Christianity and Racialism

[Psychonaut]

I'm very interested to hear from some of our residents who also are Christians. I'd like to know how you rationalize your belief in Christianity, which seems to have pretty heavy Hebrew influence, with your beliefs in racial and/or ethnic preservation. I've never really had the pleasure to pick the brains of someone who concurrently held these two beliefs in a highbrow forum and I'd very much like to hear what you guys have to say.

[Æmeric]

It's the contemporary liberal theology that encourages the univeral brotherhood equality chrisitanity. Those churches are going out of business. The old fashion Calvinism actually encouraged segregation ( and rationalized slavery) by focusing on the Old Testament. The OT is full of non-miscegenationist messages, for example commanding the Israelites not to marry the daughters of the Canaanites (I'm too tired at the moment to start looking up quotes). The conservative Christian Churches are actually very monoracial in makeup of their congregations. As for being a Semetic religion - the Jews rejected Jesus & the New Convenant, you can hardly call Christianity a Semetic faith. It has been a European faith even if it evolved from the Hebrew faith. But how much of the Hebrew faith was influenced by the Sumerians & Egyptians? And how much was the Heathanism of Europe was influenced by ancient migrations out of the Fertile Crescent into Europe? The Anglo-Saxon goddess Eoster (from which we get Easter in the English language - the rest of the world uses "Passover" or the local version of that word) which seems related to the Sumerian goddess Asarte. There has been plenty of cross pollination of cultures & faiths over the milleniums, that between Christianity & Hebrewism (the forerunner of Tahmudic Judaism) is more obvious.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I'd like to know how you rationalize your belief in Christianity, which seems to have pretty heavy Hebrew influence, with your beliefs in racial and/or ethnic preservation.

The Hebrews have lived for thousands of years in close proximity and conflict with other racial/ethnic group, so any religion written by them should have a high degree of racial/ethnic preservationism built into it. Americ offered a very good explanation, the only point I would add/argue is that the preservationist element of Christianity came in due to the Hebrew basis, not in spite of it.

[Silverfern]

The Hebrews have lived for thousands of years in close proximity and conflict with other racial/ethnic group, so any religion written by them should have a high degree of racial/ethnic preservationism built into it. Americ offered a very good explanation, the only point I would add/argue is that the preservationist element of Christianity came in due to the Hebrew basis, not in spite of it.
It was due to separatism which many in this day and age have forgotten.

Put no other god before him...

No worshiping false idols.

[Vargtand]

It was due to separatism which many in this day and age have forgotten.

Put no other god before him...

No worshiping false idols.

And yee too shall be a slave to the desert god?

[Silverfern]

And yee too shall be a slave to the desert god?

Not slave but a child to their father.

[Vargtand]

Not slave but a child to their father.
No father of mine, and if we do not have the same father how can we then be kin, as a folk that is.

[Silverfern]

No father of mine, and if we do not have the same father how can we then be kin, as a folk that is.
Well not everyone knows who their father is, some just have test tube 4789234.

I never had that problem, I know exactly who is my kin.

[Vargtand]

Well not everyone knows who their father is, some just have test tube 4789234.

I never had that problem, I know exactly who is my kin.

Not Scandinavians then as our father is Allfader, your father has simply been our stepdad for a few years..

[Silverfern]

Not Scandinavians then as our father is Allfader, your father has simply been our stepdad for a few years..

Well some people will believe in anything ...what ever floats their boat.

God openly said he was not the only one up there.

As in he said, worship no other God before me.

God gave humans free will for a reason, its up the individual to choose the path they wish to follow.

[SwordoftheVistula]

It was due to separatism which many in this day and age have forgotten.

Put no other god before him...

No worshiping false idols.


And yee too shall be a slave to the desert god?

Religions tend to have two parts, the "LISTEN TO ME!" part and the "HERE IS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY!" part.

What you are discussing I believe falls into the "LISTEN TO ME!" part, and isn't worth arguing over as different types of marketing appeal to different types of people.

The meat of a religion is in the "HERE IS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY!" part. In this, I think what is now known as the biblical/hebrew or w/e outline provides a good road map to racial/ethnic preservationalism. This may be because the situation of jews 2-3 thousand years ago closely mirrors our own, that of a group which views itself as distinct in the midst of a vast number of other groups at an intercontinental crossroads (globalism/multiculturalism)

[Baron Samedi]

Anyone who truly considers themselves a European preservationist, in any way, shape, or form, and bows down to the god of the Semite deserves to have their head examined.

My opinion.

[SwordoftheVistula]

'gods' don't actually exist, so it doesn't really matter if the 'god' is a singing purple dinosaur, what matters is what you use this vehicle to tell them. Karl Marx was right about one thing, religion is the opiate of the masses, this seems to be a general fact of human nature, so the 'flavor' of the opiate would only matter in that it appeals to the widest audience possible

[Baron Samedi]

'gods' don't actually exist, so it doesn't really matter if the 'god' is a singing purple dinosaur, what matters is what you use this vehicle to tell them. Karl Marx was right about one thing, religion is the opiate of the masses, this seems to be a general fact of human nature, so the 'flavor' of the opiate would only matter in that it appeals to the widest audience possible

Religion and faith are two totally different things.

Religions were meant to be sold, almost like real-estate.

Faith is something no one can buy, but has to find on their own.

[Vargtand]

Well some people will believe in anything ...what ever floats their boat.

God openly said he was not the only one up there.

As in he said, worship no other God before me.

God gave humans free will for a reason, its up the individual to choose the path they wish to follow.

