidra (Serbian), otter (English)
gin (Thracian), gnins (Latvian), gnjiti (Serbian), spoil, decay (English)
brink (Thracian), brinkti (Lithuanian), breknuti (Serbian), swell (English)
kiri (Thracian), giria, gire (Lithuanian), gora (Serbian), mountain forest (English)
saltas, zaldas (Thracian), zelt (Latvian), zlato (Serbian), gold (English)
zum, zuml (Thracian), zmaj, zmija (Serbian), dragon, snake (English)
laza (Thracian), laz, lazina (Serbian), clearing in forest (English)

[Dick]

Thracian language was clearly Balto-Slavic-like

balios (Thracian), baltus (Luthuanian), belo (Serbian), white (English)
zilma (Thracian), zelme (Latvian), zelen (Serbian), greens (English)
udra (Thracian), ūdra (Lithanian), vidra (Serbian), otter (English)
gin (Thracian), gnins (Latvian), gnjiti (Serbian), spoil, decay (English)
brink (Thracian), brinkti (Lithuanian), breknuti (Serbian), swell (English)
kiri (Thracian), giria, gire (Lithuanian), gora (Serbian), mountain forest (English)
saltas, zaldas (Thracian), zelt (Latvian), zlato (Serbian), gold (English)
zum, zuml (Thracian), zmaj, zmija (Serbian), dragon, snake (English)
laza (Thracian), laz, lazina (Serbian), clearing in forest (English)

Satem confirmed. What about Dacian?

[Kelmendasi]

Thracian language was clearly Balto-Slavic-like

balios (Thracian), baltus (Luthuanian), belo (Serbian), white (English)
zilma (Thracian), zelme (Latvian), zelen (Serbian), greens (English)
udra (Thracian), ūdra (Lithanian), vidra (Serbian), otter (English)
gin (Thracian), gnins (Latvian), gnjiti (Serbian), spoil, decay (English)
brink (Thracian), brinkti (Lithuanian), breknuti (Serbian), swell (English)
kiri (Thracian), giria, gire (Lithuanian), gora (Serbian), mountain forest (English)
saltas, zaldas (Thracian), zelt (Latvian), zlato (Serbian), gold (English)
zum, zuml (Thracian), zmaj, zmija (Serbian), dragon, snake (English)
laza (Thracian), laz, lazina (Serbian), clearing in forest (English)
It did share many similarities with Balto-Slavic. I would say it was much closer to Baltic than Slavic though. It's probable that other non-Hellenic Paleo-Balkan languages were similar to Balto-Slavic, this is going by the fact that Albanian shares similarities with that group and so does Daco-Thracian. Though I don't think we can say that it actually was a Balto-Slavic language.

[Bosniensis]

Satem confirmed. What about Dacian?

Dacians spoke two languages like people in Serbia.

In Serbia 15th century Latin and Serbian were both popular, but later Serbian was enforced while Latin discouraged (Church Schism issues etc..) eventually Latin speakers
were all been taken back in Serbian.

Dacians knew Slavic language, Vlad Dracula spoke Slavic language but a lot of people knew Latin and eventually they abandoned Slavic and became Latin-only, that could have happened in Serbia as well.

True language of Dacians before Roman Empire was Slavic, but they in remembrance of Trajan, Galerius and others contiuned speaking Latin.

[Kelmendasi]

http://www.kroraina.com/thrac_lang/thrac_9.html. I don't agree with the summary part, but it does give decent examples of cognates with Thracian

[Bosniensis]

http://www.kroraina.com/thrac_lang/thrac_9.html. I don't agree with the summary part, but it does give decent examples of cognates with Thracian

https://i.imgur.com/0oITg53.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/herHfb9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ngbDwfr.jpg

[Dick]

It did share many similarities with Balto-Slavic. I would say it was much closer to Baltic than Slavic though. It's probable that other non-Hellenic Paleo-Balkan languages were similar to Balto-Slavic, this is going by the fact that Albanian shares similarities with that group and so does Daco-Thracian. Though I don't think we can say that it actually was a Balto-Slavic language.

