Is Gracile-Med More Italian or Iberian?

[Joso]

http://i50.tinypic.com/18eonk.png

[Silver Lining]

Iberia, Western Mediterreanean Islands and Southern Italy is the Gracile Med core. Despite what Iberians will try to tell you (muh Atlanto-Med...).

[Joso]

Iberia, Western Mediterreanean Islands and Southern Italy is the Gracile Med core. Despite what Iberians will try to tell you (muh Atlanto-Med...).

Thanks. I added a poll btw

[Mr. Anybody]

I’m not very interested in classifications,as known..however,based on my observations,I would say that Gracile-Meds often looks more western-northwestern to me bro.

[Joso]

I’m not very interested in classifications,as known..however,based on my observations,I would say that Gracile-Meds often looks more western-northwestern to me bro.

Thanks

[PT Tagus]

The pure Gracile-Med is common in Iberia. There is dinaric admixture in Italy.

[Papastratosels26]

Italian

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[Bogdan]

Almost intermediate, overlap from Iberia.

[averagedude]

Both

[Regnera]

More Italian,especially the south

[Token]

Iberians. Italy has too much Dinaric influence.

[MobyD]

Iberian for sure.

[Joso]

Iberians. Italy has too much Dinaric influence.

Even in the south?

[Joso]

More Italian,especially the south

I think that too, places like Scicily seens to have lot of gracile-meds

[Token]

Even in the south?

Not Dinaric proper, but something Dinaric like. From TRoE:

The southern Italians, as this survey will indicate, are a distinctive group of people who will not fall into any one recognized racial category. Besides conventional Mediterraneans and Alpines there are two special types which are particularly common, and will be familiar to anyone living in Italian sections of the United States, as well as to anyone who has visited southern Italy. These are: (1) a coarse Mediterranean, short-statured, thick-limbed, mesocephalic, possessing a narrow forehead, wide malars, heavy browridges, a short, broad, straight or lightly concave nose with upturned tip, a strong jaw, and some prognathism; (2) a local approximation to an Armenoid, short-statured, especially thick-set and short-necked, with a flattened occiput, dome-shaped lateral vault profile, heavy browridges, a high-rooted, high-bridged, thick-tipped and depressed-tipped nose, and an especially prominent jaw.

[Joso]

Not Dinaric proper, but something Dinaric like. From TRoE:

The southern Italians, as this survey will indicate, are a distinctive group of people who will not fall into any one recognized racial category. Besides conventional Mediterraneans and Alpines there are two special types which are particularly common, and will be familiar to anyone living in Italian sections of the United States, as well as to anyone who has visited southern Italy. These are: (1) a coarse Mediterranean, short-statured, thick-limbed, mesocephalic, possessing a narrow forehead, wide malars, heavy browridges, a short, broad, straight or lightly concave nose with upturned tip, a strong jaw, and some prognathism; (2) a local approximation to an Armenoid, short-statured, especially thick-set and short-necked, with a flattened occiput, dome-shaped lateral vault profile, heavy browridges, a high-rooted, high-bridged, thick-tipped and depressed-tipped nose, and an especially prominent jaw.

The first descprition sounds like berid/paleo-sardinian. There seens to be lot of paleo-sardinains in southern Italy too, yes.
I think my grandmother was like a mix of berid and this dinarid-like type that this author described

[Joso]

Not Dinaric proper, but something Dinaric like. From TRoE:

The southern Italians, as this survey will indicate, are a distinctive group of people who will not fall into any one recognized racial category. Besides conventional Mediterraneans and Alpines there are two special types which are particularly common, and will be familiar to anyone living in Italian sections of the United States, as well as to anyone who has visited southern Italy. These are: (1) a coarse Mediterranean, short-statured, thick-limbed, mesocephalic, possessing a narrow forehead, wide malars, heavy browridges, a short, broad, straight or lightly concave nose with upturned tip, a strong jaw, and some prognathism; (2) a local approximation to an Armenoid, short-statured, especially thick-set and short-necked, with a flattened occiput, dome-shaped lateral vault profile, heavy browridges, a high-rooted, high-bridged, thick-tipped and depressed-tipped nose, and an especially prominent jaw.

btw do you think this dinarid-like type is baskid or baskid influenced?

[Sacrificed Ram]

The original Gracilemeds were the natufians of Levant...
http://humanphenotypes.net/GracileMediterranid.html
Who is closer with Levant?

[Joso]

The original Gracilemeds were the natufians of Levant...
http://humanphenotypes.net/GracileMediterranid.html
Who is closer with Levant?

Southern Italians?

[Seth MacFarlane]

Both but I’d say specifically Portuguese and southernmost Italians/Sicilians are most gracile med

[Joso]

Both but I’d say specifically Portuguese and southernmost Italians/Sicilians are most gracile med

I agree about Southern Italians but i don't know about Portuguese

[Joso]

bump

[The Blade]

Observed in both areas, most typical for Southern Italy.

[Chaos One]

I think Spain, especially Southern Spain. Although of course you can find it on all Western Mediterranean, including Northern Berber areas.

[Token]

btw do you think this dinarid-like type is baskid or baskid influenced?

