Vote: Gracile-Meds or Atlanto-Meds ?

[Sebastianus Rex]

Just curious to see how most of our members distinguish between the Gracile-Meds and Atlanto-Meds, if they go mostly by pigmentation factors or by actual anthropometric measures and skull shape.

3 examples, all are Portuguese, 2 actors and 1 actress

All togheter:
https://scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/8862ad1a040db2ef17696c92075948b2/5CAF6794/t51.2885-15/e35/41389799_313420296058005_6007431931566015200_n.jpg ?se=8&ig_cache_key=MTg3NzAwNDY1NTg4ODg4MzA2OQ%3D%3D.2

1. Carloto Cotta
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/07/46/02/07460260b15b98f0a693731526d0c275.jpg

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/5DaSmAkpwk9TOh7JIAMsrBRyYhk.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/owjjvbjn-bc/maxresdefault.jpg


2. Filipe Vargas
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/prd-elite-photos/models/58e28ab465d3c.jpeg

https://bonsrapazes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1378776_671265389571516_1126115271_n.jpg

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/52ba7cbe12874551d37951a2964d77ca/5CD6EEC6/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s750x750/17077400_648992918621436_4132845633629323264_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com&ig_cache_key=MTQ2MTg0NzA1NDM1MTIyMzk5OA%3D%3D.2


3. Anabela Moreira
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/prd-elite-photos/models/58adcbb1e6f79.jpg

https://www.delas.pt/files/2016/07/anabela-moreira-meio.jpg

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/actress-anabela-moreira-arrives-at-the-special-screening-of-holy-picture-id155435403?s=612x612

[Sikeliot]

Atlanto-Med.

[Zuh]

I think mixture of both trans-med

[Cernunnos]

First two Atlanto Med (first one is Atlantid), third Gracile.

[Joso]

First two Atlanto Med (first one is Atlantid), third Gracile.

This

[Khamzat]

First two Atlanto Med (first one is Atlantid), third Gracile.
^

[LawrenceMartinez]

The two guys are Atlanto-Med, she is Gracile

[PT Tagus]

1) Atlanto-Med or Atlanto-Med + CM (first picture)

2) Atlanto-Med

3) Gracile-Med

[Latinus]

Some say the Atlanto has lighter skin and smaller eyes, is that right?
I go by skull structure. If I see someone very long headed with sharper features I pressume to be the Atlanto variety.

[GreentheViper]

First two Atlanto-Meds, third is Gracile imo

[Joso]

Some say the Atlanto has lighter skin and smaller eyes, is that right?
I go by skull structure. If I see someone very long headed with sharper features I pressume to be the Atlanto variety.

Yes, gracile-meds have bigger eyes, it is a gracile caractheristic but i don't know about skin collor

[Sebastianus Rex]

First two Atlanto Med (first one is Atlantid), third Gracile.

Why Atlantid and not Atlanto-Med ?

[de Burgh II]

1st: Atlantid

2nd: Atlanto-med

3rd: Gracile med

[Cernunnos]

Why Atlantid and not Atlanto-Med ?

He seems to be a bit more Nordic than the second guy. Something like the jaw area and the eye region. There is a Nordic element in him.

[nightrider+]

As if anyone knows the difference. The second man looks more classic med than the first but not that he's more gracile or anything. In Coon's plates pretty much the only difference between med and atlanto-med is height.

[Sebastianus Rex]

He seems to be a bit more Nordic than the second guy. Something like the jaw area and the eye region. There is a Nordic element in him.

If you mean that his jaw is more robust/square that the 2nd guy, that is a exactly an Atlanto-Med trait and not Nordid.

Another thing I don't get is why the woman gets Gracile Med and the guys don't, when in the pic they are 3 togheter we can see that her head is not smaller than the guy next to her (and bear in mind she's a woman).

[Sebastianus Rex]

As if anyone knows the difference. The second man looks more classic med than the first but not that he's more gracile or anything. In Coon's plates pretty much the only difference between med and atlanto-med is height.