But today's so-called Slavs are Balto-Slavs basically. All Slavs, including southern Slavs, get a good chunk of Baltic admixture. Another example, Ruoka(Latvian), Ranka(Lithuanian), Ruka(Serbo-Croatian), Hand(English)

[Pribislav]

Knowing is a complete battle, there is nothing more to it. History is History and should be regarded as such.

Bosniaks and modern Serbs will never be a single ethnicity ever again, religious differences and historical wounds are beyond repair.

But as I said that should not be a reason not to cooperate on many levels. We do descend from the same group of people and history
and should fight together against those who want to steal it.

Cheers

Go back to Orthodoxy islamized Serbs, and we will be one again! :)

[Bosniensis]

Go back to Orthodoxy islamized Serbs, and we will be one again! :)

Let's not start that all over again. It's done, accept reality and move on.. .learn to live with people of different beliefs.

[Petros Houhoulis]

But today's so-called Slavs are Balto-Slavs basically. All Slavs, including southern Slavs, get a good chunk of Baltic admixture. Another example, Ruoka(Latvian), Ranka(Lithuanian), Ruka(Serbo-Croatian), Hand(English)

Yeah, sure... Plenty of the R1a haplotype in Serbia eh? No???

[Vojnik]

And the ancient Macedonian language was the same as the Thraco-Illyrian language. Which means modern Macedonians have a direct linguistic continuity with them. All sorted.

[Bosniensis]

Yeah, sure... Plenty of the R1a haplotype in Serbia eh? No???

Serbia I2 = 30%, EV13 = 20%, R1a = 15%, R1b = 10% + various others

Bosnia I2 = 55%, R1a = 15%, E1b = 13% + others

But those R1a has been absorbed into our community and our autosomal genepool they are not even remotely similar to modern Russians or Steppe people in general.

[Bosniensis]

And the ancient Macedonian language was the same as the Thraco-Illyrian language. Which means modern Macedonians have a direct linguistic continuity with them. All sorted.

Between Thracians and Hellenes there existed a mixed pass (Northern Greece, Southern Bulgaria, Western Anatolia) where Thracians, Hellenes and others lived together and Hellenic language dominated Thracian balto-slavic and anatolian languages. From these people Alexander Descended, he was both Balkan + Hellene something like Greek Vlachs.

[Papastratosels26]

Between Thracians and Hellenes there existed a mixed pass (Northern Greece, Southern Bulgaria, Western Anatolia) where Thracians, Hellenes and others lived together and Hellenic language dominated Thracian balto-slavic and anatolian languages. From these people Alexander Descended, he was both Balkan + Hellene something like Greek Vlachs.This time I agree with you

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Vojnik]

Plutarch wrote: "However, he [Alexander] did not get embarrassed, but jumped to his feet and began to call for his shield bearers in Macedonian, which was a sign of great danger, and ordered his trumpeter to blow the trumpet."

Quntus Curtius Rufus, "Then the king looked at him and said 'Macedonians will be your judges, and I ask you whether you will use their language before them? Besides Macedonians, there are many others here who, to my opinion, will understand what I am going to say, if I use the same language [Hellenic] you used, for no other reason except that, as I trust, my words are understood by the majority of those present. Do you see to what degree Philotas denies his father's language? He finds it repulisve to speak in that language!..but do not forget that he does not even respect his customs, or his own language.'" The implication is that his own language was not the Hellenic he was using.

'Plutarch, the Greek savant of the first and second centuries AD. when writing of Cleopatra (Life of Antony 27.3-4), the last of the Ptolemies (the Macedonian kings of Egypt), lauds her linguistic abilities, reporting that she could speak the languages of the Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabs, Syrians, Medes and Parthians. In contrast, her male predecessors had not even learned Egyptian and some had even "ceased to speak Macedonian".'

[Albobalboa]

And the ancient Macedonian language was the same as the Thraco-Illyrian language. Which means modern Macedonians have a direct linguistic continuity with them. All sorted.

South Slavic mental gymnastics are absolutely insane.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Plutarch wrote: "However, he [Alexander] did not get embarrassed, but jumped to his feet and began to call for his shield bearers in Macedonian, which was a sign of great danger, and ordered his trumpeter to blow the trumpet."

In the Macedonian dialect, yes he did.