Nope. As you know, i always try to conciliate anthropology with genetics. Population genetics is a exact science, anthropology isn't, so genetics always takes precedence over anthropology. With that said, in my opinion this Armenoid or Dinaric-like form has a lot to do with the wave of Caucasus-related admixture that made it into Europe after the agricultural revolution, not only in Italy but all over Europe. Balkan's Dinaric also probably has something to do with this wave.

[Joso]

Nope. As you know, i always try to conciliate anthropology with genetics. Population genetics is a exact science, anthropology isn't, so genetics always takes precedence over anthropology. With that said, in my opinion this Armenoid or Dinaric-like form has a lot to do with the wave of Caucasus-related admixture that made it into Europe after the agricultural revolution, not only in Italy but all over Europe. Balkan's Dinaric also probably has something to do with this wave.

Ok, thanks. But anthropology is exactly science too though and as important as is genetics

[Token]

Ok, thanks. But anthropology is exactly science too though and as important as is genetics

Anthropology isn't a exact science. I agree that it is as important if not more important than genetics, but physical anthropology specifically was pretty much replaced by population genetics. It still survives in places like Russia, but spend one day reading recent Russian or American physical anthropology papers and see in practice how genetics today is who dictates the rhythm of the game.

[Joso]

Anthropology isn't a exact science. I agree that it is as important if not more important than genetics, but physical anthropology specifically was pretty much replaced by population genetics. It still survives in places like Russia, but spend one day reading recent Russian or American physical anthropology papers and see in practice how genetics today is who dictates the rhythm of the game.

I agree to same degree but just because it is not too praticed nowadays it means nothing, it probably have to do with political correctness

[Chaos One]

Nope. As you know, i always try to conciliate anthropology with genetics. Population genetics is a exact science, anthropology isn't, so genetics always takes precedence over anthropology. With that said, in my opinion this Armenoid or Dinaric-like form has a lot to do with the wave of Caucasus-related admixture that made it into Europe after the agricultural revolution, not only in Italy but all over Europe. Balkan's Dinaric also probably has something to do with this wave.

Do you think Gracile Meds differ from other Meds (except African ones) because North African genetic influence? I mean, it's interesting how Graclie Meds are more common at Southern Spain and Southern Italy, areas where some minor NAfri genetic exists.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Iberia, Western Mediterreanean Islands and Southern Italy is the Gracile Med core. Despite what Iberians will try to tell you (muh Atlanto-Med...).

Imo Iberian countries have a higher percentage of both gracile meds and atlanto meds than Italy, the later having a strong dinaroid and alpinoid influence.

Meh. There you go, so far 2 Iberians answered and already 2 "muh gracile-med". ;)

[Cernunnos]

It's also called Ibero-Insular for a reason.....

[Blinddignity]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Stephen_Maguire%2C_Ronnie_O%E2%80%99Sullivan%2C_an d_Michaela_Tabb_at_German_Masters_Snooker_Final_%2 8DerHexer%29_2012-02-05_05_cropped.jpg

[Token]

I agree to same degree but just because it is not too praticed nowadays it means nothing, it probably have to do with political correctness

This classic argument of political correctness having infected modern science is silly and only used by peanut brain alt-rights. Western academy is actually the least politically correct and least biased academic scene of the world. Western academics don't hesitate in telling you how true is the idea of European pastoralists ravaging and replacing the language and culture of brown Dravidians in South Asia - basically validating Nazi's wet dream - and, at the same time, don't hesitate in telling you how modern-day Europeans are basically the mestizo fruits of plague-bringing steppe cowboys raping innocent European farmer women.

[PT Tagus]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Stephen_Maguire%2C_Ronnie_O%E2%80%99Sullivan%2C_an d_Michaela_Tabb_at_German_Masters_Snooker_Final_%2 8DerHexer%29_2012-02-05_05_cropped.jpg


Ronnie O'Sullivan

Interesting mixture: Gracile-Med + Keltic-Nordid + slightly dinaric (nose area)

[Joso]

This classic argument of political correctness having infected modern science is silly and only used by peanut brain alt-rights. Western academy is actually the least politically correct and least biased academic scene of the world. Western academics don't hesitate in telling you how true is the idea of European pastoralists ravaging and replacing the language and culture of brown Dravidians in South Asia - basically validating Nazi's wet dream - and, at the same time, don't hesitate in telling you how modern-day Europeans are basically the mestizo fruits of plague-bringing steppe cowboys raping innocent European farmer women.

I am not talking about scientists much, mainly about the media. Talk about anthropology which average people and most of them will think it is "racist' or something

[Erronkari]

Ronnie O'Sullivan

Interesting mixture: Gracile-Med + Keltic-Nordid + slightly dinaric (nose area)

Excellent classification! Congrats!
Indeed, he isn't pure Gracile Med.

[PT Tagus]

Excellent classification! Congrats!
Indeed, he isn't pure Gracile Med.

Yes. Only his skull shape is Gracil-Med. The elements of the face (except the nose) towards to Keltic-Nordid.

I am not pure Gracil-Med too.


thank you.