But Coon was not the only anthropologist, he had a rather broad definition of the Atlanto-Med type. Some distinguish the two types not only because of height but also the Atlanto-Med having a stronger CM component and having a higher skull, while graciles as typically low skulled with a pronounced curved occiput. Anyway thanks, this is rather subjective as there is no consensus regarding a universal classification system.

In my opinion (using the criteria I mentioned before) they are all more Classic-Meds than Atlanto-Meds.

[PT Tagus]

If you mean that his jaw is more robust/square that the 2nd guy, that is a exactly an Atlanto-Med trait and not Nordid.

Another thing I don't get is why the woman gets Gracile Med and the guys don't, when in the pic they are 3 togheter we can see that her head is not smaller than the guy next to her (and bear in mind she's a woman).

Actually I just classified her as Gracile-Med by the look of the last photo :lol:. In that photo her skull seems mesocephalic.

[Kivan]

Atlanto-Med is more robust, less dolichocephalic and has a longer/broader forehead, as far i'm concerned.

[kleenex]

1 and 2 Atlanto Med types
3 leans Gracile to me

[nightrider+]

If you mean that his jaw is more robust/square that the 2nd guy, that is a exactly an Atlanto-Med trait and not Nordid.

Another thing I don't get is why the woman gets Gracile Med and the guys don't, when in the pic they are 3 togheter we can see that her head is not smaller than the guy next to her (and bear in mind she's a woman).

At least Coon was streamlining things and not trying too hard to fit every mix into a supposedly stabilized sub-race, a practice that gave birth to crap like sub-nordid and Atlantid. Anyway, the second guy here has more of a tendency to mesocephaly and a wider bizygomatic - more compact face. If you posted him without the question, most here would classify him as Atlantid though, just because he's more good looking, lel.

[Zroota]

First two are atlanto-meds.

The woman looks more alpine-med than gracile-med to me though.

[Seth MacFarlane]

I think all three are atlanto med but one is north atlantid - atlanto med . 2 and 3 are very extreme textbook atlanto meds . It’s hard to find a textbook gracile med . But when/if I find a example that may fit the type I’ll post it lol

[cyberlorian]

Carloto Cotta: Atlanto Mediterranid + Paleo Atlantid.
Filipe Vargas: Atlanto Mediterranid.
Anabela Moreira: Gracile Mediterranid.

[Joso]

If you mean that his jaw is more robust/square that the 2nd guy, that is a exactly an Atlanto-Med trait and not Nordid.

Another thing I don't get is why the woman gets Gracile Med and the guys don't, when in the pic they are 3 togheter we can see that her head is not smaller than the guy next to her (and bear in mind she's a woman).

Not really, nordids are more robust than atlanto-meds, when atlanto-meds are somewhat robust, it tend to be because of mix.
The first guy also seens too light( the pigmemtation of his hair, of his eyes and of his lips all combined give a nordid vibe), his jaw and nose also may indicate nordid influence.
And she gets gracile-med because her facial traits are gracile, maybe she is gracile-med+atlanto-med

[nightrider+]

Not really, nordids are more robust than atlanto-meds

Wrong.

[Joso]

Wrong.

Why?

[nightrider+]

Why?

Because there's no significant difference between the two in head size.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/Plate%2023.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/Plate%2027.jpg

[Sebastianus Rex]

I think all three are atlanto med but one is north atlantid - atlanto med . 2 and 3 are very extreme textbook atlanto meds . It’s hard to find a textbook gracile med . But when/if I find a example that may fit the type I’ll post it lol

Thanks for the input, two things I have to comment:
1. North Atlantids must have light eyes (typically blue) + dark hair and very pale or pinkish skin, they look like dar haired nordids.
2. I believe that most people just classify someone as Gracile-Med when it is almost a textbook example, but infact the Gracile-Med population is rather large.


Not really, nordids are more robust than atlanto-meds, when atlanto-meds are somewhat robust, it tend to be because of mix.
The first guy also seens too light( the pigmemtation of his hair, of his eyes and of his lips all combined give a nordid vibe), his jaw and nose also may indicate nordid influence.
And she gets gracile-med because her facial traits are gracile, maybe she is gracile-med+atlanto-med

No, Atlanto-Meds have typically a stronger CM component than Nordids.


Why?