Quntus Curtius Rufus, "Then the king looked at him and said 'Macedonians will be your judges, and I ask you whether you will use their language before them? Besides Macedonians, there are many others here who, to my opinion, will understand what I am going to say, if I use the same language [Hellenic] you used, for no other reason except that, as I trust, my words are understood by the majority of those present. Do you see to what degree Philotas denies his father's language? He finds it repulisve to speak in that language!..but do not forget that he does not even respect his customs, or his own language.'" The implication is that his own language was not the Hellenic he was using.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_Alexander_the_Great#Curtius


Curtius[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Historiography_of_Alexander_the_Gr eat&action=edit&section=6)]



Historiae Alexandri Magni, a biography of Alexander in ten books, of which the last eight survive, by the Roman historian Quintus Curtius Rufus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintus_Curtius_Rufus), written in the 1st century AD, and based largely on Cleitarchus through the mediation of Timagenes, with some material probably from Ptolemy. His work is fluidly written, but reveals ignorance of geography, chronology and technical military knowledge, focusing instead on character. According to Jona Lendering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jona_Lendering): ..the real subject was not Alexander, but the tyranny of Tiberius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius) and Caligula (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caligula). (It can be shown that Curtius Rufus' description of the trial of Philotas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philotas) is based on an incident during the reign of Tiberius)...Curtius copies Cleitarchus' mistakes, although he is not an uncritical imitator.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_Alexander_the_Great#cite_note-3)




'Plutarch, the Greek savant of the first and second centuries AD. when writing of Cleopatra (Life of Antony 27.3-4), the last of the Ptolemies (the Macedonian kings of Egypt), lauds her linguistic abilities, reporting that she could speak the languages of the Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabs, Syrians, Medes and Parthians. In contrast, her male predecessors had not even learned Egyptian and some had even "ceased to speak Macedonian".'

I can show you the Macedonian written by none other than Cleopatras' Macedonian ancestors in the Rosetta stone, ~150 years before Cleopatra VII:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Rosetta_Stone.JPG/1024px-Rosetta_Stone.JPG

Can you read it, or you'll need the support of Boshevski and Tentov? Make my day punk...

[Petros Houhoulis]

And the ancient Macedonian language was the same as the Thraco-Illyrian language. Which means modern Makedonishtanis have a direct linguistic continuity with them. All sorted.

What "Thraco-Illyrian language" you moron. Thracian and Illyrian were groups of different languages to begin with, most of which do not survive to this day. We don't know the exact relationship of Dacian and Thracian either...

Thracian still resembles Baltic a little bit more than Slavic, down to this day...

[Kamal900]

In the Macedonian dialect, yes he did.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_Alexander_the_Great#Curtius





I can show you the Macedonian written by none other than Cleopatras' Macedonian ancestors in the Rosetta stone, ~150 years before Cleopatra VII:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Rosetta_Stone.JPG/1024px-Rosetta_Stone.JPG

Can you read it, or you'll need the support of Boshevski and Tentov? Make my day punk...

Ouch..that's gotta hurt.

[ooops]

who cares about Illyrians and Thracians ? stupid and dead irrelevant tribes

[Pribislav]

Serbia I2 = 30%, EV13 = 20%, R1a = 15%, R1b = 10% + various others

Bosnia I2 = 55%, R1a = 15%, E1b = 13% + others

But those R1a has been absorbed into our community and our autosomal genepool they are not even remotely similar to modern Russians or Steppe people in general.

R1a is 18% in Serbia, I2a 34-35%, and E1b is 15%. Your data is outdated.
https://s31.postimg.cc/4w9ua17y3/image.png

In reality I2a can not be more than 45% in BiH, that 55% is outdated as well.
Only western Herzegovina could have 55% I2a due to hot spot of that haplogroup there.
https://forum.krstarica.com/cache-img/5/5/556e1f90b7209685d591910910cc9564.jpg

[Ujku]

This dude is trying so hard to convience himself that he is not a slav lol ...

[Bosniensis]

This dude is trying so hard to convience himself that he is not a slav lol ...

You are wrong there.

I am trying to explain to you moor who the slavs are.

[Ujku]

You are wrong there.

I am trying to explain to you moor who the slavs are.

People not from the Balkans orginally...