All father Odin draw history with humans since 40 000 years back, you worship a Jewish good that is merely 6 000 years old or what? I for one listen more to my grandfather’s generation that I listen to my fathers generation but I guess that is subjective.

[Psychonaut]

It's the contemporary liberal theology that encourages the univeral brotherhood equality chrisitanity. Those churches are going out of business. The old fashion Calvinism actually encouraged segregation ( and rationalized slavery) by focusing on the Old Testament. The OT is full of non-miscegenationist messages, for example commanding the Israelites not to marry the daughters of the Canaanites (I'm too tired at the moment to start looking up quotes). The conservative Christian Churches are actually very monoracial in makeup of their congregations.

Yes, I've definitely seen this in practice. That fellow I supported for president last year was the leader of a mono-racial congregation in a city that's nearly 40% black. I've no doubt that Christianity can be of great practical use for racialists, especially since it was adopted so early and was the banner we fought under when ridding ourselves of the Muslims the last time around. I'm more interested in examining the heart of the issue, where there seems to me to be a disconnect.


As for being a Semetic religion - the Jews rejected Jesus & the New Convenant, you can hardly call Christianity a Semetic faith. It has been a European faith even if it evolved from the Hebrew faith. But how much of the Hebrew faith was influenced by the Sumerians & Egyptians?

No doubt there are extra-Semitic influences in Christianity, especially those derived from Greek Neoplatonism, however my big question is this:

Jesus was a Jew (if y'all dispute this I'd love to hear how and why). How do you reconcile worshiping a God who manifested himself as a Jewish carpenter and still hold ethnocentric beliefs? I have theological complaints about monotheism in general, but I'm specifically not interested in a monotheism vs. polytheism debate right now. I'm much more interested in examining the Jewishness of Jesus, the idea of the Jews as God's chosen people (as per Deuteronomy 7:6), and the fact that a full half of the Bible is written in Hebrew.


And how much was the Heathanism of Europe was influenced by ancient migrations out of the Fertile Crescent into Europe? The Anglo-Saxon goddess Eoster (from which we get Easter in the English language - the rest of the world uses "Passover" or the local version of that word) which seems related to the Sumerian goddess Asarte. There has been plenty of cross pollination of cultures & faiths over the milleniums, that between Christianity & Hebrewism (the forerunner of Tahmudic Judaism) is more obvious.

We're pretty sure that Eostre and Astarte don't derive from the same root, but lets focus on Christianity in this thread. Heathens have a whole portal for that kind of talk. :)


The Hebrews have lived for thousands of years in close proximity and conflict with other racial/ethnic group, so any religion written by them should have a high degree of racial/ethnic preservationism built into it. Americ offered a very good explanation, the only point I would add/argue is that the preservationist element of Christianity came in due to the Hebrew basis, not in spite of it.

I can certainly understand learning from them when it comes to ethnic preservation, Dr. MacDonald has explicated on that quite a bit, right?

[Lady L]

I really wanted to say something in this thread, but I wasn't sure what...
Ya'll know me by now, its Mrs. L and she might just say anything!!! :rolleyes::) I'm not sure I have any answers for this/these questions but I do have more questions...:confused: So far, for a long long while, I have pretty much sat back and evaluated all these things and have took them into a bit of consideration...pretty much saying I have never really been that curious about religion so it has kept me uninformed if you know what I mean...

And, at the same time I have always had a need for something to be spiritual with...in all honesty the things I have found that I can be spiritual with are more along the lines of the earth, the sky, nature, a pretty day, a rainy day, flowers, plants, trees, life, our home- in the way these things make me feel...it makes me feel I am connecting to something...more than a story of Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins, more than Church on Sunday morning, and even a story about Thor....but, before you think you know what I am going to say-

What I would say is this: If I did have the deep desire (as many of you including my husband-that I very much respect) to find something to connect with, it would probably have to be Heathenry. I really have a hard time understanding how one can be involved with the KKK ( no offense ) and being a Christian...? :confused: I also have a really hard time understanding how one could be any kind of preservationist/racialist and being Christian...?

If you can explain that to me in simpler terms that would be swell. :)

Do the Christians here even know the stories of all the Gods...?

Isn't dieing a big enough deal...?? And, are you really going to "put your soul in the hands" of the same person you come here to hate...? Is your heaven going to be full of Jews..? Are those silly questions..? :p ( but wait...they are serious questions )

And, how on earth can a person have a user name suggesting the KKK and in his introduction he talked about Jews the whole time..? ( no offense meant, again these are serious questions )

I'm also surprised this thread hasn't gone any further yet, because it is probably one of the best questions to discuss- maybe its just a touchy subject as well and people were holding back...I don't think it should be held back though....:)

In closing :), I can only state at this point my " faith " is in the things I mentioned earlier ...nature, life, etc...I do not hope for death to be the end and I do hope for some " God " to show himself or anything of that nature to me.

[Loki]

I also have a really hard time understanding how one could be any kind of preservationist/racialist and being Christian...?

If you can explain that to me in simpler terms that would be swell. :)


I used to be a devout Christian so I can try to explain. :)

I think the idea of racial preservation runs deeper than religion -- it is a more primal and evolved attribute. Hence, it is with us regardless of religion.

Therefore, people who feel this primal calling in their souls with regards to preservation, attempt to reconcile it with their religious beliefs. Using Biblical texts out of context, the Christian religion can easily be portrayed as a pro-racial preservationist religion -- but only if you mostly rely on Old Testament verses and contexts -- which are really about Israelite/Jewish ethnic preservation.