Because there's no significant difference between the two in head size.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/Plate%2023.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/Plate%2027.jpg

Exactly, their skulls are very similar.

[The Blade]

I'll start my comment from the woman:
- Decidedly not a Gracile Med. Almost as tall as guy in the middle and rather large-headed. Her head doesn't even look smaller than those of the males discussed. No measurements provided but I believe difference would be very small if cranium analysis of all of them is done.
Furthermore, no infantile features in her. On the contrary, what we have here is a pronounced browridge (especially visible in profile view), well-expressed gonial angles and bizygomatic breadth which not only excludes her from Gracile Med category but also shows that, apart from the Atlanto-Mediterranean strain, there is a CM one, too:
https://assets.mubi.com/images/cast_member/169922/image-original.jpg?1424763856

Filipe Vargas:
Textbook Atlanto-Mediterranean, in my opinion (without any CM influence). One can see he is long-faced (as is the case with Atlanto-Meds) and has decent proportions. Gracile Mediterranids are, on the other hand, not actually long- but often simply narrow-faced. They have small dimensions (both skull and height) and extremely prominent back of head. Joseph Goebbels matched all of these criteria, including short height (165 cm.):
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8378/9757088_1.jpg?v=8CD0D14099B07D0
Just look at how short he was even in comparison to a man of average height like Adolf Hitler:
http://i.imgur.com/TvTVrLU.jpg
http://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/images/highres_30003895.jpg
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/images/Goebbels,%20Hitler%20and%20Leni%20Reifenstahl.jpg
And he had large protruding eyes:
https://cdn.britannica.com/s:300x300/41/11441-004-0264FC9E.jpg
https://media2.nekropole.info/2014/05/Joseph-Goebbels.jpg

Now moving to Carloto Cotta:
- I don't understand the Atlantid rates he gets as there is no visible Nordic admixture in him (might be people getting impressions from some rating every brown-haired/light-skinned guy that ain't round-faced as Atlantid). However, that's not the case. He, while not textbook, is the most (and actually only, imo) classic Mediterranid influenced person here. Eyes are particularly Gracile Med in shape and nose is rather short but very narrow, as typical. On the other hand, Cotta has a browridge and his chin and bizygomatic are not of Gracile Mediterranid type. His back of head isn't that prominent, too. I see Atlanto-Med and Alpine influences, apart from the Gracile Mediterranean element:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTFlNjE4MjktMjZmOS00MWM4LWIzNGEtZDIzNjhmNDJhNW JjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjU2ODM5MDE@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,14 93,1000_AL_.jpg

[TrevorXdX]

1. Pred. Gracile-Med with Atlanto-Med + smaller CM, I can't see Alpinid in him, for me he jaw is too angular to be Alpinid, I think it can only be CM's influence.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTbZb2I9CFtJUMPsPTi7h2wUgLAAIBA tX-Vw&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoEjNtbACiG7gcPfXsv9iWMZTymyvas FY1kQ&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRg6T3ajviKbdrY8YNvTdcU6ZQTHXqsK cW0LA&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5lA65DhPuknsfyuBCgBYjMgKnYBPnX z28kw&usqp=CAU


2. Atlanto-Med, he is tall, is 1.80 and seems to have a longer face and appears to be a hypsicranic, only the eyes which appears to be larger.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPAf1_j4aNpYDFzkKBH-TM2AJBaGVAD7j4_Q&usqp=CAU
http://revistacomer.weebly.com/uploads/1/6/9/9/16990728/4125551.jpg?378
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRREfXiIiNLAj90hWMsLCijAJLzLYd-7gPvIA&usqp=CAU


3. Looks more Gracile-Med with Atlanto-Med influence, forehead looks lower than standard and eyes more almond shaped, which is a more Gracile-Med trait than Atlanto-Med, but nose looks more elongated and the skull appears to be hypsicranic.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBlEHYdLiWmiZbSHhFsOtT7gWpG3wUB goK6A&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKDDnWbTsIMVVjjT0AaKkevPXbTzxSy tLe2A&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRf7AJs3f2Zpj8EOTv9Au9nj3-Ur65Pkt5tzg&usqp=CAU