[ixulescu]

How about Strabon in his Book VII citing Aelius Sextus Cato says:

"Sed Getae unius Linguae cum Dacis erant. Edem utuntur cum Dacia lingua Getae. Thracia vero, seu Getica, seu Sarmatica."

"Gaetae had the same language as Dacians, truly Thracian, Dacian and Sarmatian"

Appendini is quoting Ovid namely his Elegian Book 3 (eleg 14.) where Ovid says that he learned Thracian and Scythian language and that
he can write words like Gaetae. Francesco Maria Appendini after further research concludes that:

"Sarmaticam vero fuisse eamdem ac Geticam, sic ille ostendit.." - Language of Sarmatians and Gaetae are the same.

and Ovid said: (Trist V, Eleg 12) "Jam didici Getice, Sarmaticque loqi" - I already learned two languages (of Gaetae and Sarmatian)

You can't denounce Ovid and Strabon as lunatics.


Nah. Sarmatians, Roxolans in particular, used to roam in Dacian lands. For sure many of them were bilingual.
This doesn't mean Dacians and Sarmatians spoke the same language.

[Vojnik]

People not from the Balkans orginally...

We all came from somewhere at one point in time.

[Bosniensis]

Nah. Sarmatians, Roxolans in particular, used to roam in Dacian lands. For sure many of them were bilingual.
This doesn't mean Dacians and Sarmatians spoke the same language.

You spoke Slavic langauge, Decebal spoke Balto-Slavic language, the reason you speak Romance is because of Romans, that is NOT your language.

300.000 people in Serbia and Bosnia spoke Romance language 1850 A.D. but they took back Balto-Slavic language not Latin, and they were not different people from us cause
OUR people learned Latin language.

All Romanians are Balto-Slavs, every single one... and your closest people are Serbs and Bulgarians who also speak their original language.

Strabon did not mistake.

[Vojnik]

Anyone ever wonder how the Slavic language group became so wide spread. Yet Greek and Albanian haven't gone anywhere? Not bad for a bunch of dumb barbarian Slavs ay?

[Ujku]

Anyone ever wonder how the Slavic language group became so wide spread. Yet Greek and Albanian haven't gone anywhere? Not bad for a bunch of dumb barbarian Slavs ay?

Greek was very spread at some point .. Languages spread when you have power and big numbers in this case slavs were settling like crazy anywhere they could find a decent place.

[Bosniensis]

Anyone ever wonder how the Slavic language group became so wide spread. Yet Greek and Albanian haven't gone anywhere? Not bad for a bunch of dumb barbarian Slavs ay?

Herodotus said: Thracians the most numerous people in Europe divided in Tribe? Was he talking about Albanians? or Balto-Slavic people?

Is Thracian language Balto-Slavic or Latin? = Balto-Slavic...

Why is that so big Problem? Why is that so hard to admit?

[Kelmendasi]

Herodotus said: Thracians the most numerous people in Europe divided in Tribe? Was he talking about Albanians? or Balto-Slavic people?

Is Thracian language Balto-Slavic or Latin? = Balto-Slavic...

Why is that so big Problem? Why is that so hard to admit?
You really think the Thracians were the most numerous people in the world at the time? Anyways Herodotus said that Thracians were the second most numerous group, after the Indians, but that's still dubious in my opinion. Balto-Slavic may have been close to Thracian but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was ancestral to Thracian or Dacian. Even if they were Balto-Slavic speakers whats your point? Still doesn't mean that modern South Slavs didn't migrate into the Balkans

[Bosniensis]

You really think the Thracians were the most numerous people in the world at the time? Anyways Herodotus said that Thracians were the second most numerous group, after the Indians, but that's still dubious in my opinion. Balto-Slavic may have been close to Thracian but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was ancestral to Thracian or Dacian. Even if they were Balto-Slavic speakers whats your point? Still doesn't mean that modern South Slavs didn't migrate into the Balkans

If Thracians are Balto-Slavs who ruled from Greece to Scandinavia (according to several narrations) then if One group came from Poland? Who are they?

The same people that moved there from Balkans.

This was all BALTO-SLAVIC in Ancient History:

https://i.imgur.com/YIzg6AH.jpg

[Kelmendasi]

If Thracians are Balto-Slavs who ruled from Greece to Scandinavia (according to several narrations) then if One group came from Poland? Who are they?