The Christian religion in its purest form is anti-racist, and all-inclusive of all nationalities on earth. It is humanist in that sense. Jesus told his disciples to go into all nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commission) and preach the gospel to all people. Paul's epistles also make clear that God shows no ethnic favouritism, and that it is un-Christian to discriminate on the basis of ethnic origin. Lastly, the Book of Revelations reveals that all nations come together to worship God as one.

So, if Christianity is applied correctly, racism should be shunned as being unscriptural.

[Silverfern]

All father Odin draw history with humans since 40 000 years back, you worship a Jewish good that is merely 6 000 years old or what? I for one listen more to my grandfather’s generation that I listen to my fathers generation but I guess that is subjective.
God is not Jewish :rolleyes:

Jew are just a group of people, who worship money.

God created the earth, he created all life.

He even created you ;)

[Loki]

God created the earth, he created all life.


Through evolution? :)

How old is the earth? :tongue

[Silverfern]

Through evolution? :)

How old is the earth? :tongue

Ask God when you see him :thumb001:

[Loki]

Ask God when you see him :thumb001:

I probably won't ever see him, I'm going to hell. :wink

[Silverfern]

I probably won't ever see him, I'm going to hell. :wink

Well I reckon its pretty crowded down there, you might need to book ahead.

[Freomæg]

I'll book us a table Loki. I've got connections ;).

Before I say anything, I just want to commend Æmeric for making probably the most impressive argument for Christianity in Europe that I've read. The connection between Eoster and Asarte is compelling (not least etymologically) and something I'd not considered before. It goes some way to justifying the presence of semitic tradition in Europe. If, like me, you view the Bible as a book of hidden esoteric codes and knowledge gathered from pre-Abrahamic times, rather than a literal documentation, then it does actually encapsulate 'worldly' knowledge as opposed to anything specific to semites.

That being said, I also believe Christianity was one of the earliest, most significant tools of the (ancient) Globalist Agenda - utilized to great extent by the Romans in an effort to unify European tribes, destroy barriers and establish a centralised authority. Christianity is undeniably a Globalist religion and as someone who opposes Globalism, I'll continue to mistrust it.

[Psychonaut]

God is not Jewish

Could you please expand on this. If the Biblical God isn't Jewish then:

a). Why does he have a myriad of Hebrew names (i.e. Yahweh, El Shaddai, Elohim, etc.)?
b). Why did his only begotten son appear to the world as a Jewish carpenter?
c). Why are the Jews his favored people?

These questions aren't meant to be rude or facetious in the least. I'm genuinely interested in how you deal with those three points (all of which are based in scripture) in relation to your racialism/racism, particularly your views on the Jews.

[Vargtand]

God is not Jewish :rolleyes:

Jew are just a group of people, who worship money.

God created the earth, he created all life.

He even created you ;)

Complete and utter nonsense if anyone created me it was my own peoples gods, as it is completely absurd that the divine and cosmic power that you believe in would create my people than ignore them for countless of millennia’s only to appear in front of some Jews and then only spend time with "the rest of his children" for the last what is it 1000 years... sorry I don't buy it, I buy that as much as when my mother would come with a new man and say he is your father (while he being a negro..)

[Gwynyvyr]

The whole thing that boggles my mind (and honestly, somedays it doesn't take much:rolleyes: ) is this:

If you are Christian, you worship Yaweh (Jehovah) AND his half-human son Jesus.
I got that much right, correct?
Well, Jesus was Jewish. No ifs, ands or buts.
He was Jewish by race, by ethnicity and by family line. That is made very clear by all the *begats* in the Bible pointing to the predicted prophesy that *from the line of David* a savior would be born.

No argument there?

So...if you are racialist and a Christian, you worship a Jew.
If you are a Christian and go by the New Testament, it tells you to "love your neighbor as you love yourself". Also lots of ideas about "brotherhood" and "not judging".
Almost every Christian church I have ever been in preaches *equality*.

Therefore, to my way of thinking...warped though it may be...either you aren't a very good Christian or you really aren't racialist.
You can't be both if you you truly believe one or the other.

At least...looking at it logically it seems that way to me.

[SwordoftheVistula]

If you are Christian, you worship Yaweh (Jehovah) AND his half-human son Jesus.
I got that much right, correct?

Some of them, the Baptists or the Catholics, I forget which, maybe both. Mainline Protestants do not worship Jesus or his mom, or anyone else besides 'God'. The Catholics believe that Jesus is 'God' in avatar form, the Protestants view Jesus as the 'son of God' and a seperate individual.

As to the bible being Jewish, many people who are not Chinese read and follow Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War'. Obviously, if you take a faith-based approach to religion, you need some sort of bridge to qualify your own group as the 'chosen people' the bible speaks of, thus you have 'Christian Identity' which claims that the original 12 tribes of Israel are dispersed into Europe, and those who call themselves 'jews' today are an asiatic tribe from the Crimean region called the Khazars. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s this was taught to me in Sunday School at my 'mainline Protestant' church, 'Denmark' being the 'tribe of Dan' and so on, from what I understand this type of teaching has been removed to a large extent now from most churches. This teaching has a problem in that it is contradicted by archeological and genetic evidence, but all religions have some sort of conflict with science.

[Æmeric]

Could you please expand on this. If the Biblical God isn't Jewish then:

a). Why does he have a myriad of Hebrew names (i.e. Yahweh, El Shaddai, Elohim, etc.)?
b). Why did his only begotten son appear to the world as a Jewish carpenter?
c). Why are the Jews his favored people?

These questions aren't meant to be rude or facetious in the least. I'm genuinely interested in how you deal with those three points (all of which are based in scripture) in relation to your racialism/racism, particularly your views on the Jews.