[Seth MacFarlane]

Imo Iberian countries have a higher percentage of both gracile meds and atlanto meds than Italy, the later having a strong dinaroid and alpinoid influence.



I was gonna say this also , you can find MANY atlanto meds and gracile meds in Italy too it’s just that Italy is more diverse imo

[Erronkari]

Yes. Only his skull shape is Gracil-Med. The elements of the face (except the nose) towards to Keltic-Nordid.

I am not pure Gracil-Med too.


thank you.

Indeed you seem to have Alpinid too and also an Atlantid vibe. You look very north-western iberian.

[Latinus]

Indeed you seem to have Alpinid too and also an Atlantid vibe. You look very north-western iberian.

Is PT Tagus common in Argentina? He is common among white Brazilians.

[Zroota]

Although Italians have a lot of Dinaro-Meds and Alpines, they're still more inclined to have Gracile Meds than Iberia, especially the south. Iberians and western Europeans in general are much more robust and are atlanto-meds in general (alongside Baskids, Atlantids, Berids, etc).

In a nutshell, just because Italy has non-gracile med types that doesn't mean Iberia now has more gracile meds. :confused:

[Erronkari]

Is PT Tagus common in Argentina? He is common among white Brazilians.

Sure, very common phenotype here.
The region which have sent more immigrant is Galicia, and they are quite similar of porruguese people.

[Joso]

Is PT Tagus common in Argentina? He is common among white Brazilians.

Mostly about colonial Brazilians, descendants of recent immigrations look more northern

[Erronkari]

Mostly about colonial Brazilians, descendants of recent immigrations look more northern

But he looks northern indeed.
He doesn't look "wog" at all...

[Erronkari]

Mostly about colonial Brazilians, descendants of recent immigrations look more northern

Colonial ones were more azorean???

[McCloskey]

Mostly about colonial Brazilians, descendants of recent immigrations look more northern

Depends on the type of immigrant. South Italians and many North Italians look no different from Colonial Brazilians.

Footballer Rivellino is fully Italian from both sides and is very common in Brazil:

https://excentricopsicopata.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/roberto-rivelino-football-228.jpg?w=700

[PT Tagus]

The brazilian actor Thiago Rodrigues is a good example of (almost pure) Gracile-Med, imo.


https://www.altoastral.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/thiago_rodrigues_materia.jpg

http://fw.atarde.uol.com.br/2017/11/750_2017116115155668.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jowDxNS.png

http://s.glbimg.com/og/rg/f/original/2010/04/26/fe606.jpg


Thiago Corrêa Lima de Azevedo Rodrigues

Certainly he has Portuguese ancestors.

[McCloskey]

Thiago Corrêa Lima de Azevedo Rodrigues

Certainly he has Portuguese ancestors.

Well, almost all Brazilians have some Portuguese ancestors down the line, the only exceptions are the ones who descend fully from immigrant communities in the countryside.

This guy is certainly predominantly Portuguese and is likely more than 80-90% Portuguese.

[McCloskey]

Colonial ones were more azorean???

No. Predominantly European Colonial Brazilians descend mostly from the Portuguese mainland, especially from the Northern portion of Portugal.

[Latinus]

Mostly about colonial Brazilians, descendants of recent immigrations look more northern
I don't know what you're talking about.

[Latinus]

But he looks northern indeed.
He doesn't look "wog" at all...

Neither you.

[Sikeliot]

Most Iberians are Atlantid/AtlantoMed.

[Joso]

But he looks northern indeed.
He doesn't look "wog" at all...

By northern i mean Northen and Central European phenotypes( influding alpines and dinarids). Med is not a northern phenotype
Meds in Brazil are generally colonial

[Erronkari]

More Italian,especially the south


By northern i mean Northen and Central European phenotypes( influding alpines and dinarids). Med is not a northern phenotype

Oh ok friend... I understood. I thought you were talking about mediterranean spectrum.

[Erronkari]

Neither you.

Probably not totally but may be more intermediate. :p

[Sebastianus Rex]

I was gonna say this also , you can find MANY atlanto meds and gracile meds in Italy too it’s just that Italy is more diverse imo

Sure, Italy has a larger population, by absolute number has probably nearly as many gracile-meds and atlanto-meds as Iberia, but percentage wise must have less because of a significant percentage of dinarics and alpines, besides often the Italian meds are mixed with those 2 types.

[Davy Jones's Locker]

Imo Iberian countries have a higher percentage of both gracile meds and atlanto meds than Italy, the later having a strong dinaroid and alpinoid influence.


Sure, Italy has a larger population, by absolute number has probably nearly as many gracile-meds and atlanto-meds as Iberia, but percentage wise must have less because of a significant percentage of dinarics and alpines, besides often the Italian meds are mixed with those 2 types.


That was essentially the opinion of anthropologist Madison Grant.


The prevailing lack of true race consciousness is probably due to the fact that every important nation in Europe, as at present organized, with the sole exception of the Iberian and Scandinavian states, possesses in large proportions representatives of at least two of the fundamental European subspecies of man and of all manner of crosses between them.

[Joso]

That was essentially the opinion of anthropologist Madison Grant.

cool