The same people that moved there from Balkans.

This was all BALTO-SLAVIC in Ancient History:

[MG]https://i.imgur.com/YIzg6AH.jpg[/IMG]
lol

[Bosniensis]

lol

You laugh to most prominent world historians, but when some lunatic from Albania write how Albanians are the greatest people ever then you applaud him without a single document.

I have 100 narrations of the most prominent historical persons, documents, evidences ... everything. You got Nothing... yet you have the balls to reply with "LOL"... that's all you can do... "LOL" as much as you wish....

[Kelmendasi]

You laugh to most prominent world historians, but when some lunatic from Albania write how Albanians are the greatest people ever then you applaud him without a single document.

I have 100 narrations of the most prominent historical persons, documents, evidences ... everything. You got Nothing... yet you have the balls to reply with "LOL"... that's all you can do... "LOL" as much as you wish....
kek

[Dick]

If Thracians are Balto-Slavs who ruled from Greece to Scandinavia (according to several narrations) then if One group came from Poland? Who are they?

The same people that moved there from Balkans.

This was all BALTO-SLAVIC in Ancient History:

https://i.imgur.com/YIzg6AH.jpg

Dont forget the Veneti, probably Romanized Slavs

[Joso]

dianrids

[Bosniensis]

Dont forget the Veneti, probably Romanized Slavs

Yeah probably... mixing with Latin people cost us dearly.....

Video everyone should watch


https://youtu.be/wxjwMKqkeAM

[ixulescu]

You spoke Slavic langauge, Decebal spoke Balto-Slavic language, the reason you speak Romance is because of Romans, that is NOT your language.

It is possible that Dacian had some commonality with proto-Baltic. But saying that they were the same it's a huge jump I'm not willing to take.

The link between proto-Baltic and proto-Slavic is disputed.
Common characteristics are not more extensive than those found in the Balkan sprachbund, which we know, groups distinct language families.


your closest people are Serbs and Bulgarians who also speak their original language.


The first part is true, the second isn't. Thraco-Dacian was nowhere close to proto-Slavic.
All we have left from Thraco-Dacian are names, and they don't resemble anything Slavic.

[Bosniensis]

It is possible that Dacian had some commonality with proto-Baltic. But saying that they were the same it's huge jump I'm not willing to take.

The link between proto-Baltic and proto-Slavic is disputed.
Common characteristics are not more extensive than those found in the Balkan sprachbund, which we know, groups distinct language families.



70 words from Thracian is still in use in Serbia you have the list here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?230063-Thracian-vs-South-Slavic-(many-words-comparison)

Not any words, but everyday words.

Thracian was not Baltic it was Balto-Slavic mix and all south slavs are both Balts and native Balkan mixed.

I Score 50% Baltic + 50% Italian Abruzzo and 80% Romanian.

So you see... Baltic = Slavic, only language is different.




The first part is true, the second isn't. Thraco-Dacian was nowhere close to proto-Slavic.
All we have left from Thraco-Dacian are names, and they don't resemble anything Slavic.

We don't know anything from Proto-Slavic, I think it never existed, it was Proto Balto-Slavic and that modern Baltic
shifted the most away from Balto-Slavic langauge.

From Thraco-Dacian we have a lot of things, we don't have sentences but we have words and we still use them.

Check that link

[ixulescu]

70 words from Thracian is still in use in Serbia you have the list here:
Not any words, but everyday words.


No, that's incorrect.
What we have are lists of reconstructed words from names, because only names can be identified with precision as belonging to Thracians or Dacians. Some other various short inscriptions survived, but they cannot positively be identified as Thracian or Dacian.

Here's a list of reconstructed Dacian words:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reconstructed_Dacian_words

Some of these words map to Lithuanian, but links to Slavic languages are most likely loans or older PIE words.

[Aspar]

Bosniensis, the great fighter for the right to be native in the Balkans...
Descendant of a Thracian spermatozoon caring the I-S17250 mutation...

[Bosniensis]

Bosniensis, the great fighter for the right to be native in the Balkans...
Descendant of a Thracian spermatozoon caring the I-S17250 mutation...