Why do you think the Biblical God is Jewish? Just because the writings of him come via the Hebrews? And there were no Jews in the Old Testament. That sort of thinking is applying our late second millenium ethnic lables on an ancient people. They were Hebrews or Israelites. Jews were a small distinct part of the Israelites who adopted Tahmudic Judaism. Most descendents of Jews living at the time of Chrsit are probably Christians or Muslims. And its likely that a significant proportion of the ancestors of the Ashkenazim living at the time of Christ were not Jewish.

Many Jews of Christ's era practiced a Hellenic form of Judiasm. A great number of persons in the Hellenic world were Jews at the time of Christ, around 8 million most living outside of Palestine in Greece, the Balkans, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia & Egypt. It's likely many, if not most, were descendents of converts. And they may have provided the bulk of the earliest converts to Christianity.

As for calling these people & their God Semitic: Haplogroup J appears in Europe, in Germany, England, Denmark, etc... among the indigenous population. Are we to call them Semetic because they share some genetic heritage thousands of years ago with the modern people call Jews? And what is now the Jewish ethnic group has a high prorportion of R1a, does that make them European instead of Semetic?

The Biblical Hebrews for the most part bear no resemblance to the urban professional Jews of the contemporay era. The Hebrews were a pastoral agricultural people living in a wilderness worshipping one god (most of the time, at least officially). Was their tribal/clan system so really different from what existed on the border of Scotland & england or what developed in America, (especially the South) or in South Africa. The Calvinism that is so much based on the Old Testament was/is a very natural belief system for the pioneers of America & South Africa (less so in Australia which was alawys a much more urban society). And one that evolved, through Christianity & the Reformation, to serve well the groups of Germanic & Germanic Celts that dpread the living are of Europeans in the New Lands. Would we have been so successful if those Calvinist pioneers had a belief system based on many gods that could easily be exchanged with the gods of the natives, (instead of a unique "desert deity") or if they had no belief system at all?

[Psychonaut]

Why do you think the Biblical God is Jewish? Just because the writings of him come via the Hebrews? And there were no Jews in the Old Testament.

I'm sorry Æmeric. I was quite sloppy with my words. I'll try not to let it happen again, especially since I'd expect the same from a Christian critique of Heathenry.

My assertion that the Biblical God is Hebrew (there we go, terminology fixed) stems from this line of thinking: He does have quite a few names that are true names, as opposed to titles, and all of these non-titular names are in Hebrew. The Hebrews seem to be his chosen people, based on this:


For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

If God isn't Hebrew, why does he bestow Hebrew names upon the first man and woman? Why is his son a Jew (he was born in Judea)?

[SwordoftheVistula]

Is Mickey Mouse 'Germanic' due to being created by Walt Disney?

Much of Hebrew religion was adopted from Sumerian/Babylonian and/or Egyptian sources, and possibly Hindu as well, which many people believe were controlled in ancient times by nordic people.

I think the Japanese have the smartest solution of all, they have adopted a universalist religion (Buddhism) while simultaneously retaining their old tribal religion (Shinto). Even many Africans have been able to figure this one out, simultaneously carrying Christian, Muslim, and indigenous Heathen totems. Voodoo/Hoodoo in the western hemisphere falls along this line, combining Christian and Heathen aspects.

While on the general subject, what thoughts do people have about 'Creativity'? I'm not sure I would classify this as an actual religion, but if it is, it is by far the best/only religion to properly serve individuals of European ancestry. I don't actually follow this group and have never been a member, just an outside/objective opinion regarding comparative religions.

[Lyfing]

Here lately I’ve been thinking about the psychic unity of mankind. Especially with some of the threads around here in my thoughts. Is there a connection between race and spirituality..?? There seems to be fine lines drawn to the point of not seeing even the crossings thereof.

I have had a notion for quite some time now that there is a connection between race and spirituality. That the very same thing that makes a chicken run from a wooden hawk, makes us be spooked at a rubber snake in the shower. It’s our instict, and it is way deep off in us.

Now let’s say time goes on and the predator keeps after us. It’s going to kill us. And, all we want to do is live. That is maybe the strongest instinct. Maybe not though, that is the will to life, there is also the will to power. The hero will die in his journey for the Things he feels in his heart are the way it’s supposed to be. That is the creativity that comes about with this will to power notion. These are both just different sides of the same coin though. The coin of instinct inherited by imprinting in us very sick animals.

Just the other day I saw a Zebra’s will to power over-power a Lion..on the TV. One was hungry..was it really his will to power..the other was looking to live..was that will to power..where is the line drawn then..??..could life itself be will to power..just like “ save the carrots, let the rabbits wear glasses..life feeds on life”..??

I call us that because it is us who can feel it coming in the air tonight. Not to focus on death to much though. It does seem to be the ultimate thing we prepare for in one way or another. And death is a perfect example of the same thing as the snake bringing it about when looked at as if even a rubber snake spooks us to that point. The snake is all in the mythology. Just remember the story of Adam and Eve..or Nidhogg knawing at the roots of Yggdrasil.

Just like these images ( of the snake..rubber/or imagined or not ) illicit responses in us because of instinct we create mythological stories out of them reflecting the feelings and ideas they themselves impart upon us, by the very nature they present to us as we associate with them. Mythology is this way. It is our instict..is it inherited by imprinting is what I was getting at. I reckon but,..

There are two ways of thinking about it. They both lead to the same thing though. Just like the double-sided coin. If it is inherited then the snake will always spook us, if it is imprinted with the story of it bringing death then it will always spook us. That is the Magic of Myth. There are those that entice these instincts and there are those that by their enticing we shape and mold instincts as we associate with them. That is what I think mythology does...mythology is the environment within which we thrive and accordingly our instincts are adjusted to live in it.

So, here, I am brought back to whether there is a connection between race and religion..?? Is there a psychic unity of mankind..??..can this psychic unity of mankind be taken to another level where it is seen as an explanation and embodiment of the different types of Man..?? Evolution being renamed as Rejuvenation..??

Besides that, on another note, and to go further..

I bring up the Hero’s Journey. Now there is this monomyth, and every step in it can be found in the stories of everywhere and everybody. Then there is the drinking horn. What if it’s a snake..?? What if in it is the apple cider that Eve cooked up..?? What have we then..?? Maybe the blood and body of Christ..that Odin, Vili ,and Ve made the world out of..?? That we as trees turned up and then put clothes on, like new wine in new wine skins..??

These things will always speak to our inner parts. I think that is why Christianity is still around. It’s the same ole’ elementary ideas as it’s always been, it’s just they have taken on a new look to them. And, one of the things that has come about with this Christianity is this notion of love. It is uniquely European, and only with us does it come about to fruition with the individuals concerned. We marry whoever we want by the meeting of our eyes. Not by what society says. The dragon “thou shalt” is dead. Individuality is the European thing. That is why Jung went on about individuation , Joseph Campbell proposed a notion of “follow your bliss”, and Nietzsche was beyond good and evil. It is up to us with what we feel is in our hearts to fruit. That is what is in us..that is our big time archetype. To waken in our hearts amor..that is why there is Christianity and that is why the Wyrd sisters are putting us through it..I find there are many lessons to be learned with our experiences..how we are to be continually shaped as we go on..our Wyrd is great..Christianity is just part of it..it’s days are over but it’s lessons will be with us forever..

Later,
-Lyfing

[SwordoftheVistula]

I think you are generally correct, in that a certain society will have certain behavioral tendencies, and these behavior tendencies will be institutionalized via religion and other means. If behavioral tendencies are linked to genetics as many of us suspect, then different genetic groups (races/ethnicities) will have different behavioral tendencies and therefore mythologize different behaviors through their code of ethics.


the psychic unity of mankind

There isn't any. For recorded history, mankind has been so far advanced beyond other species that our primary competitors and predators have been other groups of humans.

If there is any psychic control going on, it is by cats and their control of humans, and there's probably not much we can do about it.


Is there a connection between race and spirituality..??...I have had a notion for quite some time now that there is a connection between race and spirituality. That the very same thing that makes a chicken run from a wooden hawk, makes us be spooked at a rubber snake in the shower. It’s our instict, and it is way deep off in us.

Yes, that is what makes our religions tell us that snakes are 'evil'.

Religion is a more conscious continuation of evolutionary directives. A strict evolutionary directive would be that everyone who does not fear snakes gets bit by a snake and dies, and the only people who survive to pass on their genes are those with some sort of innate genetic snake-phobia.

Religion allows a shortcut to this process, if the 'elites' of society become aware that "hey, I've been kinda noticing, when people get bit by snakes, they tend to die" then they will incorporate into the religion something along the lines of "he who comes into proximity with snakes will be eternally damned." This is an easy way of telling people "hey numbnuts, stay the fuck away from snakes!"

A theoretical discourse:

"Pardon me sir, but you should perhaps take notice to avoid snakes, particuarly those which exhibit these particular characteristics which we have studied"

"What the fuck? I'm not scared of no snakes!"

"But the Academic Institute has put out a study, noting that those who come in contact with snakes are highly likely to suffer paralysis and other symptoms leading to death"

"Yeah? Well fuck you and your big words and shit! I'll touch snakes if I want to!"


"You should not touch snakes. God himself has told me this. He came to me in a vision last night, and told me that those who come in proximity with snakes shall be judged unclean and damned eternally to hell"

"Oh. Shit. That sounds bad. I guess I had better stay the hell away from snakes then."


And thus, the elite individual is able to induce the common person of his tribe to avoid getting bitten by poisonous snakes, and therefore increase the reproductive potential of himself as well as his tribe/ethnicity/race.

And this is how we should judge religions: do they get people to stay away from snakes? (and other threats)

[Æmeric]

I'm sorry Æmeric. I was quite sloppy with my words. I'll try not to let it happen again, especially since I'd expect the same from a Christian critique of Heathenry.I'm not offended, just pointing out some misconceptions even by Chrisitians.


My assertion that the Biblical God is Hebrew (there we go, terminology fixed) stems from this line of thinking: He does have quite a few names that are true names, as opposed to titles, and all of these non-titular names are in Hebrew. The Hebrews seem to be his chosen people, based on this:The Old Testament came to us by way of the Hebrews, so it is natural that God would seem to be viewed from a Hebraic-centrist view. Though those Hebrew names/titles could (and I'm certain some of them do) have roots in other tongues.

Something to remember about the Hebrews is that they came out of the cradle of civilization - Mesopotamia - and spent time in & were influenced by Egyptian culture. These areas were the pinnacles of civilization 3 to 4 thousands years ago and it is were most of the world's population was living at the time, from Egypt to Sumeria & the Indus & Ganges Valleys of the subcontinent. Perhaps the Hebrews lot as the chosen people had more to do with opportunity, timing & location then anything having to do with blood. If you were God & wanted a chosen people, who in the longterm would spread a faith dedicated to you, the Hebrews who came came out of Sumeria & spent time in Egypt were the best candidates & you settle them at the crossroads of the ancient world. And it would seem to have worked because the 3 Abrahamic faiths dominate the Western world. The other major faiths, Bhuddism & Hinduism, came out of the subcontinent. The fact that the Abrahamic faiths are monotheist is also important. Polytheist faiths can easily absorb other gods of other cultures they come into contact with. What's another god or 2 if you already have 10 or 20 or an infinite number of them?