Not Balkans, EUROPE!

Yes, and all I2 haplogroups in Europe are my ancestors, the only European Haplogroup.

You share haplogroup with Africans.

[Bosniensis]

No, that's incorrect.
What we have are lists of reconstructed words from names, because only names can be identified with precision as belonging to Thracians or Dacians. Some other various short inscriptions survived, but they cannot positively be identified as Thracian or Dacian.

Here's a list of reconstructed Dacian words:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reconstructed_Dacian_words

Some of these words map to Lithuanian, but links to Slavic languages are most likely loans or older PIE words.

Do you consider yourself to be Foreigner in Romania that conquered a land from Dacians and Thracians?

[Dick]

Not Balkans, EUROPE!

Yes, and all I2 haplogroups in Europe are my ancestors, the only European Haplogroup.

You share haplogroup with Africans.
Not i2= not european

[Aspar]

Not Balkans, EUROPE!

Yes, and all I2 haplogroups in Europe are my ancestors, the only European Haplogroup.

You share haplogroup with Africans.

But I want to be a Thracian ...........

[Bosniensis]

Not i2= not european

Yeah the only European Haplogroup I2 that colonized Europe from Balkans is being called non-Balkan from a guy who carries African haplogroup.

[Dick]

Yeah the only European Haplogroup I2 that colonized Europe from Balkans is being called non-Balkan from a guy who carries African haplogroup.

William Wallace was i2a2. A true doggerlander and european

[ixulescu]

Do you consider yourself to be Foreigner in Romania that conquered a land from Dacians and Thracians?

Romanians are a mix of proto-Balkanites (Bronze age, not earlier) with people that came later, including Slavs.

[Bosniensis]

William Wallace was i2a2. A true doggerlander and european

Scottish Gaelic: Uilleam Uallas

Gaels of Scotland = Celts

Proto-Europeans

[Bosniensis]

Romanians are a mix of proto-Balkanites (Bronze age, not earlier) with people that came later, including Slavs.

Slavs appeared in 6th century as a single tribe, not a people.

Georgius Gemistus Pletho 1450 A.D. when Serbian Roman Empress Helena Dragases died he said: "Our Dear Empress was a Thracian women"

He didn't said SLAVIC WOMEN.

[Ryuk]

I can't believe this bullshit is still discussed.Illyrians have been proved both linguistically and historically as Albanians ancestors.


Albanian words that Cognate with Illyrian

Andena/Andes/Andio/Antis — personal Illyrian names based on a root-word and- or ant-, found in both the southern and the Dalmatian-Pannonian (including modern Bosnia and Herzegovina) onomastic provinces; cf. Alb. andë (northern Albanian dialect, or Gheg) and ëndë (southern Albanian dialect or Tosk) “appetite, pleasure, desire, wish”; Andi proper name, Andizetes, an Illyrian people inhabiting the Roman province of Panonia.
aran “field”; cf. Alb. arë; plural ara
Ardiaioi/Ardiaei, name of an Illyrian people, cf. Alb. ardhja “arrival” or “descent”, connected to hardhi “vine-branch, grape-vine”, with a sense development similar to Germanic *stamniz, meaning both stem, tree stalk and tribe, lineage. However, the insufficiency of this theory is that so far there is no certainty as to the historical or etymological development of either ardhja/hardhi or Ardiaioi, as with many other words.
Bilia “daughter”; cf. Alb. bijë, dial. bilë
Bindo/Bindus, an Illyrian deity from Bihać, Bosnia and Herzegovina; cf. Alb. bind “to convince” or “to make believe”, përbindësh “monster”.
bounon, “hutt, cottage”; cf. Alb bun.
brisa, “husk of grapes”; cf. Alb bërsí “lees, dregs; mash” ( < PA *brutiā)
Barba- “swamp”, a toponym from Metubarbis; possibly related to Alb. bërrakë “swampy soil”
can- “dog”; related to Alb. qen
Daesitiates, a name of an Illyrian people, cf. Alb. dash “ram”, corresponding contextually with south Slavonic dasa “ace”, which might represent a borrowing and adaptation from Illyrian (or some other ancient language).
mal, “mountain”; cf. Alb mal
bardi, “white”; cf. Alb bardhë
drakoina “supper”; cf. Alb. darke, dreke
drenis, “deer”; cf. Alb dre, dreni
delme “sheep”; cf. Alb dele, Gheg dialect delme
dard, “pear”; cf. Alb dardhë
Hyllus (the name of an Illyrian king); cf. Alb. yll (hyll in some northern dialects) “star”, also Alb. hyj “god”, Ylli proper name.
sīca, “dagger”; cf. Alb thikë or thika “knife”
Ulc-, “wolf” (pln. Ulcinium); cf. Alb ujk “wolf”, ulk (Northern Dialect)
loúgeon, “pool”; cf. Alb lag, legen “to wet, soak, bathe, wash” ( < PA *lauga), lëgatë “pool” ( < PA *leugatâ), lakshte “dew” ( < PA laugista)
mag- “great”; cf. Alb. i madh “big , great”
mantía “bramblebush”; Old and dial. Alb mandë “berry, mulberry” (mod. Alb mën, man)
rhinos, “fog, mist”; cf. Old Alb ren “cloud” (mod. Alb re, rê) ( < PA *rina)
Vendum “place”; cf. Proto-Alb. wen-ta (Mod. Alb. vend)