If God isn't Hebrew, why does he bestow Hebrew names upon the first man and woman?
Did God bestow Hebrew names on the first man & woman? We know them by their Hebrew names because we are most familiar with them via the New Testament. Were Adam & Eve always Hebrew names? Take the name Leroy. Most people in the US would say Leroy is a Negro name. Why? Because Negroes are about the only people who use it. But Leroy itself comes from the French "le roi", meaning "the king". And French is a Romance language. If I was an archeologist or anthropologist in the year 7009 A.D, I might make the assumption that Leroy had African origins. Maybe Adam & Eve were names that were Hebraicized. In the same way that the Hebrew name Y'shua or Yeho'shua is anglicized as Joshua but also comes to us as Jesus via Greek (Iesu) & Latin (Iesus). But Joshua though being of Hebraic origin is more of an English name. The ancient Hebrews never used the name Joshua, it hadn't evolved during their era & contemporary Jews didn't use it until they settled among English speaking gentiles. And I can tell you that in America it is hardly thought of as a Jewish name. It seems more popular among White Christian families then among Jews. Thomas is a fine old English name that is actually Hebraic - or Aramaic - in origin. How many Jews use the name Thomas? So in the way we Anglo-Saxons have taken Hebraic names, transformed them & made them our own, the names that the Hebrews used for the first man & woman and the God of Abraham could have been borrowed & Hebraicized by the Hebrews.



Why is his son a Jew (he was born in Judea)?
You're God & you send you only son to Earth to die for the sins of man & create a new convenant with man, where would be the best place to send him for that purpose? Again, Palestine as a Jew roughly 2,000 years ago. Northwestern Europe was a cultural backwater. If the Son of God had lived, died & was resurrected in what is now Sweden, who today would have heard of it? Palestine seems to have been the right place - it was a crossroads of the ancient world & part of the Roman Empire, at the time the most important state on the planet. And the Jews - or whatever they called the folowers of the God of Abraham at that time - who practiced a form of that faith that was greatly influenced by Hellenic philosophy - were the ones most receptive to the new faith. It seems to have been a stroke of genius, but what else would you expect from God?:)

[Silverfern]

Could you please expand on this. If the Biblical God isn't Jewish then:

a). Why does he have a myriad of Hebrew names (i.e. Yahweh, El Shaddai, Elohim, etc.)?
b). Why did his only begotten son appear to the world as a Jewish carpenter?
c). Why are the Jews his favored people?

These questions aren't meant to be rude or facetious in the least. I'm genuinely interested in how you deal with those three points (all of which are based in scripture) in relation to your racialism/racism, particularly your views on the Jews.

A) Hebrew is a language is not a religion. Hebrew was spoken by all the 12 tribes of David and many others in the world.

Such as English is spoken today. So of course he will use Hebrew to name people.

B) Jesus had no religion. Therefore not Jewish :rolleyes:
BTW He was the son of man, not the son of god.

C) Where does it state God choose the Jews? God choose the Israelite people which are not Jewish.

[Sol Invictus]

Uh huh

"What advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God."

"Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

"You worship what you do not know; we [Jews] worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews."

"It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles."

"Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also . . . God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith."

"You [Gentiles] were . . . separate from Christ [the Messiah], excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. "

[Psychonaut]

Thanks for responding. I altered by terminology after Æmeric's comments earlier.


A) Hebrew is a language is not a religion. Hebrew was spoken by all the 12 tribes of David and many others in the world.

What do you mean by this. Are you proposing that Hebrew was literally a universal language at some point?


B) Jesus had no religion. Therefore not Jewish :rolleyes:
BTW He was the son of man, not the son of god.

I wasn't speaking of his religion, rather his ethnicity. What ethnic label would you apply to a Hebrew from Judea?


C) Where does it state God choose the Jews? God choose the Israelite people which are not Jewish.

A minor terminological quibble. Why then does God choose the Israelites over the British or the Chinese or the Tongans?

[Silverfern]

Psychonaut

What do you mean by this. Are you proposing that Hebrew was literally a universal language at some point?

Is English universal today? French ? German ? No language is universal just in common use in an area.



I wasn't speaking of his religion, rather his ethnicity. What ethnic label would you apply to a Hebrew from Judea?
Canaanite




A minor terminological quibble. Why then does God choose the Israelites over the British or the Chinese or the Tongans?[/QUOTE]

Why Does God do anything, simply because he can. You make the common mistake you see only 1 or 2 forms of christian belief, currently there are over 128 in the USA alone. Currently I am studying CI, not that I agree with all of it, but some of it does dispel many myths that have been created.

[Psychonaut]

Is English universal today? French ? German ? No language is universal just in common use in an area.

I suppose if you don't think that the names of deities have much to do with their nature then the linguistic origin of a deity wouldn't have much bearing on the ethnic appropriateness of that deity to a given group.


Canaanite

Is the basis for your belief in this scriptural or archaeological? I don't think that the Biblical genealogy of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Jesus) supports a Caananite ethnicity, but I'm interested to hear where you got that idea.


Why Does God do anything, simply because he can. You make the common mistake you see only 1 or 2 forms of christian belief, currently there are over 128 in the USA alone. Currently I am studying CI, not that I agree with all of it, but some of it does dispel many myths that have been created.

So...God picked the Israelites as his chosen folk on a whim? Just because? If that's the case, does it bother you that he favors the Israelites over your folk?

[Rudy]

There is some evidence that Jesus was a Galatian Celtic. The paintings I have seen of Jesus were correct after all. Some say Galilee derives from Galatian.

(Jesus) his hair of a color that can hardly be matched, falling into graceful curls, waving about and very agreeable crouching upon his shoulders, parted on the crown of the head, running as a stream to the front after fashion of the Nazarites. His forehead high, large and imposing; his cheeks without spot or wrinkle, beautiful with a lovely red; his nose and mouth formed with exquisite symmetry; his beard, and of a color suitable to his hair, reaching below his chin and parted in the middle like a fork; his eyes bright blue, clear and serene.

In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of the Nazarites. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick.
http://www.luisprada.com/Protected/how_jesus_looked_like.htm

Galatian Celtics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia


So...God picked the Israelites as his chosen folk on a whim? Just because? If that's the case, does it bother you that he favors the Israelites over your folk?
I've always had problems with a universal God having a special tribe. Jesus started out as a Jew, but then later on preached to the Gentiles. This made the Jews angry. It is similar that Martin Luther started out as a Catholic, but then ended up something else.

Favorite Bible verse

I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." (Revelation 2:8-9 KJV)
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2004/20040708.htm

[Black Turlogh]

I can't help but feel the race/ethnicity of Christ, from a spiritual standpoint, is irrelevant. But assuming it is relevant, what is it you're trying to suggest, here? That because Christ was a Jew, and Europeans accept Christ, they thereby except Jews?

The idea of the Jews as the chosen people who should be awarded with special treatment has never really sunk in amongst Catholics. This is evidence through the innumerable instances over the course of Catholic history of the overt rejection of Jews as well as the critique of Jewish customs as being dissimilar and corrosive to those of Catholics. Whether this is the case or not for Protestants, I have no interest in discussing. Such discussions, when an Irishman is involved, often have a tendency to sink to pissing matches. ;)

I'm no racialist, unless, and again, we are under the classical usage of the term "race". I'm an Irishman with a firm understanding of my identity, of which Catholicism is an integral part.

[Murphy]

I can reconcile my Christian faith with my ethnocentric outlook very simply. For two millenia my people have been Christian. My people have evolved, culturally and socially, under a brief period of Christianity, more than they ever had done for all their existance prior.

My father is a Catholic, my grandfather was a Catholic, my great-gandfather was a Catholic and so forth. My community is Catholic. My community was shaped by their Catholicism.

How can someone say that by abandoning the faith of my fathers, the faith of my people, the faith of my society, I would be in anyway more ethnocentric than I am currently?


Jesus was a Jew (if y'all dispute this I'd love to hear how and why). How do you reconcile worshiping a God who manifested himself as a Jewish carpenter and still hold ethnocentric beliefs? I have theological complaints about monotheism in general, but I'm specifically not interested in a monotheism vs. polytheism debate right now. I'm much more interested in examining the Jewishness of Jesus, the idea of the Jews as God's chosen people (as per Deuteronomy 7:6), and the fact that a full half of the Bible is written in Hebrew.

The Word of God, when He assumed His fallen human nature, choose to dwell amongst the Israelites. Jesus was a Jew for all intent and purposes, yes. The Jewish people were choosen by God to be a nation of priests

But like Adam fell, so to did the Jewish people. Christ tried to turn them from their errors but they rejected Him and they called for His Precious Blood. He done this deed, He died for their and for our Salvation upon the Holy Cross.

But Christ transcends ethnicity and blood. We're dealing with souls here, not Nordic phenotypes.

And why such aversion to Jewish people 2,000 years ago? Let us also remember, that up until the late 20th century, the majority of the Jewish people were reclusive and poor, they kept to themselves and were hardly very wealthy.

Some people have allowed a small minority of Jews, who have indeed worked against our society, to cloud their judgement. But even these Jews are different from the Jews all those centuries ago.

[Bloodeagle]

Some people have allowed a small minority of Jews, who have indeed worked against our society, to cloud their judgement. But even these Jews are different from the Jews all those centuries ago.

I disagree with your last statement!
How are the Jewish priests different now than from back in the time of Jesus?