[Bosniensis]

I can't believe this bullshit is still discussed.Illyrians have been proved both linguistically and historically as Albanians ancestors.

Illyrians were the Master Sailors, explain the missing word-list in Albanian language for Sea Warfare. You had to import Greek and Italian words for it, but guess what...

Croatians have so much words that it's crazy to count them....

"ILLYRIANS" E1b illyrians.

That's even funny to discuss about.

[Ujku]

LOL i just now realised that he wrote this in the Albanian section...

[Aspar]

William Wallace was i2a2. A true doggerlander and european

I-L621 is a great haplo, I-CTS10228 mutation is even more because of the interesting story behind it and how it survived many invasions and other natural obstacles, to make a spectacular come back and explode after a long bottle neck, somewhere in the Carpathian basin!
But the "Thracian" here doesn't understand that this haplo was found mostly in North and North-Western Europe so far and the Yfull tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/
perfectly shows where the most ancient descendant of I-CTS10228 was somewhere in Germany, probably north!
Other brother clades are found mostly in Western Europe and British isles as well!
What happened most probably is that with the Hallstatt invasion from the south, a tribe caring the I-CTS10228 mutation was probably pushed east, in Poland!
This tribe, could have been the Bastarnae or some other tribe like Lugi!
Interesting enough, there was also a tribe called Lugi in Scotland, and in the British isles we can find some clades of I-L621!
We don't know what language they could have spoken...
But after that, the tribe or a group of people from the tribe, migrated to Western Ukraine, where it merged with the tribes of Venedi and others caring various R1a subclades, but also most probably with some Dacian tribes as well, thus making the Slavs!

[Ryuk]

Illyrians were the Master Sailors, explain the missing word-list in Albanian language for Sea Warfare. You had to import Greek and Italian words for it, but guess what...

Croatians have so much words that it's crazy to count them....

"ILLYRIANS" E1b illyrians.

That's even funny to discuss about.


Even the name Albanian is of some dispute. It appears at the first time in the 2nd c. AD in Late Greek as Albanoí (later Byz Gk Arbanitai) and thereafter in similar forms, including obsolete Albanian Arbër/Arbën; however, these last two stem directly from Vulgar Latin *Albanus, most likely borrowed from Greek Albanoí; the adjective too, arbëresh/arbënesh, are derived from Latin albanensis. This same name appears in Slavic and was used to name the town of Labëri "Laberia", from South Slavic labanĭja, from earlier *olbanĭja.