Matthew - Chapter 27

1 When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people met in council to bring about the death of Jesus. 2 They had him bound and led him away to hand him over to Pilate, the governor. 3 When he found that Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) had been condemned, then Judas, his betrayer, was filled with remorse and took the thirty silver pieces back to the chief priests and elders 4 saying, 'I have sinned. I have betrayed innocent blood.' They replied, 'What is that to us? That is your concern.' 5 And flinging down the silver pieces in the sanctuary (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=10430) he made off, and went and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the silver pieces and said, 'It is against the Law (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6916) to put this into the treasury; it is blood-money.' 7 So they discussed the matter (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7732) and with it bought the potter's field as a graveyard for foreigners, 8 and this is why the field is still called the Field of Blood. 9 The word spoken through the prophet (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=9674) Jeremiah (http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=30) was then fulfilled: And they took the thirty silver pieces, the sum at which the precious One was priced by the children (http://www.catholic.org/shopping/?category=28) of Israel, 10 and they gave them for the potter's field, just as the Lord (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5217) directed me. 11 Jesus, then, was brought before the governor, and the governor put to him this question, 'Are you the king of the Jews?' Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) replied, 'It is you who say it.' 12 But when he was accused by the chief priests and the elders he refused to answer at all. 13 Pilate then said to him, 'Do you not hear how many charges they have made against you?' 14 But to the governor's amazement, he offered not a word in answer to any of the charges. 15 At festival time (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=11571) it was the governor's practice to release a prisoner for the people, anyone they chose. 16 Now there was then a notorious prisoner whose name was Barabbas. 17 So when the crowd gathered, Pilate said to them, 'Which do you want me to release for you: Barabbas, or Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) who is called Christ?' 18 For Pilate knew it was out of jealousy (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6281) that they had handed him over. 19 Now as he was seated in the chair of judgement, his wife sent him a message, 'Have nothing to do with that upright man; I have been extremely upset today by a dream that I had about him.' 20 The chief priests and the elders, however, had persuaded the crowd to demand the release of Barabbas and the execution of Jesus. 21 So when the governor spoke and asked them, 'Which of the two do you want me to release for you?' they said, 'Barabbas.' 22 Pilate said to them, 'But in that case, what am I to do with Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) who is called Christ?' They all said, 'Let him be crucified!' 23 He asked, 'But what harm has he done?' But they shouted all the louder, 'Let him be crucified!' 24 Then Pilate saw that he was making no impression, that in fact a riot was imminent. So he took some water, washed his hands in front of the crowd and said, 'I am innocent of this man's blood. It is your concern.' 25 And the people, every one of them, shouted back, 'Let his blood be on us and on our children!' 26 Then he released Barabbas for them. After having Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) scourged he handed him over to be crucified. 27 Then the governor's soldiers took Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) with them into the Praetorium and collected the whole cohort round him. 28 And they stripped him and put a scarlet cloak round him, 29 and having twisted some thorns into a crown they put this on his head and placed a reed in his right (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=10046) hand. To make fun of him they knelt to him saying, 'Hail, king of the Jews!' 30 And they spat on him and took the reed and struck him on the head with it. 31 And when they had finished making fun of him, they took off the cloak and dressed him in his own clothes and led him away to crucifixion. 32 On their way out, they came across a man (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7463) from Cyrene, called Simon, and enlisted him to carry his cross. 33 When they had reached a place called Golgotha, that is, the place of the skull, 34 they gave him wine to drink mixed with gall, which he tasted but refused to drink. 35 When they had finished crucifying him they shared out his clothing (http://www.catholic.org/shopping/?category=5) by casting lots, 36 and then sat down and stayed there keeping guard over him. 37 Above his head was placed the charge against him; it read: 'This is Jesus, the King of the Jews.' 38 Then two bandits were crucified with him, one on the right (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=10046) and one on the left. 39 The passers-by jeered at him; they shook their heads 40 and said, 'So you would destroy the Temple (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=11357) and in three days rebuild it! Then save yourself if you are God's son and come down from the cross!' 41 The chief priests with the scribes (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=10622) and elders mocked him in the same way, 42 with the words, 'He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the king of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=12332) believe in him. 43 He has put his trust in God; now let God (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5217) rescue him if he wants him. For he did say, "I am God's son." ' 44 Even the bandits who were crucified with him taunted him in the same way. 45 From the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour, Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) cried out in a loud voice, 'Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' 47 When some of those who stood there heard this, they said, 'The man (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7463) is calling on Elijah,' 48 and one of them quickly ran to get a sponge which he filled with vinegar and, putting it on a reed, gave it him to drink. 49 But the rest of them said, 'Wait! And see if Elijah (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=4228) will (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=12332) come to save him.' 50 But Jesus, again crying out in a loud voice, yielded up his spirit. 51 And suddenly, the veil of the Sanctuary (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=10430) was torn in two from top to bottom, the earth quaked, the rocks were split, 52 the tombs opened and the bodies of many holy people rose from the dead, 53 and these, after his resurrection, came out of the tombs, entered the holy city and appeared to a number of people. 54 The centurion, together with the others guarding Jesus, had seen the earthquake and all that was taking place, and they were terrified and said, 'In truth (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=11728) this man (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7463) was son of God.' 55 And many women were there, watching from a distance, the same women who had followed Jesus (http://www.catholic.org/clife/jesus) from Galilee (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=4947) and looked after him. 56 Among them were Mary (http://www.catholic.org/bookstore/?category=19) of Magdala, Mary (http://www.catholic.org/bookstore/?category=19) the mother of James (http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=66) and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee's sons. 57 When it was evening, there came a rich man (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7463) of Arimathaea, called Joseph, who had himself become a disciple (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3895) of Jesus. 58 This man (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7463) went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be handed over. 59 So Joseph (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6477) took the body, wrapped it in a clean shroud 60 and put it in his own new tomb (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=11611) which he had hewn out of the rock. He then rolled a large stone across the entrance of the tomb (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=11611) and went away. 61 Now Mary (http://www.catholic.org/bookstore/?category=19) of Magdala (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7381) and the other Mary (http://www.catholic.org/bookstore/?category=19) were there, sitting opposite the sepulchre. 62 Next day, that is, when Preparation Day was over, the chief priests and the Pharisees (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=9282) went in a body to Pilate 63 and said to him, 'Your Excellency, we recall that this impostor said, while he was still alive, "After three days I shall rise again." 64 Therefore give the order to have the sepulchre kept secure until the third day, for fear his disciples come and steal him away and tell the people, "He has risen from the dead." This last piece of fraud (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=4851) would be worse than what went before.' 65 Pilate said to them, 'You may have your guard; go and make all as secure as you know how.' 66 So they went and made the sepulchre secure, putting seals on the stone and mounting a guard.
Source (http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=47&bible_chapter=27)

[Murphy]

How are the Jewish priests different now than from back in the time of Jesus?

There is 2,000 years difference for a start.

Do not get me wrong.. the core of their collective mentality that sets them a part from Christian Europeans is unchanged.. but as a people, 2,000 years sort of has an effect.