While it is thought that Albanians originated in the Balkans, the exact location from which they spread out is hard to pinpoint. Despite varied claims, the Albanians almost certainly came from slightly farther north (Kosovo) and inland (Northwest Macedonia) than would suggest the present borders of Albania, with a homeland concentrated in the mountains. The purely linguistic reasons are listed below.
First, . Albanian has few early Greek borrowings, most of which are from the Northwest dialect, probably via the islands off the coast of Albania , e.g. WGk (Doric) mākhaná gave Alb mokër "mill" and WGk drápanon gave Alb drapër "sickle".
Similarly, the Illyrian coast is not a likely source since Albanian has no inherited nautical or indigenous sea-faring terminology, and has instead supplemented this absence with subsequent borrowing from Latin or Greek or recent metaphorical lexical creations.
Third, toponyms along the coast, in contrast with native penultimate accent (ex: mbësë "niece" < PA nepō'tia), often show substratal antepenultimate accent (ex: Durrës < Dúrrhachium; Pojanë < Apóllonia), though there are some exceptions (Vlorë < Aulónā vs. Greek Aúlon).
Also, some consider Albanian to be the source for a small number of grammatical and lexical similarities shared by otherwise dissimilar languages including Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian, and to some extent Greek. Based on their extent of grammaticalization, these include: the postposition of articles, the presence and grammatical use of schwa, object reduplication, admirative through verbal constructions, and the loss of infinitives.
Finally, few if any Proto-Albanian place names exist in what was the former Roman province of Illyria.
Instead, given the overwhelming amount of shepherding and mountaineering vocabulary as well as the extensive influence of Latin, it is more likely the Albanians come from north of the Jireček Line, on the Latin-speaking side, perhaps in part from the late Roman province of Dardania from the western Balkans.

However, archaeology has more convincingly pointed to the early Byzantine province of Praevitana (modern northern Albania) which shows an area where a primarily shepherding, transhumance population of Illyrians retained their culture. This area was based in the Mat district and the region of high mountains in Northern Albania, as well as in Dukagjin, Mirditë, and the mountains of Drin, from where the population would descend in the summer to the lowlands of western Albania, the Black Drin (Drin i zi) river valley, and into parts of Old Serbia.

Indeed, the region's complete lack of Latin place names seems to imply little latinization of any kind and a more likely spot for the early medieval heart of Albanian territory, following the collapse of the Illyrian province.

[Dick]

I wonder if that french person is actually french



I-L621 is a great haplo, I-CTS10228 mutation is even more because of the interesting story behind it and how it survived many invasions and other natural obstacles, to make a spectacular come back and explode after a long bottle neck, somewhere in the Carpathian basin!
But the "Thracian" here doesn't understand that this haplo was found mostly in North and North-Western Europe so far and the Yfull tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/
perfectly shows where the most ancient descendant of I-CTS10228 was somewhere in Germany, probably north!
Other brother clades are found mostly in Western Europe and British isles as well!
What happened most probably is that with the Hallstatt invasion from the south, a tribe caring the I-CTS10228 mutation was probably pushed east, in Poland!
This tribe, could have been the Bastarnae or some other tribe like Lugi!
Interesting enough, there was also a tribe called Lugi in Scotland, and in the British isles we can find some clades of I-L621!
We don't know what language they could have spoken...
But after that, the tribe or a group of people from the tribe, migrated to Western Ukraine, where it merged with the tribes of Venedi and others caring various R1a subclades, but also most probably with some Dacian tribes as well, thus making the Slavs!

[Papastratosels26]

Slavs appeared in 6th century as a single tribe, not a people.

Georgius Gemistus Pletho 1450 A.D. when Serbian Roman Empress Helena Dragases died he said: "Our Dear Empress was a Thracian women"

He didn't said SLAVIC WOMEN.This

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Kelmendasi]

Illyrians were the Master Sailors, explain the missing word-list in Albanian language for Sea Warfare. You had to import Greek and Italian words for it, but guess what...

Croatians have so much words that it's crazy to count them....

"ILLYRIANS" E1b illyrians.

That's even funny to discuss about.
"Master sailors" sure the ones on the coast may have been, but you going to tell me that tribes like the Dardani, Albani, Autariatae etc were sailors? There were multiple Illyric tribes that had no contact with the sea and only occupied the inland areas of the western Balkans. There are a few maritime words in Albanian that are native, the word for sea itself is native. Bozzy you're not even a good troll anymore, you've become a broken record ngl

[Kelmendasi]

I wonder if that french person is actually french
I heard that the French guy is actually of German origin from Alsace

[Dick]

Wow


I heard that the French guy is actually of German origin from Alsace

[Voskos]

Still sucking Albanian dick, brother Bosniensis?